Food Trucks with Roy Choi

Summary

Flightless Bird – "Food Trucks" with Roy Choi

Podcast: Flightless Bird
Host: David Farrier (A), with Rob (C) and guest Roy Choi (B)
Date: March 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the fascinating world of American food trucks, seen through Kiwi host David Farrier's outsider perspective on US culture. With trademark humor and curiosity, David and cohost Rob explore what food trucks mean to Americans, why they're less common elsewhere, and what makes the US scene—especially in LA—so vibrant. The episode’s highlight is an in-depth interview with Roy Choi, the Korean American chef and icon who revolutionized food trucks with his Kogi BBQ concept. Along the way, the hosts share personal anecdotes and food truck adventures, culminating in a reflection on food, culture, accessibility, and community.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Food Trucks in American vs. Kiwi Context

• David’s Curiosity: Begins with David musing on food trucks’ place in America vs. New Zealand. He notes that while NZ has some, they’re "less ingrained in our culture than they are in the United States." (03:00)
• Rob’s Experience: Food trucks are often late-night experiences, especially for ethnic foods, notably Mexican—something rarely found in NZ. (06:00)
• Growth & Accessibility: Food trucks now approach $3 billion in annual US revenue, becoming not just common but expected in urban culture. (02:20)

2. The Unique American Food Truck Culture

• Cultural and Urban Factors: The sprawling, car-centric structure of cities like LA makes mobile food more logical, meeting workers and partygoers wherever they are. (43:00)
• Evolution of Food Trucks: Once seen as "roach coaches" with a stigma, food trucks’ image flipped to "gourmet" after Roy Choi’s Kogi BBQ popularized high-quality, innovative street food. (59:29)
• Integration into Community: Food trucks are credited with bringing together diverse social groups, fostering community through accessible and affordable eating. (62:24)

3. Food Scandal and Aesthetic Extremes

• NOMA Pop-Up Scandal: Brief detour into the expensive ($1,500) NOMA pop-up in LA and its downfall over both pricing and toxic work culture, reflecting on how public perception turns on food’s cultural context. (12:32)
• Food Trucks and Class: Contrasts are drawn between high-end experiences and food trucks’ affordability, both shaping and reflecting local culture. (84:05)

4. Personal Food Truck Stories

• Field Trip to Leo’s Taco Truck: David and Rob recount their late-night experience at a legendary LA truck, describing al pastor tacos, vibrant street life, and the mingling of diverse city residents. (18:24–25:43)

5. Roy Choi: From Kitchen Life to Food Truck Icon

• Origin Story: Roy describes a childhood immersed in food thanks to his restaurant-owner parents, likening the industry to a "pirate ship" for misfits. (28:54–31:01)
• The Birth of Kogi: Spurred by the 2008 financial crisis and unemployment, Roy responded to a friend’s challenge—"let’s put Korean BBQ in a taco"—and Kogi was born. The timing with smartphone adoption and Twitter serendipitously made Kogi an overnight phenomenon. (38:57–39:26, 48:07–52:11)
• Changing Perceptions and Language: Roy emphasizes how Kogi’s success reframed food trucks from “roach coaches” to "gourmet" symbols. The impact was "cities around the country changing" their approach to street vendors within a year. (59:29–61:14)
• Cultural Impact: Beyond food, Kogi "created a bridge of culture for people to love each other a little. A little bit more in a way that they didn’t know they could." (62:24)
• On Inclusion and Racism: Roy discusses the anti-immigrant, racist stigma food truck owners historically faced, and how innovation (and delicious food) broke those barriers. (56:07–57:49)

6. The Mechanics & Soul of Food Trucking

• Life in the Truck: Like "being in a submarine"—cramped, chaotic, but creative. Constraints force culinary inventiveness. "If you just have one small amp and a guitar, you figure that shit out." (66:08–68:51)
• Legalities and Street Knowledge: LA’s rules are relatively loose, but politics, permitting, and "street knowledge" (negotiating with bouncers, building managers) remain crucial. (69:34–74:50)
• Current Food Truck Landscape (2026): "Taco, Marisco, and birria trucks" tied to traditional communities remain strong, but "fusion" and "office worker" trucks still struggle to recover post-COVID. (75:01–77:47)
• Principle of Accessibility: Kogi’s pricing has barely changed in 18 years. Tacos still $3—a cornerstone for "entry point" eating in a tough economy. (64:18)

7. Food, Ceremony, and Efficiency

• Why Food Trucks Appeal: David and Roy both praise the efficiency and directness: "delicious food quickly," without the drawn-out ceremony of sit-down restaurants. (80:55–82:44)
• Comparison to Korea: Roy explains how, in Korea, even brick-and-mortar places often employ this walk-in, shout-your-order, and eat-fast system, much closer to food truck culture. (81:27–82:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Food as Family and Survival (Roy Choi, 28:54):

  "If my parents were artists, but instead of being artists, they were cooks and they were food people... Even on days off, all we did was food."

• On what makes food trucks so LA (Roy Choi, 43:00):

  "We’re a rolling culture. We drive hundreds of miles a day on a normal day... We come to you, you know, the food comes to you."

• On Food Trucks’ Stigma (Roy, 56:07):

  "As a minority in this country... we have to sometimes Swallow [prejudice]... Food trucks, they were being called roach coaches... labeled filthy, disgusting, an eyesore."

• On the Shift to Gourmet (Roy, 59:29):

  "Kogi all of a sudden took that word roach coach, turned it into gourmet... It can change the whole trajectory of everything."

• On the Early Twitter Era (Roy, 48:11):

  “Kogi started with Twitter... At the time Twitter started, we started in a perfect storm of Twitter, the iPhone and the economy crashing.”

• On Constraints and Creativity (Roy, 67:27):

  "The limitations are the power of a food truck. If you don’t have those bells and whistles, create a whole fucking different type of food..."

• On the Community Effect (Roy, 62:24):

  "It created a bridge of culture for people to love each other a bit more in a way they didn’t know they could... a sanctuary... for everyone."

• On Cultural Efficiency (Roy, 81:27):

  "In Korea, restaurants... as you walk in, but it’s ordering like a military sergeant... The food hits your table, and you get the fuck out of there."

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Food Trucks in NZ vs US: 02:00–07:00
• Personal Experiences & Field Trip: 18:24–25:43
• Roy Choi’s Early Life and Food Origin Story: 28:54–33:08
• Creation of Kogi BBQ: 38:57–39:26, 48:07–52:11
• Twitter & Kogi’s Breakout: 48:07–52:23
• Addressing Food Truck Racism and Stigma: 56:07–61:14
• Impact on Cities and Perceptions: 59:29–61:14
• Food Truck Mechanics/Challenges: 66:08–68:51
• LA Food Truck Laws and Realities: 69:34–74:50
• Current Food Truck Trends (2026): 75:01–77:47
• Thoughts on Food Experience/Cultural Efficiency: 80:55–82:44

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Additional Memorable Moments

• Taco Truck Field Recording: "Are you ready to wait an hour for tacos?" (18:24)
• Food as a Form of Survival and Joy: "It was never stressful, man. It was like Led Zeppelin, man... the best." (54:09)
• Roy’s Pop Culture Impact: Consulted for the "Chef" film, which spread Kogi’s story internationally. (61:14–61:23)

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Conclusion

Flightless Bird’s "Food Trucks" episode is both an affectionate portrait of American street food culture and an insightful conversation about food’s power to shape community and culture. Roy Choi emerges as not only a culinary innovator but also a social connector, vividly describing how food, racism, creativity, and entrepreneurship intersect on four wheels. The episode is a tribute to the "magic in the universe" (50:49) that makes something as humble as a taco truck a catalyst for joy and change.

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For listeners:
If you have your own food truck stories, recommendations, or wild late-night taco tales, David and Rob want to hear from you at [e-mail]!

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(End of summary)

Transcript

[A]

Hi, man. Hi, Hayden. My little truffle nugget. That's not even a. That's not even a thing. That's not a thing that exists in the world. That's how I think of you, Hayden. What. What is a truffle nugget? What is a truffle nugget in your weird little brain? Hayden, when you strip off head to toe, naked in front of the mirror and look at yourself, that is a truffle nugget. Okay, well, I. You know what? I'm not sure that I do that very often, but maybe I should, because I haven't encountered a truffle nugget, and I need some insight. Yeah, man. Get naked, get in front of that mirror, take it all in. You've only got that one bod, one life.

[B]

You know what? I will.

[A]

I'm gonna get naked and get in front of the mirror and see what a truffle nugget looks like. Now, look, I'm gonna be honest. I'm going a bit loopy over here. We're in some kind of a winter heat wave, which is weird. But the episode we're doing today is about food trucks, which are a big deal in the United States of America. Some areas more than others. But I'm wondering, in New Zealand, when I say food. Food truck, what do you think? What's your vibe when you say food truck? I think of a food truck. It's a truck with food coming out of it. You go up to the food truck, and they will serve a particular type of food. You buy that food, and the food comes out. I don't know what you think this country is, man. We have food trucks like. Like the first one of these was, like, basements. And I was. We don't really have basements, but we have got vehicles that food comes out of them. There's one across the road right now. It's a ramen truck. It's very delicious. It's called miso ra. I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, as Haddon just said, yes, New Zealand does have food trucks. We have a lot of food trucks. Although I'd hazard a guess they're less ingrained in our culture than they are in the United States. Recent figures here have food trucks approaching $3 billion in annual revenue, with steady growth expected in the coming years. People love a food truck. It's delicious and accessible and brings a community together. And generally, cities are becoming more friendly towards them because it's an expected part of the culture. But while they have lower startup costs than a full blown restaurant, that doesn't mean it's a walk in the park. But what the hell do I know? Later on in today's episode, we're going to be joined by food truck icon and and all around nice and thoughtful guy, Roy Choi, the Korean American chef who created a food truck selling tacos like you've never had them before. His story is a fascinating one we recorded with him last week and I'm very excited to bring you that interview today. So prepare to have that hungry belly quelled by the wonderful treats of your local food truck because this is the food trucks episode. Flightless Flightless bird.

[C]

Touchdown in America I'm a flightless bird.

[B]

Touchdown in America.

[A]

Hi, Robert.

[C]

Hello, David.

[A]

Do you ever strip naked in front of the mirror and just stare at your nude body?

[C]

Do not.

[A]

Food for thought. Some quick admin at the top. Not at all. No puns. I do. Unlike you where every pun is intended.

[C]

Food truck for thought.

[A]

Jesus Christ. I'm never making a pun on purpose. Always accidental. Yeah, just quickly, some admin in the top. If you are a Patreon member, we're going on tour very soon. We're doing Salt Lake City, we're doing Austin, we're doing Dallas. If you're a Patreon member, we're going to be doing some little meetups in each city. We'll be posting the details a couple of days before the tour date. So join us patreon.com Flightless Bird There's a lot of fun stuff going on over there. We do bonus weekly episodes, there's bonus posts, there's ad free episodes, all that stuff. Feet pics.

[C]

Sometimes when you feel like it, nude feet.

[A]

Nude feet optional. You don't have to look at them.

[C]

Yeah, you can skip over those.

[A]

Although everyone that's seen my feet 4.98 on wikifeet.com has. I've never had a complaint. They've always enjoyed the experience.

[C]

I mean, something brought that down from a five, right?

[A]

You son of a bitch.

[C]

Someone brought that down.

[A]

Yeah, I think I know who. I think I know.

[C]

Me and Hayden.

[A]

It's really good. Food trucks.

[C]

Food trucks.

[A]

I think you and I, we both like eating, but we like eating in different ways. I feel like I go more scummy. You have more of an acquire, like a bit more acquired taste buds. I like a McDonald's cheeseburger.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

You like a nice oyster?

[C]

Yeah, that's fair to say. Both of those statements are true.

[A]

Where do food trucks, as an American, where do food trucks sit in your kind of cultural lexicon? Like, what do they mean to you?

[C]

I mean, I like food trucks a lot. I don't eat them a lot. It's normally like a late night thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I think most of the time I end up at food trucks. Last time I ate one was when I was in New York and I was in the park and there's a bunch of food trucks around.

[A]

It's like, it's. They're just there, I feel like.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

They're in front of you.

[C]

But they weren't always like that. Growing up in Chicago when I did, I don't remember food trucks being much of a thing. And I remember the first time I went to Portland eating at food trucks and being like, this is incredible.

