Train Crashes

Summary

Flightless Bird: "Train Crashes" (March 17, 2026)

Main Theme

In this eye-opening episode, David Farrier and his American cohost Rob dive deep into the alarming rate of train crashes—particularly collisions between trains and cars—in the United States. Drawing from David’s outsider (New Zealander) perspective, the episode explores why these accidents are so frequent, the entrenched interests resisting safety upgrades, and what it’s like to work on the front lines of train crash litigation. Special attention is given to the lived horror and bureaucratic indifference that defines America’s rail infrastructure.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: How Bad Is It?

• Staggering Numbers:
  • About 1,300 train derailments occur annually in the US (00:38).
  • Last year, trains hit 1,870 vehicles at crossings, with 247 deaths and 623 injuries (03:47; 41:06).
• Deregulation & Oversight:
  • Post-1970s deregulation led to just six train companies handling almost all rail freight, with minimal federal oversight ("about 1% of activity") (03:47).

Quote:
"That's three and a half per day... 247 people died in the process... This whole thing blows my mind."
—David Farrier (03:47)

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American Attitudes Toward Trains

• Rob and David’s personal anecdotes blend dark humor and disbelief as they contrast American and Kiwi perspectives.
• Rob: Train safety drilled into him as a kid (e.g., school buses must stop and look at tracks) (10:28).
• Classic American childhood memory: flattening coins on train tracks with grandma (13:12).

Quote:
"My grandma... would take us to the train, give us coins. We'd put them on the track, wait for a train to come by... and then go collect the flattened coins."
—Rob (13:12)

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The Human Cost: Inside Train-Versus-Car Litigation

• Interview with "Caroline" (pseudonym)—plaintiff's litigation specialist whose law firm exclusively represents motorists hit by trains (18:20).
  • Shock at how many people are gravely injured or killed (“You’d be shocked... and it was totally preventable” —Caroline, 18:51).
  • Goliath-sized opposition by corporate railroads reluctant to install adequate safety devices (lights, gates).

Quote:
"They will not put the lights and the arms in every single crossing... We battle Goliath every day."
—Caroline (19:45)

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Why So Many Crashes?

• Causes:
  • Poor sight lines due to overgrown vegetation or structures obscuring train views (26:16, 27:25).
  • Inadequate warning systems at crossings (many have just a “crossbuck” sign, no lights/gates) (21:31).
  • Trains often cannot be heard in time due to speed or car noise.
• Railroad’s Responsibility:
  • Many accidents stem from railroads failing to meet their own safety standards and federal law (28:50).

Quote:
"The most common reason... is because the railroad does not maintain its crossing according to its own intercompany rules and the federal laws that govern them."
—Caroline (28:50)

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Legal & Institutional Barriers

• “Blame-the-driver” Culture: Railroads’ primary defense is always to blame the car operator—often regardless of actual conditions (30:22).
• Preemption Loophole: If federal money ever funded a crossing’s warning device, railroads can claim exemption from additional liability or upgrades (29:09).
• Jury Manipulation: Railways actively seed communities with “Operation Lifesaver” stop/look/listen campaigns before trials to sway juries (35:16).

Quote:
"They ran an Operation Lifesaver event so that the jury pool would be tainted... It's so cynical, isn't it?"
—David & Caroline (35:16)

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The Inaction of Rail Companies

• Technology exists ("positive train control") to automatically slow or stop trains before hitting an obstacle, but rail lines refuse to retrofit engines ("just won't spend the money" —Caroline, 35:45).
• Lights/gates could be installed on all crossings for under $1 billion, a negligible sum for these companies, but there’s little incentive beyond profit (38:32).

Quote:
"Those six Class 1 railroads could pool their resources... put lights and gates at every crossing... or at least less frequently."
—Caroline (38:32)

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Broader Impact & Relentless Status Quo

• No trend of improvement: Annual fatality numbers stay flat over decades.
• Rural and low-income areas are disproportionately affected.
• Responsibility off-loaded to the public through campaigns; only school buses and hazardous materials carriers must legally stop at every crossing (39:55).

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Emotional & Psychological Toll

• Both the legal professionals and the train engineers are deeply traumatized by the carnage.
• Engineers are pressured to keep trains moving, rarely intervene early, and aren’t even told to report missing/broken signage (31:48; 33:54).
• Caroline won’t ride Amtrak or any US train (“No, absolutely not... I can guarantee you there’s some bullshit going on” —42:24).

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Amtrak Isn’t Immune

• Amtrak often operates on privately owned tracks maintained by the Big Six, exposing it to the same risks as freight.
• Famous incident: Even a passenger Amtrak sleekly hidden behind cornfields resulted in carnage (41:43).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If a person killed as many people as the railroad companies do, that'd be the most horrific mass murderer America has ever seen."
  (Caroline, paraphrased by David, 42:58)
• "It’s like a pop can getting run over by a city bus."
  —Caroline, on the force of a train hitting a car (20:04)
• "I do some big drives around America. I've definitely driven over railway tracks that didn't have an arm."
  —David Farrier (39:42)
• "I stop at every single railroad crossing that I come to, even if it pisses people off behind me, because I don’t trust those lights and gates either."
  —Caroline (39:42)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:38 – 03:47 : Overview of crash/derailment stats, arc of inquiry.
• 18:20 – 22:48 : Introduction to Caroline, her role, and the litigation process.
• 26:08 – 29:02 : Detailed breakdown of why crashes happen (sight lines, warning devices).
• 30:22 – 35:16 : Legal strategies & “blame the driver” defense.
• 35:45 – 38:50 : What tech could fix train crashes and resistance to implementation.
• 41:06 – 42:58 : Broader implications: Amtrak, the human toll, and train professional trauma.
• 46:00 – End : Co-hosts’ reflections, broader discourse on American infrastructure, wrap-up.

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Flow & Tone

David’s outsider curiosity is met by Rob’s sometimes darkly comic, sometimes nostalgic American take. The interview with Caroline anchors the episode in hard realities and a palpable sense of frustration at rail company indifference. The episode achieves both an educational and deeply personal tone, blending horrifying statistics, relatable anecdotes, and passionate pleas for systemic change.

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Practical Takeaways

• The US rail infrastructure is fatally underprotected; hundreds die each year needlessly.
• Railroads resist even basic safety upgrades, preferring profits and legal defenses over public wellbeing.
• If you find yourself at a crossing: Always slow down or stop, never assume it’s safe, visually clear both directions even if gates/lights are present.
• Modernizing America’s rail safety would take only a tiny slice of these companies’ revenue—but change is unlikely without public pressure.

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Listener Engagement

• David and Rob call for personal stories of near-misses, legal battles, or experiences with train crossings (flightlessbirdchatmail.com), promising to feature them in future feedback segments.
• Train tales—flattened pennies, brushes with danger, and feedback on rail infrastructure—are warmly encouraged.

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In Summary

"Train Crashes" expertly exposes a hidden crisis in American infrastructure, illuminating the human and systemic failures behind appalling annual casualties. With a riveting insider interview and candid cultural reflections, the episode prompts listeners to rethink the taken-for-granted risks lurking at the nation’s railway crossings.

Transcript

[A]

Hello. Hi, Rosabelle. How are you?

[B]

I'm good.

[A]

How are you? I'm good. Now, am I right in thinking you had a giant birthday celebration last night? Correct.

[B]

It was not giant. It was very modestly sized.

