Wisconsin: Supper Clubs

Summary

Flightless Bird: Wisconsin Supper Clubs

Host: David Farrier
Guests/Cohosts: Rob, Hayden Donnell, various supper club locals
Date: May 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, David Farrier explores the unique, nostalgic institution of "supper clubs" in Wisconsin—a tradition born out of the Midwest and tied to community, food, slow dining, and local hospitality. Along with cohost Rob and Kiwi friend Hayden Donnell (who is both entertained and perplexed by American traditions), David offers firsthand experiences at two notable Madison supper clubs, interviews with locals and experts, and plenty of fish fry, creamy cocktails, and Midwest warmth.

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Table of Contents

• Introduction and Cultural Confusion (00:05–14:59)
• What Actually Is a Supper Club? (12:00–15:56)
• David’s Supper Club Adventures (15:59–26:08)
• Supper Clubs: Community, Food, and Drinks (19:20–24:09)
• Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments (Various)
• Midwestern Hospitality and Random Encounters (24:09–26:08)
• Follow-Up Discussion and Reflections (30:11–35:02)
• Supper Clubs vs. Chain Restaurants; LA Culture Clash (30:31–33:19)
• Creamy Cocktails: The Grasshopper & Old Fashioneds (33:31–39:32)
• Listener Mail and Wisconsin Dive Bars (39:42–41:31)
• Closing Thoughts and Feedback (41:33–End)

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Introduction & Cultural Confusion (00:05–14:59)

• The episode opens with friendly Kiwi banter between David and Hayden Donnell, with Hayden confessing he has no idea what a "supper club" is, imagining gentlemen in top hats and nightcaps.
• Hayden (00:34): “Honestly, I thought that all aspects of America would travel to me, but for some reason, not a supper club.”
• David explains that neither he nor Rob were familiar with supper clubs before visiting Wisconsin, remarking that such institutions don’t exist in Los Angeles.
• Discussion of the ongoing "Wisconsin series" on the podcast, which began with cheese and has informally grown to cover more local color, like detention stories and puns about “Wisconsinite.”
• Both hosts briefly detour into differences in vacation culture, specifically the uniquely American phenomenon of timeshares and the water park mecca “the Dells.”

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What Actually Is a Supper Club? (12:00–15:56)

• David and Rob piece together their understanding of supper clubs, correcting misperceptions.
• David outlines key features:
  • They are restaurants, not clubs with memberships or special attire.
  • The environment is cozy, wood-paneled, dimly lit, and encourages long, slow meals with friends or family.
  • The menu is hearty and generous, with large steaks, plenty of fish, and classic American dishes. Affordability and approachability are emphasized.
• David (12:07): “A supper club is essentially a restaurant… Everything’s sort of wooden and brown and the lighting’s a bit dim. It’s very settle in to your chair, strap in—because you’re not leaving for eight hours.”

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David’s Supper Club Adventures (15:59–26:08)

Tornado Steakhouse (16:43–18:26)

• David visits the Tornado Steakhouse in Madison: meets Jaz, a Kiwi server who calls the staff her "family," and Henry Doan, the longtime owner/chef.
  • Jaz (16:25): “This is my 10th year. This is like a family and we love the clientele here, and the food is amazing.”
• Henry explains the history and atmosphere:
  • The location’s been a supper club since the ’50s.
  • The menu and vibe haven’t changed in decades: white linens, wood walls, old-school cocktails, “big steaks. Everything comes with a salad or a soup and a side dish.”

The Harvey House (18:44–24:09)

• David visits “the fanciest supper club in town,” Harvey House.
• Craig Trost from the Wisconsin Department of Tourism gives roots and rituals:
  • Supper clubs began after Prohibition to encourage community gathering.
  • “This very slow dining experience in Wisconsin. I was raised in a supper club. I remember sitting there with my parents for a three hour dinner.” (Craig, 19:20)
• Shaina Pappich, Harvey House’s creative director/co-owner, reaffirms the sense of nostalgia, family, and flexible definition of “club.”
  • Shaina (21:36): “It’s just a restaurant. … There’s like a sense of nostalgia. They’re usually family owned and run and usually some classic Midwestern staples…”
• David learns about key traditions:
  • Friday Fish Fry (walleye, cod, perch, etc., with beer batter, coleslaw, beans/fries)
  • Saturday Prime Rib / Sunday Broasted Chicken
  • Brandy Old Fashioneds (with muddled fruit and a sweeter profile than elsewhere)
  • After-dinner ice cream cocktails like the Grasshopper

Timestamps

• Tornado Steakhouse: 15:59–18:44
• Harvey House: 18:44–24:09

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Supper Clubs: Community, Food, and Drinks

Food Rituals & Drinks

• Fish is central: “They really love their fish here. Fish, fish, fish.” (David, 22:26)
• Fish fry origins are tied to Catholic Lenten customs and a local fishing economy. (20:41–21:08)
• Drinking: Old Fashioneds made with brandy (not bourbon), sometimes topped with 7 Up or “Squirt” for a sweeter version.
  • Craig (22:51): “Wisconsin Old Fashioned is served with muddled fruit… we use brandy instead of bourbon. … There’s ice cream drinks after dinner.”
• Creamy cocktails: The “Grasshopper” (creamy, green, sweet, alcoholic)—ubiquitous at Wisconsin supper clubs.

Social Fabric & Belonging

• Supper clubs serve as “third spaces” (not home, not work), important in small towns, but also sites of special occasions and community bonds.
  • Shaina (23:38): “Some supper clubs are really the only sit-down restaurant in some communities. … So that’s your third space.”
• Customers form relationships—with each other, with staff, across generations.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On what makes a supper club:
  • “You are definitely not an idiot for not knowing what a supper club is, because I don’t think anyone really knows what a supper club is. It’s a pretty subjective thing, I think.” — Shaina (21:36)
• On Wisconsin hospitality:
  • “Outsiders will always be greeted with open arms by the locals. … That woman I met at the supper club… next night, she was amazing, and she booked us in at this amazing chicken place… went to college basketball game.” — David (41:31)
• Ice cream and booze:
  • “People in Wisconsin can take anything that’s bad for you and make it worse for you. They’ll take a burger and put butter on there, or take ice cream and put booze in there. It’s a beautiful place.” — John Dye (quoted by David, 37:29)
• On the experience as a solo diner:
  • “It’s just very funny… at a table that has a chair on the other side and there’s no one there.” — David (32:05)
• Difference from chain restaurants:
  • “The supper club feels like the antithesis to chain restaurants in small towns. Locally owned, slower pacing of life.” — Rob (30:39)

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Midwestern Hospitality and Random Encounters (24:09–26:08)

• David’s experience speaking to fellow diners who turn out to be professors and researchers, fostering conversation, and learning about local history and the intellectual firepower of Madison.
• David is invited out by a local woman and her family for more food and a college basketball game—epitomizing the sense of welcome.

