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Flights of Fantasy
S4 : Ep 26 - Author Interview : Carissa Broadbent - Crowns of Nyaxia Series
00:36:48
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- [00:08]
Anna
Welcome to Flights of Fantasy, your podcast book club. I am one of your hosts, Anna, and I am joined by one of my book besties, Kim.
- [00:15]
Kim
Hello.
- [00:16]
Anna
We are so excited you guys because we have the greatest honor and pleasure.
- [00:21]
Carissa Broadbent
This episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Big smiles, rocking tunes and epic drinks Dutch Bros. Is all about you. Choose from a variety of customizable handcrafted beverages like our Rebel energy drinks, coffees, teas and more. Download the Dutch Bros app for a free medium drink plus find your nearest shop, order ahead and start earning rewards offer valid for new app users only. Free medium drink Reward upon registration 14 day expiration terms apply.
- [00:49]
Anna
See DutchBros.com pleasure of interviewing the great Carissa Broadbent, author of the War of Lost Hearts series and the Crown of NYAXIA series. Her new book, the Songbird and the Heart of Stone is coming out shortly after this interview is released and we cannot wait for you to read it. It is absolutely amazing. We were honored to be able to have an arc of the book and it has been such a joy to be back in this world. And before we get started though, Kim, do you want to shout out some of our tier 2 patrons?
- [01:16]
Kim
I would love to, Anna. So as always, we are going to be shouting out our Tier two Buck bitches. If you're unfamiliar with our Patreon, that is one of the benefits of being a Tier two patron. You get a shout out in one of our episodes. So this episode we are going to be shouting out Madison Smith, Brittany Smith, Connor Levens, Maya Rusannan and Lindsey Galicki. Thank you guys so much for supporting us. It truly means the world to us.
- [01:39]
Anna
Thank you guys so much. And thank you to everyone who has supported the podcast by rating and reviewing the show. If you're loving the podcast, please take a minute to rate and review us on your favorite platform. It really makes a big difference and helps us reach more listeners.
- [01:51]
Kim
Yes, absolutely.
- [01:52]
Anna
Okay. And so with that listeners, this is your spoiler warning for the entire Crowns of NYAXIA series. That's Serpent and the Wings of Night, Ashes and the Star Cursed King, as well as the novella Six Scorched Roses. The format of this episode will be the first part of it will cover all of the main two duologies in the Crowns of NYAXIA series. And then at the very end we will have a spoiler free discussion of Songbird and the Heart of Stone. If you want to hear our spoiler discussion on this book, it will be released on Patreon after the book Songbird and The Heart of Stone comes out next week.
- [02:27]
Kim
Yes. Oh, my gosh. You guys do not want to miss this. Going to be amazing.
- [02:30]
Anna
Yes.
- [02:31]
Kim
Okay.
- [02:31]
Carissa Broadbent
Okay.
- [02:31]
Anna
And so, without further ado, let's dive in.
- [02:34]
Kim
Yay.
- [02:35]
Anna
Hi, Carissa. Thank you so much for joining us today. We are so excited to have you here. We are huge fans of your War of Lost Hearts trilogy and your Crown of Nyxia series, and I wish we had time to discuss both, but we're going to be focusing this interview on the Crowns of Nyaxia series. But before we dive in, we have recorded episodes on all of your books.
- [02:53]
Kim
Yeah.
- [02:53]
Anna
And I want to make sure we are pronouncing Misha's name correctly, because we were going off of the pronunciation guide on your Instagram stories. But I know that Asar spells it out Misha in the book, and I feel badly now because I think we were seeing Misha in our original the duology with the serpent and the wings of night and rain.
- [03:10]
Carissa Broadbent
So I'm about to embarrass myself. First of all, I'll say I'm very happy to be here. Thank you so much for.
- [03:13]
Anna
Oh, sorry. I just totally, like, bulldozed over you.
- [03:16]
Carissa Broadbent
No, that's fine. And I'll start by kind of humbling myself and humiliating myself a little bit. Where my names are so chaotic. They are chaos. I know they are. I frequently would switch between pronunciations. Like, Araya is another one where, like, half the time I would call her Araya, and half the time I'd call her Araya. And then the audiobook people are like, okay, tell us how to pronounce your characters. And I just would have to pick one. So all this time, I thought that I told the audiobook people Misha, and that was like, okay, official pronunciation.
- [03:44]
Anna
Right.
- [03:45]
Carissa Broadbent
And then when it came time to record Songbird, they emailed me, and they were like, you know that we've been saying Misha this whole time? Like, is Misha okay? And I was like, so I guess audiobook official is Misha. I've switched to saying Misha because apparently that is what I'm supposed to be doing, and that's what I told everybody else to do.
- [04:04]
Kim
Got it.
- [04:04]
Carissa Broadbent
So, yeah, my. I accept either personally.
- [04:08]
Kim
Okay.
- [04:08]
Carissa Broadbent
But, yeah, Misha is technically the official pronunciation.
- [04:11]
Kim
Okay.
- [04:12]
Anna
Okay. Well, now that we've cleared that up, we've been saying Misha. We will try and pivot and say Misha going forward.
- [04:18]
Carissa Broadbent
I think either is fine. And if she was here with us, I don't think she'd be offended by either.
- [04:23]
Anna
I Mean, knowing her personally, I feel like she wouldn't either.
