ICE Detention Center Visit

Summary

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Flightless Bird: ICE Detention Center Visit

Podcast Date: May 5, 2026
Host: David Farrier
Cohost: Rob
Guests: Rosabelle, Evalie’s mother Betty

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and investigative episode, David Farrier and Rob delve into one of their most emotionally charged topics yet: the experience of Evalie, a New Zealander detained by ICE in the US. Following up on Evalie’s story, previously covered on the podcast, the hosts document Rob’s visit to the Adelanto detention center in California, discuss the realities of ICE detention, illustrate systemic issues with both US and New Zealand bureaucracies, and examine the psychological toll on detainees and their families. The episode aims not just to report, but to reflect on community, displacement, and the uniquely American landscape of immigration enforcement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Public Perception and Fear Around Detention

• [01:05–06:40] The episode opens with a conversation about how Evalie’s detention is perceived in New Zealand, highlighting general anxiety about traveling to the US.
  • Quote [05:34, Rob]: "I think this story...has kind of reignited the fear around it coming here and being stuck in a similar situation."
  • The story is used as a warning, increasing wariness among non-citizens considering travel to the US.
  • The issue is framed as a form of “scare tactics” apparently meant to deter would-be immigrants and foreign residents.

2. The Visit to Adelanto:

• [07:24–12:46] David and Rob narrate their road trip to the remote detention facility in Adelanto, CA.
  • Describes the isolation of the site: “just roads and desert… it’s very desolate.”
  • Discussion of everyday American paradoxes—proximity of weed dispensaries (even while a marijuana charge is part of Evalie’s case), banks, post office ("normalcy amid carceral state").
• Quote [10:01, David]: "It's a bit on the nose when you consider one of the things they're holding over Evalie is some sort of weed charge… and then there's like a massive cannabis dispensary across the street."

3. Inside the Detention Center: Rob’s Account

• [12:46–23:10] Rob describes the intake process, interactions with staff, and the dissonant environment inside.
  • Notable for its prison-like features: razor wire, double fences, strict procedures, waiting rooms fixed on “Big Bang Theory.”
  • Describes Evalie's demeanor: “smiley, energetic, was happy to have a visitor and someone to talk to” but underneath, she “has been lied to about everything that was going to happen.”
  • Quote [15:19, Rob]: "She was just insistently lied to about everything… she told her mom and dad, ‘I’m gonna be out in 24 hours’…13 days in there [still no answers]."
  • “Inspirational” posters for detainees touting amenities and self-deportation options (i.e., "if you want to leave, we'll give you $2,600").
    • Quote [16:29, Rob]: "Within the facility, Evalie said they have posters up about self-deportation... you're likely signing some paper that says 'I'm not going to come back.'"

4. Life in Limbo

• [17:07–21:16] Explores psychological stressors for detainees—lack of timeline, uncertainty, group solidarity in hardship.
  • Differences between ICE detention and prison: In prison you have a sentence and know what to expect; in ICE, everything is unknown.
  • Quote [19:24, Rob]: "This is just a giant unknown for everyone that's there."
  • Small acts of community among detainees (saving food, making mascara as an act of emotional resilience).

5. Systemic Issues with US Immigration Enforcement

• [30:01–32:19] Reflections post-visit:
  • The deliberate hopelessness created by the system, incentivizing “self-deportation.”
  • Facilities are effectively prisons, operated by private companies like GEO Group—"They need those beds full to reach their quota."
  • Quote [31:38, Rob]: "It's the privatized prison company that is just hiring out these people to run it."
  • Detainees endure constant surveillance, lack privacy, and are often isolated from support systems due to facility location.

6. Legal Developments and Bureaucratic Limbo

• [33:13–38:25] Post-visit updates with Evalie’s mother, Betty.
  • Evalie had first appearance with a judge, without legal counsel, rescheduled for June 10th.
  • Persistent uncertainty—she still hasn’t been formally told the reason for her detention after weeks.
  • Past marijuana-related convictions being scrutinized (handled poorly by now-disbarred lawyer).
    • Quote [36:58, Betty]: "This lawyer has been disbarred. He's in jail for lying to clients…and the icing on top is that the year that he was charged was the year that Evalie went to court."
  • The legal team is trying to argue she was never properly informed of immigration consequences—a legal loophole.

7. Impact on Detainees and Families

• [42:59–44:39] Developing mental health challenges; logistical issues—Evalie worries about her apartment, car, dog, and job.
  • Quote [42:59, Betty]: "She tries to stay optimistic…sometimes it just wears on her and brings her down a bit."
  • The family attempts to provide stability and reassurance from the outside.

8. New Zealand Government Response: Or Lack Thereof

• [44:41–47:16] Discussion of New Zealand’s insufficient consular advocacy for Evalie.
  • Betty describes unresponsive and inefficient communication from New Zealand officials.
  • Quote [46:24, Betty]: "I went, are you meant to be helping Evalie? And he goes, yeah. I went, I don't see how this is helping her."
  • David critiques both the US and NZ governments, and points out possible racial biases in whose cases get consular attention.

9. Reflections and Moving Forward

• [49:36–51:21] Both hosts reflect on the intentionally slow, demoralizing procedural pace.
  • Quote [50:36, Rob]: "It feels like [the system is] intentionally slow in trying to kind of break their will completely."
  • Listeners are updated that there likely won’t be progress until at least June 10.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• David [10:01]: "It's a bit on the nose…one of the things they're holding over Evalie is some sort of weed charge…then there's a massive dispensary across the street."
• Rob [16:29]: "Within the facility, Evalie said they have posters up about self deportation…they'll give you $2,600, and you can self-deport."
• Rob [19:24]: "In prison, you know what the next steps are…but this is just a giant unknown."
• Betty [36:58]: "This lawyer has been disbarred. He's in jail for lying to clients… the icing on top is that the year that he was charged was the year that Evalie went to court."
• David [31:38]: "From my perspective on the outside…that flag did really capture my attention…same size as the American flag, a flag of the GEO Group. It’s very...the flag of a company that needs those beds full."
• Rob [50:36]: "It feels like intentionally slow in trying to kind of break their will completely."
• Betty [46:24]: "I went, are you meant to be helping Evalie? And he goes, yeah. I went, I don't see how this is helping her."
• David [47:35]: "New Zealand is currently led by three…quite sort of annoying men…Chris Luxon is the Prime Minister…Winston Peters is [Foreign Affairs]. And they've both done absolutely nothing."