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Supper Clubs vs. Chain Restaurants; LA Culture Clash (30:11–33:19)

• Rob reflects that supper clubs can’t exist in LA-like environments due to differences in pace and mindset.
  • David: “People are too rushed… They don’t have the personality to slow down and chill the hell out.”

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Creamy Cocktails: The Grasshopper & Old Fashioneds (33:31–39:32)

• The Grasshopper is explained by David as “creamy, sweet, deliciousness. God, it was good and it’s fine, it’s normal… and I wasn’t being mocked for having a creamy cocktail.” (34:38)
• Discussion of Wisconsin’s boozy, heavy, fun approach to food and drink—celebrating indulgence.
• Story behind brandy in the Old Fashioned: tied to immigrants spiking wine to preserve it; brandy remains popular in the local cocktail.

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Listener Mail and Wisconsin Dive Bars (39:42–41:31)

• Email from a listener named Coltrane describes living in Milwaukee with eight dive bars within a mile, emphasizing Wisconsin’s unique bar culture—often housed in old homes, always welcoming to outsiders.

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Closing Thoughts and Feedback (41:33–End)

• David expresses the essence of the Wisconsin supper club experience: warmth, community, and hospitality that extends to strangers.
• Hosts touch on various tangents (puzzles, cilantro aversion genetics, crabs in shopping malls), but always draw back to the themes of community, food, and making the best of the American Midwest.
• David and Rob jokingly clarify they’re not ending the podcast and express gratitude for their audience and Wisconsin’s communal spirit.

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Key Takeaways

• **A supper club is not a club—**it's a restaurant deeply embedded in community, nostalgia, and slow, convivial dining.
• Hospitality is everything: Strangers become friends, and regulars become family.
• Food and drink traditions anchor the culture: Friday fish fry, big steaks, and brandy old fashioneds—plus creamy, boozy ice cream cocktails like the Grasshopper.
• The sense of belonging runs deep: Whether you’re dining solo or with family, you’re never really alone in a Wisconsin supper club.

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Memorable Timestamps

• What is a supper club? (12:07, 17:53, 21:36)
• Supper club experience at Tornado Steakhouse (16:43–18:44)
• Harvey House, nostalgia, and classic dishes (18:44–22:26)
• Friday fish fry origins explained (20:41–21:08)
• Role of creamy cocktails / Grasshopper (33:40–34:38)
• Hospitality and being welcomed by locals (41:31)

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Notable Quotes

• “People in Wisconsin can take anything that's bad for you and make it worse for you.” — John Dye (37:29)
• “You are definitely not an idiot for not knowing what a supper club is...” — Shaina Pappich (21:36)
• “I felt a bit naughty when I was eating alone.” — David (35:28)
• “Outsiders will always be greeted with open arms by the locals.” — Listener Coltrane (39:51)
• “Fish fry is something I can get on board with as it kind of sounds like the fish and chips we have back home in New Zealand.” — David (20:23)

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Episode Tone

Warm, humorous, gently meandering, and deeply curious—full of appreciation for eccentric Midwestern traditions and the kindness of strangers.

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For anyone new to American supper clubs, this episode perfectly encapsulates the mix of kitsch, comfort, and connection that makes these dining institutions an enduring part of Midwest culture.

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For feedback or your own supper club stories, write to [e-mail].

Transcript

[A]

And hi, Hayden, My beautiful Snorlax. How are you?

[B]

Oh, that's good. Thank you. Thank you. You took my notes about personalizing it.

[A]

Did you like it? You did?

[B]

Yeah, I did. Because I do feel like Snorlax a lot of the time. Just a big boy who wants to lie down and sleep.

[A]

Today's episode is about supper clubs. And I'm wondering, when I say the two words supper clubs, what comes to mind? What do you think, Hayden Donnell?

[B]

Oh, that is. It's been a long time since you've completely stumped me with one. Honestly, I thought that all aspects of America would travel to me, but for some reason, not a supper club. For some reason, I think it might be like Toastmasters or something where people stand up and give speeches or supper. What do you do at supper? You have a little nightcap, maybe a little amaro, and. And talk to another gentleman in a top hat.

[A]

What?

[B]

What do you do at supper club? Well, are you going to tell me? Do I have to listen to this stupid podcast to find out?

[A]

Yeah. Here's a transition. Here's your answer. Starting now. I'm David Farrier, New Zealand, accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick. Now, for a while, we've gotten emails to flightless bird chatmail.com Wanting me to go to a supper club, which, like Hayden, I had never heard of until the email started flowing in. Part of the issue is that where Rob and I live in la, supper clubs aren't really a thing. Am I wrong on that, Rob?

[C]

I'm not really sure what we're doing.

[A]

The hell are we doing? But then I ended up in Wisconsin at a giant cheese competition, and it seemed criminal not to poke my nose into the world of the supper club, which primarily exists in upper Midwestern states like Iowa, Michigan, which I always want to say is Michigan. Apparently it's Michigan and Wisconsin. They have their origin in the Prohibition, in the 20s and the 30s when alcohol was deemed very naughty. People looking for other ways to entertain themselves without getting arrested. By the 50s and 60s, supper clubs were basically a thing that everyone knew about, a place to hunker down and hang out. And today in the Midwest, it seems like they're as big as ever, begging the question still, what the fuck is a supper club? So make like Hayden and put on your top hat because this is the supper club episode. Flightless, flightless, flightless bird Touchdown in America. Imma fly this bird Touchdown in America. Okay, so this episode about supper clubs is part of our Infamous Wisconsin series.

[C]

Yeah, we started a month ago.

[A]

We started a month ago. So it started with an episode on cheese and cheese hits. I went to a giant cheese competition. I saw giant wheels of cheese. I ate cheese. Incredibly cheesy. Hayden, if you recall, talked about his love of night cheese, as did you. We all love night cheese. Before bed. Then informally, the series got much longer than its intended two parts because we were dealing with Evely Wahongi, who is a New Zealander.

[C]

Wisconsinite.

[A]

Now Wisconsinite. Her family is in Wisconsin. She is in a nice detention facility. So that sort of informally stretched out the two part Wisconsin series into a four parter.

[C]

Did you, did you get my pun there?

[A]

I saw you looking happy and I didn't know why. Do it again.

[C]

Oh, Wisconsinite.

[A]

Wisconsin. I.

[C]

A Wisconsin night. She's a welder from Wisconsin. Wisconsinite.

[A]

That. Yeah, that.

[C]

I mean, Wisconsinite would be the term of a person from Wisconsin.

[A]

That's what I went with. I didn't go with you. There's always, you're like the riddler. There's always, there's always like quite an annoying other layer to what you're saying. We're recording this at 9:30 in the, at 8:30 in the morning. And that went over the head. If you were a criminal mastermind and you were sort of talking to the police via riddles about your murders, you would, the police would, the Fed said, throw up their hands in frustration at how annoying your clues were. They were not dealing with this, these puns anymore. Just let him keep killing. That's what they'd say about you. The point is, this is part of our Wisconsin series. Wisconsin. I'm wearing my Wisconsin shirt. Beautiful. Part of America. A part of America that's really won me over.

