Live in Austin: Bats, Lizardman, Rosabel, & The Yogurt Shop Murders

Summary

Flightless Bird Podcast - Live in Austin: Bats, Lizardman, Rosabel & The Yogurt Shop Murders

Host: David Farrier
Guests: Rob (cohost), Rosabelle, Merlin Tuttle, Lizardman (Eric Sprague), Kim Rossmo
Date: June 30, 2026

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Overview

In a lively, jam-packed live recording in Austin, Texas, David Farrier and co-host Rob dive into the city’s unique essence, exploring local culture, iconic wildlife, and infamous crimes. This episode features field reports from the hosts, audience participation, and interviews with three distinct guests: bat conservation legend Merlin Tuttle, sideshow performer Lizardman, and renowned criminologist Kim Rossmo. With a blend of humor, awe, and curiosity, the team investigates everything from Austin’s bats to cold case murders, celebrating the city’s weirdness and depth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Why Austin? (00:09–06:36)

• David and Rob’s arrival in Austin and their impressions. David describes Austin as a "small liberal enclave" in Texas, with its own strange charm (00:09).
• Rosabelle's journey from New Zealand to Austin, including her marathon travel mishaps and hilarious pig pen AirBnB experience (05:05).
• The trio presents “school project” style snapshots of their Austin adventures: internet cafes, barbecue, caricatures, fashion fails (David can’t fit a cowboy hat), and their awe at the nightly bat exodus (07:41–13:35).

Notable Quotes

• David: “My relationship with bats is interesting... All of us witnessed this for the first time... It was mind-blowing. The best thing about your city are these bats.” (11:50)
• Rob: “You really look like you belong here.” (05:08, about Rosabelle in a cowboy hat)

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2. Local Flavor: “Austin Man” Headlines (14:11–21:09)

• “Austin Man” segment: Parody of the “Florida Man” trope, with bizarre and earnest local news items. Headlines include attempted dog van theft, a library head-stomping incident, daredevil crane swinging, a backyard cornhole tournament, and a world record for marathon basketball dribbling.
• David pokes fun at uniquely American pastimes and obsessions.

Notable Quotes

• David (re: the marathon dribbler): “Americans can be so beautifully earnest, even when talking about a very funny world record attempt.” (20:10)
• Rob (on cornhole): “Do you know about cornhole?” (18:58)

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3. Weird Austin: Audience Interaction (21:22–26:41)

• The hosts read audience-submitted cards on “the weirdest thing about this city.” Responses touch on:
  • Full moon parties at Barton Springs
  • “Grackle parties” instead of pigeons
  • Driverless cars (Waymo)
  • Nudist colony at Hippie Hollow
  • Austin’s identity crisis amidst tech and conservative influx
• Discussion of cultural quirks, public restroom differences, and the delight in local eccentricities.

Notable Quotes

• Rosabelle: “I like this one. Waymo. I’ve never been in a driverless car before. I can’t tell if it’s scary or cool.” (25:31)
• David: “Austin doesn’t have [toilet seat covers] apparently... That’s wild.” (23:40)

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4. Merlin Tuttle and the Bats of Austin (26:45–43:35)

Interview with Merlin Tuttle, Bat Conservationist

• Merlin recounts how he became Austin’s “Bat Man,” pushing back against the city’s rabies hysteria in the 1980s.
• He reframed bats as an ecological goldmine, driving massive tourism and agricultural benefits: “$1.4 billion a summer” in agricultural savings, and over $200 million in bat tourism ([30:30], [36:16]).
• Merlin addresses myths about bats and rabies and explains his people-first, non-combative conservation approach: “My approach is winning friends instead of battles.” (37:54)
• He urges practical, community-based solutions and tells stories of international bat success.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Merlin: “If you’re brave enough to own a dog and get married, you certainly should be brave enough to tolerate a bat.” (33:14)
• On his legacy: “I’m hoping... people from around the world can learn not to fear bats and can learn the value of conserving bats.” (41:45)

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5. American Sideshow: The Lizardman (Eric Sprague) (43:46–58:10)

Interview with Lizardman

• Lizardman discusses the history of tattooed performers and “freak shows,” tying his career to the Victorian-era tradition.
• Talks about his personal transformation (split tongue, filed teeth, subdermal implants) and creating a persona not with a forced-trauma backstory, but as “an artist... trying to entertain and provoke thought.” (47:24)
• Demonstrates tongue tricks and performs his stomach-pumping “Bile Beer” act, to David and Rob’s horror and the audience’s fascination.
• Reveals the act’s lineage from the Jim Rose Circus, and confirms he’s likely broken world records with his feats (54:05).

Best Moments

• David: “Is there a particular part of the process that was difficult or dicey to do?”
• Lizardman: “Implants are the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced in my life... It’s a six-hour operation with no anesthetic.” (48:45)
• Lizardman, on recycling his insides: “It’s recycling. Go green.” (58:08)

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6. Art, Public Memory & Rosabelle’s Project “Inheritance” (58:46–64:20)

Interview with Rosabelle

• David spotlights Rosabelle’s interactive, visionary arts project “Inheritance,” which compiles advice and messages from Manchester’s youth for children 100 years in the future.
• The project addresses both humor and poignancy: jokes, future anxieties, debates over which sounds will disappear.
• Highlights children’s insights into social justice and their surprising awareness of global issues (63:20).

Notable Quotes

• Rosabelle: “It’s fascinating thinking about how smart kids are and how often we do not take them seriously in spaces that are deemed for adults.” (62:45)
• David: “Rosabelle, you’re so smart and you blow my mind.” (64:09)

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7. True Crime in Austin: Rainy Street Ripper & Yogurt Shop Murders (65:45–78:24)

Interview with Kim Rossmo, Criminologist & Detective

• Explains his investigative journey: debunking the notion of an active “Rainy Street Ripper” serial killer (recent Austin drownings were not homicides) and unraveling the decades-old Yogurt Shop Murders (67:51–73:05).
• Shares how his “Rossmo’s Algorithm” (geographic profiling) aids criminal investigation, shifting focus away from clickbait and social media-fueled speculation toward genuine risk assessment and evidence (70:30–73:00).
• Critiques the commercialization of true crime and misconceptions from TV: “You don’t get justice without the truth.” (73:41)
• Underlines the need for community cooperation in solving crimes and the particular vulnerabilities of marginalized groups (76:43).

Notable Quotes

• Kim: “Serial killers are a problem, but they don’t drown people. They stab them, they shoot them, they strangle them.” (68:54)
• Kim: “The number one group that research shows will solve a crime are you – the public.” (77:16)
• David: “Just because you watch Law & Order doesn’t mean you know how to actually solve a case.” (78:24)

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8. Audience Q&A (79:15–86:55)

• Questions for all guests cover topics such as:
  • Lizardman’s work with Ripley’s Believe It Or Not (80:04)
  • The use of AI in cold case investigations (85:11)
  • Summer, David’s American Girl Doll (84:20)
  • Enduring emotional damage from David cracking an egg on Rosabelle’s head (79:41)
• Conversation maintains the live show’s energy and comedian’s rapport.

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9. Wrapping Up & Looking Ahead (86:55–end)

• David teases future podcast themes (“I want to do something with guns in America because it’s deranged...”), reflects on the night, and thanks the audience and guests.
• Final audience questions bring laughs: “Ghosts aren’t real. What the fuck?” (88:39)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |-------------------------|------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Austin Impressions, Arrival Stories | Kiwi-view, barbecue, pig pen stay, city landmarks | 00:09–13:35 | | “Austin Man” Headlines | Wild local stories, cultural commentary | 14:11–21:09 | | Weirdest Thing: Austin | Audience tales, quirky customs & places | 21:22–26:41 | | Merlin Tuttle Interview | Bat conservation, myth-busting, economic impact | 26:45–43:35 | | Lizardman Interview | Freak show history, body modification, “bile beer” act | 43:46–58:10 | | Rosabelle’s Art Project | Youth perspectives, “Inheritance” installation | 58:46–64:20 | | Kim Rossmo Interview | Serial killer myths, cold cases, geographic profiling| 65:45–78:24 | | Q&A + Podcast Future | Audience questions, future topics, wrap-up | 79:15–end |

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Tone & Memorable Moments

• Signature humor: David’s deadpan, curious Kiwi perspective infuses the episode, balancing childlike wonder and irreverence, e.g., “Ghosts aren’t real. What the fuck?” (88:39)
• Local pride & weirdness: Genuine awe at Austin’s bats and eccentric culture.
• Respect for expertise: Thorough, earnest interviews with top guests, earning audience admiration.
• Body horror and bravado: Lizardman’s act provides queasy comic relief; David’s discomfort becomes a running joke.
• Audience rapport: Live participation enriches the atmosphere with authenticity and unpredictability.

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Standout Quotes

• Merlin Tuttle on bats:
  “If you’re brave enough to own a dog and get married, you certainly should be brave enough to tolerate a bat.” (33:14)

• Lizardman on performance:
  “I’ve had a career now for 30 years being weird for money.” (47:21)

• Kim Rossmo on investigation:
  “You don’t get justice without the truth... They’re monetizing crime... behind your TikTok is a real victim.” (73:41)

• Rosabelle on youth:
  “It’s fascinating thinking about how smart kids are and how often we do not take them seriously...” (62:45)

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Summary

This live Flightless Bird episode is a whirlwind tour through Austin’s eccentric heart, effortlessly weaving together travelogue, social critique, scientific insight, and body-shocking spectacle. David Farrier and Rob use humor and sincerity as guiding lights, lifting up their guests’ expert voices—Merlin Tuttle’s patient activism, Lizardman’s unapologetic creativity, and Kim Rossmo’s rational analysis. The show offers listeners a chance to marvel at what makes Austin and America so strange, special, and, above all, human.