- [04:26]
Kim
Yes, absolutely.
- [04:28]
Anna
Okay, so we want to chat a little bit about world building. Crown Valexia is such a diverse world. We have various vampire houses, gods, lore. How did you approach building this world specifically in comparison to your War of Lost Hearts series?
- [04:40]
Carissa Broadbent
That's a great question. Because they were very deliberately different. So the War of Lost Hearts books, it was like I had this character, and I had this story, and the world kind of built around her, like, around her and around the story. When I sat down to do to plan out the Crowns of Nyaxia series, I very deliberately chose to go the opposite direction. Meaning I came up with a world, a big world, and then I found stories within it that I wanted to tell. And I deliberately wanted to, like, have a world that was very big and very varied with, like, lots of different possibility and stories within it. Not to say that I have, like, you know, like, there are some, like, epic fantasy authors who will write, like, a freaking bible about their world before they write a page of the story. I'm not that organized. It was more like, let me kind of, like, stake out the edges of this big world. Like, I know I want these 12 gods, and the magic system is built, you know, based on these gods. There's this huge world and all these continents and then kind of slowly zoomed into the continent that I wanted to be on and then found the stories within that.
- [05:49]
Kim
That is so fascinating. So we actually call you the Queen of Prologues, because across both of your series, War of Lost Hearts and Crowns of Nyaxia, your prologues have truly become one of the things that we look forward to the most when we open one of your books.
- [06:03]
Anna
Yes.
- [06:04]
Kim
Because it is so, so rare to see an author who can captivate their audience so quickly in the first paragraph of a book. Like, let's take, for example, Songbird in the Heart of Stone, the first line is, this is the story of how a chosen one falls. Immediately you have our attention. Like, please tell me more. So can you talk a little bit about how you conceive those parts of the story?
- [06:23]
Carissa Broadbent
Thank you very much. Because I know some people have very strong negative feelings to prologues, and I just refuse to give them up. I love them so much.
- [06:33]
Kim
Oh, my gosh.
- [06:34]
Anna
Literally, our favorite part of your books is one of our favorite parts.
- [06:37]
Carissa Broadbent
Thank you.
- [06:38]
Kim
They're incredible.
- [06:39]
Carissa Broadbent
I feel very validated. So now when I start a new series and somebody like, an agent or an editor is like, maybe don't. I'm gonna be like, no, we will be disappointed.
- [06:48]
Kim
That's right.
- [06:49]
Carissa Broadbent
Thank. Okay. Okay, great. I'm going to keep this for posterity. So I originally started doing prologues in the War of Lost Hearts books, actually, maybe my series before that. My, like, bad series that I don't talk about. That's not available anymore.
- [07:03]
Anna
What?
- [07:03]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah, it's really not good. You don't want to read it. It's not great. I listened to this really excellent lecture by Dan Wells. It's called the seven point story structure or something like that. The seven. Seven something story structure. You can find it on YouTube. And he talks about, like, plot structure, but he talks about prologues as the quote, unquote, ice monster prologue. And he talks about it like in the context of Game of Thrones. Like, you know, at the beginning of Game of Thrones, there's like this prologue confession. I've never read the book, but even in the show, they. They adapt it faithfully. There's this part where, like, a guy is, like, out in the winter worlds, whatever, and he sees the zombies, the ice zombies. So it kind of tells you, like, as a reader or a viewer, like, hey, I know that we're going to be doing some slow world building stuff, but, like, there's going to be ice zombies. Just so you know, this is where we're going. This is where we're going. So whenever I sit down to do a prologue, like, some of it is just me being, like, literary self indulgent because I love to, like, do that whole shtick, but it's also like, I try to give the reader a taste of what is to come much later in the book. Like, actually, almost all of my prologues tell you the end of the book in some way.
- [08:20]
Anna
Yes.
- [08:20]
Carissa Broadbent
That's a game that I like to play.
- [08:22]
Anna
It is a really good bookend. I mean, I can't give a spoiler right now for Songbird, but when we get there, I'm gonna have to pin that thought.
- [08:28]
Kim
Yeah.
- [08:29]
Carissa Broadbent
Yes. Yes. I always try to like one of my little games with myself is that I like to try to make a prologue that, like, reads very differently. If you read it again after reading the book.
- [08:40]
Kim
Yes.
- [08:41]
Carissa Broadbent
So it hits. Sometimes I pull it off and sometimes I don't, but. Thank you. Thank you.
- [08:45]
Kim
You always pull it off. Always. It is truly so incredible. So do the prologues come to you at the beginning or is it one of the last things you write or does it depend on the book?
- [08:55]
Carissa Broadbent
I always write the prologue first. It usually changes very dramatically when I come back at the end because of that foreshadowing and stuff. Like, sometimes things change or whatever. I do always wr the interludes, like, in between the parts. I write those at the very, very end, and I write them all at once.
- [09:11]
Kim
Oh, really?
- [09:13]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah.
- [09:13]
Anna
Oh, okay. I was curious about that. This is not a spoiler listeners, for Songbird, but I. In Songbird, you have these little interludes before each part of the book. And Kim, Chrissy, and I, we all looked forward to it when we knew a new part was coming, because we're like, oh, we get another interlude.
- [09:26]
Kim
We get an interlude. Yeah.