[C]

Yeah, I do think it's a little bit criminal. You went to Wisconsin and didn't do the Dells though.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And the emails are informing me about this.

[C]

Yeah. I mean like you, you go to Wisconsin. That's kind of what you do.

[A]

You go to the Dells.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So my thinking on this and where I got it very wrong is I realized when I was packing my bag to go to Wisconsin, I looked at

[C]

the weather, I forgot the bathing suit. And you're like, I can't go to the water park capital of the United States.

[A]

That it was incredibly fucking cold there. It was. I was packing jackets and I thought to myself, it's gonna be closed.

[C]

No, that's when.

[A]

This is a waterfall. That's when the delta is gonna be closed.

[C]

Thrive.

[A]

This is Something I was deeply unaware of. I didn't know that some of this shit is indoors.

[C]

I would say most of it all year round.

[A]

Yeah. And that's sort of what the people do there when they're bored. It gets wintry. What do you do? Clearly, you go swimming. But in New Zealand, that, like, that's a. That's a cultural mismatch that I did not clock.

[C]

Yeah, I fucked up. My family still in Chicago. My family that still lives in Chicago goes to the Dells around Christmas time.

[A]

And so it's. It's just tradition. You pack up the family, the kids, you jump in the car and you go.

[C]

Yeah, it's just two hours north of Chicago. Two and a half hours north of Chicago.

[A]

And are you staying? Is it. In my mind, going to the Dells feels like going to Vegas, you maybe stay in a hotel for a night. You're sort of in. You're permanently. Like in Vegas, you're always in a casino. In the Dells, I feel you're always in a swimming pool. And all the swimming pools are connected to each other via underground tunnels. Is it kind of like that?

[C]

Not my family. My family has timeshares. Do you know about timeshares?

[A]

We have that in New Zealand, but I feel like I'm not familiar with it because I feel like it's a. It is more of an American thing. Expand.

[C]

Yeah, you, like, buy into. You buy a timeshare, and that gives you time that you can share in different locations around the country that they are.

[A]

Okay, I'm completely. I'm completely confused now.

[C]

It's like a. It's like a step up from a hotel. It's usually a little bigger, but not. Not as nice of amenities. And it's very.

[A]

It's like Airbnb, sort of.

[C]

But I thought.

[A]

Wait, I thought a timeshare is when you and I together.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Would buy a property and we'd share what time we could spend there.

[C]

It's kind of that, but okay. At a much grander scheme in a. Like, more of a resort area, but the resort is just shitty condos, so you've.

[A]

Sometimes you'll have hundreds of people going on a timeshare. You pay a little bit and you get to spend some time.

[C]

People you're sharing with don't really come into play because it's just a bigger scheme.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And notoriously, when you go and stay at a timeshare, you have to, like, sit through these meetings where they try to sell you them because you can give it. You can let, like, Friends go, stay. Like we would go and use my parents time share.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then we'd. My dad would be like, well, you get like 300 bucks or vouchers for meals if you go, can you go to this meeting? And it's just a sales guy that tries to sell you more time for two hours of like, well, your parents got it. You guys should buy into this timeshare.

[A]

This is a whole other world. I didn't realize this.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Have you ever considered going in on a time?

[C]

Absolutely not.

[A]

You get to what holiday and sort of a shitty kind of.

[C]

Well, so that's the other thing is they have like, it's one brand. I think Wyndham is the one my parents have. So you have to look at where the Wyndham locations are usually not in every like metropolitan area that you want to go visit. It's like, oh, we want to go to la. I guess we'll stay in Indio because that's where the timeshare is close you're

[A]

way somewhere in the desert.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Huh.

[C]

And I think they have like affiliate brands too that you can do, but you have to also plan them like a year out.

[A]

Is it for old, generally older people.

[C]

So I think those are the people getting scammed. And I mean, I think my dad, dad has. They've had it for 40 years. And I think he's the case where like he really takes advantage of it and makes it worth his while.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But normally I think you're paying these fees to be in this association and

[A]

timeshare and getting very little bang for your buck. Yes, but you could put that money into better places.

[C]

Not my dad and I think my sisters bought in. One of my sisters bought in with him.

[A]

Right. And so going back to the Dells, they've got a timeshare at the Dells

[C]

do have a timeshare.

[A]

So whenever they want to get wet, they want to go on a slide. They want to have fun. Pack up the bags, kids. We're going to the timeshare.

[C]

I'm sure we have listeners that have timeshares. And we'll write in correcting the spreadsheet gmail.com.

[A]

i want to hear from people that are deeply pro timeshare and people that are very anti timeshare. Yeah. I want your horror stories and I want your dream stories.

[C]

I do feel like Airbnb is probably hurt. The whole timeshare business.

[A]

Okay, I see.

[C]

Because. Yeah, but, but it is like it's not a hotel. Like you're getting a full kitchenette A living room, two, three bedrooms. So you're getting a much better place to stay size wise than you would if you're just a family going to get a hotel and cramming into that.

[A]

And am I right in thinking that a timeshare, this is the timeshare episode, is aimed primarily at families as opposed to individuals who are traveling around?

[C]

I would say. So if you need to go to Pagosa Springs with your family timeshare there.

[A]

See, I also feel when I start describing what a supper club is, I think it's going to be very much like you describing what a timeshare is, where I just confuse you more and more as opposed to clarifying anything.

[C]

Yeah, probably.

[A]

What do you think suburb club is?

[C]

Yeah, I go to a dinner party. A bunch of like neighbors getting together, bringing Tupperware with casseroles over and mingling. You mentioned prohibition in the intro. So I'm thinking of like that 70s show, the episode where they're having like a party and you've got the parents drinking.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And there's hors d' oeuvres and appetizers.

[A]

It's sounding great. Really good. It's not. It's not that this is a rarity where I feel like we have a topic where Perhaps I know 10% more than you do.

[C]

Possibly you might. Unless it's just you tell me what it is and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a dinner party.

[A]

Yeah, that thing. But okay, for the record, because I, until I went to a supper club, I had so many images in my mind of what a supper club was. What is conjured up in your mind right now when I say supper club is in Wisconsin?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know this.

[C]

A bunch of neighbors bringing food over.

[A]

Well, weirdly, technically there is a. There, there is a supper club that is that. You could say I'm going to have a supper club at my house. And that is sort of a loose definition of having people over to the house.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But in Wisconsin, and this is where I know I'm going to get something wrong about this. A supper club is essentially a restaurant. Right. But it's a restaurant, so it's a physical location. It's kind of the vibe in there. And I've only been to two supper clubs so far. The vibe is very. Everything's sort of wooden and brown and very. The lighting's a bit dim. It's very. Settle into your chair, strap in. Because you're not leaving for eight hours.

[C]

Eight hours.