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• [01:05–03:09]: Intro to Evalie’s case and context, shifting the mood from light to serious.
• [07:24–12:46]: Rob and David’s journey to the detention facility.
• [12:46–23:10]: Detailed description of the intake and visit with Evalie inside.
• [30:01–32:19]: Discussion about private prison industry and psychological impact.
• [33:13–38:25]: Legal complications and interview with Evalie’s mother, Betty.
• [42:59–44:39]: How Evalie is coping emotionally, worries about her life collapsing outside.
• [44:41–47:16]: Frustration and critique of New Zealand government response.
• [49:36–51:21]: Reflection on heartless bureaucratic delays.

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Tone and Style

• Empathetic, personal, and at times bleakly humorous: David’s outsider perspective and New Zealander warmth infuse the episode with humanity even as the content becomes increasingly heavy.
• Conversational candor: Both hosts oscillate between deadpan, genuine frustration, and moments of comic relief, allowing the audience to feel the full spectrum of emotion.

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Key Takeaways

• US ICE detention, especially in remote private prisons, is structured to be confusing, isolating, and demoralizing even to longtime legal residents.
• The bureaucratic limbo is compounded by lack of legal counsel, poor communication, and a system that appears to incentivize “self-deportation”.
• Both the American and New Zealand governments were depicted as largely indifferent—with significant critique of the NZ consulate’s inaction, especially given Evalie’s nationality and the racialized selectivity of diplomatic advocacy.
• The episode gives a human face to the experience—Evalie, her mother and support network, as well as others inside detention—focusing on emotional and psychological impact.
• Listeners are encouraged to support via the family's GoFundMe and are promised future updates.

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Listener Information

Additional updates will be provided as Evalie’s case develops.
GoFundMe Link: Referenced in show notes to assist Evalie and her family.

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For questions, feedback, or to share your own insights, email the show at FlightThisPro.chatmail.com. For bonus content and after-dark episodes, visit the show’s Patreon.

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Transcript

[A]

David.

[B]

Hi, Roosevelt. What a delight to be talking to you.

[A]

It's been so long since we've had a conversation.

[B]

Give me one fact about New Zealand today.

[A]

Well, thankfully, after, like, a really cold spell and lots of flooding, it's a really lovely summer. Well, summery day. That's the main batch defining my day.

[B]

That's so nice. It's like after Noah got off the ark, after all the storm and God or Jesus put a big rainbow in the sky. It's a bit like that, isn't it?

[A]

That's exactly what came to mind for me as well, Noah. And it was the music awards last night. The tapes.

[B]

Oh, the big night. The Grammys of the New Zealand music scene. Who was the big. Who was the big winner? Not to demeanor. I mean, it is an amazing night. Who was the big winner? Rosabelle, can you tell us?

[A]

Marlon Williams won the big main award.

[B]

Oh, talented, Hot. He's got it all, doesn't he, Marlon?

[A]

He does have it all.

[B]

And now he's got a big win under his belt. He's unstoppable. I don't know why I'm in this mood today. It's. We're doing. We're doing quite a bleak episode today. It's about Evely, the New Zealander in ice detention. Me and Rob go to visit her. Um, I'm just wondering on the ground. I know you're not across every element of the news, but what's the feeling in New Zealand about her? Is it talked about or is it kind of this distant thing? Does no one care?

[A]

I think people definitely are aware of it as being covered in New Zealand media as well. And a lot of my friends on social posting about it. I mean, I think there was already a prevailing anxiety about traveling to the U.S. yeah, yeah. I mean, it's been one of the main feelings when I've talked about traveling to Texas recently. Everyone's been like, why did you go to America?

[B]

Ah, yeah, right. They're like, rosabelle, what the hell? And you said, I went to America to appear on one of the best podcasts out there, Flightless Bird. I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country ticket. Now, last week, we brought you the story of Evalie, a New Zealander who's been living in beautiful Wisconsin since she was 6, after her father was brought over by Wisconsin Central Railway to be a train driver. Evalie had come and gone from the US Ever since. But when returning nearly four weeks ago, she was stopped by ICE and then sent off to an ICE detention facility where she's been locked up ever since. Well, lots of updates over the last week, which is why we want to update you today. She's had her first appearance in front of a judge. And Rob went to meet with Evalie, the first friendly face she'd seen from the outside since being locked up. So lots to talk about. It gets pretty weird and we'll try to make sense of it all. So grip that American green card tight and realize that it doesn't really mean all that much anymore because this is the ICE detention centre. Episode.

[A]

Flagness Flagness Flightless bird Touchdown in America I'm a fly this bird touchdown in America.

[B]

Hi, Rob. How are you?

[C]

Good. David, how are you?

[B]

Good. It is about 8:30pm On a Wednesday night, the 29th, as you record this. We went. We drove together.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

On a Friday. Which now seems. It seems like a long time ago.

[C]

Yeah, it was less than a week, but it seems a long time ago.

[B]

Why is that happening? Is it because we're busy or the world's is sort of just a lot of noise?

[C]

I think it's our busyness.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We've done a lot since then.

[B]

There's been a lot.

[C]

This is our third recording since going there.

[B]

Yeah. Because we do. We do Patreon recordings. We do episode recordings.

[C]

We did a nest session.

[B]

We did a nest session as well, which is coming out soon. I mean, it's good to be busy. It's just. It's crowded.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

It's a lot.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know that there's a whole lot to cover before we jump into this doc. Since the dock is kind of the catch up completely on this one, I will say I have a friend that I known since I was 18. He had kind of a similar situation to Everly.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

However, he Left America almost 10 years ago now because he found out he was not here legally.

[B]

Oh, so he had that revelation whilst living in America.

[C]

Yes. But grew up here.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And he lives in New Zealand now. And he's like kind of waiting for that window to be up where he can come back to America and. Yeah, he's been following this story because he lives in New Zealand now and.