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For those who missed the show, this summary offers a full flavor of the energy, insight, and weird wonder packed into an unforgettable night in Austin.

Transcript

[David Farrier]

You better have a good reason for ringing me. Hi, my little fresh apple pie. I feel that's uninspired. Hayden, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but Rob and I are about to go on stage in Austin, Texas and I'm just wondering what you can tell us about your knowledge of Austin. What just now are you recording this? Like, am I on the screen being like, here's what I know about your beautiful city, what I know about Austin. So when someone says Austin to me, I think small liberal enclave in the heart of like gun toting, country and western Ford Ranger truck driving kill you for not supporting Donald Trump America. And then they have this tiny little blue tinted enclave where people are kind of like fearfully cowering or looking at everything around them. Is that right? Is that Austin? Yeah, that sounds about right. And Joe Rogan lives there as well? Oh yeah. Cause I mean, he's right wing, but there's only so far that he's willing to go. He's like, I'll go to Texas, but I don't want to get too far in. I don't have to associate with the deepest level of my fan base. Well, Hayden, my only regret about being here is that you're not here with us. But it's nice to know that you're in New Zealand, you know, keeping things down there, you know, Is that really a regret of yours, David? Hey, man, I didn't even get asked whether I could keep get on a plane, but now you're saying that you regret that. Well, don't tell me something, show me where's the action. I'm not just about words. You know what I resolved recently? I'm like, I've got to be nicer on this podcast. And I feel like this hasn't been the conversation where I pulled it off. Flagless flagness

[Rob]

flag.

[David Farrier]

This bird touched down in America. I'm a flightless bird. Touchdown in America. Thank you so much and thank you to a beautiful audience who is already cheering and stoking our egos already.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Thank you.

[David Farrier]

We've been here, Rob and I have been here for a couple of days now and I'd say all in all, pretty happy to be here. Would you agree?

[Rob]

Yeah. I love Austin.

[David Farrier]

It's a good vibe. It's quite, it's, it's toasty. And I know this isn't as hot as it gets, but I've been very sweaty. And when I put these Crocs on this morning with bare feet, it was like a squelchy kind of a Vibe pretty quickly, which is nasty. So I've got socks on to sort of tame them slightly.

[Rob]

Just curious. How many days in a row have you worn those shorts?

[David Farrier]

I love these shorts. Probably about day 10. Why not? Oh, didn't like that. Underwear on. The underwear is being changed.

[Kim Rossmo]

Okay.

[David Farrier]

I don't think you need to wash a short all that often. Maybe we disagree

[Merlin Tuttle]

now.

[David Farrier]

I'm. You know, we played Salt Lake City a couple of days ago and that was a lot of fun. But this particular show I'm excited about. Cause, well, where do we begin?

[Rob]

We love Austin.

[David Farrier]

We love Austin for one thing.

[Rob]

We do.

[David Farrier]

It's fucking great. We wanted to do something special and we started a Patreon recently and we had a series of goals that we wanted to hit. So I can't remember what they were.

[Rob]

Patreon.com Flightlessbird Flightless Bird.

[David Farrier]

It's great. Bonus episodes every week.

[Rob]

1000 subscribers. We did a Lord of the Rings screening.

[David Farrier]

Yes. Which is yet to happen, but we've finally found a cinema that will play it, unfortunately, because I fucking hate Lord of the rings.

[Rob]

1500. We get to crack an egg on your head and fly. Rosabelle here.

[David Farrier]

Yes. So we have done the egg crack already and that was awful, but a lot of fun. But we wanted to sort out the Rosabelle being an America situation and so we have fucking done it. Rosabelle.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Here.

[David Farrier]

Fucking incredible. Rosabelle. It's deeply annoying when she gets the

[Rob]

louder cheer than us.

[David Farrier]

We do the podcast, Rob and I, you just swoop in and take. No, Rosabelle. It's a. She's fucking amazing. She's the best. I know this. We all know this. So just first, Rosabelle, welcome.

[Rosabelle]

Thank you. So exciting.

[Rob]

You really look like you belong here.

[Rosabelle]

I bought this cowboy hat from Alan's Boots

[David Farrier]

and I went in to also get a cowboy hat and the guy got out the tape and sort of measured my head also and kind of looked like a bit shocked. And my head is basically too big to fit a cowboy hat on and that's why I don't have one.

[Rosabelle]

And they also looked quite weird on you.

[David Farrier]

I didn't. It didn't work at all. Right. Horrific. Yeah. I was hoping for some sort of like, from you, some sort of like thumbs up, but you sort of looked horrified. Every hat I put on. Anyway, your journey here has been kind of comical. Originally, we'd booked you on a 12 hour flight from Auckland to Los Angeles where I was going to meet you, going to spend the night in la and then come here the next day in New Zealand, our national carrier, decided just to cancel the flight a couple of days beforehand.

[Rob]

Well, this all happened the morning of our Utah show.

[David Farrier]

The morning of the Utah show. Very stressful. We had to rebook Rosabelle on sort of like a trip from hell. And so Rosabelle got up at 3am in New Zealand, went to the airport, flew four hours to Melbourne, had a seven hour stopover at the airport, flew 16 hours to Dallas, had a stopover there. They lost her luggage immediately and then flew into Austin. And so, basically, while Rob and I had an entire day and a show and a beautiful sleep and a whole other day, Roosevelt was just like, in the air. But she made it.

[Rosabelle]

I made it. It was worth it.

[David Farrier]

Now, we like to sort of explore each city that we're in. And we have done that, us three. And we usually have a big projector. We don't have one of those. So we took photos of our trip around your beautiful city and have printed them out. Kind of like we're doing a school presentation, which is quite weird. But we're going to see how it goes. And so we're going to figure out how we do this. So this, I just really like this. I have a big love of Internet cafes. No idea if this is accurate or not, but I'm really excited to think that this could be the first Internet cafe in Austin, possibly in the United States. And the fact it still exists is fucking amazing. Internet cafes are very special in my heart, and Austin has one. And I'm very happy about this. Now, this was a real blow. We got on with Claude and all the AIs and the Googles, and we said, like, what do we do in Austin?

[Rob]

This one might be your fault, though.

[David Farrier]

No, don't put this on me.

[Rob]

I think we put in the wrong address, because this is supposed to take us to Fairy Village at Bolden Creek.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Oh, this is about this. No, no. Okay, okay, I understand. Okay. I get this now.

[Rob]

This was an alleyway behind the Alamo Drafthouse.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Yeah. Called.

[Rob]

With some toys scattered around.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Called Fairy Ave. The least special place I've ever been.

[Rob]

This was our second stop and we got pretty discouraged.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, it was bad.

[Kim Rossmo]

Oh.

[David Farrier]

But there is a completely different place.

[Rob]

Okay. Yes.

[David Farrier]

I'm not going to take the blame for that.

[Rob]

It looks much cooler.

[David Farrier]

Okay, well, my mistake. Don't go to that Ave. Because it's rubbish. What's happening here?

[Rob]

Barbecue. Mmm.

[David Farrier]

Rosabelle, this was your first ever barbecue experience.

[Kim Rossmo]

It was.

[David Farrier]

I'm curious what you thought of it overall.

[Rosabelle]

I thought it was very Delicious. I wanted to be able to eat more, but I couldn't.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

We have our seed.

[Rosabelle]

Oh, yeah.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. It's intense. What happened here?

[Rob]

Us eating barbecue.

[David Farrier]

Oh, yeah. Look at that. Look at all that meat. Look at all that meat. I don't know how you do it. Like, how often do you eat this shit? Like, is it once a week, once a month, once a year? Because it did. It completely ruined, I think, all of us for the day. Delicious. But it's like, it gets you. And then all the sides once you're full with Mac and cheese.

[Rob]

It's probably similar to deep dish pizza in Chicago. You give that once a year.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. I could feel my heart, like, really struggling just to get through it. But I did have an encounter which is. I don't know if it was good or bad. Okay, what do we think? Who's into it and who's not? So let's have into it. Who's not into it. Yeah. I mean, it's incredible. I mean, he's a fascinating character. He came to New Zealand and sold out three shows at our biggest stadium. So, like, the world is into this man. For some reason, he's gotten incredibly small over time. He's changed his sort of look. And I think he's probably a closet Trumper, but I might be wrong on that. But that's just my suspicion in saying that. Oh, that Some debate out there. Maybe. Maybe he's not, but he was. He's just. He's one of those people that, like, doesn't ever talk to it, you know, the Grammys. Afterwards, he was like, I don't want to talk about this. But, yeah, I approached him, I said, can I have a photo? You seem nice. You know, he wanted the photo with me.

[Kim Rossmo]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

That was what I really. That was a real situation. He texted that to me, and then we printed it on a massive poster.

[Rob]

This is your.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. So that was buying the hat, and I was going to get a cool top, but I decided not to because I love my goosebumps top so much. This presentation is actually going quite well, and I like the teamwork that's happening between the two of you. Oh, look at this. Okay, so we're basically. Rosabelle and I are staying in. What's it called?

[Rob]

Roswell Pig Parlor.

[Rosabelle]

Pig parlor.

[David Farrier]

Pig parlor. And we are essentially in a pig pen. And so we wake up each day. Roosevelt's room's here, mine's here, and there's just a pig that lives. Because we're actually inside the pig pen in our little house. And so we wake up to a pig snuffling around, and we've also found we wake up to the neighborhood people coming in to visit the pig. And if we don't shut the blinds, you wake up and there's a pig and a bunch of kids looking in at you sleeping. Quite weird. But overall, very positive. Overall, I support it completely.