[A]

This is. What is this?

[C]

Yes, this should be this. It was normally like ethnic food. It's not. You're not getting a McDonald's food truck. Yeah, yeah. I would say Mexican food is my main go to for food trucks.

[A]

Yeah. Which for me has been such an experience here because New Zealand has a lot of food. Like, we're not food adverse, but we don't. And correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't do a lot of good Mexican food. So being in Los Angeles, I feel one of the luckiest things about being here is. Holy shit. It's good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's everywhere. And when you go to a food truck, it's quick and it's delicious and it's like affordable a lot of the time as well.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, food trucks were definitely like a drunken food too. The one.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I used to partake in that.

[A]

I feel like I. In. In America, I did a lot of them with you when we. We go to concerts and stuff.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is like the late night food thing as well.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like you're driving back from some venue somewhere and they're scattered all around the city and so. Oh, there's one. Or you might go to a certain location where you know it's good because obviously there are good food trucks and there are not great food trucks. It's like a fucking variety out there and it's almost the joy of it seems to be able to find the one that you like and that is good and is near you.

[C]

Well. And I think at some point it hit the like, zeitgeist is kind of a hip thing because, like Portland was the first time I remember it. And Portland is always a cool city.

[A]

Yeah. Portlandia.

[C]

But then I do remember, like, the next big run in with food trucks was Austin at South by Southwest. They've got. Got a lot of really great food trucks.

[A]

Right. So they bring them out down there, which is a festival that's gotten bigger and bigger and more sort of up

[C]

its own, like, in. To the point where you're, like, in search of the food trucks. And it's like, on Tuesdays, they park in this bar and in the back.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[C]

And then they eventually did make their way to Chicago. I think the, like, bureaucracy around them. I recall, like, people being annoyed.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Hard to. Yeah. There's a lot of just, like, red tape.

[A]

We talk with Roy Troy a bit about this, about, like, how cities become accepting of them or not, because, like. Yeah. I mean, they're also an interesting thing because they're not building. They're like. They're on the street. They've got wheels. It's like they're taking up some sort of space that could be parking or sidewalk. And I feel like America is obsessed with those spaces as well. And in certain cities, like, I feel like. Yeah. Parking wardens and cops and everything. There's that whole culture of it as well.

[C]

And then I remember in 2010, there was a show called the Great Food Truck Race.

[A]

It was a show.

[C]

Food Network reality show. A reality show.

[A]

I don't know if you know this about me.

[C]

It's a cooking competition show, though. So it's, like, kind of real. I mean, it's based in reality.

[A]

Yeah. So, wait, so what happened in the show? What was the premise?

[C]

Different. Like, little restaurants. They would help them build a food truck, and they would go around. They'd, like, race across the country and have challenges. Oh, my God.

[A]

So it's like. It's part building, part food, part race.

[C]

They would, like, build a little business, essentially, with this food truck, and then the winner got to, like, keep it in a bunch of money.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

But I looked it up before we started recording this, and they've been 18 seasons of that at this point.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Which I remember. Yeah. I watched, like, the first season of it.

[A]

There's a lot that's like the dream when you make a TV show. It's like the dream to come up with a format that is just never ending.

[C]

Yeah. That's just gonna keep making and making and making seasons. Yeah.

[A]

Have you had any sort of chaotic food truck experiences? Have you ever had, like, a bad experience, sort of food poisoning or you're being attacked because you're sort of out in the. You're out in the wild at a food truck.

[C]

No, I don't.

[A]

I think people are drunk out to a concert.

[C]

All of my food truck experiences are great. Like LA at this point too. Like, you go to events.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Food trucks are there. Like, if it's some sort of outdoor event or thing. I've been to, like, birthday party where we've had the Kogi truck that the person rented to be outside of the party to go get food.

[A]

I feel like you would do a good food truck. Like, I feel you have, like, you love food, you're good with design. I feel like you could run at some point if the podcasting game falls over, if people finally are like, fuck, there's too many podcasts. Like, I'm. I'm over it. Which weirds me out that that hasn't happened already.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I think you could do a really good food truck. I get Calvin. I get Calvin in there flipping some things.

[C]

I mean, we just did the breakfast at the preschool and we're making breakfast tacos.

[A]

Let's see. This.

[B]

This is.

[A]

This is prep. This is great.

[C]

The other dad and I got very competitive about it where like, we. We got a bad state like in the corner away from things, and we're sharing the grill top with someone that took it very seriously. But then that made us get more into it. It turned out good, though. I mean, we made amazing. Yeah.

[A]

Did you. Did you make a new dad friend in the process?

[C]

He was already a friend. That's why we teamed up.

[A]

Oh, that's.

[C]

The food industry is tough. Is very tough. Which I have a ton of respect for. I mean, food trucks, people that own food truck businesses.

[A]

Totally. I just raised restaurants. You could, like, magically just do it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Fucking hard.

[C]

It's very hard. And I don't think it's got a huge success rate.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Like, I know plenty of chefs that have restaurants, and I don't think it's easy.

[A]

Yeah. It's not like they're all like, man, I wish we could go into the chilled out world of the food truck. Yeah. I think it's a funny thing where

[C]

as a chilled out world of restaurants

[A]

at all, like, it's that thing, isn't it, where as someone that goes and eats, it's. You're having the most chill that experience you could have. Like you're sat down your butt. Someone is bringing you food. Sitting outside a food truck. Delicious. Other side of it, like chaos.

[C]

Yeah. Like, I Think I think I could help like figure out a cool restaurant and place to be in. But the ins and outs and the days and the day to day of that and like just like even I think a really killer restaurant struggles completely a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

It's a wild thing was. This is maybe a tangent we don't need to put in, but am I right in thinking there was a headline about some food truck? There's been a scandal recently. There was like a food truck and it was like fifteen hundred dollar meals or something.

[C]

No, they're like Hubert Keller had a fifteen hundred dollar burger. It was the most expensive burger.

[A]

Sorry, not a food truck. I'm talking pop up. So in international.

[C]

Oh, Noma. You're talking about Noma.

[A]

I'm talking about Noma, Yes. So this is news. So I'm not a food guy.

[C]

Okay. So Noma is like a really incredible restaurant in Denmark. Okay. That is like known to be one of the best restaurants in the world.

[A]

Okay. We like them. They do good food.

[C]

I don't know, I haven't been there.

[A]

But they, they.

[C]

I haven't been there.

[A]

They're known for good stuff.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

They've come to America, they've come to la.

[C]

They're doing a pop up in Silver Lake for like three months.

[A]

Okay. Which is sort of in our neighborhood.

[C]

Their whole half over. Right.

[A]

American dream. We're going to la.

[C]

I had known some people that know them and like they're losing. They were losing money to be here, but. Okay, were they put up. It's like fifteen hundred dollars per person. Just reading it now for three months. And it sold out like instantly. Like I went, I. The. When they went on sale, I went to look at it and within a minute and a half the, like three months fully booked, gone. Yeah. But then it came out that the head chef Renee, like videos resurfaced of how toxic of an environment.

[A]

All right. Being horrific to employees.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[C]

And I don't know like enough of the details about it other than that. But he stepped down. Like they had a bunch of sponsors pull out. Like MasterCard was sponsoring the dinners here. They pulled out.

[A]

If MasterCard is sponsoring you, you know that you're like doing a good thing when they leave.

[C]

Yeah. And then it hit the, the like climax of it is he stepped down as the chef after the like first day that it opened here.

[A]

That is sort of like the perfect chaotic food scandal. Like, like sounds like it's awful what he did, but that is like Coming to LA was a bad move for them. Apparently he's wishing he never, never decided to come to la.

[C]

Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I mean, maybe the standards are just as. I, I wonder what cancel cult like in Denmark, like if somehow totally LA being part of it. I don't, I've, I've read a bunch of the like statements from NOMA too. Before he even resigned. It was just like we, yeah, we knew that this was an issue. We've like since put things in place and improved and no longer this way.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It still was a little bit of like PR crisis response. It seemed like.

[A]

Yeah, right. I also think when you do like when your headline is like 1500 tickets, no matter how good the food is, a lot of the public, it's instantly kind of against you. You're kind of like, there's an attitude. Come on.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, there's a point.

[C]

I don't think it was a cheap meal in Denmark either. I don't think they came here and were.

[A]

And threw it up and we're like,

[C]

let's gouge Americans in la.

[A]

Oh my God. Fifteen hundred dollars. It's insane.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know what the aftermath.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Of it's been either. I don't know. Like even the statement when he left was just like, he's stepping down. I don't know who's taking over.

[A]

It's all a big murky mess.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure the answers are out there.

[A]

And it wasn't a food truck. I just got confused. It was a pop up.

[C]

Well, the other thing is like that took over social media like crazy. Like it was. I follow another chef who. He was, he was, he's doing a panel at south by Southwest this week about it and he was just like, is anyone else? Is their algorithm just like completely getting swallowed by the NOMA scandal? Because, like not getting any Epstein stuff, not getting any of these other things, it's just all noma.

[A]

It's like, Trump didn't need to go to war with Iran to like cover up Epstein files. Noma. NOMA just needed, just NOMA was happening.

[C]

Because my algorithm, my algorithm, the last like two weeks been all Noma and Survivor 50.

[A]

What's amazing about that is my algorithm has been neither of those things.

[C]

Not yet. I mean, your phone's out, right?

[A]

Oh God, it's coming, it's coming.

[C]

I'm going to start forwarding you.

[A]

It's so true. We didn't go to a fifteen hundred dollar outing. No we took it for this episode. So we're going to get into the Roy Choi chat soon. But Rob and I very briefly went to Elios Taco. We decided we've been there before after some shows. It's frigging delicious. So we called him Leah.

[C]

Well, we didn't want to get yelled at by people for not visiting a food truck on this episode.

[A]

It would be like Waffle Gate House. Yeah, Waffle Gate. Waffle House Gate.

[C]

Waffle House.

[A]

Waffle House Gate.

[C]

It'd be like doing an episode on Waffle House and not going to Waffle House.

[A]

Who would do that?

[C]

No one.

[A]

That is a psychotic thing to do

[C]

or a Lord of the Rings episode. Without watching Lord of the Rings.

[A]

How could you? Like, I'd turn that podcast off instantly. I'd never listen or respect that host again.

[C]

Yeah. But there's a really good taco food truck that's always super busy. No matter. Like, that's.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

If I know I need something late and I think everything is going to be closed, I know that place is going to be open. I will also say I often witness people smoking meth near.

[A]

It's. It's a certainly intense part of town. Yeah, there's always stuff going on. It's very American. Opposite is a giant target kind of glowing at you. There's a lot. There's always a lot of antics going on in that particular area.

[C]

Was I with you that last time where there was just someone smoking crack on the bus?

[A]

Didn't see the Crack on the bus episode. That's a lot.

[C]

Yeah. Like totally not trying to hide it. Just like crack pipe out sitting on the bus.

[A]

It says modern life in the center of la. I mean, what's this near? Is it sort of Hollywood? Is that where the area is? Yes, our Hollywood area. Leo's Taco. Highly recommended. This is great taco. This was our outing.

[C]

Are you ready to wait an hour for tacos?

[A]

It is. What's the time? It's like 10pm on a Monday night.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Big old mine. Where are we and what is this place?

[D]

You are right now in East Hollywood on Sunset and Western. And this guy's been here and they are here until like, I think four in the morning or something. And people come in from the clubbing. All the nightclubs are over there. So when they come this direction, everybody stands in line all the way down there until they get there. And they're known for the al pastor, which is the pork right in behind you. Yes. That's what's really good.

[A]

You come Here a lot?

[D]

No, not really. But I used to when I used to drink. I don't drink anymore. So you don't find me here at 2 in the morning anymore. You got to find a different place for me. No, no, no. My party there's a long over. But the. But the taco stands still here, so that's good. The Spanish people brought this, you know, this is, this is how it's done shawarma, right? This is how it's done in Middle east, that style, right? They brought it with them to here and it became. But they kept the tradition because the shawarma used to have real charcoal. You see, it's heated with charcoal where now the shawarma is all gas oven. You know what I mean? See, they put charcoal in there. You see that?

[A]

It's delicious.

[D]

Tradition from like hundreds of years ago. And it's the best. And then the way he cuts that pineapple and throws it on it is the best. You see that's a pineapple up there.