[B]

Yeah. And I know who you're talking about. And we've talked about doing an episode. Cause it's kind of like a reverse flightless bird thing. But his situation is so sensitive. It's not something you want to blast to the airwaves.

[C]

Yeah. But his whole family's here. And like it was this countdown to when he felt like it would be safe to come return turn here without any repercussions potentially. But I think this story I talked with them yesterday has kind of reignited.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The fear around it coming here and being stuck in a similar situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Which I think is really just speaks largely to what the intent behind all of this is. Just scare tactics for people trying to come here that this small group of Americans are saying they don't want.

[B]

Yeah. If you're any kind of outsider, you're not welcome here anymore.

[C]

Pretty much. And these horror stories are just not necessarily that they're happening to every single person, but they're being used as like an example of why. Why don't even bother to come here. Because this could happen to you.

[B]

I hadn't thought about it in that way until you said it. And you get case studies from almost every country. Right. There's been the Canadian. That shit's happened to New Zealanders. There was an Australian kid. It's like there are case studies all over the place and yeah. There are warnings.

[C]

Yeah. And I mean I was kind of having the conversation with him that I don't, I don't think it's happening on every single flight and every single airport and every single city.

[B]

No.

[C]

From every single country.

[B]

But when it happens, you certainly hear about it. And when it happens it's horrific and awful.

[C]

Yeah. And it doesn't make it any less scary.

[B]

Completely.

[C]

And not to diminish people that it is happening to as well because clearly.

[B]

Totally.

[C]

We were speaking to someone today that it did happen to.

[B]

Yeah. But I know, I know exactly what you mean. It's like a random, almost assortment of very spread out individuals. And when it happens, it's loud. You hear about it. And that offers a warning to everybody else and makes everyone freaked out. Like your buddy who wants to come back to the States.

[C]

Yeah. To see his family.

[B]

This is friggin family here. Okay. We recorded a bunch of audio when we went to visit Evely and I'm going to play that now.

[C]

Yeah. Let's take a field trip.

[B]

Rob and I have been driving for about two hours to a place we've never been before, a place we'd never even heard of. It was a windy, hilly drive. It all felt pretty desolate on the way. No gas stations, no McDonald's, just roads and desert.

[C]

Do you want to describe the town we're in right now?

[B]

The town? There's not a lot here. It's kind of like going to Joshua Tree. Or something. It's very deserty and there's two big strip malls.

[C]

Yeah, it's Adelanto Atalanto, California. Yeah, we drove through a lot of desert and mountainy California landscapes to get here and we're just kind of like, pop, there's the town.

[B]

I called the facility yesterday just to double check what facility it was because there's a men's and a woman's and so got the right facility and I double checked because I'd heard from Eberly's family that there were certain visiting hours and they'd sent through a little roster. So I double checked that we had the right time and so the window is 3 to 6pm and when I called, the guy was relatively helpful. He was sort of surprisingly so. He sounded kind of upbeat and I said, is there anything we need to do? Does Rob need to be on the visitors list or anything? And he just said, no turn up as long as he is wearing shoes and is not in ripped jeans. And I said, sir, I think we've already got a problem.

[C]

Yeah, you asked if I wanted to borrow clothes and you didn't have anything that didn't match that description. Description.

[B]

So yeah, Rob, we've got ourselves together. Rob is looking very presentable and yeah, we don't really know what to expect, I guess I drop you off in the car park, you wander in and just see how it all goes and you know, Evalie's family has sent through a bunch of little messages and things to pass on. And the weird thing is in this is that you're the first visitor she's had from the outside because she's in the middle of nowhere. Her family is either in Wisconsin or New Zealand. And so, yeah, it's kind of an odd thing. It's an odd thing. All of this is odd.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We're turning into Rancho Road and the first thing we can see is a massive cannabis dispensary. Like big, like, big. Like a Chipotle store or something.

[C]

Yeah, big green, giant yellow lettering and there appears to be a competitive dispensary across the street as well as you get a little further down, which is,

[B]

yeah, a bit on the nose when you consider one of the things that they're holding over Everly is some sort of weed charge that was taken care of a long time ago. It's just so, so silly that. And yeah, the government. The government issuing too many green cards, God forbid. And then there's like normalcy, like a post office right there. It's like normal things post Office, bank, but mostly just desert.

[C]

Are you planning to just kind of monologue the whole time I'm gone? The car?

[B]

Yeah. I will do a podcast monologue. Observing things, deep thoughts about the topic in life. No, it's weird. It's like. It's funny. I. Yeah, it's funny having you trotting in there and I can't go in. I'd like to go in with you. But also, I guess I'm grateful I don't have to have the anxiety of wandering into this fucking place. So I think, yeah, thanks for going in. It's a. It's a weird thing to do.

[C]

Yeah. Instead you get to pass the anxiety off to me.

[B]

I do. It's the best thing to do with anxiety is to give it to somebody else. Okay, we're gonna drive in. I'm gonna put the microphone down. As a checkpoint approaches. We don't particularly want anyone asking what we're doing with a microphone, so we throw it under the seat for a bit. Alright, so we've just parked up in the east wing, which is the woman's wing, and I guess this is where I bid you farewell, Robert.

[C]

Yep. I'll see you in a little bit.

[B]

This is me doing my monologue bit, I guess. I watch Rob stroll off into what I can only describe as a prison. There are multiple big fences adorned with copious amounts of razor wire. It's stinking hot. Sitting in the car, and I'm reminded that we're in the middle of the Mojave Desert. After 30 minutes of waiting, I get out of the car and walk around a bit. I take in the fences and the barbed wire. The men's facility is off to my left. The woman's is in front of me. It's painted blue. Some prison staff come and go, some of them clutching their little bags of lunch. Some families also come and go, ushered in and out. And I noticed three flags proudly flying on the roof. There's a Californian state flag. I know that one. There's the American flag. I know that one by now. And then there's another flag, the same size as the others. The flag of the GEO Group. GEO is the largest private prison operator in the US and they'll be making a shit ton out of this place. Eventually, after what feels like a very long time, Rob emerges and my monologue ends. How did it go? You were in there for about an hour and a half. What happens when you walk in there?

