Pro Puzzler

Summary

Flightless Bird Podcast: "Pro Puzzler" (April 14, 2026)

---

Episode Overview

In this episode of Flightless Bird, host David Farrier—New Zealand journalist and self-proclaimed "Kiwi marooned in America"—dives into the world of competitive jigsaw puzzling. Joined by cohost Rob, the pair discuss the rise of speed puzzling as a legitimate sport, chat with pro puzzler and YouTube creator Karen (aka “Karen Puzzles”), and explore why puzzles grip America’s imagination. The show also touches on recent life events and playful personal anecdotes, maintaining the show's signature blend of curiosity, humor, and gentle self-deprecation.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Homecomings, Tours, and the Magic Castle

• [02:10–04:18] David and Rob recount recent live shows and Rosabelle’s visit to the US, bringing the team together in person for the first time.

  • David: “Having her walk out onto stage, the audience was... it was a real energy in the room and a joy.” (04:09)
  • Rob: “It was a jolt to the live shows that we don’t normally—It was really cool to see.” (04:11)

• [08:24–10:01] The group visit LA’s Magic Castle, leading to events shortly before a fire at the venue.

David’s Invisalign and Being Sued

• [12:03–13:13] David explains his new Invisalign—which causes a slight lisp—and his decision not to have jaw surgery.
  • David: “I just got Invisalign... either I’m getting too much saliva or too little. I’ve got a bit of a lisp at times...” (12:14)
• [13:46–16:54] David discusses being the target of a lawsuit related to his investigative newsletter Webworm.
  • David: “When people use lawsuits to try and shut down free speech... Pretty annoying. And the trouble is you have to defend it.” (16:17)

Jigsaw Puzzling: A Personal and Cultural Phenomenon

• [18:12–22:40] The hosts reflect on personal relationships to puzzling.

  • Rob learned strategy from his father, now passing it to his own son, 4-year-old Vinnie.
  • Rob: “My dad was talking to Vinnie... of like, sort the pieces over in this, and like work on this section... And then immediately Vinnie just started doing everything that my dad had said.” (20:24)

• [22:40–25:54] Intro to speed puzzling as a formal sport. The World Jigsaw Puzzle Federation founded in 2019, annual competitions in Spain, and the USA Puzzling Association’s national championships.

Interview with Pro Puzzler Karen ("Karen Puzzles")

Karen’s Puzzling Roots and Skills

• [27:19–27:46] Karen (“Karen Puzzles”) introduces herself: Los Angeles-based puzzle YouTuber, family roots in puzzling.

• [28:09–28:35] By age 8–10, she was doing 1,000-piece puzzles solo in a day.

  • Karen: “I decided to try to do a thousand piece puzzle on my own in one day... I did it. It took me eight hours... and then after that, I just never really stopped.”

What Makes a Strong Puzzler?

• [28:40–29:03] Skill involves “muscle memory for your brain,” visualizing what you need, recognizing it quickly, employing patience and strategic division of the puzzle.

Speed Puzzling Techniques

• [29:19–30:43] Speed competitions start with the pieces in the box. Flipping all pieces over quickly (ideally in under 4 minutes), rapidly sorting edges/colors, then assembling.
  • Karen: “Your flip shouldn’t take more than about four minutes. That’s kind of the standard, right?” (29:59)

Competition Atmosphere and Formats

• [31:00–31:39] Individuals compete in near-silence; team events are noisy as partners communicate.
• [31:52–32:26] Puzzles are brand new, often sponsored by Ravensburger, with competitors seeing the image for the first time as the clock starts.

Competitive Landscape

• [37:20–38:52] Speed puzzling is growing fast, with Karen previously placing second; now, with hundreds in nationals, making finals is a major achievement.

  • Karen: “I am under no delusion that I will be anywhere close to top three, top 10, anything like that.” (38:29)

• [38:59–40:18] Most US speed puzzlers are women (80–90%), but top competitors can be from anywhere (recent winners: Spain, Norway, Poland).

Practice and Preparation

• [41:02–41:39] Training involves doing many types of puzzles and practicing with teams; burnout is real.

Drama in Puzzling?

• [42:07–42:48] Little room for cheating—“everyone is watching”—though some speculate about breaking in early to preview images.

Puzzle Types and Preferences

• [43:28–44:36] Thematically, puzzles with fur (e.g., kittens) are widely disliked for their difficulty, while gridded or color-section puzzles are easier for speed.

Handling the Pressure

• [44:34–45:14] The environment gets tense when the first person finishes; most prefer not to watch the clock.

International Puzzling Life

• [45:27–46:01] Karen has competed in Spain (World Championships) and at large US events; the sport is global.

Brands and Quality

• [47:18–48:26] Karen recommends smaller brands for quality (Soonness, Ebu) and appreciates Ravensburger for competition.
  • Karen: “They’re beautiful quality, beautiful artwork... [Ebu] work with pretty much all female artists... I also really like a company called Ebu.” (47:53)

Live Puzzle Demonstration

• [49:02–51:18] Karen speed-solves a 500-piece Disney Pixar gradient puzzle in about 33 minutes for the show.

  • David (narrating): “In 25 minutes she’s almost got this 500-piece puzzle done...” (51:02)
  • Karen (completion): “33, not bad.” (51:15)

• [52:07] Karen has completed 43 puzzles in the first 73 days of the current year (and that’s “not even that many” by competitive standards).

Recent Nationals Recap (Post-interview)

• [55:15–55:35] Karen competed in the largest-ever US Nationals with 800 individual competitors, finishing all finals and placing 13th with her team.

---

Memorable Quotes

• “Speed puzzling is a strange blend of speed, strategy, and muscle memory. Your brain is scanning for colors, patterns, and shapes while your hands are constantly moving, sliding pieces in. Over the years, the process becomes instinctive.”
  – Karen, 26:24 (quoting her Guardian interview)

• "Having her walk out onto stage, the audience was... it was a real energy in the room and a joy."
  – David, 04:09 (about Rosabelle's US visit)

• "Fur is the enemy."
  – Karen, 42:48 (about puzzle images featuring kittens)

• "When people use lawsuits to try and shut down free speech... Pretty annoying."
  – David, 16:17 (on the lawsuit)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:10–04:18]: Live shows, Rosabelle’s visit, team dynamics
• [08:24–10:01]: Magic Castle anecdote
• [12:03–13:14]: Invisalign journey
• [13:46–16:54]: Lawsuit, American litigiousness, free speech
• [18:12–22:40]: Childhood puzzling, family traditions
• [22:40–25:54]: Speed puzzling as a sport, international scene
• [27:19–49:02]: Interview with Karen Puzzles (deep dive into competitive techniques, community, strategies)
  • [29:19–30:43]: Step-by-step on starting a speed puzzle
  • [37:20–38:52]: Changes in the competitive scene
  • [43:28–44:36]: Types of competition images
  • [47:18–48:26]: Puzzle brand recommendations
• [49:02–51:18]: Karen’s live demonstration
• [55:15–55:35]: Nationals 2026 recap
• [58:02–60:14]: Puzzle storage, home logistics

---

Notable Moments and Tangents

• David’s nose-holding pool jump: [61:44–63:10] - Playful teasing about swimming technique.
• Puzzle tabletop Instagram ad: [59:29–60:14] - Rob discusses being targeted with the "perfect" puzzling accessory, reflecting on domestic consequences of puzzling.
• Feedback from listener Anastasia: [65:34–66:50] - The show’s impact on mental health and sleep.
  • Anastasia (email): "I work later with tears streaming down my face. Goosebumps on my skin... Happy subconscious tears."

---

Final Thoughts & Resources

• Pro puzzling is rising in visibility. The “sport” draws hundreds in the U.S., and global competitors, especially women, are dominating.
• Anyone can get involved: Most competitions require participants to be age 16+. Preparation is accessible—just practice, strategize, and try different types of puzzles.
• Puzzle community is supportive and creative, with new tools, accessories, and social media connections growing.
• For those considering competitive puzzling: The bar is higher than ever, but as Karen shows, passion, technique, and plenty of practice can make even intimidating jigsaw puzzles feel satisfying and fun.