[A]

So you're not too hungover today?

[B]

Look, size has nothing to do with hangovers.

[A]

Also, something I find, I've always found interesting about you is you. You tend to. When your birthday comes around, you don't have the one thing you tend to have a month of sort of ongoing bullshit. Would you agree?

[B]

Okay, yeah. I mean, you're correct for calling me out on that, but that's not what happened this time around. Even though.

[A]

Well, when was your birthday? How long ago? And Today is the 28th as we record this.

[B]

Yeah, but I was busy. I couldn't have a party.

[A]

Now, today's episode, Rosabelle, is about trains again. And I know we last talked about trains when we did the train hopping episode. Today, we are talking about the huge number of train versus car crashes in America because America has so many cars and so many train lines.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so I wanted to play a little game, and. And, I mean, it's sort of serious, so it probably shouldn't be a game, but I want you to guess how many train derailments the United States has every year. Trains leaving the tracks in one form or another?

[B]

2.

[A]

1300 is the correct answer.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

What?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that kind of sets the scene for this whole episode. It just gets more hectic from here.

[B]

I've got so many questions.

[A]

How many trains do you think hit cars? How many times did that happen last year?

[B]

618.

[A]

79 times.

[B]

Oh, my God. My brother works in Melbourne on truck stuff, but he says over there, there are trucks that can turn into trains, and then you just drive on the tracks.

[C]

What?

[A]

Trucks can turn into train.

[B]

I hope I've got that right. I might be making it up.

[A]

I'm David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, ever since we did a story on train hopping, I haven't been able to stop thinking about trains, these magical things that weave their way across the epic landscapes of the United States. Rob and I keep talking about taking a train trip for this very podcast, Taking in America as it speeds by out the window. Well, after putting together today's episode, I'm not so sure about that train trip. There are around 1300 train derailments in the US every year. That's three and a half per day. Robert Since 1975, those derailments have killed 465 people. Twelve and a half thousand people maimed along the way. Then there are the incidents of trains hitting cars, mostly at railway crossings. Last year trains hit 1,870 of them. 247 people died in the process and 623 were injured. The year before that, even more people died being hit by America's trains. This whole thing blows my mind. Trains used to be heavily regulated, but deregulation in the 70s mean there are now six train companies that run the majority of things here, overseen by the Federal Railroad association, which only has the capacity to oversee about 1% of train activity in the USA. And that's a problem. In this episode, I talk to a woman who's been working at a law firm for over a decade that purely just represents motorists who have been hit by a train. So prepare to hear our train tooting theme song like you've never heard it before because this is the train crash episode. Robert, how are you?

[D]

I'm good. How are you?

[A]

I'm good. I'm excited about this topic today because I feel like it's a. I feel like we do. Some topics that I feel are like, how do I frame this?

[D]

Very weird and specific.

[A]

Weird and specific. And I want. I don't want to be pretentious, but kind of worthy. Not saying that they're not all worthy, but I feel it has something to say.

[D]

Well, and you feel like you've like found a story. Like when we're doing Candy, Candy, Candy. We don't know. That one's not gonna like blow anyone's

[A]

mind in saying that they're good episodes. People seem to listen to them. But the bit of me that gets excited is like when I feel like there's information that we're unearthing.

[D]

I agree.

[A]

That is sort of, I don't know, I think blowing minds and kind of sort of putting light on something that maybe people haven't thought about too much before.

[D]

Or just educational.

[A]

Exactly.

[D]

Maybe that's. People are going to hopefully get something out of an episode and they're not going to when they are hearing about 90s Nickelodeon.

[A]

Exactly. Okay. Housekeeping. Rob, what have we got?

[D]

Housekeeping. Before we start, we have some live shows. Tickets are on sale for those.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Links for those shows are in the show notes. But we're doing March 29th in Salt Lake City at the Depot, April 2nd in Austin at EMOS, and April 4th in Dallas at the Texas Theater. So if you're in any of these areas or close to them.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Come see David and I, we would love that.

[A]

We love nothing more than looking out into audience and seeing people there. It's one of the best things that can happen. The nightmare is looking out and there's no one there. Horrific. Imagine that.

[D]

Empty seats. Not fun for us, but maybe still fun. If it's like 20 people.

[A]

Yeah, I think 20 and above. As long as, like, your mom and dad are in the audience, I'm generally pretty happy.

[D]

No, I just mean if there's like a really, really, really bad turnout. Yeah, that could maybe be fun too.

[A]

Oh, yeah, Completely. Just novel. Performing for 10 to 15 people at once. A whole show. So much effort put into it. Yes, 15 people. Loving every moment.

[D]

And if you have suggestions for topics, places for us to go see or eat@flightthespreadchat gmail.com and specifically if you're a taxidermist.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Or have any.

[A]

We're still looking fun. We've been looking for fun for a while. Still looking.

[D]

Or any large weird things that you own that you think would make sense and be fitting for our show, Write us an email.

[A]

That would be amazing. Flightless breadchatmail.com as usual. Love your feedback. I assume if you listen to this, you listen to the end of the episode, but if. If you've been tuning out at any point and not getting to this. One of my favorite bits of the show is reading out your feedback at the end. Because the amount of stuff we get that is enlightening and funny and weird. I've never been more grateful to set up a generic email address to receive, like, the weirdest stories and personal reflections. And I love reading that at the end.

[D]

Another train episode. So I. I had jotted down a few notes and then forgot. We did a train hopping episode.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[D]

And I definitely have told all of these stories. Any story I have about trains, you

[A]

know, that's actually something interesting to think about when you. When we do this, like once a week and we've been making this podcast for years now, inevitably you do start to repeat certain elements. Right. It's like our lives only have so much kind of in them that we can grab and pull into the show. Yes.

[D]

And we are ourselves on this show. So, like, I don't even. Sometimes it blurs of, like, what did I tell you at a coffee shop?

[A]

I know. Versus what I.

[D]

What we talked about on a podcast.

[A]

Completely. It gets really weird at times. I have that exact same thought of, like, have I bought this up before? Have I not? What have we talked about? What's your favorite train reflection or thought? What did you scratch off the list? Because you're like, oh, my God, we've talked about this already.

[D]

No, it was just we. We did a train ride up to Oakland through Santa Barbara, which just came up on a. Yeah.

[C]

Recording.

[D]

We did it earlier this morning. I think I very much romanticized train rides.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Same Darjeeling Limited. This is unpopular opinion, but is one of my favorite Wes Anderson movies.

[A]

It's a deranged take. Clearly, Life Aquatic is the correct answer.

[D]

Yeah, I know. But I accept it. The whole family dynamic, brother thing. I think in timing of watching that. So because of that, I really romanticized that.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Trains took that train ride up with Calvin. This was before Vincent was born.

[A]

Had a beautiful time.

[D]

Yes. But the train ride was not what it was during COVID We were gonna take the trip back. Already booked tickets for the trip back. And we were like, oh, no, we're just gonna rent a car and drive back.

[A]

Once was enough.

[D]

Once up was enough. With a four year old.

[A]

My question to you with trains, because this episode is something that I hadn't thought about a lot before. Like, essentially, I am about to talk to a woman. We've had to anonymize her completely. She's worked at a law firm for over a decade now.

[D]

I would say it's a good sign for our episode when we have to anonymize. It's a first person's voice entirely.

