New York Trash

Summary

Flightless Bird Episode Summary

Podcast: Flightless Bird
Host: David Farrier
Cohost: Rob
Episode: New York Trash
Date: July 7, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, David Farrier dives into the world of New York City trash—what makes the city’s garbage situation so distinctive, infamous, and, in some ways, uniquely American. With a focus on the Brooklyn Bridge’s notorious “love lock” problem, David meets a local, Ellen, who takes it upon herself to rid the bridge of locks (and plenty of unexpected trash). The episode explores cultural differences around waste, civic responsibility, and how trash collection reflects broader societal quirks, all told through personal anecdotes, outsider observations, and a signature blend of humor and curiosity.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

The Trash Situation in American Cities

• Cultural Linguistics:
  • David notes in New Zealand "trash" is called "rubbish," and "trash cans" are "bins."
    • [02:44 A]: “In New Zealand, we don’t call trash trash, we call it rubbish…”
• Regional Variations:
  • Rob discusses differences in trash handling in LA, Chicago, and New York.
    • LA: Bins for recycling, compost, and garbage; recent push for composting.
      • Little kitchen compost bins handed out, but they create issues with flies and smells.
    • Chicago: Big communal dumpsters; more city infrastructure.
    • New York: Street trash goes directly into bags on the curb—critically no bins for decades.

Quote
“It was just a pile of—looks like almost loose trash.”
— Rob, describing New York’s street garbage approach [10:25 C]

• Compost Revolution in LA:
  • Rob gifts his partner a high-tech "mill" that incinerates compost and prevents flies.
    • “But it has solved the fly problem. Solved the smell problem.” [08:43 C]

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New York’s Unique Relationship with Trash

• Street Trash & Rats:

  • In NYC, trash bags go directly on the curb, not in bins—leading to rat infestations and foul smells.
  • [11:01 A]: “To New York’s credit, I did find out…they’re changing—New York is changing. …putting their trash in plastic bins.”

• Romanticization & Outsider’s Observations:

  • David is bewildered by NYC’s acceptance of trash as part of its “gritty” persona.
    • [12:30 A]: “My hot take is that New Yorkers are so full of their own drama…they’ve just taken [trash] on board as their personality.”

• Good with the Bad:

  • Both hosts briefly praise NYC’s public parks, transit, and people—before returning to the trash rant.

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Spotlight: The Brooklyn Bridge Love Locks

• Introducing Ellen, the Trash Crusader:

  • Ellen, a local Brooklynite, is passionate about cleaning the bridge and removing love locks—decorative “romantic” padlocks attached by couples.
  • She views love locks (and associated trash) as a form of pollution, not art.
  • “Sometimes people almost romanticize the grunge of New York, but we do deserve to not be walking down, like, pissed on streets and having crap everywhere.” — Ellen [14:56 B]

• Love Locks as a Problem:

  • Backstory: Locks have caused structural issues—part of the bridge once collapsed under their weight.
    • City efforts (removal, fines) have failed to curb the trend.
  • With only modest city response, Ellen arms herself with bolt cutters and starts daily trash patrols.

• What Counts as Trash?

  • Ellen's definition: Anything not original bridge structure—including locks, hair ties, underwear, tampons, and random detritus.
  • “It’s a cacophony of trash blowing in the wind.” — Ellen [26:05 B]

• Volunteer Efforts & Public Reaction

  • Most reactions in person are supportive; online, she’s criticized for being anti-love or anti-sentiment.
  • With partner Max, they’ve removed over 1,200 lbs of locks.
    • Max’s power tools lead to run-ins with police—but their efforts dramatically reduced visible trash.

Memorable Exchange:
David: “If every time you broke a lock that relationship broke up, would you still do it?”
Ellen: “Yes. Because if your relationship is being propped up by crap that’s tied to a bridge, babe, that’s not your relationship.”
— [31:14 A/B]

• Creative Solutions:
  • Ellen suggests designated structures for locks, as seen in South Korea, to channel public expressions more sustainably.

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Trash, Infrastructure, and Cultural Oddities

• Why New York is Overwhelmed:

  • The city’s lack of alleys makes bin placement difficult.
  • NYC’s trash infrastructure is rooted in its age—built long before modern sanitation.
  • [43:00 C/A]: “Where in New York would you even put the trash bin? …these new plastic bins…where are they going to put them?”

• Packaging Waste & American Habits:

  • David, living alone, is shocked by the personal trash he generates—much from excessive packaging and single-serve items.
    • Rob echoes complaints about individually packaged contacts and over-wrapping.

• Surprising Stats:

  • Michigan tops states for landfill waste per capita—not NYC.
    • New York’s gnarled system might actually keep per capita landfill waste lower than Midwest states.

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Broader Trash Trivia and Related Traditions

• Love Locks Elsewhere:

  • New Zealand’s answer: the Kadrona Bra Fence, where tourists hang bras on a rural fence.
    • "So New Zealand doesn’t do locks. We do bras." — David [49:00 A]

• Shoe Tossing:

  • The urban myth that shoes over power lines signal gang turf or drug houses is mostly myth, with origins ranging from military tradition to random mischief.

• Elephants and NYC History:

  • Side anecdotes: P.T. Barnum marching elephants across the Brooklyn Bridge to prove its strength; the infamous early film “Electrocuting an Elephant” (1903).

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Reflections on Recycling and Civic Engagement

• Recycling Skepticism:

  • Both hosts (and Ellen) point out how recycling often fails to meet its idealistic promises—much ends up in landfills anyway.
    • “It’s rubbish, to make you think it’s okay…but it’s all kind of bullshit.” — David [52:12 A]

• Volunteer Impact:

  • Ellen: “I’m nobody. I’m just some lady—and you can have an impact.” [33:30 B]
  • The episode highlights how motivated individuals can effect visible change in public spaces.

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Notable Quotes

• “I think that’s really stretching the definition of trash, isn’t it? That’s someone’s declaring their love, and she’s just going about destroying it all.”
  — Rosabelle [00:38 B]

• “No one thinks about trash collection…until there’s a problem.”
  — David [16:12 A]

• “Tourists love doing that shit at various places around the world. But on the Brooklyn Bridge, it had gotten truly feral.”
  — David [23:22 A]

• “It’s literally garbage. And when it rains, it deteriorates and it falls into the east river, which is already disgusting.”
  — Ellen [25:49 B]

• “If your relationship is being propped up by crap that’s tied to a bridge, babe, that’s not your relationship.”
  — Ellen [31:21 B]

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Key Timestamps

• [02:44] Linguistics: "trash" vs. "rubbish," trash can vs. bin
• [04:38] Urban trash differences: LA, Chicago, New York
• [07:42] Compost bin woes in LA
• [10:12] New York's street trash: confusion and disgust
• [11:16] NYC’s pivot to bins to combat rats
• [12:30] New Yorkers’ relationship to stress and trash
• [14:36] Interview: Ellen, Brooklyn trash crusader
• [22:08] Origins of love locks and environmental impact
• [25:14] Ellen’s bolt cutter crusade begins
• [29:39] Quantity of locks removed; police hassles
• [31:05] City fines, enforcement (or lack thereof)
• [32:08] Ellen on ongoing mission, creative solutions
• [43:00] Logistical challenges: Where could NYC put bins?
• [52:12] Recycling realities: “It’s all kind of bullshit…”
• [33:30] “I’m just some lady—and you can have an impact.” (Ellen)

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Tone & Style

The episode is marked by playful banter, cross-cultural curiosity, and a willingness to digress into related oddities (from bra fences to shoe tossing and elephant parades). David’s Kiwi outsider perspective is balanced by Rob’s American (but also slightly bemused) voice. Humor is ever-present—even when discussing tampons zip-tied to a New York landmark.