- [09:27]
Anna
Oh, they're so beautiful. They were some of our favorite parts. I can't wait to discuss them later.
- [09:30]
Kim
Yeah, absolutely.
- [09:31]
Anna
Okay. So I think most of our listeners know that when covering your books, a huge section of our outline is dedicated to your villains that you've written. And the reason for that is that we have rarely encountered an author who has been able to tackle the concept of, like, a true morally gray character. And personally, I have a background in theater, and something that's so important when we're creating a character's backstory is that you have to remember that no one is a villain in their own story. And I feel like in Crowns of Nyaxia, that is specifically. That is Vincent, and he is just so fascinating to read. What was your process when developing his character, and how did you navigate, like, the complexities of writing such a morally gray character?
- [10:15]
Carissa Broadbent
Oh, I. This is one of my favorite things. I love writing very morally gray characters, and not just morally gray in, like, the. I feel like in the book world, people sometimes use it to describe, like, oh, here's like, a hot man will totally kill somebody because he loves you so much, you know? And, like, yes, that's morally gray because we shouldn't kill people in real life. But, like, yeah, like, actually complicated people. So one thing I thought about a lot when I was writing the War of Lost Hearts series is it's very hard to be a good person. Like, in real life, there are many people who want to be better. People who genuinely, like, love the people around them and are still, like, constantly hurting them because they just cannot get it together. Like, it's. It's hard. And I always feel like, as a storyteller, if you want to show people overcoming those obstacles, it makes it much more impactful to also see people who are incapable of overcoming those obstacles.
- [11:14]
Anna
Yes.
- [11:15]
Carissa Broadbent
So I frequently thought about that with Vincent because, like, especially in the context of, like, Ashes, because so much of that is about, like, you know, in this really brutal world. Is it, like, possible to hold power without truly emotionally damaging yourself beyond the point where you can be a positive influence, even to the person that you love more than anything in the world? I find that very interesting. And that's why Vincent is one of my favorite characters that I've ever written, because he's so complicated.
- [11:48]
Anna
Extremely complicated.
- [11:49]
Carissa Broadbent
He's very complicated. And I feel like, you know, if this world actually existed, there would be, like, a lot of guys like Vincent, you know, like, a lot of people who are just, like. Not people joke about him being, like, the hot dad and whatnot. Like. Yeah, in the fictional scenario, that's, like, you know, fun, but, like, he's. He's a fucking mess. He's a mess. Yeah.
- [12:12]
Anna
I mean, I think for a character who's, quote unquote, kind of the villain esque, especially in book one, he's not. That's the thing, though, is he's not, like. That's why we loved him so much. There was such a great, like, backstory with him and Aure. I think you could see these moments of humanity in him and the way that he loved Aurea. It was so beautiful to read. And I remember in book two, we all of us ate up any little moment that Oreya would have a flashback or a memory with him or did that kind of inner monologue where Vincent was talking to her. And we were so excited to get him on page any chance we got.
- [12:45]
Kim
Yeah.
- [12:45]
Anna
So, okay, so before we move on, we just want to touch upon Septimus really quick, because going back to the hot. Morally, Greg, little tidbit. He's giving us. Hot bad boy.
- [12:56]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah.
- [12:57]
Anna
We also heard you say in one of your interviews that he's, like, evil. So is he? How evil is he? Can we expect to see more of him, possibly in other books? Because we loved his character, too.
- [13:07]
Carissa Broadbent
Did I use the term evil?
- [13:09]
Kim
I mean, I remember you called him.
- [13:11]
Anna
Hot, and I thought you said he also.
- [13:13]
Carissa Broadbent
He is hot.
- [13:14]
Anna
Yes, we've always thought he was hot.
- [13:16]
Kim
Yeah.
- [13:16]
Carissa Broadbent
Okay. Yes, he is. All right. He is very relevant to this discussion because he is the epitome of somebody who is very much a hero in their own story. But, like, in this world, like, you can't. Like, if you're him. I mean, are you gonna spend all your time thinking about, like, oh, it would be really mean of me to do, like, this mean thing to the House of Night, who has been, like, you know.
- [13:41]
Anna
Yeah.
- [13:42]
Carissa Broadbent
Like, attacking and tearing down my kingdom for the last, like, 2,000 years, you know, like, are you thinking, like, oh, no, I can't be mean to rain. That would be terrible. You know, like here.
- [13:52]
Anna
Yeah.
- [13:52]
Carissa Broadbent
So, yes, he is big. He's a big character.
- [13:55]
Anna
Okay.
- [13:55]
Kim
Okay.
- [13:56]
Carissa Broadbent
And I am very eager to get to his, like, the bulk of his whole story.
- [14:01]
Anna
I mean, we're very excited. Obviously we've gotten the Nightborne vampires and then Songbird is the Shadowborn vampires. And so I'm guessing Septimus will be in the Bloodborne vampires when you dive into that. But we have a saying on our podcast that like, it's war times. Like sometimes you just have to do things.
- [14:17]
Kim
Yeah.
- [14:18]
Anna
And like, you know, we just gotta get things done. And you're right. You're not always apologizing, you're not always thinking, oh, am I going to hurt somebody? Like you're protecting your people.
- [14:26]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. And it's worth noting that like he. He related to Ureya because she's a human, like living in this world, you know, and he's not human. But the bloodborne have like much shorter lifespans than all the other vampires. Because they're cursed.