[A]

Yeah. It's a first with this. Just because she has certain insights that she wants to keep her identity out of it. It's amazing that she's giving any of these insights in the first place. And yeah, she's great and she's insightful and I just never thought about trains versus cars before. But of course, in this country where there's so much railway and so many people in cars, occasionally trains and cars are going to meet. What I didn't understand is how often that would happen and how little. The train companies, especially the commercial train companies, appear not to care as much as I'd argue they should about this.

[D]

I don't know. I. I think we're gonna learn that. It's not a weird take, but to me, train safety.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Has always been a thing. At least growing up near Chicago, interesting train stations. There was like Palatine train station was nearby. You take that into the city. Like there were crossings at every train track near us that would go down and like cars would have to wait and it would take forever.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

School buses. If they went over a train track, even the crossing wasn't down, they had to stop, open up their window and look out to see if there was a train coming.

[A]

Yeah. Sight line. Not just, like, trust.

[D]

Yeah. Because I think it was 95. There was a school bus hit by. I don't know if this is why, but there was a school bus hit by a train. Nightmare scenario in Fox River Grove, Illinois.

[A]

God. With, like, kids on board. Yeah.

[D]

It killed seven kids.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Properly horrific.

[D]

Um.

[A]

Jesus.

[D]

But, like, train tracks are a thing. I remember, like, my. My sister got in a car accident once because she was stopped on a train track and the train started coming and she just had to pull forward and hit the car in front of her to get off the train track.

[A]

That's. So cars had stopped and she was just sort of.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, you're not supposed to stop on the train track.

[A]

No, but that's the thing sometimes when you're driving. I've done this in New Zealand, where you're just sort of in your own world and you don't realize the traffic in front of you is going to stop. Yeah. And so you end up parked on a line. And I feel like at some point, my TikTok and Instagram feeds both threw me into an algorithm of watching nothing but cars getting stuck on railway crossings. And either.

[D]

What a weird algorithm there, believe me,

[A]

and either just narrowly escaping or getting completely taken out.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

When you were a kid in America, was it. Were you educated at school or with the safety campaigns? Was it just your parents being like, look both ways or whatever? Like, do you remember any of that?

[D]

I think it was school, like, I think we were taught. But I do. I mean, I also think it's different when you go to more rural areas in different parts of the country where there's. They're not highly populated completely, and where

[A]

there's not a crossing every time, there's just road meets tracks.

[D]

And I will say most of the trains we were dealing with were commuter trains into the city. And then you'd go out to the more rural parts around, and that's where the longer freight trains were.

[A]

Yeah. Right. I also feel that there are so many movies where there's that scene where a train is coming and either, like, someone's on the tracks running away on a bridge or something, or I feel like it just bleeds into pop culture so much as well.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Cause there's obviously a fear we all have and things happen with train tracks.

[D]

Yeah. But I remember as a little Kid, though, my grandma, who's passed, she lived near a train station, and she would take us to the train, give us coins. We'd put them on the track, wait for a train to come by.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And then go collect the flattened coins.

[A]

Sorry. This is really incredible. That was a thing. Just your granddaughter. So this was like, a thing American kids would do.

[C]

I don't.

[D]

My grandma would do. I didn't. Yeah. And how much other people have done it?

[A]

Wait, so grain would be like, go

[D]

down into those tracks that old at that point.

[A]

Okay. And you'd put these coins in and how much would they. Flat.

[D]

Now they're completely flattened, and you. I mean, you have to go find them, because when they get run over, they're flying all over the place. But it's like, go line up a bunch of pennies and nickels and dimes on the train track, scurry off, wait for a train to come, and then go and collect them.

[A]

That is something I've never heard being done before, and that's really novel, and I kind of get the appeal.

[D]

Well, have you seen some museums have the, like, crank things that they'll, like, flatten and.

[A]

No.

[D]

In bevel. Like a design on them. No.

[A]

I'm being blown.

[D]

They look like that.

[A]

You weren't ever worried about derailing the train by putting things on the tracks or something?

[C]

No.

[D]

Trains are big, and I've heard that.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean, a little there. There's rocks all over that are much bigger than the pennies.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[D]

That definitely some end up on the track and.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

That's not derailing a train.

[A]

I'm also reminded of a very. Another specific bunch of videos that get sent to me as people for whatever reasons, falling onto the tracks or jumping down to pick something up. And then there's a train coming. Of course, the problem being now there's AI everywhere, and a lot of them are just.

[D]

Well, so is that where you're envisioning we're putting Penn. Yeah, no, this is like.

[A]

Absolutely.

[D]

This is like.

[A]

Yeah. The train stage. Like jumping down.

[D]

No, no, no. That's.

[A]

You're thinking her lowering you down onto the tracks and then, like, grabbing you back up again.

[D]

That's more like city trains.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Out in the suburbs was much more like you're walking to a train track, street level.

[A]

I understand. This seems way less intense and psychotic than I was originally thinking. Not.

[D]

Yes. Not the L train that's going underground that you're jumping down to.

[A]

Yeah. I was picturing sort of like New York subway Y.

[D]

You know, I've always heard rumors that it's, like, pretty electrified. I don't know if that is just to discourage people from.

[A]

I also have that exact fear in my head now. I would never. No. But I've touched train tracks out. This is interesting. In my brain, American subways are electrified. Like, I'm worried if I jump down into a New York subway, I would get fried. Train tracks out in the middle of Arizona I'd happily touch with my naked body and feel like I wasn't gonna be able to.

[D]

Are you putting your butt on these trains?

[A]

I'm putting my butt on them, yeah.

[D]

But I wonder if there's any truth to that or it's just like they

[A]

say, that it's an error in myth to keep people away. I'm just gonna quickly Google that now. Are subway tracks electrified?

[D]

We're really stupid for not encouraging and

[A]

also never jump onto tracks to figure this out. Most subway tracks are electrified, so it's subway, though. Using a highly dangerous third rail that carries between 600 and 750v DC. Are train tracks electrified? It is funny. These kind of facts feel so dumb not knowing them. Yeah, this feels real silly. You know, it's like Googling one plus one. Well, I guess it's not universally electrified when it comes to train tracks, so

[D]

it probably depends on if it's like

[C]

a.

[D]

I feel stupid.

[A]

No, say it defenses. What?

[D]

Like a steam engine powering the train versus the subway.

[C]

That is.

[A]

Okay, so there's a whole. There's a. There's a whole Wikipedia page called Railway Electrification. So just find that. And if you want to find out about this. But again, stay away from train tracks in general. Don't wait to find out whether they're electrified. Just stay away from them.

[D]

You know, I think rural train tracks, like, maybe go put some pennies on them. And I mean, watch what you're doing and do it safely. But yes, it was fun.

[A]

Would that be one of your favorite childhood memories? Would you say?

[D]

It's a good one?

[A]

It's a good one. Positive.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

That's so cute.

[D]

Grandma Lala.

[A]

Grandma Lala. Why Lala?

[D]

Her name was Loretta.

[A]

That's such a cute grandma.

[D]

When my sister was a kid, she couldn't say Loretta, obviously, so Lala became Lala her name.

[A]

Okay, so let's hear from Caroline. Not her real name. And I'm curious, Rob, if, like me, your mind was kind of blown by this.

[D]

You have new fear is about to be unlocked.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I've been talking to Caroline for a While now going back and forth to make sure I understand things properly to the point where she's probably sick to death of talking to me. For the last decade, she's held a position at a law firm that has a very specific area of expertise.