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Memorable Moments

• David learning what “bolt cutters” are firsthand.
• Recurring joke: If removing a love lock broke up the relationship, would Ellen feel bad? (“No…”)
• The various wild objects found affixed to the Brooklyn Bridge: “tampons, unused…condoms, women’s underwear, socks, receipts…”
• Ellen's commitment to her self-appointed mission, and her calm deflection of critics.
• Discussion of New Zealand’s bra fence tradition as a quirky, national parallel to love locks.
• A brief but hilarious (and dark) aside into the myth-laden history of public elephant electrocution film.

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Conclusions & Takeaways

• America’s relationship with trash is as much cultural as infrastructural—what gets called “trash,” where it can go, who is responsible, and who cares.
• In NYC, old systems, scale, and civic inertia make the trash problem uniquely challenging—and uniquely visible.
• The story of Ellen and the love lock crusade underscores how individual citizens can change (and clean up) their environment, even when governments lag behind.
• The love lock phenomenon illustrates the blurry line between public art, sentimentality, and pollution—a tension found throughout American (and global) cityscapes.
• Despite frustrations, the overall tone is one of affectionate critique, where even gross topics get the Flightless Bird blend of warmth and wit.

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Feedback, corrections, or trash-related stories? The hosts welcome listener mail at [e-mail].

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Transcript

[A]

Hi. Hi, Rosabelle. We're doing an episode about trash. About rubbish.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I thought I'd call you, but more specifically, I kind of focus on a woman who is obsessed with cleaning all the love locks off the Brooklyn Bridge that tourists have put on there. And I'm just wondering.

[B]

Oh, like she unclips them.

[A]

Yeah. She has bolt cutters and she just. She hates all the trash. Including the love locks. Curious if you have any thoughts on love locks and if you've ever put a love lock on anything, including maybe the Brooklyn Bridge.

[B]

I mean, I've never and probably never would do that, but I think that's really stretching the definition of trash, isn't it? That's someone's declaring their love and she's just going about destroying it all.

[A]

Yeah. Imagine if every time she chopped off a love lock, the relationship broke up. That could be a good movie.

[B]

It might even be happening. You just don't know. Cause they don't know that their love lock has been thrown into the rubbish.

[A]

No. And suddenly they just have this horrific fight and they don't know why they're fighting, but it's because she's just chopped the love lock off.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. This explains all my last relationships, because I never had a love lock in the first place.

[A]

Well, that's where you've been going wrong, Rosabelle. I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America. And I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, about a month ago, I found myself in New York City. And as is the case, whenever I'm in a different city in the us I try to understand elements of it a little bit better. And for me, this time, I started to think about trash. Because as you walk around New York, you can't help but notice trash everywhere. Big, foul smelling bags of New York's leftovers. Then there are the rats, of course, which love the trash. Tales of their underground exploits and rat kings becoming embedded in the culture of New York City. And as I was thinking about this, I met up with a New Yorker truly sick of another side of the city's trash. All the love locks and other crap people insist on leaving stuck to the Brooklyn Bridge. And so off I set to the Brooklyn Bridge to find out more about love, love locks, trash and rats. So prepare to start thinking about garbage and what makes garbage garbage. Because this is the New York trash. Episod.

[C]

Flightless, flightless bird Touch down in America.

[A]

I'm a flightless bird. Touchdown in America. I should say in New Zealand, we don't call trash trash, we call it rubbish.

[C]

Yeah, I'm aware.

[A]

I've heard you when I say rubbish. Like when would an American say rubbish?

[C]

It'd be more as like an adjective to describe something.

[A]

Oh, like you're, you're so. That guy's so rubbish. Yeah, it was a rubbish movie.

[C]

It doesn't sound very American, but that's, that's where I would connect the term more.

[A]

We also call a trash can a bin. Put your rubbish in the bin, Rob, Stop throwing your rubbish on the floor.

[C]

We've got bins.

[A]

You've got bins? I thought you had trash cans.

[C]

We have trash cans though, I think is like old fashioned. Like those tin ones with the actual lid.

[A]

Like, okay, so you've got bins.

[C]

We've got the trash bins now that have like, okay, the lid that opens. So is this an episode on trash or is this an episode with your gripe about people putting locks on a bridge? On the bridge?

[A]

That much episode is. I've done something I tend to do on the show where I focus on a documentary. Super specific, in this case, my hatred. Actually, to be fair, I don't have a hatred of this.

[C]

Your hatred of love?

[A]

My hatred of love in general. Yeah. Love. Like, oh God, who's in love? What's love? What is this thing? No, to be fair, I heard about a woman who had made it her purpose over the last year to clean up all the shit on the Brooklyn Bridge, and that includes all the love locks that tourists leave on there. I was largely unaware of this lock problem until I met this woman. And I thought, you've got someone so motivated to like clean up all this. It just got me thinking in very broad terms about trash in general. And I thought it's just a good excuse for us to rant about trash a little bit.

[B]

Right?

[C]

Yeah. Well, so it's interesting seeing how different parts of the country handle trash because Chicago, living in the city.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Handled trash much differently than LA versus much differently than when I go to New York.

[A]

What jumped out at you as a difference between Chicago and la? Is it the. Literally the bins, the way you sort it?

[C]

Yeah. So L. A is much more like how we handle trash in the suburbs. In Chicago, where it's bins and you're putting out your recycling.

[A]

Different color bins, you black bin, your blue bin, your green bin.

[C]

Yeah. And I think growing up it was just the recycling and regular garbage. Now in LA we have the compost bin, which is great. And they're we just got really pushing.

[A]

That just happened last year.

[B]

No.

[A]

Is it last year?

[C]

It's recent.

[A]

My apartment, I have. Have this tiny little. It's like a bucket size thing.

[C]

Yeah. They gave them out to everyone, right?

[A]

Yeah. Hundreds of thousands of these things.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I always forget that I've got it. It sits under the sink. I forget that it's the thing I should be using, which is terrible.

