S5 : Ep 20 - ACOMAF: Revisited - Part 2

Summary

Flights of Fantasy Podcast Summary

Episode: Season 5, Episode 20 - ACOMAF: Revisited - Part 2
Release Date: July 8, 2025
Hosts: Anna, Kim, and Christina

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Introduction and Announcements

The episode kicks off with Anna welcoming listeners to Flights of Fantasy, the premier romantasy book club podcast. Joined by her co-hosts, Kim and Christina, the trio prepares to delve deep into Sarah J. Maas's acclaimed novel, A Court of Mist and Fury (ACOMAF).

Christina opens with heartfelt gratitude toward the podcast's supporters, urging listeners to rate and review the show to help it grow. She also highlights exciting updates on their Patreon page, including new series like Trending Pages, Cauldron Chats, and an exclusive SJM Series that offers in-depth explorations of characters and lore across Maas's universes. Christina enthusiastically encourages listeners to join their Patreon community for additional content and perks.

Notable Quote:

"We have launched three new series this summer for book besties."
— Christina [02:43]

Kim follows by giving shoutouts to notable Patreon supporters—Chelsea, Amber Reads, and Tiffany Montesino—expressing immense gratitude for their ongoing support.

Notable Quote:

"Thank you guys so much for supporting us. Your support means that we can continue to do this podcast and we are so, so grateful for all of you."
— Kim [04:25]

---

Spoiler Warning and Character Pronunciations

Anna reminds listeners that the podcast will discuss spoilers, given their comprehensive reading of the ACOTAR series. However, Christina has some crucial announcements to share before diving in.

A significant revelation comes from Anna regarding the pronunciation of the character Lucien. Based on insights from Elizabeth Evans, the voice actress for Feyre, Anna clarifies that Lucien should be pronounced with three syllables, deviating from the original recordings.

Notable Quote:

"Lucien is pronounced with three syllables instead of Lucien, which is how it was pronounced in the original recordings."
— Anna [05:08]

Kim humorously acknowledges the challenge of adjusting to this new pronunciation after a decade of saying his name differently.

Notable Quote:

"You can't get it much more direct from Sarah."
— Kim [05:36]

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Deep Dive into A Court of Mist and Fury

The hosts transition into their main discussion, analyzing key characters and themes from ACOTAF.

Lucien's Struggle and Tamlin's Control

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Lucien's internal conflict and his unwavering loyalty to Tamlin, despite witnessing Feyre's suffering. Christina emphasizes Lucien's trauma stemming from his past, particularly the murder of his loved one, Jess Menda, which shapes his decision to prioritize Tamlin’s directives over Feyre’s well-being.

Notable Quote:

"Lucien's mind is sad. So endlessly sad and guilt-ridden. Hopeless."
— Christina [14:05]

Kim draws parallels between Lucien and cult followers, highlighting his inability to challenge Tamlin's authoritarian rule.

Anna further explores Tamlin's descent into control as a response to trauma, comparing his behavior to the character Lennie from Of Mice and Men, who unintentionally causes harm despite his good intentions.

Notable Quote:

"Tamlin's idea of what love is is so twisted and warped."
— Anna [18:20]

Feyre's Transformation and Rhysand's Support

Feyre's character development is another focal point. After enduring severe emotional and physical strain under Tamlin's protection, she experiences a pivotal transformation when Rhysand intervenes. The hosts discuss how Rhysand's approach contrasts sharply with Tamlin's, offering genuine support and understanding, thereby validating Feyre's pain and providing her with the freedom she desperately seeks.

Notable Quote:

"Rhysand is asking for help because Feyre is a doer. She's never content to sit on the sidelines."
— Anna [30:16]

Christina highlights Feyre's internal realization that staying with Tamlin would lead her down a path of bitterness and emotional isolation, mirroring the shattered persona of the Lady of the Autumn Court.

Notable Quote:

"She didn't know how to go back to craving those things, to being docile. I didn't give in; I'm done."
— Christina [33:07]

Tamlin vs. Rhysand: Leadership Styles

The hosts compare Tamlin and Rhysand's leadership styles, illustrating how Tamlin's need for control leads to Feyre's captivity and emotional suppression, while Rhysand embodies a more compassionate and empowering leadership approach.