- [14:42]
Anna
Yeah.
- [14:42]
Carissa Broadbent
Yes. And they're looked down upon by all of the other vampires. So he kind of, he kind of gets it. Like, I don't know if we see a little bit of this in like Slaying the Vampire Conqueror, which is like a spin off book. And like the House of Blood is like culturally very different than a lot of the other. All the vampire kingdoms kind of have their own like, societal culture.
- [15:02]
Anna
Right.
- [15:02]
Carissa Broadbent
You know, they're all pretty brutal, but they all have like different ways of showing that. And the House of Blood is like the only one that they are much more. Collaborative is not the word I'm looking for. But they're more, you know, they're like tight knit. Like, they're less. They're more likely to like actually care about their children and like.
- [15:19]
Anna
Interesting. Yeah.
- [15:20]
Kim
Right.
- [15:20]
Carissa Broadbent
They don't stick around that long, so they have to stick together a little bit more than the others.
- [15:25]
Kim
Yeah.
- [15:26]
Anna
We don't see that so much. The Shadowborn and the Nightborne, they're often their offspring.
- [15:30]
Kim
Yeah.
- [15:31]
Anna
If they feel threatened.
- [15:32]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. Oh no, they're mean.
- [15:34]
Anna
Yeah.
- [15:34]
Carissa Broadbent
Yes.
- [15:35]
Kim
That's amazing.
- [15:35]
Anna
Well, thank you for that. We just love your true morally gray characters. Like you said. They're just really fascinating to read.
- [15:41]
Carissa Broadbent
They are.
- [15:42]
Kim
So something we've touched upon is power and vulnerability being really strong themes in all of your books. And we love your ability to showcase these moments. So in Serpent we have these trials. It's high stress, lots of death and then interspersed you have these really quiet moments with Rain and Oreya. They're walking through the human village, they're sitting on a rooftop sharing these really intimate and personal stories. So how do you strike a balance between depicting these strong, capable, badass characters and also showing their more vulnerable moments, especially when they're in such a high stakes fantasy setting?
- [16:13]
Carissa Broadbent
That's a great question. I pulled it out of my ass mostly.
- [16:17]
Anna
That's okay.
- [16:18]
Carissa Broadbent
The character moments and like, the character arcs are very important to me as a writer. Like, actually sometimes I go a little too far in that direction and a book might seem, like, boring or like, too slow and then I have to, like, pull back a little bit. But, like, that's what I like. Really like writing. And yeah, I see this a lot in interviews, but like, for the romances in particular, it's always very important to me that by the end of a romance, the reader feels like the characters actually like each other and are actually going to be like a long term partnership.
- [16:48]
Kim
Yeah.
- [16:48]
Carissa Broadbent
You know, not just like, oh, we have all this, like, unresolved sexual tension and like, we're, you know, real banging in bed together, you know, we love that too. But like, sometimes you ever read a book and you get to the end and you're like, they would definitely divorce. You know, like, there's just like, do they even know each other? Like, yes, they love fucking. Like, what else? You know?
- [17:05]
Kim
Totally.
- [17:06]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. So I rely a lot upon those moments, not just for the reader, but even for me, like, to get to know them more. Like, my first drafts actually tend to be a little bit lower on, like, the sexual tension. And then I. Because I'm getting to know the characters and their relationship and then I end up going back and like, pulling more of that forward. But yeah, that was a very rambling answer. I love writing those scenes.
- [17:25]
Kim
Yeah.
- [17:26]
Anna
Yeah. Those were some of our favorites, for sure. Yeah. I loved the scenes on the rooftops, especially where we kind of get a little more insight into Rain and he's vulnerable and Auraya finally starts to open up. They were some of our favorites to read. Lots of highlighting, basically highlight your entire book.
- [17:39]
Kim
We do. Yeah, we do.
- [17:40]
Carissa Broadbent
Oh, I'm honored by that. Do you want to hear a story? Another story that's going to make me look terrible. So when I was writing Serpent, I had never, like, smoked weed or like, had a gummy or anything. Like, never. And then I had a gummy from the first time ever. And because I was really blocked, like on the book, and I was kind of like, I'm like, really stressed out. And, like, also, maybe I'll get, like, inspiration or whatever. Fine.
- [18:05]
Anna
Sure.
- [18:05]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. Nothing like crazy again.
- [18:07]
Anna
Yeah.
- [18:08]
Carissa Broadbent
I'm a lightweight. I'd never, never, never done that. So, you know, it's legal where I am. So. Sure. Fine.
- [18:13]
Kim
Yeah.
- [18:14]
Carissa Broadbent
So I'm lying on the couch, and I'm, like, not feeling anything. Like, I'm, like, saying to my husband, like, this is. I feel the same. Like, I feel a little tired, but whatever.
- [18:21]
Anna
Yeah.
- [18:22]
Carissa Broadbent
And then I was. We ordered pizza, and I was eating chicken wings, and I was like, these are fucking amazing. Like, this is incredible. And I thought to myself, like, I've got it. They should eat chicken wings. They should eat chicken wings. Like, that's what should happen in this book. That's how the characters are going to connect to each other. Because I was having a hard time, like, really feeling, like, their connection. They should eat chicken wings. Like, oh, my God. Fucking brilliant. Carissa, you are so smart. In the moment, this seemed like such a great idea, but in a way, it was, because that is where the rooftop in the pub scenes came from. From me sitting there.