---

Contact & Participation

• Suggestions or feedback?
  [e-mail]
• Patreon & extras:
  Bonus content, Rosabelle episodes, live show recordings, and more available for supporters.
• Vote for Flightless Bird at the Webby Awards!
  • Go to webbyawards.com, search for Flightless Bird, and vote.

---

For Newcomers

This episode covers the quirky and competitive heart of speed puzzling: think Olympic-level concentration and dexterity, with all the warmth and community the Flightless Bird team brings to every American subculture explored.

---

End of summary.

Transcript

[A]

Just quickly, before this week's episode kicks off, Flightless Bird has been nominated for a Webby Award. The Webbies are kind of a big deal for us and we'd love you to vote. If you like our show and you have a moment, this is a really key way you can help us. Here's what you do. Go to webbyawards.com that's W E B B yawards.com, click the go vote button, hit search and type in Flightless Bird. Click on Flightless Bird when it turns up and go and vote. Also, if you're on our Instagram at Flightless Bird pod, there's a link in our bio as well. Thanks for listening to this very self involved monologue onto the show. Now, Rosabelle, I'm not calling you today because you right now are here in the United States because thanks to our Patreon members, we got to fly you to America for our live shows. So today's topic is pro puzzling. It is about the scene of pro puzzling people that do puzzles very, very fast. Do you have you ever puzzled pro or normal? And what do you think of puzzles?

[B]

And by pro puzzling, you're talking specifically about jigsaw puzzles.

[A]

Jigsaw puzzles specifically.

[B]

I have never pro puzzled, but I know people who have. And I've seen the setup because you get sent the puzzle and then you have to put a camera above it and you are timed as you're doing it. But that's a remote version. So maybe is this in person like everyone?

[A]

Yeah, we're talking to a competitor who attends like mass events where everyone's in the room, pressured, doing it all at once.

[B]

I would love to have a go. I know I would be really bad, but my brain says I'd be really good.

[A]

I've never seen you do a puzzle

[B]

because I'm so fast.

[A]

When was the last time you did a puzzle?

[B]

Look, let's not get into it. I haven't really done a puzzle in a very long time. But the instincts are still there. The killer instincts.

[A]

Flightless. Flightless. Flightless bird touchdown in America. I'm a flightless bird Touchdown in America. Hey, Rob. How are you?

[C]

I'm good. How are you?

[A]

I'm good. We're back from our. Back from tour.

[C]

I'm tired from.

[A]

Yeah, I. I feel tired.

[C]

We were gone. We were gone for a while.

[A]

Yeah, we were. And it's like the tours are busy. Like we're active.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

We're in each city doing a lot of things, building the show.

[C]

I also Feel very pathetic saying that we have musicians in here a lot. I have a lot of friends that are musicians that are on tour for months. Yeah, we were gone for, like, nine days.

[A]

We were gone for nine days.

[C]

Three shows. Lots of days off.

[A]

I. Blockbuster. Three shows.

[C]

And.

[A]

Yeah, was. People are on tour for 100 shows a year.

[D]

Yeah, six.

[C]

Six shows a week.

[A]

Yeah, completely. But it was. We had fun.

[C]

We had a lot of fun.

[A]

And the mind blowing thing is that we bought Roosevelt over for two of the live shows.

[C]

Yes. Thanks to Patreon.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

We had reached our goal.

[A]

Yeah. We reached it quickly as well, which was kind of mind blowing. And Rosabelle had this week off, and so we flew her over to take part in the live shows. We recorded a bunch of stuff with her for over on Patreon for Patreon members, kind of as a thank you for getting her here. Yeah. And. Yeah, before about two hours ago, from sitting here, she was heading off to the airport to fly back to New Zealand. We had a blast.

[C]

It was weird how well the timing worked out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We had hit that mark. We were like, well, maybe let's do some shows during spring break. Yeah, maybe. Let's see if Rosabelle wants to go to Texas.

[A]

Yeah. And Rosabelle is a very busy human in New Zealand with all of her work and life. And so the fact she was like, yeah, I'm free. I'll come over. I was like, this is amazing.

[C]

I got 12 days.

[A]

Yeah. But it was neat to have Rosabelle here in person. And the one thing I'll say, we recorded the shows and we'll release them on the feed at some point. But having her walk out onto stage, the audience was. It was a real energy in the room and a joy.

[C]

Yeah. It was a jolt to the live shows that we don't normally.

[A]

It was really cool to see. So. Yeah, that was a blast.

[C]

How did you like having her around us? Was it. Was it a weird melding?

[A]

No, it was. It was like lives coming together because. Yeah. I mean, it's Rosabelle. I call her every two weeks for the show, and we talk and. But we have this whole other life, and so having her. Yeah, like having you meet her and her meet you. I mean, I was worried because I like to keep certain aspects of my life separate.

[C]

Yeah. But.

[A]

And when people combine, you got. You know, I leave the room, I'm like, what are they talking about? What are they gossiping about?

[C]

Well, you weren't. You weren't concerned that we wouldn't get along?

[A]

Not at all.

[C]

You Were concerned that we would get along.

[A]

Yeah, that was the problem. Yeah. No, exactly.

[C]

Because I feel like we did meld pretty quickly and got pretty quickly.

[A]

No, I noticed. I noticed. And. Which is wonderful, but also dangerous for me. Like, what are they talking about? What are you sharing with her? What is she sharing with you?

[C]

We learned things. We did a. There was one night you did a tickled screening, and I was like, oh, well, we'll take her to dinner while you're busy.

[A]

Yes. That was worrying.

[C]

Yeah. We. I mean, we got into things because that.

[A]

Strengths involved as well, you know, not for me. Not for you? Yeah. People start blabbing. No, it was. It was perfect. It was. Honestly, it was a lot of fun, and she had fun.

[C]

It was interesting. You are. You're a different person when she's around.

[A]

This is. Okay. This is interesting to me. What did you notice? Good and bad. I don't mind. I'm curious about this. I don't like subtle sort of changes or subtle.

[C]

I mean, you were very attentive to her, but you're normally more mysterious, I think, intentionally.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But I feel like when she was there, the dynamic was just different where, like, oh, here's the real David that he's hiding.

[A]

Oh, that's so. Yeah.

[C]

And now here it is.

[A]

No, that kind of tracks, because I do have a thing, and it's partly to do with superstition and the way I conduct myself. I don't want to give too much away because I feel like things might fall over or not work. Like, I like to keep things to myself. It takes me a long time also to be comfortable to talk about, I don't know, more real or intense things.

[C]

I mean, I feel like we have

[A]

a. I mean, we do. No, we do. No, we do. But it's like, Rosabelle goes back. We go about 20 years.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so you probably just see me defaulting into. And she knows all about me, so that just comes out much quicker.

[C]

It was like a cloak was removed of, like, here's all the stuff he's been hiding. Here is. Here is the real version of him.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That isn't the, like, clearly calculated and curated identity that he has crafted for himself in Los Angeles.

[A]

I think that's fair. And I'm glad you got to see it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm glad people at the live shows got to see a little bit of that. And, yeah, I was sad when Roswell left, so. It's been so cool to have a buddy to hang with, and we have fun on the road, and it's cool seeing like Texas with all of us and our different perspectives.

[C]

Yeah. No, it was a lot of fun having her be part of it and like. Yeah. See this team.

[A]

Yeah. And we all got on.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think the other thing I think was neat for her is that she. When she walked out onto stage and got that reception, she kind of, you know, sort of realized that, oh, like people like me for me and just these conversations I have, like nothing to do with my work or what I do. They just like me and my point of view. And that was just a neat thing, I think, for her to have as well. Yeah. Thank you, Rosabelle. If you're listening, Roosevelt does listen to the show.

[C]

So sometimes it's not all the time.

[A]

Sometimes not all the time. Every. Maybe every second or third episode.

[C]

We did get to go to the Magic Castle with her when we returned, which was a lot of fun. And we talk about it on a Patreon, if you're not over there.

[A]

But she had always wanted to go. She was deeply keen to see some close up magic. Deeply keen to get into some sort of mind tomfoolery.

[C]

Well, the other crazy thing is mentalism. Within 15 hours of our visit, the Magic Castle was on fire for the Ricko.

[A]

They had nothing to do with us.