[C]

I work for a very small but very successful plaintiff's personal injury litigation firm. And the team that I support specializes in people who get hit by freight trains.

[A]

I've changed her name for the story and kept out a bunch of details due to confidentiality constraints. As I said earlier, a lot of Americans get killed by trains every year. Hundreds, thousands more get injured. So she has plenty of work. How many people are getting hit by freight trains?

[C]

When I came here for my very first interview and my boss sat me down and told me we represent people that get hit by trains, I was so afraid because my face shows whatever I'm thinking immediately before I can pull it back. And so when I thought to myself, duh, how hard is it to not get hit by a fucking train? And I was hoping that wasn't flashing across my face. But you would be shocked at how many motorists get hit by trains and are either irreparably maimed and or killed. And it was totally preventable. It's the railroad's fault. And they always put profits over people. And they do not care how much they spend litigating this shit. They will not put the lights and the arms in every single crossing in the country just to make them all safe. So we battle Goliath every day.

[A]

In this case, Goliath means the six giant train companies that run things here, sending freight all across the United States. And the problem is a lot of the train tracks weave their way through places where humans live and where humans drive. And cars and trains don't go so well together.

[C]

One of our experts on the witness stand likened it to a pop can getting run over by a city bus. And the amount of forces depending on how that train is loaded and the inertia when those engineers have to throw those trains into emergency, sometimes it takes them a mile and a half to stop.

[A]

With the cases you take on, how often are you representing someone who has been hit and has been maimed and injured? And how often are you representing a partner or, you know, the person has passed away and you're representing someone else? There's always the person that's been hit. And if they die, there's no case.

[C]

No, no, if they die, their family is entitled by law to file a wrongful death suit against the railroad.

[A]

How often Is the person left alive and how often is it a family that's pursuing it?

[C]

Roughly, it's nearly half and half, but maybe skewed a little bit more like 65% die. The rest are maimed just because of the forces that are at play. But I had a case. It was actually the second case at the same crossing in the same county in the same state. There were five passengers in the car. And if you saw what it looked like after it got hit, you would not believe that anyone survived it. And all five of them survived, but three of them have traumatic brain injuries. The other two have ptsd. I mean, they're not unscathed, but they are alive.

[A]

Chapter One why are trains hitting cars all the time? As I noted earlier, trains hit 1,870 vehicles last year. To me, that's a pretty significant number. And it begs the question, why? Why are so many trains hitting cars? It's not like drivers want to get hit by a train. I'd argue most Americans want to avoid being hit by a train. It seems like an objectively terrible thing to happen in your day. And I realized that when I first started talking to Caroline. I was picturing railway crossings as this big arm that comes down along with flashing lights and lots of dinging noises. But of course, here in America, that's not every railway crossing. Often it's just a sign on the side of a road indicating that train tracks are coming up. And it turns out sometimes that's not enough. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Wild Alaskan. Now, I don't know about you, Rob, but I never trust myself to buy fish and seafood in general. I'm always worried it's not going to be fresh or it's not going to taste good. All those problems have been solved with Wild Alaskan.

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[C]

Most of the time when someone gets hit by a train, it's because they couldn't see or hear the train in time.

[A]

What are the main things that you find are causing these crashes?

[C]

There are myriad of reasons why that could happen, but more often than not, it's vegetation. The vegetation can get real wild and still have nothing done about it. There's this picture that we have from a case way, way, way before my time here. And my boss said, look at this picture and point to me where the train is. And I was like, there's not a train in this picture. He's like, no, I promise you there's a train in this picture. The picture was taken from the point at which our driver would have needed to see the train. And it was so obscured you could only see the tiniest little silver top above the corn stalks of an Amtrak train. I had a case where the blockage was by a grain elevator that the railroad couldn't do anything about. They're required to maintain their right of way, but that fat just off of their right of way. But instead of putting in lights and gates because they knew people couldn't see, they just left it alone. And there was a crossing accident there. Now it has lights and gates.

[A]

So a car not seeing an oncoming train is a big one. Not hearing a train is another biggie.

[C]

It's going so fast that it's outpacing what its horn is doing. If you're blasting music in your car and you don't see it or hear it, by the time you do see it or hear it, you're past the point of no return. You don't have enough time for your brain to do the perception, reaction time and then get stopped. So you're basically on this collision course that you don't even know about. And then you get plowed into. And I am so sad to report, the ones who die are the lucky ones. If we think that the cause of the accident was because the horn was sounded improperly, we have to hire audiologist. We always hire a 3D drone accident reconstructionist who flies their drone. And the technology has gotten so good that they can place every leaf that was present on the day of the crash. And then they can recreate the crash with all of the black box data, and they can show what it would have looked like if the railroad would have done their job and that the accident wouldn't have happened. And then they can show how the accident was nearly unavoidable.

[A]

Caroline says that, sure, sometimes drivers are fully at fault for getting hit. They're drunk, or they're driving past barriers like complete idiots, but more often than not, drivers aren't drunk, and they don't have a death wish.

[C]

The most common reason that these things happen is because the railroad does not maintain its crossing according to its own intercompany rules and the federal laws that govern them.

[A]

What kind of arguments are these train companies putting forward to try and say, hey, it's not us. It's on this idiot who got hit

[C]

before we get to trial? They always try to file this motion, and it is a legal concept called preemption. That's pretty esoteric, but it basically boils down to if the railroad can prove that any federal money hit the warning devices at any particular crossing, then that crossing, by law, is deemed safe, and they don't need to do anything else with it. So they try to make a case for that, and they go back into the county where it happened and dig out all these records from the 1800s or whenever that land was conveyed to the railroad, and they try to prove that federal money touched the signage and

[A]

the warning devices, those warning devices, pretty basic.

[C]

The railroad considers the advance warning sign a warning device, and that X sign that says railroad crossing, white with black letters crossbuck is what it's called. They call those warning devices. And if they can prove that any federal money touched it, then it's deemed safe by the federal government, and that's that. And so then if they lose that argument, we press forward and go to trial. And then at trial, it's just basically, blame the driver, blame the driver, blame the driver.

[A]

Chapter two, blame the driver. The person driving the car that gets hit by a train, they are partly responsible. They drove their car onto the tracks. Caroline gets that. But there are other factors at play.

[C]

We always try to tell jurors that for whatever reason, this person didn't see or hear this train. But compare what this person knew, particularly if it's a crossing that this person had never gone across before, compare what the person knew in those split seconds versus what the railroad knew for years. And so when we're asking for certain dollar amounts from the jury, we always assign a portion of fault to our driver because at the end of the day, somebody did foul the tracks and get hit by a train.

[A]

That might be 10%, that might be 30%. It depends entirely on the case. And not every case wins. Sometimes a jury finds the driver 100% at fault. But while thinking about the drivers that get hit, I find myself thinking about the people driving the trains. Engineers is a technical term. They're the ones looking down the tracks, observing what's going on. They're meant to stop the train of something like a car gets in the way. And Caroline says, yes, the engineers definitely come into the equation when collisions happen.

[C]

Sometimes it's because they didn't blow the horn in the right pattern. Sometimes they didn't blow it soon enough. Also, they don't throw it into emergency until the very last second, because when they dump the brakes like that, all this sand comes out to try to create friction so that it doesn't just continue to careen down the track. And it takes a long time to get the pneumatic brakes gas back up with the air to get going again and keep moving freight. So it's all about keeping that freight moving. Even if they see a car coming and could even throttle down a little bit, they just keep barreling forward and cross their fingers that the motor sees them.

