S4 : Ep 24 - Two Twisted Crowns by Rachel Gillig

Summary

Flights of Fantasy Podcast – Episode S4: Ep24 - "Two Twisted Crowns" by Rachel Gillig

Release Date: November 5, 2024

---

Introduction

In Episode 24 of Season 4, the Flights of Fantasy hosts, Anna and Kim, delve deep into Rachel Gillig's enthralling novel, "Two Twisted Crowns". This episode promises a rich exploration of the book's intricate plot, complex characters, and hauntingly beautiful themes, all wrapped in the hosts' signature blend of wit, warmth, and a touch of magical realism.

---

Patreon Shoutouts

Kim begins the episode by expressing heartfelt gratitude to their Patreon supporters, affectionately termed "tier two book bitches." She gives a special shoutout to Jenny Brill, Danette Bollinger, Sarah Frances Stubbs, Patricia Long, and Kimber Ballard for their unwavering support, emphasizing that their contributions make the podcast possible.

---

Recap of Book One

Before plunging into the depths of "Two Twisted Crowns," Anna provides a refresher on the first book, "One Dark Window." She outlines the magical town of Blunder, enveloped in a deadly mist that grants magical abilities to those infected, albeit with a dark side—degeneration. Different forms of magic lead to various forms of physical and mental decline. The primary characters introduced include:

• Emery: Possesses the ability to have premonitions but at the cost of his own life force.
• Raven: Struggles with his degeneration, particularly his inability to use Providence cards effectively.

The narrative leaves off with Elspeth being tortured by Hoth and ultimately succumbing to her own magical degeneration, merging her identity with the Nightmare and being imprisoned in Castlestone's dungeon.

---

Writing Style and Tone

Kim praises Rachel Gillig's writing as "spooky and creepy," perfectly capturing the fall's eerie ambiance. She describes the book as a "grim fairy tale," rich with gothic romance and old-school fable elements reminiscent of dark nursery rhymes like "Ring Around the Rosie." The integration of poetic, rhyming schemes throughout the book enhances its fairy-tale-like quality, adding depth to the haunting narrative.

---

Character Analysis

The Shepherd King (Taxis)

Anna and Kim delve into the complex character of Taxis, the Shepherd King, who is both the ruler and the looming Nightmare. Through vivid flashbacks, they explore his transformation from a benevolent king motivated by good intentions to a detached, power-hungry figure willing to sacrifice everything for more Providence cards. Notable moments include:

• Taxis’ Humanity: Despite his dark transformation, brief glimpses of his humanity emerge, especially in his interactions with Elspeth.

  • Quote [18:08]: Anna recounts, “He wrapped me in his arms, holding me against his armored chest like a father would a child. ‘One day you will be nothing more than a memory, Elspeth Spindle. But not yet. Don’t leave me alone with these fools.’”

• Leadership and Guilt: Taxis wrestles with guilt over his family’s legacy and his detached leadership style, often reflecting on missed opportunities to connect with his children.

Raven Yu

Raven emerges as a steadfast and loyal character, bearing similarities to Chaol from other fantasy lore. His unwavering dedication to his friends and family, coupled with his internal struggles and sense of failure, make him a relatable and compelling protagonist.

• Raven’s Journey: His quest to collect the Twin Alders card is driven by a desire to lift the mist and end the infection, contrasting sharply with Taxis' insatiable thirst for power.
  • Quote [28:08]: Kim observes, “The Shepherd King is having to wait centuries to right his wrongs, but Raven makes different choices. He chooses to protect rather than to power.”

Elspeth/Nightmare

Originally perceived as a victim, Elspeth’s transformation into the Nightmare adds layers of complexity to her character. Her shared existence with Taxis blurs the lines between victim and antagonist, creating a multifaceted antagonist whose motivations are deeply intertwined with past traumas and familial bonds.

• Dual Identity: The merging of Elspeth and the Nightmare introduces a rich dynamic, exploring themes of identity and control.
  • Quote [05:05]: “They are literally capable of being separated, but the Nightmare is really the one in charge in this book.”

Elm and Ione

Transitioning from side characters, Elm and Ione take center stage in "Two Twisted Crowns." Their journey to find Ione’s maiden card, which has the power to heal, underscores themes of love, sacrifice, and resilience.

• Elm’s Devotion: Elm's selfless acts, such as bringing dresses for Ione and willingly using the Nightmare card to enter her mind, highlight his deep compassion and strength.

  • Quote [33:34]: Kim shares, “Elm notices these things, and he automatically fixes them on his own without being told or asked.”

• Ione’s Struggle: Ione’s battle to reclaim her emotions and her maiden card mirrors Elspeth’s own struggles with magic and identity, creating a poignant parallel.

Hoth

Portrayed as the epitome of evil, Hoth’s actions—forcing Ione to hide her maiden card and brutally attacking her—make him one of the most reviled characters in the series.

• Antagonistic Force: Hoth represents unchecked power and cruelty, serving as a direct antagonist to the protagonists’ quest for peace and healing.
  • Quote [49:55]: “He is so brutal. Hoth brutally pushes Ione out a window, leaving her to die alone.”

---

Plot Overview

"Two Twisted Crowns" builds upon the foundation laid in the first book, expanding the narrative into two intertwined journeys:

1. Raven, Jesper, and the Nightmare's Quest: Tasked by Taxis to find the Twin Alders card, this trio ventures into the magical woods, facing internal and external conflicts. Raven grapples with his sense of failure in saving Elspeth, while the Nightmare struggles with remnants of his former self.

2. Elm and Ione's Search: Left behind at Castlestone, Elm and Ione work to locate Ione’s maiden card, which holds the key to healing and possibly lifting the mist. Their journey is fraught with emotional challenges, particularly as Ione battles the residual effects of the maiden card’s magic.

Key plot points include:

• The Separated Paths: The narrative alternates between the two groups, emphasizing their respective struggles and growth.
• Confrontations with Hoth: Hoth emerges repeatedly as a formidable antagonist, culminating in brutal confrontations that test the protagonists' resolve.
• Sacrifices and Alliances: The collection of Providence cards requires significant sacrifices, pushing characters to their emotional and physical limits.
• Climactic Battle: The finale features an epic showdown in the mystical woods, where themes of balance, sacrifice, and redemption come to the fore.

---

Themes and Analysis

Two Twisted Crowns weaves several profound themes throughout its narrative:

Balance of Power

The struggle between Taxis and Raven embodies the classic conflict between unchecked ambition and selfless protection. The balance of power is not only political but also metaphysical, as represented by the Providence cards and their effects.

• Quote [28:02]: Anna reflects, “The Shepherd King is commanding the trees to attack, representing his unwavering power, while Raven counters with his own steadfastness.”

Sacrifice and Redemption

Characters are often faced with impossible choices that require personal sacrifices for the greater good. Elm’s willingness to sacrifice himself and Raven’s ultimate sacrifice for Elspeth underline the depth of their characters and the narrative’s emotional core.

• Quote [34:05]: Kim recounts, “Elm is giving up his chance to be king to save his loved ones, highlighting his selflessness.”

Friendship and Love

The evolving relationships, particularly between Elm and Ione, and the deep bond between Raven and the Nightmare, explore the transformative power of love and friendship in overcoming darkness and adversity.

• Quote [43:49]: Anna shares, “Elm and Ione’s relationship provides moments of tenderness and joy amidst the darkness, showcasing the healing power of love.”

---

Favorite Moments and Quotes

Flights of Fantasy highlights several poignant and memorable moments from "Two Twisted Crowns":

• Taxis’ Paternal Moment: The Shepherd King’s tender declaration to Elspeth underscores his lingering humanity.

  • [18:08]: “He wrapped me in his arms, holding me against his armored chest like a father would a child. ‘One day you will be nothing more than a memory, Elspeth Spindle. But not yet. Don’t leave me alone with these fools.’”

• Elm’s Acts of Service: Elm’s thoughtful actions, such as providing dresses for Ione, exemplify his unwavering support and love.

  • [33:34]: “Elm notices these things, and he automatically fixes them on his own without being told or asked.”

• Climactic Battle in the Woods: The epic showdown involving magical trees coming to life, Ione’s empowerment through the maiden card, and Elm’s final sacrifice create a riveting climax.

  • [59:11]: “The trees come alive, and it is so cool. It's very fitting... Fairy tale.”

• Emotional Farewell: The heartbreaking final conversation between Elspeth and Taxis encapsulates the series' overarching themes of loss and redemption.

  • [67:41]: “Our voices echoing listless through the dark. A final note, an eternal farewell, and the monster they became.”

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Anna and Kim wrap up the episode by expressing their deep emotional connection to the book’s conclusion. They highlight the satisfying resolution, the profound character growth, and the beautiful intertwining of love and sacrifice that Rachel Gillig masterfully orchestrates. The hosts commend the book’s ability to balance high-stakes fantasy with intimate, character-driven moments, leaving listeners both satisfied and yearning for more.

• Quote [71:27]: Anna shares, “I felt bereft in a way because it was over and I missed the characters, but I also had a sense of ease and I was at peace with the ending.”

---

Teasers for Future Episodes

To celebrate the richness of "Two Twisted Crowns," Flights of Fantasy announces a special Patreon-exclusive mini-episode dedicated to favorite moments from the book. Fans can expect an in-depth exploration of beloved scenes, additional insights, and exclusive content by supporting the podcast through Patreon.

---

Final Remarks

Anna and Kim encourage listeners to subscribe, follow them on Instagram at @FlightsOfFantasyPodcast, and support the podcast on Patreon to stay updated on future episodes and exclusive content. They conclude with their signature sign-off, wishing everyone "cheers and happy reading."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Anna [18:08]: “He wrapped me in his arms, holding me against his armored chest like a father would a child. ‘One day you will be nothing more than a memory, Elspeth Spindle. But not yet. Don’t leave me alone with these fools.’”

2. Kim [33:34]: “Elm notices these things, and he automatically fixes them on his own without being told or asked.”

3. Anna [28:09]: “The Shepherd King is having to wait centuries to right his wrongs, but Raven makes different choices. He chooses to protect rather than to power.”