[C]

Yeah. Nothing to do with. They're doing construction on the roof. They were blowtorching some of the roof.

[A]

I mean, we ain't on the roof. Right. Night. We went on the night of. The night before it caught fire.

[C]

So I'm not sure it's. Did it shut down?

[A]

I don't know. I mean, may. Well, I mean me may have been the last people to go to the Magic Castle.

[C]

Like there was like. There was a decent amount of fire trucks that had to be called there to put it out. They put it out quick.

[A]

We had shout out to David, who's a flightless bird listener who took us on a tour. He got us in the door and he gave us the best tour of this place. It was incredible. Had a blast.

[C]

He was very knowledgeable.

[A]

I would say just having someone to walk you through and tell you what each room is and what that photo is.

[C]

And like, because his dad was a member. So it's been like passed down.

[A]

Yeah. Multi generations. Which is a trip.

[C]

Hearing the history of what that place is like, that's the coolest part of it. I don't. Magic's not exactly my thing.

[A]

I think none of us are hugely into it. I think Rosaba was super keen to see a mentalist which we saw, but it's just the spectacle of it and even the. The. The whole artifice of having to put on a suit. You have to look a certain way and everyone is in it.

[C]

We did go to a diner after we dropped you guys off, and we were still in our attire for the.

[A]

It's like you're being out on a big date night or something.

[C]

Like, we went to the prom. That's really cute. Wearing a suit, eating at a bar at Fred 62.

[A]

It's really good. Before we get into propuzzling, some slight admin. We have been nominated for a Webby Award. Big honor, which is awesome. The Webbies are a huge thing, and if we win it, it's just a great way to spread the show around. So some of it's judged, some of it is public vote.

[C]

Yeah. There's like a People's choice version of it, which you can see the results. We're currently in second place.

[A]

We're in second place. We would love to be at number one.

[C]

Yeah, we would love to be in first place. But it does require everyone listening to go vote.

[A]

Yeah. And it's a few. Like, it's a few steps involved, but it's pretty basic in the show. Notes to this episode on. And the links on our Instagram will have a direct link. Yes, but otherwise, if it's. If you just want to do it right now, you go to webbyawards.com that's W E B B Y Awards. There's a big button that says Go vote. Click the button, hit search, type in flight. The spirit. It pops up. Click on it.

[C]

Yeah. Or click the link. In this episode's description. I think you have to sign up with your email address, but, yeah, slightly annoying, but it's got, like, the Google integrations. If you've got a Gmail account, you can just log in through that.

[A]

But it's a huge help. Like, if you're not. Like, if you're not on our Patreon, they're supporting there. A really good way to help us is to spread the word. And that is by. Sounds like a catch relay, like, and subscribe. Or go and vote on something like the Webbies, because it just gets us out into the world.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

So thank you for listening to this psa. And one more thing before we get into puzzles, can I talk about the suing situation?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought you were going to talk about how you're talking right now, though, too.

[A]

So unless Billy, who is editing this audio, has run some sort of Filter. And I just sound the same. I just got Invisalign.

[C]

Day 2.

[A]

Day 2.

[C]

Still learning to talk.

[A]

Still learning to talk again. I had these two bits of plastic in my mouth, and I'm finding either I'm getting two much saliva or too little. I've got a bit of a lisp at times. Which you're loving. And just so you know, I didn't get my jaw broken. If you've listened to some previous episodes, I had the advice. They said, david, your face is a bit wonky. If you want good teeth and you want this bite to work, you need

[C]

to break your jaw to let us break your face.

[A]

I said, no. I said, I don't. I said, I'll get the Invisalign. I'll do that. I'm not breaking the jaw. Heard from a lot of listeners who have had their jaw broken.

[C]

Yeah, we talked some in Texas.

[A]

Yeah, we did. Yeah. Like, sounded like not fun.

[C]

Some. They were mixed. They were mixed.

[A]

I think we had multiple people that had their jaw broken come to us.

[C]

A listener did say that their boss had their.

[A]

They were wired shut for like a year or something.

[C]

Yeah. It's a long process. I don't know that that would be great for the show. No, I don't think. I think it was like six weeks.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Of wired shut, but like a year of dealing with looking crazy because your jaw is broken.

[A]

Yeah. And figuring out how to move your

[C]

mouth again, which, for a video podcast, could. Could be a fun thing to let people along the journey.

[A]

I. Yeah. I'm not thrilled about it, but it's happening and I will keep you all updated about that thrilling journey. But if I sound a bit different, then that is why.

[C]

And you're being sued.

[A]

I'm being sued. First time since I've been here, since I got stuck here five years ago. Cut. A long story short, deeply American thing. When I'm not doing this podcast, I write a newsletter called Webworm. And it's sort of like more of my journalism side where I'm often sort of poking into people doing sort of odd things. Internet wormholes.

[C]

Poking people.

[A]

You said poking people. Yeah. Not physically, but just kind of going, there's something odd here. Pulling on the string, finding out what happens. About six years ago, when I started Weirworm, I wrote a series about this New Zealand woman called Anna Wilding, who just had some pretty out there stories. A lot of what she said about herself wasn't true. She ended up coming to America, where for a while she was in the press gallery in The Obama white, which was fascinating. She's currently running for Congress in la. So I wrote a story about her recently, and this is a woman who stretches the truth to a really quite. In quite a devious way. Also very prone to threatening to sue over the years, but she's never sued me. So a couple of weeks ago, I wrote a piece about her husband, who is kind of adjacent to her story, and he has taken exception to that and filed a lawsuit.

[C]

The lawsuit that you didn't report on it correctly or what. What's.

[A]

Don't know what he is. So I've learned about this lawsuit in a deeply American way. I got a letter from a law firm, and they basically obviously look at cases that have been filed in the court. They look at the defendants, they find out their mailing address, and they send them a letter being like. So my letter was like, hi, David, we noticed that you have been named as a defendant in a case that has been filed at this court. If this is you, reach out to us. We would love to defend you. So I still haven't been served yet. That's the next step. Yeah, but the thing that's sucky about this, like, when I'm working on a story about someone and this is a story about a somewhat unhinged New Zealander who's running for US Congress, which is a really valid, fascinating story when people use lawsuits to try and shut down free speech.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Pretty annoying. And the trouble is you have to defend it. And so I'm in that process at the moment of figuring out what that looks like.

[C]

Yeah, well, because, I mean, you weren't. You didn't write an opinion piece, did you? Like.

[A]

No. No, no. All facts.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. No, all facts. So it's the first time it's happened in a while here. I got sued when I made tickled. That was 10 years ago now. But if you want to read this weird story, it's all at Webworm Co. It's a weird wormhole and there'll be more weird suing stuff on there. I'm gonna cover it as it kind of. As I go through the experience.

[C]

Sounds fun.

[A]

Have you been sued before?

[C]

No, I. Congratulations. I haven't and I hope to not be.

[A]

It's deeply annoying, and it's very annoying when people use the law just to shut you up.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Pretty frustrating. But, yeah, I just. I wanted to mention it because some

[C]

ominous posts on Instagram looking for a lawyer. People are probably like, what's going on with David again?

[A]

What's happening? So if you Wanna. If you wanna follow that particular story, it's over at www.webworm.co. that's my. More sort of a lot of journalism over there. A lot of weird rabbit holes.

[C]

We're living in a weird time for free speech.

[A]

The weirdest time. Yeah, I mean, we say this a lot. I mean, as we're about to do this episode about pro puzzling the Trump Iran, the craziness there is just in a whole other place. But yeah, I. It's. It's. Every day is going a thousand miles an hour. Yeah. It feels like the unhingedness is harder and harder to follow. You know, we're away for those 10 days on tour. The amount of crazy that happened in the country just while we were away on that was. Couldn't keep up.

[C]

All right. Puzzling.

[A]

Puzzling. Rob, do you. Are you a puzzling guy? Do you do puzzles?

[C]

I like puzzles. I like puzzles a lot. I did a lot of puzzling as

[A]

a child as a form of like relaxation or excitement.

[C]

Not excitement. It wasn't like.

[A]

It's like a puzzle. It's. What is it? Because I.

[C]

It is relaxing. It is relaxing to like. But me and my grandma would do them a lot together when I was little. Like, that was.