[C]

I have a little bit. Natalie and I have gotten in arguments.

[A]

I want to know about.

[C]

About this. Well, so there was always the. So you've got the black bins in la, which is your regular trash.

[A]

Just filth. You're throwing condoms in there. You're throwing your packaging. Horrible packaging. Just like.

[C]

But not cardboard. Because the cardboard goes in our blue bin.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Our recycling bin.

[A]

But black bins are like the foulest. You open up the lid of a black bin, you don't want to be sniffing in there.

[C]

Dog waste is dog waste normally just stuck to the bottom of the black bin.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then we have green bin, which I think up until recently. Grass, I consider it. Yeah. Landscaping oranges. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Anything that's going to rot into the ground and return to nature in some way.

[C]

Yeah. But I think then LA has done this big push for composting any of your food.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And gave out those containers. Natalie had it on her counter and it was driving me nuts because we would just get flies. We'd have little flies fucking those little flies.

[A]

Little annoying, slow moving, horrible little things.

[C]

Yes. Because the lid has like ventilation holes in them too. So they come out of there and then it just smells. And I was like, I'm all for compost and I know it's better for the environment.

[A]

Donate the planet. But you hate this horrifically smelly fruit fly breeding bed. Yeah.

[C]

I don't want our kitchen to smell disgusting.

[A]

This is a reasonable thing. I'm curious now how those have taken off in la, because I don't imagine you would be the only one that struggles with that in particular. Yes. And is the idea of that that you store this up in your kitchen and then you put it in the big green bin outside? Right.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So you empty into that. Which we did that for a while and I was like, I'm all for this.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

If we just can empty this frequently.

[A]

You got two children.

[C]

Well, yeah. I don't want it to smell.

[A]

I think that could be their task, is they get maybe a bit of pocket money if they empty that tiny bin into that big bin.

[C]

Right. But it was still flies. Still kind of gross. So for. I think it was mother's day one year.

[A]

Oh, God. I'm pretty worried about this.

[C]

This is great. I got her gift of this thing called a mill, which is like this big tower thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It's a big version of a compost bin.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Except it's like air sealed at the top.

[A]

I understand.

[C]

And every night clicks on very loudly and just incinerates everything right in it and then turns everything into this like, little cakey powder.

[A]

So it's literally, it is heat in there and it's. It's sort of burning it into a powder.

[C]

Yeah. I think it's got little gears that turn. It's. It's tall. And the bucket is still about the size of the compost bucket.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then the rest is just mechanics, whatever mechanical stuff.

[A]

Some kind of futuristic star wars style

[C]

recycling bin that's just burning the hell out of.

[A]

And where do you put your little nuggets? Do you just like throw them in the green bin then? Or do they go.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So then that fills up and then we just empty that into the green bin.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But it has solved the fly problem. Yeah, I like, solved the smell problem.

[A]

I mean, I currently have a fruit fly problem in my apartment. Although I think they came in, they hitched their ride in on a new plant. I got. My theories are coming out of the soil. I've now got these little sticky things that I put in the soil, covered in these horrible little fruit flies that just keep coming. They keep coming and coming and coming.

[C]

Do you have bananas?

[A]

I do, but it's not from the bananas. They always come in on bananas. It's their favorite way in is the banana. It's like the second that banana starts to get a little bit overripe, you're a little. I assume they're hatching on there, or are they coming in the window because they smell the banana?

[C]

I feel like we need a fly expert.

[A]

Yeah, we need a fly expert. Fly this bird chat at gmail dot com.

[C]

I feel like we're getting a little lost in this.

[A]

We are. We get. And look rubbish. It's a big topic.

[C]

That's l. A. Trash.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Chicago trash is different in my experience because it's much more city life. So there was always just big dumpsters you're throwing your trash into.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then sometimes wheeling those out.

[A]

We're talking big dumpsters.

[C]

Yes. The, like, I have one whole apartment complex is just throwing trash into this giant dumpster. Truck comes, takes it.

[A]

The truck always comes and picks them up. The Second, you're trying to record some voiceover for a podcast, by the way. That's the rule every time.

[C]

But then New York. I remember the first time going to New York, there was just trash on the street and I was so confused by it.

[A]

That was the wildest thing to me about New York is just the plastic bags that aren't thrown in a bin. They're not put in a giant trash can. They're just thrown onto the street.

[C]

Yeah. It's just a pile of. Looks like almost loose trash.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And that was. That was to. I think one of my biggest takeaways about my first trip to New York was, oh, the trash here is very different than anywhere I've ever been.

[A]

It's. It's like, it's foul. I mean, New York is this beautiful city that obviously a lot of people love, but they just love throwing their out onto the road. They just fling it seemingly from the restaurant or from your apartment. Just like go out, fling it onto the street in a big pile. And of course it's plastic, so it breaks.

[C]

Y.

[A]

Rats can nibble directly through and just eat it all.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

To New York's credit, I did find out while I was interviewing the main talent for the stock that New York have had the very amazing idea, I can't believe they didn't think of it already, of putting their trash in plastic bins. They're changing.

[C]

Oh, they are.

[A]

New York is changing.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Because after decades, why is the city covered in rats? Why does everything smell like.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, maybe it's these plastic bags. Maybe it's the trash all over our city.

[C]

Yeah. Well, is there an advantage to it? Like what? Do you get into that at all?

[A]

No, not at all. They just don't have the system. They just don't.

[C]

They just too many people, too many people throwing out organized just haven't come up with a plan. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, eventually though, bags find their way into a garbage truck and it gets taken away. It's just that interim is such a horrible time. But I think my hot take is that New Yorkers are just so full of their own drama. Like, marching around, like, furiously proud of how busy they are and how stressed they are. In la, in New Zealand, we're so happy. Like, we take pride in being a bit chilled out and having spare time. New York is like a badge of honor of being, like, really stressed. And so I don't think. And so in their mind, it's like we're gritty New Yorkers. Look at all that trash. Like one foot Away from us right now as we have a coffee. This is us. Like, we're real. And I think they've just taken it on board is their personality. And that personality is terrible.

[C]

Oh, you're really going for New York.

[A]

Yeah. New York has enough. I like. New York is so great. We're allowed to tear it down a little bit.

[C]

All right.

[A]

Especially when it comes to their litter all over the fucking streets.

[C]

Right. I mean, that's. That's my biggest problem with New York is just.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The trash situation so stinks. I just. Do we need to say, like, a couple nice things about New York before we criticize it intensely?

[A]

I like all the public parks that they have.

[C]

Public transit.

[A]

Oh, my God, the transport. Amazing.

[C]

We don't have that. We don't have that.

[A]

Well, no, to be fair to la, our public transport's getting better and better

[C]

and better, but it's not nowhere near New York.