[A]

I'm a big fan of a bit of pineapple on meat. So I'm into this.

[D]

Oh, you're going to enjoy that. Yeah. Order the alpaca. You're going to be thankful.

[A]

And I'm going to get an al pastor if I could. 2. Thank you so much. Look, Rob, I'm very happy with this. Meaty, delicious. I don't usually eat this late at night, but I'll make an exception. Are you happy? Yeah.

[C]

These are really good tacos. Did not skimp on the toppings either. That was a lot.

[A]

You are eating a lot over there, my friend. I'm going to save the listeners from my chewing and I'm going to turn off this recorder. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Shopify. When you start a new business, it can be super overwhelming. Every day there seems to be a new decision that needs an answer. When you're starting off with something entirely new, it seems like your to do list can keep growing every day with new tasks. And that list can easily begin to overrun your entire life. My point being, finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything can be such a game changer. And for millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify.

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that's shopify.combird support for flightless bird comes from pesty. Now, recently I've had a bit of a DIY project in my apartment. I have no air conditioning in my building. And look, it's a simple DIY project, but it's been really good. I've got mobile air conditioning units in. I've had to like fit them in the window, seal windows off, install these air conditioning un. I'm now feeling cool and refresh and I feel really satisfied in what I've done.

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Well. And the other DIY thing you've been successful with is pest control. You've had those cockroaches and those flies and yeah, all that stuff and sounds

[A]

so hard, but kind of is like I've got the air conditioning out and the cockroaches, they come up from the ground and they come into my apartment.

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We live in L. A. The climate here is pretty good for bugs.

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[A]

That was delicious. I love that food.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Ate very quickly, inhaled it. Also forgot to say the number of toppings at the food truck. Just everything you want. Delicious.

[C]

I mean, that one is the real deal.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That they have like a salsa bar. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It's very lit up. They had like a storage truck next to the truck that they had like extra supplies and people in like a break room. Essentially.

[A]

It's in a. It's in a parking lot and it's lit, but there's like little tables and you just end up sitting next to a whole bunch of random people that are out for a variety of reasons. Like they're there there for like a million reasons and you're there and it's delicious.

[C]

Yeah, it's very.

[A]

Kids, adults, very la. One thing I like about la, and it's that it's like everyone is out late. Like old people, kids. Like everybody is just out and about. It's really great.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

New Zealand tends to go to bed. Everyone's in bed. And make a sweeping generalization. Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

By about 9pm Everyone like, everyone.

[C]

So you don't have like, bars that are open?

[A]

No bars out past nine? No, there are bars.

[C]

But like, what's your, like closing time at a bar, though?

[A]

Look, I feel it's. Oh, God. I feel it used to be two.

[C]

Yeah. 2:00am like normal.

[A]

Generally. A lot of restaurants and stores will Shut a lot earlier than they do here. And so generally, people.

[C]

What time on the spot?

[A]

Look, everything in New Zealand shuts at about 5:00pm I think after 5:00pm, nothing.

[C]

Well, let's say there's, like, parts of, like, even in Chicago, there are parts that, like, you're downtown, the restaurants and stuff are not open. Parts of downtown. They're not open super late. Or like, the suburbs. There's certain suburb. Suburban areas.

[A]

So that image you have of suburbia, it's the entirety of my country. In New Zealand, five o', clock, shut. Go home, watch tv, watch some rugby.

[C]

More than, like, office areas of cities, I feel like.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Do that. Because there are. There are definitely parts of downtown Chicago that are open very.

[A]

Stay alive.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

In New Zealand, we don't have that.

[C]

No, no.

[A]

Oh, shock. Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And I won't hear any different.

[B]

No.

[C]

Okay. No. Everyone's in bed early now.

[A]

How the heck did we get Roy Choi on our tiny podcast? Because I love this man.

[C]

Yeah. So Roy is a friend of mine, and I text him and was like, hey, we're gonna do a food truck episode. I feel like there'd be no one better to talk to but him.

[A]

Amazing.

[C]

He started Kogi Food Trucks, which is a huge deal. Yes, we'll get into that. We'll get into that. Tacos Por Vida is his, like, new taco. He's got a really incredible restaurant in Las Vegas called Best Friends that last time I was there, I went to.

[A]

Not related to the animal sanctuary in Utah, which we did an episode on. Very separate.

[C]

It's really cool. You, like, walk in the reception area. Looks like an old supermarket.

[A]

I like this.

[C]

And then you're kind of, like, brought into this giant dining area.

[A]

One thing I do find with chefs and people that love food is they are not contents. Right. But they're not content to just do one. It's like they've got so much. So much of a creative brain. They've got to do this thing and this thing.

[C]

Well, I don't know if that has to do with the business stuff we talked about earlier, too. If, like, oh, they have to actually stay afloat. That's hard to make money, maybe.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Because I know, like, Kogi now has their, like, sauces in supermarkets and.

[A]

Yeah, right, right.

[C]

It's not just, like, let's put more food trucks out there. It's. And sl. Tacos.

[A]

Well, despite having a million things on, he still came and talked to us on a weekend, which I find kind of incredible.

[C]

Yeah. We were very lucky to have him sitting on the couch with us.

[A]

This is Roy Choi.

[B]

My name is Roy Choi, and I cook. I cook for the streets. I cook inside of buildings, but I try to feed the people of Los Angeles and Orange County.

[A]

We're going to be talking about food trucks. That's sort of the entire reason you're here. But I'm sort of wondering how you got into food in the first place.

[B]

It's one of those things where there was never really a beginning or end or a middle. It was just always there, you know, so it's kind of like, you know, if you're born into a skateboarding family or you're born into a rock family, you know, like. Or your parents were artists. It was one of those things. My parents, if you can imagine if my parents were artists, but instead of being artists, they were cooks and they were food people. And what I mean by food people is we ran restaurants, we ran food stores, but also in our off time, all we did was food. So 18, 19, 20 hours a day during work time, it was all food. Running the restaurant, opening the restaurant, cleaning the restaurant, you know, working with purveyors, paying bills, all that. And then the days off, you would imagine we would kind of shut that off. But instead, we would go search for food. Yeah, we would go search for food. Like, we would go to Riverside Barbara. Yeah. Newport Beach. Wait by the piers at 5, 6am for the fishermen to come in, you know, go out to the farms in Brawley and El Centro and, you know, and just search for food. It was just something that always happened on the weekends, like today here at Griffith park and Elysian Park. We would. It would have been so easy if they just bought, like, Kentucky Fried Chicken or Pioneer Chicken or Yoshinoya. But they would cook everything from scratch and bring everything. And of course, it's the kids that have to lug everything. So there was never a beginning or an end.

[C]

That's pretty rare for people that work in the restaurant industry. Right. They just, like, barely cook for themselves.

[B]

Yeah, because a lot of. And it happened to me, too. A lot of restaurant kids are scarred by growing up in a restaurant. So in many cases, you do something as far away from it as possible. And I tried that as well. It just, you know, the lure of it pulled me back.

[A]

Was that a fun childhood, or was it incredibly stressful and intense, or were you kind of loving it the whole time?

[B]

I was kind of loving it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It's, you know, like, when you're around restaurant people, it's the best because anyone who ends up within the circumference of a restaurant or a food thing usually can't make it anywhere else in society. So you end up kind of like on this pirate ship with a bunch of other misfits, and you just relate right away, you know? And I'm talking about, like, dishwashers, prep cooks, waiters, servers, hostesses, you know, from a very young age, you know, like, you're just surrounded by adults, but the adults are kind of like children, too, because they're just. They're just fucking around all day, man. You know, prepping, listening to music, you know, flirting with each other. And so I. I really loved it. And then your. Your parents are working all day, too. So you don't have a normal structure. You're kind of like a latchkey kid, and you're just free to roam, you know, because they're so busy. I had a restaurant over here in Atwater, like my family, and I was like, 9 years old, and I told my parents, like, yo, I'm gonna go get some coffee or I'm gonna go run to the store. They would just be chopping and be

[A]

like, yeah, yeah, go and do whatever you want.

[B]

Do whatever the fuck you want. Just don't bother me.

[A]

Because you probably grow up quite quickly as well, right? That you become kind of an alien

[B]

yourself because, again, you're surrounded by adults, and. And there's no. There's no age requirement in terms of, like, helping out, so. Which I think is great. You know, I'm not talking about child labor. I'm just talking about, like, helping out, jumping in.

[A]

Yeah. If you're like. If you're building houses, like, your kid can't come and start building a house. Whereas with food does that lower.

[B]

If you're an investment banker, you know,

[A]

it's not going to go well.

[B]

Yeah, it's not going to go well. You can't really go to the office, but when you're in a restaurant, the kid can help shuck peas, they can help make dumplings, they can help pound the noodles, you know, they can clean out the Coke machine, you know, so that part's really fun. It makes you extremely agile in a very young. At a very young stage.

[A]

Worst part of it, as you're a kid, like, with the bits of it that you.

[B]

Worst part of it is you're poor. You're literally watching your adult figures in your life struggling, you know, struggling. But you don't comprehend it yet. But you do feel it, you know, because as children, we feel all the pain and we feel all the, you know, the complications and abuse and everything in life, you know, it's just we don't have the vocabulary to put it together.

[A]

And you don't know any different.

[B]

You don't know any different. So when you. When you're exposed to it very early instead of being sheltered to it, sometimes it can be tough, you know, to see. To see adult figures cry, to see them, avoid things like cod, collector's phone calls, collection agencies have lights just go off in the middle of service because the bills aren't paid. Those things are really tough to witness. And not just from your parents, but from everyone around. Because anyone, again, going back to. Who works in a restaurant, anyone working in a restaurant, in a lot of cases are day to day, you know, not even month to month, day to day. So to see the ups and downs of people's, like, disposition and mood and everything, like, it's a trip when you're

[A]

young, you know, it's the interesting thing with that field as well, because, like, you're working your butt off, but you're not doing it to get rich. You're doing it because you kind of love it and you're in it.

[B]

I want to do it. Yeah.

[A]

Or are you? You might be wrong.

[B]

Everyone would love to be rich. But the thing about, in the food business, I don't know if that even is a part of the motivation at all. None of it is, you know, and again, going back to skateboarding, it's like skateboarding, you know, or snowboarding or whatever. You don't pick up the board to be like, I'm gonna be a gold medalist or I'm gonna be a millionaire, you know, if that stuff comes along, you find your own swag, whatever. But. But cookings like that, you know, like, you don't pick it up and, like, try to be rich, so. But the difference is you never get rich.

[A]

So I feel it's, like, very rare not to make this about me, but I feel like in journalism it's the same. Like, you don't get into journalism. You do it because, like, you love it.

[B]

You love it.

[C]

And.

[A]

But you. You're not going to get rich.

[B]

And there's no way that you can stop yourself from doing it.

[A]

No, it's just in there.

[B]

Yeah, it's in there. You got to go find the story you got. You gotta, like, hop on the greyhound and do this and, you know, whatever, and get to the smallest city in the world to write the biggest story. And it's the same thing with food, man.

[A]

Addictive is how addictive?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do you remember the moment we started thinking food trucks? Because obviously, like, you worked in the restaurant game and did very well. And I imagine thinking of a food truck is a very different way of thinking about food. Do you remember when that became a spark or a concept?

[B]

Yeah, it didn't. It didn't become a concept in terms of running it until Kogi happened, which was 2008. But that doesn't mean that that's the moment it entered my life. It had been a part of my life my whole life. I've been exposed to it since I was a child. I was very young when I was left alone, so I was free from about five years old, just wandering the streets because I was traveling throughout a lot of areas. In Koreatown and downtown, I was always exposed to a lot of trucks. As I got older, into high school, all I would eat at is trucks. Like, my hobby was going around finding food. I've started this new series called on the Fly recently, where I'm kind of going back to who I was as a high school kid. Because now with food, everything is so researched. Right. And in the world, too. Like, everything has all these gateways that we pass it through. We watch content, we do research, we narrow it down, we get it to the top 10, you know, and then we look at ratings and then we.

[A]

So curated.

[B]

Everything's curated. Even if it's curated in the right way. Back in high school, nothing was curated. I would just be rolling and then just pull over.

[A]

Yes, there it is. You see it?