4. Anna [67:41]: “I knew who I was without him. I was more than the girl, the king, and the monster of Blunder's dark, twisted tale. I was its author.”

---

Episode Support:
Support Flights of Fantasy by visiting their Patreon. Exclusive content and special shoutouts await our generous supporters!

---

Follow Us:
Stay connected and join our magical community on Instagram.

Transcript

[Anna]

Welcome to Flights of Fantasy, your podcast book club. I am one of your hosts, Anna and I am joined today by my book bestie, Kim.

[Kim]

Hello.

[Anna]

We are so excited because we are finally this episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Big smiles, rocking tunes and epic drinks.

[Kim]

Dutch Bros is all about you.

[Anna]

Choose from a variety of customizable handcrafted.

[Kim]

Beverages like our Rebel energy drinks, coffees, teas and more. Download the Dutch Bros app for a free medium drink plus find your nearest shop, order ahead and start earning rewards offer valid for new app users only. Free medium drink Reward upon registration 14.

[Anna]

Day expiration terms apply.

[Kim]

See DutchBros.com this is what you do when you've just found that statement handbag.

[Anna]

On ebay and you want to build.

[Kim]

An entire wardrobe around it. You start selling to keep buying. Yep. On ebay over that all black everything phase, list it and buy all the colors. Feeling more vintage than ever. It's out with the new and in with the pre loved. Next thing you know you've refreshed your wardrobe basically without spending a dime. Yeah, ebay the place to buy and sell new pre loved vintage and rare.

[Anna]

Fashion reading the final book in the One Dark. It's not really called the One Dark Window Duology, but it's Two Twisted Crowns by Rachel Gillig. And we read One Dark Window last fall and then she was just like iron flame and CC3 and it just got so busy and it just felt like such a spooky read that we just were like we couldn't read it in the spring or the summer. We needed to wait for the fall. We're so excited to finally be covering Two Twisted Crowns. And Kim, will you kick us off with some Patreon shout outs?

[Kim]

I would love to do that. So for this episode we are gonna be shouting out some of our tier two book bitches. If you aren't familiar or you're just tuning in for the first time, that is one of the benefits for our tier two book Bitches. They get a shout out in one of our episodes along with so much more on our Patreon. So if you're interested in that, of course that link is always in our show notes. But for this episode we are going to be shouting out Jenny Brill, Danette Bollinger, Sarah Frances Stubbs, Patricia Long and Kimber Ballard.

[Anna]

Hi guys. Thank you so much. We appreciate everything and you guys, we're repetitive but it really makes what we do possible.

[Kim]

Totally. I mean we really genuinely could not have continue to do this for this long without you guys. And your support. So we really, truly, so much just appreciate it and love you all so much, and we're so thankful that you guys are here, but let's dive in.

[Anna]

Okay, so before we do our spoiler warning, I'm going to just do, you know, for listeners, if you needed, like, a quick little recap. It's not even really a recap. It's just if you just need a refresher on the world and where we left off at the end of book one, you can listen to this. No spoilers in this section going into book two. And then I'll do a spoiler warning after I'm done.

[Kim]

Perfect.

[Anna]

Okay, so we're not gonna spend too much time on the world building because we kind of already covered that all in one dark window in our first episode. But just as a reminder, we are in blunder. A town shrouded in magical mist that if inhaled, you become infected. And the infection, if it doesn't kill you, leaves a person gifted with a type of magic. Now, you may be thinking, that doesn't sound too bad, but the magic has a downside. It leads to degeneration. Now, this looks different based on the type of magic you emery, for example, you know, when he touches someone, he's able to have a premonition. And I guess somehow that sucks the life force from him. He seems to be dying at a quicker pace than other people who are infected. But, like, whereas Raven's degeneration, on the other hand, is just his continued inability to be able to use providence cards or have them used against him, save for the mirror and the nightmare card. Obviously, the only way to protect yourself from the mists is to carry a familiar, which is a token from an animal. It can be like a bracelet made out of horsehair or a rabbit' et cetera. So with that being said, we left off in the last book with Elspeth being tortured by Hoth and finally having to embrace her own magical degeneration, which is, you know, basically allowing the nightmare to take over her body and mind completely. And she kind of. She doesn't die, but she gets, like, put to rest. Basically goes night, night.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And Elspeth, AKA the nightmare, are being held in Castlestone's dungeon because when they're captured, she was infected and she's still Elspeth's body. So everyone, not everyone quite understands what's happening. They just think that Elspeth basically almost murdered the heir to the throne. So the nightmare gets locked away into the castle stone dungeon and the nightmare is Also the Shepherd King, we find out at the end of the book. And he has promised to help find the final Providence card, the Twin Alders, because he is the only one who knows where it is. So they can unite the deck on Solstice and finally end the magical mist and infection. And also, listeners, just going forward, because the Elspeth and the Nightmare are basically one and the same intertwined in this book. If we refer to one, obviously the other one is there.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

They are literally capable of being separated, but the nightmare is really the one in charge in this book.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

And now, spoilers from here on out for Two Twisted Crowns. Kim, can you take us away with writing style?

[Kim]

I would love to take you away. So this book was every bit as spooky and creepy as we thought it was going to be. And I am so glad, actually, that we waited to read this because it was just giving all the fall spooky, witchy vibes. This is the perfect epitome of a gothic romantic scene. It was very grim fairy tale. I texted Anna multiple times while reading it, being like, this is literally a fairy tale. But, like, old school. Not Disney princess.

[Anna]

Not Disney princesses. This is like, where people lose hands.

[Kim]

Yes, yes, exactly. Very creepy. The nightmare is the embarrassment embodiment of those fables that parents used to tell their kids to behave or to teach them a lesson.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

This line. Oh, it. I mean, it hits for so many reasons, but this line says. And now you know that every terrible thing that happened in Blunder took place long before I handed Brutus Rowan a scythe. It happened because 500 years ago, a boy wore a crown, had every abundance in the world, but always asked for more.

[Anna]

And, like, that's his story.

[Kim]

Yeah, it is.

[Anna]

It's so sad. I can't wait to get into it.

[Kim]

I know. It is. It is really sad. But there were some actual horror aspects to this story.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

Like, the first book, I think, was also, like, one of the tags was horror. And I was kind of like, I don't really agree with that. This book, I'm like, I sure do. I sure do see it. And we're really being creepy. We're really taking creepy to that next level.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

The physicality and mannerisms that Rachel wrote the Nightmare. And then also later, the spirit of the wood.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

In the dungeons. Elspeth in the dungeons. Because remember, like Anna said, this is the nightmare. But it's Elspeth's body.

[Anna]

Oh, yes, yes.

[Kim]

So imagine this dirty, creepy girl. She has, like, stooped shoulders and she's Clicking her fingers and it's almost claw. Like in the click, click, click, which is always three times. Like the taps for the providence cards.

[Anna]

I loved it.

[Kim]

Excellent note, Anna. Excellent note. And like, her dark hair also, she's like, disgustingly dirty. She's still covered in blood from, like almost killing haw.

[Anna]

This girl needs a bath.

[Kim]

You know what she needs, Anna?

[Anna]

She needs a bath.

[Kim]

There needs to be a bath time. Desperately needs a bath.

[Anna]

There wasn't one mentioned, Kim.

[Kim]

No, there certainly was not.

[Anna]

In fact, I'm pretty sure doesn't Jesper say or Elspeth was like, oh, my God, you smell.

[Kim]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna]

Like, she's like, can you please, like, wash your hands? Yes.

[Kim]

She was like, I cannot imagine how bad I probably smell right now. Like, you. You haven't bathed me at all. I forgot that at all.

[Anna]

She's like, oh, my God, I smell so bad. And the nightmare literally says something like. It makes it easier on Raven Yu because he stops looking at me longingly.

[Kim]

Yeah. The less I look like you, the dirtier I look. He's less inclined to be like, elspeth.

[Anna]

Elspeth. Anyway, sorry, keep going.

[Kim]

So she's disgustingly dirty. Oh, her eyes are now yellow. So creepy. Her dark hair is like falling over her face. Like the. Some of the lines, Anna, where it was like, she's like stooped over. And then she like turns her head like this to the side. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I don't. I don't like it. It's giving grudge and I don't want it. I don't want it. I don't like it. So creepy. But the way Rachel wrote it was so visual. You could. I mean, almost too. Well, one might say too effective. And then obviously the spirit of the wood, like, puts her clawed hand into her stomach. She cuts part of her stomach out to pull.

[Anna]

That was really gross. Almost sent you because I was obviously ahead of you. I. Kim, heads up. Yeah, I didn't know how to say it without, like, ruining any. What would you say, by the way? There is like a person who disembowels themselves.

[Kim]

Yeah, but like, it's.

[Anna]

You had been like, I'm sorry, I need more info.

[Kim]

I need more. Tell me more things. And you're like, I actually can't. But just read on. It's okay. That was so creepy and so gross. Like I said, effective writing but very, very creepy. And of course, we also have these rhyming, you know, schemes poems throughout the book that really sets the tone and that's what gave it the fairy tale aspect for me. But like creepy fairy tale.

[Anna]

Yeah. Like old nursery rhymes.

[Kim]

Like old school.

[Anna]

Not Mother Goose.

[Kim]

Yes. Like Ring around the Rosie was actually like.

[Anna]

Yes. Ring around the Rosie. Which listeners go Google what that's from.

[Kim]

If you don't know, if you don't know, prepare to have your day ruined. Okay, so sorry. So this really sets the tone and going to try to say this without crying, but.

[Anna]

Oh, listen, listeners, apologies ahead of time. We might cry throughout the episode.

[Kim]

We might. So Taxis, AKA the shepherd King, says this to Elspeth when he finds her on the shore in his mind at the be of the story. And he says, shall I tell you a story? And she says, what story? And he says, ours. Dear one. Pin that for later. Okay.

[Anna]

Pin it.

[Kim]

And this is the story, of course. There once was a girl, clever and good, who tarried in shadow in the depths of the wood. There also was a king, a shepherd by his crook, who reigned over magic and wrote the old book. The two were together. So the two were the same. The girl, the king, and the monster they became.

[Anna]

I know. Hit all of this for later, but it's really. It sets the tone.

[Kim]

It really does.

