Titanic Panic

Summary

Flightless Bird — "Titanic Panic" (June 9, 2026) Host: David Farrier | Cohost: Rob

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Flightless Bird, David Farrier digs into America's enduring obsession with the Titanic disaster—not the historic facts, but the lingering fear, fascination, and conspiracy theories that have arisen over a century. From conspiracy debates to deep personal traumas, Farrier seeks to understand why Americans, and a passionate online subculture, can't let go of the tale of the "unsinkable" ship. Special guest Mackenzie shares how Titanic panic shaped her life, turning childhood terror into a fascination and community.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Warmup: From Chicken Wings to Sinking Ships

• The episode begins with a lighthearted chatter between David, Hayden, and Rob, poking fun at birthday party snubs and escalating into the (tongue-in-cheek) question of whether the Titanic ever sank at all.
  • [00:29] Hayden: "There's only so long that you can stay buttoned up. You just got to fully commit to one conspiracy theory."
  • [01:35] Hayden jokes: "Yeah, I don't think it happened. Yeah, that's made up. That's a made up thing so that James Cameron could sell movie tickets."

America’s Titanic Obsession: Personal & Cultural Impact

• David lays out the frame: not so much what happened to the Titanic, but why Americans are still "terrified and obsessed" with it.
  • [02:57] Farrier gives the quick history—emphasizing this is about American fascination with the disaster.
• The hosts recall their first exposure to Titanic: the 1997 James Cameron film and the childhood mix of arousal (Kate Winslet) and awkwardness (watching with parents).
  • [04:31] David: "I remember watching Rose and Jack fucking in that car... feeling incredibly aroused. But also conflicted because mother is there and father is there."
• Titanic as a movie and cultural force—Churches' campaign for lower ratings paralleled discussions over The Passion of the Christ.
  • [06:27] David: "The church has got the rating lowered so that younger people could and watch it, which is deranged to me."

Titanic Facts, Submersibles, and Cruise Ship Phobias

• Rob and David admit neither are Titanic buffs, nor are they cruise ship enthusiasts.
  • [09:02] David: "I've never been on a big boat and I don't particularly want to be on a big boat."
• Context: No Titanic survivors remain; the last, Milvina Dean, died in 2009 at age 97.
• James Cameron's Titanic obsession, including his New Zealand residency and "Ghosts of the Abyss" expedition.
  • [10:14] David: "He puts so much of his money into deep sea exploration."

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Main Segment: Titanic Panic with Mackenzie ([15:27])

Mackenzie’s Journey: From Phobia to Passion

• Mackenzie (32, Detroit) was traumatized by the Titanic story as a child, developing genuine panic attacks and thalassophobia (fear of deep water or submerged threats).
  • [17:24] Mackenzie: "As I learned more, I remember it started to become a phobia."
  • [18:27] Mackenzie: "...panic attacks around the Titanic. And it got to the point, probably within a year where I wouldn't go to the school if I knew there were Titanic books in the library."
• The movie Titanic heightened her anxiety, particularly scenes highlighting human tragedy.
  • [19:04] Mackenzie: "The part where the woman tucks her children into bed... all those individuals had a story... That was so profound."
• Her Titanic fears were bound up with family trauma (her parents’ divorce) and OCD.
  • [21:00] Mackenzie: "Just like the Titanic, which, you know, people had said would never sink... it was an unsinkable ship. That can happen."
  • [21:34] Mackenzie: "A lot of things with OCD you just become obsessed with... it gets in my mind and it gets stuck and I cannot get it out."
• Therapy helped her reframe the obsession, drawing life lessons from disaster.
  • [21:59] Mackenzie: "My therapist... tied it to the fact that we could learn something from the incident."
• Over time, her phobia became a lifelong passion. She now collects Titanic memorabilia, participates in Titanic-themed dinners, and is active in online communities (notably Reddit).
  • [27:10] Mackenzie: "Everybody who knows me, I've got my Titanic sweater on for you right now. They know I'm obsessed with it now."
• Community and ritual: Fans gather for “Titanic Day,” recreate menus, and even give speeches in memoriam.
  • [28:25] Mackenzie: "We had a dinner where we made the dessert that they had on the Titanic... encouraged everybody there to give a speech about how the Titanic impacted them."

Titanic Theories and Arguments

• Major conspiracy theories discussed in online communities:
  • The "Switch" theory: The Titanic was really its sister ship, the Olympic, swapped as an insurance scam ([29:08]).
  • JP Morgan sabotaged the ship to kill wealthy rivals.
  • A "mummy's curse" sank the ship.
  • The hull fire theory: Ship split because internal fires weakened it.
• Online fandom can get vicious; Mackenzie experiences near doxxing for suggesting the switch theory was plausible.
  • [30:43] Mackenzie: "I had said that the. It could be plausible that that was not actually the Titanic because we don't have any images of the actual ship, which I find quite weird."
• The conspiracy debates are passionate, but Mackenzie ultimately affirms her belief in the received history.
  • [33:11] Mackenzie: "Oh yes... I 100% believe that it sank. I know it's the Titanic at the bottom of the ocean. I believe it in my heart."

Life Lessons from Disaster

• The Titanic becomes metaphor and motivation—a lesson that nothing is unsinkable, and to trust yourself over conventional assurances.
  • [33:56] Mackenzie: "Trust your gut and prepare for the worst case scenario without freaking out."
  • [32:48] Mackenzie: "All it is now is a memory, just a memory, a memory that for some haunts them. For others it's something to obsess and theorize over... But I think that's what draws it in. The tragedy, the beauty of the ship, the luxury of the ship, all the promises made."

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Concluding Discussion: The Lure of Innocent Conspiracies