[B]

There it is. Whatever it is. There it is. Yes. And trucks were like that for me. So it was always intertwined in my life. I just didn't know that it was a career because. Because when you grow up in the streets and in the neighborhoods, it's usually your aunties or uncles or family members running these trucks. There's a very blurred line between the business and the people you actually know. It's almost like it's all intertwined together, like being in a village. Just because someone sets up shop doesn't mean like they're a stranger. That's a person you grew up with and know. And usually those businesses are set up up out of necessity, and they're not really set up as something like, I'm going to go do this.

[A]

It's like the only option to do their job.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like what you said with journalism. It's like there's no other choice. There's nothing else that you can do except this. You wake up a lot of people who run trucks in a lot of street stands when they start to cooking all the food at home, they can't stop. You know, they're cooking for, like, hundreds of people, and they just keep cooking and cooking, cooking. They bring it out and sell it. So, yeah, I never thought it would be a business, but then I lost everything in 2008. The world was in a very sensitive place, and I couldn't find another job for months. And my friend called me and he was like, yo, let's put Korean barbecue in a taco. I think you'd be the right guy to do it. We went out and got a coffee and we.

[A]

What a great pitch.

[B]

Yeah, it was, like, right there. It just happened. It's like starting a band. It was important for me to be at that place in life because I heard him 1,000%, you know, I could. I had nothing else to, like, weigh it against. It was just like, yo, let's do it. And then literally the next day we went out and shopped. The next day I came up with the prototype recipe, and then the next day we went out. So it was like that.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it probably had to be that way or not at all, right?

[B]

I think so. You know, again, like a band, know, like, I think it. It has to be that way. You kind of sometimes have to start before you know how to do it. And you see a lot of bands start that way, right. They don't know how to really play yet, but they start. They start playing and. And then through that synergy and not overthinking it, it. Things start to appear.

[A]

There's magic in that world.

[B]

There's magic in that world. There's magic in our world, you know, and sometimes we stifle that magic. And that magic sometimes comes from. From the moment and the fission of those things interacting with each other. And it's the same thing with cooking. The emulsion of foods come together, and it's that magic. It's the magic of a sauce and how it lays on a plate and it can only live for, like, two or three seconds before it dies. And that's kind of how the Kogi truck emerged.

[A]

So in New Zealand, we don't have a food truck culture at all. Like, we'll get food trucks at a bougie music festival, you know. But as far as just being on the street, not really a thing. So in a really basic way, what makes food truck culture so special in general? Like, what is it about it? Because in New Zealand. We didn't have the experience of being a kid walking around, being able to just interact with that.

[B]

It's weird that you wouldn't have it because your weather seems very similar to ours.

[A]

So good.

[B]

Yeah, and it's so good.

[A]

And we just have cafes and fish and chip stores, but it's all physical buildings.

[B]

Do you have like street food, like open air shot? I watched that movie Boy from Taika Waititi. Great movie and so good. That's all I know about.

[A]

Oh, that's what you need to see of his.

[B]

But like it seemed like there's like little tiny shops and stuff but just there are food served out of igloos or something.

[A]

There is, there is. We very famously have like sausage sizzles on the street, like barbecue and like meat spin. But it's not just not the idea of here's a truck that rolls up, it parks on the side of the

[B]

street like a commoditized in terms of

[A]

like a business like that culture. We've got like one big food truck in Auckland where I'm from and that's it. So what is it that makes it so special if you haven't grown up with that? Obviously it's like it makes food accessible to people. It's cheaper, it's quick and it's good.

[C]

I think it's pretty LA too because we didn't have that in Chicago. Like I remember going to Portland for the first, first time and being like, oh, there's food trucks everywhere. This is incredible.

[B]

That's exactly what I was going to touch on is it all comes down to culture. I think, I think it comes down to culture. This is how we express our culture. So you have to go back to who really started it. It's the Latino culture. It's the Mexican taco trucks of the 50s and 60s that bled into Venice beach and the hot dog stands of Venice beach and the carts and the fruit carts and the fruiteros and then, and then that leads into the working class neighborhoods of Los Angeles County. And then the construction boom. We had a big construction boom here in the 80s and so all those buildings you see kind of like in downtown and stuff, it's not like they were all built, but a lot of them were built. We didn't have a huge skyline back then, but then they were all being built kind of around the same time. And so that mobilized a whole need for catering trucks because as you've probably experienced here in this city, we're a little bit different than a lot of other cities. We're not like a metro city where you can just walk down and go to the bodega.

[A]

Oh, it's the most spread out, nightmare

[B]

place in the world. Most spread out.

[A]

It's like so many cities in one.

[B]

So many cities in one. Let's say you're working for three months as an iron worker, construction worker at a spot. But your work area may be in a home or in a building that has nothing to eat around you, you know, and you're there and you got like 30 minutes that you can come down and eat and go back up. That's where the truck culture comes into play. Because we are such a mobile city. We come to you, you know, the food comes to you. And so there's that. It's the weather, it's the west coast vibe. You know, we're a rolling. We're a rolling culture. We drive hundreds of miles a day on a normal day. Sometimes people drive two, three hours, four hours a day. And it's just something built into our lifestyle.

[A]

You have to be mobile. You'd have wheels on all the time.

[B]

But I think the food truck itself, you have to give credit and you have to go back to the Latino immigrants that came. It started with taco trucks, for sure.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

It feels like such an immigrant story. Like the grind of it. White people here aren't gonna be getting up early to work. And food trucks, there's a little bit

[B]

of hot rod culture to it. There's a little bit of build your own diy. A lot of those trucks were built themselves. It's like taking old chassis and engines from older delivery trucks and things like that. And then retrofitting. We're still doing that, retrofitting them. It's really cool. And I don't think that could have happened, happened again in any other city than la, because LA has so many. I mean, we got rules and, you know, like any other society, but we also got a lot of, like, I like to, you know, I like to call them, you know, like corners and shadows and. And blind spots. We're such a big city that you could do something like. Like us three could go do something somewhere and no one will know, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's the great thing exists here.

[A]

I've noticed that.

[B]

And that's kind of how food trucks started, you know, and like street food starts is like you just kind of post up, like for us even. Like, even us as the second generation of it. Our first spots were like, in empty parking lots next to railroad tracks, warehouse districts, and like, there are places like Vernon, Huntington Park, Commerce, like warehouse districts, factory districts that were closed during the day, all these places that no one is around. And luckily we had technology social media to pull people in. But even if we didn't have social media, I think we would have been in those spots anyways.

[A]

Well, you know the city so well, so you probably know those places to go. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Helix. Now we're kind of coming up to that springtime spring cleaning season and my suggestion is that you upgrade your home with a Helix mattress. Helix has sponsored this show since it started. I've loved my Helix mattress and if you don't have one, I strongly suggest you get one.

[C]

A good night's rest is really important to set your day up for a good one when you don't get sleep. I find myself being very cranky when I don't sleep.

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Cranky, cranky, cranky.

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So that's why a good mattress is important. You don't need to be tossing and turning on a mattress that's not suited for you.

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You. So a sleep study that Helix ran found that 82% of those involved saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle while sleeping on a Helix mattress. I have found that myself since I've had it. Big fan. I also have an annoying back and Helix has been really good with that as well. It's also the most awarded mattress brand tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes

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[C]

Can you talk about the whole, like, Twitter of it all for Kogi?

[B]

Yeah. Kogi started with Twitter. At the time Twitter started, we started in a perfect storm of Twitter, the iPhone and the economy crashing.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

Yeah, so it was the iPhone just came out, you know, like 1 in 1 in 100 of your friends had one.

[A]

Yeah. And I remember that time almost like

[B]

the TVs of the 50s. Everyone had to gather around the one device. Yeah. To the one device, you know, and watch the Ed Sullivan show, you know, like, that's kind of how it was with the iPhone at that time. And then there was no idea understanding of mobile social media in terms of. We were still heavily entrenched in the MySpace area era, so everything. And chat rooms, you know, so we still had to go home and plug in and like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pull up the chair, dial up.

[A]

Yeah. You had a computer room.

[B]

Yeah, there was a computer room.

[A]

We had this wiggling at a special table. Yeah.

[B]

Yes. And you knew you were committed for an hour, so you had to kind of like, sink in and like.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Everything else had to be taken care of and you were there, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The idea of it just being, like, fluid. Fluid was just being introduced. So Twitter was around for a few months, but people couldn't connect the dots of, why the hell do I need it?

[A]

You have people like, who are we communicating to?

[B]

Are we communicating to Communicating why all that? And then the economy crashed with the real estate crisis, and people were really, really scared. It was a very sensitive time in America. It was this really, like, really barren situation. But then this. I call it like a Cheech and Chong truck. There's this little truck that came through people's peripheral, and then the technology allowed it come through. And then I think the world needed a little bit of a pick me up and a smile. And weirdly, we were the one that were that smile. You know, it could have been something else. Could have been anyone else, but Kogi was the one one, you know, and it. It's weird every time I talk about it Rock, because, like, you know, I. It was like I was there. It was me. I'm a very shy person. I don't like to. I don't like to, like, toot, toot any horns or anything, but, like, you

[A]

don't strike me as a horn too. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's hard to talk about, but but as I get older and older with it, I do realize the significance and importance of it is there are sometimes certain moments where Jimi Hendrix walks into the room.

[C]

It's that magic in the universe.

[B]

There's a magic in the universe, and it just happens to be that person or thing that happens. And for us at that time, it was Kogi, where the world was extremely hurt. People were losing their homes, people were killing themselves. Families were being broken up, and no one knew what the next step was gonna be, you know? And it was very much like the

[A]

early days of COVID Everyone just reeling and not knowing if life will ever come back or not.

[B]

There were no answers. And then this truck, you know, I'm looking at. Is that Tom and Jerry. But it was like a Tom and Jerry feel. Like there was like this little cartoonish thing that kind of came into the world. People were like, what the fuck is that? And then that's where Twitter came into play. It became like a scavenger hunt. People needed a distraction. And then the thing at the end of that rainbow was this taco that tasted like nothing anyone ever tasted before. But it also connected all the dots. And that just within days. It was crazy. Within days, we went from begging people to eat our food. We used to park in the clubs at Ollywood Boulevard and to, like, 2,000 people on the street.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I didn't realize it was that quick when things just happened.

[B]

It happened all within, like, a month. So the month of November to December was hit or miss. And then right around December into January is when everything just started blowing up.

[A]

You guys wouldn't be sleeping.

[B]

That's great. Thanks for picking up on that. We would do back to back shifts. We would. It was one of those situations where, you know, you're so busy, you're prepping as. As people are still ordering, you're just trying to keep up with. With the plate, with the thing. It's like. Yeah. And then you would sleep for a few hours, wake up the next morning, just prep and get back on the streets. Yeah.

[C]

You were probably still figuring out how food trucks worked at that time, too, like, how to best do it. Because it wasn't as much of a phenomenon as it is now. And, yeah, till that moment, yeah, we were figuring out.

[B]

Out where we go and, like, how this whole thing flows and works. Before Kogi started, we, you know, we had trained. I trained on the truck for a little while, one of the catering trucks, a couple taco trucks. So I started to understand the mechanics of it. But we never imagined, like, you know, what was going to happen to happen. Like, you know, like we were just looking to maybe do. Do regular business every night. Sometimes I would hire people in line.

[A]

Yes, help me.

[B]

Seriously. I. I hired a couple. I've hired a couple people in line. You know, literally the line goes. You can see the end of the line.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And we only have like two or three people working.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would just look at someone, they

[A]

go, yeah, come on.

[B]

And then, yeah, come on, come on, come on.

[A]

Yeah, get on the truck.

[B]

And then they go, oh, yes, Che. Yeah.

[A]

They were just wild methodology. Really good.

[B]

And that's kind of how everything was a split second decision. Wait, what was a beautiful time, man? I missed that time so much.

[A]

Well, that probably answers my question. What was the combo of fun versus this is really fucking stressful having 200 people there waiting.

[B]

It was never stressful, man.

[A]

Yeah, cool. Just joyous vibe.

[B]

Well, it was like. Yeah, it was like Led Zeppelin, man. It was just. The first two years was just. It was the best, man. I think about it a lot lately because the world is so complicated right now. And I miss that time, man. I really, really miss that time. That time for myself, but also for the city, also. Just where we were as a civilization, we were still kind of figuring things out. We were transitioning from kind of a semi low tech, kind of analog, digital world into where we are now. The information was still at the bridge of where journalism was still totally, really strong. There were trusted sources where you could. We were all collectively also bound by certain collective ideas in terms of information.