[A]

I'm just ad libbing a little bit. But the idea felt like eight hours. So a supper club, the idea is that you were there, not just. Not like in la. We were dining and dashing, you know, we're not rushing in with our busy lives. You're sitting down at 5 o', clock, you're having some drinks, the cheeses start arriving on crackers. You sort of nibbling on cheese for an hour, another cocktail, then the dinner comes in.

[C]

Who's in attendance? This is like. You go with your family, you go with.

[A]

Yes. So, yeah, all of the above.

[C]

It's a social thing, like a Chili's. You're in a Chili's and there's other. Other people having dinner.

[A]

On one level it's like a Chili's where it's a bunch of random people all agreeing to go to this place. On the other hand, it's going with your friends and family and just bonding with each other. Almost like you're over your own dining room table.

[C]

You're just going to dinner with your friends.

[A]

Yeah, it's a real. It's a restaurant. But everything about it is geared that you stay there for ages because it prioritizes talking and like sipping on a drink, nibbling on some cheese. And then the food comes in and everything's fucking big. It's a big steak, it's a giant trout or whatever fish you have in America on your plate.

[C]

Are you ordering individual from a menu?

[A]

Yes, as a menu.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

The club is deceptive because I thought the club indicates some kind of membership or some kind of fancy outfit. I think that's where Hayden got the idea of wearing a top hat.

[C]

To me, club meant the frequency of it, that you're doing it like once a month on a certain Sunday. Nothing to do with that?

[A]

Not really.

[C]

Or.

[A]

Okay, no. All the club, I think, really all it indicates is that you're going there. And you might, because people that love supper clubs go there all the time. You might get to know other people that go there. So maybe it's a bit like, ah, see you there, see you at the club. Like a country club, but with no membership. And it's not expensive. Like there are fancy supper clubs. There are. So I went to a very fancy supper club. There are supper clubs that are like dive bars, they're super low key, but generally they're all relatively affordable. I. And maybe again, coming from la, where everything is so generally expensive, I was crazy what you could buy with your money there. Just massive feasts would come to your table.

[C]

I'm really curious if the time thing is actually something that's part of this or just something that you globbed on to and couldn't get out of your brain when you went to it.

[A]

Knowing how my brain works. Yeah, quite likely.

[C]

That's what it seems like.

[A]

Mail.com.

[C]

but any of this maybe we'll learn in the doc if that's actually.

[A]

Yeah, it is. It's definitely this idea of they're not rushing you out the door. They're not wanting to fill your table with the next person. They want you to stay there and drink any alcohol is a big part of it.

[C]

Well, I'm just wondering if this is just Wisconsin culture that's kind of Midwest culture more. And if somehow you're conflating any restaurant trip in Wisconsin.

[A]

Yeah, no, I. In this case, I wouldn't put the blame on me. I put the blame on Wisconsin. I think Wisconsin has conflated the dining experience with their laid back, chilled out nature and have combined the two.

[C]

All right, well, I guess let's hear about it.

[A]

This is my experience in Wisconsin. Obviously, the way to learn about what a supper club is is to go to a supper club. And the one I'd heard a few people mention so far was the Tornado Steakhouse. There was also the fact it was just around the corner from my hotel, and the very first person I walked into there was a Kiwi. I'm a server. My name's Jaz. Now. I know that voice. You're a New Zealander. I'm a Kiwi. What are you doing in the Tornado Room in Madison? I love it here. I'm a server. I've been here. This is my 10th year. This is like a family and we love the clientele here and the food is amazing. Before getting back to work, Jaz introduced me to her boss.

[D]

My name's Henry Doan. I'm the owner and the chef of Tornado Steakhouse.

[A]

I describe the Tornado Steakhouse as feeling really warm and cozy. It's all wooden and there are a lot of booths and there's a bar and it's all packed.

[D]

I opened it in 1996, so it's been quite a long time. I was a youngster, and this June will be our 30th anniversary.

[A]

When Henry bought it, it was already a supper club called Crandall's, which had been really popular in the 50s. So this location has been a supper club in one form or another for ages.

[D]

When we first opened, it was like people were, like, getting into swing dancing and cigars and this rat pat thing. And it was like, oh, My God, we fit right into this trend. And then suddenly stakes were big again. And then, and now more lately in the last like five or six years. It's like people are in love with supper clubs. You know, we've always seemed to be in the right place at the right time. Even though we haven't moved or changed at all. Our menu has been the same since we opened.

[A]

Looking around the room, it does feel like a throwback to a different time, which is sort of what supper clubs are all about.

[D]

Usually they have like a white linen tablecloth. It's dark, it's got the wood paneling. They serve old fashions, they serve big steaks. Everything comes with a salad or a soup and a side dish. Prices are reasonable. It's inviting for, you know, you don't need to be in a suit and tie. You can come dressed however you want.

[A]

Thank God for me.

[D]

You're lucky. Some supper clubs are essentially like a dive bar, basically a bar with steaks. Others are high end restaurants.

[A]

A popular divey supper club in town is called Toby's. But honestly, I've done so many dive bars lately, I feel it's time to live it up a little. All on Flightless Bird's dime. So after pre gaming at the Tornado Room, I head to the fanciest supper club in town, Harvey House.

[C]

So starting in the very center over here, we have our everything seasoned cheddar grissini.

[E]

On both ends of our relish tray,

[C]

we have some of our pickled red and gold beets along with some B

[E]

and B pickles and some summer sausage.

[A]

Summer sausage, yum yum.

[C]

As well as our smoked white fish spread.

[E]

I hope you enjoy.

[A]

Harvey House is a kind of elevated supper club. It still feels old fashioned and cozy. It's just also really, really fancy. I'm sitting here with Craig Trost who works with the Wisconsin Department of Tourism. He had a big hand in getting top Chef here a few years back.

[E]

The supper club's born out of prohibition. People wanted to come out and be with their community again and gather at the bar and hang out. And so supper club became this very slow dining experience in Wisconsin. I was raised in a supper club. I was drinking kitty cocktails or Shirley temples as some people call them. I mean, I remember sitting there with my parents for a three hour dinner.

[A]

Craig tells me that certain days are defined by certain foods at a supper club.

[E]

Saturday is going to be your prime rib. Sunday is going to be your broasted chicken.

[A]

Then there's the fish.

[E]

The walleye is a Classic Wisconsin fish. We're the home of Lake Michigan and Lake Superior. We have both of those lakes touch our borders. We have the mighty Mississippi along the western coast of the state. So we're bordered by water on three sides. And Wisconsin is the home to 15,000 inland lakes. So we do fish and we do it well. Friday is going to be your fish fry, no matter what time of year.

[A]

Fish fry is something I can get on board with as it kind of sounds like the fish and chips we have back home in New Zealand. In Wisconsin, a fish fry is usually cod, perch, bluegill, walleye, smelt, or catfish fried, and beer better. And it comes with things like coleslaw, baked beans or fries.