[C]

Yeah, so you walk down a big long fence, signs for visitors, and then one direction Prohibited all over. And then getting to the visitor center, there is signs everywhere. No phones or recording. Go to the desk. And probably the man you talk to. Very helpful, friendly man. Asked who I was there to see, took my passport, gave me a locker key to put all my electronics in, and said to wait. Like a doctor's waiting room.

[B]

You wait in a waiting room.

[C]

Big Bang Theory's on the TV in the corner.

[B]

Rosabelle's favorite show. Literally. Yeah.

[C]

Makes sense. And two women, man and woman. And then two lawyers. Clearly, lawyers are sitting there talking, frustrated. Obviously, they're talking about judges and how awful this one judge was and sending back cases and this and that. And then I overheard the other woman say that she'd been waiting there two hours already to talk to someone and that this is typical. And the other one was there for four hours. These are the lawyers. But a few minutes later, they called in visitors. So it was very quick. Go through a metal detector, and then very much prison. Show your visitor badge. There's five of us. Woman buzzes One door, it shuts, buzzes the other door. Wait in this hallway for the visiting person to come let you into the room. We did. And it was chairs and tables kind of scattered around. There's two other women in there aside from Everly.

[B]

So it was like little tables and chairs.

[C]

Yeah. Not the most comfortable chairs. Small, tiny tables.

[B]

And was Everly waiting for you when you walked in?

[C]

Yeah, Everly was in there waiting, and two other women were waiting. She was great. She smiley, energetic, was happy to have a visitor and someone to talk to. I had to give her the context of you. It was just this Looney Tune. She said her family did say that of all the stuff that they've read, yours was the best representation of what had happened and wrote about it in a meaningful way, but also kept saying that you need to be careful. It was pretty much David. That David. Guy's gotta be careful. She talked me through again what happened when she got to lax.

[B]

Pretty much similar to how her mom had described it.

[C]

Yeah. And just insistently lied to about everything that was going to happen. And even by the time she got to where she was going, got her phone, was able to call her mom. She told her mom and dad, I'm gonna be out in 24 hours. They said, I'll talk to someone. You guys just fly home. I'll figure out getting back. Don't miss your flight over this. I'll book a new one.

[B]

Yeah. So, like, she was feeling positive in there that this would get resolved.

[C]

Yeah. She.

[B]

That's what she'd been told. Yeah.

[C]

No reason to think otherwise. And still has not talked to anyone. This is 13 days in there, still has not talked. She's supposed to talk to a judge on Tuesday. She said it's gonna be at least another month until they have everything they need.

[B]

Fucking hell.

[C]

And she said that there's posters and stuff in the waiting room too. In the waiting room, there's these posters on the wall that are. They're almost like inspirational posters, but also promoting the amenities of the facility. So there was like lounge with TVs, yard, doctors, medication rooms.

[B]

Yeah, look how great this facility is.

[C]

Y. Yes, very bizarre. So within the facility, Everly said that they have posters up about self deportation. You can just do that if you pretty much, no hope. I'm just going to go back. They'll give you $2,600 and you can self deport. You're likely signing some paper that says, like, I'm not going to come back.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So at that point it's like, I just want to get out of here and I'm gonna do this. She said that she probably only has three months in her before she wants to decide to do that.

[B]

That's gonna be my question. She's obviously like a very bubbly, smiley person by default, but how long can someone like that just be waiting in a. Cause that's the thing. It's a limbo. It's not having any certainty about anything. Right?

[C]

Yeah. And no answers. And everyone in there is like that. No one knows what's going on. They're in prison jumpsuits. She told me it was Everly and two other women in the visiting room. So there was a Russian woman talking to two family members in an orange jumpsuit, which Everly was in an orange jumpsuit. That means non violent criminal. And then the other woman in there was in a red jumpsuit. And red means violent criminal for violent offense. She said that everyone in there, there are some tensions, but people are taking care of each other. She said she slept the first two days and woke up and people were making sure that her food had been piled up and told her she needed to have water and that there's been some annoying 46 people in there. Like it's roommates and people are annoyed with each other. There's the thing called a kite. You can write a note, submit that as a complaint, a complaint box, and then someone will maybe get moved. So her room's 46. They've got different sections of the women's Facility. She thinks there's about 200. And then the building next to them is the men's facility, which has over 1000 is what they think. The yard situation. When you're walking into the visitor center, you can kind of see over to the right, the yard. The men's have like a big soccer field and are kind of overlooking this vast desert area and a bunch of workout equipment. She said the women's yard is situated between two buildings. So it's very bleak. Not like being outside. They're allowed out there twice a day, but the second time is usually too hot and gross out there. So in the morning she likes to go out there. There's an old woman that she's friends with and spends time with.

[B]

Did she talk to, like, the fact that other people know about her situation? The media in New Zealand or the media in America? Like, was she aware that people are, are aware of her story?

[C]

She knows, but I think she's got other things on her mind and she's

[B]

just trying to sort her shit out.

[C]

Well, not even that. I think she's just mentally trying to cope with being in there without knowing anything. She was talking about how, like a prison, when you go into prison, you know you are going there, you're there for a reason. You know what next steps are, how long you're going to be there. This is just a giant unknown for everyone that's there. She said since she's been here the last two weeks, seven women have left. Two got habeas corpus, which means they were able to go back to the States where they were. The others got deported or self deported. Two self deported and then the rest got deported. But even when you decide to self deport or get deported, she said, you have to wait. It's unknown when you leave because if a plane's going to Salvador, they need enough to fill a plane.

[B]

So still limbo even when you're out of limbo.

[C]

Yeah. And there's women in there that have been there for a year, like months. Months and months and don't have people nearby. A woman from Florida that was flown to here and stopped a bunch of times on the way to pick up more people. And she gets out, she doesn't know how she's gonna get back to Florida.

[B]

Did she want anything?