[Rob]

Caricature.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, we went and got a caricature done. Always risky, you know, Always risky. But I'm kind of curious. And this was under the bat bridge. Of course. I'm curious. Like, who they got best there? Oh, you like it? That's so nice. I mean, it is sweet. Can you tell who's who? Yeah. Okay.

[Merlin Tuttle]

All right.

[David Farrier]

It's a winner. We'll give this away to someone. Up to us. Maybe we'll give these posters away. Decide which one you want to hang on the wall. The bats. The bats. My God, you have such. I mean, my relationship with bats is interesting because, of course, we don't really get a lot of them in New Zealand. We have bats, but not the volume that you have here. All of us witnessed this for the first time, which you have probably all seen these bats heading off at night. It was fucking incredible. Like, it was mind blowing. The best thing about your city are these bats. And just. It was like they never ended it just the line of bats kept going and going and going. You know this because you live here and you've seen it, but legitimately, incredibly, incredibly special. There was also another quite weird thing that happened where a bunch of. We looked like Rosabelle was standing there. And we looked above Rosabelle, and she had a massive swarm of, like, gnats around her head.

[Rob]

200 gnats.

[David Farrier]

And we're like, why are they there? And then she moved, and they'd follow her. It was like a cartoon.

[Rob]

She walked all the way down to the sidewalk and back, and they followed her.

[David Farrier]

And it was just this most incredible thing. And apparently gnats are attracted to black. And Roswell is wearing this pretty much. And it was just an incredible thing to witness. Anyway, so we had the joy of gnats and bats at the same time. Loved it a lot. Rob, I feel like you should talk to this beautiful establishment.

[Rob]

We did dinner at Uchiko. It's always my favorite place to come here.

[David Farrier]

I feel very lucky. I was delicious. I'm very lucky to do the show with Rob because I don't really understand where to go as far as food goes. He always takes me to these on these amazing sort of dates. Delicious. Yeah, thank you, Robert.

[Rob]

We did Uchiko and we did Hastia.

[David Farrier]

And today I went to McDonald's and had a cheeseburger. I'm sorry. And that completes. That went quite well, I think. Yeah, this kind of worked quite well. We have a very packed show, so forgive me if I start talking incredibly fast here, but we're gonna begin the show with should we do Austin Man? Yeah, let's do Austin Man's Fun. So the gimmick, you know, you have Florida man. We like to look at what men are doing in the city that we're in. Do you have our first headline, Robin?

[Rob]

So Austin man faces several felony charges after Chicago police said he tried to steal a sprinter van carrying eight dogs inside from the front of a Lincoln park pet salon earlier this week.

[David Farrier]

That was just the headline. It's like pretty much the entire story. This happened March 4th this year. An Austin man faces several felony charges after Chicago police said he tried to steal a sprinter van carrying eight dogs from a pet salon. Edwin has been charged with one felony count each a possession of a stolen vehicle, possession of burglary tools, and possessing a stolen or altered title and registration. He's also charged with 10 misdemeanor charges including cruelty to animals and and criminal trespass. Police were called to the 2200 block of North Claiborne Avenue just before 9am Claiborne. Clybourn.

[Rob]

We've been there.

[Rosabelle]

What?

[Rob]

That's right across the street from Pequods.

[David Farrier]

Oh, get out.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So this is an Austin man that travels to your favorite city.

[Rob]

Yes, and to my favorite pizza place, I think.

[David Farrier]

A van was reported stolen belonging to Marque's Castle of dogs that was parked outside Animal Lovers Pet Salon to drop off eight four legged clients to their owners. I like it when journalists get creative. Instead of saying dogs, say four legged clients. After 11am Police got a tip that the van was spotted in Albany Park. They swarmed, the man was caught, the dogs were returned. It was a labradoodle, a mini dachshund, a mountain dog, an Aussie mix, a sheepdog, a lab mix and two huskies. It was just complete joy, said Tom. At the moment, he's reunited with his 14 year old dog, Max. He's one of the family.

[Rob]

There's a photo of him crying, being interviewed.

[David Farrier]

Really sweet. Good ending.

[Rob]

All right. Austin man charged after allegedly stomping on person's head at Austin Central Library.

[David Farrier]

Not good. We love libraries. They're one of our favorite. I also can't say the word. I say library. It should be library.

[Rosabelle]

Library.

[David Farrier]

I Miss an A in an R. An Austin man is facing felony charges following an alleged assault at the Austin Central Library on Wednesday. This happened March 12, 2020. According to the Austin Police Department, officers responded to a call reporting a male stomping on another person's head on the fourth floor of the library. Officers arrived and they learned that Austin Police Chief Lisa Davis, who had been at the library for a community meeting, had already detained the suspect. So it was all sorted. Great ending to it all. The guy that was stomped was fine. I mean, not fine. He's not. He didn't die. He was all right. I'd hate to have my head stomped. All right, our next headline.

[Rosabelle]

Next one. Austin Mann seen swinging from downtown Austin crane.

[David Farrier]

I like this one. I like a Daredevil. This happened May 1st. Downtown Austin skyline turned into the backdrop of a jaw dropping stunt on Easter Sunday when an Austin man was spotted swinging from a construction crane atop a high rise under construction. It was above Republic Square. Stunned onlookers made the whole thing quickly go viral with their video. Witnesses described the scene as both mesmerizing and terrifying. It's a great combo. The individual, who appeared to be holding a selfie stick, made several wide swings from the crane arm hundreds of feet above the ground before climbing down a ladder attached to the crane and entering the building. It was one heck of a rope swing, said Sidney Lee, another eyewitness. Did you see he had the Sophie pole, too? I want to see his perspective.

[Rob]

Can you try that with an American accent?

[David Farrier]

People don't like it. I'll do it from the safety of our studio. Not when I can get. Not when I can get. Okay. It was one heck of a rope swing. I want to know how I got up there. I mean, did you see the selfie pole, too? I want to see his perspective.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Thank you. Thank you.

[David Farrier]

And what I found interesting about this is there's apparently a shit ton of people in Austin that get up on cranes and swing around. In 2023, a man climbed a crane near seventh in. I'm going to butcher this. Guadalupe, prompting a police response. The year before that, another individual was arrested for trespassing up to scaling a Crane along West 4th. There were more in previous years, so congratulations.

[Rob]

Do you guys have cranes in New Zealand?

[David Farrier]

Do we have them?

[Rosabelle]

Yes.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

The reason originally we had the idea of having Rosabelle and Hayden at the beginning of an episode was just to balance out the misinformation about the country that I tend to spread. We do have cranes.

[Rob]

All right. Austin Mann grows backyard cornhole tournament into an annual tradition. Do you know about cornhole?

[Rosabelle]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Someone does. Oh, you, David, did not cornhole. You throw a ball through a hole in a bit of wood.

[Rob]

Beanbag.

[David Farrier]

Oh, sorry. A beanbag.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Was ball the problem? Yeah. Oh, come on. Jesus. May 26, 2025. Austin Mann. Scott Nelson says his annual cornhole tournament started out in his backyard on Memorial Day around five years ago. Now almost 100 visitors come out to participate from across Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin. Previous, he says the cap has been set at 30 teams, but to fit everyone in this year, he decided to move the event to Lafayette Park. This year, he says, 47 teams came out to play. That's the end of the story. It's a positive one.

[Rosabelle]

Final headline, Austin Mann sets world record for finishing Austin Marathon while dribbling a basketball.

[Kim Rossmo]

Oh.

[David Farrier]

February 18, 2024. An Austin Mann is now a new world record holder. Ben Duong, 24, finished with a time of 1 hour, 21 minutes, 37 seconds at Sunday's Austin Marathon, which is impressive, but not as impressive as his shattering of a prior world record. He set a new mark recognized by the Guinness World Records by becoming the fastest person ever to finish a marathon while dribbling a ball. The article is so long, but that's pretty much was sponsored by the San Antonio Spurs. Yeah, he said. It doesn't feel real. I'm honestly in disbelief. I'm shaking. He told the Statesman after the race. We're here. We made it here. I couldn't have done it without my family, all my friends, everyone who supported me. Americans can be so beautifully earnest, even when talking about a very funny world record attempt. I struggle with Guinness World Records because some of them are sort of. This isn't quite impressive, but some of them are just so incredibly made up. It's like we set a world record for flying Roosevelt here. That hasn't happened before.

[Rosabelle]

Most hours traveled.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, true. How long? Like 30 something. 30 plus hours.

[Rosabelle]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So, yeah. Awesome, man. Overall, not that deranged. Didn't love the head stomp. Loved the crane swing and the basketball dribbling already. I'm panicking because we're slightly. We're blowing out already. We're okay.

[Rob]

We're good.

[David Farrier]

I get very finicky about the time. I've got a little watch here and everything. We're going to do a Weirdest Things segment.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Before the show, some of you stole the cards and ran away with them. Some of you filled them in. But we have a very special guest to deliver the cards so we can Learn from you, our beautiful audience, about what makes Austin so special. Thank you, Calvin. Thank you, Vincent. Do you want to kick this off, Rosabelle? We're just here to learn, actually. Oh, I like this. Awful and confusing. You want to read from that little top section?

[Rosabelle]

Yes. Okay. What's the weirdest thing about this city? Full moon party at Barton Springs.

[David Farrier]

Oh, the funny thing about. And you've got you pay to get into that main bit. But then I noticed as I was leaving the other day, there's like another section which is like the delinquents or something. It's like, it looked way more fun. So you don't have to pay to go there. You can just jump in outside of the fence. Yeah. Look good.

[Rob]

Rob Frisbee. Dan and Sun God. Rivalry at San Marcos River.

[David Farrier]

Oh, we like that.

[Rob]

Don't know what that means.

[David Farrier]

I'm deeply confused. No toilet seat covers anywhere. I thought I knew what this was initially, but I don't understand this. What does a toilet seat cover?