[A]

She says there are plenty of examples where if an engineer had swung into action a little bit earlier, crashes could have been prevented entirely.

[C]

My cases had that 3D expert model out, what would have happened if the engineer would have throttled down even by like one to three miles an hour when they saw the vehicle? The collision would have been avoided.

[A]

She says one of the most horrifying aspects of her job is watching the footage taken from the train's point of view, seeing what the engineer is seeing.

[C]

You see on that locomotive video the point at which the vehicle is visible. And that means that if it's visible to the locomotive camera, it's visible to the engineer, too. You know it's going to happen, but every single time you watch it, when it actually does collide, it is still just shocking. And because the camera sits very high, you don't ever see any of the gore or the carnage. You see car parts flying and stuff like that, but you never see any of the worst of it.

[A]

So at the end of the day, it can be the engineer's fault, but it's not that simple. Train drivers are facing pressure to deliver their freight on time. They're working in a system stacked against them, just like the person in the car doesn't want to get hit. I don't imagine the train driver particularly wants to hit a car or a person either.

[C]

It has become evident to me over the years that the same tack that the railroads take in front of a jury is the tack that they take when they train their engineers. And it's blame the driver, blame the driver. They don't even train their engineers that if they're going through a crossing on their route and they see that one of those cross bucks has fallen over to call in and report it, they're not even charged with anything like that. But the people that are on those tracks and traveling through those crossings all the time are the ones that should be the eyes and ears of the railroad. But they're not trained to be that because the railroad doesn't care. They actually all combine their resources together to run this program called Operation Lifesaver. And that's where all the stop, look and listen stuff comes from. And so they go in and try to heavily indoctrinate schools and stuff in the community for the stop, look and listen. But it's all under the presumption that the railroad's never at fault and it's always the driver. So we know six to 18 months ahead of time when we're going to go to trial. And so a shady thing that one of them has done is a month before our trial in a very small community, they ran an Operation Lifesaver event so that the jury pool would be tainted with Stop, look and listen. It's always the driver's fault.

[A]

Incredible, incredible timing.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

So cynical, isn't it? It's so, so cynical.

[D]

It is.

[C]

It's really evil and so cynical.

[A]

Thinking of AI and cameras and self driving cars and everything else we have feels like it shouldn't be on the driver. Just to this guy looking ahead on the tracks to like see if there's a car there or not. Is there any tech coming in to look ahead? Oh, car approaching tracks too fast, must stop. Is there anything like that that's coming in?

[C]

Oh, it's been in. There has been a thing called positive train control for a very long time. And the railroads could retrofit their engines with it. And it would almost be like if you have a very modern car, it'll pump the brakes for you if it senses that you're too close. That technology has been around for locomotive train engines for a very long time and they just won't spend the money to retrofit them with it. It's just absolutely absurd that they wouldn't avail themselves of Something that could save the Motor Republic, but also save their engineers the trauma of knowing that they maimed or killed someone. When those engineers get on the witness stand at trial, they are traumatized. Some of them even break down and cry. And it is no picnic for them either.

[A]

Chapter 3 Will this ever stop? Caroline says that when she thinks about it, she's been dealing with trains for a lot longer than the last 10 years.

[C]

I had a near miss with a train when I was in high school. I was leaving from a breakfast place and my boyfriend was behind me in the car and I had the radio crank. I always listened to my music so loud and I didn't see it or hear it, and he said that it missed me by seconds.

[A]

Looking at the stats of trains hitting cars, this has been happening for a long time. It's not trending down either. Last year, 1,870 collisions, 247 dead. The year before that, 264 dead. 2023, 244 dead, 2022, 276 dead. That all starts to add up. Do you see any trends in this getting better? Like, are there less people being killed and maimed than they used to be when you started?

[C]

No. No difference. The worst part about it is that these crossings that don't have the lights and gates are typically ones that are in rural areas and many times economically depressed areas. And the railroads just do not care about the motoring public. They are for moving freight and making money. We represented a man who got hit. And during the course of that litigation, our expert told the railroad, somebody is going to die at this intersection. There will be more accidents at this intersection. And by God, there was.

[A]

Caroline says the root cause of so much of this is just money. That Goliath we talked about at the start of all this, the six companies that rule the majority of America's railways,

[C]

those six Class 1 railroads could pool their resources together and it wouldn't even cost a billion dollars to do. They could put lights and gates at every crossing in this country so these accidents wouldn't happen anymore, or at least less frequently.

[A]

And even with that scenario in mind, she wonders if the greed would still mean more collisions and more deaths.

[C]

Anyway, I had a case where this town had lights and gates all throughout the town because every single crossing where it met the road was blocked by buildings and stuff. And so they had to have those arms because people had no chance to see it. But. But the railroad turned off all the signals in town, didn't put a flagman out to warn motorists sent a piece of maintenance equipment down the track and it plowed into our client and gave her daughter a traumatic brain injury. So you can't even trust lighted and gated ones either. I stop at every single railroad crossing that I come to, even if it pisses people off behind me, because I don't trust those lights and gates either.

[A]

I do some big drives around America. I've definitely driven over railway tracks that didn't have an arm, now that I think about it. Do you have any advice for people in how they approach train tracks in general?

[C]

Well, it's funny, because every time we have a pool of jurors and we're doing our jury selection process, one of the questions we ask them is, do you stop at every railroad crossing? And of course, all of them lie and try to act like they're such responsible citizens. Oh, yes, absolutely. I stop at every railroad crossing. Well, no motorist is under any sort of legal obligation to stop at every crossing unless the train is visible or audible at 1500ft. The only thing that absolutely has to stop every time is hazardous materials and school buses. So my advice to anybody would be, unless it's on a highway, and you doing this would cause a rear end chain reaction collision, either stop or slow down way, way, way down, so that you can absolutely see far down both sides of the track, both directions, because you don't have any idea what that crossing is supposed to be like and what your sight lines are supposed to be and whether or not that crossing is maintained properly or if you're on a collision course with a train.

[A]

Chapter Four Should Rob and David take a train? While Caroline's been talking, I've been wondering about me and Rob's idea of taking a big train ride across the United States of America. Somehow that idea's kind of soured. But also, this whole time, Caroline's been talking about freight trains. Rob and I wouldn't take a freight train. We're not train hopping. We'd go on a train for passengers. An Amtrak. Surely an Amtrak's okay. Then I remembered the story Caroline told

[C]

earlier, and my boss said, look at this picture and point to me where the train is.

[A]

She'd been talking about Amtrak, the case

[C]

that I told you about that was before my time, where the tiniest sliver of silver was showing that was an Amtrak train. But Amtrak is a governmental entity, and they operate on tracks owned by the Big Six. And the Big Six are the ones that are responsible for the maintenance of the crossings and the tracks and all of it. The Warning devices, whether they're lights and gates or just crossbows.

[A]

Would you ever take a train in America, like a sightseeing train in Amtrak? Would you ever be able to get on one?