[C]

I mean, I think they're still figuring out the lawyer thing. I think that's a way that we can help. I was like, is there anything you want me to pass on to your family? And she's like, I talk to them all the time I talk to them almost more than did before. Yeah. So, I mean, I think the communication to her family and people like she's connected there, but I think it is still this just the fuck is going on and they're worse than prisoners here because they're just in limbo.

[B]

Did you get, you said like when you walked in, she was bubbly. Did you get a feeling overall whether she has hope for staying and keeping this life in America or she's thinking, I have no idea, or get me to New Zealand. Do you have a sense of where her head's at?

[C]

She wants to stay here. She has a life here. But I think best case, it's like three to six months. In her mind that she's going to be here.

[B]

Yeah. But in my mind it feels like maybe two more weeks or something. You know, it just stretches out.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I think at minimum she was like, Tuesday, I will talk to a judge and then a month later, then maybe we'll have things sorted and in a situation that we can make progress and I can have an answer. I would imagine the hope is hard to keep in there. And I think that's mostly what she needs, I think is some sort of hope that there is a way to get out.

[B]

Right. You're right. Though that hadn't really struck me. The fact that in prison, you know, where you're there, there's a timeline, kind of, there's rules. Here it is just like a weird purgatory of like nothing.

[C]

Yes. And she did explain to me. So there's the prisoners, there's a middle group of people that were green, and then there's the upper people, which are ice. She said the people in the middle are very nice. Like the visitor lady. Like they're not part of ice, they are contractors that are here. She kept saying, the woman, the one running the visitor center, very nice. But it's when the ice guys in the suits come, that's when trouble comes. They're the ones that do not have respect for the people in there. Treat them like they're not humans. Yeah.

[B]

And how did it wrap up? Do you have time? Is it just like you have your chat and you leave? How did it wrap up with her?

[C]

We just sat there and talked for a while and then we got a 10 minute warning.

[B]

So it's like a timed section? Yeah, was like half an hour.

[C]

I went in about three. Probably got into the actual visitation room at 3:30 and then out at 4:30. So an hour slot.

[B]

How did it compare with what you pictured, like, how does it. You've described it really well, but, like, how did it differ? Or was it sort of what you expected it to be?

[C]

The actual setting was as I expected. It was easy to go in, meet with her, talk with her. There wasn't a long wait. It was not a long line. There was unfortunately not a ton of other people waiting to meet. Like, if 200 people are in there and visitations on Fridays once a week, and I saw two other people that were kidnapped and detained talking to the family, that means there's 197 that weren't able to meet with someone. That part feels bleak and a little more depressing.

[B]

What is all doing? We are far away from anything. Like, it's a mission to get here. Even if you're in Los Angeles, it's a mission.

[C]

Yeah. She was very grateful that we drove two hours. She was like, I can't believe you guys drove two hours. And I was like, car is nothing. That's, like, the least we can drive to make sure you're okay and that you have someone that you know is trying to look out for you out here. She knew she was here on a green card and was careful. She was outspoken about Palestine. But she had friends that were like, do you want to go to this ICE march? And she was like, I. I want to stay out of trouble. Like, I understand my status here. Is. Is this. And, like, she. She wasn't causing trouble. She wasn't stirring shit. She did tell me when she was, we heard the story of the ICE agent at the airport trying to get her to sign that paperwork. And they had a food basket, and they were like, just help yourself while you wait. And she waited five hours, and she said she just tore through. They're like, well, they said, help myself. And she just ate everything. And then they came in, and they were like, you can't eat all of this. And she was like, what'd they tell me? To help myself. Like, I'm gonna keep eating.

[B]

Five hours. Good on her. Fuck yes.

[C]

Yeah. Five hours. I'm gonna keep eating snacks.

[B]

Oh, fucking hell. I mean, it is. I even like you. I know you're coming out, but it's like. It's even weird seeing you disappear in there and, like, with no contact. That's why I texted you. It's like, it's an hour and a half. It's like, yeah. It's like, not a nice feeling to see anyone going there. Yeah.

[C]

It was like being in a prison. I mean, we're looking at this map. There's a bail and immigration bonds place next to a weed dispensary. She said the hardest part is when people are brought in. People are coming in under distress and emotional and they don't know what's going on. And there's a younger woman from India in there with her that is crying all the time. It's 20 to oldest being in their 50s. And one day the Indian girl asked her like how are you not crying? And she's like I am, I'm just doing it when I'm in the bathroom and not letting them see this. And Everlease said that she's been making her own mascara because if she cries it burns her eyes so she wears it so that she can't cry. And the Indian girl was like can you put some of the mascara on me? And she did her makeup and has just seen her like fanning her eyes trying to stop crying. So it's a community in there and everyone's going through this together and no one knows what the fuck's going on.

[B]

Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Aura Frames. Now this Mother's Day frame. What makes your mom special with Aura Frames? I got my mum an aura frame and she loves it. I update it weekly so she gets photos from me here in Los Angeles and she can feel like she is in touch with her favorite son. And with your frame you get free unlimited storage. You can add as many photos and videos as well as you want. You can pre upload photos before it ships to your mum. Keep adding to it from anywhere and anytime and you can personalize it. You can add a message to your aura frame before it arrives. You can also get it in a gift box. Every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag and it's a top rated app. Reach number one in the App Store on Christmas Day in 2025. So make Mother's Day special with Aura Frames named number one by Wirecutter. You can save on the gifts mums love by visiting auraframes.com for a limited time. Listeners can get $25 off their best selling Carver matte frame with code Burrd. That's a U R A frames.com promo code bird. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. Support for Flightless Bird is brought to you by Bombus. Now the springtime Thor is finally here. Flowers are blooming, days are longer. We're saying yes to More plans and finally getting outside. We're running, we're walking, we're moving again. And it's the perfect time to upgrade your everyday go to with Bombas.

[C]

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[B]

That's B O M bas.combird code bird at checkout. So as we record this, that was last week. We went. Any further reflections on what that was like in there?

[C]

I mean it really just seems clear that they are trying to make people feel hopeless.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

They want to break them down, leave them in the dark, make it seem like they're going to get stuck there and self deport like the fact that they're paying for flights, giving them money and sending them off, like that's how you get out.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Don't, don't go through like the process of trying to fight to be here. Just get out.