[Anna]

But that's been our through poem throughout the book. Two books.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

You know, that's what ties Elspeth and the Nightmare together.

[Kim]

It is. The way she has that full circle moment is really something.

[Anna]

I'll try to get through it.

[Kim]

Yeah, no promises, everybody, but. Okay, so I'm gonna kind of set the scene, like get us a little bit into the story and just kind of tell you what is going on overall. So for the first few chapters of the book, we are really setting the two respective journeys that our characters are going to go on. The king, the Rowan King, is allowing Raven and Jesper and the Nightmare to go find the twin altars card kind of go on that epic saga because even though the king is a drunken evil asshole, he actually does want to lift the mist and end the infection.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

And so he's like, okay, fine, you can go. Elm and Ione, on the other hand, are stuck at Castle Stone because if we remember, Ione is engaged to Hoth.

[Anna]

Feelings.

[Kim]

Yeah, feelings. But the king believes her to be a traitor because remember, her family is the one that hid Elspeth's infection the entire time.

[Anna]

Right.

[Kim]

And Elm is able to save Ione from the dungeons by basically threatening his father with court gossip. And the optics of what it would look like for Hoth's betrothed being seen as a traitor.

[Anna]

Right.

[Kim]

And so he basically allows Ione to just be in the castle, but not in the dungeons. And so while Raven, Jesper, and the nightmare go off into the woods, Elm stays behind to try and help Ione find her missing maiden card, which is slowly stripping her ability to feel any kind of emotions. Oh, poor Ione.

[Anna]

I can't wait to talk about them.

[Kim]

I know. Me too.

[Anna]

Okay, so we are gonna kind of use our characters as a means to get through the plot, because I feel like this book was. I mean, yes, obviously there's a plot and a journey, but I feel like the characters really are what drove everybody's motivation. Yes. So we're gonna kick off with, of course, the Nightmare, the Shepherd King. Of course, our main dude. I mean, he's. Yeah, he is. He's our main dude.

[Kim]

He is. Yeah, totally.

[Anna]

What? I mean, I know we liked him in book one, but he's so complex and he's so well written. And I love that we get to know more of him in this book. We only got to see him and his relationship with Elspeth in the last book, and he was sassy, but there was a dark side to him, and we weren't quite sure which way he was going to go. Was he going to be all evil? He seemed to care about Elspeth, though. And, you know, I think in this book we get to see flashbacks, and I think that's important because we get to know him more. And it's clear through those flashbacks that he was a king, a man with good intentions.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

You know, like, he set out, just like every fairy tale, every fable, he set out to help his kingdom, to help his family. You know, he created the first card out of, like, need. It wasn't. I don't think it initially started out as wanting, just more and more. But as it grew, the greed feeds the greed. Right. It's like a cyclical effect. And the problem was he was never satisfied. Every time he would get something, there was, oh, but what if? What if I could have this? And with every card creation, he loses more of himself until he finally makes the Nightmare card. And I think he thinks that's the last one. And the thing that he has to give up is his soul. And he's already kind of started to pull away from his family. For example, he makes the maiden card to help Tilly. Right. Tilly is a child who can't touch anybody. By touching other things, she hurts herself, and so he makes a maiden card to save her. So I say that because it was to Help his child. But then when he gives a nightmare card, he has to give up his soul. And we start to see him be so much more detached from everything around him. You know, I mean, he doesn't join them for dinner. The flip side to that, though, is the mist is getting worse because the spirit of the woods is supposed to be the only magic. And he was gifted with these Providence cards to help his people. But the problem is they're now becoming dependent on the cards rather than on, like, I'm going to say that the spirit of the wood basically represents, like, the godlike creature, right? Like, she. That is the person who everyone is supposed to be paying their dues to and respecting and praying to or whatever. Worshiping. And now that Matt is turning towards the Providence cards and the mist is getting thicker and thicker and more people are becoming infected. And his response is, well, I need one more card. I need a card to lift the mist. And that's the Twin Alders. But with a cruel twist of fate, the thing he had to give up was his ability to use the cards. So he can't even lift the mist. Here's this card that's supposed to be able to fix everything, and he can't use them. And it's like, then what was it all for? What was everything for? And we, of course, learned that also what he had to give up was his sister. And it's like the balance, Right. That I think that we get to see throughout the book. And we're gonna keep seeing that about the spirit constantly finding a way to create this balance.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

And so now the Shepherd King is having to wait years, Hundreds of years, 500 years to right his wrong. But anyways, all of that. And again, what makes him so interesting is we still get to see these moments of his humanity.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

And I think earliest one that stuck out to me was when he realizes that Elspeth is missing in his mind. He can't access her. Right. Like, he's locked her away. And in this, like, shore that he's created. And we first see it, Raven notes, he seems to be withdrawn, more withdrawn than the nightmare already is.

[Kim]

Unusual.

[Anna]

Unusual. And it's not until they've passed their first journey and cross over that lake. That's, like, terrifying. And this is why Kim and I don't swim in dark waters.

[Kim]

That's right. Exactly.

[Anna]

Absolutely not. Nope, Nope.

[Kim]

I would have never gotten in that water. I would have said.

[Anna]

I would have said good luck. I'll be right here.

[Kim]

I'll be right here.

[Anna]

Huh? I'll send up a flare.

[Kim]

Yeah. If I need you, I'll guide you back here. I'll stay with the supplies. If I need to. I will watch the supplies. I'm not going in that dark water.

[Anna]

Take this rope, rig it across a tree and I'll roll it across.

[Kim]

Sure. I'll do whatever you need to do.

[Anna]

Or, you know, better yet, roll me across.

[Kim]

There you go. Let's jig something up so that I'm not getting in that water. So what are our options?

[Anna]

It's not happening.

[Kim]

Literally. Would never. No. You'd have to knock me out.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

And someone would have to just bob me somehow had to put a life jacket on me and then just bob me along because consciously I'm not getting in that. You can't see, Anna. You can't.

[Anna]

I can't swim in a lake. I'm sure there are so many people laughing at us right now. Like, I literally, if we went to camp, I would be like, you guys are crazy. Go in this like, weird infected water. If you're not getting eaten by a shark because they exist in lakes.

[Kim]

They do.

[Anna]

Then you're going to have some skin infection that eats your skin away. Like I'm so freaked out by lakes.

[Kim]

But you know what's also in lakes actually? Snakes.

[Anna]

Snakes. Water snakes and moccasins. They will hurt you.

[Kim]

Exactly, Anna. So that's a real thing?

[Anna]

That's a real thing.

[Kim]

You know, the sharks might be in our mind, but those snakes are actually very true.

[Anna]

Very, very real.

[Kim]

And alligators as well.

[Anna]

Alligators. We live in the south.

[Kim]

Uh huh.

[Anna]

Like you couldn't catch me dead in a swamp. I would be dead. I would die.

[Kim]

Exactly.

[Anna]

Because why an alligator would eat me.

[Kim]

That's right.

[Anna]

Thank you for coming to our TED Talk.

[Kim]

Thank you. That's it.

[Anna]

Okay, so we crossed the magical lake. Peter's like bleeding out from some wound because he, you know, wasn't smart and went in the lake.

[Kim]

He went in the lake.

[Anna]

Went in the lake.

[Kim]

There you go.

[Anna]

But the nightmare's freaking out. Raven's like, nightmare, help us. And the nightmare is totally lost. He has gone so deep into himself and he's screaming for Elspeth. And it's the first time we see genuine concern. I mean, not the first time, but he does showcase concern for Elspeth. But this time it's different. And he finally finds her and he's dressed as Taxus in her. When she sees him, he's dressed as taxes. It's her pov. It's interesting. She's the Only first person. Everybody else is third person pov.

[Kim]

Oh yeah, you're right.

[Anna]

And he's dressed as Taxus with his golden Shepherd King armor.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

He wrapped me in his arms, holding me against his armored chest like a father would a child. One day you will be nothing more than a memory, Elspeth Spindle. But not yet. Don't leave me alone with these fools. It's so sweet and poignant, but it's also his voice, you know? Don't leave me alone with these fools. Oh, it's so beautiful.

[Kim]

He was so funny in this book. He was so funny.

[Anna]

So funny.

[Kim]

Like the sassiness was at an all time high and I loved it.

[Anna]

I do want to say one thing about his relationship with Elspeth. I feel like he sees Elspeth as a do over, you know, like he couldn't be there for his kids. And I think he hasn't had a choice but to be in Elspeth's mind since she touched the nightmare card at such a young age. But I think he's been able to see her grow up the way he was enabled to see his children grow up.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

And there's another quote later where he references, like, being a father, how he wanted that with her. And it's just Rachel's done such a great job with writing his character.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Anna]

Because he is so harsh and he puts up such a strong kind of, you know, I don't care about anything, you know, the outward appearance. But really I think he is struggling with. He does care. Okay, so moving on to the sassiness. This was such a great. Again, another layer to him that Rachel has created.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And I love this part when after they've crossed the mirrored lake, they get captured by this group of infected people who live in the woods. And there's that battle that has to happen with Jesper and Raven and Gors. And they're tied up to these posts and Raven's like, checking on everybody. He's like, is everybody okay? Like, how is everybody? And then the nightmare just goes, well, I'm tied to a post with a grating headache and the dimmest use in five centuries. Never been better.

[Kim]

Oh my God.

[Anna]

I love how he's like, you are all inept. You are stupid.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like I.

[Kim]

You can walk. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

[Anna]

And then like, he always pauses because Elspeth is screaming at him in his head. And he's like, well, what do you want me to do, Elspeth? I am surrounded by idiots, surrounded by.

[Kim]

Incompetence at every Turn. I am doing my best here.

[Anna]

So funny. It's just such a great, like, it's so funny. I know. At one point, he's speaking to Ione at the end, and she's like, would it kill you to be civil? This is what Elsebeth says. And he's like, well, I'm already dead. But, yes, decidedly, yes, it would kill me.

[Kim]

Love that. Yes, decidedly, it would. It would be too much.

[Anna]

It would kill me if I wasn't already dead. It would kill me.