- [18:57]
Anna
Yeah.
- [18:57]
Carissa Broadbent
High, eating chicken wings and being like, this is fucking amazing.
- [19:02]
Kim
I've nailed it. I've got it. It's a breakthrough.
- [19:04]
Carissa Broadbent
I love that. And it was. It turned out it was a little bit, because actually, them going into that crappy pug for the first time in Serpent was when I started to feel like, oh, they're clicking for me. Because before that, they kind of weren't for. For me, like, as characters, like, they had the sexual tension, like, kind of. That's it. But that's when it really broke through, so. Oh, yeah, There you go.
- [19:22]
Anna
Now, you know, that's so fascinating to read, because, I mean, I remember us texting about that when they went into the human realm, into the little tavern and have their ale, and then it becomes, like, a part of them, and then it leads to the rooftops, and it's great. Oh, that's so awesome. I love that story.
- [19:36]
Kim
That's a great story.
- [19:37]
Anna
That's great. Amazing wings. Oh, my God. Okay, so obviously, we're obsessed with Arya and Rain. Well, I feel like you've already kind of answered this, but I was gonna say their relationship really evolves throughout the series. I was gonna say, what was the most challenging part of writing their relationship, But I'm guessing was that kind of the hardest part for you was just trying to get them to connect in that way.
- [19:57]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. And myself, like, feeling it, too. Especially coming off of the third book in the War of Lost Hearts series where the characters had so much history already and they were so. Yeah, yeah. So it's like you're starting from zero again and you have to be like, oh, man, it doesn't feel like that. Yeah, because they haven't, like, gotten there yet.
- [20:15]
Anna
Sure.
- [20:15]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. And then also the other thing. Writing Ashes was very hard because I sat down to write, like, chapter one, and then I was like, oh, fuck. Jesus Christ. Like, how are they going to come back from this? You know? Like, woo, boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [20:29]
Anna
He. I mean, he kills her father. Like, how do we come back from this?
- [20:33]
Kim
That's tough to come back from. You know what I mean?
- [20:35]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah, it sure is. You know, in real life, I'd be like, honey, there's lots of guys in the world.
- [20:39]
Anna
You know, like, maybe this isn't the one.
- [20:42]
Kim
No, maybe not.
- [20:43]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah, right. Maybe not.
- [20:44]
Anna
That's funny. Well, do you have a favorite scene or one that you particularly enjoyed writing about them from either book?
- [20:51]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah, I really liked those pub scenes that we talked about. And then I also really loved in Ashes, the scene. Am I allowed to be specific? With Ashes?
- [21:00]
Anna
Yes, you can do spoilers. Yes, yes, yes. With both Serpent and Ashes.
- [21:03]
Carissa Broadbent
Okay. The scene where Rainbow pushes her off the rooftop so that she finds her wings. Yeah, I really liked that scene a lot because. Well, it's like a funny reversal, you know, of, like. It is funny, but also because it, like, really highlights the difference between Rain and Vincent. Or, like, Rain and all of the, like, other kings and the other powerful people in this world who are constantly, like. Because he's, like, out here actively trying to, like, help her find her own strength, even when it's, like, very directly not smart for him. Yeah. You know, like, she's very dangerous to him.
- [21:39]
Anna
Sure.
- [21:39]
Carissa Broadbent
So I really enjoyed that scene.
- [21:41]
Anna
Yeah, that scene is great. Yeah, we love that part. That was with the. Was that with the creepy little girl who, like, never grew up?
- [21:47]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah, yeah, there was a little creepy little girl. Yes, yes.
- [21:50]
Anna
That was one of our favorite parts to read. It was so much fun.
- [21:54]
Kim
Yeah. Unsettling in the best way.
- [21:55]
Carissa Broadbent
That's what I aim for.
- [21:57]
Anna
Well, nail on the head, like, you nailed it.
- [21:58]
Kim
Nailed it. You know, speaking of Rain, another layer that we loved to see is obviously his relationship with Misha. They share such a unique kind of sibling like, bond, and it really added a lot of depth and warmth to both the story and to their characters. How did you go about kind of developing their friendship and their shared backstory?
- [22:16]
Carissa Broadbent
So I think friendship is really important, and I Love showing those kinds of, like, strong platonic relationships. And in particular, like, they're also an interesting way for me to, like, explore love interests who don't have their own pov. Like, in that book, you know, too, Misha just kind of like, popped up. She actually was an accidental character for me. When I was writing Serpent, and up until, like, kind of the halfway mark, like, close to the halfway mark, I was thinking, like, I'm writing and I'm writing her, I'm thinking, like, I might have to cut this character. Like, I don't know if she's, you know, gonna make it. And then of course, by the halfway mark, I was like, okay, she's important. She's staying. I really like her. She plays a plot role. Like, yeah, you know, she's important. And then between Serpent and Ashes was when I decided I actually, I have a high level idea for, like, all three duologies. So books one and two kind of turned out to be, you know, what they are. Books 5 and 6 are going to turn out to be what they are. I kind of knew that from the start. Books three and four, that second duology morphed the most out of all of them because I found myself in between Serpent and Ashes, kind of being, like, not that excited for it. And then when I. I was getting more attached to Misha and I was like, you know what? I think this is hers. Like, this is her story. And it changed. I mean, there's obviously elements of it that were. Are the same, but it became Misha's story. And that's when I started getting, like, excited about it. So anyway. But yeah, she and Rain have, like a. I love their relationship and we get a lot more of it in future books too, because it's like, they love each other so much, but they're also, like, super codependent. Like, yeah, it's like a very much like two people who would not have survived without each other. Like, in a world where they did not meet, I don't think either of them would have made it.