[A]

That's how you.

[C]

That was hard thing. Since I am more design, I've always been into art and drawing and more visual. I see patterns and things and I've been good at puzzles since I was younger. Relatives, I find them.

[A]

I find them frustrating, difficult. I'm a LEGO guy. I think the joy you get out and like the feeling of completion you get from a puzzle, I get from Lego. Yeah, that's my thing.

[C]

But I will say after our interview today, I do not feel good at puzzling. But yeah, during, like Covid, we were puzzling often. It was just like something to do.

[A]

Are your kids into puzzles?

[C]

Vinnie is so into puzzling right now.

[A]

That somehow doesn't surprise me at all.

[C]

We were in Austin for these shows and my dad came out to kind of to see the boys and my dad puzzles on his iPad. And Vinnie was. Wanted to puzzle too. I was sitting at the table and my dad was talking to Vinnie, who. Vinnie's just turned four.

[A]

He's a little guy.

[C]

He's like telling Vinnie a bunch of strategy about puzzling of like, sort. Sort the pieces over in this and like work on this section and all this strategy. Like very fairly complicated for how. I would have talked to Vinnie and I. Yeah, yeah. I said to my dad, I was like, I don't there's no way you're over complicating what he's gonna understand.

[A]

Yeah, this isn't going in.

[C]

And then immediately Vinnie just started doing everything that my dad had said.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. Of like.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And he's quick.

[A]

He's a really sharp kid. He is quick.

[C]

On the airplane back two, he was, he was on his iPad to stay entertained. And Natalie had set it up for him. And I, like, turned to her, I was like, I think this puzzle is too complicated for her. Like, yeah, can we change the settings to be less pieces? And then he just immediately started doing it and it was not too complicated.

[A]

That must be. It's like apparent. That must be quite fun to see it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, that's like, oh, holy shit. Like that brain is firing.

[C]

Yeah. And he was figuring it out. Yeah. And we do puzzles at home too.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We have like some of the bigger ones. So they're. But I feel like he's. He's getting a little bit more advanced.

[A]

Well, maybe like this speed puzzling thing could be a thing for him. Yeah. What drew me into this world was the idea that puzzling could be a sport. Like, I'd never thought of it in that way before.

[C]

Did you. Do they have puzzles in New Zealand? No, no, we don't have a homeschooled Christian boy in New Zealand. We.

[A]

We did puzzles as. I never really, like, love them, more of a Lego guy. But yeah, we've got puzzles galore in

[C]

New Zealand and we're talking specifically jigsaw puzzles.

[A]

Jigsaw puzzles. Not to be very clear any. Like, this episode includes no talk of puzzles except for the jigsaw puzzle.

[C]

Yeah. Not so delicate.

[A]

Very important clarification.

[C]

Survivor competition puzzles.

[A]

Purely little cut out bits of cardboard that you are like reassembling together into a beautiful image. So I'd heard about the nationals in America. I don't know why this is popping off so much at the moment, but the Guardian and the New York Times have both been writing about this recently about puzzling in America. This is from the independent Speed Puzzling has only been recognized recently as the World Jigsaw Puzzle Federation was founded in 2019 and hosted the world's first jigsaw puzzle championship later that year in Spain. The following year, the USA Puzzling association was created and held the country's first premier national championship in San Diego.

[C]

So it's international.

[A]

It's international. So the World Puzzling. The world jigsaw puzzling champs every year always take place in Spain, which is interesting. And there's three categories. Team, pairs and individuals. And just out of curiosity, I went onto the World Jigsaw Puzzle comp and signed up. I've signed up next year. I just went to the rules, and they're really, like. They take this really seriously.

[C]

Yeah, I would imagine so.

[A]

I'm just on their website now. World jigsawpuzzle.org just want to go through some of the.

[C]

Some of the intense rules.

[A]

Yeah. Like one of the Q and A. Can I listen to music with headphones during the competition?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Although we recommend not using them at the beginning at the end, so you can hear the notices being read out. Can I go to the toilet during the comp? Yes, you can go anytime without anyone being able to take your place during your absence. Is it possible to bring pets? Very specific questions in the competition area? And this is an area where there's, like, hundreds of tables laid out of people, like, concentrating on making these puzzles in the competition area, it is not possible to be accompanied by any type of pet. Just love these questions that are coming through.

[C]

Yeah. It's been asked enough times that they haven't put it in the official rules,

[A]

which I really love. So for this episode a couple of weeks ago, or well, be about a month ago now, we talked to Karen Cabot. She is Karen Puzzles on Instagram. She's got a big following there, and she sort of brings you into the world of what competitive puzzling is. And so I've been watching her videos for a long time because she's been competing for a number of years. And as we talked to her, she was about to head off to the nationals in Atlanta, so she was prepping for that.

[C]

Do you find watching puzzle videos therapeutic?

[A]

I like it. I like watching. I have this weird thing where I like watching people play video games, and I like watching people, like, do puzzles, but I don't want to play the video games, and I don't want to do the puzzle.

[C]

How long is a puzzle video, though?

[A]

They often speed them up. They ramp through it by her Instagram. She'll speed it up, but there's something just very satisfying about seeing those pieces being put into place. When I'm doing a puzzle, I just feel frustrated that I'm not doing it quickly. Watching someone like her do it quickly,

[C]

that's part of, like, why puzzling is fun. Is it? I.

[A]

This is.

[C]

I think speed puzzling is a different thing for what I'm about to say. But, like, doing a puzzle is fun because it forces you to slow down. It is therapeutic. And, like, I'm searching through all of these pieces and chiseling away slowly. And there's patience involved. There's. There is, like, big sense of accomplishment when you finish a puzzle and everything.

[A]

I'm wondering now why I don't get that from a puzzle. Because I get it from lego, like building a LEGO model. I'm like. And also, why is it that I think building lego? I get a bit teased for it, but puzzling. People don't get teased for puzzling. Adults can puzzle, but not build lego. I mean, I'm sure I'd say they're the same thing.

[C]

I don't think they're.

[A]

So Rosabelle, when she saw my apartment, looked around and looked at all the. The Lego and sort of made a face, you know?

[C]

Yeah. I don't know why.

[A]

There's something about. I think. I think I am bad at doing puzzles.

[C]

Okay. If you're bad at it, I could

[A]

see how it's frustrated. I'm like, where it might be tied in with my face blindness. You know, what is that bit of image? Where does that go?

[C]

Probably not.

[A]

It might be tied up with that disability.

[C]

Probably not.

[A]

So Karen gave an interview in the Guardian, and I just like this line that she gave them. Speed puzzling is a strange blend of speed, strategy, and muscle memory. Your brain is scanning for colors, patterns, and shapes while your hands are constantly moving, sliding pieces in. Over the years, the process becomes instinctive.

[C]

Speaking of face blindness, really quick. When we went to Magic Castle, the first musician we saw said he also had face blindness.

[A]

He did. He'd gotten someone from the audience and then immediately sort of forgotten them.

[C]

We all got very excited.

[A]

And I. I mean, when I hear that, I felt seen.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, this isn't just me. This man has it. It's a real thing. Face blindness. Yeah. Okay, so let's listen to Karen explain what the hell is involved in speed puzzling. Okay, so, like, just a very simple question to start with. I'd love to know your name and what it is that you do here in la.

[D]

So I'm Karen online. I go by Karen Puzzles, and I have a YouTube channel all about jigsaw puzzles and speed puzzling.

[A]

When did you get into puzzles in general? I don't imagine you started life as a speed puzzler. Was it just, like a casual thing at home?

[D]

Yeah. I mean, we were doing puzzles as far back as I can remember. We have home videos of, like, little kids Pu. I remember crawling around while my mom was doing puzzles. So we always had them around.

[A]

Oh, so it's literally a family thing.

[D]

I was the one that really took to it the most. My sister and I growing up, we would do them together. And then eventually, as I hit kind of middle school and beyond, I started doing them just on my own.

[A]

Right. So was there a point or an age where you or maybe a family member went, oh my God, like you're getting these done, like quickly and we're lagging.