[E]

There's theories about why the Friday fish fry exists. One story is that it dates back to the Catholic Church really trying to take care of the fishermen because business was slow. And so the concept of Lent, you know, you got to give up something, right? And so a lot of people now, you know, like in the Catholic community, give up meat. And so a lot of fish is consumed on a Friday. And so hence the Friday fish fry. But it was so popular that it's just every Friday now. It's just every Friday.

[A]

At this point, we're joined by Shaina.

[F]

My name is Shaina Pappich and I am the creative director and co owner of the Harvey House. My husband and I opened it together. So it's really a family restaurant. We have three little kids that run through here. My daughter's sitting at the bar right now. She's four. You can really only do that in Wisconsin.

[A]

One thing that's been on my mind this whole time is what makes a supper club a club? Exactly. Is there a membership or can you just sort of walk in the door?

[F]

Yeah, it's just a restaurant. It's a style of restaurant. And I think the club is actually interesting because I don't actually think that Midwest people love, like a members only club. So I think club is really not the right word if you were thinking of it in that context. You are definitely not an idiot for not knowing what a subject, because I don't think anybody really knows what a supper club is. It's a pretty subjective thing, I think. So there's a lot of different styles of supper clubs throughout the Midwest. And I think there's like a few things that, you know, come up over and over again through supper clubs, but they don't necessarily need to be in supper clubs. So I think there's like a sense of nostalgia. There's. They're usually sort of like family owned and run. There's usually some classic sort of midwestern staples like a chicken cordon bleu or a fish fry or a relish.

[A]

They really love their fish here. Fish, fish, fish.

[F]

We do have the filet of fish sandwich that's delicious, that you should definitely try, and that has walleye in it.

[A]

Is fish a big thing in this area?

[F]

Walleye is so walleye is a Lake Superior fish. Cod fish fry on Fridays is kind of a supper club thing.

[A]

Drinking is also a big part of supper club life.

[F]

The Old Fashioned is a big drink that you will see everywhere. There is a Wisconsin Old Fashioned.

[E]

Wisconsin Old Fashioned is served with muddled fruit on the bottom, usually a cherry and an orange slice with a sugar cube. We serve our old fashions with brandy instead of bourbon. Give that a little bit of a sweeter flavor. There's ice cream drinks after dinner. There's all kinds of fun little touches to a supper club.

[A]

And what kind of people are generally coming to a supper club as people coming in on dates? Are they families? Are they people over the age of 90? How does it work?

[F]

So I think that is different in each supper club. I think some supper clubs are really the only restaurant or sit down restaurant in certain communities throughout Wisconsin. So that is sort of like your third space. I think supper clubs in larger places like Madison, we see a lot of special occasion guests and we see a lot of regulars as well. So, you know, it's really a combination.

[A]

And I guess that's the other main thing, the social aspect. Supper clubs are full of people and they're all here for ages. And so you get to meet new people and make new friends.

[F]

But there's a lot of relationships that get formed here between guests, between staff, between whomever that are really memorable and special.

[A]

So before I left, I talked to a few of the people around me just to see what the vibe was. And as is so often the case, when you talk to random people, people can be kind of amazing.

[F]

My name is Christine Whelan and I am the purpose professor at Emory University. We always see somebody that we know. It's really nice to be able to smile and wave at folks.

[G]

My name is Chuck Raison and I'm a researcher. I study psychedelics. So Madison turns out to be a world center of psychedelic research. And so I run most of the programs at the university. I'm a psychiatrist. So my work is trying to discover new ways to treat depression. Psychedelics have this really powerful signal that they help a lot of people.

[A]

Again, just random people sat next to me. All fans of supper clubs, all fans of this part of the US it's the fifth coast.

[G]

The number of people that pass through here that then go on to impact history is unbelievable. And the things that have been done at this university. Antibiotics. Here's where they figured out how to make them available to people. Pasteurized milk and how to put it in the United States. You think about Frank Lloyd Wright was here. John Muir was here.

[A]

It's wild.

[G]

This place is like this intense hotbed of creativity in this sort of area of the country that's more stable, friendly. It's a really. I hate the weather. I'm from California. But in terms of the human element here, it's one of the optimal spots in the United States.

[A]

So Christine and Chuck were on one side of me. Heather was on the other. She raises money for the cancer center at the local university.

[F]

A lot of my growing up was in Wisconsin, and my dad's side is from Wisconsin. So I have spent a lot of time in supper clubs around the state.

[A]

She made sure I did things right here.

[F]

You have not been to a supper club if you've not had a grasshopper at the end of your meal.

[A]

And before I left Madison, her and her family proved that whole hospitality thing by taking me out to some other local spots. Butter Bird for more food. Then on to watch my first ever college basketball game.

[F]

Cheers.

[A]

I learned that the Badgers have a New Zealander on the team, Hayden Jones from Nelson. And I realized my journey into supper clubs had started with a Kiwi server at the Tornado Steakhouse and ended with another one, this one on the basketball court. Go Badgers. Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Support for Flightless Bird comes from Quince. Now, lately, I've been trying to get a lot more intentional about what I wear day to day, leaning into things that feel easy, comfy and put together. It makes getting dressed simpler. And Quince is becoming my go to. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are clean, and everything just works without needing to overthink it. And Quince has all the wardrobe staples for spring. Think 100% European linen shorts and shirts from $34 and lightweight, breathable and comfortable, but still look put together. Their pants also hit that same balance. Relax and comfortable and still polished enough to wear pretty much anywhere. Everything is priced 50 to 80% less than what you find at similar brands. Quince also works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen so you're getting prem materials without the markup. I have a puffer jacket from Quince and as I record this right now I am in Minneapolis heading on to New York and it is chilly in the air. And this lightweight puffer, it falls down and fits into my suitcase perfectly. It's so lightweight to wear. It cuts out the wind. And even though I'm really warm, I'm never too warm in it. It's breathable. Oh, it's so good. So refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use head to quince.combird for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com bird for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com bird support for flightless Bird comes from Bombus. If you're anything like me, everyone wants to know what your 2026 resolutions are. I'm getting sick of it, quite honestly. But I had one resolution and that was to get comfy. And that's where Bombus comes in. They're bringing serious comfort to all the everyday. Go to shoes you might want in your life.

[C]

Yeah, you know, I take my softball very seriously.

[A]

Believe me, I do.

[C]

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[A]

Where is Garadelph A miner? Don't miss the return of Marvel Television Television's Daredevil Born Again. So what's next? I feel liberated.

[C]

We're gonna take this city back over

[A]

medicated in an all new season. Now streaming only on Disney plus. They're hunting us.

[F]

It's time we started hunting them.

[A]

I can work with that.

[C]

Nobody gives.

[A]

This should be tons of fun. Marvel Television's Daredevil Born Again now streaming only on Disney plus. Do you feel like you have clarity on the supper club? And I would argue I think I have clarity on the supper club.

[C]

Yeah. I, I get it. I get it now.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like it's something you would enjoy potentially.

[C]

Yeah. I mean the supper club feels like the antithesis to chain restaurants in small towns.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Locally owned restaurant. And I mean. And I think in smaller towns you get that slower pacing of life.