[B]

And you know, when you consider Italy, she's been there for 30 years in Wisconsin. She's got a dog, she's got family, she's got friends.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

She's got a job she loves. Yeah. And posters now that she's looking at every day saying hey, get out of here.

[C]

We don't want you here. Leave.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, and you know, it's not as simple as, I'll go back to New Zealand. She doesn't have a life in New Zealand. You know, her life is in America.

[C]

That family's here. She's got siblings expecting kids. Like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it's.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, the facility, it is prison. Like for all intents and purposes. It's. I mean, it's barbed wire everywhere, two layers of gates, patrols going around, it's all of that.

[C]

So everyone in the facility is wearing the GEO uniforms like that. People helping at the front desk. That's the woman running the visitation. Uhhuh. Like those are the nice. The ones that aren't treating them like shit. It's the privatized prison company that is just hiring out these people to run it.

[B]

Yeah. And you know, and from my perspective on the outside, because there wasn't much to do out there, that flag did really capture my attention. You've got this giant American flag, giant Californian flag, giant. And exactly the same size, a GEO flag. It's very. Yeah. The flag of a company, a private prison company that will be making money off all of this. Like they need those beds full to reach their quota to make their money.

[C]

Yeah. And she did say so there's bathrooms in the room or in the area that they're staying and it's just curtains instead of doors. And then there's a bubble where there's a guard that's just watching them at all times.

[B]

So it's that constant surveillance. Always have eyes on, you know, alone time.

[C]

And then there's also guard that's sitting in there with them 24 7. She's. Yeah. That like is making conversation with them, like not just sitting there like kind of hanging out, but it's that thing

[B]

of never getting any time to yourself in any way. You're with people all the time and there's always a guard there.

[C]

Well, and it's terrorized, traumatized women in there too. And I think every time new people come in, they're dealing with like, what is going on? I don't know why I'm here.

[B]

You know, I think that young 20 year old that came in that you spoke about near the end is a perfect example of that. There's new people coming in, just incredibly upset, being comforted by the other woman that are in there as they try and figure out what the hell is going on.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, it's awful.

[B]

So since we went, there's been a few updates. I talked to Betty, Evely's mum, a few days ago now. And the first thing we Talked about is the fact that since we visited, Evalie has had her first appearance in front of a judge.

[A]

Yeah. So Evely went in front of the judge today, and she said, he was just so rude to everybody there. And I said, you know, and I went, you know, some people in positions of power feel like they need to abuse that. Yeah. And I said, that's to be expected. And I said, you just need to, like, just take it. And she goes, yeah, I just keep quiet. And I was polite, and I answered, you know, the questions he was asking. And so, because she didn't have legal counsel today, it's actually gonna be June 10th as her next court appearance.

[B]

So, yeah, Evalie is gonna be in there until at least June 10th. At the moment.

[C]

Still no, like, real answers to why they're holding her.

[B]

That was my next question about what is going on exactly. And why they're holding her.

[C]

Yeah, because that. That was. I mean, what I asked her right away was, do you have any answers? Any. And it was, like, no idea. She has suspicions of what it is. But the fact that no one, two weeks being detained in a prison, no one has told you why you're there, and you can't even ask, seems like a human rights violation to me.

[B]

And the thing is, if you remember when she arrived at LAX from her time away in New Zealand, the thing they called up her on immediately was, you have had too many green cards issued to you by the government. That was just an excuse to sort of get her aside, by the sounds of it. Then they saw the flag that she had a previous conviction 10 years ago to do with the marijuana. And that's what I talked to about Betty next, because that's where they're looking now.

[A]

So I asked him if I could tell you, and he goes, sure. So he was a prosecutor, and he's looked at Emily's record. And so her first, she had two offenses for drugs. The first one was she had paraphernalia, which was a misdemeanor. And then she was traveling in a car that was pulled over, and there was marijuana in the car, not necessarily hers, but because she's in the vehicle with it, it's all of his, you know, and he's like, I'm just amazed that this has happened. He goes, paraphernalia, and then this makes it a felony. He goes. He goes, we gotta look at that. And he said that the misdemeanor wasn't even listed in the court case. So he goes, there's some holes in there that he can Poke at. And then he said, the next thing is, in 2010, there was a law passed because there was something. Something had happened with an immigrant who wasn't told what would happen to his immigration status if he pled guilty. So there was a law passed that every judge and every lawyer has to tell their client, if they're an immigrant, what would happen to the immigration status. And it has to be told that in court. And the lawyer has to notify, you know, the client. This lawyer never notified Everly, and it was never announced in court. And so the lawyer says, oh, I'm going to dig up. He's looking for the transcript because he's going to look through it. But he. He told us to ask Evely. And Evely goes, no, but the lawyer did ask me, what's your greatest worry? And she said, I'm scared to be. I'll be deported. And he told her, you don't have to worry about that. It's going to be fine with me here. You're not. You're not going to have to worry about that.

[B]

Yeah. Incredible. Yeah. Bad advice, right? Or inaccurate advice?

[A]

Inaccurate advice. But the funny thing, the lawyer sends me this email and he goes, this is the attorney that he had. And we clicked on the link, and it was a link to the post Crescent. This lawyer has been disbarred. He's in jail for lying to clients and allow and getting them to plead to a higher charge and forging a judge's signature.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

And he goes, the icing on top is that the year that he was charged was the year that he. That ever went to court.

[B]

So all that was happening at the same time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, look, don't want to get too into the weeds, ha ha. Of like, what's going on here. But it's like, finally I do a pun and it seems inappropriate.

[C]

Yeah, you gotta know when to do that.