[A]

My God, to be able to stumble out the door in New York and just not worry about being in a car.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Heaven. Yeah. We love New York. Some of my favorite people are in New York.

[C]

Yeah, people in New York are great. Oh, the people somehow more expensive than la.

[A]

Yeah. Smaller sizes for what you're paying for. We love New York, but it's absolutely filthy and disgusting.

[C]

Well, let's maybe find out why.

[A]

Yeah, well, let's look to balance it out. Let's talk to a New Yorker that doesn't like trash. And they set out. They didn't just yap about it on a podcast like we are. They went to actually do something about. Was a beautiful, invigorating New York spring morning when I found myself in a park in between Brooklyn Heights and Dumbo, staring at a memorial of William J. Gaynor, the 95th mayor of New York City, back in 1910. Someone tried to assassinate him back then, shooting him directly in the throat. But he lived on. The bullet lodged in his neck for the next three years. But we're not here to talk assassinations. We're here to talk trash. I was reminded of this by the trash can next to the statue emblazoned with the words do not litter. And as I stared at the trash can, I was approached by a woman clutching a large pair of bolt cutters. She was the woman I was here to see. Alan.

[B]

I am a New York native from Long island, but have been living in Brooklyn for 10 years. And I love Brooklyn.

[A]

We're here to talk about trash. New York does have a lot of trash. Like any big city, obviously, that's where the rats come from as well, all these big trash bags. Can you just explain that side of New York a little bit? Because it's always been a bit of a mystery to me.

[B]

I don't know what it comes from. It's like sometimes people almost romanticize the grunge of New York, but we do deserve to not be walking down, like, pissed on streets and having crap everywhere. And, I mean, trash is the most important thing that you can do for a city. If you don't get it under control, it's a health hazard and all these other things, but we just haven't gotten it quite right for the scale. I mean, we have a lot of trash. That's the problem. It's the quantity.

[A]

New York City produces more than 14 million tons of waste every year. And while many Americans put their waste in a plastic bin, New Yorkers seem to enjoy hurling it out onto the streets in large plastic bags where the rats can come out to feast on it. How much trash? About 44 million pounds of trash are flung onto the curb every day in New York City.

[B]

But even the little things, like you mentioned, trash in the bags on the streets. We only, like, recently paid a consulting firm a lot of money to do a study to tell us that, hey, maybe putting them in bins would help with the rats. And that will be implemented eventually, but not fully yet. And things in government take time. I mean, even in New York, the mob had ties to trash removal. So you need someone who is pushing from the outside as well. I don't think that we can rely on the government to do it on its own. It needs the public interest.

[A]

I think trash is such a funny thing because I think it's not something you really ever think about. Like, no one thinks about trash collection. Maybe people think about recycling, but I think people are cynical about that now too, because often it all ends up in the same landfill. And do you think that's a fair call?

[B]

I think that's a fair call. And I'm gonna shout out a teacher I had in grad school, Patricia Schrock, I got a master's in public admin, and she wrote a book about trash collection from the perspective of it being a hotly political thing to do. It's something that you have to get right. Where do you put it? How do you pick it up? Who picks it up? There's a lot of decisions that have to be made that impact everybody, but everyone takes it for granted. We just don't think about of the different types of trash and how much There is our neighborhood has a really active, what they call a buy nothing group which is basically instead of throwing it out, can somebody repurpose it or give it a second life or whatever? I think that folks are just not quite aware.

[A]

Clearly Ellen has thought a lot more about trash than your typical American. And part of the reason is that some very specific trash caught her attention on her daily walk. All the shit people attach to the Brooklyn Bridge. Stay tuned for more. Flightless Bird will be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Helix. Now I have just gone back from New Zealand where I didn't have my Helix mattress. I was on my, I was in my old, my old single bed with the softest, grossest mattress of all time. And all I could think the entire time was I want my Helix back. And now I have my Helix back and I love it. I'm sleeping on a midnight luxe. I got matched with this years ago. Now I haven't looked back and God, it's good to be back on that mattress.

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[A]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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[A]

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[A]

There's some very specific trash that really got your goat. Can you just explain how this came into your life and why it annoyed you.

[B]

Yeah, as I said, I live in Brooklyn Heights, so I'm quite close to the Brooklyn Bridge, I take it. Every day I started seeing an accumulation of these little hair ties that were tied into these sections of fencing that cover up some of the cables to keep people from climbing on them. And there were bits and bobs affixed to them. And it's akin to the love locks that you would see in Paris, where people put locks on the bridge because they're so in love and whatever.

[A]

What is up with that lock thing? Is it like, I'm locked into love with you? Do couples put them on together? I've actually never thought about love locks.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Couples put them on together as, like. I mean, maybe you can do it platonically as well, but I'd say a majority of them are romantic partners. And it's like our love is forever.

[A]

It's so funny. I feel like declarations of love are often at the expense of the environment, like this lock thing and then scrolling initials in poor trees and things like that. It's not great, is it?

[B]

No, it's awful. It happens in national parks, too.

[A]

Just say, I love you. That's a nice thing to say.

[B]

Exactly. I have a lot of love in my life. I've never once wanted to physically demark something to show that it's super weird. To me, the biggest accusation that I get is that a, I just hate love and that I have no sentimentality whatsoever. But that's not true. Like, I have tons of things in my apartment that I've held onto for years, but I'm not leaving it in the public square.

[A]

The thing is, you're not this curmudgeonly old witch.

[B]

No, not at all. Not at all. So there are locks on the bridge. I've seen them, but I hadn't seen trash quite as much. And over the course of the past year, it just built up to. And I'll show you pictures of this so you can have them if you're

[A]

watching on Spotify or YouTube, you can see photos of what Alan is talking about. Certain sections of the bridge just covered in trash.

[B]

The entire fencing area was just filled with debris.

[A]

Now, the Lovelocks thing has been going on for ages. Tourists love doing that shit at various places around the world. But on the Brooklyn Bridge, it had gotten truly feral. Back in 2016, a bit of the bridge fell off into traffic underneath. It fell because it was weighed down with locks. Ten years ago, NYPD Transportation Bureau chief Thomas M. Chan had this to say. The brilliant architect John Roebling designed the Brooklyn Bridge to be a safe structure that would endure for centuries. But these love locks pose a danger to pedestrians and motorists by adding stress to the bridge's structure. So the city started cutting the locks off. And signs went up threatening a hundred dollar fine for every lock. But the locks kept going up. The city fell behind.

[B]

I'm not begrudging the dot. I think they just don't have the resources and it's not the most important thing they do.

[A]

And as soon as one was cut off, more were put up in its place. Horned up tourists determined to demonstrate their love in a public way. And people started just attaching their trash to the bridge too. Nothing like an old soggy sock to say, I love you, darling. You're sort of walking by and you're noticing no one is cleaning this up and it's kind of annoying you.