[D]

I mean, it's not so much that they're lagging. I think I was maybe around 8, 9 or 10, somewhere in that age where I decided to try to do a thousand piece puzzle on my own in one day. It was the first time I had ever tried to do that. And I did it. It took me eight hours, which obviously is a lot longer than it would take me today, but yeah, and then after that, I just never really stopped.

[A]

What is the skill of doing a puzzle and how do you get better at that thing?

[D]

I mean, a lot of it is just kind of muscle memory for your brain. I think it's a lot of picturing what you're looking for and then being able to recognize that and find it and put it in place. And also being able to look at an image, break it down into the components to know where to start and where to go from there. And also just patience, I guess.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Do you have techniques like are you sorting by colors and doing edges first or you're just. You're past that at this point?

[D]

Well, it depends on if I'm doing it for speed or if I'm just doing it for fun.

[A]

Now, we're not talking fun here. All of us are only speeding. We're only talking speed.

[C]

How do we get faster at puzzles?

[A]

Yeah, Rob wants to get into this scene, by the way.

[D]

Okay, so your time starts with the pieces still in the box and you're going straight through. Like, there's no pausing the time and, you know, taking a break and looking at the image and all of that. I mean, you look at the image, but you're not pausing the time to do that. So you start, you dump out the pieces, and then the first thing you want to do is flip everything over. And some people like to sort while they flip. I'll usually pull edges while I flip. Or if you can't really do the edge, if it's all the same color or whatever, then I'll pull one element that I see. And your flip shouldn't take more than about four minutes. That's kind of the standard, right?

[A]

Just to get prepped Basically, this is

[C]

exactly how I puzzle so far. So far I'm on.

[A]

I can picture it.

[D]

Yeah. And. Yeah. So then once you have all your pieces right side up, then I like to start with the edge. Not everyone does, but if I can, I like to have a container to put everything in. And from there, it really just depends on the puzzle.

[A]

And are you looking more at, like, such an obvious question, but are you looking at the picture and the colors or the shape or. Or it's both in your brain at the same time?

[D]

I feel like I go for color first and then shape. I'm not just going to look for a specific shape and not think about what the image is, unless you're working on the section of the puzzle that's a solid color or all kind of the same thing. And then you would have to look for shape.

[A]

And when you're in a competition, what is the room like? Because I'm picturing 50 people in a room. A hush falls. You're just hearing people tinkering with pieces,

[C]

hear a piece drop on the floor.

[A]

You hear a single piece drop on the floor and someone freak out. What is it like in there?

[D]

For the individual rounds, you're pretty much right. For the pairs and the teams rounds, it's going to be a lot louder because everyone's talking to each other within their pair and their team. But for individual, it's pretty silent.

[A]

Also, there's team puzzling, where you're both two people on the one puzzle.

[D]

Yeah. So for most of the big events, you're going to have the three different categories, I guess, individual, pairs and teams. And teams is four people. But for individual, once you open the bag and you dump everything out and everyone is starting to gasp because of how hard it is, or it's like, oh, my gosh, it's so cute, or whatever they want to say, then it gets pretty much silent, and all you hear is the pieces.

[C]

What are the options? Is it going to be a cute cat or a solid brown gradient?

[D]

So you'll usually know what company it is going into it, so you'll know which company is sponsoring that particular competition. So Ravensburger does most of the major ones, so, like nationals and worlds, they'll do. And so you know what piece count you're going to get. So for individual, it's pretty much always 500 pieces, but from there, it could really be anything. For the national competition, which is coming up in about two weeks from now, they have all brand new puzzles, so no one will have ever done them before or Ever seen them before? So when you open the bag, once you're in it, like once the time has started, that's the first time you're seeing the image.

[A]

Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Wild Alaskan. Now, we have talked about this on the show before, but we're not big fans. We're not experts at buying fish in the supermarket.

[C]

Fish is hard, especially I grew up in the Midwest. You don't have access to a lot of good fish in the Midwest. So it was never something I was taught as a kid at the grocery store, I didn't see my, my mom didn't eat fish.

[A]

Same thing for me growing up. Yeah. And fish is one thing that you want to get good fish.

[C]

Right? And as I got older and started appreciating food more, I do like fish a lot, but I still have no idea how to buy fish at a grocery store.

[A]

And that is where Wild Alaskan company comes in. It's the best way to get wild caught. Perfectly portioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. And trust me, you haven't tasted fish this good.

[C]

Yeah, you just got a big box of Wild Alaska and I saw it when I dropped you off after the Magic Castle.

[A]

It's the best. I ordered a whole lot of different like portions and sizes and it's so, so good.

[C]

And you've been cooking it on the stovetop.

[A]

I just did some salmon in my air fryer. Air fryer is very novel to me. We don't really have that in New Zealand. So air frying the salmon, ah, that's so good.

[C]

Wild Alaskan fish, they're 100% wild caught, never farmed. Which means there's no antibiotics, no GMOs or additives. Just clean, real fish that support healthy oceans and fishing communities.

[A]

It's also sustainably sourced wild caught from Alaska. Every order supports sustainable harvesting practices and your membership delivers flexible shipments, expert tips and truly feel good seafood.

[C]

And if you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan company will give you a full refund. No questions asked, no risk, just high quality seafood.

[A]

Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskin.combird for $35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood.

[C]

That's wildalaskin.combird For $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode.

[A]

Support for Flightless Bird is brought to you by Bombus now the springtime Thor is finally here. Flowers are blooming, days are longer, we're saying yes to more plans. And finally getting outside. We're running, we're walking, we're moving again. And it's the perfect time to upgrade your everyday go to's with Bombas.

[C]

I've been getting back into softball.

[A]

Oh my God, you have. You keep texting me about it.

[C]

And the Bomba sports socks are truly a game changer. They're super comfortable and designed with sport specific tech for running, cycling, yoga, hiking, you name it. So it's perfect for softball. They're cushioned exactly where I need it. They're sweat wicking. They don't slide around even if I'm sliding around.

[A]

Oh, I like that.

[C]

I can just focus on the game instead of constantly adjusting my socks.

[A]

Yeah, and I picked up some Bomba sandals. They're made with this very super lightweight and waterproof EVA that's soft but still supportive. They're super comfortable and perfect to toss on and go wherever I'm going.

[C]

And this is controversial, but you're a sandals with socks guy.

[A]

I am. Is something I've embraced.

[C]

Bombas also makes more than just tees. They've got the best base layers you'll ever own. They've got Bombas underwear and T shirts. Breathable, flexible, really soft. It's a full on upgrade from your usual basics.

[A]

And for every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing and security. One purchased, one donated. With over 150 million donations and counting.

[C]

Head over to bombas.combird and use code BYRD for 20% off your first purchase.

[A]

That's B o m b a s.com bird code bird at checkout. Half man, the new HBO original limited series from Baby Reindeer creator Richard Gadget examines the tumultuous relationship between two estranged brothers, tracking the highs and lows of the pair over the course of 40 years. Starring Emmy Award winner Richard Gad and BAFTA Award winner Jamie Bell. Halfman premieres April 23rd on HBO Max. How do you see the image? Is it on the box or is it a big image in the front of the hall or something like that?

[D]

Yeah. So you get an opaque bag sitting in front of you and then you open it up, you pull out the box and it's just any other jigsaw puzzle box.

[A]

What's the most shocking shocker that you have had doing a competition? Like either an image that you were like, fuck this or you've dropped shit all over the floor. Have you ever had anything Shocking happen to you.

[D]

So my first ever competition, which was Nationals 2022, pretty close to the beginning. I was working on the edge, and I knocked the bottom part of the edge off the table and onto the floor, and I had to fully get down to pick everything up.

[A]

That's nightmare territory.

[D]

But then I ended up getting second place, so it worked out okay.

[A]

That kind of leads me into my next question, which is like, where are you in the world of competitive puzzling? Where do you kind of sit in that world? And as a side question, like, where does America sit in those world charts?

[D]

So I used to be pretty close to the top at my first competition. I got second place in individual, which was pretty good. But at that time, there were a lot fewer people doing it. There weren't even preliminary rounds at that point. It was just one single individual round with 100 people in a room, and that was it. Now there's so many more people doing it. So going into nationals this year, which is 2026, we have four preliminary rounds going into the final, and each of those preliminary rounds, I think, has 100 people in it. So now that's 400 people trying to make it into the final and then trying to be at the top. So I feel pretty confident that I will make it into the final because of, you know, trying to do the puzzles from last year and seeing where I would have placed. I am under no delusion that I will be anywhere close to top three, top ten, anything like that.