[Rosabelle]

It's like the top of the toilet, right?

[David Farrier]

So you don't fall in. It's the paper.

[Rob]

There's like paper that come. Do you not have this in New Zealand?

[Rosabelle]

I don't know.

[David Farrier]

What are you talking about?

[Rosabelle]

Paper that comes?

[Rob]

It's a paper covering that you can take out and put down on the toilet seat.

[Rosabelle]

Why?

[Rob]

For germs.

[David Farrier]

Also that your butt skin doesn't touch the plastic.

[Rob]

Yes.

[David Farrier]

Huh. I don't think I've ever seen that in what cities have it?

[Rob]

Every city.

[David Farrier]

Really?

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And you're using it?

[Rob]

Sure.

[David Farrier]

Wow. I squat. So I'm hovering over, well, you can

[Rob]

use the paper and then you don't have to squat.

[David Farrier]

Huh. And what do you do with the paper up towards? Do you flush it?

[Rob]

It's flushable. Goes right in.

[David Farrier]

That's wild. Okay. Austin doesn't have those, apparently. Rosabelle.

[Rosabelle]

Okay, this one's quite long and it has a trigger warning, but I don't know what the trigger warning is.

[David Farrier]

We can all be surprised together. It's always worrying, isn't it? Who are we triggering? Could be anything.

[Rosabelle]

This is another Barton one on the Barton Creek green belt. For many years, there's been an all green life sized humanoid thing hanging from a tree along the trail. Think the green man something. And always sunny head to toe spandex, bright green. It's scary as fuck. And no matter how many times I see it, I always think it's tragically a real person.

[Rob]

Huh.

[David Farrier]

Okay, so sort of a body hanging from a tree in spandex.

[Rob]

In this always sunny green spandex suit.

[David Farrier]

Okay. Have you seen this?

[Rob]

Nope. Okay.

[David Farrier]

Weird.

[Rob]

North versus south tug of war over the river in the 80s. And Eeyore's birthday party every year with. With drugs in drum circles, but also child friendly.

[David Farrier]

Does not sound accurate, but also does sound quite fun. Grackle parties in every heb. Or is it heb, that big grocery store? So the grackles. Am I your own understanding that instead of pigeons, you have grackles? What a while. I wonder if they decided all the pigeons are like, when we're getting out of town, the grackles are moving in. We like grackles, right? Yeah, no, they're great birds. Big fan. Big fan.

[Rob]

We've gone. We've gone.

[David Farrier]

This is heavy. Roosevelt. Should we do one more round?

[Rosabelle]

Okay, I like this one. Waymo. O. I've never been in a driverless car before. I can't tell if it's scary or cool.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, should we.

[Rob]

Should we reveal.

[David Farrier]

Should we do one at some point? Okay, we'll do awaymo. No. Okay. Feel it's polarizing. Waymo. Robert.

[Rob]

Hippie Hollow.

[David Farrier]

What is hippie hollow?

[Rosabelle]

Nudist.

[David Farrier]

Nudist. That's cool. If you haven't seen episode six of the Neighbors show on hbo, please watch it. There's a great nudist episode. Blows my mind. Wish I'd made it. Grasping at previous identity with onslaught of tech conservatives moving in. Yeah, I mean, it is weird. It's more annoying than weird, but, yeah, true. So it's a low one to end on, but an accurate thing that seems to be happening. But here we go. I think that segment worked quite well. Thank you, Rosabelle, for taking part. God, you're good. You really like. You bring. You bring the tone of all of us up. Rosabelle, just having your presence here. We're gonna bring you back. Clap, Rosabella. She's coming back.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Don't worry.

[David Farrier]

Now, the first thing I ever really knew about Oscar was all the bats living under the bridge. And initially, I was incredibly worried because of the whole rabies thing. If you listen to the rabies episode of the show, you'll know why. Well, it turns out no group of mammals has been more misunderstood, needlessly feared, or intensely persecuted in the United States than the bat. Maybe the raccoon I feel is close, but bat's number one possum, I think. Possums. Yeah, true, actually.

[Rob]

Yeah, we got some grounds for that.

[David Farrier]

And relying grounds for that.

[Rob]

Groans.

[David Farrier]

Oh, groans. Yeah, they're a beautiful animal. Relying on a powerful combination of science Field knowledge and photography. Merlin Tuttle's Bat conservation is helping save millions of the little fuzzy freaks and protect public health by teaching people to live harmoniously with them. Tonight, I'm incredibly honored and happy to welcome the man behind Merlin Tuttlesback Conservation, Mr. Merlin Tuttle. I'm so incredibly thrilled to have you here, Merlin. And you know, when I was organizing this with you, the tricky thing was about getting you here is that you were on an, of course, an overseas sort of bat expedition. And I understand you got back Fairly recently.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Just 11 days ago.

[David Farrier]

Welcome back.

[Merlin Tuttle]

I'm still having a little bit of trouble realizing that it's night, there's an 11 hour time zone change.

[David Farrier]

Well, thanks for coming and agreeing to do this despite the time zone difference. I am curious. You know, we saw the bats doing their thing a couple of nights ago for the first time. But essentially you're the man who is responsible for the bats even being there, which blows my mind. I know you're probably sick of the story, but can you just talk to what brought you to Austin and what your focus was?

[Merlin Tuttle]

Well, the bats brought me to Austin. I was very happily employed in Milwaukee and I had just gotten into conserving bats when all of a sudden there were media headlines from coast to coast in the US about how hundreds of thousands of rabid bats were invading, attacking the citizens of Austin. And of course I had to come investigate that. And at the time, there were even major posters showing terrified people fleeing bats. People were signing petitions to have the bats eradicated. And I came to a very different conclusion. I decided that the bats were a goldmine of opportunity and moved to Austin to take advantage of it.

[David Farrier]

Which is a baller move to make when you've got that much public distaste for this creature. I guess, like, did you know how hard this was going to be?

[Merlin Tuttle]

At the time that I decided to devote full time to conserving bats, most Americans would have rather paid to kill a bat than to save a bat. And certainly moving to Austin to headquarter my new efforts was deemed to be insane. I mean, after all, you go to the city where everybody supposedly is being attacked and hates bats to found an organization to educate people that bats are valuable. But actually, since the bats arrived very conservatively, they have attracted more than $200 million in tourism to, to office.

[Rob]

What, what did you do to help turn public opinion on bats?

[Merlin Tuttle]

I simply showed people real bats and told them the truth. I mean, in 65 years of studying bats in 45 countries, often surrounded by millions in caves I have never seen aggressive bat. I've never been attacked, never been bitten unprovokedly, nor has anybody at the bridge been attacked or contracted disease from a bat.

[David Farrier]

Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

[Kim Rossmo]

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[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

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[Kim Rossmo]

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[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

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[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rosabelle]

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[David Farrier]

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[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

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[Rosabelle]

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[Kim Rossmo]

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[Rosabelle]

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[David Farrier]

world of Legally Blonde.

[Rosabelle]

Watch Elle, a new original series only on Prime Video July 1st.

[David Farrier]

What would you say is the biggest misconception about bats in general that you butt up against?

[Merlin Tuttle]

Well, the biggest misconception is that they're dangerous harbingers of dread diseases. All the speculation is pretty much nothing more than speculation. For example, you hear about bats being rabid, but only one to two people in all the US And Canada combined die of any disease from a bat each year. And those are always people who picked up a sick one, got bitten, and didn't do anything about it.

[Rob]

So

[Merlin Tuttle]

in the end, you need to put risk from bats in perspective. We're told bats are dangerous because you might get rabies from one. But in fact, only one to two people annually die of rabies or any other disease from a bat. In America, 45 people die of being outright attacked by a neighborhood dog. And before we go on and rampage against dogs because they're supposedly dangerous, we might consider the fact that our spouses kill us off at the rate of about 1,000 a year. So if you're brave enough to own a dog and get married, you certainly should be brave enough to tolerate bad.

[David Farrier]

And that's how you win people over to bats with lines like that. So what as far as you know, I almost feel like your job, you could look at what you do and sort of go, like, your job here in Austin is you've done. You've done the job so incredibly well. What is next for you? Like, what excites you about this field? Because you've achieved your goal of winning Austin and the States over to bats. So what now?

[Merlin Tuttle]

We've made a lot of progress in Austin, but bats are right now officially acknowledged as being the most endangered mammals in America. They're not doing as well as we think they're doing. There used to be vast numbers of bats. In fact, in many parts of America, bats filled our night skies on a par with passenger pigeons by day. And we're dealing with only small fractions of former numbers in most places. Even at the bridge in Austin. I remember when I first came here, I could take pictures of five columns going out at once. And that is now a very rare event.

[David Farrier]

Do you know why this is happening, or are there multiple reasons?

[Merlin Tuttle]

Well, there's many reasons. Careless use of wind power is killing hundreds of thousands annually. And to give you a bit of an idea why this matters, here in Texas, just one site I spent more than 20 years leading efforts to protect, Bracken Cave. This cave contains 10 to 20 million bats, and those bats eat 100 tons of insects nightly. Imagine what Texas would be like with 100 tons of extra insects.

[David Farrier]

I don't want to witness that.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Yeah, Just think of how many insects it would take to make a pound. And in fact, the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department estimates that our bats save farmers $1.4 billion a summer. Holy shit.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. What can we do? Or what can people do out there to help on an individual basis? Or is it more about lobbying on a bigger level?