[A]

Yeah. And just how to be polite.

[B]

How to be polite. And. And again, we were still a little bit just dumb, you know, like just figuring out.

[A]

Naive to where the stuff could go.

[B]

Yeah. Better word. Yeah.

[A]

I think if you're lucky in life, you have that sweet spot of like a year or two where you can always look and go, oh, my God, that was just the right time.

[B]

That was the right time.

[C]

Did you see people kind of looking down at food trucks at that time? Because I feel like you brought so much. I didn't wrongfully, but, like. Like, this is cheap food that we're not used to. I like the strawberry food. You, like, really brought this credibility to the space where now there's like east side King or east side Kings in Austin. Like, the people are searching out their food.

[B]

Oh, it's definitely racism. You know, as a. As a minority in this country. It's things that we go through every day that we have to sometimes Swallow. As you grow up, you know, whether you're Asian, Latino, black, you know, whatever it is in this country, you know, you're outnumbered many times you're hearing things, you know, in the periphery, in the ether about yourself. Sometimes, you know, you can't confront it, you know, because again, you're in a, in a space where everyone are making these off color jokes and saying these, these really racist tropes and like, or at school you have to deal with it. And so as someone that has to walk through the world this way, we're used to it and we see it and we find our ways to try to chip away at it. In terms of food trucks, they were being called roach coaches. So that's a really bad term. There's so much embedded in that term. I haven't heard that they were called roach coaches. And they were called that way in a very, very, in a way where people would really, really laugh horribly at people. Very much like we're seeing now how the rhetoric around immigrants and illegal immigrants

[A]

and not even people, not even people.

[B]

Labels are placed on them before even you have a chance to even know what the hell's going on. Right. It's already decided. It's already. That person is a murderer, illegal, you know, a criminal. And then, and then we need to kick them out of this country before

[A]

you've even had a. Who you are or that's what was

[B]

happening with food trucks. The same exact rhetoric. Roche coaxes. You're going to get diarrhea, you might die. We need to get these out of here. Don't ever eat on one of those. It's filthy, it's disgusting, it's an eyesore. We need to eradicate the world of these things because they are infiltrating our streets and our neighborhoods. And before you know it, we're going to be inundated and run over by them and we have to stop it now. That's what was happening, which was just

[C]

like other people's culture and their food being.

[B]

But it's just other people's culture and the food is delicious and it's people working their ass off just to, just to keep their lights on.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So Kogi comes along. We didn't start Kogi to be deep at all. We started Kogi to make $800 a night and get phone numbers from the club.

[C]

That's how everyone starts, right?

[B]

That was the business plan. That was it. There was no deepness in anything. But I think that's what allowed us to get deep is because we went in which with such naivety and short mindedness. And we just were open to whatever was going to happen. And what Kogi did was it changed the vocabulary and the attitude around that labelization of a roach coach, of dirty. Of looking at other humans and saying they're beneath you or less than you. Kogi all of a sudden took that word roach coach, turned it into gourmet.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that same truck now became gourmet food trucks instead of roachcoach. Language has such a powerful place in our world as you know, as a journalist, it can completely shift how people look at the exact same thing. And then it can change the whole course of society by changing that word. So you change the word from rochoke to gourmet food truck. It changes the whole trajectory of everything. The industry becomes a billion dollar industry. Cities like Austin, Washington D.C. portland, Oregon and just multiple cities all throughout the country start to have food trucks. Cities like Chicago, which are notorious for not having food trucks because of the mob ties of Al Capone and going back into controlling all aspects of commerce and food. And there were all draconian laws that wouldn't allow you to have certain things because all those had gateways and controls all through the underground. Chicago went back and started to change all these things.

[A]

Amazing. Yeah.

[B]

So because, you know, the world was changing and. And cities had to change with it.

[A]

And this was all happening quickly, relatively.

[B]

This all happened in a year.

[A]

That's insane. I didn't know.

[B]

This is blowing my mind in a year. So from 2000 up to 2008, end of 2008, when we started. Started roach coach rhetoric. Dirty diarrhea. By 2009, gourmet food truck, billion dollar industry. Cities around the country changing. England getting on board. Australia getting on board. Poland getting on board.

[C]

Jon Favreau getting.

[B]

Yeah, that guy. Yeah.

[A]

Well, I remember watching that film in New Zealand. Zealand. You can. Yeah. Consulted on that whole thing based on your.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I saw the poster for New Zealand. Every country had a different poster. It was.

[A]

Oh yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah.

[B]

But yeah, that, that all happened. That all happened in a year and it hasn't looked back, you know, and it filled a void of like beyond just the food. I think it created a bridge of culture for people to love each other a little. A little bit more in a way that they didn't know they could. Office workers going down and having a moment for themselves at a food truck. People in neighborhoods coming out of their homes and, you know, meeting their neighbors, looking at, looking at things. A lot of people going to neighborhoods they normally wouldn't have gone to and standing for two, three hours. We brought a lot of people together because the weights were really long and the people coming to eat. The trucks were all kind of a similar spirit. So they were all there for this for the same reason. It was very.

[A]

You've suddenly got something in common with all these people that you thought you might know A very early Burning man, you know, before it turned to.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It was also so much more accessible, too, for different socioeconomic classes of, like, I can have. Have good food at a reasonable price now.

[B]

It was a gateway. It was also brought generations together, from grandpa parent to kids. I like to look at Kogi as all the nuances. Individual people that were lonely, you know, and needed a place to go, or maybe not lonely, but just needed some time for themselves. Kogi was a sanctuary for that, you know, because in that first year, you could put on your headphones, go wait in a Kogi line for three hours, read a book, talk to the person in front of you or behind you. It was like waiting in a line for a ride at Disneyland. But it wasn't aggro. It was extremely loving and caring, and you chose to be there. That was the difference. I think that's the number one characteristic of the Kogi line, is that everyone that was there chose to be there for three hours. You see that in anime culture, comic book culture right now, in K pop culture. And that's built. Yeah. And it was really beautiful, man. I miss it so much.

[C]

But you're doing Porvita now, right?

[B]

Yeah, we do Tacos Per Vita. That is an offshoot of Kogi. Kogi's always been. And it kind of shows in a way where society and the financial society continues to falter and go for us as people, because Kogi's always been a very affordable option. It's probably been a cornerstone to our business to be the entry point for anyone. Right. So our food in 2008 started at $2.50, or actually $2 for a taco. It's only $3 now.

[A]

Fuck off.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah. That's insane.

[B]

18 years later.

[A]

You should make it more.

[B]

I should, but then it wouldn't be served. The purpose of what Kogi is is for catering. It used to be, like, someone could get the truck for, like, a thousand bucks, Right. And that was, like, affordable, but that's, like, even expensive now for a lot of people. So we started Tacos Per Vita to go back to the essence of Kogi, to take Kogi even deeper and so like for 5, 600 bucks you can get tacos per vida. So because the truck itself comes with some built in costs. So tacos peritas, no truck grill set up. And you know, and then like if you were just throwing a party for like 30 people, your kid's birthday party, you could have, you could. We wanted to create another level of

[C]

affordability, you know, how was the return to that? Because it was. You tested it as like a stand at first again. I remember when that opened and like it had that same buzz and feel that Kogi did of like, Roy's got another pop up. Better. You want to go wait in line for four hours for time.

[B]

I guess it would be like a big actor going back and doing like a black box. One man, one person theater show. I love it, man. If I could just do that. That's great. So what we did was this was like three, four years ago. And we just decided to start something out of the blue and just go back and start cooking on the streets and make it very, very like impulsive and spontaneous. So what happened was just going back to the original style, putting out a tweet, tell them we're going to be at this spot until we sell out. And people still showed up. Like thousands of people showed up. It was crazy. It was like four hour lines.

[A]

I've never been inside a food truck. I don't know what it's like under that pressure and making things. I've looked in from the outside. What are the main elements of chaos or what makes it make sense in there than working in a restaurant?

[C]

The limitations of the truck versus so

[A]

limited, like this tiny space. Like, what makes that good and what makes that like terribly stressful?

[B]

Well, one is you're in very close quarters. So I call it butts be button. You know, so you're gonna, you're gonna touch butts a lot.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And you're gonna bump into each other and. And you know, it's like being in a submarine. You're gonna have to get along with the person you're with for very long periods of time. And it's bumpy. You know, you gotta travel from one location to the other. You have to work in the rain, you have to work in the heat, you have to go through traffic, you have to hold your pee until you get to the bathroom. Of course.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and you have to pre plan ahead and like go to the bathroom before you have to prep on the truck. It's like there's a lot of things that make it really weird, but fun. But the limitations are the power of a food truck. I think that's the most beautiful thing about it. Again, going back to garageband type stuff,

[C]

it pushes you to have to be creative.

[B]

Pushes you to be creative. You have enough equipment to pull off almost anything. You have a high hot, you have a hot plate, the hot, like plancha. You have a steam table, you have a cutting board, you have refrigeration, you have a little warm oven. If you don't get in your own way, there's enough there for you to figure out what you want to do. And again, this, I hope is my last music analogy. Sorry. For so many. I'm really sorry, I apologize. But again, if you just have one small amp and a guitar, you figure that shit out. You figure it out. Sometimes that might be the best music you ever made in your whole damn career. And so that limitation is where food truck is, where people do get in their own way is I'm a chef, I need all this stuff, I need all of these bells and whistles in order to pull off this food. Well, the way I look at it is if you don't have those bells and whistles, create a whole fucking different type of food. Then create the food that requires bells and whistles. Look at what you have and then plug into it and become one with what you have. And then figure out how you're gonna, how you're gonna make the food around what you got.

[A]

Yeah, those limitations and prisons, there's limitations. You can make something new.

[B]

Look at what they make in prison, man. You know what I'm saying?

[C]

Well, there's less to hide behind too, if you don't have all the bells and whistles. It has to be good if it's gonna be that simple.

[B]

Yeah, you could pull off so much with a hot plate, a microwave, a little steam kettle. Like I could cook you a 12 course meal with a coffee. Leave it with a coffee kettle, you

[A]

know, I believe it.

[B]

A hot plate and a microwave, I'll cook you a 12 course meal.

[A]

Very boring. Logistical question. But how does it work with where you can park up and operate? Like, is the city like a big thumbs up to food trucks? Is it like a bit of a nightmare? Like you can park up and you don't have the right license and you get booted? Like, how does that work?

[B]

Technically there is a thumb up, thumbs up, but there are also a lot of little thumbs downs here and there. And so what you have to look at it is you have to also look that there are different cities in this one big city. And different cities operate different ways. So let's start with the easy, basic stuff. The truck itself is a moving licensed vehicle. So in terms of not only business license, but in terms of health license. Health license. So you are within, within that truck, you are kind of in your own force field as far as wherever you go. So that it's a really awesome and strange phenomenon to exist in this modern world where your own little force field travels with you wherever you go. And the rules that apply to where you were will reply to where you are.

[A]

Yeah, I see. Yeah. So, yeah, so, yeah, everything.

[B]

It's really cool. So within the city of la, you can park anywhere you want. The same rules that apply to a car apply to you. The same rules of parking in a meter apply to you. The only thing you can't do is park next to a school. That's when they're in session, within like 500ft or something like that. And in like residential neighborhoods, unless you're hired for a catering event and stuff like that. But other than that, you can, you can park anywhere you want to park. Oh, and you can't park to other, next to other restaurants similar to a school. Like within like 500.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like I can't park like right in front of a restaurant, you know,

[C]

the other Korean taco spot.

[B]

But other than that you can go anywhere you want to go. Yeah.

[A]

So it's loose. That's cool.

[B]

Yeah. But then there are other cities, like Glendale is a different city than la. Pasadena is a different city than la. Those cities all have little rules and stuff like that. So you may have to get a business license from them or a permit from them or things like that. And then the last part of it is there are street politics and there are some city politics and enforcements that are against street food unfairly. A lot of street food vendors have been attacked and unfairly, like disrupted. And so we've been fighting really, really hard for the justice of street food vending to make sure that it stays legal. And even though it is legal, the problem is when you get to the streets, sometimes what's legal ain't legal. Whatever. Certain things say on paper, when it's 1:00am and you're out in the middle of the streets, streets sometimes completely, that

[A]

people aren't going to know what that's different about what's going on.