• David and Rob reflect on why Titanic conspiracy theories, unlike many others, remain "innocent" and largely harmless.
  • [44:09] David: "It's not tied up to horrific political ideologies... just a very silly debate."
  • [44:45] David: "There is an entire podcast called Did Titanic sink? By a New Zealander, Tim Batt..."
• Rob fact-checks the photo skepticism: there are in fact real photos of Titanic (though confusion with Olympic is understandable).
  • [44:55] Rob: "Confirmed Titanic photos. Photos taken in Belfast during the construction before launch from 1911."
• Both hosts share affection for the playful, low-stakes nature of Titanic obsessiveness and invite listeners to share their own theories—or any other unique conspiracy.
• They close with a light note about upcoming episodes (potentially about Chili's and timeshares) and encourage messages from listeners who have Titanic- or conspiracy-related anecdotes.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [01:35] Hayden: “Yeah, I don't think it happened. That's a made up thing so that James Cameron could sell movie tickets.”
• [04:31] David: “I remember watching Rose and Jack fucking in that car... feeling incredibly aroused. But also conflicted because mother is there and father is there.”
• [10:14] David: “James Cameron... lives in New Zealand now on. On organic farm... Not where I'd expect him to end up.”
• [17:24] Mackenzie: "As I learned more, I remember it started to become a phobia."
• [18:27] Mackenzie: "...panic attacks around the Titanic. And it got to the point, probably within a year where I wouldn't go to the school if I knew there were Titanic books in the library."
• [19:04] Mackenzie: "Way too much too soon... The part where the woman tucks her children into bed... that was so profound."
• [21:00] Mackenzie: "Just like the Titanic, which, you know, people had said would never sink... it was an unsinkable ship. That can happen."
• [33:56] Mackenzie: "Trust your gut and prepare for the worst case scenario without freaking out. I think that's what I've learned."
• [44:09] David: “It’s not tied up to horrific political ideologies... it's just a very silly debate.”
• [47:05] Rob: "I mean, it's a little... too pessimistic."
• [47:19] David: "Every morning when I wake up, I spend half an hour going through all the awful things that could happen. And now I'm gonna get out of them."

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|--------------| | 00:29 – 02:57 | Cold open: Titanic jokes and opening premise | | 04:31 – 08:07 | First Titanic memories and American film context | | 09:02 – 13:42 | Quick facts, submersible, cruise ship anxieties | | 15:27 – 33:56 | Interview: Mackenzie’s Titanic obsession, trauma, and healing | | 28:25 – 32:48 | Titanic rituals, dinners, and Reddit fandom | | 29:08 – 32:00 | Titanic conspiracy theories overview | | 33:56 | Mackenzie’s life lesson: “Trust your gut...” | | 38:02 – 48:14 | Host wrap up, more on conspiracy culture, feedback teasers |

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Tone and Takeaways

Warmly inquisitive, lightly irreverent, but never mocking—even in the face of conspiracy. David Farrier and Rob approach Titanic mania with empathy, curiosity, and humor, in keeping with Flightless Bird's knack for finding the touching and bizarre in uniquely American fascinations.

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Takeaways and Reflections

• The Titanic disaster, while historic, offers a "safe space" for exploring fear, loss, and even conspiracy—without (typically) veering into harmful territory.
• For some, like Mackenzie, the Titanic is both a personal trauma and a lens for broader life lessons about trust, loss, and resilience.
• Titanic fandom is diverse, passionate, sometimes contentious, but fundamentally driven by empathy and fascination.
• The episode closes with an invitation for listeners to engage—highlighting how Flightless Bird thrives on sharing personal stories, unique subcultural fixations, and gently poking at America’s quirks.

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For more episodes, including possible upcoming stories on Chili’s, timeshares, and other classic American institutions, listeners are encouraged to email the hosts or join the Patreon community.

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Transcript

[Hayden]

Hey, man.

[David Farrier]

Hi, Hayden.

[Host/Narrator]

My little fried chicken wing. Yeah, my little drumstick wing.

[Hayden]

Or drumstick.

[Host/Narrator]

I think you're more of a drumstick

[David Farrier]

than a chicken wing.

[Host/Narrator]

You're bigger, you know, more solid.

[Hayden]

I would say a wing is a bit bigger than a drumstick. Drumstick's a tasty little morsel. Do you do feel a bit drumsticky.

[David Farrier]

I'll take that. I accept that.

[Hayden]

That's probably the nicest thing I've ever said to you.

[David Farrier]

Hey, now, there's some controversy going on. I was calling Rosabelle before and I mentioned that you were having a birthday

[Host/Narrator]

party in New Zealand that I also might be attending.

[David Farrier]

And Rosabelle said to me, what party?

[Hayden]

Is this really the forum that you want to negotiate this? And David, this feels very public.

[Host/Narrator]

I've told her about the party.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

Oh, what?

[Hayden]

But you haven't said that she can come.

[David Farrier]

I've said that she can, yeah. I said, of course you're invited.

[Host/Narrator]

We're all friends.

[Hayden]

Oh, for God's sake. Oh, now I'm gonna have to sort this out. Look, this is me and Rosabelle. Me and Rosabelle have some beef going on about who's the favorite.

[David Farrier]

Well, look, I'm going to leave that

[Host/Narrator]

with you to sort out because at

[David Farrier]

the moment it's a real.

[Host/Narrator]

It's a real disaster.

[David Farrier]

Well, look, speaking of disasters, this episode

[Host/Narrator]

is about the Titanic and Americans that are particularly obsessed with the Titanic disaster, alternate theories of what happened, etc. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the Titanic sinking.

[Hayden]

Yeah, I don't think it happened. Yeah, that's made up. That's a made up thing so that James Cameron could sell movie tickets. Are there any survivors of the Titanic or like, family members who might get mad at me for saying this?

[David Farrier]

My God, you're really swinging for the fences.

[Host/Narrator]

Usually you're such a voice of reason in this podcast. And I feel like today you're really

[David Farrier]

swinging in a different direction.

[Hayden]

There's only so long that you can stay buttoned up. You just got to fully commit to one conspiracy theory. There's a really good one that actually the Titanic wasn't the Titanic, it was this, the sister ship that looked exactly the same. And so it wasn't really the Titanic. To be honest with you, David, I think the Titanic did sink, but there's a compelling case to be made that it was actually the sister ship. And it's a. It's all. It was all a fake and it was a standin. And, you know, if people want to believe that, then honestly go Ahead. Because there are so many horrible conspiracies that you can believe in these days, but this one feels like a very low stakes, fun one.

[David Farrier]

Between not inviting Rosabelle to your birthday

[Host/Narrator]

and the Titanic sinking, what. What would you sort of say is the bigger disaster?

[Hayden]

I'd say, what is more likely the Titanic didn't sink or Roosevelt comes to my birthday. And in this one, I'd say the Titanic didn't sink.

[David Farrier]

I'm David Farrier, New Zealander, accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, way back in 1912, 114 years ago, if my maths is correct, the Titanic hit an iceberg and sunk approximately 1,200 miles northeast of New York City. Look, you probably know the story. We've all seen the film. The RMS Titanic was a British ocean liner on its maiden voyage setting off from Southampton, England, to New York city. There were 2,208 people on board, and around 1,500 died. But this episode is not really going to be about the Titanic so much as the Americans, who still find the tale incredibly captivating and really scary. And there's a group that still obsesses over exactly what happened out there, how it all went down, whether the Titanic actually sunk at all, and just how terrifying the whole thing was. And it's to those people we turn today. So prepare to see the Titanic in a way you've never seen it before, because this is the Titanic panic episode. Flag. Touchdown in America. I'm a flightless bird. Touchdown in America. Hi, Rob, how are you?