[B]

Yeah. And you know when I am looking at some of the locks, you know, I can look at the year. And so some of them, I'm like, yeah, this has been here for like three years at this point. And so I know that they're not coming out and doing it.

[A]

Ellen, grasping her bolt cutters in front of me as we talk, knew what she had to do.

[B]

So one day, I remember it very distinctly. I was walking over, it was very cold. It was in February. I was meeting some friends, seeing this trash flap in the wind. That morning I had read an article, something about ice, and I was just feeling very distressed and like, I can't do anything about that and it's deeply upsetting. But I was like, you know what, I can take that trash off as easily as people put it up, I can take it down.

[A]

She took a photo and posted it on Reddit and found that others were equally as passionate about all the trash. They just hadn't done anything about it.

[B]

So I went out there, oddly enough, with a wine key with the little, like, serrated edge on there, and I started cutting the things off. And it surprised me how much shit I saw in there. Of the grosser things I saw, I saw tampons, unused, thankfully tied to it. I saw condoms, I saw women's underwear, socks, receipts, tissues. It just, it's disgusting. I feel like there are some people who are, oh, it's a public art. I'm like, no, it's literally garbage. And when it rains, it deteriorates and it falls into the east river, which is already disgusting.

[A]

So people can picture this, that are listening. We're not just talking locks, which would have annoyed you anyway, but it's a whole lot of other shit.

[B]

Yes, just shit. A cacophony of trash blowing in the wind. And I mean, I understand why people are doing it.

[A]

She started her mission back in February, going out every day cutting off locks and removing the plastic bags, hair ties and tampons. You've got a pair of. What is this? What is this?

[B]

These are bolt cutters.

[A]

They're quite big, these things. You're gripping and you're sort of on a bridge. You're out in public with these things. How do people react to it? Cause people could look at you and go, oh, good God, here's another New York lunatic.

[B]

Yeah, most people don't notice. People stopped me more when I was taking the trash off because they would say, why? And at the time I had. I'm quite short, so I had a stool to reach the top. So they were like, are you paid by the city? And I'm like, no. No one in person has ever said anything negative to me. Only online. And the gist was usually, oh, but those people put their sentiments there. You're such a curmudgeon.

[A]

Why do you hate love so much?

[B]

Yes, people have said that. Exactly.

[A]

With all this talk of trash, I wanted to see the kind of impact she'd had over the last four months. So we make the 10 minute walk to the Brooklyn Bridge.

[B]

So when the bridge first opened, it was hailed as the eighth wonder of the world. At the time, an engineering marvel. And people were afraid of going onto the bridge because they thought that it was going to collapse. So P.T. barnum, I don't know how many, but took elephants onto the bridge in this grand parade to say, like, don't worry, it's going to hold you.

[A]

There were no elephants here today, thankfully, but there were a lot of locals and tourists. She took me to the place where a part of the bridge, a metal guy wire, had broken off 10 years ago. This is where they fell.

[B]

Yes. It's directly over traffic.

[A]

Yeah, no, not great at all. I wouldn't want to be whacked by that as I drive by.

[B]

Smuth. Much less if you were cycling, especially without a helmet.

[A]

We walk on to the main part of Brooklyn Bridge that used to be absolutely covered in trash. Now it's clean. All thanks to Alan.

[B]

See how this is like these boxed fencing areas, you see those oval sort of fencing looking things? Those are doors. I don't know who goes up there, the police or the DOT or whatever. It's all locked. So they put these up to prevent you from climbing up there. I don't remember what year it was. I think it was like over a decade ago. Do you see where that American flag is? Two German tourists took it down and they replaced it with a white flag. It was not like a political statement. It was just like, we did it. Like we went up there.

[A]

This happened back in 2014. Two German artists climbed to the top of the Brooklyn Bridge, swapping out two large US Flags for two white flags. Why? They wanted to draw attention to the anniversary of the 1869 death of John Roebling, the German engineer who built the bridge. We saw the bridge, which was designed by a German trained in Berlin who came to America because it was a place to fulfill his dreams as the most beautiful expression of a great public space. The artist said at the time that beauty was what we were trying to capture. The white flag stunt left the authorities embarrassed, and they installed these grids to stop it from happening again. Those grids turned out to be the perfect place to affix a lock.

[B]

And they would tie things to all of this. So just imagine every single panel, all of it.

[A]

She did have some help. There's a guy, Max, who comes out with her sometimes.

[B]

Took about two full weeks maybe, of every day coming out. Yeah.

[A]

How many locks roughly, would you say, number wise?

[B]

I have no idea. But max has over 1,200 pounds of locks.

[A]

From December, Max takes a more aggressive approach using an angle grinder, which has led to some drama in their mission.

[B]

There were a couple complaints, and the police would come by and hassle him and tell him to go away. It happened once when we were both on the bridge and I had my bolt cutters. He was way further down, and the cops came up to me and said, you know, you got power tools? And I'm like, don't you think I would be using it if I did? But I do not. Then they went and told him to just stop, but it's been escalating. Most recently, there was an interaction where he was using bolt cutters, I think, and a cop told him to stop. And he said, you know, I'm happy to stop, but what's the citation? What law am I breaking? Because it is actually illegal to put them on the bridge, but I'm taking them off. Whatever scuffle, he kind of walks away. And so Max kind of gave up, and he took his scissors out and started cutting the trash off instead, kind of just giving up on the locks. And the cop came back and was basically like, if you do this again, there's going to be trouble. To which I was thinking, there's no way that harassing volunteers who are taking this off is the way to go.

[A]

Some complained the pair were taking away union jobs. Ellen argues they're not because no one was doing this work in the first place. Some of the locks were big, some were small. Some were easy to cut off. Some were fixed in places too dangerous to get to. I can see some of them as we walk along the bridge, just out of reach. So what's the sign we're looking at here? We're about halfway up the bridge.

[B]

We're looking at New York City administrative code, section 16, 122B. No locks fine of $100.

[A]

If every time you broke a lock that relationship broke up, would you still do it?

[B]

Yes. Because. Because if your relationship is being propped up by crap that's tied to a bridge, babe, that's not your relationship.

[A]

Eventually we reach the Manhattan side of the bridge. Looking at photos of the junk that was here back in January, I'm blown away by the job she's done. But that doesn't mean the job is over. How much impact have you made? You talked about people putting stuff up as you take it down. Are we winning?

[B]

We are winning for the moment. There's definitely new things up there, but it's nothing like it was. There's nothing. Wafts of trash. All of the locks have been taken off that we could safely get. And so if we. Yeah, if we go there now, there's only a handful of them that are

[A]

new, so I think must feel good.

[B]

It does feel. It's immensely satisfying to see it.

[A]

She's begun talking to more local politicians to figure out a way to keep her favorite bridge clean. The fact is, the Lovelock thing isn't going to stop because Americans love their trash. I think of that disgusting gum wall Rob and I visited in Seattle.