[A]

Yeah. There's just less pressure to rush off and do a million different things. You feel you have to do less fomo.

[C]

Yes. Like I, I don't know that a supper club would fit in in la.

[A]

I think you're completely wrong.

[C]

City.

[A]

I think it would be. I don't think it would work. I think people are too rushed and I think people just don't have the personality to slow down and chill the hell out.

[C]

Yeah. Which I can appreciate that of Drawn out Hangout. You went by yourself.

[A]

I went by the first one. I went by myself. It was actually very funny. So I went to the two. The first one I went to. Just been in town forever, just on my own at a table. And when I was being served by jazz, I just felt so sad because I was just running hours.

[C]

Well, yeah. That's what I would. I would probably just be annoyed at the service if I went by myself to a supper club.

[A]

It's. You sit down. I had my phone to keep me company. But you're essentially just. It's, it's just very funny when you are in a. At a table that has a chair on the other side and there's no one there.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

One of the things. This is a side dish. One of the things I love most about America, one of the things unintentional is that I love that if, if you're on your own, you can go at it. Often at a restaurant, there'll be a bar or you can have bar food, especially a diner. I love that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We don't really have that in New Zealand.

[C]

You don't have bars at restaurants in New Zealand?

[A]

Not. Am I making sense? Not really. Like, it's very hard in New Zealand. It's. America has made it okay to be alone and to be a loser. You can just eat on your own and you're not judged for it because there are usually seating arrangements that don't make you feel like a dickhead.

[C]

Right. Yeah. Six person booth by yourself sitting in the middle like this.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

Asking.

[A]

And. And the supper club did have a bar.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And if in another situation I probably would have sat there, but I was sat at this little table in the corner. And it's just objectively very funny when you're on your own eating a lot of food.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. No, I have a very like, specific image of. In my mind. I mean, it's. I keep just thinking of Chili's of like going to a suburb, a suburban Chili's, and you got the bar and there's people sitting there and there.

[A]

I'm going to complicate this further. I'm pretty confident I haven't been to a Chili's.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And so when you make that reference, I feel I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[C]

Looks like we got a Chili's episode.

[A]

We do.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

There was a mention of grasshopper at the end of every meal and you just totally glazed over it.

[A]

I did glaze over it. And I look so a grasshopper. And I'm going to talk in general terms here because I'm worried if I get specific, I'll fuck it up. No. So this thing that I'm deeply into in Wisconsin and in supper club culture is that they are really into creamy cocktails. I'm a creamy cocktail man. I always have a bottle of Bailey's in the freezer because it's the creamiest of drinks. And so Wisconsin has popularized the idea of essentially taking. They're essentially. I cream drink, like a thick shake, essentially, or a milkshake, but adding booze in there. And that is normalized and it's not childish. And everyone is doing it. And so a grasshopper. It's green, hence the grasshopper. It's got some kind of alcohol in there. Flatspread chat at gmail dot com. Tell me what it is. It's just creamy sweet deliciousness. God, it was good and it's fine. It's normal. And it was great to be in a place where I wasn't being mocked for having a creamy cocktail. Because in L. A People are like, what are you doing? You meant to be shredding for summer. You can't be having that creamy cocktail. That's crazy.

[C]

I did think you was the insect. And that would have been a fun twist and make it kind of a creepy culty thing if everyone left was given a grasshopper to crunch down on.

[A]

I am glad we cleared that up. Yeah, very glad we cleared that up. I took some other notes that I thought was sort of interesting. So I mentioned in the intro that it kind of the whole culture of them came out during the prohibition where people were sort of gathering in these places and making their own fun, either with alcohol or without.

[C]

Oh, so they were. This was illegal.

[A]

The origin of them was legal. Now they are very legal.

[C]

Did you feel a bit naughty then?

[A]

I felt a bit naughty when I was eating alone.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That felt like I was up to something weird. But apparently. Again, I wish I had more details on this, but in my brief research into this topic, apparently the First Supper Club was actually in California, not Wisconsin.

[C]

What part?

[A]

Dunno.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Somewhere just a little fact you can hold onto there. I like giving out facts that are very broad and so when you bring them up, people will just have more questions.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And not know the follow ups. No. And you're not sitting on a computer with Internet right now that could tell you the answer to either.

[A]

No Internet here. And I'm always in flight mode. Okay. Every second of the day. Talking to the creamy cocktails, I found a website, Vinepair. I think it's a wine website, but they did this big feature purely on are the creamy cocktails in Wisconsin classy or silly? And a quote from that piece. My last ice cream cocktail was a Brandy Alexander, which I sipped at the bar inside our 175-year-old supper club and former inn in southeastern Wisconsin. It tasted like a posh dark chocolate milkshake with a boozy edge, sporting a creamy texture as soft as silk. This is great food writing right here. But the place where I drank it might matter more. And then it goes on to speaking about this amazing club. And then there's a quote from John Dye, who owns Cocktail Lounge. I find ice cream cocktails to be charming and just a real unique piece of Wisconsin. He favors the Golden Cadillac for its booziness and complexity from the addition of herbaceous Galliano liqueur. Quote. People in Wisconsin can take anything that's bad for you and make it worse for you. He says. They'll take a burger and put butter on there, or take ice cream and put Booze in there. It's a beautiful place. I really like that quote. So they've basically just all gotten on board with a boozy ice cream.

[C]

The interior sounds a bit like Magic

[A]

Castle Fair, I would say.

[C]

Magic Castle.

[A]

Holy shit. No, I'd say it's a supper club. You go in there for ages, you make a night of it. You're drinking, you're eating. It's a long meal. The Magic Castle is LA supper club. I think you might be onto something. But with magicians running around and very expensive. Another fact, Harvey House, that bougie one that I went to, the MVP for the woman's hockey club, the woman's hockey team at the Olympics, Caroline Harvey, because she's called Harvey. The Harvey house hosted her afterwards and apparently she's awesome. Just a little sports fact that I threw in there for you. Bonus sports fact for Rob. Another fact. Do you want to hear it?

[C]

Yeah, I would love to. So

[A]

I was told while I was at my bougie supper club, an origin story of why they tend to put brandy in their old fashions instead of bourbon. So apparently when Europeans were immigrating over to the United States, the wine would go bad. These ships took a long time. Sometimes air got in there. Disaster. They drink the wine. Disgusting. They vomit it all up. Awful. So what they do is they would spike the wine with brandy to make it last longer. And therefore you have brandy wine. And so somehow that whole put brandy and things stayed in Wisconsin. And now they tend to put brandy into their Old Fashioned instead of bourbon. Also, they tend to have a sweeter palate here in Wisconsin, he said. And then it got kind of weird. A real trip. If you order Wisconsin Old Fashioned, generally, they're going to ask you if you want it sweet or sour. And that simply means do you want it with Squirt or seven Up? I don't know what Squirt is.

[C]

Or it's just like an off brand seven up or Sprite.