[Rob]

I'm good. David, how are you?

[David Farrier]

I'm good. I'm going to say straight out of the gate, my knowledge of the Titanic is close to a zero. I know it was a big boat.

[Rob]

Have you seen the movie?

[David Farrier]

I have seen the movie. I remember being in the cinema with my mother, Pamela, my father Alistair, and my brother Robert. And I remember watching Rose and Jack fucking in that car.

[Rob]

Yep.

[David Farrier]

And everything getting steamy and feeling incredibly aroused.

[Rob]

Conflicted.

[David Farrier]

But also conflicted because mother is there and father is there.

[Rob]

I do remember that. Came in 97. I was 11 years old. I went with my family and a friend, another Robert.

[David Farrier]

Two Roberts.

[Rob]

Two Roberts.

[David Farrier]

Two Roberts.

[Rob]

You went by Robbie.

[David Farrier]

Robbie, yeah. You still in touch?

[Rob]

Nope.

[David Farrier]

Okay.

[Rob]

But we both had crushes on girls. And I remember when the painting scene came on, we both were like, we can't. Out of loyalty to our crushes. Rob, we cannot look at.

[David Farrier]

It's so beautiful.

[Rob]

Another woman.

[David Farrier]

You can't look.

[Rob]

Naked breasts. Which I think may have been the first time I had seen.

[David Farrier]

I feel like in a movie because

[Rob]

it was PG 13 and. But it was a historical movie, so I feel like parents. It was like the Passion. Passion. The Christ was the similar kind of thing. At least in my household, where don't

[David Farrier]

remember any six things in fashion.

[Rob]

The Christ to where the rating was beyond what we would have normally been allowed to see. But because of the subject matter, my parents made an exception.

[David Farrier]

Passion of the Christ is such a funny reference in New Zealand and it might be the same case here in the States. Churches rallied to bring the rating down.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So that they could take the church kids to see it.

[Rob]

Was it PG only?

[David Farrier]

No, it was a decent rating. It was like an R16 in New Zealand.

[Host/Narrator]

It was restricted.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Because it was a man being tortured hideously. So the church has got the rating lowered so that younger people could and watch it, which is deranged to me. So I'm thinking about the first breasts I would have seen on camera. It was either. It would have been James Bond, which was just on all the time, I feel like. And it might have been there on TV though. No, it wouldn't have been TV because

[Rob]

they wouldn't have shown that on tv.

[David Farrier]

Good point.

[Rob]

They would have had a censored version.

[David Farrier]

So my memory, my first memory of breasts pre Titanic was the science fiction film. And I remember renting it, or maybe my older brother renting it for me off the shelf. I remember the COVID species, Natasha Henstridge. She was a sexy sort of woman alien that would turn into a horrific alien when she would mate with men. So she'd have sex with them and then she'd shoot out a big alien tongue and it would kill the men, but she would seduce them first. And I remember that is so severely in my brain, that movie. So that was pre Titanic for me, I believe. I do like it came out in 95. Titanic was 97.

[Rob]

I do like that. Our association with Titanic, which. This episode, most people's is the fear

[David Farrier]

that came from this obsession with this disaster.

[Rob]

But for us, it's Kate Winslet.

[David Farrier]

It was. And I think for a lot of people it would have been probably. That was like such a scene, I think.

[Rob]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Farrier]

Anyway. But moving on from such juvenile recollections of what we took from Titanic, I don't have a huge interest in it, which is why when I decided to sort of meet these people that were deeply invested in the story and are still freaked out by it.

[Rob]

Right. I mean, that's surprising. To me, I did not know that this existed still that there was a group of people that are still concerned with it.

[David Farrier]

It's a worry for them.

[Rob]

1912 is a long time ago. There are horrible things that have happened

[David Farrier]

clearing present dangers everywhere that are facing us.

[Rob]

More dangerous. And are these just people that frequent cruises because it's easy to also not go on a cruise situation. Like that's the thing.

[David Farrier]

It's not like we are commonly on massive ships.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

It's not a huge one. Quick fact check. Because Hayden was deeply worried that he was going to offend survivors of the Titanic disaster. There are no Titanic survivors still alive. Last survivor Milvina Dean passed away in 2009 age 97. A ripe old age. Amazing. If I lived in 97, I'll be so happy. She was 2 months old when the ship sank in 1912. She lived.

[Host/Narrator]

Crazy.

[David Farrier]

The youngest passenger on board.

[Rob]

It was a long time ago but it'd be very old if you were still alive.

[David Farrier]

Be insane. So Hayden, you haven't offended anyone, which is good. In 1912 it collided with an iceberg, damaging the hull's plates below the waterline on the starboard side, causing the front compartments to flood. It sank for 2 hours and 40 minutes. 1496 fatalities as a result of drowning.

[Rob]

I mean it was a very culturally significant movie at least in America.

[David Farrier]

Back to the movie.

[Rob]

Yeah, back to the movie. It was big James Cameron and just like I have very visceral memories of watching that on the big screen too. Happening.

[David Farrier]

I mean I'm a big James Cameron guy. I mean as a bit of side trivia, he lives in New Zealand now on. On organic farm, which is kind of an interesting bit of just not where I'd expect him to end up.

[Rob]

And you're going back to New Zealand. You're going to try to track him down to have a conversation with him about your next job?

[David Farrier]

Probably not. He was on a flight on my plane. He was way up the front of the plane. I was sort of mid back of the plane but I saw him boarding for New Zealand. I'm a big fan of his Titan, you know Titanic, obviously. Terminator.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Oh my God. Aliens, Avatar, not so much. But hey. The other bit of sort of information on the Titanic that I find interesting, of course is the Titanic submersible. That little sub that went down full of very wealthy people that imploded.

[Rob]

Yes.

[David Farrier]

Squashed under the pressure of the deep ocean.

[Rob]

There also was the documentary series or movie documentary where they went and uncovered it. Right. They found the. The Titanic and did they. Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Don't know. Some things my brain just doesn't get all that excited about. Space is one of them. Even though I'm into space exploration, like, good on them, but my brain doesn't get excited by it and it doesn't get excited by, like big boats or the ocean.

[Rob]

I don't know. Have you been on a cruise before?

[David Farrier]

Never.

[Rob]

Never.

[David Farrier]

I've never been on a big boat and I don't particularly want to be on a big boat.

[Rob]

Is it because of the Titanic?