[B]

Yeah. You know, in LA and other cities like you, there's street knowledge and there's book knowledge, you know, I mean, so it's kind of, like, that. You got to deal with that. And you got to know when to turn on your street knowledge. You got to know when to maneuver. You got to know when you know. You got to put the books down and figure out what's happening right in front of you. You. You know, and. And so you have to navigate that as well. You can't just, like. You can't just like, oh, at all times, always be like, here's my. Here's my folder, you know, and see.

[A]

Yeah, no, I'm not gonna find.

[B]

So sometimes you have to figure it out.

[A]

Yeah. You need to be so switched on to people and culture as well, doing what you do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's not. You got to concentrate and be aware of all of that.

[B]

All of that. You also have to be hospitable, you know, And I'm not talking about talking just dangerous street law enforcement. I'm talking also, maybe you have to deal with a building manager who says, you can't park here. Right. But then legally you can. Right? So what are you gonna do? Just argue with that person and yell and go back?

[A]

That's how you convey this.

[B]

You also have to turn on your charm, you know, and you have to, like, you know, figure things out. You have to, like, make a bridge. Give you one example, Kogi. When we first started, the first night we started, we were going in front of the clubs in Hollywood, but we. We can't park in front of the clubs, you know? You know how it is at the clubs. They got bouncers out front. Everyone's like, if you. It's like. It's like the airport, you know, Whistles. Get out. Move, Move, move, move, move, move. What we did, our idea was, I know these bouncers, man. Like, I know who they are. I know I grew up. Up with. With them, their homies, you know, like, not maybe them specifically, but I grew up with guys that are bouncers. I know.

[A]

You get that.

[B]

I know. I know the psychology. I know how their personality. I know who they are. I know if I hand them a burrito and they eat this burrito, they're gonna be good. They're gonna be straight. Yeah. So that was the plan. That was the plan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It all made sense in my mind. So we pulled up, and they're, you can't stay. You can't park. You can't park here. We hand them a burrito. We were just like. The whole team was like, just eat the burrito. Then you tell us what you want us to do. They eat the burrito, they're like you. Yo, bro, like, just stay right here.

[C]

Just.

[B]

Just you. You good all night.

[A]

Something so simple.

[B]

That's the. The kind of things you have to do when you're out there, you know,

[A]

not show them a folder of papers that you have.

[B]

Show them the folder papers.

[A]

Yeah. Just finally, how. What's here in 2026? What's food truck land like out there in Los Angeles? Is it thriving? Is it in between? Is it. Is it changes? Is it stale?

[B]

It depends on what type of food truck there is. Again, very broad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think when you say food truck, and I'm not blasting you, I'm just saying that like anything in life, there are levels and facets to it all. So food truck is not one. One thing. You know, it's. There are taco trucks, there are dessert trucks, there are catering trucks, there are lonceras, there are fusion trucks, there are BDX trucks, there are sandwich trucks, there's all kinds of different trucks. And it depends on kind of like there are late night trucks, they're drunk after club, they're hipster trucks, eastside trucks, west side, each with their own ceviche trucks, you know, so this all. It all depends on what's going on. I would say taco trucks, Marisco trucks, media trucks. Like those type of trucks, Ipostor trucks. I think they're doing great because they're locked in to the city. They're locked into the communities. You'll find a lot of them in the neighborhoods in which those trucks come from. Inglewood, Lenox, Hawthorne, east la, Boyle Heights, you know, Van Nuys, you know, it's all embedded within it. So those trucks, I think are fine. The. The kind of fusion modern trucks that Kogi kind of spawn. Those have really, really been hurting lately, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because a lot of people not. I don't think it's entirely because the. The trend changed or the food changed. I think it was really because of COVID You're here because of COVID Yeah.

[A]

Covid fucked a lot of things up.

[B]

Covid it up. Because those trucks really evolved into feeding office workers. It became the number one life lifeline for the modern food truck. You know, nobody went to their offices for four years.

[A]

Years.

[B]

A food business can barely last four days without business. That. That just completely obliterated that market. Then you have, like, kind of like the dessert. The dessert trucks, ice cream trucks, all those things. Those kind of. They've been struggling. Churro trucks, I think, are holding on. People have moved away weirdly from like shaved ice. They Shave ice and soft surf trucks. Those used to be really big ice cream trucks and all that stuff.

[A]

Stuff.

[B]

It kind of. It's not as big anymore, but churs are hanging on. Yeah, we're definitely past the boom, but. But things are holding on.

[A]

And just final, final question. That very first item you made to sell in your very first food truck, was it really just a quick, like, overnight kind of, like, quick invention?

[B]

Yeah, it was a lifetime in the making. Making that I was finally able to have an opportunity to put together. So the flavors were finally a chance for me to express everything that I feel and that I am. Before that, I would kind of separate being a chef, and in my personal life, being a chef, I was cooking as a chef. And a lot of that is influenced through European technique and standards and knowledge. But not just that. It was also just. I didn't think that the food that I loved or that were. That I truly craved or ate or was in my home, that I could translate that into a restaurant setting. So I would cook restaurant food, and then I would get off the clock, like, you were touching on. Like, we don't eat the same food that we cook when we're working in restaurants. I would get off the clock and go eat the food you wanted. Really loved.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Which is street food. And I just never found the bridge for that. And then Kogi was the bridge. It was like, so the moment my friend called me, we went the next day and shopped. And then the next day, when I had the ingredients, I just started. I just started cooking. You know, I knew we needed a salsa. And then I was just like, okay, that salsa, it needs dried chilies and needs to taste like tacos. Salsa, roja. But then I want it to taste like the first vinaigrette and bite that you get at a Korean barbecue. Then I was thinking, you know, it has to have a little bit of a mole feel. But the mole could be gochujang and which is fermented bean paste. And then these could all come together. There's an acidity, but the acidity is not just lime. It can be rice vinegar. And then there's a nuttiness that's not peanuts, but it could be sesame. So it was like, all these things coming together.

[A]

If you're hungry listening to this.

[B]

And then it just happened. It was just flowing. And then it was one of those things where you knock it out on the first try. We stuck the landing on the first shot. So. So doing all that we were doing in an apartment Kitchen in Koreatown. And then I made the sauce, I made the marinade. We came up with the vinaigrette. We cooked the beef, we chopped it before even anyone tasting it. I just put the first taco together. There were, like four of us in the room. Gave everyone a taco, we took a bite, and we're just like, fuck, this is crazy.

[A]

Fucking got it.

[B]

Let's go tomorrow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the recipe hasn't changed since then, which is crazy. So have you ever eaten at a food truck?

[A]

I have eaten at some food trucks. I have. I'm a fan of food trucks. I like delicious food quickly. Like, I. I don't like the experience. I'm just a bit adhd. I don't like sitting down for a long period and being stuck in a seat and that whole experience I don't love.

[B]

And the whole ceremony of having to order or talk to us or.

[A]

Yeah. Just some. If I'm in the mood. Yeah. But sometimes the procedure of sitting down and then, like. Like the ordering different layers and then waiting for the check, and it's all I. That my default isn't loving that.

[B]

You would love Korea.

[A]

So Korea you have never been.

[B]

So Korea has a lot of the restaurants, the real restaurants, not the foodie restaurants, but restaurants, neighborhood restaurants, restaurants that you go to, your parents go to every day and all that stuff. Their restaurants, brick and mortars, everything, all that. But the people that come in, they're ordering as they walk in, but it's ordering like a military sergeant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Four soups. And they're walking in the door and ordering, but everyone is doing that. And then the people working there, it's all built in for that. So then by the time you walk and get to your table, which is only from here, maybe to the other side of the room, the food is already on the table.

[A]

Oh, this is fucking heaven.

[B]

It's heaven.

[A]

This is heaven. And everyone's agreeing that that's the system. No one's been.

[B]

Everyone's agreeing.

[A]

That's just the way it is. It is.

[B]

That's the system. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Sometimes you'll pay before.

[A]

This is what I'm joking about. Because that's the other thing.

[B]

Because there's no tax. There's no tax and tip.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So there's no tax and tip. So there's no reason to figure it out after. Yeah. So you walk in and you drop a five. You yell your order.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The food hits your table, and you

[A]

get the out of there, and you have the most delicious food.

[B]

Food you can Stay as long as you want.

[A]

Yeah, but you don't have to.

[B]

But you don't have to. And. And then you just walk up and go. But it's, it's. It's really. I think we have it backwards here in the. In Western culture because there's so much ceremony built into eating food. I think that the, you know, the ceremony can come during and after, like eating at home. The food should just come, you know.

[A]

I could not agree more. I couldn't agree more.

[B]

Yeah. And then. And that sparks everything, just like. Because we do it in a home environment in Western culture. The food hits the table and then

[A]

everyone's chilling and then everyone has a nice time and they're chatting and they're happy. It's that waiting.

[B]

I think it's the waiting. Yeah.

[A]

We love Roy Choi.

[C]

Yeah. The way he talks about food and just like the soul of cooking. I really, really love.

[A]

I don't know, a lot of food people. People that are in that world. And so I was just kind of blown away. It's like, sort of like combined, like, knowledge and passion. And it's just in his bones. Because as it's like from day dot, he was brought up in that and it's him. Like, you can't separate food from who he is. It's the whole thing.

[C]

And I mean, just the way he talked about kind of the class wars of it, too, is, I think, an important part of the story of food trucks, which maybe we're not supposed to call them food trucks either.

[A]

No. And also the. We was talking about, like, the roaches and like how that. Yeah. Roach coach. I didn't know about any of that. Just when he was talking about. Yeah. The power of language and perception and all that stuff. That's a massive thing to shift people's perceptions like that.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

To the point we're at now, where it's almost for some, swung too far in the other direction, where it's almost too fancy.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And I think he sits in this. He understands, like, both those worlds perfectly.

[C]

Which, I mean, there is like. That's. That's is what's really awesome about la. Like, you've got those. Not just food trucks, but you've got the. Like just tents up in a parking lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

In people cooking food. Like, that's some of the best food you can get in la.

[D]

And you.

[A]

You, like. Hits you when you drive by. You can smell it. It's the smell is that.

[C]

And when you, like, walk out of a concert and they've got the hot Dogs wrapped in bacon.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And the onion. Like that smell every time.

[A]

Half.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Walking out of a concert in la, almost every single concert, they're just lined up ready to sell hot dogs.

[A]

It's a joy. It's an incredible array of bootleg T shirts from the show.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they know that the merch is expensive. And then outside, they know that you've been spending, like, the food costs a lot. Inside, you're probably hungry because you just have some, like, tiny, terrible, like, fries

[C]

or if there even is food.

[A]

If there's even food.

[C]

They know everyone and there's drinking.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

They want to spend a couple bucks on a hot dog wrapped in bacon.

[A]

So good.

[C]

The smell is incredible.

[A]

If you have any food truck stories, flight the spread, chat gmail.com. i'm sure you're sick of me saying that email address by now, but we'd love to hear from you. Maybe you have a food truck. Maybe you've got a recommendation in your city or town. Would love to hear from you.

[C]

I mean, the one thing that we didn't bring up was the kiwi food truck that showed up outside of the. Of our show in Denver.

[A]

Oh, hell yeah. Hap and his ice creams.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, my God. Happy cones. Was that right? Happy cones.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Of course.

[A]

There's food trucks that are. That are desserts and ice cream and sweet things, which I love.

[C]

Yeah. Like Roy said, there's a million. Like, food truck is almost too general because there are so many different kinds and versions and different street food.

[A]

Also really liked how he talked about. About it being good, that there are limitations in what you can do in there. Something about having limited, like, room to cook and to make food and to store everything, and that somehow leads to really fun flavors and treats and everything.

[C]

Have you seen Matteo's matcha?

[A]

Oh, okay. We need to talk about this. Sorry. I know you love matcha. Since I met you, I am also partaking in a lot of matcha.

[C]

Have you gone to Mateo's?

[A]

So on the way to your house or on the way to our studio here, drive past every time. I haven't been. I have not been either. What it is, is it's a man with. He's got a little table. He's often sitting out in incredibly hot temperatures.

[C]

Yeah, I feel he's got an umbrella, but I also don't know how he's doing it.

[A]

Corner of an intersection.