[A]

Okay. So they're basically just sweetening everything up.

[C]

I mean, it's like club soda instead.

[A]

Okay, I see. So it's like club soda or you put seven up in if you want it sweet.

[C]

Yeah, because it's lemon and lime and syrup.

[A]

Finally, we had an email months ago that I saved and I thought it's appropriate to read. It's from Coltrane.

[C]

It's from Coltrane.

[A]

Great name, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Wisconsin consistently ranks among America's drunkest states. With this comes the Wisconsin dive bar. And I love a dive. A dive bar unlike any other Wisconsin Dive bars have their own games, special drinks, and memorable bartenders. They're often situated within the old houses of our European immigrant ancestors and are in residential neighborhoods. I live in Milwaukee and have eight dive bars within a mile of my house. And we live in a residential neighborhood. That's an amazing stat.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, in Chicago, when I lived in Bucktown, there were two, three, four dive bars within a few blocks.

[A]

Really right there, like in.

[C]

In a little neighborhood. And yeah, it was just like, that's a house on the corner. That's Corner bar. And convert it into a bar.

[A]

I really like that. I like the idea of a house being converted.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Into a bar. Weirdly, I went to a cafe in LA last week that was in a house that somehow got permission from the other residents to have this bustling cafe in the middle of a residential area. It's actually really good. Coltrane ends by saying, outsiders will always be greeted with open arms by the locals. And I think that's how I would sum up my Wisconsin experience. It was welcoming those people. That woman I met at the supper club, she was like, how long are you here for? Oh, you've never been to a college basketball game. Come with us. The next night, she was amazing, and she booked us in at this amazing chicken place. The next night, went to this college basketball game. Found out there was a New Zealander on the team. I'm like, holy shit. Go, New Zealand.

[C]

So you're a college basketball fan now?

[A]

I am. Go. Badges.

[C]

A bit of a badge. If you had to pick a sport, it would have been basketball.

[A]

Basketball, yeah.

[C]

NBA made it.

[A]

My older brother, Robert Farrier, he was very good at sport, very good at basketball. And so I tried to be like him. Tried to play basketball. Not very good.

[C]

Tall, though, so that helped.

[A]

Didn't help me.

[C]

Yeah, not coordinated.

[A]

So I guess pretty bad at catching, dribbling, running, shooting, dunking.

[C]

I would love to watch you play basketball.

[A]

Yeah, look, it wasn't graceful, and I tried for a number of years, but point being, I know the rules so I can watch and understand what the hell is going on.

[C]

Maybe we need to find a pickup basketball game in LA to go play.

[A]

I feel like they're always playing out at the beach.

[C]

Aren't they playing everywhere?

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah, there's like a. There's a court right by our softball fields. And there's always games going on there, too.

[A]

I was not terrible at three pointers. Okay, so watch out.

[C]

Yeah, let's see how.

[A]

Okay, a few final items. Just quickly, in regards to Evely Whose family is in Wisconsin. As we said earlier, she is still in a nice attention facility. When this episode airs will have made her in there for 33 days. Quite a long time. In last week's episode I mentioned how our Minister of Foreign Affairs, Winston Peters had gone and talked to the media and said heavily fucked up. She didn't declare a drug conviction from 10 years ago. New Zealand is washing our hands of things. I was talking with my friend Dylan about this because we've come in and out of America before and we were like, what is this declaration of drugs like this that Winston Peters made It sound like there's a form you fill in where when you enter the United States, you're handed a form and you sort of tick. Have you had prior offenses?

[C]

Yeah. Which also though that doesn't warrant being arrested.

[A]

Oh yeah, no, it doesn't warrant being arrested. Yeah, no, none of that does.

[C]

That has been taken care of. It's not an outstanding warrant.

[A]

No, absolutely not. Everly could have come into the airport so screaming 10 years ago. Yeah, I had a conviction. That doesn't mean you should lock evely up for 33 days. But just as like I get obsessed with sort of technicalities. So I reached out to an immigration attorney about this and I said, we've got our Minister of Foreign affairs saying ev didn't declare when she entered the America. Entered America. And I said, how could she declare? And so this is what the immigration attorney told me. There isn't a way or a requirement for her to have declared her drug conviction. And to be honest, she would have been detained anyway, even if she did match up to the CBP officer and declare it, which doesn't make any kind of sense. No idea when she last renewed her green card, but green cards generally are valid for 10 years at a time. However, when you fill out an i90 form, which is the form to replace or renew a green card, if you take a look at it, there's nowhere on the form that you have to disclose arrests, convictions, charges or anything. Italy should hopefully be released on bond by the next time we hear about her case. So there is no form when you're applying for your green card. There is no form when you arrive in the United States when you're on a green card. She went on to say, in regards to bond that's currently being denied in 95% of cases. I have a few clients in Delanto right now as well. They're just doing everything possible to make people just decide to go back to their home country instead of being detained indefinitely. But for many people who are detained, this is their home and they're not criminals. That's just the messaging they want Americans to believe to be able to sleep at night about these detention centres. So, in summary, Winston Peters and the New Zealand government, you are. No words. Okay. Feedback. There was a lot of distress about a comment you made in an episode last week.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

About how we were thinking of ending Flightless Bird, and then we got a Webby Award and we decided to soldier on.

[C]

Yeah. That was a joke. It was a deadpan joke.

[A]

So I would just like to say, as a listener of Flightless Bird, you just experience what I experience often, which is Rob makes a joke you don't understand as a joke, you're very confused. And then when you raise it with Rob, he'll laugh and say it was a joke. So you just experience what I experienced. We were not sick of the show. It might happen one day. It certainly hasn't happened yet. It's lovely to win a Webby, but we were going to continue. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, we've got a pack schedule coming up and lots of stuff in the works and things planned. So, yes, we were planning to continue to make this show for as long as we can.

[A]

So I just wanted to allay any fears. Alexis wrote in saying, I just finished the Cheese Head episode and I'm so mad at myself. I live in Madison and I swore I saw you when I was leaving the Badger basketball game in early March. But I thought, no way. That can't be the coolest guy in the world. David Fario.

[C]

Is that what that says?

[A]

I added that okay bit in. I saw the episode this morning, looked at the dates for the Cheese competition, and realized it probably was you, Alexis. It was me. Lesson being, if you see someone you think you know in a weird place, just go up and say hello. Worst thing that can happen is they go, you're crazy. I'm not said person. Dylan says, thanks for sharing Everly's story. I love the whimsical episodes, but this is the kind of journalism that's missing from the US Media. Thank you. Dylan's very kind. There are definitely podcasts that cover very intense topics, but thank you for the kind words. You're awesome. Paula wrote in, I'm behind, but I just watched the puzzle episode and wanted to give my opinion on easy versus hard puzzle options. For a beginner like yourself, I find the busier they are, the easier they are. As you can look for certain items in the picture, the best for this in my opinion are puzzles by Jan van Harsteren. Haaa. Sturin Hairstorin. Whether these are available outside New Zealand is a different story. However, my dad also made me a board with an edge so it just slides under the couch. That was a suggestion for you, Rob. You can also get felt mats that roll up. I framed a heap when I was a bogan teenager and hung them up. Recently I found these in my parents shed 30 years later. Parent sheds, parents attics and basements. Great places to look in years on. You find all your weird from when you're a kid. Natalie wrote in with a number of items and I'm going to end on her. Would you like to hear them, Rob?