[David Farrier]

No, no. I just don't like the idea of being stuck in any area for an extended amount of time.

[Rob]

Cruise ships are pretty massive. It's being like stuck in a city block.

[David Farrier]

You've been on one, how many?

[Rob]

I've been on once.

[David Farrier]

You've been on once.

[Rob]

And yes, the idea of. It's not great thinking about it, but it's. It's so massive that, yeah, this. You're not feeling confined or claustrophobic because there's restaurants, there's multiple restaurants, there's multiple pools you can go swim in.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

There's tons of floors, there's things to

[David Farrier]

do, there's water slides, there's bars, there's shows. I guess I just. I don't know. I've never had the massive urge to go. I feel like if the cruise is going somewhere, I was excited to go to like a destination. But just being in a thing, it strikes me as like being in a really big hotel for a week. I don't know.

[Rob]

Right.

[David Farrier]

No, no.

[Rob]

I mean, not for me either. Especially all of. John Oliver's done a lot covering Titanic. Titanic cruise ships and how they, like, register in different countries so that the, like, laws are different on maritime law too, is. I don't know the specifics of that to get into that. And it's not like the food's ever that great on a cruise ship. Lots of all you can eat.

[David Farrier]

I feel the food's probably the one thing I would really enjoy. It's like the terrible food.

[Rob]

All right. But the documentary was the Ghosts of The Abyss in 2003. James Cameron directed it.

[David Farrier]

James Cameron, he's back.

[Rob]

He led an expedition down to the Titanic wreck.

[David Farrier]

Because of course, James Cameron is a massive underwater sub guy. He puts so much of his money into deep sea exploration. It's all coming back to me now.

[Rob]

Yeah. So they. They have footage. I do recall that footage of them going and finding the Titanic under.

[David Farrier]

Is that where there was that really eerie photo of a bunch of shoes at the bottom of the ocean or basically where, like, corpses had, like, come to rest on the bottom of the ocean, they had decayed and there were just shoes that were left in a row. I don't really iconic, like terrifying image. Anyway, let's meet this very unique individual that I spoke to who is, I would argue, much more obsessed than the Titanic. Definitely more obsessed than me. Possibly more obsessed than you.

[Host/Narrator]

I spent a lot of time on the Titanic subreddit, reading about all the different theories about what happened and about how the ship sank, all in a dizzying array of detail. But the most surprising thing in all the posts was a small group of people who seemed deeply sad about it all. One post was titled the Most Terrifying or Traumatic thing about the Titanic. The answers came in. For me, it's the pair of shoes they discovered at the wreck. For them to be so close together at that depth means there was once a person in those shoes. Another answer. The noise she makes in the ocean. You can hear her singing and groaning as she appears out of the darkness, according to Dr. Ballard. Now, I get that the sinking of the Titanic and all the deaths are a tragedy, but it's sort of rare to find so much empathy about something that happened over a hundred years ago. So I decided to reach out to one of those deeply affected by the Titanic all these years on to try and figure out what was going on.

[Mackenzie]

I actually paint a lot, so this is my most recent.

[David Farrier]

That's beautiful.

[Host/Narrator]

It's very dreamlike. It feels like a Titanic fever dream.

[David Farrier]

A really beautiful one.

[Mackenzie]

Yep. So this is one of them.

[Host/Narrator]

McKenzie is 32 years old and she paints the Titanic a lot. She also tries to collect bits of the actual ship.

[Mackenzie]

I've got my own call it fake or not, piece of the Titanic. So there's a lot of collectors. Kevin Saucier is the guy who actually sells this. But people are major collectors in the scene, and all of them really tie back to James Cameron.

[Host/Narrator]

Tell me what you just held up then. For people that are just listening to

[Mackenzie]

the podcast, this is a piece of Wreckwood. So the salvage rights are owned by a company. But essentially when the day after the wreck happened, a lot of the wreck, when it broke, came up. People salvaged that wood and they turned it into different things. This was actually part of a chair that somebody made out of Wreckwood. And then this guy, Kevin Saucier, he broke it up and sells it. I bring this to bars anywhere with me. People argue with me that it's not real. I choose to believe it's real. And that's what I'M sticking to all

[Host/Narrator]

this is to say that mackenzie has been thinking about this particular sinking ship for a very long time.

[Mackenzie]

Just being obsessed with the idea of it and it living rent free in my head since I was six years old. So I'm 32 now. So what is that, 24 years? I live in Detroit, Michigan, in the suburbs. I have a young son. He's eight years old. I work remotely. I spend a lot of time with my pets. I have two cats, two dogs. Pretty run of the mill.

[Host/Narrator]

She has a pretty run of the mill life. But one thing that's perhaps a little different is her obsession with the Titanic. An obsession that hit her when she was just a kid, and not in a good way. For her, the Titanic freaked her out.

[Mackenzie]

So When I was 7 or 8, I was in the second grade. One of my classmates had brought me a book. It was a very simple picture book. I remember it. I was sitting in one of those loft beds reading at story time, and she said, look at this. Ship sank. And I was like, well, who the hell cares about that? So I opened up the book and I started going through, and the story was boring. But when I got to the wreck and I saw the pictures, I remember my palms started sweating, and I had this really visceral reaction of, oh, my God, this is real. This thing sank. Like, how the hell is that possible? And I remember getting very nervous about it.

[Host/Narrator]

She says she remembers going home and telling her parents.

[Mackenzie]

And that was pretty much it until, if you know, American curriculum in the second grade and third grade, they have a lot of stories about the Mayflower, the first ship traveling over to bring immigrants to the United States. And they start talking about the Titanic and other maritime stories. And as I learned more, I remember it started to become a phobia.

[Host/Narrator]

You heard that right, a phobia.

[Mackenzie]

For example, I would be at home and I would think about, you know, things being underwater, and I would feel like I was there. And I started to have. It sounds crazy, but panic attacks around the Titanic. And it got to the point, probably within a year where I wouldn't go to the school if I knew there were Titanic books in the library. So they had to remove all the books from the library. I started to have these big phobias around water, ships, anything. It got to the point where I couldn't leave my house because I would have panic attacks.

[Host/Narrator]

The movie, which she also saw quite young, didn't help things. Titanic came out 29 years ago, by the way. We're so old.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yeah. The Frozen people in the water. Way too much too soon, like. Exactly. I read the books. They don't really have all that. It's pretty redacted. And then you get to the movie and it's like he puts it all that out on display. So the media part of it definitely influenced the fear. The part where the woman tucks her children into bed and she kind of like says she sings to them and they go to sleep and they kind of go into the water. That brought it all in. For me it was so impactful because I'm like, oh my God, these are real people that this happened to. And all those individuals had a story and tying it back and learning about their stories and how it can happen to anybody all at any time. That was so profound.