[Kim]

It would kill me. So funny. Yeah, I totally agree. Another layer to his character that does make him a little more complex. It makes him seem more human.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Rather than this just, like, creepy kind of being that lives in Elspeth's body. It really made him seem like a fully fleshed out character.

[Anna]

Yeah. He's not just a king. Right. He's not just on this pedestal up here. And he's not just a scary nightmare.

[Kim]

No.

[Anna]

There's parts to him that you're just like, he's endearing in a weird way.

[Kim]

Totally. It's odd, but it's true.

[Anna]

It works.

[Kim]

He is endearing.

[Anna]

If it didn't work, we wouldn't have been sobbing at the end. But anyways, Kim, tell us about Elspeth.

[Kim]

Okay, so I'm not gonna lie. I really did Ms. Elspeth in this book. I felt like we obviously really didn't get her much at all. We'll get to Ione. But Ione was arguably the main female character in this book. Loved her.

[Anna]

I would agree with. You.

[Kim]

Loved her. But I did miss Elspeth because we spent the whole first book bonding with her, getting to know her character, and then she's basically gone the entire book. But, yeah, it did end up working. I will say, like Anna mentioned at the beginning of the book, she is locked away on this kind of distant shore that he created, and she can't get out. And this is when he can't find her.

[Anna]

Right.

[Kim]

But what it did that was very smart on Rachel's end was it allowed us to learn about the nightmare's past and the creation of the Providence cards using Elspeth's pov.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Because we, the reader, we trust Elspeth. Like I said, we got to know her. So seeing the flashbacks through her eyes and then knowing her relationship with the nightmare, it really allowed us to find that humanity that we talked about in the Shepherd King. And these flashbacks, you guys, were just heartbreaking. I mean, we meet his children, and we see him really pulling away from his family and all he cares about is these Providence cards. He's totally disinterested in his real life, his family ruling. He wants nothing to do with that. He doesn't want to be bothered, Right. By having to sit on a throne and rule. And sweet baby Tilly just comes and wants him to sit on the swing with her, and he. He just dismisses her. And I think, as moms, anything with young kids, it really hits us differently. And I wanted to be like, you go swing with that baby. How dare you.

[Anna]

It's hard because it hits you, because there have been times we've all, you, me, Christina. I mean, I guess Christina's son is a little younger, but I know you and I have discussed this, that our kids, like, we. We didn't work really, when they were born, and now that we both. We have this podcast, and it's. It's a lot of work. You know, we're working more.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

I mean, this past weekend, I was working. I felt so badly. I was working every day writing the outline, and my husband was on call at the hospital, so it was just me at home. And I kept having to say, I'm so sorry. Like, mommy has to go work. And it's hard because it's like, then they turn to you and they're like, well, can you just play a game of checkers with me?

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And I thought about Tilly.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And I literally was like, you know what? I can. I can.

[Kim]

I.

[Anna]

Can I sit down and play a game of checkers with you?

[Kim]

I will. I will take 15, 20 minutes. We will play a game of checkers. And then, like, it is so hard. And. And again, like, Rachel writes it so well to, like, every parent can relate to that, because every parent has had that moment where you are trying to get something done. And your child, after a certain age, can communicate with you that they want you to pay attention to them.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And you can't always do it. Like Anna said, you try and say yes as much as you can, but sometimes there really are things that, like, have to get done, and that's okay, but it's hard. As a parent, you feel that guilt, and he doesn't. The Shepherd King doesn't really feel that guilt.

[Anna]

He doesn't have a soul.

[Kim]

He's not unkind to her. He's dismissive. He's not cruel, but he's not caring. There's no warmth to him.

[Anna]

Right.

[Kim]

And we also meet Bennett, which is the Shepherd King's oldest son, and Bennett and Tilly are the only two of his Children that actually have the magic, the spirit of the woods inside of them. There's four middle boys that do not have it. And so Bennett comes into his office and says, you're with us, but you're never really here, are you, Father? Oh, that line. Oh, that is rough.

[Anna]

That's really hard.

[Kim]

It was so sad. And something Anna actually figured out. There's an Easter egg in the flashback with Bennett. Bennett's degeneration matches Raven, and he is described as bird. Like, Yup, Raven is a bird. But also the nightmare. Raven is a type of bird, but the nightmare also calls Raven bird. The whole book, like, bird, you dumb bird. Do you really mean me to do this, you dumb bird? And it was so interesting. There was that first little inkling of, like, that's interesting. Yeah, he kind of sounds a little bit like Raven.

[Anna]

Yeah, that was cool. I mean, we suspect, I think, in our theories, at the end of book one, we were like, I feel like Raven is related to the Shepherd King because he lives where the chamber was. It's his family's home.

[Kim]

Totally. Basically, yes. Elspeth's POV has taken a back seat, and instead, it's basically just used as a foil for the Shepherd King and kind of maintaining that connection to his humanity, which I think was very important.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Because like Anna said in the beginning, it really showed you that he was doing it for good. He. He wasn't evil. I mean, he wasn't being evil. He wasn't trying to become super wealthy. He was trying to help his people.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And you see, he doesn't go through every card, but you do see, like, there were real reasons for wanting to make these cards, and it was for the good. It wasn't to be like, I'm gonna be the mightiest king ever, and I'm gonna have all this power. It was really a genuine reason. But like you said, it's like it was never enough for him.

[Anna]

No.

[Kim]

There was always that next card that he wanted, and he was willing to give away everything.

[Anna]

It's like he got lost.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's like you get so far deep, it's like a lie.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Once you get so far into the lie, you don't know the way out, you know, and that's what it kind of feels like.

[Kim]

Yeah. It was really well done. I did miss Elspeth, but I don't see another way that we could have done learning about him without her kind of needing to take that step back.

[Anna]

And I think it's similar with Raven. You know, I think Elspeth taking a backseat kind of. I mean, Raven was much more prominent, obviously, because he has his own pov and he's essential character in solving this. But I think we see Raven without Elspeth for the first time. Really?

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

We said this in book one, but he really. I mean, he gives us Chaol vibes. Like, it's the best of Chaol.

[Kim]

Yeah, it is.

[Anna]

There's such an unwavering sense of loyalty to his friends and family, and he'll do anything to protect them.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I think his biggest struggle in this book is feeling like he failed them. The one thing that he has always prided himself in, he was unable to do. He keeps saying, like, if I had only arrived 10 minutes earlier, I would have been able to save Elspeth. I would have been able to stop all of this. And it's just. It's simply not true. Like, Elspeth eventually would have been taken over by the nightmare. And she says to him, like, you're not allowed to blame yourself for a second of those 10 minutes. It was magic that made me disappear. Terrible, inevitable degeneration. It wasn't anyone's fault, but I'm so sorry it happened. I would have liked a little more time with you. Oh. Because, of course, at this point, we're like, we don't know if she's coming back or not.

[Kim]

Right, Right, right. Yes.

[Anna]

Like, you know, we're all holding out hope.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

But, you know, she tries. Like, I think we see him really struggle with that, you know, throughout the book, this sense of guilt and, like, the weight that it carries. And later, you know, he's built up these walls to protect himself. He's had to keep people at arm's length because he's the captain of the guard and nobody can know he's infected. And, you know, the nightmare says to him, and I thought this was a really interesting line, he says, the nightmare says you. Stone veneer is crumbling. Raven Yu, who will be waiting on the other side when the mask slips away? Captain Highwayman or beast yet unknown?

[Kim]

Ooh.

[Anna]

And I think this is interesting because I think what the nightmare is basically saying is, like, we're going on a journey, and when you come out the other side, you're going to be different. How are you going to let this affect you? Are you going to remain the captain, the steadfast, loyal, like, not that he was. He was always undermining the king. But are you going to come out being that person? Are you going to embrace the highwayman, the person who was the vigilante the person who was riding out with Elm and trying to collect the Providence cards, Or are you going to be something else? Are you gonna come out and be something totally different and unexpected? You have to make that choice. And I think it's very much. There's like. It's like a mirror to the Shepherd King in some ways. I think the nightmare looks at Raven and sees himself.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

And not just because he's a descendant, but Raven has to go on this journey with him side by side. That's not a choice. But Raven makes different choices. He makes better choices. And, you know, at some point, he's offered all the power. When he sees the spirit in the woods, he's offered the throne. She says, I'll give you this Twin Elders card, but I want you take the throne. I want you to overthrow the rowans.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And his response to her, he says, you are eternal and you are magic. But I know as well as you that magic is the oldest paradox. The more power it gives you, the weaker you become. The Shepherd King taught me that.

[Kim]

M. That is so good.

[Anna]

I don't think Raven really has an ambitious bone in his body. Like, I don't think there's a part of him that really seeks out power. Him or Elm, for that matter.

[Kim]

No.

[Anna]

He has no interest in the throne. He doesn't want that. But I think that if the equivalent was off, I mean, the Shepherd King was obviously already king. But if something, you know, I'll make you emperor of the land. I think he would have taken it at any cost to get that Twin Alders card for sure. And I think that's the difference between the two of them is. And I think the nightmare sees that in Raven.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's just really well done. I don't know. And so, anyways, before we get to that part, let's go back to Castle Stone.

[Kim]

Oh, man.

[Anna]

Because I want to talk about two of our favorite characters that were, you know, side characters in book one.

[Kim]

And now they're main characters. I know. And that is, of course, Ione and Elm. So we know that Ione and Elm are back at Castle Stone. They are searching for Ione's maiden card. And Ione basically is the main female character and her journey. There were hints in book one, obviously, she started using the Maiden card. She became engaged to Hoth, and her and Elspeth fought over that. And Elspeth was really worried about Ione using the Maiden card. And we knew that there was more going on behind the scenes with Ione. And sure enough, we Were correct.

[Anna]

Yep.

[Kim]

So it turns out that Hoth, being the asshole that he is, he got her drunk and he used his scythe card on her, and he forced her to hide her maiden card somewhere so she could not tap it and undo the effects. I hate him. I.

[Anna]

He is. Yeah, Hate him.

[Kim]

Evil, disgusting garbage trash. You know who, if you know his.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

Garbage trash. Hoth.

[Anna]

Hoth. Garbage trash whore.

[Kim]

Honestly, like, maybe, like maybe one of the top garbage trash that we've read in a long time.