[C]

Yep. A stop sign. Not an intersection stop sign. Like neighborhood stop sign.

[A]

And yeah, he's selling matcha. It's Only matcha.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I think a lot of. I think it's iced.

[C]

Or is it. I hope it's iced. I mean. Yeah. He's got a cooler, I would imagine.

[A]

I. There are a lot of. I've seen people buying it. Yeah.

[C]

I have to.

[A]

It's not like a failed venture. I'm super curious whether he's kind of doing it guerrilla style. I don't know if you're selling drugs, if you need to have.

[C]

He's got his food license, is what

[A]

you're doing, that kind of thing. But look, good on. We're not out to shut down Mateo. It's much like good on you. But I'm fascinated by him because the only other, like, what I liken it to is when you get a kid, like, with a lemonade stand.

[C]

Yes. It's very. I mean, we get in the neighborhood, too.

[A]

It's an adult lemonade stand, but with macho, but the same energy.

[C]

The poster is written almost like a lemonade stands. I feel like what we need to do is for Patreon, you need to go do a little mini interview with Mateo.

[A]

I think I want to talk to Matteo and I want to try the matcha.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm trying to do a certain guy. He looks.

[C]

Yeah. I'm not like, oh, who's the fuck is this Mateo guy sitting on the street corner.

[A]

You're calling the cops from behind the bushes. Like, tangential. And I may have spoken about this before, but just talking about. Because Mateo's kind of. I think he's like a. He's an attractive man. There is a. And I'm. I'm. I'm going to stumble into probably insults and stereotypes and everything here, but there is an incredibly hot rubbish truck driver.

[C]

I have heard about this. The. At the coffee shop. They love. They love to watch.

[A]

Yeah. He's like. So, I mean, I don't know.

[C]

The hot garbage man, they call it.

[A]

Yeah, he's just. It's like Levi's commercial or something. He's like. It's that kind of a guy.

[C]

He's always wearing, like, very tight shorts.

[A]

Very tight. They're sort of low. So you see that the muscles of, like. I don't know what that bit is, but it's not abs, but it's the bits between the abs and the legs. Like a little.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's a little triangle. Anyway, just blows my mind. This guy I. I'm bringing up because I think he could be an episode. Because I think he could be an. An eye into the world. Of incredibly legitimate thing that we need in the city, which is the rubbish truck driver who we don't think about because they're just doing all this important work in the background.

[C]

So I think your goal is you got to hang out by the garbage cans on garbage day.

[A]

Y.

[C]

Catch him, ask if you can go for a ride with him.

[A]

Can I go for a ride with you? And then that's my.

[C]

Yeah, I think normally garbage truck drivers are in pairs, though, right?

[A]

I think they're in pairs.

[C]

So I don't know.

[A]

Hang off the back, right?

[C]

Yeah. Someone hanging off the back with them. But I've also seen the garbage man on our street. Like, only one guy in the car, I think, and then one guy. The truck, maybe. I think we need all these answers.

[A]

Okay. Mateo the matcha guy. That, that.

[C]

And that seems like a Patreon bonus.

[A]

Okay, so you're putting him in Patreon territory. You're putting hot rubber shrug guy as a full EPI somewhere.

[C]

I think that could be a fun full episode.

[A]

He's like a Calvin Klein model. And it's just as an amazing. And again, not stereotyping here, but it's just an amazing juxtaposition to have him hanging off the back of a rubbish truck when in our culture we're used to seeing them on a billboard or at the Oscars or something. It's just. Okay, I'll put pursue it. Roy Choy, again, thank you, wonderful human. Big fan. Thank you, Rob, for exploiting a friendship to get us a really good guest

[C]

anytime on the show.

[A]

Feedback, as always. Flightless spread chat. Gmail.com it's. It gets increasingly detailed and wonderful feedback. Primarily that I'm going to read out involves two episodes, Trains, which just aired last week. And we have a lot coming in from our Jehovah's Witnesses episodes episode.

[C]

So much train crashes, in case you Train crashes. Did skip one. We didn't just do an episode on trains.

[A]

No, that would be boring if you haven't listened to Jehovah's Witnesses or trains. I'm biased, but I think they're both great episodes. There was a really great bit of feedback on our Instagram account.

[C]

Yeah, I know what you're talking about already.

[A]

And they apologize. They're actually lovely. But it was a very reactive bit of feedback. And they basically said, this episode is so clear, clearly. Essentially, it's sort of like paid for by the car lobby. Because this is so anti train. Yeah, like, this is blatantly anti train. And this is. I'm shocked and horrified by this I'm exaggerating it slightly, but it was pretty hard line.

[C]

Yeah. That Big Motor was funding.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Our anti train episode.

[A]

I would love to say I would love Big Motor to be sponsoring the show because we would be making so much money.

[C]

Yeah. Volklagen wants to sponsor the next episode. We do on train crashes.

[A]

But no, there's a bit of other feedback about this, but essentially it was sort of just saying, look, trains are great and riding on public transport. Fantastic. We love it.

[C]

Yeah. I think we both romanticize and do like train rides.

[A]

My God.

[C]

It was not about that.

[A]

Very. Rob and I are very pro train in concept of train. Very anti the train companies not giving a shit about human. Human safety.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

But to the person that did leave that comment, you were gracious and wonderful and we commented back and you. You also commented and it's all fine. It was just very funny at the time.

[C]

We really enjoyed it. We were into text chain about it

[A]

and it was just.

[C]

It was a good laugh.

[A]

Yeah. Just being paid off by the car lobby is a really good concept. In the stories of people writing and saying about putting pennies on the tracks. Incredibly common. I will add incredibly common in New Zealand where I kind of made out like. It never happens in New Zealand. Happens all the time. Kelsey said can confirm. Putting on a railroad track is still an American tradition in the Midwest. I'm from Michigan. My parents taught me and I teach my nieces and my nephew. The tradition continues. Every time we hear a train go by overnight, we excitedly race over the tracks in the morning to find the coins we left behind. The coins have become collector's items that we show off at our family's cabin. Very cute. Where do you keep your coins? Do you have them somewhere?

[C]

The boys have like a piggy bank. I think that's where our coins go.

[A]

Kids still have piggy banks.

[C]

Mine do.

[A]

That's adorable. I had a piggy bank.

[C]

They have no concept or Vinnie Calvin kind of gets the value of coins now.

[A]

Vinny doesn't give a shit.

[C]

Vinnie. Well, he doesn't know what.

[A]

It's wonderful. No concept of money. Brilliant.

[C]

He had this coin. This is a plastic coin from school that has like a man's face on it. And he asked like you used that coin and to get the man to do things for you is what he thought it was. Cuz that's why face was on there.

[A]

I see.

[C]

So it. It was almost like a genie that you get. You find this man and he does six things for you at this coin.

[A]

I wish Money did this. That would be so sick.

[C]

He was trying to explain that to me this morning with the coin.

[A]

He's trying to tell you, he's like,

[C]

dad, this is how this coin works.

[A]

What if he's right?

[C]

He might be.

[A]

A lot of people wrote in about Brian Brightline, which if you don't know, is the most dangerous passenger train in the United States. According to a report released by The Miami Herald July 15, 2025, Brightline trains have killed 182 people since they began testing in 2017. All I'll say, if you're on Instagram, go to brightlinecrash tracker. Every time there is a death on a Brightline train, the account posts, posts an alert and I recommend going there. It's bleak, but it gets the horror across in a. We're using a sense of humor, which I think is a really effective way to get across information sometimes, especially when something is so bleak.

[C]

Where does Brightline. Where are they out of.

[A]

Brightline is the only privately owned. The only privately owned and operated intercity passenger railroad in the US Development started as all abroad Florida by Florida East Coast Industries. So started in Florida, began between Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. It expanded, additional routes planned. This terminal is in Miami and Orlando, Florida.

[C]

So it's just Florida, though.

[A]

Look, I fear whenever I say the fact recently I get it wrong.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So I'm very worried.

[C]

Hopefully someone can tell us where Bright Line trains go. Yeah, I feel Florida is just. But trains go a long distance, so it would be weird if it's just in.

[A]

It's a fact. It's just in Florida.

[C]

All right.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Heard he here first. Jerry Roden, who's coming to our Salt Lake City live show. Thank you, Jerry. We'll see you there. Jerry says, I'm listening to the train crash episode. Rob said that in Chicago, the school buses are required to stop at railroad crossings and open the window. He mentioned the 95 Fox River Grove, Illinois bus train collision which killed seven students as a possible reason for the policy. Jerry says, I live in a suburb of Salt Lake City and the history of that policy possibly has its roots in this area. In 1938, a school. A bus full of high school children was crossing over train tracks and heavy fog. 1938, the bus was struck by a freight train. The driver and 23 students were all killed. The accident resulted in regulatory changes including the requirements that bus drivers stop at all railroad tracks. Open the door, look both ways and listen for trains for the worst thing you can imagine happening to like a bus full of kids train Horrible Cherry thank you for that morbid bit of history. Sarah wrote in to be honest, I haven't finished listening to this episode. Always a danger sign when you give feedback before you finish listening. But in this case I respect it. I wanted to tell you that my aunt was actually run over by a train driver while in her car. My uncle in brackets, not a good dude, was drunk, parked on the tracks when a car was coming, and tried to kill my aunt by leaving the car there with her inside. She survived lots of surgeries and complications, but she was a true badass who fought a train and waited one. Her story deserves to be remembered. I agree. She sounds amazing. Sarah. Respect to her. If you can get hit by a train while you're in a car and survive.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Holy Garrett says possibly Jarrett, but I think it's Garrett. In light of the recent episode and the request for train related stories, I thought I'd share the time my dad was hit by a train. Or more accurately, the time he hit a train. Great opening line. I'm instantly intrigued.

[C]

We got a lot of stories about people getting everyone had either knew someone or yeah, had someone in their family. Sometimes I was hit by a train.

[A]

When I do these episodes, I think have I just gone down a rabbit hole without enough context about the greater picture? And I do do this often.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

In the case of train crashes. No. I feel like every one of our

[C]

listeners as a train story.

[A]

A train story which is blowing our minds. My dad was hit by train and more accurately, at the time he hit a train, he somehow didn't see a moving train on the tracks and drove directly into its side, ripping off his truck's front end. End. My dad says he was looking at the log truck parked near the tracks and despite the truck driver's frantic arm waving, my dad responded with a wave of his own and then drove into the train. The best part was he then featured on the local news as there was a prison break in his rural area and all news stations were up from the city covering that. The lead of the story was train. What train? Love the podcast. Keep doing all the the work. Really love that his dad was just focused on a a truck who was waving at him. He was just like hey, hi. Which to be fair, is what I would do.

[C]

Yeah, that seems like a David story.

[A]

Pamela, her mother's name.

[C]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

This is you talk about Mama. Pamela says, in the early 80s, I lived near a town in upstate New York that freight trains drove through but didn't stop. Stop it One hot summer afternoon, a small group of young teen boys, my classmates, were walking on the one lane wide train bridge when a train came into view. Although the same age one was much shorter and soon fell behind as they tried to outrun the train. What an image. Little short guy left behind. Awful. Got left behind as they tried to outrun the train to get to the end of the bridge and get off the tracks. The shorter boy didn't think he'd make it and instead lay as flat as he could on his back between the rail, which kind of respect him. That is a bold.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

When you're running away from something to like stop and think, can I do something else? Yeah, my God. The other boys made off the train bridge. The train stopped with a freight train wagon directly over the short kid and he had the barest of scrapes so it stopped. But it did pass over the top of him.

[C]

And he survived.

[A]

He survived. No doubt. The boys were all grounded, but the luckiest got his photo taken for the county new newspaper. I like that in this time in America, all these interactions ended up in

[C]

the paper, the news and the paper.

[A]

I drove into a train, that's why. Yeah, I lay under a train. Just extraordinary.

[C]

Yeah, that is.

[A]

I love the Alien films and there's one of the alien films is Prometheus and there's an iconic scene in it where a woman is running away as a giant skyscraper high spaceship crashes towards her and she just runs in a straight, straight line and narrowly misses it and everyone watching is like, run off to the side. Yeah, yeah, run off to the side. But when you're running, you're so scared you would just run in a straight line. This kid was like, no, this train's here. I'm not going to outrun it. I'm going to lie down.

[C]

I mean, that's some quick thinking.