[B]

You gotta know when to do one. You're right. So not to get into it too much, but essentially they have a lawyer now, which is great. The lawyer is looking back at what happened in this court case 10 years ago, has found that Evalie got pretty terrible advice back then about what this meant when she pled and what it meant for her immigration status wasn't informed. And so they're sort of looking, I think, at that old thing that happened 10 years ago, so that when they go in front of a judge in June, they can kind of present exactly what happened.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Why? It was somewhat dicey because this lawyer is now, you know, her legal counsel back then is now disbarred. I've seen the headline. He's like long gone. But I think the great thing is they have a lawyer who's deeply engaged and looking at exactly what advice she was given 10 years ago, what she pled to, what that means, and certainly just reinforcing that. Evalie had no idea this would have any influence on her immigration status and her green card status. It was like dealt with. It was done. She could come and go on a green card as she pleased. Nothing changed. She's been in and out of the country since, and there's been no problems until this particular instance where they pull her aside and go, hey, something's flagged here. The next thing I talked to Betty about is how she's feeling about all this because obviously she's gonna be in there for more weeks. She's there all of maybe. And then she's only appearing in early June. So she's going to be in there for a while. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Pesty. Now, I don't know about you, but doing something myself around the house, my own DIY project feels so, so satisfying. Whether it's like fixing a tap or putting a shelf up, doing it yourself feels so, so good. And when it comes to bugs in your house, then Pesti feels very similar to other DIY projects. It's the best way. If you're tired of big pest control companies knocking on your door, being on your property each month doing their thing, then why don't you sub it out with Pesti? When you order pesti, you get a kit and that includes a pro grade pesticide. That's the same stuff the pros use. You get a sprayer, a mixing bag, gloves and instructions you can complete in less than 10 minutes. It's easy. It's affordable. Pesti's do it yourself pest control system is so, so good. With Pesti, you can get started at just $35 per treatment with a customized plan based on your location, bugs and climate. With the DIY kit, there are no strangers in your house or appointments to make time for. It's you doing it all yourself. Pesti gets rid of over 100 types of bugs, including TMI for me roaches. Thank God for pesti. It also offers a 100% bug free guarantee or your money back. If the bugs don't go away, you'll get a full refund. And again, the kit includes a Sprayer, a mixing bag, pesticide gloves and instructions you can complete in under 10 minutes. Keep the bugs away with pesti. Go to pesti.combird for an extra 10% off your order. That's P-E-S-T-I-E.combird for an extra 10 percent off. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Helix. Now, Helix has been a sponsor of our show right from the beginning and there's a reason for that. Their mattresses are just really great. I have a midnight luxe mattress and I love it because it helps with my dicey old man back. I love sleeping on my Helix mattress and it has over 20 mattress models you can choose from to find the perfect model for you. So whether you're just upgrading from your old mattress or maybe you're having something entirely new, I really recommend Helix because a good night's rest sets you up for a really great day. And yeah, why wouldn't you invest in your sleep? We spend so much time sleeping, why not make it a good sleep? And a study they ran found that 82% of those involved saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle while sleeping on a Helix mattress. What else is good about Helix? Well, free shipping and seamless delivery. It delivers your mattress straight to your door with free shipping in the US and you get a 120 night sleep trial with a limited lifetime warranty. You get seamless returns and exchanges. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. And it's also the most awarded mattress brand tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. So go to helixleep.combird for 27% off site wide exclusive for Flightless Bird listeners. That's helixsleep.combird for 27 off site wide. Helixsleep.combird. How's Everly feeling about this? Because obviously, you know, it's still a time, a period that she has to spend in that facility, in that prison. How's she feeling?

[A]

She's pretty. It's hard. It's hard for her. You know, like she calls us and she tries to stay optimistic. You know, we have to kind of buoy her up some days. Other days she's, you know, she's up and down. I, I guess, you know, sometimes it just, things wear on her and then kind of brings her down a bit. Last, her last meltdown was, you know, she's worried about her dog, her apartment, her car payments, you know, all these things. And you know, we, we just had to tell her that anything on the outside is what. Is for us to take care of. And we will, you know, we'll take care of it. She just has to worry about what's going on inside and just worry about herself and keeping herself together and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so.

[B]

Yeah, that's the weird thing, right. Your life goes on without you, but she has a job. I'm wondering. I didn't think to talk to Betty at the time, but what is happening with her job? How long does she keep that for before they're like, we've got to let you go?

[C]

Especially if she's being wrongfully held.

[B]

Yeah. And in limbo. We don't know how long. I mean.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Hoping that June 10th is the date that something happens and she can get out of there, but there's no given at all that that will be the case.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, it seems like June 10th, like, just when the timeline can start completely.

[B]

When you're in front of the judge

[C]

again, when you get a date in two months to.

[B]

Actually, at least she has a lawyer now.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's, like, the one good thing in all of this. Finally, the thing I wanted to talk to Betty about was whether there was any help from New Zealand at all. Because, you know, Everly's been living in the States for 30 years. She's still a New Zealand citizen. She hasn't got citizenship here in the States. So I was curious, is New Zealand being at all helpful in getting her out of there?

[C]

Yeah, because if you're traveling to another country and you get put into prison, you. I would hope that there'd be some help from embassies.

[B]

You would hope so?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I always have that in the back of my head that something goes horribly wrong for Dave Ferrier. Call the New Zealand embassy. You saw them in, like, Flight of the Concords. They had Murray working in the consulate office. Surely they'll help. And has there been any real outreach from MFAD of the consulate or anything like that?

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Anything real there. Like, any emails or any contact of any kind of.

[A]

So they.

[B]

Sorry, I don't. I don't mean to work you up about this.

[A]

I just try. Like, they irritate me so much.

[B]

Yeah, you want to be. You don't want to explode. You just want to be.

[A]

I don't. I just want to be. Just articulate about this. So Emily tried calling them several times. So she's. Since she's been in something, there's a lump that's developed in her back. So she's been asking for medical help. Right. They're not giving it then they're not doing anything about that. So she's been calling the consulate and they have not been returning her calls. So Reed and my daughter gets on there and she's calling them. My turn is next. So finally someone, she's talking to somebody and he goes, oh, you know, we've been trying to call her but she doesn't, she hasn't been able to answer. And Readon's like, how are you doing that? You know, if you can't reach her then maybe you should go and visit her because that's, that's part of your job, you know. And he goes, well, you know, and we've been. So they called maybe last week or the week before to see how we were.

[B]

Yeah, not great. Not great.