[A]

So it's tough out there. The competition's tough.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, there's just so many more people now who have gotten really fast. I think when I started, I was, you know, reasonably fast, faster than your typical person off the street, which I still am. But compared to the people who really practice and really get into it, I don't know that that's ever going to be me.

[C]

What kind of people are making up? Is it kids? Is it gender? Is it total mixed bag? A bag of puzzle pieces?

[A]

Oh, God, don't do that again. Don't do that again.

[D]

So to compete in for here in the US for most of the big competitions, you have to be at least 16. So they don't even let kids compete, even though there are some fast kids out there. And then I would say it's mostly women, probably at least 80% women, 85, 90% women. I don't know the exact stats, but, yeah, it's mostly women who want to get into it. But there are some very fast men out there as well. For two Years in a row, Alejandro from Spain was the world champion.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And where in the world is there certain countries that generally chart higher than other countries?

[D]

Yeah. So speed puzzling. The modern events really started in Spain. They have a huge speed puzzling scene out there. There's a lot of really fast people in Spain and then there are plenty of other countries where they have a handful of the top people in the world. Kristen Touve from Norway, she won in 2024. And then Veronica from Poland just won last year in 2025. And this is the world championship. Poland has recently kind of debuted a lot of really, really fast puzzlers.

[C]

Where are you? That's where I'm from.

[A]

Really?

[C]

That's what you're going to explain to my blood.

[A]

Explains it all. Are there any New Zealanders that you've bumped into? Do we come over here?

[C]

No, there are no puzzles there.

[D]

I mean, I've made a lot of Australian friends.

[A]

That's offensive. The most offensive.

[D]

I'm sure there are fast people from New Zealand. I'm trying to think. I can't think of them offhand. But I'm sure as soon as I leave I'll be like, oh, yeah, so and so.

[A]

Yeah, very kind.

[C]

We'll edit it in. If you want to just move your mouth, do a voiceover.

[A]

So wait, so two weeks out from the nationals, what are you doing to is the training, Is there a sort of something you do to get into the headspace on the day?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, it's just doing a lot of puzzles of all different types of images, like photos, illustrations, because you don't know what you're going to get in the event. Also, you'll want to get together with your pair and your team and do some pairs practice and teams practice so that all of you guys can work together well.

[C]

So is it more like building up and practicing, just giving your brain a break to do puzzles? Is that helpful? Because I feel like you puzzle too much becomes exhaustive.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there have been times in the past where I've done too much practice for this year. I feel like I've gone in the other direction and haven't really done a ton at all.

[C]

We'll see which way helps.

[A]

Yeah. So you doing a puzzle for us will essentially be practice.

[D]

Yeah, it's a great practice for nationals.

[C]

So when your acceptance speech of the award when you win. Yeah.

[A]

You'll thank David and Rob from Flightless Bird. Clearly big bad of it, big part of it. Is there any drama at a competition like do people. Because it's pressure, you know, and people have, you know, that put a lot into this. Do people sort of flip out or cheat or is there any scandal?

[D]

I think it would be really hard to cheat because everyone is sitting there watching you do the puzzle. I guess maybe you could, like, break into the room ahead of time to find out what the puzzles are going to look like.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

What kind of strategy are you building in your head if you've seen the image ahead of time?

[D]

So that one was for the pairs final. Yeah. I mean, you can just look at it and be like, I'm gonna do this section. I'm gonna do this section. This is probably gonna be the first purple.

[C]

I'll take the blue and yellow.

[A]

And what's your dream fun puzzle to do? Do you want a cute kitten? Do you want a landscape? Do you want a bit of still art?

[D]

You keep bringing up kittens. Everyone pretty much who does speed. Puzzling. Hates. Fur is so hard.

[A]

Fur is the enemy.

[D]

Yeah. If we get a kitten, everyone will be like, oh, no.

[A]

Horrific.

[D]

Sure. Yeah.

[C]

Will you give us examples of puzzles from these competitions?

[D]

Let me think. For the nationals final, they had an image from an artist named Demelzahaten, which was kind of a fantasy. Ish illustration. Just super cute. For the preliminary rounds, all three of them were kind of flower themed. And so the first one had this border of pink flowers that everyone said was so hard. And when I tried it on my own, just the border after I had done the middle took me a full 10 minutes. So that was really hard. Yeah.

[A]

Still quite quick, but still. Yeah, 10 minutes. Terrible.

[D]

But, you know, 10 minutes out of an hour. Salt olive is a pretty big chunk of time.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So then the second one was basically a grid. So it was a bunch of red flowers and individual images right next to each other, and then white flowers and then blue flowers. That one was a lot easier because you can separate it out by color. So you're basically doing three different puzzles that all connect to each other.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[D]

So that one took me, like, 50 minutes. Ish. And the fastest person in the competition was at 37 minutes. So that one was a lot faster. Anytime you can get down into the 30s, you know that it's a relatively easy one. And then the third one was so hard. It was this flower shop image, which was the. All of these tiny little bouquets of flowers. And so you couldn't really sort. You were just kind of placing things as you found them. And so it took everyone a lot longer, including me. It Took me an hour and 10 minutes. And you only have an hour and a half to do it. In the event, as that clock is

[A]

counting down, how much of a mental game is it where you're going? You're a bit behind, so you start to panic and you get frazzled and you're sort of. Oh, God. Does that play into things?

[D]

Yeah. I mean, a lot of people try to not even look at the clock at all.

[A]

Yeah. Ignore it.

[D]

I don't always do that. Sometimes I look. The thing that really gets to you is when the first person finishes, there's a murmur in the room and then a huge cheer as soon as they finish. And so you're like, oh, someone's already finished. And so if you're really close, then that's when the adrenaline hits. You're like, I'm so close. How many other people are going to be really close? And if you're not close at all, you're like, oh, no, this is not good.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Do you have a race with your partner to get that final piece in when you're doing doubles?

[A]

No.

[D]

You're a team. You have to work together. You can't be against each other in pairs. You can only work together.

[A]

Where has this taken you? Around the world. Have you gotten out of the States with these competitions?

[D]

Yeah. So the world competition happens in Valladolid, Spain, so I've gone there twice now. I went in 2023 and 2024, and then I've been all over the U.S. so there's a big event called the St. Paul Winter Carnival, which happens in January in Minnesota every year. So it's really cold. So I've gone to that a few times and then. Yeah. Wherever a nationals happen. So that was in San Diego for a while. I'm about to go to Atlanta.

[A]

Well, good luck with it.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

I feel like you're going to do well. I can sense it. We'll see on social media. Is pro puzzling growing? Because I feel like I'm always getting served up. Pro chess players at the moment, just for whatever reason, I have no interest in chess, but just like chess players just like really going at it. Where does puzzling fit in with that?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, now there's so many people doing it on. Yeah. On YouTube, lots of people are live streaming, so they'll live stream their, you know, speed puzzling practice or even just puzzling for fun. And there are plenty of people on Instagram and TikTok and. Yeah, everything.

[A]

Yeah. But you were in there early, right?

[D]

Yeah. So When I started on YouTube at least there really weren't a lot of people talking about puzzles. There were some time lapse videos of people doing giant puzzles. But I felt like I had a lot to say about techniques and strategies which have changed over the years since I started. Speed puzzling but also reviewing different puzzle brands. And so that's how I set just started doing it.

[A]

This is unrelated. I, I, my other job is writing this newsletter and the very first newsletter I sent out five years ago was about this puzzle company that kept sending out puzzles with a missing piece. Always it was just like this thing they always did. I wish I could remember the brand

[D]

name because it's Simone Nich's puzzle.

[A]

No, it's like Clementine puzzles.

[D]

Oh, Clementoni.

[A]

Clementoni, yeah. They just A whole lot of people in New Zealand had that puzzle and it was all missing the same piece.

[D]

Oh.

[A]

And it drove people insane.

[D]

I just remember in the production, like it just got caught in the dye in that one place. Some weird line for every single puzzle. I hadn't heard of that.