[Merlin Tuttle]

Well, much of what I've accomplished in the world has come from people helping me. I can always use help. I just got back from Thailand, where I was delighted to share with some of our members, some from right here in Austin, a village where 45 years ago, I convinced the monks that owned a cave that if they would protect it so that the bats could repopulate, that they could make a very good income from that. They did. And today there are millions of bats in that cave, and the bats are. They're selling their guano fertilizer for $200,000 a year. They're protecting crops, saving 300,000 a year. And then they're inviting all kinds of tourism, just like you see in Austin. And so this one Thai village is now benefiting by more than a half million dollars annually. And a lot of that bat money is going to the local school. And in honor of what the bats are doing for the school, the principal, teachers, and students all wear bat T shirts to school one day a week.

[David Farrier]

Really, You're really good at coming up with, like, very savvy, practical ways to change people's perceptions, like, even making, like, a thing. It's pretty great.

[Merlin Tuttle]

I have an approach to getting people to do what I want them to do for the environment. My approach is winning friends instead of battles. Too often, we who care about the environment attack those who have made mistakes as though they were evil or something. Oil drillers, miners, loggers. We tend to too easily consider them almost evil because they're destroying the world. But we forget that they're our employees. They're supporting our lifestyles. And when we just fight them as being bad guys, we just up the price of living for ourselves. Just imagine what the world would be like if we would be a little more accommodating to accept people who have made mistakes in the past and look only at what they could do in the future. And, you know, if we had 10% of what we now spend on litigation about the environment, imagine the progress we could make in saving the environment. Thank you.

[David Farrier]

Finally, I'm just curious. In the first place, before you came to Austin, why bats? Like, was there a moment where, like, a young you, when you were, like, 10, saw this bat and was like, that's my thing.

[Merlin Tuttle]

There wasn't a particular moment. I started out scaring the dickens out of my mother, dragging sizable snakes into the house. From there, I went to interest in seashells and then shrews. And finally, in high school, I lived near a bat cave. Became very curious because the bats were showing up only in the spring and fall. But all the books that I could find said that this species of bat lived in one cave year round. So I got my mother to drive me to the Smithsonian, where I met with some of the authors of the books. And they were impressed, gave me some bat bands, said, see if you can figure out where they go. And I have been sometimes called Merlin Overkill. Tuttle. I banded 42,000 bats and ended up studying them for 20 years. That was the beginning of my concern for bats. But after I got my PhD and got a full time job where I was actually paid to go wherever I wanted, study bats as long as I wanted, and come home whenever I felt like it. That job was strictly just a lot of fun and hard work, but fun, hard work. So as I did research worldwide over a period of a decade, I kept seeing how important bats are to the well being of humans, and yet how often people will kill bats out of ignorance, as almost happened here in Austin. And so I finally one day got up the nerve and announced that I was quitting my full time research job to go out and help conserve bats. And everybody didn't just think so. They knew I was insane when I did that. But. And especially when I did that and then moved to Austin to center my efforts. But I did it because I had a very strong belief that saving bats is critical to our future. Bats are absolutely essential in keeping insect pests in control, pollinating flowers and dispersing seeds in rainforest. We hear a lot now about global warming and weather change and how planting trees can help that. But the way to plant trees is conserve bats. Throughout the tropical and subtropical world, where deforestation has had the biggest impact on our weather, many of the bats that are the world's first foremost seed dispersers and reforesters are now threatened with extinction. So there's a lot of work yet to be done. And I'm hoping to, through my legacy, leave Austin as a place where people from around the world can learn not to fear bats and can learn the value of conserving bats.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, I mean,

[Merlin Tuttle]

thank you.

[David Farrier]

I'm in awe of your work. Thank you so much for coming and talking to us about your work. And I'm just amazed you're here. I watch those bats do their thing and I'm like, oh my God, you're here tomorrow. You're the guy that is responsible for this. So just in the response from people here, I'm sure you know this, but like, people are so in admiration of what you do. Thank you so much for your weird obsession with these fuzzy little freaks. I appreciate you.

[Merlin Tuttle]

I didn't do it all myself. I've had a lot of help from people like you and I really appreciate that help and look forward to making even more progress in the future. Thank you, Merlin.

[David Farrier]

Thank you so much. Thank.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

You.

[Rosabelle]

All right.

[David Farrier]

We are taking a real, I mean, sort of similar.

[Rob]

Yeah, it makes sense.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, it sort of does.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Batman.

[David Farrier]

We're going sort of from a Batman to a lizard man. He probably doesn't really need an introduction. Eric Sprague is he's the lizard man because he looks a lot like a lizard. And here he is. I'm incredibly glad to have him here live with us. He's a sideshow performer best known for his body modification, including, as you can see, sharpened teeth, lizard like skin, bifurcated ton a word I struggle saying. Subderminal implants and green inked lips. Lizardman, AKA Eric. Welcome.

[Kim Rossmo]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Oh, hot mic.

[David Farrier]

I mean, where to begin? I'm sort of a big. I'm curious about the culture of sort of sideshows and this idea of freak shows in America and that kind of thing. I'm wondering what put you on this path towards where we are right now. Because not everyone goes down this path, right?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

This is a. Not a well worn path that I've taken now, but there is, there is a path. Like, I do see myself as part of a historical tradition's not the right word, but. Lineage of fully tattooed and modified performers throughout history going back to was probably the archetype for the modern tattooed man. The way that everybody thinks about the tattooed man at a sideshow or a circus historically was a man who was called the tattooed Greek prince. He used a lot of other names, Constantine Constantis. But essentially he was the first person to think, oh, you know, when they bring back tattooed natives from Polynesia and around the world, people go really nuts for that. And they pay a lot of money to go see them. This is, you know, in Victorian England, throughout history, leading up to like the 17, 1800s. And he went, what if I went and got completely tattooed and just exhibited myself? But he's very smart about it because he said, I gotta have a story, right? So he came up with this complete bullshit story about being abducted while sailing and forcibly. He said that he was given a choice of how he would die. And one of the ways to die was to be tattooed to death by a harem of virgins.

[Kim Rossmo]

Whoa.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Yeah. So but he survived and they were so impressed that he was given one of the virgins as a wife and allowed to live there. And he lived there. And this is all, you know, his story. But then he comes back, he comes back home and he tells this whole story. So he sold this fictional account and that became the archetype. You get completely tattooed and then you would sell your story. And it was usually a story of a sailor being shipwrecked or a person being abducted. It gets not fun if you're sensitive to sort of historical issues of racial issues and exploitation, even getting into the 90s we had there's a tattooed woman in America that her original story was that her parents had tattooed her to prevent Native Americans from kidnapping her as they crossed the West.

[David Farrier]

In America.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Yeah. So there's some not nice stuff that's in there. But that general archetype was the story that was sold to people and those were the ones that did the best. So when I looked historically at people that had chosen to do what I was choosing to do, said, well, who had the best success? And it was these outlandish stories and characters.

[David Farrier]

So obviously you're Lizard man, but like, what was your, like, big thought and story behind doing what you do? Because obviously it's also a process. It's not like you. This overnight, it's been a long investment in this. Yeah. Did you plan it all out?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

It's been a great investment of time and planning as well. Yeah. So I had. I first kind of had the idea of transforming and tattooing my entire body when I was about 18. It wasn't until I was 21 that I spent three years thinking about it, rethinking it, planning it, conceptualizing it, that I actually started to get into the actual process of having the work done. And partly that old story was I figured out or I thought I'd figured out, it did turn out to work out for me pretty well, was that I couldn't sell a story of force of that wasn't going to fly in 1990s America. Even though I did have one circus that I worked with where the guy said, Jesse goes, what if we say that you were kidnapped by hillbilly rednecks in a trailer park and they did this to you to make you a pet? We'll say it happened in Florida. They wanted to make their own gator man. That was legitimately a thing that was pitched as a business idea by real people who do this stuff for a living in the 90s. But I figured take more of a postmodern approach where they said, I'm just going to honestly explain my motivations and ideas as an artist and go out and say, this is what I'm trying to do. And I'm trying to do it to entertain and to provoke thought. And I was lucky enough that that resonated well enough that I've had a career now for 30 years being weird for money.

[David Farrier]

Is there a particular part of the process what stresses me out about you? Mostly the filed down teeth.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Ah, yes.

[David Farrier]

And the implants under the eyebrows. Was there a particular thing that was difficult or dicey to do well.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

So my implants are the most painful thing I've ever experienced in my life. Now, I'm someone who has had several near death experiences and worked as a stunt performer for 30 years. So most painful means it's the only time in my life that I have both hallucinated and vomited as a result of pain.

[David Farrier]

Jesus Christ.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

It's a six hour operation with no anesthetic.

[Rob]

Well, and is it you invented the tongue?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Well, so tongue splitting was always sort of an underground urban legend in body modification.

[David Farrier]

Can you show us the tongue quickly? Yeah, go.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

I like to say that I. Tongue's a muscle, so you have to exercise it. I have four exercises I like to do with my tongues. Very simple. I give them each names. They go from easiest to hardest. The first one goes like this. They call that one the open and close. It's a lot like oral applause if you think about it. Some of you need more time to think about it. That's okay.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Second one, I'm going to show you.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

This one's much more difficult. I call this one the up and down.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Yeah.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Ladies. And statistically, 10% of the men. Now that I have your attention, watch what happens when I do those two moves at the same time. I call this one the crossover.

[David Farrier]

Oh, I don't like that.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

All right. I saved the best for last. This, the piece de resistance. It took me two years to learn how to do this fourth move. Two years. And even with all that time, I never thought of the right name for it until the night my wife told me what she calls it. This one is called the. Oh, my God.

[David Farrier]

Concerned? You told me you bought a box of things, and I'm not quite sure because you obviously do some stuff as well when you're performing, so. I love stuff. You know, what happening here. I kind of want to get Rosabelle back out to sit in the middle. If Rosabelle's there, I'd kind of like, I think, come back. Rosabelle, I want you to see this because it's. I think it's. I just think it's. You're an American.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

You can help. That's great. You just hold that. Just hold that right there. Yeah. Don't move it. Don't move.