[Anna]

Yes, I would agree.

[Kim]

So we do find out, really interestingly, that the maiden card is not just for vanity purposes, but it can actually heal you. Like, completely.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Like, no matter what happens to you, no matter how horrible you will heal.

[Anna]

It literally will bring you back, basically from the brink of death.

[Kim]

Yes. Many times.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

Yes. And this was actually because Tilly's magic, the shepherd king's daughter, she could heal people if she touched them, but it drained her life force to do so. And so the shepherd king bartered away his own vanity, his hair, to make a card that would always keep Tilly healthy and vibrant. But of course, that purpose became lost over time, and it became something that people would use just to make themselves more beautiful. But knowing that that was why he made it just. I know it endears you to him because that's his daughter, and he. He was trying to help her, you know, and not have her be in pain.

[Anna]

And it was so well done. Bravo. Bravo, Rachel.

[Kim]

Bravo. I mean, truly. So we just keep finding out more and more really disturbing things about Hoth and Ione. So Elm and Ione keep trying to find her maiden card because she was so drunk. Hoth had gotten her so drunk, she's blackout. She was like, I can't remember.

[Anna]

This is so fucked up.

[Kim]

It's so up. And they're trying different cards. They're trying different things. Nothing is working. And so the king has decided that he's going to throw a series of feasts. And at the sixth one, Elm is going to announce his marriage. He's going to take a bride and get married.

[Anna]

Right.

[Kim]

Because at this point, they're thinking, Hoth is not going to wake up. He's going to die. Elm is going to be the heir. If only that were the case.

[Anna]

Only.

[Kim]

Okay, but we'll get there. So the king keeps forcing Ione to wear these horrible, like, shapeless dresses that make her look so terrible.

[Anna]

I just love that. That he was like, you know what's really gonna hurt her?

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Shapeless dresses.

[Kim]

Yeah. That does nothing for her.

[Anna]

Figure the girl is literally blessed by the maiden card. Like, she is ethereal at this point.

[Kim]

She's stunning, but, like, stunning, but, like.

[Anna]

Okay, put her in a sack.

[Kim]

Yeah. Like, whatever.

[Anna]

I'll show her.

[Kim]

Yeah. Like, oh, you. You're really good. Or good there. Like, okay. I just. Like, all right. That's the hill you're gonna die on. Fine. She cannot wear a beautiful dress. I draw the line in the sand. I draw the line. Okay. So Elm notices this, and so he rides all the way to Hawthorne House, and he gets some dresses of Ione's, and he brings them back to the castle, and he brings them to her so that she can feel a little more like herself.

[Anna]

I fucking love that. It's like, I love him. Acts of service.

[Kim]

We love to see it. Like, he noticed these things, and he. Without being told or asked.

[Anna]

That's what it is. Without being told. The man just did it.

[Kim]

He just did it.

[Anna]

He just did it.

[Kim]

He saw a problem, and he fixed it on his own.

[Anna]

Love it.

[Kim]

That's what we love to see. So this is a big turning point for Elm and Ione. Elm uses the nightmare card on Ione, and for obvious reasons, Ione at first is not comfortable with this at all.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

It's very intrusive. It's very vulnerable.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And she is understandably a little traumatized from having cards used on her against her will. And she finally feels safe with Elm and says, you can use the nightmare card on me. And he goes into her mind to see the night when the maiden card was hidden. And they do end up finding it. But before he can pull out, Ione says, I want to show you one more thing.

[Anna]

I was not prepared.

[Kim]

No.

[Anna]

I did not see this coming.

[Kim]

No. Ione is in Hoth's chamber, and they get into an argument, essentially. Not even actually really an argument. I think she. He's just tired of her talking.

[Anna]

Yeah. Speaking, being living, breathing.

[Kim]

And he throws her out a window. A very high window.

[Anna]

He's so casual about it.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like, he just goes, well, okay, you're done. And, like, I was like, I'm sorry. What did I just read?

[Kim]

Yeah. It was so jarring. It was so shocking. It was so barbaric.

[Anna]

Barbaric. Great word.

[Kim]

And you're like, no, I. What's happening? What am I. What's happening? He pushed her out the window, and she hits the ground. Like, here's her head crack. I won't get. I'm not gonna get graphic, but, like, it was very violent. It was very graphic. And she is laying there. And she said it was late. No one saw me fall. And it hurt too much to scream, to even whisper. I simply lay there waiting to die.

[Anna]

I mean, this poor girl. And at some point later, she says, like, I was just looking up at the moon.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That was the last thing I would see. Oh, it's awful.

[Kim]

It was so heartbreaking. And he just left her there. He left her there, obviously. Never came and checked on her. Never sent anybody to even retrieve her body. Literally just left her there and went about his business like it was nothing.

[Anna]

Well, and then it's like that same night or the next day that he attacks Elspeth.

[Kim]

Oh, yeah.

[Anna]

Yeah. And that's why he's so shocked. I was like, damn it, Ione. You should have stayed in your room. Because when I was wondering why he seemed. His eyes flared when he saw Ione, and I did not put it together after seeing this, I was like, I don't know what I was thinking. Because I was like, oh, well, nobody can access his mind, so nobody will be able to, like, heal him. I could not have been more wrong.

[Kim]

Yeah. Unfortunately, the nightmare card does allow you to talk to him. And him seeing Ione was what made him realize that the maiden card could be used to heal.

[Anna]

Yeah. Because she was supposed to be dead.

[Kim]

Because she was supposed to be dead. Little did we all know, he had essentially very much tried to kill her. So Elm sees that and is obviously like, well, he's dead. But we do recover the maiden card, and we have this beautiful scene in the throne room where Elm admits his plan to Ione about making her his. This queen. You guys, I loved it.

[Anna]

We have a throne scene.

[Kim]

We have a throne scene. You know how we love a throne scene?

[Anna]

The way she, like, straddles him on the throne and she's on top.

[Kim]

Yeah. And he, like, pulling her. And it is.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

There's heavy breathing. Like, it is so hot. And he says, I'd be your king, but always your servant, never your keeper, sir.

[Anna]

That line.

[Kim]

Wow.

[Anna]

Love it.

[Kim]

Obsessed with him.

[Anna]

I'm obsessed.

[Kim]

He is everything. I love him. Wow. Wow.

[Anna]

Oh, my God. Okay, so let's talk about for a second.

[Kim]

Let's do. Please.

[Anna]

Oh, God. He was so. We loved him in book one. I think he was just so much fun to read. He had the little skeptical yet snarky comments. But in this book, not only do we get his pov, but we finally get to know a little bit more about. About why he is the way he is. Right. Like, why did he detach from his family so much. And he says constantly, like, his home is Castle Yu, where Raven's family lives. Like, that's his family.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And we get to see in this book his childhood and how that shapes the man he became right at the time that we recover the maiden card. In that same scene, he recognizes in her vision, when he goes into her mind with the nightmare card, he knows immediately what hearth it is, and he takes her to the throne room. And he knows it because he knows it intimately from his childhood. It's the same place that Hoth would hide all of the tools and weapons of, like, torture. That when Hoth would use a scythe card on Elm, he would take him to that room and move that brick from the hearth and take out those weapons and hurt Elm and just inflict pain. Obviously, their last name is Rowan. And the nightmare says about the first Rowan king, Brutus Rowan, who, remember at first is the shepherd king's best friend. And then he ends up marrying the shepherd king's sister, heiress. And nightmare says, you know, this about him, that he had an exacting hand when it came to pain and doling out pain. And the king even says to Elm later that, you know, it's like a rite of passage, this lesson in pain that all Rowan kings and men have to learn, which is like this perpetuating circle of that I think probably has just happened over time. Right. Like the rowans.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

The scythe card that the first Buddhist king used, I think it probably must warp you over time.

[Kim]

It must, yes.

[Anna]

I mean, we know that using the scythe card for too long creates immense pain in your head and your nose bleeds. But I think more than that, it's like this power. And they get their jollies from hurting those that are smaller.

[Kim]

Absolutely. Well, I mean, there's always a cost, right, to use magic in general. I think you're right. It's not just a physical side effect. It's you become addicted to it, I'm sure.

[Anna]

And I think that's what makes the nightmare's choice. I found it really interesting that, you know, he wanted. At the end when he talks to Raven, he says, I don't want you to become king. Like, it needs to be Elm. And, you know, I think the readers have to understand Elm's childhood trauma because that's inevitably also what the nightmare recognizes in Elm. And he realizes will be the best for the people. Elm is their salvation. Not the nightmare, not Raven, not Elspeth Elm. And it's such a beautiful choice because I think normally we see the broody main male character, like Raven, or the feisty female character, Elspeth, who would be the one who would take the throne and be the quote unquote, chosen One. But I feel like this book doesn't have that normal Chosen One trope that we see in almost every one of our fantasy books. And instead, it's the skeptical, funny best friend, the secondary character who ends up being the person in the end who has never wanted power, but has that power thrust upon him. He's the one in the end that ends up healing everybody. It's a group effect. Everybody work together to make this happen.

[Kim]

Sure.

[Anna]

But it's Elm at the end that becomes the most important. And the Nightmare says, after they collect the Twin Elders Card, he turns to Raven and he says, our walk in the wood was about more than the Twin Elders card. Raven, you. There were 500 years of truth to unravel. My revenge is not merely a sword. It is scale. It is balance. I will take the throne of Blunder back. But not for you. For Elm. But poetry is as judicious as violence. And wouldn't it be poetic to undo the Rowans from within? To take that legacy of pain and watch one of their own grind it under his heel. To carve the way for a prince who never used the scythe for violence. Your cousin Elm has done more than Brutus, Rowan, or I ever could. He has left, looked pain in the eye, and refused to let it make a monster of him.

[Kim]

Oh, and that's so true. It is so true.

[Anna]

And it's so beautiful.

[Kim]

And that is just beautiful. I mean, my God, this writing, it is. It's incredible.

[Anna]

I loved it because it's like such a twist on the normal Chosen One trope, But also, that is such major growth from the nightmare. He's okay. He's basically saying, like, you know what? My family legacy, it's my fault. I fucked it up. It's not that you and the youth don't deserve to be in power. It's that it's not what's best for the kingdom. And he's choosing his people. What he always set out to do was to choose his people. And he's saying, you know what? If I overthrow the Rowans and make you king, it will create unrest. And that's not what the people of Blunder need. They need peace. And Elm is that peace.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Anna]

It's absolutely beautiful.