- [24:07]
Kim
Right.
- [24:07]
Carissa Broadbent
You know?
- [24:07]
Anna
Yeah.
- [24:08]
Carissa Broadbent
But as a result of that, their friendship is not always, like, completely healthy, really, because they're very reliant on each other.
- [24:15]
Kim
I know, but it's so sweet.
- [24:17]
Anna
It's so cute.
- [24:18]
Carissa Broadbent
It is so sweet. They love each other so much. Like, so much.
- [24:21]
Anna
Oh, God, they do.
- [24:22]
Kim
Oh, love them.
- [24:24]
Anna
Okay, well, speaking of Misha, we're going to move into our spoiler free discussion of Songbird. So when we last saw Misha, she was saying goodbye to Areya and Rain can you speak a little bit about where we are with her at the end of book two, Ashes and the Star Cursed King, and her decision to leave Rhaen and Auraya?
- [24:42]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. So, okay. And I can be spoilery with Ashes, right? Yes, yes, yes. So Misha, we kind of get the sense at the end of Ashes that there's, like, more going on with her that she's withholding. Because Misha, for as much as she is, like, an extroverted and a very, like, affectionate person, she's very secretive and withholding when it comes to, like, her own shit. So she had killed the Shadowborn Prince, who is the man who turned her.
- [25:10]
Anna
Yep.
- [25:11]
Carissa Broadbent
And then she tells Rain, you know, after the war is over, like, I'm. I'm peacing out. I need to, like, go see the world and whatnot. And Rain's a little bit, like, Pretty sure it's bullshit. I think it's. But you're an adult. I can't. I can't, like, keep you here. So I guess. Bye. You know, and then in the epilogue, like, the bonus epilogue for Ashes when it was traditionally published, we learned that, like, it's been six months and they don't hear from her at all anym anymore. Yeah. So she kind of. She kind of, like, slow ghosted, which is very distressing to Rain in particular.
- [25:42]
Anna
Yeah, I can only imagine.
- [25:44]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. She's going through some stuff. She has a good heart.
- [25:46]
Anna
She really does.
- [25:47]
Kim
She really does.
- [25:49]
Anna
And I know you just touched upon Misha and, like, you didn't go in knowing you were going to write her story. Was there a moment, though, that made you go, oh, like, I want to write her story?
- [25:58]
Carissa Broadbent
Yes. It was when in Serpent when there was this big attack on the moon palace, and Arya and Rain go to rescue her, and she has all the candles around her. Oh, God.
- [26:09]
Anna
So heartbreaking.
- [26:10]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. And that's when, you know, we learned that she can't, you know, wield her sun magic anymore. Yeah, that guy. Yeah. That's when I was like, oh, she's got, like, a story. And that scene kind of. It kind of just like, came to me, like, as I. Like, I. I have, like, a loose outline. So, like, I knew, you know, moon palace chat, gotta go save Misha, blah, blah. But, like, as I was writing, the aspect of the candles around her and the whole, like, you know, I called and called, and he didn't come type stuff. That kind of came to me as I was drafting it. And that's when I was like, oh, she's got a Story, for sure. And I was very interested in that idea of, like, what happens if you're an acolyte of, like, a God who is very, you know, anti vampire and then become a vampire. Like, that's. Yeah, that must be a real head trip. That's a crazy story. I would love to tell that.
- [27:00]
Anna
No, I'm so excited to discuss that in our next section when we do spoilers. So I'm really excited. Yeah, we have questions.
- [27:07]
Carissa Broadbent
Oh, yeah, it's. That's the most fun part of this world for me is, like, there's so many places for, like, these contradictions, and she embodies that. So I was thinking for a while, like, oh, maybe she'll get a spin off or something. And then I eventually came to the conclusion that, like, she was more interesting than what I had been thinking for books three and four. So that kind of became her story.
- [27:27]
Kim
Oh, my gosh. Amazing. So we read your ELLE article that you. You did, where you spoke a little bit about Songbird, and we were dying over your synopsis, which is literally just, we're going to hell.
- [27:37]
Carissa Broadbent
Get in, loser. Let's go.
- [27:39]
Kim
We're going to hell. So what made you decide to take the setting of Misha's story and place it outside of kind of the normal Shadowborn realm and instead place it in the underworld?
- [27:49]
Carissa Broadbent
I just thought it would be fun.
- [27:50]
Kim
It was.
- [27:51]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I really like exploring, like, different settings and the opportunities for, like, shit to get weird. Honestly, like, I. I love writing some, like, weird dark fantasy horror stuff. And I. I. God bless you for those of you who come along on the ride with me on that stuff, because it's very fun for me. So I just. I was really intrigued by, like, the possibilities of it. Originally, they were kind of going to be more in the house of Shadow. Like, I had them. I originally had them. Like, they'd go and then kind of, like, come back and then, like, go and come back. And then my husband, when I was, like, like, lamenting this book, my husband was like, if I was Nyaxia, I would be so fucking angry that this guy won't just go on his mission. Why are you coming back? Just go.