Notable Quote:

"Rhysand embodies Slytherins at their best—willing to do whatever it takes to protect those they love."
— Christina [40:33]

Anna further delves into Rhysand's strategic decisions, such as shielding Velaris to preserve its happiness, contrasting it with Tamlin’s inability to acknowledge Feyre's suffering.

Notable Quote:

"He made a hard choice to preserve a piece of happiness."
— Anna [40:21]

---

Fan Theory: Tamlin and Amarantha’s Mating Bond

Christina introduces a popular fan theory suggesting that Tamlin and Amarantha were intended to be mates. This theory posits that Amarantha's obsession with Tamlin and her refusal to physically harm him could be explained by a manipulated or unfulfilled mating bond. The theory explores how this bond's rejection might contribute to Tamlin's subsequent trauma and controlling behavior.

Notable Quote:

"If Amarantha and Tamlin were mates, could killing his mate, even if rejected, still leave him broken?"
— Christina [25:00]

Kim expresses openness to the theory, finding it a compelling explanation for Tamlin's complex emotions and actions post-Under the Mountain.

Notable Quote:

"Give me some sort of reason for it. I'm going to entertain that thought."
— Kim [25:04]

---

Comparative Analysis with Other Literary Works

The hosts draw insightful comparisons between characters from the ACOTAR series and those from other literary works, such as Harry Potter and Of Mice and Men. They discuss how Rhysand's leadership traits resonate with the best aspects of Slytherin House—strategic, protective, and ambitious—while Tamlin's inability to adapt mirrors more traditional, rigid leadership flaws.

Notable Quote:

"Rhysand is like, if I ever free her power, let's hope we're all dead."
— Christina [46:30]

---

Mastermind Section: Foreshadowing and Easter Eggs Across Sarah J. Maas's Universes

In their signature Mastermind segment, Christina leads a discussion on the intricate foreshadowing and Easter eggs embedded across Sarah J. Maas's Throne of Glass, Crescent City, and ACOTAR series. They explore connections such as:

1. Winnowing and Teleportation: Drawing parallels between the concept of winnowing in ACOTAF and teleportation as described in House of Sky and Breath, suggesting a shared magical mechanism within Maas’s universe.

   Notable Quote:

   "Winnowing is like folding the cloth so the two spots align. That's teleportation."
   — Christina [49:42]

2. The Tithe: Linking the concept of the tithe in ACOTAF with its appearances in Crescent City III, where it signifies the tribute of magical power, highlighting its evolved significance within Maas's world.

   Notable Quote:

   "In CC3, the Daglan were forced to make a tithe once a year to offer up kernels of our power."
   — Christina [51:22]

3. Character Connections: Speculating potential connections between characters like Lorcan Locken from Empire of Storms and locations in ACOTAF, suggesting a deep, intertwined lore that spans multiple series.

   Notable Quote:

   "Could Lorcan be connected to Velaris? The descriptions sound so similar."
   — Christina [57:19]

The segment underscores the rich, interconnected tapestry that Maas has woven across her novels, rewarding attentive readers with layers of depth and continuity.

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Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

As the episode wraps up, Anna teases the next installment, promising an exploration of Feyre's healing journey, the enigmatic Bone Carver, and the Weaver. The hosts invite listeners to join their vibrant community on Instagram and TikTok, encouraging engagement and discussion about their favorite romantasy moments.

Notable Quote:

"Keep dreaming, keep reading, and remember, every good story deserves to take flight."
— Kim [57:54]

---

Highlights from This Episode:

• Character Analysis: In-depth exploration of Lucien's trauma and Tamlin's controlling nature.
• Themes: The impact of trauma, the quest for freedom, and contrasting leadership styles.
• Fan Theory: The potential mating bond between Tamlin and Amarantha and its implications.
• Literary Comparisons: Drawing parallels between ACOTAR characters and those from Harry Potter and Of Mice and Men.
• Mastermind Insights: Uncovering foreshadowing and Easter eggs across Sarah J. Maas's literary works.