[Kim]

It is.

[Anna]

So anyways, we have the Maiden card. We learn all this about Elm. And I love this moment where finally, Ione Gets to release herself from the maiden card. And I think Elm is like nervous. He's like, do you want to be alone? And she brings him to her room. I think it's. Yeah, it's her room. And she taps it three times. And slowly he starts to catalog how her body goes back to being herself. And the first thing he notices are her freckles.

[Kim]

Her freckles. I know.

[Anna]

And he says there were not enough pages in all the books Elm had read in all the libraries he'd wandered in, all the notebooks he'd scrawled that could measure, denote or describe just how beautiful she was. There you are. He says.

[Kim]

Oh my God. Oh my God.

[Anna]

I love it so much.

[Kim]

And he just. I love it. It's so beautiful.

[Anna]

And the way that he gives her space. She crumples and falls and she feels all of the feelings, all of the things that like, were done to her that were locked away because the maiden card took away her ab. To feel those emotions. And she feels them all at once. And then he's so sweet. Cuz she like, asks for space. And he immediately gives it to her. But he sits outside her door just in case. And then when she opens it, he like, falls into her.

[Kim]

He's been crying too, because he's sobbing.

[Anna]

Oh, it's gorgeous. I love them so much.

[Kim]

I love them too. Let's talk about them as a couple, because we've talked about them individually, but them together, what was just absolutely beautiful. I remember from book one specifically, we were immediately picking up on vibes between them.

[Anna]

Oh yes, major vibes.

[Kim]

Vibes were happening. And we were like, we need to see more of Elm and Ione.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

Well, we got it. And we freaking loved it.

[Anna]

Ate it up.

[Kim]

Ate it up with a spoon. It felt so natural. Elm immediately in book one was just completely infatuated with. With Ione from the beginning. And I think the choice to have Ione under the influence of the maiden card was actually so smart because it made them have to. It made her really have to work harder to trust and open up.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

Because Ione could share her thoughts, but she can't be vulnerable like Elm can. Her heart is literally shielded from all emotions like we've said. But she can feel one thing and that would be desire and attraction.

[Anna]

I love that. This was like the little caveat. You know what she can feel? Lust.

[Kim]

Lust.

[Anna]

Her blushes. I was like, okay, fantasy reasons. But I love it.

[Kim]

Exactly. Exactly. But can I just say that we loved that Elm did not want to progress physically with Ione. Until she had been relieved of the maiden card.

[Anna]

I loved that. Because she's basically. Can't consent.

[Kim]

No, sorry.

[Anna]

She can consent. It's not like she's under the influence, but she's not fully there. She's not Ione.

[Kim]

Exactly, exactly, exactly. And he wanted to make sure that she was fully herself.

[Anna]

First time that they bone.

[Kim]

Oh, my God. I mean, obviously I was like, give it to me. Then I was like, no, he's right. Like, he's right. Yeah. But we really did need Elma Nyony because, like we've said, Elspeth was locked away this entire. Basically this entire book.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

They provided those really feel good, sweet moments that we needed. And it was such a good break from the pain and the darkness.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

That we had to deal with the entire book.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

So let's talk about one of our favorite moments. We are going to save the seller scene for a special Patreon episode on this book. We will talk about that at the end of our episode.

[Anna]

Yes. Stay tuned.

[Kim]

Stay tuned for that. But. Oh, my God. Okay, so she takes back her maiden car, and Elm is giving her space. And she opens the door, and he asks her to be his queen. And he takes her horseback riding. I love this, you guys. This was so beautiful.

[Anna]

Beautiful.

[Kim]

It was a movie.

[Anna]

It was a movie. And it's the first thing he says because she. Remember, she's like, what's the first thing that you notice about me? And he's like, the first time I saw you, you were riding through the woods. Like, windswept hair and mud on your ankles.

[Kim]

Mud on your ankles.

[Anna]

And she was like, I want to go horseback riding. He's like, let's go.

[Kim]

Let's go. Duh. So he gets two horses. They're saddled, and they're riding through the meadows in the fields. And her hair is whipping behind her, and she just. She just starts laughing. Like unbridled joy that she can finally let out. And he is just looking over at her in such awe. And he leans over and he kisses her as best as he can. And her hair is, like, all windswept. And it is just the most beautiful moment because you. You're finally. It's such relief for them to be together and be joyful together, because Ione has not been able to feel that for a long time.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

And it's so beautiful. And then they have some really hot field sex.

[Anna]

Who would have thought? Outdoor sex.

[Kim]

Outdoor sex. We were so into it. Like, loved it.

[Anna]

I loved it.

[Kim]

But, you know, it was really shockingly. Very tender and vulnerable too.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And Elm is truly just such a little his. He's so emotional and vulnerable and wears his heart on his sleeve.

[Anna]

Yes, he does. He really does.

[Kim]

And it was so nice to see because he's letting her take control. But there's this moment where he's like, just please keep looking at me. Like, keep looking at me and. But he wants like that connection with her because he talks a lot about being able to tell behind her eyes, like, so that she is kind of cold. When she's under the influence of the maiden card. He can tell by her eyes that there's no warmth there. There's no feelings. And so now that she's not, he wants to just stare into her eyes so he can see all of that emotion.

[Anna]

I love it.

[Kim]

And he says, I can't fucking breathe when you look at me, Ione.

[Anna]

Oh my God. I mean, I just love it so much. And it was such a sweet, tender moment. Because, you know, there's a moment like in the very beginning when they first escape from Hawthorne House or something and the highwaymen attack them. And he sees her, he brings her to him, his private quarters and the castle. And she's like shivering and cold and he pulls her hair back out of the cloak or something and he's like, it's the perfect length to wrap around my fist and tug. And I was like, oh, helm.

[Kim]

Okay.

[Anna]

It's like, okay. And you see, he makes comments like that and you see these kind of like dominant side of him.

[Kim]

Oh, yeah.

[Anna]

But then this moment is about Ione too. It's just about tenderness and sweetness and this like new found love.

[Kim]

Yeah, it's such a moment of connection for them too. And you really feel that. And it's so beautiful. So, yep, we've had this beautiful moment and they're holding hands, walking back into the castle, and they're ready to go, you know, announce that we're gonna get married. Because remember, dad, you said Ione is engaged to the heir and Hoth is not gonna wake up and I'm the heir. Oh, oh, but, oh, but no. Oh, but no. The rage I felt, I texted Anna and I was like, no. Like the rage when it was like, okay, beautiful ride in the wood and Hoth is standing there.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

I was like, are you fucking kidding me?

[Anna]

I read that and I put my Kindle down. I was like, okay, yeah. Like, I knew. I knew there had to be some sort of hiccup, but I was like, hate it. Like, why couldn't he just be Dead.

[Kim]

I don't know. I have wanted him dead. Read this entire book. And then I was like, are you. Are you joking me? He's completely alive and well.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Fully ready to just everything up that we just work so hard for. Of course. So Hoth really can't feel anything? He has no emotions, Nothing?

[Anna]

No.

[Kim]

I'm gonna speed through this, because I'm not gonna lie. This was very rough to read. I don't love physical violence in general.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

But I didn't love reading about this. And Hoth just is so truly evil. Like, to his core, he is evil. And this was so rough to read. Read. So he stabs Ione.

[Anna]

Yep. That was brutal.

[Kim]

Stabs her and is basically like, she'll be fine. Don't worry. Like, we're gonna do a little experiment.

[Anna]

Because he gave her the maiden card back.

[Kim]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah.

[Anna]

He makes her and makes her go.

[Kim]

Makes her go under the influence again when she literally just got out from under it.

[Anna]

Poor woman.

[Kim]

And then stops her. So Elm is, like, holding her and counting down the minutes, and she finally wakes up, and he's just cradling her. And she says, I thought that I had passed through the veil. I, like, wanted to come back for you, but I. I really thought that I was about to pass. And he says, someday, but first I want a hundred years with you.

[Anna]

I can't. It's so beautiful.

[Kim]

Love.

[Anna]

Love.

[Kim]

So Hoth is a piece of shit and kills his father, the king.

[Anna]

Yep.

[Kim]

And blames it on Elm.

[Anna]

Yep.

[Kim]

And Elm has to use his scythe card to basically freeze everybody in the room, the throne room, and help Ione escape. And he gives her his scythe card and says, go give it to Raven when he returns with the Twin Alders. Go escape. Like, kind of stick to the woods, wait for Raven to come back, give him this card. And he makes Ione leave, and he goes back and sacrifices himself to Hoth.

[Anna]

That was hard to read.

[Kim]

That was hard to read. And she fights it, and she tries to look back, and you can tell, like, she's trying so hard to fight it.

[Anna]

I know.

[Kim]

Oh, it was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking. He becomes imprisoned. Hoth tortures him. It sucks. And this goes on for almost a month? Turns out.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Because Raven and his friends are stuck in some place where time does not exist.

[Anna]

I don't love that.

[Kim]

And where is that place, Anna? Take us there.

[Anna]

It is. The Twin Elders Wood. That's where it is.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So let's go back with our nightmare. And his Band of Merry Men and Elspeth. And so basically, we realize in a flashback, I think I already mentioned this, but the price of the final Providence card was that Nightmare's basically his sister. And the Twin Elders would requires a sacrifice. And he didn't know this at the time, but when he gets there with his sister, she's infected. The mist infects her and she, like, takes off into the woods. And basically, when Raven and Jesper and the Nightmare get there with their friend Peter, Jesper's like, I volunteer as tribute. And Raven freaks out, but there's nothing he can do because he's already infected, so the mist has no effect on him. He literally cannot be a sacrifice.

[Kim]

Right.