[David Farrier]

Thanks, Rosabelle. And I'm sorry. Or am I also, I will say, part of the joy of Roosevelt being here is that Hayden isn't. Okay. A beer is happening. Can I talk to you while that's up your nose?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Oh, absolutely.

[Kim Rossmo]

Yeah.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

We can just have a conversation.

[David Farrier]

Okay, that's fine. Rob did you have any questions for this big lizard? Sit on the couch.

[Rob]

No.

[David Farrier]

Are you done? Like, do you have more things you want to do to your. To your body or we there?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Well, so I've completed everything I set out to do originally. But, you know, along the way, more options have occurred and there are things that, if they become technologically viable that I would like to look into, like a.

[Rob]

Like a tail maybe.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

A tail has been on the list for a long time, but we can't quite do the sort of tail that I would want, really. Okay, let me see. I think there's a little air in my son. I might be able to blow a couple of bubbles in there. It's going to be hard to see out there, but one of the big ones and I have talked with a couple of researchers about this is a bioluminescent glow is something that I've really wanted to look into.

[David Farrier]

That would be pretty great. Yeah, that would be pretty great. Now what is happening right now? You've got the. I can see.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Okay, well, we've got the tube down into my. Via my nose nasogastric tube down into my stomach and we've got a beer. The beer is kind of slowly draining right now with gravity, but we're gonna give it a little push. Yeah, I just hope that's steady.

[David Farrier]

I really struggle with body stuff. It's like. Oh, Rosabelle. Oh, yeah.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Take it like here, let go of it now. Take it like it. Now just push, push hard. Push hard. Oh, yeah.

[David Farrier]

Oh, yeah. Oh. So that's all going.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

You can hear it right here sitting next to me. It's hard to hear over there. You hear the air burbling and girl.

[David Farrier]

So that's going all the way down.

[Kim Rossmo]

All the way down there.

[David Farrier]

That's going into the stomach right now.

[Kim Rossmo]

Yeah, There you go.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

You're all the way down there.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Okay. How does that. Does that feel like a pressure when that has an odd feeling?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

It is a bit of an odd feeling. When I first started out, it was very odd because my stomach goes from empty to full full very quickly. There's a lot of carbonation in there.

[David Farrier]

And you can get drunk. You can get drunk from that. Oh, yeah.

[Rob]

Non alcoholic beer.

[David Farrier]

Okay.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

I. I actually did. I quit drinking in 2020.

[Kim Rossmo]

Right.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

But this isn't technically drinking. This is injecting.

[David Farrier]

This is what happens now.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

What we do now is if you just grab that handle and just pull out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just pull out.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Pull, pull.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Keep going.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Pull it out.

[Rob]

There you go.

[David Farrier]

Let's keep pulling on that.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Yeah, give it a little more pull. Hold on for just a second.

[David Farrier]

Hold on for just a second.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Just let. Go ahead.

[Rob]

Let me take this.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Now, if you look closely, you see how it changes color when it hits the stomach content down there? And it doesn't always come back up alone. There's some. Do you see that? Is that a nose hair or a sea monkey? I can't tell.

[Merlin Tuttle]

I. Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So that's that stomach contents plus the beer that's just been in there. Yeah, that's.

[Rob]

That's.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

That's my. My day's stomach contents right there. You just hang on to that again, just for a second to free up my hands. Hold on.

[Rob]

It's gonna drink it.

[David Farrier]

Hate that. It's gonna. So much. You.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Just a little pressure on that now. If you wouldn't mind pouring me a little drink there.

[Merlin Tuttle]

There you go. That's it.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Push down hard. Push down hard. Y. It's. It's chunky. You got to push hard. There's a thickness to it that you really don't appreciate that you've done it a few times.

[Rob]

David, how much?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Yeah, keep going, keep going, keep going. All right, that should be good right there. Hang on. Pull out just a little bit, cuz I need. I need to make sure this is clear before I put that in.

[Rob]

David, how much to take a sip of that?

[David Farrier]

No, no, no, no. I'm not doing it. There's not. It's not a pressure from the audience thing. That's not working. That is so intense.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Oh.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

So if you're wondering how you ended up here, we gotta go back a little ways to the early 90s, when a man named Matt the Tube Crowley, an original member of the Jim Rose Circus, invented the act that he got his name from the tube. It would go on to be nicknamed Bile Beer at Lollapalooza, and several stars of the time, including Eddie Vedder, Flea, Chris Cornell, all drank Matt Crowley's Bio Beer. Now, when Matt retired from the Jim Rose Circus, the Bio beer act was taken over by the Enigma. Some of you might know him. He used to live here in Austin as well. When the Enigma left the Jim Rose Circus, I was called upon to be the third person in history to learn and perform this act. This was in 1998. Since that time, everyone else has quit. So I hold the distinction of having pumped my stomach more times than anyone else known in the history of the world.

[David Farrier]

That's a Guinness World Record. That should be in there. Oh, really?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

It's the bouquet.

[Rob]

I can smell it from here.

[David Farrier]

I'm not handling this well.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

I don't. You know, most people like their. Their beer cold, but I do prefer mine body temperature. It's like good sake. 98.6 right here.

[David Farrier]

Thank you so much. I want to get rid of you. Thank you, lizard man. I'm so incredibly hungover today. And that was awful. Everything about that. You're amazing, though. Like, thank you so much for being here. I have about a million more.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

It's my absolute pleasure.

[David Farrier]

Do you feel okay after that?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Like, I do feel okay. I feel pretty good, actually. Yeah?

[Kim Rossmo]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Okay. So it's been in, it's been out, and it's back in again.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

It's recycling. Go green.

[David Farrier]

Oh, my God, look. Thank you. I'm going to get people to clap you off because I want to get the fuck out of here. We're going to have you back at the end for a Q and A. So if you have questions, sort them up. Oh, my.

[Rob]

You want to leave and then just.

[David Farrier]

Come on, Roswell. I really appreciate you being here for this. We have our final interview subject for the night. Austin has some pretty gnarly true crime stories going on. I think you stay, Rosabelle.

[Rob]

No, I'm supposed to talk to her now.

[David Farrier]

A little interview.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

I'm just so worried about the time we got.

[Rob]

We're good.

[David Farrier]

We got time.

[Rob]

We got time.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, we got time.

[Rob]

We're on schedule.

[David Farrier]

Rosabelle, you're here. We flew you all the way here. My God.

[Rosabelle]

I didn't prepare any tricks.

[David Farrier]

Something I thought we could talk about because I like in the world of the podcast, you are this wonderful voice at the other end of the line that picks up and puts up with us, but you also have an entire other life where you are creating and making amazing things. And I wanted to talk to you about one of your projects that you did in Manchester, a show you put on that I found the whole concept incredibly fascinating. What was it called?

[Rosabelle]

An inheritance.

[David Farrier]

And can you just talk about the concept, about the show and what this idea was?

[Rosabelle]

Yeah. So I made this work with two London based artists, Andy Field and Becky Darlington, who also do a lot of work with young people. And previously in Aotearoa, done a few installations with young people as well, public art installations. And Andy, Becky and I met during the pandemic because they were meant to bring a show to Aotearoa, but our borders were closed. And so I was the on the ground director for a show called News News News, which is where a whole bunch of 8 year olds make a live 6pm news bulletin and stream it. And it's actually. It's amazing. It was an amazing work to work on because kids can ask adults anything and adults can't be mad about it. So I remember there was one kid who was interviewing the. And he was just like, why don't you care about homeless people?

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rosabelle]

And, yeah, he had to answer it. So that's how Andy, Becky and I met. And then during the pandemic, we started chatting about this new show. I also lost heaps of work during that time because we couldn't really be in theaters or galleries. And so I was doing a lot of work with local Iwi or like local Mori tribes. And a lot of them were talking about their Hundred Year plan, which was kind of a new idea to me to think that far ahead. So, anyway, the idea of an inheritance is we worked with 500 young people across Greater Manchester to create an inheritance for children 100 years from now. And it's mostly knowledge based. Some of it's really silly, like really bad jokes and tips for how to get out of doing homework, what to do if someone at school is mean to you. But some of it's also really profound, like, you know, are there still refugees in the future? Do you still have flowers? Are you happy? And the gallery that we presented the inheritance in is actually going to store it for 100 years and represent it for its intended recipients, which will be

[David Farrier]

such a bizarre thing to see what marries up to those original predictions and questions and what is entirely different as well.

[Rosabelle]

Yeah, yeah. Well, one of the parts of the installation is we worked with a amazing sound composer who David's also worked with Lachlan Anderson, and we worked with the kids to identify sounds they thought wouldn't exist in 100 years, which was already such a buzzy conversation because they were like, well, we won't hear wind in 100 years because everything will be controlled by robots. So the sound of wind, the sound of a diesel car, like a petrol car, the sound of a frying pan, because everything will just come fully formed. So, yeah, it's just like. It's fascinating thinking about how smart kids are and how often we do not take them seriously in spaces that are deemed for adults.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, fucking way.

[Rob]

Was there anything you had to say no to them that they wanted to put in?

[Rosabelle]

There were some really complicated pictures for how to do TikTok dances that we were like, kids in the future aren't going to understand that. That's probably it.

[David Farrier]

Did it make you overall, did you come out of it Thinking, yeah, holy shit. Like, the kids are okay and like, these are good brains. Or was it like. Because also the other aspect of it is, like, they're also. You're looking at it. And some of these kids are seeing incredibly depressing futures as well, which is surreal.

[Rosabelle]

Yeah. We often work with 8 and 9 year olds because that's the age at which you have the strongest, like, black and white, moral, like, sense of justice. And so it was really profound. We did this work. We were working with the young people around 2020, and the number of kids who were talking about Palestine who were worried about World War 3 did make me feel. I mean, made me feel really sad that that's something that's so present in their mind, but also made me feel hopeful about the future.