[Host/Narrator]

McKenzie acknowledges that her fear about a ship she had never been on, a ship that sunk 112 years ago, was pretty weird. But it kind of makes sense when you consider conditions like thalassophobia, the persistent and intense fear of deep bodies of water, which psychologists say can be triggered by thinking about things like the sinking of the titanic or jaws. MacKenzie says she had peak fear between about 7 and 12 years old.

[Mackenzie]

And I ultimately went to therapy over it for about two years as a kid and worked through the trauma.

[Host/Narrator]

Did you find you had anxiety over other stuff? Did you have other sort of obsessions? Or was it purely the idea of this ship, this unsinkable ship sinking?

[Mackenzie]

So I had ocd, still do, big anxiety, panic disorder. And I think for me it was like the manifestation of all the things I felt as a kid. Really the crux of it was the Titanic. And to be honest with you, no, it was a single point of psychosis for me where I just felt like everything that I had in my life drew back to the incident. And I could always find something relatable about the incident.

[Host/Narrator]

Sounds a bit on the nose to say, but for her, the real Titanic back then was her parents relationship sinking.

[Mackenzie]

And I think what it was for me was my parents had separated. It was a really bad divorce. And it made me realize, like all the things that you believe are true and that are going to hold you as a child, your parents, your family structure, just like the. I'm sorry, the Titanic, which, you know, people had said would never sink. It was an unsinkable ship that can happen. And it's like your whole structure and foundation of who you are can crumble at any time. And for some reason that just absolutely freaked my shit out for like five years.

[Host/Narrator]

Yes. Ocd was also a big factor.

[Mackenzie]

A lot of things with OCD you just become obsessed with. And it's not so much like having to collect things or collect artifacts or like, learn about it. It's more of, like, it gets in my mind and it gets stuck and I cannot get it out.

[Host/Narrator]

How did your therapist kind of work through that? Was it kind of like a case of sitting with it and thinking about the Titanic until you felt safe? Like, how did you kind of get out of that obsessive mode?

[Mackenzie]

You know what? My therapist was great. She tied it to the fact that we could learn something from the incident. What can we learn from this and how can we do better moving forward? So, yes, it happened. You can't change that. But there are ways to move forward and learn from incidents, just like you do in your personal life. So maybe you had this issue with a person, you didn't say the right thing. Next time, how are you going to make sure that you show up in the right way and say the right thing? And for me, she tied it back to, like, things are going to happen to you, but how do you move forward? And I think we can learn a lot from the Titanic and also any personal situation through therapy.

[Host/Narrator]

Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Aura Frames. Now, Aura Frames has been a sponsor of this podcast for some time now. And one person that loves my aura frame that I gave to them is my dad, Alistair. Because Aura Frames shows the moments, whereas he tells the stories. And I think it's really important that you show that you listen to your dad's stories or whoever the man is in your life. Maybe it's your husband, maybe it's your partner, or maybe it's your own father. So this Father's Day preload an aura frame with his memories of his go to stories. It might be a trip that you took together. It might be a photo that you took because he had sent you somewhere or he had jogged something in you that sent you to that place. Load up his aura frame with those photos. For Father's Day, when you get an aura frame, you also get free unlimited storage. So you can add as many photos and videos as you want. And you preload photos before it ships. All of your dad's favorite stuff, all of the dad content that you have

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[David Farrier]

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[Host/Narrator]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[Host/Narrator]

Oh, I like that.

[Rob]

I can just focus on the game instead of constantly adjusting my socks.

[Host/Narrator]

Yeah, and I picked up some Bomba sandals.

[David Farrier]

They're made with this very super lightweight

[Host/Narrator]

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[Rob]

And this is controversial, but you're a sandals with socks guy.

[David Farrier]

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[Rob]

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[Host/Narrator]

I think we can learn a lot from the Titanic through therapy. It's not something I thought I'd ever hear in my life, but here we are. And, I mean, it's worked out for Mackenzie. She's a social worker now, and a good one. She's helping other people hold their shit together.

[Mackenzie]

But just, yeah, how do you grow from things? How do you learn from things and how do you do better and not get stuck in the past? I think a lot of us dwell on what I did wrong, but we never think about how can I learn from that and do better? And that shift can change anyone's life.

[Host/Narrator]

By the time she was 13, therapy had helped her out of her Titanic panic, and her interest started to morph into something else.

[Mackenzie]

And over time, it turned into a passion as I learned more about it. So this has been a lifelong thing for me. Everybody who knows me, I've got my Titanic sweater on for you right now. They know I'm obsessed with it now. It's become such a big thing. But what I didn't realize was how many people are attracted to the story, but are also obsessed with it. And every year celebrate or mourn the sinking. They have routines around it, different traumas around it, and there's a huge underground community of Titanic fans.

[Host/Narrator]

And how did you start to find out that there are other people like you that are really, you know, obsessively interested in the Titanic?

[David Farrier]

Reddit, of course.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, of course. Silly question comes from Reddit. The subreddit. So there's ocean liners is one of them. And then the Titanic subreddit. When I started reading it a long time ago, it was mostly people who were interested about the actual ship design. But then I started reading posts, it was like, hey, why do I feel so drawn to this and why am I so upset about it? And I started connecting with people on Reddit and learned, like a lot of people, on April 12, they celebrate or mourn the Titanic day. So we just had our dinner last week.

[Host/Narrator]

Yes, you heard that right. A dinner for Titanic Day.

[Mackenzie]

We had a dinner where we made the dessert that they had on the Titanic. I kind of deviated some of the meals that they had in the first class cabin, and then I encouraged everybody there to give a speech about how the Titanic impacted them. And what they can learn from it. So we rerounded that we had a moment of silence for the sinking, we ate, we had some champagne, and that was it. It was pretty low key.

[Host/Narrator]

This year I learned that people get very obsessed with the last 10 course Titanic dinner ever served, which included a very specific dessert that essentially was a boozy cake made mostly of jelly. And what do these Titanic fans talk about while serving each other Titanic food or hanging out on Titanic Reddit? What more is there to possibly discuss about the Titanic?