[B]

I can't stop people from doing it. They're going to keep doing it no matter what. And I know we're going to have an influx of it when tourists are here for the World Cup. So I think that there's a way to influence that behavior to happen at the end of the bridges. It would be easier to clean if it wasn't falling into the river, and it would be less scary to me. I think in South Korea or somewhere, they had these metal trees that they put up and they were like, oh, put them on here instead. Some creative choice that you're making Making people want to do it. I hate to say this, but it's like an Instagramable thing that they can do and it's like, do it here where we can maintain it and then maybe periodically collect them, melt them down, do something with it, like make it a thing.

[A]

There any other particularly trashy, awful places in New York? Well, not awful, but just places that you're like, oh God, I could move on to this next.

[B]

There's a lot of places, but I feel like this will be my forever thing because there is so much to be unlocked.

[A]

Did you do that on purpose, the unlocked thing?

[B]

You know, I did not, but it's just so ingrained in me now.

[A]

I left that bit of the conversation in there for you, Rob. And for any of you listeners who also like God awful puns, what do you think you've learned through this whole experience? Is there anything you've sort of walked away with?

[B]

I feel like there's good and bad things. The good is that I'm nobody. I'm just some lady and you can have an impact.

[A]

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[C]

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[C]

Yeah, you did. You did a very David thing With this week's episode was what way where you come into it. I mean, look at you collecting rubbish. You're in a second.

[A]

I'm gonna recycle these.

[C]

Is that empty? You drank that already now?

[A]

Halfway through.

[C]

Halfway through. And you got it a second.

[A]

I like having approximately two to five beverages going at the same time.

[C]

Got it.

[A]

If you go to my apartment, there are half drunken cups of tea, there's coffee, there's cups of water.

[C]

Oh, you're not even gonna finish the first half.

[A]

My aim is to finish it, but my brain finds it difficult to do the task.

[C]

No, you do the thing where you come into a topic and you think it's going to be pretty straightforward take on the topic.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then you just take a hard left.

[A]

Find a woman with bolt cutters.

[C]

Yeah. Who.

[A]

And a friend with an angle grinder who are busy, like, cutting locks off the Brooklyn Bridge.

[C]

Yeah. Did. Did you know what bolt cutters were before you saw them?

[A]

I. I'd never see. I'd seen them in bank heist films and stuff. I'd never. I've never laid hands on bolt cutters. I just wanted to check what I was like, what she was holding because I had looked. Yeah.

[C]

I wasn't sure if you were totally confused or it was for describing it in an auditory format.

[A]

No, a bit of both. I was trying to bring the audience in.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, just radio of the mind, you know. So what are you holding? What are these things in your hands?

[C]

Well, David, I did like that she took a very hard line on just calling anything that was attached to the fence trash.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, it's not. It's not necessarily like McDonald's wrappers.

[A]

It was, to her, everything that wasn't bridge was trash.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that. I think that's the thing. I mean, if you watched along to any of the videos, you'll see, like, the number of locks and the number of tissues and hangies and condoms and God knows what else.

[C]

Yeah. That stuff's gross if you're strapped in.

[A]

But yeah, the locks were the thing that I was kind of curious about because much like the gum wall that you and I went to.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Kind of saw the gum wall and it was disgusting. But I'm like, this is a public bit of art.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And when I saw the locks. I'm not as offended by locks as I am by some old disgusting tissue paper.

[C]

I would argue that the locks are not trash. I mean, I do think people are either grabbing old locks or buying locks specifically to bring to this.

[A]

Have you put a lock on a bridge before?

[C]

No, I have not.

[A]

Would you?

[C]

No, probably not.

[A]

Not your thing.

[C]

Not my thing.

[A]

Yeah. I hadn't really thought about the whole phenomenon of the love lock, which had its origins over in Europe.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Before this mission that she was on. I guess in her mind as well, the locks attracted other shit. So her mind was if I can get rid of the locks, which she does view as trash.

[C]

And I get, I get, I get that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The fact that the locks and leaving the locks has then led to all this other crap. Like can see that being a problem.

[A]

And what she said at the end there is. There's other countries that have done this where the will put up a specific area where you can attach your locks. So not on the bridge, but on a separate structure that is there as a bit of public art. Because of course the other danger with the bridge, which is what happened 10 years ago, is that people were attaching them on these little wires that attach out from the bridge and they can fall. Cause they're laden down with locks. And the other thing that blew my mind about it is walking across that bridge. Cause you don't look for them unless you're really looking. And some of the locks are affixed in places where you'd have to be in an incredibly dangerous position to even put that lock on. Climbing up and the city has just painted over them. So they're paint. Some of them are painted into the bridge and they've just become part of the structure. So the other thing is, I suppose it's like a slight public danger thing of mind you, if you choose to die that way by affixing a lock to the bridge, you probably deserve to die.

[C]

You know, I don't know if I'd.

[A]

That's my personal thoughts on it. It's, it's. What is it? It's. There's that award, the Darwin Award that's given out every year to basically people that are maybe deserving to. I don't think people should die. But my point is there's a certain. I'm going all in on this.

[C]

Yeah, you're taking a risk. And don't maybe climb up too high where you risk falling off bridge to put a lock.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But with that said, I'm not. I'm not saying everyone that's doing that deserves to die.

[A]

No, I'm not. No. I'm just saying the natural balance of life. Sometimes these things happen and life finds a way.

[C]

Sure, sure. The other thing I forgot to mention. I'm gonna go Back to trash. I'm gonna go back to trash.

[A]

This is all hooked on the theme of trash.

[C]

Yeah. The other big difference between at least Chicago in New York is there's not alleyways in New York. Really. Their buildings are all much closer together. So they don't. And they don't have the sides and the backs where that those trash bins normally go in a city.

[B]

No.

[A]

So yeah. Where in New York would you even put the trash bin? That's the question. And I guess that begs the question with all these new plastic bins coming in in New York, where are they going to put them?

[C]

They're just going to go on the street.

[A]

Sit on the street probably. Which is better than the plastic bags

[C]

sitting on the street. It is an improvement. But it's still New York's such a beautiful city. It would be great if they had a solution that wasn't. Here's a bunch of garbage bins and trash that needs to go on the sidewalk because it's also a very busy city.

[A]

Another thing that when I was thinking about trash is that. And we have this in New Zealand as well. But I, I live on my own. I'm disgusted and amazed at the amount of trash I have that I generate. Yeah. Through mainly I feel like food that's wrapped in different ways.

[C]

Yeah. I've seen your rubbish bins.

[A]

It's disgusting how much you make the record. Probably not seeing my rubbish bins. But accumulate. I think in America particularly is really good at packaging and packaging things up. And I even think of. I go to Trader Joe's a lot which is kind of built for like the single person and the meals. These single serve meals that come in even apple like four apples packaged.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's just so dumb. And we accumulate so much in this country.