[Anna]

And so Jesper has to do it. And I immediately, I feel like. Again, it goes back to the mirror between the Shepherd King and Raven. And it feels like the parallel now is Jesper and Eric, the Shepherd King's sister.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And Jasper runs through the woods. She's, like, wild and free, and she's talking in riddles. And when they finally get to the twin altars, it's clear, though, that she's dying. The two trees, the black and the white tree, wrap her in their roots, and she's slowly dying. And Raven, though different than the Shepherd King, he, like, collapses. And he says, please, I will speak to the spirit, meet any price, but not my sister. And it's the Shepherd King, the Nightmare, who responds and says to the Twin Elders, and he's got his sword, and he says, you will not make a monster out of him as you did me, forcing him to give up a sister. Let go of Jesper Yu, or I will cleave your roots from this earth.

[Kim]

Wow.

[Anna]

And it's like this beautiful moment where you see Raven make a separate decision from the Shepherd King. But then the Shepherd King, again, growth realized. I'm not having history repeat itself. No, that was the final straw that broke me, probably. And I'm not gonna do it to Raven.

[Kim]

Right.

[Anna]

Anyways, long story short, they all end up through this, like, portal to see the spirit of the wood. And she is creepy af, as Kima Rae discussed.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And we know that an infected person has to bleed on Solstice night and unite all the Providence cards and lift the mist. There has to be a sacrifice, and it has to be an infected person. And it was going to be Emery. Right? That's what the King was going to use Emerie for. Yeah, but the Shepherd King is planning. I don't think he was ever really going to sacrifice Elspeth but that's what he's saying. Like, Elspeth's blood will shed Elspeth's blood to, you know, lift the mist.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And Raven says, you must know that I was never going to allow the king to spill her blood to unite the deck. The nightmare was still a long while then. So quiet it might have been waves upon the shore. He said, you would bleed in Elspeth's place. In my place. Raven straightened his shoulders and spoke with enough conviction to reach every one of the nightmare's 500 years. Yes. And it's this beautiful moment where I think the Shepherd King genuinely looks at Raven and is moved. I don't think he feels worthy of being saved. And yes, of course, it's Elspeth's body. And yes, of course, we could argue that Raven is trying to save just Elspeth, but I think they are so entwined, it's impossible not to realize you're also saving the Shepherd King. And that Raven would sacrifice himself for either of them. Blows the nightmare away.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So anyways, the spirit of the wood takes Raven, and basically she says, I'll give you the twin Alders, but you have to tell me your name. Like your real name. And he's like, okay, I don't understand. Like, my name's Raven Yu.

[Kim]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anna]

And he's like, can you give me. Can I. What is it?

[Kim]

Like, phone a friend.

[Anna]

Phone a friend, please can I have a clue? And she's like, all right. She gave in really easily. She's like, all right, I'll take you on a little, like, mind journey. Let's go to the Pensive. And I'm basically going to, like, spell it out for you. So if you don't get this right, I don't know, it's like, you're stupid.

[Kim]

You're an idiot.

[Anna]

You literally are an idiot. Like, the nightmare said, yeah, the dimmest of yous. So she takes him on this flashback journey, and it's the night that Brutus Rowan.

[Kim]

Oh, this was rough.

[Anna]

This was rough.

[Kim]

I really did not like this.

[Anna]

I did not like this. He kills the Shepherd King. And we know from all of the flashbacks that he also orders that all of the children be killed. This was really hard. And I'm just gonna say this part because I think it's important for later. The Shepherd King is running through the fields with his children, but he's carrying Tilly's lifeless body. And it's this. This. Just pin that for a little parallel later. Yeah, but when the nightmare, like, dies and with his last breath, he, like, curses the Rowan King. But Bennett, the oldest son, is, like, missing from this group of children. And when Brutus Roan finds him, he tries to use a scythe card on him. And Bennett basically laughs and is like, that's not gonna work on me. Because his gift not only is the same as Raven's. Well, it is the same as Raven's. But what we don't know about Raven's gift yet is that balance. The spirit of the wood loves balance. And when the Shepherd King asked for a blessing upon his oldest child, she gave him his magic. And his magic is the antithesis to the Shepherd King.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

It is, like, basically a check and a balance.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

So the Shepherd King has all these providence cards, but Bennett is the person who can destroy them.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And we don't know that about Raven, though. Like, we don't connect that dot until this moment when Brutus Rowan attacks and Bennett rips the scythe card in half and then uses the mirror card to disappear.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And we know he survives. And he ends up Raven, like we suspected, is the heir to the U line.

[Kim]

Yeah. Yes.

[Anna]

But Taxus is the last name that the Shepherd King went by.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

And so when she says, what is your name, Raven U. He says, taxus. My name is Taxus. And what does Taxus mean?

[Kim]

Let's have a herbology time.

[Anna]

Herbology lessons with Anna.

[Kim]

Yay. What does it mean, Anna?

[Anna]

So taxis, which I Googled the very first time we meet taxis in, like, chapter two or three. I was like, I wonder if this is a type of tree.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Anna]

I googled it, and sure enough, it is the common yew tree. It's basically, like, part of the sign. There's a longer taxis something or other.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That is, like, the scientific name for the yew tree, but it's the common yew. It's like the oldest yew tree. So that was what they were. And I think Bennett must have changed the name to Yew somewhere along the line.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

To, like, hide the fact that they were a part of the Shepherd King's family.

[Kim]

Absolutely. So interesting.

[Anna]

Okay, so we come out of the mist. We have the Twin Alders card. We're journeying back to Castle you. It's been 24 days. We need to hustle. It's actually solstice night.

[Kim]

I was like, oh, my God.

[Anna]

I was like, I'm sorry. We have two hours.

[Kim]

Yeah, Two hours.

[Anna]

We have to make it through this trek of woods and over the, like, magic scary lake.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Anna]

So we're doing all that. And the reason I asked you to pin it for Tilly is the nightmare is holding Jesper's body, and she's, like, hanging on by a thread. And there's just this moment where, again, it's like, I think a parallel. The nightmare sees Tilly in his arms, and he's holding Jesper. And Raven at one point's, like, I'll hold her. I'll take my sister. And he, like, snatches her away. Nightmare snatches her away. And he's like, no, I have her. I think he feels such guilt and such responsibility. And he's like, I will fix this. She will not die.

[Kim]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Anna]

And she doesn't. He uses the maiden card, and she's fine.

[Kim]

Yeah. But, oh, man.

[Anna]

It's so Kim. That takes us to our ending. We are in the home stretch.

[Kim]

We're in the home stretch here, people. Okay, so I don't like any of this. So we're just gonna run through it because it makes me so angry. Angry. So they're like, okay, we're gonna do this. We've got a plan. We're here. Okay. Hoth has Raven's entire family lined up ready to be sacrificed if Raven doesn't hand over the Twin Alders card.

[Anna]

Yeah. Yep.

[Kim]

Because Hoth, being the piece of shit that he is, has decided. Actually, I like the mist and I like the infection because it keeps the people scared and dependent upon the Rowan family.

[Anna]

My God. So fucked up.

[Kim]

Like, ew. Ew. So, okay, final battle. The trees come alive. The shepherd king uses his magic.

[Anna]

I loved this.

[Kim]

And they come alive, and it is so cool. It's very fitting. I mean, we say trees instead of curses for two whole books now. Yeah. And so to see these trees come alive and he's, like, whipping his sword. It is so cool.

[Anna]

Fairy tale.

[Kim]

Fairy tale. Yes. So Ione comes out and she uses her maiden card so that she can't be hurt. And it's so badass. She's like this vengeful goddess, and we love it. And Hoth is, like, freaking out, but the yew trees are, like, attacking him, so he can't do anything. And so Ione takes off into the woods, and Hoth is like, go get her. And so the destriers chase after her into the woods, but it's a trap that the nightmare has laid. I was so stressed. But then when we got to this part, I was like, okay, we have a plan. Like, everybody has a role, and this is gonna. I think we might be okay.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And so Ione uses the sky card and freezes all the destriers. And they're all killed.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And then we get a little reunion moment because Elm and Eric Spindle, which is Elspeth's father, and Tiern is Ione's father, they show up, and the maiden card is used to heal all of them. Because, like, keep in mind, they've been in the dungeon for 24 days. They are fraught. Like, there's frostbite all over their bodies. They are. Yeah, really not doing well, actually, how they even made it this far, how they even got out of the dungeon, I'm gonna be honest, fantasy reasons, because, yes, they seemed very near death to me. But fine, so she heals him, and Elm runs up to Ione and grabs her face and kisses her. And they're, like, passionately making out.

[Anna]

And it's so hot.

[Kim]

So hot. We love it. And Ione's father is like, really? And I'm like, you shut the up. Like you sold your daughter to Hoth. Shut up.

[Anna]

You have no leg to stand on.

[Kim]

So meanwhile, they're all in the woods. Raven is battling Hoth. He's taking him on.

[Anna]

Oh, God.

[Kim]

And there is just years and years of rage between the two of them because Hoth has always been a little bit scared of Raven because Raven, like, stands up to him. So they're fighting, and unfortunately, Raven gets a bit cocky, and Hothead, like, stabs him in the ribs.

[Anna]

Yeah, I didn't love that.

[Kim]

Didn't love it. And so the nightmare comes and finds Raven. And he's on the ground, and there's blood everywhere around Raven. And he says, tell Elspeth not to hate me. And Elspeth is in the nightmare. You know mine.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And it says something fractured in the dark room I inhabited. The nightmare's hands shook on his sword, unflinching, 500 years old. He looked down at Raven, his lost descendant, and trembled. I wanted a better blunder for her. If you perish, that blunder will never exist. Oh, he wanted it for Elspeth because he couldn't give it to his children.

[Anna]

I know. It's so, like, full circle.

[Kim]

It's so full circle. So the trees that we talked about.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

The Shepherd King is commanding them. That's his magic.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And they basically come alive and they are pulling, dragging Hoth into the Shepherd King's chamber.

[Anna]

Right.

[Kim]

The main chamber where all this has gone down, all this stuff.

[Anna]

The one dark window.

[Kim]

Exactly, the one dark window. He's in there. He has no swords. He has no weapons. He has nothing. And the nightmare says that he is going to make Elm the king, and he's going to name a new line after him.

[Anna]

I love this.

[Kim]

The nightmare says, neither rowan nor you, but somewhere between a pale tree in winter, neither red, gold, nor green. Black hides the blood. Bloodstained, but washes the realm. First of his name. King of the elms.