[C]

No, absolutely not. It wouldn't matter where it was. Because no matter which of the big six own those tracks, I can guarantee you there's some bullshit going on. I would never. When I first started this trained stuff, I was the tender age of 36. And I'm really finding that the toll that these cases take on me takes a lot more out of me as I age in terms of stress levels and grief fatigue and empathy fatigue and that kind of thing. But when we are able to prevail, it's the best feeling in the world.

[A]

Caroline reckons there's a twofold way the railroads could prevent so so many deaths and injuries. One, by putting lights and gates at every crossing. And two, by retrofitting every locomotive with positive train control. That AI stuff we talked about earlier, the technology that makes your fancy car break when you're being a shitty and attentive driver. But again, it all comes down to money. During our last conversation, Caroline told me she heard someone once make the point that if a person killed as many people as the railroad companies do, that'd be the most horrific mass murderer America has ever seen. But because they're a corporation with a mighty lobby in Washington, they continue to get away with it. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Bombus now. Still people keep asking me, what is my 2026 resolution? And I say, look, that's private. But I also say, actually my usual goal, I just want to be more comfy. And that is where Bombus comes in. They're bringing serious comfort to all my everyday go tos.

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[A]

Yeah, I think it's fair to say after that, I feel less inclined to watch sort of videos that pop off my feet of people missing or being hit by. You know, it's like that whole area just is so bleak and awful and dark. And she spoke to it so directly as well.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And she's been doing this for 10 years.

[D]

Ish.

[A]

And that's. Her whole life is dealing with this type of stuff.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

It's insane.

[D]

Yes. It's also crazy that that many unsuspecting people have been killed and. And there's just nothing being done.

[A]

No. I mean, the lack of care from the big Six jumped out at me a lot. This idea that if they all pulled their resources, they could essentially fix the problem or at least decrease that, what, 250 odd people a year that get kills.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'd never really thought about, like, when I'm driving around, I've driven over train tracks. I just kind of trust that I'll see it or hear it. And I've never really thought about, oh, is the vegetation blocking my line of sight? Also forget how fast they're moving. And that if I, I sort of assume if I see a train I'll have enough time to stop. But no, like if you're seeing it at the wrong angle and there are trees in the way, that's gonna get to you before my slow brain has time to react.

[D]

Yeah. Have you ever heard stop, look and listen?

[A]

I've never heard this whole campaign thing.

[D]

Yeah, it came back to me very viscerally.

[A]

Oh, right, yes.

[D]

That's definitely like a school thing that you're.

[A]

Yeah, right. And obviously it's a great thing to be taught. But there was that one particular example she gave of them arguing before getting in and making sure that program was in place to spoil a jury pool. So the idea is that, no, it is on you to stop, look and listen. That's your responsibility.

[D]

I still don't see that as then full responsibility driver. Like, no, it's. It's like be careful and watch out. But also if there's a train barreling at you, like, there's only so much you can do.

[A]

And it's that thing as well where, you know, if you buy a modern car today, the whole thing, I mean, some car ads even, I feel like, make this point that when you're in your car, all the noises in the outside world is going to be muted so you can listen to your flightless bird episode or music or whatever. And so audio is an issue. And then if line of sight is an issue as well with overgrown, you know, trees and bushes.

[D]

And that's the other crazy part of that of just like vegetation is literally taking over to where you can't see.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

The tracks. Until it's too late.

[A]

Completely.

[D]

And nothing's being done about that.

[A]

Also did not like the fact that, that these six major corporations are sort of essentially running things. The feds aren't kind of monitoring that particularly closely. And that's the tracks that Amtrak is using. Which actually I jotted this down in my notes. I saw a tweet about Amtrak. Someone just tweeted, thank you for choosing Amtrak. End quotes. No problem. There are no Other trains. And that's obviously Amtrak's like, logo. Right? Like, that's the whole slogan. It's like. But that's it. In this country, Amtrak is basically your option. Yeah, yeah. Which is what we were talking about going on. Which just seems less, you know, less appealing to me now.

[D]

Well, I mean, this reminds me of my friend that took a cross country trip over the summer from New York to the west coast. And yeah, they're. They got delayed like two days because someone got hit by a train.

[A]

Yeah, Hell.

[D]

And he learned on that trip, like, oh, yeah, that happens all the time.

[A]

Yeah. I have a friend in New Zealand who's a paramedic and dealing with people. Cause that's. I mean, this whole episode has been about the idea of cars versus trains, but you add pedestrians into the mix for a variety of reasons. And that's a whole other thing. I mean, we just had a guest on the show that we've recorded who just casually I said, we've got a train episode coming up. And brought up the example of a kid who got hit because they were listening to their headphones.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, there's people as well. And then there's people. I mean, there's just so many cases of this. It's awful.

[D]

It's just this weird thing too. Like trains are so such a part of like early America and the like, expansion west. And it seems like such an archaic piece of transportation that you don't even really think about it too much if you're not an everyday train user completely. And you're just kind of assuming that like the technology is there, the systems are in place, the city and the state and government, they're looking after it.

[A]

They're doing everything they need to to keep everything completely safe, which, it sounds like it's modernizing.

[D]

Maybe not the case.

[A]

Well, yeah. And even when she was talking about that system that trains could be retrofitted with, that help a train see not just down to an engineer to see what's happening up ahead, but there's a system in place that could automate some of that stuff. And they're just not backlogging that and fitting it in, which seems insane to me, but you're right, it is. It's like I, until we did the train hopping episode, I hadn't really thought about trains at all. But that's how a lot of our shit is getting around. It's not all being flown by plane. A lot of it's just loaded up and sent on these really old. I feel like growing Up. I was watching westerns and it was

[D]

like trains and there's the whole level of like, like slave labor to build the trains. Which maybe as well. This brings us to our History teacher episode we want to do. At some point, maybe we'll do something on the western expansion of the railroad.

[A]

Something that I know zero on. Yeah, because that's a whole other thing.

[D]

You didn't watch Hell on Wheels?

[A]

No, I didn't. What is that? Is it like a drama about the

[D]

train with Common and Anson Mount? I enjoyed it. It's like a historical movie, historical TV show about. About building the railroads.

[A]

If you're listening to this and you have any thoughts, maybe you. I'm curious if anyone listening has either sort of narrowly escaped being hit by a train or sort of been around anything that's happened. I'd be curious to hear from you. Flightless bird. Chatmail.com. if you're one of the big six train companies and you think this episode has wronged you, feel free to write in. I'm curious on your take on this.

[D]

Did you watch Train Dreams?

[A]

I did watch Train Dreams. I liked it. I'm a Joel. Joel Egerton.

[C]

Right?

[D]

Yeah. Wasn't heavy train.

[A]

It was very. Yeah, very train. Was it training?

[D]

I mean he. On the rail, like he worked on trains. But it wasn't a big part of the movie.

[A]

True. Yeah. It was mainly just him cutting down a lot of trees.

[D]

I enjoyed that movie. I mean that was a. It was a pretty sad movie, but

[A]

it was incredibly sad. I could watch Joel Edgerton in anything. I think he's just aging like a fine wine. Just like such a good actor.

[D]

You probably hated though, Animal Kingdom because it's your Australian. Australian rivals. Right.

[A]

Animal Kingdom I adored.

[D]

I loved. Yeah.

[A]

Australia does good films. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah, that. Very great. And they made a us. Did you. Have you watched the US TV show?

[A]

I haven't done that.

[D]

Instead of the Australian like Mafia, they move them to like Long beach and they're like surfers.

[A]

Really?