[Mackenzie]

People get really pissed about conspiracies around the sinking. So one of the big ones is that it was not actually the Titanic that sank, but it was its sister ship, the Olympic, because it was already damaged. And so people try to say that the Olympic is the one that's resting at the bottom of the ocean, the Titanic was never created, or it's somewhere else, what have you. That's a big one people argue about and they think it's absolutely ridiculous. Another one is JP Morgan of Chase bank that he actually sank the ship because there were a lot of people that had a lot of money on it, his competitors. So John Jacob Astor, the richest man on the ship, they sank it because they wanted him to die, which makes no sense because the money that you would have spent orchestrating that wouldn't have amounted to that anyway, so it didn't matter. So those are big things. But it's crazy because you think you're arguing about something that's pretty arbitrary. People have a lot of passion around it, actually get upset. I've almost been doxed on Reddit because I said that one of them might be true, so I never said that again. But those are the big ones. There was also a fire that had happened in the bottom of the ship, in the hull that a lot of people think weakened the hull, so by the time it hit the iceberg, it was already weak and caused the ship to split. Absolutely not true. There's no way a fire that hot would have done that. But those are the things people argue about and they get really, really into it. And I think that's where the crux of it is right now.

[Host/Narrator]

What was the slightly wacky theory that you endorsed that almost got you doxxed? Not to get you doxxed again. I feel like our listeners are pretty sane.

[Mackenzie]

They are. I hope I had said that the. It could be plausible that that was not actually the Titanic because we don't have any images of the actual ship, which I find quite weird. Quite weird. Like, why would you make such a thing and not have photos.

[Host/Narrator]

But you did really? Other, not other, not photos. A lot of photos of the Titanic?

[Mackenzie]

No. And you know what I learned, David? People on these exhibits, they will pass them off as Titanic photos or Titanic artifacts. They are not, they are the Olympics. So I'll go around the exhibits and be like, somebody will say this is a Titanic, you know, piece of porcelain from one of the main cabins. And I'm like, no, it's not, it's the Olympic. And we start talking. But that, yeah, definitely some misconceptions, perception around that for sure.

[Host/Narrator]

As I start to wrap this interview up, I find myself wondering why this? Why the titanic? Why not 9, 11 or a host of other crashes and disasters?

[Mackenzie]

You know what I think it is? And this is why I became obsessed with it in some way. It was the idea that so many people said this is an unsinkable ship, you're on it, you're good, you've got money, you're of high status, you're going somewhere in your life, you've got everything, you get on the ship, you have no thought of that at all. And all of a sudden you're done, you're in the water, you're dead. And I think for a lot of people it just draws this notion that not everything you hear is true, which is something society needs to hear right now. But you know, you're never Safe, it's never 100%, nothing is guaranteed no matter how many, how much anybody promises you anything. And so I think that's what draws it in. The tragedy, the beauty of the ship, the luxury of the ship, all the promises made. And then I think, honestly, James Cameron with the story, a lot of people are obsessed with this romantic notion of the ship. Like it's something that was mysterious and sexy and luxurious and now it's just sitting there. We all go about our day to day, people spent time and money, people died making the ship. And all it is now is a

[Host/Narrator]

memory, just a memory, a memory that for some haunts them. For others it's something to obsess and theorize over. A kind of innocent conspiracy theory to fight over just for like a final check on where your head's at or a final check on your sort of thoughts on the Titanic. Did the Titanic sink?

[Mackenzie]

Oh yes.

[David Farrier]

Okay, just checking.

[Mackenzie]

100% I have. Doxed or not, I 100% believe that it sank. I know it's the Titanic at the bottom of the ocean. I believe it in my heart. And I think too in terms of Breakup theory, which a lot of people have different theories on how it broke and fell apart. James Cameron hit it on the head. His rendition of that in his movie Titanic is 100% factual.

[Host/Narrator]

As well as wanting you to know that James Cameron's Titanic is 100% factual, MacKenzie also wants you to take from the Titanic what she took from the Titanic. A life lesson, if you will, all those years in childhood therapy over a sunken ship distilled for you. Loyal Flightless Bird listener, trust your gut

[Mackenzie]

and prepare for the worst case scenario without freaking out. I think that's what I've learned. I think a lot of people, they plan for things, they get ready, they trust their judgment, but they also trust what someone's telling them. So the policy or the guidelines, if you know something doesn't feel right, don't do it. A lot of people I think were concerned when the ship started sinking and wanted to get ready and wanted to start manning the light and they said, no, no, no, no, no, wait, this is an unsinkable ship, it's not going to happen, don't worry about it. Right? I think we need to learn from that and learn especially in American society, not what everything everybody tells you that's written or spoken by people you trust is true. So always own your ownership of the situation, trust your judgment and go for that. Don't always follow exactly what is stated. And I think I've learned that and it's gotten me out tricky situations in the past.

[Host/Narrator]

Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Pesti. Now, ever since I've got into the United States of America, there's various times I need a tradesperson or a contractor and sometimes they show up for a job and the price gets really out of control and suddenly I just wish I'd taken care of it on my somehow. Now obviously a lot of jobs I can't do on my own, but when it comes to pest control, I feel like I can because that's where pesti comes in. I have an issue with too much information with cockroaches in my particular building. And pesti has been really great. It's easy and affordable. DIY Pest Control. The kit that you get includes a pro grade pesticide that's the same stuff the pros use. A sprayer, a mixing bag, gloves and instructions you can complete in less than 10 minutes. And with pesti you can get started at just $35 per treatment with a customized plan based on your location, bugs and the climate and with a DIY kit, there are no strangers in your house or appointments to make time for. Pesti gets rid of over 100 types of bugs from spiders and ants to roaches, which is what I am dealing with. Pesti is kid and pet friendly. The pesticides they ship are fully registered and have been used in hospitals and schools all over the country. Pesti offers a 100% bug free guarantee or your money back. If the bugs don't go away. You'll get a full refund. So what are you waiting for? Fix your bug problem before it gets worse. Go to pesti.combird and get an extra 10% off your first order today. Go to peste.combird and get an extra ten percent off your order today. That's P-E-S-T-I-E.combird for an extra 10% off.

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[Mackenzie]

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[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

Please stand.

[Rob]

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[David Farrier]

I would say out of all the episodes we've done in flight, this bird that contain the most pieces of life advice that you can take away and use in your own life.

[Rob]

I don't know if that's true, David.

[David Farrier]

I was. Yeah, a really fascinating person. Deeply traumatized by the Titanic when she was a kid.

[Rob]

Learned to love which happened a hundred years before.

[David Farrier]

Yes. She wasn't there, didn't have any relatives, but just found the whole concept of it so stunning. And this unsinkable ship that sank, it broke her fragile young mind.

[Rob]

I mean, I guess I. There are instances of that as a kid when you're learning something in history class.

[David Farrier]

I mean what the. What is this?

[Rob]

The Holocaust was obviously a very impactful thing to Learn about as a kid.