This episode of Flights of Fantasy offers a comprehensive and engaging analysis of A Court of Mist and Fury, enriched by thoughtful comparisons, fan theories, and interconnected lore discussions, making it a must-listen for fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

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[Anna]

Welcome to Flights of Fantasy, your Romantasy podcast book club. I'm Anna, joined by my book besties Kim and Christina, and together we're diving into the characters, theories, lore and magic behind all your favorite fantasy romance books. Hi book besties. We are so excited to be here discussing A Court of Mist and Fury, the second book in the ACOTAR series by Sarah J. Maas. And just a reminder, we will be breaking up each book into multiple episodes so that we can really take our time with this story. With that being said, and because we have read the series multiple times, we will be discussing each book with the knowledge of the entire series. But before we give our official spoiler warning, Christina has some announcements.

[Christina]

I sure do. Oh my gosh. First of all, big thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone who has rated and reviewed the show. If you haven't yet, pretty please, please take a moment to Go do so. It really makes a huge difference and we are so, so appreciative as always for you taking the time to do that and support, support us. And a quick reminder of what's going on over on Patreon. We have quite the summer lineup, friends. So as always, our tier one book besties get early ad free access to every episode plus our romance reviews and our tier two book betches get that as well as video episodes of every episode. And y', all, we have launched three new series this summer for book batches. Now first we have trending pages which we are so, so, so excited about, where we break down the hottest romantasy books everyone is talking about. We covered Shield of Sparrows in June and that was so much fun. Such a blast. And this month we are so excited to be bringing you Silver Elite. So get ready for that. We also have Cauldron chats which are exclusive for tier 2 where I break down an ACOTAR topic that you vote on and help choose. And last but not least, our beloved exclusive SJM series where we deep dive characters, couples and scenes from all three of Sarah's series. We have episodes on Dorian, Dorian and Kael, the Summer Court on more on Lele and so much more. So please, please, please come on over and join our Patreon family over at patreon.com flightsofantasypodcast we would absolutely love to have you. All right, speaking of Patreon, Kim, let's shout out some very special people.

[Kim]

Let's do it. So this week we are going to be shouting out Chelsea, Amber Reads and Tiffany Montesino. Thank you guys so much for supporting us. Your support means that we can continue to do this podcast and we are so, so grateful for all of you. Thank you. We love you.

[Christina]

We love you, Mike.

[Anna]

We do.

[Kim]

Okay, listeners, consider this your spoiler warning for every book in the ACOTAR series and let's dive in. But we have a very special important announcement. Anna.

[Anna]

We do. We do. Okay, so if you haven't already pleased, please go listen to our Elizabeth Evans interview. She is amazing. And as you all know, she recorded brand new ACOTAR recordings. She is the voice of Aelin to all of us. She is the voice of Bryce in Crescent City. And now she will be the voice of Feyre.

[Christina]

Yay.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

But she gave us a little insight after we were done recording book one of these episodes. But she did tell us that apparently Lucien is pronounced with three syllables instead of Lucien, which is how it was pronounced in the original recordings. So if you hear us saying that now, with a little added oomph to the name, that is. That is just us following what Sarah has told Elizabeth. She wants Lucien's name to be pronounced as. So we are taking it from the Queen herself.

[Kim]

That's right. That's right. You can't get it much more direct from Sarah.

[Anna]

Don't come at us.

[Kim]

Yeah, take it over, Sarah.

[Christina]

This is.

[Kim]

This is what she wants. Yes. So we're going to do our best. Obviously, it's been 10 years of saying Lucian, but we're going to power through because our Queen says so. Okay, so, speaking of Lucien. In the first part of the book, Lucien sees Feyre suffering and actively chooses not to help her. He's watching her waste away, watches Tamlin tighten his grip. And instead of stepping in, he just keeps telling Feyre to be patient, to wait for Tamlin to heal. Yes, some of that loyalty comes from Lucien's own trauma. If we remember from book one, Lucien lost the woman he loved, Jess Menda, when his brothers murdered her as he was forced to watch, which is incredibly traumatic. And he was so helpless in that scenario. Tamlin, in contrast, still has Feyre. And Lucian is clearly clinging to this idea that second chances are worth protecting at any cost. This is what he says to Feyre. Tamlin got what I didn't, Lucien said softly, his breathing ragged. We all heard your neck break. But you got to come back. And I doubt that he will ever forget that sound, either. And he will do everything in his power to protect you from that danger again. Even if it means keeping secrets. Even if it means sticking to rules you don't like. In this, he will not bend. So don't ask him to. Not yet.

[Christina]

Okay.