[David Farrier]

And I saw the. I was in Manchester and I saw the work and it was fucking amazing. And I wanted to travel because you could do this more, right? This could be in other places, technically, this model.

[Rosabelle]

Yeah, that's the idea.

[Kim Rossmo]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

That's so cool. Rosabelle, you're so smart and you blow my mind. And I can't believe you put up with me calling you with, like, stupid questions. And most of the time you pick up the phone, it blows my mind

[Rosabelle]

because I think you're calling for friendship

[David Farrier]

sometimes. I am Roosevelt. Thank you so much. We're going to have you back at the very end for a Q and A. You're the best. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors introducing Taco Bell's new Jalapeno citrus Salsa with bright citrus, real red jalapenos, guajillo chiles. Usually you add sauce to the food, but when the sauce is this good, the food is just there to get the sauce to your mouth. That rolled quesadilla. Not a rolled quesadilla anymore. Now it's a sauce shovel. Taco Bell's Jalapeno Citrus Salsa. Get it with any item on the Cantina chicken menu while it's here. The participating U.S. taco Bell locations for a limited time only while supplies last contact store for availability.

[Rosabelle]

This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

a real Shot at getting it.

[Rosabelle]

Get [e-mail], own the dream.

[David Farrier]

Our final guest of the night. Quite a packed topic, quite intense. A lot of true crime in Austin going on. And there's kind of two stories I want to talk about here in this final interview. Number one, the rainy street ripper, essentially. In 2022, six bodies of men with similar physical descriptions were found in a concentrated area of Lady Bird Lake here in Austin. The following year, five more bodies turned up. As the death toll rose, locals couldn't help but wonder if there was some kind of serial killer involved. And so the idea of the Rainy Street Ripper was born. So there's the Rainy Street Ripper case I'm talking about. And then there's another case, the yogurt shop murders. And 91, four teenage girls were working a strip mall yogurt shop. They were shot and killed. And it became Austin's most well known cold case. It remained unsolved for over three decades until last year when the case was finally solved. So you got these two cases. One was thought to be a serial killer and probably definitely isn't. The other, no one knew what the fuck was going on. And it did end up being a serial killer. So to talk about this, who knows this space incredibly well is Kim Rossmo. He's a professor in the School of Criminal justice and Criminology. Uh oh, did I say something wrong? Oh, he's your professor. That's fucking cool. We've got your professor. He's back. He's a professor in the School of Criminal justice and Criminology at Texas State University and a retired detective inspector from the Vancouver Police Department. He knows both cases well. Kim Rossmo, welcome to the stage. Now. Thank you so much for being here. These are two quite chunky cases, but what I like about it is that one of these things was thought to be a serial killer and you poking around and that indicated it wasn't. And then you had this other case that no one knew what was going on. Did he end up being a serial killer? Where do we even begin?

[Kim Rossmo]

Well, I guess it's always about the next case. So the focus needs to be on true crime, real crime, not social media creations. Because a serial murder case is going to cost tens of millions of dollars, which is taxpayers dollars. And unless you want your tax dollars to go up, you are diverting stuff away from real crimes if you're pursuing chimeras. And Ms. So that was part of the focus I had as detective inspector with Vancouver. Had a big case that I had involvement with. Regarding a number of women who'd gone missing, street sex trade workers. And there was disagreement of whether they were just missing, traveling, or they actually had been victimized. And we analyzed it statistically and concluded, no, these are very likely the victims of a serial killer. And they were. The pig farm serial killers became known Canada's biggest serial murder case. So I wanted to apply the same techniques to the missing women case. I mean, sorry to that. We're using the missing women case, but the same techniques that were used there on the rainy street ripper. And I talked to the chief of the Austin police department. They agreed to cooperate. I said, whatever we find, we have to agree is going to be disclosed to the public. They were very happy with that. And turned out we didn't find any evidence, any indicators. The drowning rates in Austin are just normal, what you would typically expect. We also found about a dozen other cases, from the New England serial killer to the smiley face serial killer to the recent Houston bayou horror. I'd like to know who comes up with these names. The names are always incredible, and they're all, again, fabrication. Serial killers are a problem, but they don't drown people. They stab them, they shoot them, they strangle them. But then you get something like the Austin yogurt shop murders, which were initially linked to four teenage boys, kind of hung around in a nearby mall. And two of them were charged and convicted and spent years in prison for a crime they were innocent of. And it turned out that there was a serial killer in town briefly who'd done other murders in other states. And that was a very difficult thing to put together. So what we want to know is, we got a new crime tomorrow. What is it? Is it just an accidental drowning? Is it a murder one off? Is it a serial killer? And these are challenges. They're analytic challenges. They're procedural and policy challenges. But we want to get it right. We need to find the truth, and we need to therefore focus our resources in things that will make the public safer.

[David Farrier]

You came up with sort of an insane formula that's named after you, right? To sort of. Am I correct?

[Kim Rossmo]

Yes.

[David Farrier]

What it's called, I think the Internet

[Kim Rossmo]

dubbed it Rossmol's algorithm.

[David Farrier]

I looked at it. It looks incredibly complicated. Can you just briefly explain how that works and what it does?

[Kim Rossmo]

Yes. This is the core of what we call geographic profiling. So if you have an unsolved case, you've probably heard of psychological profiling or behavioral profiling, which is looking at the unsolved crimes and Trying to figure out the who. Geographic profiling asks a parallel question. If we look at the actual locations of a series of crimes, what does that tell us about where the offender lives or is based? So in that way, we can actually manipulate a lot of data and search through such things. We applied it to the Rainy Street Ripper crimes, but it didn't show anything that made any sense. So that was just another angle to take a look at it. We sometimes get caught up in the television depictions of detectives, but it's all about information. They're usually team efforts. I have to give a lot of credit to Detective Dan Jackson of the Austin Police Department Cold Case Unit, who solved the case. And I met him a few years ago, and I had not been happy with some of the reactions of APD towards this case. They still seem stuck on the four kids. And I talked to Danny, says, what do you think? And he says, I don't know. I have an open mind. I said, that's what I want to hear.

[David Farrier]

So just really quickly, how did it get traced to that serial killer? Was it a bunch of random things, 30 years unsolved? Suddenly, last year, boom.

[Kim Rossmo]

You solve crimes through evidence, not through gut instinct and psychics or any of that stuff. Danny was just reviewing the cases, noticed there was some ballistics evidence from a shell casing recovered from a drain. He wondered if there'd been improvements in atf. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms Technology submitted it. They got a match to another crime, I believe in Kentucky. Then, through some DNA analysis, particularly forensic investigative genetic genealogy, where they can trace people through distant ancestors, they were able to link the crimes to a guy called Brashears, who turned out had committed at least eight murders and had moved around Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri. Was a very horrible predator that had done all sorts of sexual assaults and murders. But he wasn't really on our radar screen in Texas.

[David Farrier]

And now he's caught and not coming out again.

[Kim Rossmo]

He committed suicide some years ago.

[David Farrier]

Fucking hell.

[Kim Rossmo]

So that's the end of that, though there's a little. You always want to make them face justice, but I guess he's facing a different type of justice.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, Americans who get caught often seem to do that. It's very frustrating. Epstein, et cetera, Rainy Street Ripper. Is it frustrating for you when, like, that legend is sort of set now? It's got, like, a catchy name. Even though you have proven with your research that it is not a serial killer, that kind of idea sticks. Is that annoying to you when that sort of is out of the bag? And it just is going to never go away.

[Kim Rossmo]

I think so. I mean, it's all about the truth. You don't get justice without the truth. And because you're not always at a crime scene, you can only work with the evidence and the information that you have. But if our focus is here when it should be here, because there are real, there are lots, something like 25,000 unsolved murders in Texas and about a quarter of a million unsolved murders in the entire United States. That's where our focus has to be. Not on something created on social media for clicks. They're monetized crime. And I really, as a former police officer who's actually been at these scenes, I get very resentful at people that try to monetize and commercialize crime, turn it into entertainment, into clickbait. Because there's, as somebody said, behind your TikTok is a real victim. A mother, a wife, daughter, sister.

[David Farrier]

How do you find the obsession on with. With streamers, with true crime and that whole, the whole podcast scene and all of it, do you find it. Is there any like the good versus the not so good? Is there anything in that?

[Kim Rossmo]

Well, I would say as someone who works in the field, as a professor, I think that's good. It's interesting. I think though there are focus if you want to get a lot of interest, have an unsolved crime once you've solved the crime. For example, the Golden State Killer in California, that got a lot of attention and it all dropped off once they arrested d'. Angelo. So you need a mystery. It's got to be a high profile crime for whatever reason and that's all fine. It's just sometimes. Well, I currently am running a cold case investigations graduate course and the students handed in their last assignment, which was go to a social media site and find all the thinking errors that we've identified in wrongful convictions and see what. And they just, I'm just marking them now and it's fascinating. So jumping to conclusions, wrong assumptions, what's called a suspect led investigation where rather than following the evidence, you just look at the suspect and you try to find connections there. Tunnel vision, confirmation bias, these are all things that would just get you into a lot of trouble if they were actually detectives, but they seem to do it and then you've got on social media forums, groupthink, everyone and if they step out of line, someone will often try to bash them back into line and that's not healthy at all. That's not a good valid discussion. Zaina Rousseau is here tonight. One of my doctoral students studying cold case, she said, you know, the people that post every now and then often have good comments, valid concerns or things to think about. The people that are posting all the time are the ones that are full of it.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, more garbage in the mix with the insane crime rates and unsolved crimes you mentioned earlier. Is there any hope of keeping up with this? Obviously technology and understanding of how to solve crimes I imagine is getting better, but also there's a lot of killing going on out there. Is it a losing kind of battle to get to the bottom of this stuff?