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Does it work? Is it entertaining or is it just sort of dumb?

[D]

I've. I've watched a good amount of it. It's fun. It's like Sons of Anarchy vibes.

[A]

I can completely picture what that would be.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Plus I imagine to draw it out for seasons you have to have like a million dumb little dramas going on and romantic sort of twists and turns

[D]

where like one brother's the good guy in one and then by three seasons later he's the villain.

[A]

And cuz it's still got like the really hard, like, matriarchal, kind of like mum in there doing her thing.

[D]

They end up doing like a flashback to how she got that way.

[A]

Right.

[D]

And that character is played by Vincent d' Onofrio's daughter, which.

[A]

Oh, cool.

[D]

Vincent d' Onofrio's also the man. Yeah.

[A]

I mainly admire Vincent for a tweet he did once about how allegedly, pigs cannot look up.

[D]

He wrote a children's book about that, which I have for the kids.

[A]

Oh, my God. Essentially, it's right. They can't look up. So the best thing you can do for a pig, you lift it. Because they can't look up to the heavens. Lift a pig up, let it see the sky.

[D]

Yep.

[A]

So good. John Oliver has it. I haven't watched it, but I can feel people already typing the emails. He's also done an episode on the big six train companies that kind of run things in America. And he looks at that. I believe he talks to someone that was hit by a train in a car and is involved in litigation. And just how awful that process was.

[D]

Yeah. John Oliver does a much better job of making this show than we do.

[A]

He really does.

[D]

But he's got a team of writers.

[A]

Does. No, John. When I'm putting together an episode for the show with you and I see that John Oliver's done it, I'm like, oh, God, yes.

[D]

But there were also times where John Oliver will do one after or we'll reference something that we've done. And I'm like, oh, cool, we did something.

[A]

That something is like, traveled.

[D]

No, I don't think it's traveled. I don't think it got to John Oliver that we did was more that, like, oh, this was relevant and this was worthy. Yeah, we got one right by doing this topic.

[A]

Yeah. Him and his team are insane. What they do. It's. I think he's got the perfect fusion of entertainment and advocacy and journalism all in the one. I feel like some of those late night shows don't quite get the balance right. He's just. I mean, it's amazing what he does, that guy. Jesus.

[D]

Well, and just how so credible and well researched and like that. It feels like every corner has kind

[A]

of been, oh, looked at a million times. And yeah, there is something to be said. I think what we've forgotten about with, like, things like newsrooms, there are certain stories that can't be told by an individual or a small team. Like, you need this massive team.

[D]

Yeah. To spend hours and hours painstaking.

[A]

And the stuff that he services well

[D]

and they're all like, there's like brilliant comedy writers within that that find, like little nuggets and we're like, we'll do this and do it justice. But also we found this really absurd thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

That we need to point out also

[A]

covers, weirdly, quite a lot of New Zealand content. Like, he's kind of zoned it on New Zealand at times. He got. He got really Russell. Deep into a. Russell Australian.

[D]

I know.

[A]

Deeper into a deal, you feel my heckles go up. Actually, I. I kind of have a soft spot for Russell Crowe. I quite like the guy. We have a Bird of the Air competition in New Zealand where our native birds are all backed by a different celebrity or group to try and win Bird of the Air. It's like voter based and God, I'm going to step in it now because I can't remember what bird he backed, but he basically, like got behind a bird that wasn't getting votes and just put it all over the show. Like, he made a giant puppet of the bird and brought it on and that bird, strangely enough, won the competition. He's amazing.

[C]

I don't know how.

[A]

Okay, feedback, feedback. Now, Rob, I'm going to be honest with you. I haven't prepared for the feedback on this.

[D]

So you're just going to open up that inbox?

[A]

No. So close your eyes a little behind the scenes. I'm going away for a few days next week to. To record some episodes for this podcast.

[D]

Do we want to reveal that It's.

[A]

We can reveal.

[D]

Let's not reveal this. You're in a mysterious place.

[A]

I'm going to a mysterious place. I feel it's gonna get the anticipation up too high. You know, people think I'm going to. I don't know.

[D]

I mean, it's a pretty high bar of like obscure American.

[A]

Okay, let's keep this in, but bleep out when we say it.

[D]

Great.

[A]

And so I don't have the. We don't have the feedback for the episode that just aired.

[D]

Right, right.

[A]

So I'm just gonna go and pull out because the other interesting thing with the feedback is people surprisingly aren't listening week to week. Some people are like three months behind. And so we get feed older shows. So I'm just going to open a few random ones. Riley writes in with the subject line, bourbon. I'm 100% here for David and Rob visiting a dude ranch for an episode. I've not been to one, but you can learn how to do farm chores as part of the guest experience. My next recommendation Bourbon. Bourbon can only come from a certain part of Kentucky. Otherwise it's considered whiskey or another type of brown liqueur. I love that idea.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, a lot. Hadn't even thought about bourbon before. A lot of people writing in about dude ranch. Very popular part of the Nickelodeon universe.

[D]

Hey, dude. You mean?

[A]

I don't follow.

[D]

Hey dude was the name of the show. They were on a dude ranch.

[A]

Oh, they're okay. I understand.

[D]

Dude ranch was a name of a Blink 182 album.

[A]

Was it? Hey dude was a popular Nickelodeon franchise. Still a lot of Hooters staff writing in. Emily writes in. Then I can talk to you about being a cowgirl. Apparently, the whole dude ranch thing has kicked off a lot of feedback. I own a horse ranch just out of Idaho and have a lifetime of stories about ranch work, backcountry riding, wild horse adoption and western riding. I'm also particularly passionate about speaking out against the conservative stereotypes that are associated with cowboying. I'm into this cowgirl. Holy shit, Emily. I will be in touch. This is great.

[D]

We both dabbled a little bit in Yellowstone early on, right?

[A]

Yes. I watched season one of Yellowstone drama. It ended up being too much Yellowstone to give up. Yeah.

[D]

A little too much soap opera.

[A]

And I feel like a couple of spinoffs.

[D]

A lot of spinoffs.

[A]

Oh, my God. You know that spawned a franchise. Yeah.

[D]

But it did shine a different light on ranching that I was aware of. So when she said that she owns a dude ranch and.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

That she owns a ranch and can do that, I just imagined sort of

[A]

a Yellowstone drama playing out. So much drama in Yellowstone.

[D]

So much drama.

[A]

Remember that first episode? Like, pilots are always amazing to watch because they haven't quite got it right. But I remember there was like. I think like a meth lab blew up. There were like. Like episode one of Yellowstone. A lot of shit went down in that. Danny Rodin with the subject jawbreakers. And of course, this is in regards to my candy episode. Candy episode. Yeah. Clearly. I want to tell you a little fun jawbreaking story. When I was in college, my mum found out she had sleep apnea. Was finally diagnosed when she worried that she was falling asleep during her drive to work. We lived 10 minutes from her office. Needless to say, safety was a concern. Did lots of tests. We found out her tongue was blocking her airway and she could be healed if they just made more room in her mouth for her tongue to lay flat. The solution was jaw surgery where they'd have to break her jaws to move them forward. Here's the really fun part, though. I'm just going to say, when I cold read an email like this, usually when someone says, here's the fun part, it's either very fun or deeply long and boring. And I don't know which way this is going to go. We're going to find out together. Here's the fun part, though. My sister was in high school and her bite was misaligned, which would also cause potential breathing problems down the road. Insurance would cover surgery for her, so she said, why not? And my mum and sister both had their jaws broken. This is great. This is a really fun aspect. They both needed braces to get things ready for surgery and would match the color of their rubber bands. So cute.