[C]

I. That was my biggest gripe I have. I wear daily contacts but they come, they're packaged in daily little individual little versus like I've always worn the ones that you keep for like two weeks to a month.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So just taking the difference between. I mean it's a little plastic guy.

[A]

But it adds up.

[C]

It adds up.

[A]

Speaking of.

[C]

Wait, wait, are you moving on from trash?

[A]

No, still on trash. Just speaking of the amounts of trash that America produces. There's a piece here on the Internet. Which US state has the most waste in landfills? Can you guess? The state which has the most waste.

[C]

The most waste in land. I mean I'm gonna go New York.

[A]

It is Michigan.

[C]

Michigan.

[A]

There is 68 tons per capita. So based on population size Michigan comes in, followed by Indiana, Illinois, Pennsylvania and Ohio. California comes in at 6. New York, holy shit. Rhode island is on the list at 20. New York madly isn't on this list, which I don't understand.

[C]

Well, per capita, if you're a lot of people there, maybe they're just not using as much waste completely.

[A]

So maybe like an all our blitley of New York, they could be a lot worse than they are.

[C]

Texas at 18, I mean, it's probably the. If you have to look at how much trash is sitting outside on your sidewalk for the world to see, you're not going to put as much trash out. It's.

[A]

It's like so judged as you walk out in front of all your neighbors with your horrific stuff.

[C]

I did look it up too. And the reason New York does it, it was built before modern sanitation infrastructure. So they. They just didn't have.

[A]

Yeah, they didn't have the structure in

[C]

place to deal with it how they had done it. And I think there was probably just the scale of it was too much to make a big adjustment that makes.

[A]

That makes sense.

[C]

Very old city. Whereas California, Louisiana.

[A]

Fuck. Yeah, we're newer. We're newer and more. Yeah. So New York's rich history is the reason for its horrible trash situation. Also, she mentioned earlier about the elephants being marched over the bridge. To prove how strong it was, P.T. barnum marched 21 elephants across Brooklyn Bridge along with 17 camels.

[C]

Do you recall who Barnum is? He learned about him last week.

[A]

Oh, God.

[C]

Barnum and Bailey.

[A]

Who were they?

[C]

Circus.

[A]

Circus people. Early circus. Hence why he had all those fucking elephants. I just assumed he was a zoo owner or something. And while we're on animal facts, this reminded me of a short piece of film which I saw a long time ago called Electrocuting an elephant from 1903. Incredibly dark footage to watch. They basically.

[C]

They electrocute an elephant.

[A]

They electrocuted an elephant. What it says on the tin. It happened at a Coney island Amusement park on January 4, 1903. It was produced by the Edison Film Company. It's believed to be the first time a death was ever captured in a motion picture film. It's public domain because it was released in 1903. So the elephant, the reason they picked that elephant, which is, again, is horrible. She had a reputation, allegedly for being a bad elephant, having killed a drunken spectator the previous year who burned the tip of her trunk with a lit cigar. Again, electrocute that guy. Not the elephant.

[C]

The elephant killed him already. So.

[A]

Very good point. So in popular culture, Thompson And Dundee's execution of Topsy has switched attribution. I see. So I think the reason I thought it was is not true. With narratives claiming the film depicts an anti alternating current demonstration organized by Thomas Edison during the War of the Currents waged against his competitor George Westinghouse. This is a misconception. Okay. So it wasn't for that they just wanted to kill the elephant because this elephant had done. Had attacked a person.

[C]

And they decided just to film it.

[A]

And they just filmed the whole thing. We're all learning in real time here. I'd always thought it was to prove that ACD was better than dc, but there we go. Okay. What other rubbish facts do I have to.

[C]

Are you just bad facts or about trash?

[A]

I've got a trash fact now. We've moved on from elephants. So New Zealand has its own version of Lovelocks. And that is the Kadrona bra fence. Can you guess what the Kadrona bra fence does?

[C]

I think you put your bra up on the fence.

[A]

You put your bra on the fence?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a tourist attraction in Central Otago. So New Zealand doesn't do locks. We do bras. Which is a nice twist on a tale as old as time, isn't it? Apparently. Its origin. It was Christmas of 1998. What a year. And New Year 99, when four bras were attached to the wire fence alongside the road. The original reason for the bras being attached is unknown and it's just gone on from there. A lot of bras.

[C]

It reminds me a bit of. In cities you'll sometimes see shoes hung from power lines.

[A]

Which I was always told was a tinny house. Growing up. It's a sign of like where you go and get weed from a dealer.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No idea if there is any legitimacy in that or not. But that was the urban myth that I was told. You see them here in LA as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You do. So it dates back pretty far. Without a real definitive single origin. But apparently military tradition.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Soldiers through boots over lines after basic training or finishing a tour of duty.

[A]

God. Human traditions are weird.

[C]

Bullying. Just stealing someone's shoes and throwing them.

[A]

Isn't it that someone stole my shoes at school. My Roman sandals actually. At Beth College. And I just remember being so gutted.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It being barefoot all day.

[C]

Gang territory marking. So this is.

[A]

Maybe that's where it comes into tiny house situations.

[C]

A widespread popular belief in the 80s and 90s that it marked drug dealing corners or gang turf.

[A]

That tracks with my life in New Zealand growing up.

[C]

However, law enforcement and journalists investigated this and found it largely a myth.

[A]

Myth. Okay.

[C]

Or at best inconsistently true. In isolated cases. So apparently urban legend.

[A]

Okay. Much like the elephant electrocution being a war of the currents.

[C]

Other meanings. Someone had just lost their virginity.

[A]

So they tie their shoes together and like throw it up in the air. In victory.

[C]

Neighborhood memorial for someone who had died especially of gun violence. Celebrating a move out of a neighborhood.

[A]

So many vastly different reasons.

[C]

Or just youthful mischief with no deeper meaning. Which is probably, I feel like more the case.

[A]

Is it less prominent now, shoes over a power line than it was when we were kids? I feel like it's less so now.

[C]

Yeah. I. I have seen them recent. It just depends on what parts of the city.

[A]

Depends where you are in.

[C]

But I think we have them down the street from us too. I've seen them recently.

[A]

You threw them up when you're on. You're on Natalie's wedding night.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Virginity lost.

[A]

Finally. The only other thing I wanted to touch on briefly on trash. And I'm kind of curious to hear from anyone that knows more about this is just the whole idea of recycling. Because I know recycling. There's this idea that everything you put in the recycling bin goes to a beautiful recycling area and it is made into a new tin can or a new whatever. Yeah.

[C]

There are lots of movements against recycling.

[A]

Yeah. Essentially.

[C]

Or just that it's not as effective as it's.