[Kim Rossmo]

So our murder rates actually peaked in 1991, so they're down considerably from then. So we've got to put it in perspective. However, certain groups are much higher risk. So for example, we found that if you are a street prostitute, your murder risk rate is about 100 times that of the average woman. So off the charts for certain people. For most of us, not so much. But it's important to remember this is another frustrating point. The number one group that research shows that will solve a crime, are you the public. It makes sense. There's more of you out there. You see things all the time. Number two group were patrol officers. Third group were detectives who actually then have to pull it all together. So it's all of our responsibility and it's not the police need to do. No, we all need to do more and we need to cooperate in a professional, logical fashion. That is something I think we really need to think carefully about. We also need to be concerned about high risk marginal groups who are often the ones that are most likely to be targeted for rape, sexual assault, robbery, murder. And one of the problems I had, I mentioned the missing women case in Vancouver because they were aboriginal sex trade victims, many of them. No, all of them drug addicted. It was hard to get the system to respond accordingly.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, yeah, you're just trapped in these systems all the time. Right. Biggest, just finally biggest misconception when it comes to the kind of work that you do when it comes to investigating crimes. I feel like I just have been brainwashed from watching every sort of drama and true crime show around. Is there something that frustrates you when you watch those shows and the way people perceive what you people like you do?

[Kim Rossmo]

Well, as I tell my students, just get. Because you watch Law and Order doesn't mean you know how to actually solve a case.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Thank you so much. I want you to stay here and thank you so much for coming. I want to Bring all our guests back out again. I think Merlin might have, because he's just got back from expedition. I think he's probably gone to bed. But can everyone else come back? Because I want to open it up to you guys, because I imagine you have questions for all of our guests tonight, including. I mean, you can ask questions of Rob and I, but I think these humans are much more interesting. And so, humans, the beer is inside you still. Okay, that's good.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

It's all inside me.

[David Farrier]

Do you have any questions? It's super bright, but I think I can maybe see some hands. Like, throw your hand up. If you have a question right there, just yell it out, and I'll repeat it back. Yeah. Was it worth having an egg cracked on your head, Rosabelle, or helping lizard man take the beer out of his stomach? Two very normal things to say.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Yeah.

[Rosabelle]

I don't know if anything will ever be as hurtful as when my close friend David cracked an egg on my hairs.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Oh, emotional damage.

[Rosabelle]

Wow.

[David Farrier]

Thanks for that question. Okay. Hand in the air down here. Yeah. Lizard man, how was your work with Ripley's Believe it or Not?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

How was my work with Ripley's Believe it or Not? I mean, overall, really good for me, but there was a lot of back and forth over the years on different issues, because before I started working with Ripley's in the late 90s, early 2000s, they had pretty much completely moved away from, I guess, human talent. Like, they didn't deal with people anymore. There was more exhibits in the museums like that. And I. I led a very big push along with other people like Todd Robin, making this out like it was all me. Right. But a lot of us were pushing for, like, hey, Ripley's is hitting right now with the TV show back in the early 2000s. Now is the perfect time to bring back what made Ripley's great, in my opinion, which are the stories. The people of Ripley's, even, they begrudgingly kind of came along. There were a lot of successes along the way. There's. There are some misses too. I would say that I don't want to ruin anyone's enjoyment of the company, but for me, it became very much a work environment. Like, at first, I came in as a kid who would watch Ripley's, and it was part of the big inspiration of why I do what I do and what I want to do. And, you know, then once I was inside and seeing how the sausage was made and being the sausage wasn't that great. So that's why, like, right now, there are still Statues of me in the museums just to use the content that they own. But I don't have a working relationship with them as a company at this point, which is primarily over things like creative differences and just business ethics, a way of doing things.

[David Farrier]

I think it's a very contained answer.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Yeah, I tried

[David Farrier]

right at the front here. So the question was, there is a very big Body farm here in Texas. Does that bleed into your work at all?

[Kim Rossmo]

In a way. The Body Farm is run by a forensic anthropology center who actually have some of their graduate students in my current class. I have a lot of respect for them. They are going to provide, just like a medical examiner or a DNA lab person, the core information that we need to think about crimes. And I think there's a lot of valuable information that their research can generate. And we are. We work with them tangentially. They're more of a hard science, we're a bit more of a social science. But what they do is great stuff.

[David Farrier]

Anyone out there at the back, you just yell it out. Yeah. How did I get my team to finish making Tickled when we were facing a lot of sort of legal suing and scare tactics? It was just. We were really pigheaded about it and we were kind of curious. We were like, they're flying New Zealanders to LA to take part in competitive endurance tickling. I poked my nose in a little bit. The person running the competition, which was like, all young male men tickling, got offended because they were like, you're gay, so you're evil. That was weird. And then they end up flying people from New York and lawyers to Auckland, New Zealand. It's like, of course. I'm like, they're forcing us to keep filming. So it's just like. And also, the joy of being a journalist in New Zealand is like, you get paid shit. So I had nothing to lose, really. It's not like, that's the joy. When you're sort of a scrappy doc team or you're working on a story. If you don't have a lot of resources, there's not a lot to lose, really. Like, what's the worst thing that's going to happen? And so we pressed on and I'm glad we did. Tickled is 10 years old this year, which is cool. I think it's on. I don't know where it is. It's on streaming. Google it, you'll find it. Hello? What was that?

[Rob]

Sorry?

[David Farrier]

What was that question?

[Rob]

They want to know her email.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Oh,

[David Farrier]

okay, look, this is a tease. Look, this is A tease. Okay. And you're gonna hate me for this. I think we do that for Patreon. We need to survive this podcast. Like, it kind of needs. Like, we're here. Rosabelle is here, literally, because of Patreon.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Do it for Patreon.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. So, Patreon, we'll sort it out.

[Rob]

You hear it? Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. Rosewell, I saved you for another week. Also, it's such a good email. It's horrific. It'll change the way you think about her. Other questions right there. Your American Girl doll is named Summer, correct? Yeah, my American Girl doll is named Summer. Yes.

[Rosabelle]

Did you pick her outfit tonight or.

[David Farrier]

She travels with me everywhere.

[Rosabelle]

But does she wear the same outfit or do you.

[David Farrier]

Same outfit. Yeah. I only have the one outfit. Yeah, I don't have a change of outfits. Look, I don't have the money involved to buy all the fits for Summer. Yeah, I'll think about getting some new fits. She's happy, though.

[Rob]

Can you get a few shoes at some point?

[David Farrier]

Yeah, I lost the shoes. I think your kid flashed them down the toilet. He did last time.

[Merlin Tuttle]

Yeah.

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

Can you get a Patreon to get her a wardrobe?

[David Farrier]

That's a good idea. That's a good idea. How about this?

[Lizardman (Eric Sprague)]

You buy her a wardrobe, you get the email.

[David Farrier]

There you go. Yeah, I like this. At the back. Yell it out. The question was, how is AI going to play into solving cases, helping or hindering or whatever?

[Kim Rossmo]

So it's definitely a factor in something we're currently exploring in terms of research and funding. The trouble is that AI needs to learn large. Large language models need to learn from what's on the Internet. A lot of this stuff is not on the Internet. Even if you have a case, and we have some student interns who are working with the Office of Attorney General's Cold Case Unit, they have to scan everything like it's just papers in a box. And so you can't even get them into a computer, so to speak, let alone have AI look at them. I suspect that business is going to oversell what AI can do. But there'll be focused questions, especially regarding management of information that is essential. And one of the slides I like to show my classes is a one case. It's called the highway of Tears in British Columbia, and it's a room filled with boxes on multiple shelves. So that is the case file for one investigation. So this stuff is huge. AI can maybe help focus, and that will be valuable. But right now, it's still some ways away from actually being able to solve a case.

[David Farrier]

We've got time for one final question. Rob and I, after the show, will come out by the t shirts in 15 minutes. Let us have a wee and debrief and that kind of thing. Thank you for coming and making us feel so welcome. My God, it's legitimately amazing. And mainly I'm just so grateful that you're so kind to our guests and to Rosabelle. And I was so worried you're gonna boo Rosabelle when she came out, but you're so happy. No, it's not Hayden. That wouldn't happen. Final question, Rob. No, you put. You choose. I'm really bad at choosing whoever's loudest

[Rob]

out of you three. What subject are you most excited to cover?

[David Farrier]

I want to do something with. With guns in America because it's deranged, but also everything's been done already, and I'm just trying to find a fresh way in. There was an event I missed a couple of weeks ago in California, which is like, a bunch of sort of gun enthusiasts with, like, the biggest guns. So, like, cannons and giant things. They all just meet in the desert and just fire things, like into the. I don't know, just into nothingness. And that seemed like a really interesting place because these were just people that loved the explosions of it all, but lame answer. I didn't go, maybe next year. But guns is it. I'm trying to find a way into guns because that. About this country, you have some issues. And there's one very enthusiastic person here. Yes. Yell it out. Oh, okay. So I've got. Have I solved the ghost in my apartment? Sometimes on this podcast, I just talk shit. And I do wake up with your a. And there's no ghost. Ghosts aren't real. What the fuck? Like, clearly they're not real. I'm sorry, but it's like, it's very funny to me that I could just. And then the more I talked about it and everyone was like, oh, my God, it's an old man that comes in. And I'm like, yeah, he's an old man. I got a witch in. And she said it was an old man. And it's like, clearly. No, no. But great question. And I. Sorry for talking shit on the show. Thank you for coming so much, and thanks to all my wonderful guests. Austin, you're beautiful. Thank you so much. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

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