- [28:36]
Kim
Just go.
- [28:36]
Carissa Broadbent
Go.
- [28:37]
Anna
That's great. That's hilarious. I mean, this is not a spoiler, but we loved the various Sanctums. But speaking of horror, we. At one point, when we were reading, we were like, this is like Alice in Wonderland, but make it horror, but.
- [28:49]
Kim
Make it, like, fantasy horror.
- [28:50]
Anna
There's the mushroom, these giant mushrooms that grow in one of the sanctums. And it was just really. It's really cool. We loved it. The world building was amazing.
- [28:58]
Kim
Yeah.
- [28:59]
Carissa Broadbent
Thank you. Thank you.
- [29:00]
Anna
So. Okay. Speaking of songbird, what can you tell us about our new love interest, Asar? Because we are obsessed. We are obsessed.
- [29:08]
Carissa Broadbent
I'm glad that you are, because he's, like, my favorite. He's, like, my favorite so far, I think.
- [29:12]
Kim
Oh, my God.
- [29:13]
Carissa Broadbent
Definitely of the NYAXIA guys. Like, I think he's my fave. I was asked at an event recently, would you go for, like, rain or veil? And I was like, neither. I would definitely. If I had to pick one for myself, like, Asari's definitely that guy for me.
- [29:27]
Kim
Yeah.
- [29:27]
Carissa Broadbent
Personally won't make me go to a stinky pub. Like, that's great. Terrific. Thank you.
- [29:32]
Anna
Oh, we love him.
- [29:34]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. He is very reserved and a little sassy and he likes books and being by himself and being smarter than everybody else. And he loves his dog so much. And I wanted to create a character who was, on the surface, extremely different from Misha, but, like, under the surface, extremely similar to Misha. And they kind of bounced off each other in that way.
- [30:00]
Kim
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [30:01]
Anna
That reads so we loved him. We loved him. We called him our sexy little professor.
- [30:07]
Carissa Broadbent
He is. Yes. He has, like, his little.
- [30:10]
Anna
Like, when we first meet him, no spoilers. But when we first meet him, he has all these odds and ends and his desk. And we were just like, we wanted him. A little spectacles. He doesn't wear them all the time. Maybe. But in our mind, in our mind, we were like, he has something he takes out.
- [30:25]
Kim
Yeah.
- [30:25]
Anna
And, like, it does his little work.
- [30:27]
Kim
Reads his books.
- [30:28]
Carissa Broadbent
Yes, I. I agree. I would actually. I would very much be on board for that.
- [30:32]
Kim
Right.
- [30:33]
Carissa Broadbent
Actually, so.
- [30:34]
Kim
Right. Like, it is hot. It is hot.
- [30:37]
Anna
It's very hot.
- [30:38]
Carissa Broadbent
It is hot. You know, button down shirt, like, rolled up to the elbows and the glasses and like, the book, you know, little ink on it. Little inks. Ink smears. Like, maybe like a little, like right here from, like, the thoughtful. Like.
- [30:48]
Anna
Oh, my God. Carissa. Yes. You're painting the picture. Yes, Absolutely.
- [30:51]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. All right, fan artists.
- [30:53]
Anna
That I was just about to say.
- [30:54]
Carissa Broadbent
So let me know. Let me know if you want me to commission you for this, because I will throw money at you to make it happen.
- [30:59]
Kim
So we would love to see it. Same. Okay. We are going to round out our spoiler free discussion with a fun little game. And we would love for you to describe Songbird in three words. And after you give us your three words, we will Tell you what our three words are.
- [31:12]
Carissa Broadbent
Oh, okay. Damn. All right. I'll say heart, wrenching, epic, creepy.
- [31:22]
Kim
Great, great ones. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Ours are tormented, passionate, and vulnerable.
- [31:30]
Carissa Broadbent
Ooh, I like those words. I like those words even better than my words.
- [31:34]
Anna
Well, we spent a long time. Thesaurus. Thanks.
- [31:36]
Kim
We did.
- [31:37]
Carissa Broadbent
I love it. That's great. That's fabulous.
- [31:40]
Anna
We loved. So much fun. We had so much fun. Well, Carissa, that wraps up our interview. We have had so much fun having you on and discussing. And thank you so much for joining us and taking the time to discuss the crowns on Iaxia and your new book, the Songbird and the Heart of Stone. It's been our pleasure to have you on.
- [31:56]
Kim
Yeah.
- [31:57]
Carissa Broadbent
This has been so much fun. Thank you so much for having me. This was really, really wonderful. So thank you for inviting me.
- [32:02]
Anna
Oh, you're welcome. Thank you. Hi, listeners. Before we said goodbye to Karissa after interviewing her on the Crowns of Nyaxia series, Kim and I just could not let her sign off without telling her how much we loved the War of Lost Hearts series. So we were originally not going to include this in the episode, but it was just a sweet and wonderful five minute discussion, and we decided to include it as a little bit of a bonus. But if you have not read the War of Lost Hearts, please tune out here and come back when you have because there are spoilers. And with that, here you go. I know we didn't get to discuss the War of Lost Hearts, but we just have to say, like, we would love to have you back on and to discuss it. That book. I mean, we could start crying thinking about it is literally, we. I think we don't go a week without talking about it. No.