[C]

My wife Natalie.

[A]

You decide. That's the game. Is this your wife? Okay. In regards to the coriander gene. I mentioned the coriander gene a long time ago, David. I am one of the 10% of folks who has the misfiring aldehyde detection system that makes coriander or cilantro, AKA cilantro, taste like soap. You humorously suggested that we were more evolved than others. This is where things turn. I'm not happy about this at all. I actually felt quite distressed reading this. You suggested that we were more evolved than others, but sadly the opposite is true. Way back in the days of yore, a relative of coriander was poisonous. So early humans had these systems that detected that so we wouldn't eat it. However, that relative plant died out leaving us with the edible coriander or cilantro of today. The detection system in taste and smell has gradually filtered out of humanity due to evolution and is no longer needed. So the ones that still have it like you are technically speaking less evolved.

[C]

So it tastes like soap to you? Yeah, yeah, it does to my mom.

[A]

Do you know how fucked up it is?

[C]

I will be.

[A]

I will be salivating at a salad that a friend has made for a dinner.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I see them across the kitchen sprinkling the shit on there. They might as well be shredding like grating soap onto this delicious salad and I have to sit there and eat this disgusting food.

[C]

Yeah, I think Calvin might have it. I'm not sure though if he just doesn't like cilantro and as being picky. He's not a picky eater though.

[A]

Maybe he doesn't like it because it tastes like soap.

[C]

It might be that.

[A]

Give him some soap and then give him some cilantro and see. Cilantro, Cilantro.

[C]

Cilantro.

[A]

Give him cilantro and see if he knows the difference.

[C]

Just a blind taste test.

[A]

Blind taste test.

[C]

Eat a bite of this bar of

[A]

soap, grate some soap and then have some cilantro and see if he can cruel. It does sound like I am advocating for something quite mean. Just a little tiny drop. Yeah.

[C]

Did when you were a kid and if you got into trouble or swore

[A]

I will wash your mouth out with soap and water was the threat. Yeah, it never happened, but it was a threat.

[C]

Yeah, it was in Christmas Story. Is that where it came from? I don't know if it came from there. Probably did not come from there. But he's got to eat the bar, so. But my brother had a very bad mouth as a kid. Filthy, filthy mouth.

[A]

Swearing or just rude?

[C]

Both.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And I don't think he would mind the soap. So my mom would have. She would then do Tabasco sauce instead.

[A]

Wait, so your mom tried the soap?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was like yum yum.

[C]

Yeah, let's. Let's do this.

[A]

Bring it, bring it. And so she swapped it out for hot sauce.

[C]

Hot sauce.

[A]

How did that go down?

[C]

He didn't like that.

[A]

Did it change his behavior?

[C]

No, no, still. Still the same.

[A]

Okay, so the next. It's appropriate. The next line in this email. My crazy mum. I haven't pre read this. We'll cut it if it's inappropriate. My mum is a true weirdo and has done a large number of bizarre things over the years. But one of the silliest was the following story, which I'm inspired to tell by the story of the monkeys getting into the beer that you told on an episode I've just listened to. I don't even remember that episode.

[C]

Seems vaguely familiar. A long, long time ago.

[A]

At one point, one of her many jobs was a night security guard at a shopping center. She was walking around about 4am and heard a noise behind her and saw a crab scuttling down the aisle centered towards her. Befuddled, she went to the bakery and asked the bakers there who had come in early to make to bake their wares for the day for a cardboard box. They gave it to her. She went back and tried to get the crab into the box without touching it and couldn't. So she stuck her foot under the box to try and flip it in there and it latched onto her foot with its claw. Can see this coming. So here she is hopping around with a crab on her foot inside a suburban shopping mall at 4am we better fucking learn where that crab came from. At the end of the story. I'm going to be annoyed. Trying to pry it off with her other foot. Eventually she. I guess open toed sandals. Maybe I'm imagining her mum's just barefoot

[C]

in the mall wandering around at 4am

[A]

which is a very Kiwi thing to do.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Eventually she kicked her own foot out from underneath her and fell into a shop window, setting off the alarm. At which point her manager radioed her to find out what the hell was going on, forcing her to have to tell him that she'd fallen into a shop, a shoe shop to be specific, whilst trying to kick a crab off her foot. From memory. I was quite young when I heard the story. Someone came up to help her. They got it off safely and into the box. That's what we all want to know. Turns out the crab was from the seafood shop and a notorious escapee. They called him Alfred. Crabs do like to escape. I remember in biology class back at Bethlehem College, the private Christian school I attended. Very homophobic back in the day. Dr. Margaret Layton, who would. She was the best teacher at making you feel guilty as hell for anything. The crabs escaped from the tank in the biology lab. Great escapees, crabs. And when we came into the class a bunch of them were dead, some of them were alive.

[C]

And she got so angry and blamed you for it.

[A]

She did, I think blame someone for letting them loose. But they escaped on their own. Crabs and octopus, great escapees.

[C]

I mean I think maybe they both know they're about to be killed and eaten.

[A]

I think that is the case. Seafood. We think that seafood isn't smart. Some of the smartest shit out there.

[C]

Yeah. I mean octopus.

[A]

Oh my God. I could watch octopus videos for hours. All animals are amazing. But the octopus, they can fit in a jar. They can take a lid off a jar.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

They can blend into any environment. They're sort of friendly. They're a little all seen octopus teacher. Where that guy was the octopus. It's like crazy.

[C]

Was he the octopus in that movie?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Pretty much it was.

[C]

It's been a while. I don't know. That's to be the boys.

[A]

No, that was me doing a joke.

[C]

But that was the boys. Where the deep was an octopus played by Tilda Swinton.

[A]

Was that Tilda Swinton?

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Oh, I love that. It makes me like the boys again. A show that we love but has the last season has fallen off a bit. If you have any feedback, flightless breadchat gmail.com if you have thoughts, feelings, corrections. Over on Patreon this week, Rob and I play the marriage game, where we attempt to get to know each other even more intimately than we do now. That was a suggestion from one of our patreons.

[C]

Yeah, that's patreon.com Flightless Bird.

[A]

A great way to support us, obviously, Patreon, but if you just want to give us a star rating on Apple podcasts or Spotify and leave us a, review that fucking algorithm. It helps. It gets it out there. Very proud of our wonderful ratings at the moment. So thanks for giving us good ratings.

[C]

Yeah. Only rate, though, if you like the show.

[A]

Don't be a negative Nancy. Don't bring us down. Don't be that guy. Or girl. We'll see you next week.

[C]

See you next week.