[A]

It's extraordinary. I wouldn't. I'd get hit by the train in the back as I'm running.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Kate said I grew up in a suburb 30 minutes north of Boston and people getting hit by trains was just a normal occurrence for us. A boy a few years older than me was hit by a train while walking with his headphones on. I never knew this wasn't a normal occurrence outside the US and now I'm horrified. And Kate just reminded me, in New Zealand people do get hit by trains. It happens everywhere.

[C]

Do you guys have trains in New Zealand?

[A]

We just got them last year. No, we.

[C]

The boat took a long time to get to New Zealand.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we got all sorts of things recently since you left.

[C]

So before you left you didn't know about the now it's all new to me.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah, people do get by trains in New Zealand, but America definitely cares a lot less about it. Spencer said. I really enjoyed the train crash episode. Glad Spencer. It reminded me that some people like my dumbass sister in brackets but mean actually believe in a conspiracy theory that we did not build the railroads, but rather we discovered them from a previous civilization called the Tarjeria. Ooh, I'm intrigued by this.

[C]

I like this. Yeah.

[A]

So I'm going to make a mental note of this. We'll come back to this. It goes something along the lines of there was a giant mud flood that buried everything before it and train tracks were left over from that. I suppose it's quite problematic in the sense that it denies slave labor involved in how they were actually built. Might be up your alley to do an episode on that.

[C]

Yeah, I mean Targeria just makes train dreams movie.

[A]

Not factually accurate.

[C]

Not actually accurate.

[A]

I mean we own a lot of Jerry nominated for an Oscar, wasn't it, Jenny? I worked for a rail car manufacturer for five years and let me tell you, that was very quick way to learn just how dangerous rail cars are. There are a ton of gruesome accidents involved with the manufacturing and repair of rail cars. These are super heavy cars on top of razor sharp wheels and all it takes is a little jolt forwards or backwards for a human hand to get horrifically injured. So I just like Jenny pointing out, like just trains are trains on trains tracks at any pace.

[C]

Well, any like industrial machinery like that is also very unforgiving. I had an uncle that worked in like a factory like that and his wedding ring got caught in a machine and just ripped his finger off.

[A]

Oh, horrific.

[C]

We have this big metal machinery, like. Yeah, human bones are not going to stop that.

[A]

It reminds me of my dad. I'm sure my dad mind me to telling this. He's fine. He's lived a full life.

[C]

He doesn't listen.

[A]

So you know, he also doesn't listen to this. I've tried to get him to listen. I've set it up on his. On the iPad.

[C]

Can we, before you tell this story, are there like topics that we could cater to him to like kind of trap him into finally listening?

[A]

My dad. Yeah, he would like stories about if we do an episode about Bob Dylan.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

He'll listen to that.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

If we do a story about dairy farming or like cows, he'd probably listen to that. We can do that.

[C]

American topic.

[A]

Yeah. Dylan and Cows.

[C]

Dylan and Cows. Okay, now what's this whole story about your dad?

[A]

He is a real handyman. So he does everything. Like he builds things. He's good with cars, good with plumbing, good with like. He builds things.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I remember there was. He had a power saw and it's that big like spinning disc that you like pull along and it will chop big bits of wood.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I can't remember exactly how it happened, but his. So many questions. Because I was like, was he naked? I don't know. His sack got drawn in and like, what? Partly, like cut open by. I believe it was a band saw.

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

So, yes, severed. So it wasn't chopped off. But his sack was compromised by a saw. And now I think about it, I never asked him at the time, like, how, like, was it. Did it go with the pants?

[B]

Going through the pants.

[C]

Was Pamela there?

[A]

She was in the house.

[C]

She wasn't doing something kinky. And no.

[A]

No, it wasn't a six. No, he was like building. No, he wouldn't. No, because he wouldn't have been naked because it would just cut through the clothing.

[C]

Maybe was. I think we need a follow up on this story.

[A]

Do we need to do an Alice de Faria?

[C]

I mean, at least Patreon episode?

[A]

I just always remember thinking it made me think about testicle sex differently ever after. Because I'm like, you can cut through that? No testicles was severed. None of the mechanics of it. Purely the skin.

[C]

And he just like openly shared this? Yeah, like I'm.

[A]

I wasn't going to cover it up. Like, he wasn't into it. He was embarrassed, but he wasn't going to like hide it.

[C]

I do that. That's not like coming up, like, you tell me dinner time.

[A]

Sure, I would you tell your family? You tell Natalie?

[C]

Well, yes, she would find out, but it's not like we're going to tell the kids this story.

[A]

Yeah, they're too young. If your kids. I was. When? How old was I when the testicle sack was severed? Maybe 16 or something.

[C]

Okay. I guess you were old enough.

[A]

I was old enough to know.

[C]

Was he bedridden? For a bit.

[A]

My dad is such a hard ass. Not a hard. He doesn't complain. I complain. You know, this working with me.

[C]

I complain endlessly. A lot, relentlessly.

[A]

He fair. He doesn't complain. And so. No, he said it happened. Said my testicle sacrifice got opened up, stitched up. It's back to Vine. We won't talk about it again. And he never did.

[C]

Okay, we need to talk about this again though.

[A]

Just Skylar. Oh, Skylar. I won't go into this because we're running over time, but she sent in like, actually, I'll read the beginning of it because I just think it's a really good counterpoint. It's kind of what the Instagram user was getting at. This one's a complaint email says Skylar, but maybe one from a place of understanding is an American question mark. Honestly, I thought Europeans would be five steps ahead of me on this complaint, but I checked the comments and have accepted the possibility that Europeans maybe don't listen to it. Podcast about in New Zealand and America. Car brain.

[C]

That was a low blow.

[A]

She's going for it as I read this.

[C]

I'm going to start by nagging you.

[A]

Yeah, no, it was a really good nag. Car brain in quote marks is a term used in transit enthusiast circles about the ways that car ownership shape people's view of the world and safety. It's framed by train lovers as a sort of insanity, but it's understandable if you drive a car. Issues that affect drivers affect. Affect you. It's the statistics drivers ignore that are more frustrating. That 40,000 to 45,000 US drivers die each year for reasons that have nothing to do with trains. That 77% of drivers have been in at least one accident. That every car in the US has five times its space taken up and parking huge lesson swaths of land. She goes on for a long time, but I think it is a really good point and it's kind of what that original commenter was getting to. Two thoughts. Thoughts on that. I think that of course, cars horrifically dangerous. People get scared about flying. It's like if you're going to die, you're probably going to die in a car. Of course, more likely in the car than getting hit by a train. I agree completely. People should take public transport, trains, carpools, boats, all of that. I try and take boats as often as I can.

[C]

We need more canals in la.

[A]

Canals is my main form of drink transport. I came here tonight by canal. But at the same time it's kind of. I see this as being a little bit of sort of what about ism, where you do a topic and there's this thing of like, but what about this? Yeah, it's like. And I think she's got a good point, Skylar. And I completely understand it and I think it's valid. At the same time, I also think a story about train companies horrific negligence when it comes to Safety is also.

[C]

Yeah. I mean that story to me was more about capitalism and yes, big trains caring more about profit than safety. I don't think either one of us saying don't ride trains.

[A]

Public transport, great.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Ride trains, great. Just be careful when you encounter a train crossing. I mean walk.

[C]

Just mostly walk places though too. Walk places, don't drive cars.

[A]

I completely agree. I love walking. Do you see me walking around a lot? Yeah, sometimes you'll see me walking and you'll take a secret photo of me walking and send me a photo. Yeah. Okay. I know there's a lot of feedback, but I find this really informative and interesting. Jehovah's Witnesses. Yep. So we did hear from a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses. So we have, we have more Jehovah's Witnesses than I thought listening to the show.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Most of you incredibly polite, reasoned. That's great. The main complaint, as I expected from members of the religion, was you didn't talk to anyone from this religion and you only told negative stories about the. The religion. To that I'd just say in general, I think with 9 million adherents, I think Jehovah's Witnesses are going just fine. And I kind of see my. Our role in a way is I think to be. To take a critical eye is a valuable thing. The religion's doing just fine without us. Like there's a lot of people talking good things about it. I think being critical is not the end of the world. For if you're a Jehovah's Witness and if you're a anything, if someone is talking shit about it, maybe get in there and make your organization better to others. That's my hot take. With that in mind, Jessica said, very disappointed that this issue has no one that is currently a Witness. Really. Of course former Witnesses always have bad or flat out wrong things to say. It's very one sided story. So disappointing. Naileen, I'm an avid listener and really enjoy your shows but I'm very disappointed in this episode because it is so one sided and only negative. As a journalist you should be not. You should be doing your due diligence when reporting on issues and topics affecting real people. To what I would say player spread isn't really journalism. It's more a fun, mostly entertainment show with a bit of journalism thrown in. And I'm not really not a religion podcast. It's not a religion podcast and I'm also. I'm not into both sidesing things as well. I think if you say one thing, you don't have to have the other side talking back to it. It's like when we do an episode on climate change. I'm not gonna give equal time to climate change. Denier yeah, yeah, I feel a little bit like that that with this.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Kristen Said. I've been a longtime listener and was so excited for you to peek into the world of JWs. I was born and raised as a JW, baptized at the age of 13 and escaped around 18. I'm 43 now, which is my age. Kristen I had many stories and experiences that are wild to recall, but one thing I feel is extremely important to mention that wasn't spoken about in this episode was their shunning practices. I E. Disfellowshipping Disfellowshipping is a public act of shunning from family, the congregation, and anyone in affiliation with the organization. It's caused many to lose all they've ever known and even cost some their lives after not being able to cope all over things such as smoking or premarital sex. There's also one other disturbing policy called the two witness rule. Have you heard about this?

[C]

Rob from Comments yeah, basically if an

[A]

individual has experienced abuse, for example, that claim has no merit unless having been witnessed by at least two other JWs. This organization is also geared towards keeping the woman subservient. One example being that none are allowed to stand at the podium to give a talk or to lead a prayer unless with a head covering. See, I think the two witness thing, there's a lot of news articles about this in regards to child sexual abuse being covered up. If there's not these, this, this two people witnessing it, the whole thing is just ignored. So I think that's really important and something we missed.

[C]

So maybe, maybe part two at some point.

[A]

I'm into this. I'm overwhelmed by feedback really quickly in regards to calling San Francisco San Fran. Brigitte Rodin, great name. I believe Bridgetta is from New Zealand. Where I'm from, US listeners might hate to learn that there's a popular music venue in Wellington, our capital, called San Fran. It comes from the business that was its original building a massage parlor called the San Francisco Cisco Bath House. So many New Zealanders may say San Fran because I've been to that music venue is great.

[C]

So you're blaming the music venue now?

[A]

I blame the music venue for my inappropriate shortening of San Francisco.

[C]

So I need emails about the shortening direct to the music video instead of flight.

[A]

Whisper [e-mail] complain to the music venue. Great venue Georgette says hello. Rob and Bravid, you missed the opportunity to talk about Prince becoming a JW Ladder in life. Had no idea about this. Did you know this?

[C]

No.

[A]

Can you imagine Prince knocking on your door with pamphlets? It happened to a friend of mine, Bodyguards, limo, the whole bit.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

If that is story. If that story is true. Holy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's amazing. Imagine your musical hero turning up to

[C]

convert you not to their music was very high.

[A]

It'd be amazing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You're going to turn. Turn him down. Blows my mind. I love Prince. Very quickly, a fact check. Stephen wrote in on the recent train crashes show. A listener suggested bourbon. I love that topic. But they were incorrect. You don't have to be in certain parts of Kentucky to make a spirit labeled bourbon. The US government has recognized bourbon as a distinctive product of the US So it can be made anywhere in the US So apparently what I said a few weeks ago bull of it happens don't have to be in Kentucky. What was that?

[C]

It happens. It happens sometimes. Sometimes, yeah.

[A]

I've been known to be a flawed human being. Thanks for listening as always. Flightthisbreadchat gmail.com Very keen to hear your food truck stories again. If you want the dates and locations of our flight and spread meetups in the cities we're doing live shows in, come and join our Patreon. Patreon.com Flightless Bird Speaking of.

[C]

And we'll have an interview with Matteo I think on there soon. So go join us and Matteo. Yes please on Patreon.

[A]

Thanks for listening as always like and subscribe.

[C]

See you next week.