[A]

What's the, what's the most legit company, would you say? Or are you allowed to say with sponsors and stuff, like, what is the company that is like doing it best? No missing puzzle pieces. Great quality. The pieces like fit in properly.

[C]

Durable.

[A]

Durable. Yeah, yeah.

[D]

I mean, I do puzzles from lots of different brands and I love tons of different brands. I have been gifted a ton of puzzles. It's a small company called Soonness. They're more expensive than your typical puzzle that you would find at Walmart or whatever. But they're beautiful quality, beautiful artwork. I also really like a company called Ebu. They've gifted me a lot of puzzles over the years. Just really nice artwork. They work with pretty much, I think all female artists and really have a focus on the artists and the artwork.

[A]

Awesome.

[D]

And obviously I do a lot of Ravensburgers.

[A]

What puzzle do you want to do today for practice? What have you brought in?

[D]

So I brought two fast ones. The one that I think is fastest is a Disney Pixar gradient rainbow image. And then I also brought Postcard from Paris. So they have this postcard series. It's three puzzles and those are kind of the unofficial Speedrun puzzles. People just do them over and over again. People have gotten them so fast down to like, I don't know, 20 minutes for a single person doing it, which I cannot do.

[A]

Let's do it. I think we should crack in.

[D]

So I put the puzzle in here so that we could have the full competition. Experience. So at the event, I mean, this is a little see through, so you usually have it upside down like that so that you can't see the image. So you'll have it like this in front of you.

[A]

So this is like an official competition bag.

[D]

Yeah, I wasn't at Worlds last year, but one of my friends brought me this back from Worlds.

[A]

That's pretty cool. Okay.

[D]

And so you just open it up, grab the puzzle, dump out the pieces. I don't have them in an inner bag, so that would be an extra step that you would usually have, but we're just gonna skip that.

[A]

And what is this little pink situation over here?

[D]

So this is a box top holder for the puzzle that I have here. I don't actually need that because it can sort of balance on its own. But for the thinner puzzle boxes, you just slot it in here so you can look at it.

[A]

Okay, Ayer, can we just get into it?

[D]

All right, you ready?

[A]

We are ready.

[D]

All right. Three, two.

[A]

So for those of you not watching our video on Spotify or YouTube, Karen is laying out all the puzzle pieces on the table and she's getting to it. She's chaotically fast at this. It blows my mind. The video that we're running right now, it's a time lapse, so it's even more impressive to watch. But she's doing in sections kind of intuitively, but obviously she's sorting through colors right now. And my God, she's fast. It makes me feel even more incompetent about my puzzle ability. I mean, good God, this thing's almost done. We're at 25 minutes in real time right now. In 25 minutes, she's almost got this 500 piece puzzle done, which just I don't understand. She's almost going to do it. She's almost finishing. Oh, my God, she's in the red section. It's almost done. I'd say like 20 pieces left. This is so satisfying to watch.

[D]

33, not bad.

[A]

And she's done. My mind is blown by this whole thing. How did that go for you as a practice round? How did that feel?

[D]

That felt good. I mean, I've done this one a bunch of times, so I know you know where everything is going to go, but it's always interesting. Every time I do it, I spot a different character first or I sort of go in a slightly different order.

[A]

It blows my mind. The speed you did that at, it's crazy to me. It's absolutely crazy to me. Any particular technique you have for breaking a puzzle apart, by the way, to put it back in the box.

[D]

I mean, typically for me, since I do the videos and sometimes I want to reference past puzzles that I've done, I don't even break the whole thing up. I take it apart into sections and then I stack them up in the box.

[A]

How many puzzles do you reckon you would have done in your life?

[D]

In my entire life.

[A]

Since you're a kid.

[D]

I mean, I just looked and I'm up to. So we're 73 days into the year and I've done 43 puzzles this year. But I feel like that's not even that many because people who practice this kind of thing every night can rack up so many more than that.

[A]

And in the next two weeks, are you going to sort of ratchet up the number of puzzles you're doing? Like, what's your technique?

[D]

Yeah, maybe I'll probably try to do a few more practice puzzles.

[A]

Well, good luck.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

That was amazing. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Shopify. Now, starting your own business can be incredibly intimidating and lonely thanks to all the different hats you suddenly have to wear.

[C]

Yeah, it's really overwhelming. There's a to do list that just keeps growing every single day with things that you need to do to get things off the ground. And finding the right tool that not only helps you out but simplifies everything can be a game changer. And for us and millions of other businesses, that tool was Shopify.

[A]

So Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce here in the US from household names you might know to brands just getting started.

[C]

The really cool thing that I like, I spend a lot of time in the web design world and they have a lot of ready to use templates that allow you to very quickly build beautiful online stores that match your brand style.

[A]

And if you get stuck in the process at all, Shopify is always around to share advice with award winning 247 customer support.

[C]

And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to places like New Zealand to processing returns and beyond.

[A]

So start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.combird.

[C]

go to shopify.combird that's shopify.combird

[E]

good sleep is everything. That's why Ollie's science Bag support is made with a blend of melatonin and L theanine for both kiddos and grown ups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help your racing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie Sleep solutions for the whole [e-mail] that's O L L Y.com with Sam's Club, you have the freedom to shop your own way. Curbside pickup delivered to your doorstep. Come in and grab it yourself. Yes, yes, yes. They've got plenty of options. Your call say yes to shopping the way you want. Join [e-mail] yes and you must be 18 years or older to purchase a membership, and membership is subject to qualifications. Visit samsclub.com.

[A]

So a quick update. Karen has now competed in the nationals. I emailed her saying, how'd you do? She wrote back the event was really fun and well organized. It was the biggest nationals by far in America with 800 puzzlers just in the individual round.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

So that's a lot of people. Yeah, 800 people puzzling all at once, furiously trying to win.

[C]

Did you watch the Queen's Gambit?

[A]

I did.

[C]

When she was telling us about the competitions. I imagined that show.

[A]

Yeah. No, I had that running in the back of my mind as well.

[C]

Completely of how intense. I loved that show. I'm not a big chess. I know how to play chess, but I don't play chess. No, I mean somehow made just interesting.

[A]

Which is an amazing accomplishment. Like that show was so sexy and

[C]

cool show about chess.

[A]

Yeah. She said my best placement was with my team. We got 13th place overall. But I finished all of the puzzles and made it to all of the finals, which was my main goal. So she did pretty darn well. I would like to go to a nationals in future years of this podcast. I want to be in that room while those puzzle pieces drop. Couldn't go this year because it conflicted with some other work next year. So yeah, if you're listening to this and you think this could be the sport for you, just know that pro puzzling is a thing you can do.

[C]

You just practice and just practice tips on how to get faster if what's your dream puzzle picture?

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

Because that, that does play in a lot to like being excited to do a puzzle during during COVID I remember looking for like I found there was one peaky blinder puzzle that I could find on the Internet.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

And like that was a fun one to do. You got all the different faces.

[A]

I think I want something simple so I don't get too stressed. Probably a children's puzzle.

[C]

A children's puzzle, something.

[A]

Or maybe a toddler's puzzle. 10 pieces max. A kitten, maybe like a cat, maybe a bird.

[C]

I mean you gotta do like 250 piece minimum.

[A]

Yeah, at least. What's like an like 500 is kinda

[C]

like a simple 100 to a thousand I think is like. But I mean a kitten.

[A]

I want something cute.

[C]

You know you want something cute. But is there like a TV show or a movie like you would love to do?

[A]

No. The dream thing. I would love Mulder and Scully. X Files.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

With their faces looking dramatic.

[C]

I think that's how we get you into puzzling.

[A]

It's a puzzle. I think puzzles aren't being built for me.

[C]

I mean I bet they have X file puzzles.

[A]

They probably do. The one time I remember getting excited by a puzzle and I didn't buy it, but there was a Jurassic park related puzzle and I thought that is cool. Dinosaurs.

[C]

Do you have like a PO Box people can send puzzles to?

[A]

You don't. And I don't really want puzzles yet. But I will take suggestions of good puzzles.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

At flightless breadchat gmail.com. i do like the gimmick puzzle you can get which is just white. It's just white.