[Anna]

I love it.

[Kim]

And also, Elm always wears black, and it used to hide the blood stains from Hoth's beating. Black hides the blood stain, but washes the realm. I love that. Oh, my gosh. Okay, do we have another herbology lesson with Anna about the elm tree?

[Anna]

Oh, yes. I just thought it was interesting. I looked up what elm trees mean.

[Kim]

Okay.

[Anna]

So basically, it means, like, protector and endurance. And I just think it really represented Elm. He has withstood so much torture and pain in his childhood, and he has stood tall, you know? And I think that nightmare says at some point, like, the elm tree reigns tall over both Rowan and you.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Oh, wonderful. Love it. Great job, Rachel.

[Kim]

Great job, Rachel. We love a full circle moment. So the nightmare king hands Elm his sword and is like, this is for you. You need to end this. And so Elm and Ione get to end it together. So Hoth kind of starts physically fighting him because he doesn't have any weapons, and Elm lets him, like, choke him with one wrist, and dangling from it is his familiar, his charm that keeps him safe from the mist.

[Anna]

Yep.

[Kim]

And so he lets him start choking him, and Elm grabs it, rips it off of him, and the mist swirls in and takes over Hoth immediately. Immediately. He's going crazy. He. He's screaming on the ground, freaking out. Because, remember, in order for the magic to work, not only do they need all 12 Providence cards, but they also need the blood of someone who is infected. I loved this so much.

[Anna]

Again, balance, full circle.

[Kim]

Exactly. Because I was like, how are we going to get around this? Like, I don't want it to be that all of a sudden, they don't need someone to die.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

Because that wouldn't make sense.

[Anna]

Right.

[Kim]

But I love that it was Hoth. And so Elm is. Is about to stab him, and he says, help me. He whispered to Ione. She put her hand over his, the two of them bearing the weight of the shepherd king's sword. They pulled in a breath at the same time. Then over the deck of cards, they held the tip of the sword against Hoth's chest, the same place he'd stabbed Ione and pressed full circle.

[Anna]

Full circle. I love it.

[Kim]

We know that Jesper has the same magic as Tilly. So the maiden card doesn't work on Raven, but Jesper's magic is a result of her sacrificing herself in the woods. Woods. So she is able to save Raven because he is, like, really about to die.

[Anna]

I got a little nervous there for a second.

[Kim]

Yeah, agreed. I was like, oh, look, we're cutting a little close. The room's going dark. I don't. What are we doing? What's happening here?

[Anna]

Don't go to the light, Raven.

[Kim]

No, don't do that.

[Anna]

God. He says, I'll wait 10 minutes before I cross. Like I gave Elspeth 10. I'll wait 10.

[Kim]

So everyone is alive and wonderful. All the cards are destroyed, but the spirit of the wood left one card for Elm that when used, it heals a person of the infection.

[Anna]

I love it.

[Kim]

I love that.

[Anna]

Isn't it called the Shepherd?

[Kim]

I think it's called the shepherd card.

[Anna]

The shepherd card. Right. I believe it is not taxis. It's called, like, the shepherd card.

[Kim]

No, I think there's a picture of a shepherd on it.

[Anna]

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Okay.

[Kim]

Okay, Anna.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Kim]

It's time.

[Anna]

I have not been able to read this without crying. Okay, so everyone's healed. Everyone's happy, like Kim said. And Raven goes out to the chamber, the shepherd king's chamber. And the shepherd king is there. He's still in Elspeth's body. And Elspeth's still locked away in the mind. And Elspeth, he finds out from the nightmare, cannot be healed from the final Providence card because her degeneration does not allow her to touch any Providence card. Like, it doesn't matter what it is. It won't work on her. It'll only, like, make her worse. The nightmare is, like, he genuinely is concerned. But he says, you know, like, basically, the one way that she can survive is you have to kill me. You have to destroy the final nightmare card like Raven. You. And he says, the nightmare. I thought I was the father she deserved, that I could carry her through the terrible, violent world. I hadn't done it well with my own children. And when I woke in her young mind, the first thing I felt after 500 years of fury, his voice softened, was wonder. Quiet and gentle. I remembered what it was to care for someone. It's so funny because Raven feels so conflicted. I think he realizes that losing the nightmare is going to really hurt.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But obviously it's the only way to save her. And so he says, I'll give you 10 minutes to say goodbye. And he, like, leaves them alone.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And so then the nightmare goes into his mind with Elspeth, and he has this conversation. And this is the same what we said in the very beginning of the episode to pin it for later, when Taxis meets Elspeth on the shore and says, my dear one, let me tell you a story. So the shepherd king says, here we are, my darling girl. He whispered to me, the end of all things. The last page of our story. I don't know what it will be like to finally sip through the veil. He whispered, I hope it is as it was 11 years ago when you freed me from the nightmare. Card. Elspeth Bindle. Quiet, gentle, full of wonder. He unclenched his jaw and hauled in a breath. And then Elspeth says, I'll tell you a story. It always helped me sleep as a child. He nodded, folding his hands over his lap, and closed his eyes. There once was a girl, clever and good, who tarried in shadow in the depths of the wood. There also was a king, a shepherd by his crook, who reigned over magic and wrote the old book. The two were together. So, the two. And then she says, I couldn't go on. I'm trying so hard not to cry right now.

[Kim]

I know. Me too.

[Anna]

And in her mind she says, I couldn't go on. So he says, elspeth. And she says, no, I'm not ready. Not yet. And he, like, whispers, finish the story, dear one, it says, my voice shook. The two were together. And the nightmare repeats together. And she says, so the two were the same. The girl, he whispered, honey and oil and silk. The king, she says, and then we said the final words together, our voices echoing listless through the dark. A final note, an eternal farewell, and the monster they became. And it's just so beautiful because it's like I'm trying. I feel like practiced this so many times today and tried so hard not to cry. This is like, oh, God, it's so beautiful.

[Kim]

It's so sad.

[Anna]

I have to, like, scrunch my nose up so I don't, like, start snotting. Oh, it's this beautiful moment. And when he says in the beginning, let me tell you a story, dear one. I love how he calls her his darling girl. Oh, God, But I can't. It's so fucking beautiful.

[Kim]

It's so beautiful. But it's so sad because, you know it needs to happen.

[Anna]

But it's so sad.

[Kim]

He's been with her for most of her life, and he does care for her. And he has been good to her in as much as he can be with, you know, with the situation at hand.

[Anna]

And he's guided her and protected her. And like he says to Raven, like, I wanted to be the father she deserved because her father abandoned her. Basically, he did. And I think he saw Ellsworth as his do over. It's impossible not to care for someone when you're that. When you know their every, most inner, like, thought. All of her hopes and desires and wishes and like, he knew all of them.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And it's gotta feel empty. There has to be a part of her that, after this final goodbye, feels empty. It must be so hard for her to even remember a time where he wasn't there.

[Kim]

Absolutely. I feel like it would feel as if there was a piece missing in her.

[Anna]

Yeah, totally. Okay. So our epilogue. I loved the epilogue. We rarely get, like, a marriage on paper and, like, true. You know, it's just like. And they run off into the sunset. No. We get this beautiful, actual wedding scene. And Elm is so sweet. He's standing there, like, marrying Ione, and he says, I love you for a hundred years and an eternity after.

[Kim]

Oh, Elm.

[Anna]

And like Raven and Elspeth, their final moment in the epilogue is they're walking down the road where they first met in book one when he was dressed as a highwayman and she bested him and pinned him to the ground. And, you know, they had the sweet moment where they remember that. And the final line of the book I just thought was absolutely perfect. And she says, it's Elsa's pov.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

He knew as well as I did that the nightmare was gone. But Amory Percival Taxis had bled into me for so long that somewhere in the dark, listless shore of my mind, he remained with me. For it was we who had drawn the circles. We who had shepherded the others toward their destiny. We who had rearranged the kingdom like trees in our very own wood. And though it had taken slow, painful time, I knew who I was without him. I was more than the girl, the king and the monster of Blunder's dark, twisted tale. I was its author.

[Kim]

Wow, wow, wow. What a last line.

[Anna]

I was its author.

[Kim]

Author. Incredible.

[Anna]

Again, that fairy tale like this was their story. This was their fable.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

Thank you for joining us.

[Kim]

I mean, beautifully done.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

I mean, maybe one of my favorite epilogues ever.

[Anna]

Absolutely gorgeous. Carissa is our queen of prologues.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

They need to get together and, like.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Work together. And Rachel can do all the epilogues.

[Kim]

Exactly, exactly. I loved everything about this, it felt so satisfying.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

You feel so complete. But there was real loss throughout the book as well.

[Anna]

Real. Yes.

[Kim]

So it felt real, like the stakes were high. People died.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And so you get to this point and you see them happy. But there has been this loss. But she says, I knew who I was without him. Yeah. And so she's healing and she's growing and she's. She's figured out who she is without him. And it's just. It's so beautiful.

[Anna]

I love that. I just think it's absolutely so well done. Like you said, it was such a satisfying ending.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

There was no part that I was like, well, ugh, this was rushed, or I didn't like that. I mean, it just felt like I finished the book and I felt bereft in a way because it was over and I missed the characters, but I also had a sense of ease and I was at peace with the ending.

[Kim]

Yes. Absolutely.

[Anna]

Beautifully done, Rachel. Bravo.

[Kim]

I mean, truly the perfect way to feel after you finish a book, you know, is you do feel that loss and that book hangover. Feel that you're like, oh, my God, how do I even move on from this? Because it was so beautifully done. It was wonderful.

[Anna]

And listeners, if you want to hear more of some of our favorite moments, that unfortunately, there was just not enough time to talk about everything. We are actually going to have a little special, like, mini episode where we go through some of our favorite moments from the book for all tiers, tier one and tier two on our Patreon. That'll come out after this is released sometime in the next.

[Kim]

Absolutely. You do not want to miss it. We are discussing some really fun moments. And so, of course, our Patreon link will be in the show notes and make sure you are following us on Instagram at Flights of Fantasy Podcast and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And until next time, cheers and happy reading.

[Anna]

Cheers, listeners. Bye.