[David Farrier]

Yeah. It's a scale, isn't it?

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

And your mind can't really wrap your head around it.

[Rob]

Yeah. But the idea that people are the conspiracy theories, that these. That it didn't happen.

[David Farrier]

I mean, like when Hayden raised that at the beginning of this episode, like, he. It's like a known thing, which is something I was completely unaware of until this episode that this was even debated.

[Rob]

Yeah, me neither. And I would have never considered that it wasn't real. And that, I mean, to me, that's like someone saying Pearl harbor wasn't real.

[David Farrier]

It's a little bit like birds aren't real. It's a little bit like that conspiracy theory.

[Rob]

Oh, that. Why would. Why would this be a.

[David Farrier]

So just to recap the main conspiracy theories, the most controversial one, which is what we talked about earlier, there was a sister ship, the Olympic. Robin Gardner wrote a book that kind of put this theory forward. It was called Titanic, the Ship that Never Sank, question mark.

[Rob]

Essentially, this theory. I don't.

[David Farrier]

In the hours leading up to the sinking of the Titanic, the theory doesn't

[Rob]

matter like what a ship sank. If, like there was actually the ship named this that looked exactly like the Titanic is irrelevant to. To the story as a whole.

[David Farrier]

The complex insurance scam of some kind.

[Rob]

Okay, yeah, I guess that makes it a little more interesting. But it doesn't change anything. Doesn't change like the. Yeah.

[David Farrier]

That a bunch of people passed away and died and everything else.

[Rob]

But in this theory, the sister ship sank and it was an intentional. Or they. Or the insurance claim was done after. So.

[David Farrier]

Okay, look, I'm going to read here from my notes that I took earlier as I become a Titanic conspiracy theorist. The conspiracy theorist Robin Gardner draws on several events and coincidences that occurred in the months, days and hours leading up to the sinking of the Titanic and concludes the ship that sank was in fact Titanic's sister ship, the Olympic. Disguised as Titanic as an insurance scam by its own. Is the International Mele Marine Group, controlled by American financier J.P. morgan. We know that name. Who acquired the White star line in 1902. There's another claim that J.P. morgan deliberately sank the actual Titanic to kill off several millionaires who were in opposition to the Federal Reserve. That's another theory.

[Rob]

Have you heard about the mummy's curse? Is that in your list?

[David Farrier]

No. What is the mummy's curse?

[Rob]

The theory that the ship was carrying an ancient Egyptian mummy.

[David Farrier]

Are you serious?

[Rob]

Yeah. The unlucky mummy from the British Museum. And the curse caused the disaster okay, that's. The mummy was real. The mummy was on the ship.

[David Farrier]

Apparently it was a mummy on Titanic, but there's no.

[Rob]

Oh wait, the mummy was real, but there was no evidence that it was on the Titanic.

[David Farrier]

A slight flaw in. In that particular theory, but I like it.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So there's also a conspiracy put forward by Stu Peters. Not a great guy, he gets into a bunch of Rothschild's kind of bullshit conspiracy theories in general. But he claimed that the Titan submersible implosion in 2023 was orchestrated via sabotage to prevent its own passengers from disc. The Titanic was sunk by a controlled demolition instead of an iceberg. So these theories are still being put out there into the ether.

[Rob]

Apparently the ship switch theories. Most. Most historians have considered that debunked because of the wreck site that has been visited since. I do, I do.

[David Farrier]

You're coming around to the idea, aren't you?

[Rob]

No.

[David Farrier]

The mummy theory.

[Rob]

No.

[Host/Narrator]

Yeah.

[Rob]

The mummy theory I think has the most traction. The. The fact that photo. I don't

[David Farrier]

speak your truth. No, I wanna. I wanna know like none of us

[Rob]

are listener that the photos are of the other ship. Most of the photos are on the other ship.

[David Farrier]

Like I believe her.

[Rob]

I believe that that's a fact.

[David Farrier]

Yeah, yeah. Not a lot of photos of the Titanic exist.

[Rob]

Although what percentage would. I bet my life on that? That's true. Just based on hearing one person say that.

[David Farrier]

Yes. And I have to say for the record, flightless bird. It's not always vigorously fact checked. I don't see it as an act of journalism. I see it as more of being an entertaining show at times. If there's a serious topic like ice, I'll tend to do a lot of fact checking talking to someone about whether the Titanic sunk. I do a little bit less fact checking because I just to sort of play in the sandpit a little bit. But I just. I guess I. What I like about this, there's a few things I like that as far as conspiracy theories go, this is a little bit like the moon landing where it's kind of like an innocent one that's not heavy and awful and weighted

[Rob]

down and it's not harming anyone by.

[David Farrier]

It's some silly bullshit. It's not tied up to horrific political ideologies or some sort of race war power. It's just a very silly debate that goes on. I will mention there is an entire podcast called Did Titanic sink? By a New Zealander, Tim Batt, that goes through a lot of this stuff in a very amusing way with an Australian comedian called Carlo Ricci. And that is worth a listen if you're at all. If your brain is tickled by any of these conspiracy theories, including the Mummy theory. That's a really good podcast series to listen to.

[Rob]

Okay, I looked up a little bit about this photo thing. There are genuine photos of the actual Titanic. Of the actual Titanic.

[David Farrier]

Okay, you sure? Or is it the Olympic?

[Rob]

Confirmed Titanic photos. Photos taken in Belfast during the construction before launch from 1911.

[David Farrier]

Pre being built.

[Rob]

Photos taken at Southampton before departure. Okay, in 1912, we sure it's not the Olympic? A few photos taken on board by passengers during the voyage.

[David Farrier]

Were they on board the Olympic?

[Rob]

The famous photo of the ship leaving Southampton is widely accepted as the real Titanic.

[David Farrier]

Really? By whom?

[Rob]

The confusion though the Olympic and Titanic were nearly identical in appearance.

[David Farrier]

Suspicious.

[Rob]

Which is partly why the switch theory gained traction.

[David Farrier]

Right.

[Rob]

Early construction photos, the Olympic were sometimes mislabeled as the Titanic.

[David Farrier]

I mean that was, that was genuine

[Rob]

mix ups over the year. Some specific pre departure photos are still debated by enthusiasts. A few details like porthole configurations have been scrutinized by conspiracy theorists trying to prove the switch. But mainstream historians and MARI and maritime experts, however, they're satisfied that those are real photos of the Titanic.

[David Farrier]

Okay, I'm not against you bringing in a little bit of sanity into this conversation. And again, Mackenzie also is with you. She thinks the Titanic did sink. Yes, but she does like to sometimes entertain some of the other theories. But for the record, you're more of a mummy theory guy.