[A]

No, it's kind of. Essentially. It's kind of a myth. In a lot of ways. It's rubbish. To make you think that it is okay that you have this Pepsi can because it's all going to be recycled, but it's all kind of bullshit because it often ends up in the same place anyway.

[C]

I feel like that's a deeper dive into recycling that you can probably do.

[A]

I think we can go down that road if you're an expert in recyc. The United States. Flightless breadchatmail.com. because I also feel like it's not something I just want to talk off the top of my head about knowing nothing.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. I think like going to recycling facility. Maybe rewatch John Wilson's episode on recycling.

[A]

So good. That show changed the way I saw so many things, including. I think scaffolding is something that will always be different in my mind.

[C]

Which though after that show, John. Well, it was. That show was so New York too. Like every story was.

[A]

It couldn't have been made anywhere else.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm desperate to see he had a feature at Sundance. A history of Concrete. And apparently it's just fucking amazing. I can't wait to watch that. Okay. Feedback, feedback. We always want to hear from you. Flightless breadchat, gmail.com. we got a lot of feedback, which was both funny and deeply annoying about our live show episode. And I just thought it was really interesting. People on Spotify, very mean. And Saki people on Reddit, kind of mean spirited. Patreon people. Just lovely. And didn't even bring it up.

[C]

Yeah, it was funny to see the spectrum.

[A]

But essentially what happened is at our live shows, we normally record the audience. So you can hear them clapping or cheering or booing or laughing.

[C]

Yeah. Well, every live show we do, we go into a venue that has. Has different capabilities and specifications that they can record the show.

[A]

And this also comes down to everything about the show. Whether they have a couch we can sit on and whether they have, like set dressing. Every venue is so different.

[C]

Or is there a screen that we can project.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Our presentation. Or like in Austin coming up. We didn't have that. And we had to print out giant things for around town. But. But Salt Lake City, they were not able to record for us.

[A]

No.

[C]

So everything was very scraped together.

[A]

Slightly more cobbled together than we'd usually have.

[C]

Yes. And then we had an issue with the rig that we did have. Everything was a bit chaotic.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Couple things happened to that show, too. We didn't get Josalie's actual performance.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

The recording that we released.

[A]

I didn't even know.

[C]

Different get out of town. The live performance also, they didn't record

[A]

that on the night.

[C]

We didn't get the house mix back to the rig. So it was gone.

[A]

Another example of what you're always doing behind the scenes and working magic on this.

[C]

So she. She very grateful to her that she was like, I'd be happy to record

[A]

what a beautiful human.

[C]

So she. Then she went home with our friend Chaz.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

His studio. And recorded.

[A]

Oh, what an absolute legend. The live music sets the scene. It's like one of the special things in the room and on the episode we release. Okay. So that didn't get recorded.

[C]

Recorded. And we didn't have room mics apparently either.

[A]

No. And I. And it's an interesting. I'd never thought about the importance of an audience in a live recording because essentially the comments were, oh, my God. Like that audience. Either the audience was. And they weren't giving you any feedback or no one was there or no one was there. Or the show was clearly terrible because no one was reacting. And when you listen to the audio with no audience. It is a really. Can be a really awkward, weird listen.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I just wanted to point out the crowd was really lovely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That night it felt great.

[C]

It was a great crowd in Salt Lake City.

[A]

So the crowd is great. Kudos to them. But the reason you do, it's just very funny hearing the feedback. And just as a technical note, we. There were people there. They were making a noise. We just didn't record it.

[C]

Yes. Yeah, I mean, we're. It's mics on stage that are meant to isolate your voice because you're talking into it. And it's. Yes. Projecting it to the audience. So if there was too much audience in that, it would be an issue.

[A]

Totally. You can go too far the other way.

[C]

Yeah. But normally we have two mics that point out on the audience that then get put into the mix. That did not happen in Salt Lake City.

[A]

Just. I look, I enjoyed the feedback. It annoyed me as well. And I just wanted to point out what had happened. Thomas Roden. Hi, Robin David, longtime listener, first time writer. I just finished your episode on the Ice Kidnapping and Detention center. And as a Japanese green card holder with four kids living in Nashville, it hit me in a way I didn't expect. It also made me think about a part of American history that many internationalists may not know too well, and that's that During World War II, the U.S. government forcibly removed and incarcerated more than 120,000 people of Japanese ancestry, most of them American citizens. The majority were from California and other Western states, where entire communities were uprooted almost overnight. Many of the assembly centers and camps were located in California. The survivors of that era aging and their stories are disappearing. Given the parallels being raised today around detention, due process and how governments respond under pressure, I wondered if you might consider covering the Japanese American incarceration in a future episode. I think it's an amazing topic, Thomas,

[C]

that I have thought of those parallels. That seems like a good history teacher episode.

[A]

And I should also note at this point we have about 200 applicants that I haven't replied to at all. But they're sitting in a folder in Gmail called History Teachers. And we are going to narrow it down.

[C]

We're going to do it. We're going to do it.

[A]

And it's for a topic like this where we can get someone to dive into this. Also, if you know anyone related to this particular topic, you have info. Flightless bird chat gmail.com.

[C]

yeah.

[A]

Thank you, Thomas, for writing in. You're a legend. Zachary wrote in, noting that there has been a come tree ban in Michigan, which is huge news. Finally. It's taken a long time. Clearly. They finally listened to the country episode from a couple of years ago. And Tracy wrote in was listening to the Salt Lake City live show.

[C]

I noticed you didn't have a great audience.

[A]

There's no audience. You guys suck shit. No one is laughing at your dumb jokes. She'd actually lead now with what the hell are you on about? You got everything wrong. So it's mainly. It's targeted at me in one main thing. The wizard of New Zealand, formerly the wizard of Christchurch, was active in New Zealand in the 70s through to Covid times. I believe in the episode I said our wizard was in Wellington. He was in a completely different city. Don't believe anything I say.

[C]

Yeah, I try not to.

[A]

He was a tourist attraction funded by the Christchurch City Council for a long time. That funding was withdrawn. So while he's still around, he's in his 90s now and is pretty much just retired. Most of his famous antics are avoiding completing the census by being 12 miles from land and performing a rain dance that broke the drought. Allegedly Canterbury. A bunch of other wacky things. Someone else wrote in that generally some of his ideas were misogynistic. And I think I maybe alleged that he'd sort of done some kind of crime, which wasn't accurate. He was just misogynistic.

[C]

Which should be a.

[A]

Fuck you're good. It should be. We're marketing ourselves as the Anti Joe Rogan podcast these days. We love your feedback. Flightless breadchat gmail.com if you have any feedback, good or bad. Love to hear from you. We're also over on [e-mail] Play with bird. We do bonus episodes on there and there's a really nice community growing on there and we have really fun pet threads of people posting their pets. And there are a lot of pets out there in the world. We'll see you next week.

[C]

See you next week.