[Kim]

The yet thing. I'm like, he's not gonna change, Lucian. Like, he's not going to. It's not going to get better. There's always going to be a reason to keep her in the dark.

[Anna]

Well, eventually, in Acowor, he does try, but it's a little too late. At that point, the damage is done. And you done fucked up in a way that we can't come back from.

[Christina]

No. And poor Feyre. Everyone is just telling her it's about Tamlin. It's about Tamlin. Like, we have to do this for Tamlin, for the people, for our im. Nothing is about Feyre. No one cares about how Feyre feels.

[Kim]

No, it's really as. As Jojo said. It's just too little, too late.

[Anna]

What a great song.

[Christina]

Wow. What a deep cut.

[Kim]

Do you remember that Song.

[Anna]

Oh, absolutely. I do.

[Kim]

What a throwback.

[Christina]

It's like.

[Kim]

It's classic. That's right. Exactly. So it's clear that Lucien prioritizes Tamlin's fear over Feyre's freedom, which is essentially just enabling her suffering. Like you guys just said, Tamlin's feelings are more important than Feyre's. And we know for a fact that the inner circle, Cassian, Azriel Moore, would never stand by and let Rhysand treat Feyre this way. And if we remember later on in this book, Mor immediately whisks Feyre away to the winter cabin after the whole mate convo. Keep in mind, Rhys and Mor are family in literally every sense of the word. They've known each other for hundreds of years. She's known Feyre for two seconds.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Feyre asks her, Mor immediately takes her away.

[Christina]

And I think that goes back to the fact that that is the relationship between Mor, Rhys, the relationship of respect, the relationship of equals, instead of Tamlin and Lucien, who are not equals. He is actually scared of Tamlin, but he's all Lucien has.

[Kim]

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Anna]

Lucian just gives me such cult energy.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

Like, he's a cult follower.

[Kim]

He is.

[Anna]

He is. Like, I'm sorry. And I like, listen, he does get better in Acowar, and he does try and right his wrongs, but it takes Elaine Wetcat becoming his mate for that to happen.

[Kim]

It does.

[Anna]

I'm sorry, but it does. And it's like, listen, without followers, we don't have leaders. And I'm sorry, Lucien, but you are a follower.

[Kim]

He is.

[Christina]

And that's okay in some ways. But also, still have your own agency and your own.

[Anna]

Absolutely.

[Christina]

But he would be a great cult follower, though. He is.

[Anna]

But Tamlin is this cult leader in this, you know, argument and what is called sex and money. We have Kalanmai, and he pushes Lucien to complete the rite because somebody's gotta umph the energy, you know, the magic into the land. And Tamlin's not gonna do it.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And you know, you always wonder who's gonna join a cult.

[Kim]

Well, Lucian and Wood.

[Anna]

Sorry, honey. Your first name on the list.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Let's go into the money part of the cult, which would be the tithe.

[Anna]

Oh, yes.

[Christina]

Great tie in. Kim was really good.

[Kim]

Kim. I'm really proud of that one.

[Christina]

Go, Linda. Hair flip. Gotta do the Glinda.

[Kim]

Hair flip.

[Christina]

Have to do it. Yeah. Every time. Okay. All right. Yes. Let's quickly touch on the tithe and what follows right after. Because Nelly. Okay.

[Kim]

Oh, God.

[Christina]

So Feyre watches as Faye from across the spring court come to offer payments to Tamlin. And she sees firsthand how broken this system is. Especially when a desperate water wraith, on behalf of all the water wraiths, advises they can't afford to pay their dues because there's no fish left in the lake.

[Anna]

Okay?

[Christina]

So Tamlin hears this and says, all right, well, you have three days. You can bring double or you can die. So those are your options. Okay, that's it. So I guess create some fish in the lake I don't like. What is she supposed to do? There's no fish.

[Kim]

There's no fish. She's like, well, then bring me double.

[Christina]

There's no fish. All right? And I also love Feyre here, leans over and she's like, we don't need a basket of fish.

[Kim]

We don't need it.

[Anna]

We don't need the.

[Christina]

Tamlin's like, that's not the way. Quiet.

[Anna]

Rhysand would argue that she does because she's so thin.

[Christina]

But true, true.

[Kim]

But Tamlin, he doesn't notice that.