[C]

Is it.

[D]

Imagine the jaw breaking to be very. Just violent and not precise. I would hope, though, if they're breaking your jaw, they've got a way to do it.

[A]

It's actually something I hadn't thought about. I sort of picture them like knocking me out in surgery and then just like just punching me repetitively.

[D]

That's what I'm imagining, you know. But of course it would be sledgehammer or something to your hammer to your mouth.

[A]

No, but it would be some very precise bone cutting or maybe there's a laser involved. I don't know.

[D]

Cutting, though, because. But are they. Yeah, I guess they got, I don't know, cheek. You got. You got scars then.

[A]

Jesus.

[D]

They can't. I mean, how does it work?

[A]

We still get a lot of feedback. We still haven't figured it out. Okay, Danny goes on.

[D]

Lasers. I don't think it's lasers. I can confidently.

[A]

When they moved my mom's jaw forward, she essentially lost her chin. So they shaved a piece of the bone and stuck it perpendicular to her bottom jaw to make her a new chin. Now she has the hardest chin of anyone I know. Everything I read about this makes me deeply glad I'm not having my jaw broken after the surgery. Their mouths are wired. She shut. So they're living off milkshakes and mushy foods. I imagine my dad enjoy the quiet. Classic misogynistic, like, gag. Hey, dad being there, finally. Mom and daughter. Mom and daughter can't talk. That's not what Danny was getting to. But it's just a very funny scene. I imagine my dad enjoy the quiet, but it was quite a scene. And when a family friend came to the house, she cried when she saw my mom's bruised, wired face. When I eventually got a break from college to come home and visit, they no longer had their mouths wired shut but were almost unrecognizable. So I don't mean to laugh. It was as though my mum and sister had been replaced with super skinny chipmunk faced people. They both healed wonderfully and now look as beautiful as ever. My mum doesn't fall asleep randomly anymore and we joke that my sister has a $10,000 smile because she does. Thank you Danny. That was a roller coaster. Finally, Mona Lin wrote. Roetson Wrightson Dear David, I'm currently playing catch up on Episodes today, driving from Auckland to Taronga. This is in my home in New Zealand. I just hit play on the Milky Bar Kid episode and just as your voice started the intro, I realized I was driving into Bethlehem, which is where I went to high school.

[D]

So you were not born.

[A]

Not born there, no, went to high school there. Then you told the story of the procedure on your gums and my jaw dropped because I did that exact procedure less than two weeks ago.

[D]

Well, hopefully her jaw didn't drop too quickly, likely to reopen any wounds. And that gums.

[A]

It's a real stretch, but it's good.

[D]

Well, it was a stretch.

[A]

Oh, don't. Oh my God.

[D]

Of the gums.

[A]

One thing I wanted to mention when you were talking about pumpkins, change of tack to another episode. Yes, there is something called pumpkin in New Zealand that people eat a lot of. We call it squash, but it's not the orange variety that they have in North America. So when Rob says, do you have pumpkins in New Zealand? The answer is no, not the big orange ones you have. We do have something called pumpkins, but they're different species of winter squashes with different textures, colors and consistencies. Oh yes, I would follow that up. Mona Lynn we definitely have pumpkins in New Zealand. We just. We're not obsessed with pumpkins. That's what I'm saying. I didn't know about the Milky Barkhead. I found the 10 minute string of UK ads from the 60s and 70s. Smiled my way through them after listening to the episode. The New Zealand one was the cutest. Just have a great weekend. And with that we come to an end of another packed episode of Flightless Bird. If you have feedback, specifically in regards to our upcoming live shows, if you have any stuffed taxidermy or any other amazing items that would look good to dress the stage, get in touch with us. Flightless birdchatmail.com and if you have any stories about being in or near or around any kind of train drama involving trains and cars and lucky escapes and Anything else? Maybe you've been embroiled in litigation with a train company. I'd love to hear from you. Flightlessbreadchatmail.com or maybe you smashed pennies on the railroad track. Yes, maybe you did. Rob's favorite pastime. Yeah. Really? Any train stories? I'm kind of fascinated by now I think about it, I feel like it'll open up a whole new world.

[D]

Yeah. It'll take us down another track somewhere.

[A]

Rob, you. Sometimes you need to be fired from the show somehow, which I can't do because I don't have the power. And without you, I can't make the show. But when you pull out the number of puns and annoying things that you

[C]

do,

[D]

come see us do that in Salt Lake City, March 29, Austin, April 2, Dallas, April 4. We've got cool music. Each of these shows. It's going to be fun.

[A]

We have ticket links in the show notes and also over in the links on our Instagram page, you can join our patreon patreon.com and also patreon.com Flightless bird. Oh, yes. Don't patreon.com It'll be hard to find us. Patreon.com it's probably a search, but there'll be a search. You can Google it as well.

[D]

Yeah, but direct link is direct Link. Flightless Bird. Patreon.com Flightless Bird.

[A]

We're also on YouTube. You might be listening to us now. If you want to watch and see the studio in, you can get video on Spotify and video on YouTube. That's there. I keep forgetting to remind people about that.

[D]

You can see David's healed gums.

[A]

You can see my beautiful gums. I'm pulling my lip right down now. You can see how good they are.

[D]

Totally blocked by the mic.

[A]

You can see my wonky jaw because I'm not getting my jaw broken to fix it. And finally, it really helps us if you share the episodes and if you like and subscribe and give us a rating on Apple or Spotify, that just organically sort of throws us into the algorithm. And other people might find the show. If other people find the show, it means more people listen to the show. It means we can spread our wings even further. That was a flight.

[D]

To not fly.

[C]

To not.

[A]

Doesn't quite work, does it? Yeah, okay. Ignore that one. I'll leave the puns to Rob. See you next week. The lights are dimmed, which means we're recording after dark. I'm wearing a Dinosaurs TV show T shirt.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

I loved Dinosaurs.

[A]

I'm trying to like, figure out how to talk about the show because I've been watching YouTube clips. It's just really weird and unsettling and odd.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I think I played it for Calvin and he was like, what? What is this?

[A]

It just feels something's a bit off. The one thing I want to say about that show that blows my mind thinking about it is the finale of that show was a meteor coming to hit earth. And so essentially, like, all these characters you fall in love with are gonna die. I was talking with a friend in New Zealand. Oh, Hayden, actually. Hayden and his wife Rach. They recently showed their two kids. I'm gonna mess up their ages. They're little kids. K pop demon hunters. They got terrified about an hour in of like, the demons were too much, like really scary. The things etched into my brain, like, some of those things are etched in because they were scary and unsettling with your kids. You obviously don't want to scare your kids, but what's the barrier of, like, let them have some emotions and like, have a crazy experience and they're terrified with turning it off.

[D]

The other day I was watching Fallout in the basement.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[D]

They went down there for some reason, tried to turn something on TV and Fallout was started playing.

[A]

Right.

[D]

They both ran upstairs screaming.

[A]

Oh.

[D]

Just bolted, left the TV on, left Fallout playing and would not go back down there.

[A]

How funny. It's so funny. Like what each kid finds scary as well. Right. Cuz it's wildly different.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Sam.