[Rob]

Yeah, I think, I think that mummy was on board the Titanic. It was cursed. I mean, listen, the Skinwalker ranch episode we put out, he convinced me that curses are real.

[David Farrier]

He was pretty convincing up on that stage. Look, we all want to be open minded in this life to curses, to Titanic sinking or not. And let's remember the wise words of MacKenzie and all of this. Trust your gut and prepare for the worst case scenario without freaking out. I think that's good life advice. I'm gonna take that with me into my week. Yes, that's now.

[Rob]

I mean it's a little, it tiptoes a little too much on being too pessimistic.

[David Farrier]

It does for my liking.

[Rob]

Worst case scenario, yes, but I, I being prepared for situations. Nothing wrong with that.

[David Farrier]

Every morning when I wake up, I spend half an hour going through all the awful things that could happen. And now I'm gonna get out of them. If you have feedback about the Titanic, maybe you were. You have a relative that was on the Titanic or the Olympic for that Matter.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

Flightless bread chat gmail.com. would love to hear from you.

[Rob]

And if you are a listener that believes the Titanic conspiracy, that it did

[David Farrier]

not sink right in part two.

[Rob]

Yeah. I don't even get it. Doesn't even feel like a real. People think it didn't sync or they just thought it switched.

[David Farrier]

Switched, switch.

[Rob]

That's not even not sinking.

[David Farrier]

But people think the Titanic didn't sink, that it just said like it vanished. It's still in somewhere else. And it's purely on board. They were on the Olympic. The Titanic never set off.

[Rob]

But the Olympics sunk. Then they think the Olympics, something sunk. So who cares?

[David Farrier]

It's a big deal. It's like a plane was used in 911. These are big questions.

[Rob]

No, I don't care if it was flight this versus flight that. Like, it happened. The tragedy happened. The people died.

[David Farrier]

Some of us care about the details, Rob. You know, some of us care about the details. Nancy wrote in. With all your talk about Chili's, I hope you do an episode and hopefully go back to its beginnings. In the late 70s, when I was in high school, we'd go to Chili's on Greenville in Dallas. It was a hole in the wall. The menu is one page, the Old Timer, great soft chicken tacos, and of course, margaritas were on it. And if you weren't 18, which is a drinking age at the time, somehow they served you alcohol. Anyway, we loved it. Lots of fun memories. Do we need to go to Chili's?

[Rob]

I think we need to go to Chili's.

[David Farrier]

I will go to Chili's with you, and I will eat Chili's with you. Elizabeth says, gents, on the supper club episode, you talked about doing a Chili's episode. Lots of people want Chili's. While Chili's is quintessentially American, and I definitely think you should do an episode, there's one location that I think y' all may find interesting. On the island of Okinawa in southern Japan, there is an air base which is owned by the US Air Force. On that air base is, from what I'm told, the busiest Chili's in the entire world.

[Rob]

Sounds like we found the Chili's we need to go to.

[David Farrier]

We're going to Japan.

[Rob]

That's great. Do you know any Chili's songs?

[David Farrier]

No.

[Rob]

Okay, we'll leave it at that for now.

[David Farrier]

I'm into this already. When I was deployed there in 2023, we ate there at least once a week, and it was a great source of comfort while away from our families and home. I Hope you all do an episode on Chili's. Cheers. Liz says timeshares. We still have feedback coming in on timeshares. So much feedback on timeshares. Deeply American.

[Rob]

I think we need to do with timeshares.

[Host/Narrator]

We do.

[Rob]

You can talk to my dad.

[David Farrier]

I'm going to talk to your dad.

[Rob]

He can set you up with a meeting at Wyndham.

[David Farrier]

This is fucking thrilling. I'll invest. And my life ruined. I was just listening to the latest episode on Supper Clubs, which is no longer the latest episode. And I had to share my God awful experience with timeshares. My husband had the unfortunate experience of inheriting one when both his mum and dad passed away decades ago. This all happened before I entered the picture. So while there may have been a way out back then, there is certainly no way out for us now. It's so sad. We've been married for almost seven years and therefore I have also inherited the burden of the timeshare. What makes it even worse is that it's a timeshare on a lake in Minnesota. We live in LA and our week is early January. Minnesota in January is a level of gold I never want to experience. We've tried over the years to sell it with zero luck. We even listed it for $1 and no one wanted it. We answer a deed buyback lead nowhere at this point. We pay $850 a year in maintenance fees for a place I've never and will most likely never visit it. We've also been unsuccessful in any attempts to trade weeks. We're stuck with January overall. Timeshares are a scam and should be illegal. Never ever purchase a timeshare.

[Rob]

You're gonna have to learn from my dad how to succeed in owning a timeshare.

[David Farrier]

Do it smartly.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

From all the feedback coming in, I feel like you can do it smartly and you can embrace it. And you can also completely fuck it up and be left in a miserable situation.

[Rob]

Yeah, well, we'll find out.

[David Farrier]

I don't think I'll be buying one, but I want to find out more if you have feedback. Flightless breadchatmail.com we have a bonus episode as we always do over on Patreon. We also have chat channels if you want to talk about the show, that is patreon.com flightless bird and if you weren't aware of this already, we have video on Spotify. You can watch us over on Spotify. So if you want to go there, you can see all the visuals. We've been talking about Titanic.

[Host/Narrator]

It's all there.

[Rob]

Yeah. You just, just toggle on the video.

[David Farrier]

It's actually pretty cool. We have a whole visual element to the show that you're missing out on. If you're not watching it on Spotify flight spreadchat gmail.com we would love to hear from you. Any Titanic theories? Maybe you've been on a different sinking ship and you have some feedback on what that was like.

[Rob]

I think generally. Any other conspiracy theories that you've bought into? This was a fun episode. I wouldn't mind more of.

[David Farrier]

Yeah.

[Rob]

More of this.

[David Farrier]

I haven't seen you with that big grin on your face while you're listening to that documentary in like a really long time. Like just genuine joy in what you were hearing.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[David Farrier]

So yeah, if you have any in your family or you have any specific beliefs of maybe conspiracy theories that aren't quite so widely known. And it may be just, you know,

[Rob]

but also I like the idea of widely known that we don't know about that there's like this big group in Minnesota that thinks the Minnesota Timberwolves are mole people.

[David Farrier]

I would love to hear about that as well. FlightTheSpreadchat Gmail.com we're always there. Rob and I. We wait by that email address all day for your message to come in. We do, so please send it. We'll see you next week.

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[Host/Narrator]

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[Rob]

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[Rob]

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