[C]

I mean they. So yeah, there are really hard puzzles. My nightmare, like yeah, I, I have seen ones that are just like solid colors that are like blends of colors. Those actually, those aren't that bad because you can, you can figure out the gradient and where things are going to go.

[A]

Oh my God. But just having one that's just entirely white.

[C]

Well, it's hard when you're, when, when you're reduced to having to just figure out the pieces based on the shape and there's not like clues within it that help you.

[A]

What do you do? She packed up the end. She packed up her puzzle very carefully. Sort of broke it into portions. Like put it back in the box. When you are done with the puzzle, what do you do? Do you destroy it? Do you frame it? Do you put it on the wall? Don't do it. What are you doing with it?

[C]

I will leave it for a little

[A]

bit and you sort of walk past and go, oh, it's a big enough puzzle. Yeah. Like a little thrill.

[C]

Like put your hand over it and like feel.

[A]

Yeah. Sort of give it like a little like oh, the texture.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And how long do you leave it assembled before you sort of move on to the Next puzzle or let it go.

[C]

It's not like, on to the next P. So the thing that does drive me nuts about puzzling is it takes over an entire table.

[A]

You need the space.

[C]

A table that you need.

[A]

A table that you need. Yeah.

[C]

I will say, when we did this episode, I was soon after targeted on Instagram for a puzzle tabletop.

[A]

Oh, incredible.

[C]

I was very.

[A]

You were getting tempted.

[C]

I was tempted to get.

[D]

No.

[A]

Cause it does. It takes over a dining room table or a benchtop or something.

[C]

It was like this big foam board that had, like, a piece that comes over so you can just, like, pack it up, move it. It had little drawers so you could sort. You could sort by color, by edges, and close those away. So if I could figure out a system to where, like, my dining table is out of commission for a week because we're doing a puzzle, but if I could neatly pack it up, put

[A]

it somewhere else that's very you. I feel that fits in the. Organize the part of your brain that also loves me putting a drink on a coaster.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That's a similar thing to you, because puzzles are also a mess. They're stressful when they're not done.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe that could be something. How much was it for one of those things?

[C]

Maybe it could be a little Christmas that far.

[A]

I love what you're served as ads on Instagram and stuff. It's crazy. It's crazy how appropriate it is to what you are currently into.

[C]

I mean, it seems like it is for a reason.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Something happened earlier while we were doing some technical things with this recording, and I heard the sound. You were on your phone briefly, and I heard the sound of a dive board kind of like. Kind of jumping. And I felt. It's sort of a twitch.

[C]

I mean, do we want to play this video on the podcast?

[A]

We probably could. It's not my best moment.

[C]

It's a fun moment. So we were in Barton Spring, beautiful natural spring in Austin, and you had taken Calvin across so that he could jump off the diving board. I had Vincent over in the. Like you did. Little shallow area. We actually did the little, like, hike up the side. My dad had Calvin, but my dad is in his 80s.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Not great knees.

[A]

No. So I said. I said, calvin, I will take you to the diving board.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And I will jump first. Bravely. I'll show you how. It's very doable. And you can follow.

[C]

Yeah, it's nice of you, but I saw Calvin was over there, and I was like, great, I'll film him jumping off the diving board. Send it to Natalie because she wasn't with us. And then I accidentally got you jumping off the diving board first. There was some moo. I don't know. He got maybe scared.

[A]

Yeah, he was a bit apprehensive about diving straight in because. Yeah, you're diving into deep water. A lot of adults doing it as well. Adults are scary. They run off and like, do a big jump.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I wanted to show him this is chill.

[C]

And you either have to like, swim all the way across or quickly to the side and to the side. He's a newer swimmer.

[A]

Yeah, completely.

[C]

He's a newer human.

[A]

So, yeah, he's a newer human. Newer summer.

[C]

But I did get a great video then of you jumping off the diving board after him. Yeah, was still rolling.

[A]

How would you describe my technique?

[C]

Here's David.

[A]

Yeah, I walked to the end, sort

[C]

of like got a bit of his nose.

[A]

Well, waddle. And then I hold my nose before I jump. Like the biggest fucking dork you've ever seen. I didn't know I'd done that. And looking back at that. Horrific. The biggest Poindexter that's ever lived.

[C]

I think Rosabelle was also watching because I didn't notice. I didn't notice the nose hold until it was pointed out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then I went back, watched the video, saw the nose.

[A]

Very special.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

When you jump in that water, you don't want that water rocketing up your nose.

[C]

I mean, I agree there's nothing worse than jumping in a pool and getting water up your nose.

[A]

I think

[C]

normally you just blow out so that it doesn't go in. But holding your nose hurts.

[A]

I'm on a forefinger. You place it around the nostrils, squeeze.

[C]

You're going up the nostril, right? Yeah.

[A]

Two fingers jammed straight up into my nostrils. But no, I'm really glad you're re watching that video just to torment me. It's good. Yeah. Calvin was a much cooler jumper. Also, I can't dive. I've never been able to dive. I'm scared of going head first.

[C]

I. I'd love to learn one day. I'm not a diver either. Yeah, one day I can attempt it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Off like the side of a pool.

[A]

My body refuses to let me go in head first. It's like.

[C]

I think, yeah, mine, I haven't tried it in a while.

[A]

Yeah. So because I like swimming, I do laps of pools. But my getting in is never graceful. It's always hold the nostrils and jump.

[C]

Well, another thing you would love about Survivor, they do A lot of swimming challenges. And there is definitely people that are jumping in and are just doing like perfect dives and really continuing their swim. Because it's a race always.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

They're jumping off, like high platforms on the big. Diving perfectly and then just graceful. Yes, very.

[A]

So they're like a fish for a while, then they surface.

[C]

And then there's the other people that are just like, running, jumping. Do the jump and run in the air and then land not gracefully, and then continue to swim.

[A]

I know what group I would be in.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm just gonna read one bit of feedback to wrap up this episode because there's a lot of feedback coming in. We just got back from tour. I still need to go through all of it, but I thought this was really was a really nice email. Anastasia said, I was very depressed yesterday. Told my spouse this, but I went to bed with your podcast in my ear. I dozed a little. My nighttime habit is to fall asleep to podcasts I subscribe to. Not that you are. A narcolepsy inducing podcast. I work later with tears streaming down my face. Goosebumps on my skin. Not RL Stein Goosebumps. Happy subconscious tears. Wow. Listening to Genevieve's clear, beautiful voice made me smile and I feel so much better today. Anastasia is referring to our latest nest session, which is a real magic episode.

[C]

It made me very happy to see how much people liked Genevieve's.

[A]

People love her so much. So much. And just a voice.

[C]

Yeah. The whole. She's got a very special voice.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, she does. It was just. Her whole vibe was just beautiful. It was the first time I met her and I instantly liked her so much.

[C]

Also, like, that was a contained acoustic version. Seeing her with like a full rock band.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Too.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Which was what was mostly the version that I saw of her.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Back when we were on tour of like, she hold it down. Really wailing.

[A]

When it's big, it's like. It's beautiful. But it's like, can be so big.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And she was getting into it in the studio here, but I imagine, like on a just giant stage.

[C]

Yeah. Very powerful and mesmerizing.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

She was cool. So thank you, Anastasia. I'm glad that episode made you feel less shitty. That's what it's nice to be able to have that effect. If you have any feedback. Flightthesbreadchatmail.com Love hearing from you. What else? There's a bunch of Rosabelle stuff over on Patreon. I mean, I don't mean to keep banging on about that. I know probably it's annoying at times, but there is some cool stuff over there.

[C]

Yeah. We did a special episode in Austin with her.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We then did another episode when we came back, recapped some of the trip. Our magic castle visit.

[A]

Yes. And there is also going up a Rosabelle confession which is entertaining for anyone that's been following along the Rosabelle journey.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

What else? I think that's basically it. Thanks for listening like and subscribe.

[C]

Vote for us Webby Awards.

[A]

Yeah. Webbyawards.com, click vote search Flightless bird. Vote for us. That would be amazing. We're at number two at the moment, which is great. I mean, that's, it's amazing we're even there.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

But we in our narcissistic minds would love to be at number one if you want to do that for us. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.

[C]

See you next week,

[D]

Sam.