- [32:47]
Kim
Oh, like, without a. And Rache, like, we were unwell.
- [32:51]
Anna
Unwell.
- [32:52]
Kim
I think that character is the most unique character I've ever read in a book ever. And we talk about. We'll just text each other sometimes. No one. And then we'll all just respond with sobbing emojis. Like, literally, we'll just be like, no one. And then we'll all just be like, oh, my God, no one.
- [33:09]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad. It was, like, a lot of fun to write. I say fun with, like, quotes because, you know, a little dark, but.
- [33:18]
Kim
Right.
- [33:19]
Carissa Broadbent
But yeah, that means a lot. So thank you. I would always. I know that's, like, my less popular series, but it's, like, always very meaningful to me when people. It's, like, very close to my heart. Daughter of no Worlds was, like, the only Book. Pretty much the only book I've ever written that was written, like, just for me, you know? Like, I. I had no, like, deadlines. Like, I was just writing it because I wanted to. So.
- [33:41]
Anna
Yeah, I love all of the books, but there is something special about the War of Lost Hearts when we were reading it that. I mean, like, we said it literally. It just never has left us. Us. The characters. Talk about morally gray. I think that is really, truly. I wanted to bring them up when we were having those. We were asking those questions because Rache. Aefa.
- [33:59]
Kim
Yeah.
- [34:00]
Anna
Oh, my God. Categon. I was 3am reading when categon dies, and I'm ugly sobbing. Yeah. Ugly sobbing when he dies in that battle. And I texted it to Kim, and then literally, like, the next book, he's, like, alive, but also, like. Like, evil killing so many people.
- [34:19]
Kim
Yeah.
- [34:20]
Anna
We're like, okay, how are we sobbing about him? And now we're like, what are you doing?
- [34:24]
Kim
Yeah.
- [34:25]
Anna
Oh, gosh. Okay. Sorry. We could go on and on.
- [34:27]
Kim
I know. We just had to bring it up. I was like, I cannot be in her presence and not bring up aa. Like, I cannot do it because it just. That character is incredible.
- [34:38]
Anna
She just needed to go to sleep.
- [34:40]
Carissa Broadbent
She was real tired, understandably. Real tired. I. Yeah. Poor Aoife. There's some stuff coming in the NYAXIA books that are kind of, like, exploring some similar themes, and I hope. I hope that you enjoy it as much.
- [34:58]
Kim
Oh, I'm sure we will. Intriguing.
- [35:01]
Anna
Yeah. We trust you.
- [35:03]
Kim
Yeah.
- [35:04]
Anna
So we're really excited. We're so excited. It's. It's, like, getting the arc was so wonderful to read, but then also, it's, like. Like a little bit longer that we have to wait.
- [35:12]
Kim
Yeah.
- [35:13]
Anna
Than everybody else and.
- [35:15]
Carissa Broadbent
But Bricks, I know. It's. It's much slower now. You know, like, it's. The pace is, like, a little different. And it's very weird for me, too, because I'm used to, like, you know, when you're indie, you write. Right, right, right, right. And you're working right up until the deadline, and then you press a button, and within 48 hours, the book is available everywhere to everybody.
- [35:32]
Kim
Yeah.
- [35:32]
Carissa Broadbent
So it's very much like you're immersed in it completely, and then it's out, and then everybody's talking about it. So now it's very different because it's like you're immersed in it completely. Like, Songbird is the most stressful book I've ever written ever in my entire life. It was, like, really wild. You know, you're pulling all your all nighters and shit like that. And then it just kind of goes off into the ether for like eight months and then people start talking about it like almost a year later. Yeah, it's very, very different experience. But I will happily give you an arc of the next book so that you're at least. At least you're staggered, you know, like, at least you're kind of waiting.
- [36:07]
Anna
There we go.
- [36:08]
Carissa Broadbent
The same amount.
- [36:09]
Anna
Anything, Anything. We'll take anything. That ending was beautiful. It was a great ending, but it was the kind of ending that leaves you like.
- [36:17]
Carissa Broadbent
What?
- [36:17]
Kim
It was amazing.
- [36:18]
Anna
But thank you so much, Carissa, for joining us. It really was.
- [36:21]
Kim
Yeah.
- [36:21]
Anna
Such a pleasure.
- [36:22]
Kim
Thank you.
- [36:23]
Carissa Broadbent
Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
- [36:25]
Kim
Okay, everybody, so that wraps up our interview with the wonderful Carissa Broadmund. We hope you guys enjoyed it as much as we did. She was so lovely to chat with. So this interview, of course, was spoiler free for Songbird, but after the release of Songbird, like Anna said at the beginning, we are going to be releasing a special section all about Songbird. All the spoilers, all the things, exclusively over on our Patreon. So please make sure you go over and join so that you are able to watch that because it was incredible.
- [36:55]
Anna
It was so much fun.
- [36:56]
Kim
Yeah. Yeah, you definitely want to go watch it.
- [36:59]
Anna
Yes.
- [36:59]
Kim
So that link, of course, will be in our show. Notes, notes. And make sure you're following us on Instagram at Flights of Fantasy podcast and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And until next time, cheers and happy reading.
- [37:09]
Anna
Cheers, listeners. Bye.