[A]

I went, I don't. I went, are you meant to be helping Evelyn? And he goes, yeah. I went, I don't see how this is helping her. So I don't, I don't know, I just. Maybe it's because the New Zealand consulate has no teeth and this, you know, they can't do too much.

[B]

Get it. Yeah. Get involved. But there's been no offer of. No, like no offers of legal help or anything sort of specific and real nothing.

[A]

No offers of help. No offers. And then, you know, you look at the hours and it's nine to three.

[B]

Yeah. Pretty short, lazy day, isn't it?

[A]

And I know New Zealanders, they're going to want their lunch break and they're going to want, you know, morning and

[B]

afternoon tea and a really, a really stupid question. But nothing from Winston Peters or Christopher Luxon or anyone like that?

[A]

No, nothing from Winston. I didn't, I don't expect there to be.

[B]

So I can hear you saying, rob, who the hell is Christopher Luxon and who's Winston Peters? I mean this is like, there's this idea, I think, that New Zealand is still governed by Jacinda Ardern, who is this incredible female leader we had for quite a long time.

[C]

I know that's not true. We got her here now, right.

[B]

She was in the States, she's now in Australia. I can't keep up, but she spent a lot of time here. New Zealand is currently led by three. I would describe them as quite sort of annoying men. It's much more of a right leaning government than when Jacinda was around. Chris Luxon is the Prime Minister, Winston Peters is our Minister of Foreign affairs. And they're both done absolutely nothing. And as we Record this. Last night, Winston Peters was on the news, being questioned by journalists about this, and essentially said, we don't give a shit about her. She didn't declare this horrific drug offense that she had 10 years ago. So we wash our hands of it. So New Zealand has been completely. It's a bummer. You know, I like to think of New Zealand as being this really cool, wonderful place. I should note that the consulate and Impact in the past in New Zealand have been very helpful about helping some white influences when they got into trouble on various trips. But with Evely, who is not white and who is brown, it is almost an attitude of, you got yourself into this mess, so you get yourself out. Which is just. It's shitty because now I'm like, I'm annoyed at America, and now I'm annoyed at New Zealand as well. The cool people in the story a lot. I love Betty. I love all of Everly's family that I speak to. You have met Everly in the flesh. She's cool, right? Just trying to figure this shit out. So, look, we will. We'll keep you updated on what's happening with Evalie in future episodes. Even episodes about other topics will. You know, we'll sort of update you as things come to hand. I want to know when Evalie gets out of there. I want to know how the case is going. And as we find that out, we'll pass that on to you. Listening?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, the annoying thing is gonna be how slow this all moves. I mean, yeah, there's not gonna be much of an update till at least June 10th.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Like, that's what it seemed like from her. Like, it was this holding pattern of, I don't. I don't know anything until I meet with this judge on Tuesday. And now it's. I'm not gonna know anything until I meet with them on June 10th. And then from there, I'm sure it's gonna be another date.

[B]

And you're right.

[A]

Any.

[B]

Any court stuff or any sort of administrative stuff. Even when even I'm thinking, like in America, when you go to see a doctor to get a referral to the specialist you want to see, you have all these dates set out in front of you, and you have the date, and it's like, oh, you can you get your referral, but that will be in two months. And then you sort of think to yourself, on two months, when I see that specialist, that will give me the answers I need. And it's like, no, it'll be something else. And I think It's. It's. You can see this just going on in a very similar way.

[C]

Yeah. And like I said earlier, it feels like intentionally slow in training to kind of break their will completely.

[B]

All right, look, I don't have. We. We had a bunch of feedback from that our last episode last week. Basically, it was all just people giving their. You know, how can we help? What can we do? I'll put the. The gofundme the family has in our show notes. That's the best thing you can do. We'll keep updates coming on this podcast. I'll keep writing about it on my newsletter, Webworm, and hopefully we'll have some positive news this year, you know, this year.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If you have feedback, if you have anything around this topic, if you have any added information or insight or just feedback or stuff you want us to pass on, it is always FlightThisPro. Chatmail.com over on our Patreon this week, which is where you can support the show if you want to, we have an After Dark episode where we give some updates on old Flightless Bird episodes. There's been certain storylines that have moved on, including the Home Alone House, Fake Seizure guy, and Kanye West. Kanye, yeah, Kanye West. Yeah. That is over at our patreon, which is patreon.com

[C]

and you're about to head to New York soon.

[B]

I am. For the Webby Awards, the big Webby Awards, and the glitz and glamour of New York City.

[C]

Did you. Did you get a suit?

[B]

I am just going to be myself. I'm going to be David Ferrier, Flightless Bird, and I'm just going to probably, as you see me now, is how I will appear.

[C]

You're not gonna wear your chili shorts.

[B]

The chili shorts might come out. I'm considering a haircut. I'm deeply excited because the night I think after the Weirby Awards, Boy Throb plays, which is a band that I love. If you don't know Boy Throb, look them up on social media. The gimmick is kind of ties in with this show in a way. Three American young men in there. They're trying to get their fourth band member, Dashan, who lives in India, to be able to come over. He's trying to get his green card. So the whole gimmick, whether you want to call it a gimmick or their whole thing, they're trying to get a green card for their fourth band member to come over and perform with them live. So how the show is going to work in New York, I don't know,

[C]

see, like on zoom.

[B]

Probably. They'll probably zoom in. DeShawn, he's amazing. They're all amazing, these boy band members. I'm a big fan. So look, I'm excited about the Webby's. I'm curious, do I get to give a speech? Is best indie podcast good enough to appear on stage?

[C]

Clearly you haven't read too much about the Webby Awards.

[B]

No. What's the deal?

[C]

Do we know we're supposed to submit a five word acceptance speech?

[B]

Five words?

[C]

Five words is what you get. And they pick from who's attending, some people to come up and.

[B]

Oh my God. So you see, you make your five words and then they decide, yeah, fuck Trump, fuck Ice, forever. How would that go down at the Webbies, I wonder?

[C]

Michael? Fine.

[B]

Thanks for listening as always. Thanks to everyone who has emailed in about Evalie and it's really neat to see that you care about this stuff and it's a weird fucking thing to talk about. Yep, we will see you next week. Stay safe and stay sane and we'll see you soon.