[Christina]

No. So Feyre is not pleased. So she secretly gives the water wraith her jewelry because she doesn't need it. And now they can pay their debt. This isn't quiet act of kindness, but a really pivotal one. Alice later tells her the water wraiths won't forget. And they don't, ladies and gentlemen, which we see later when they come to her aid in the Summer court. All right. The next morning, though, Tam. Tam is unhappy about what has gone down here. He is pissed. He is accusing Feyre of undermining him and making him look weak, which. Oh my God, the toxic masculinity. But Feyre stands up to him. Here she says, quote, you still have no idea what it was like for me to be on the verge of starvation for months. Months at a time. And you can call her a glutton, her being the water wraith, you can call her a glutton all you like. But I have sisters too. And I remember what it felt like to return home without any food. So maybe she'll spend all the money on stupid things. Maybe she and her sisters have no self control. But I'm not going to take that chance and let them starve because of some ridiculous rule that your ancestors invented. Yes.

[Kim]

Yes, Feyre.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Christina]

Girl is the queen. This is a high lady.

[Kim]

This is a leader.

[Anna]

Yes, it is a leader.

[Christina]

Oh my God. And Lucian even actually defends Feyre. But that's short lived because Tamlin then acts like the Smallest man who ever lives and belittles Lucien, saying, did I ask for your opinion, y'?

[Anna]

All? I just.

[Kim]

This is gross behavior from Tamlin. This is your best friend.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kim]

This is your closest advisor in your court. Like you guys have been friends for.

[Anna]

I mean, half a century. At the very least.

[Kim]

At the very least. Did I ask for your opinion?

[Christina]

Fudge.

[Kim]

All the way off. That is so rude.

[Anna]

Can you imagine Rhysand saying this to Kathleen or Azriel? He would never.

[Christina]

He would never again. Rhys would never watch. And so Feyre is begging Lucian in her mind to fight back, to say something, to push back. She's saying, we're in the right. He's wrong. And she's so worked up that she just accidentally. Bloop. Goes into his mind, just into Lucian's brain. Whoopsie. And it's very funny to note that later when Rhys finds out about her going into Lucien's mind, he'll say, oh, what a miserable place to be. And he's not wrong, friends. He's not wrong.

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[Christina]

The way Feyre describes Lucien's mind is sad. So endlessly sad and guilt ridden. Hopeless. Oh, God, Lucien.

[Anna]

It's like, it's interesting to see him when he kind of starts to come out of it in Acowor. And how different he is when he realizes and sees. When he walks into the townhouse and he says, this is why you wanted to be here.

[Christina]

And he's given the opportunity to be a part of it. Right now. He has no other option. You know, he is hopeless.

[Kim]

So.

[Christina]

Speaking of hopeless. All right, so Tamlin apologizes to Feyre. He then buys Feyre another goddamn paint set. Guys, if you were paying iota of attention, you would notice that your fiance hasn't painted in months and is currently having a panic attack just looking at the red paint. Like, just it being in her eyesight, she's having a panic attack.

[Anna]

She can't.

[Christina]

And he says to her, he's so close here. He says, here, quote, I thought if you started painting again. Feyre thinks, I waited for him to finish, period. He didn't. Period. Because it is physically impossible for him to address her emotions, he literally cannot do it. So Feyre then starts begging for Tamlin to loosen the reins and give her some freedom, to which he says, no. And then Feyre, our girl says, then marry someone who can put up with this. Yes. Girl. She's saying things like, she's drowning. She's saying, I'm drowning. I'm drowning. And quote, you might as well be shoving my head under the water.

[Anna]

Tam Tam's not gonna like that.

[Christina]

I'll tell you what happens. Tam Tam hears this, and instead of saying, what? Oh, my God, I can't believe I'm making you feel like that. This is really important emotional stuff. We should talk about it. No. Tamlin explodes in anger. Red flag alert. Feyre quote, one breath, the study was intact. The next, it was shards of nothing. A shell of a room. None of it had touched me from where I dropped the floor, my hands over my head. Oh, God. This is. It's really hard to read. It's hard to deep dive into, but I think it's extremely pivotal turning point for everyone involved.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

Yes, absolutely.

[Anna]

And this is where I kind of want to pivot and talk a little bit about Tamlin and his journey that we're seeing after the Mountain. So, obviously, both Tamlin and Feyre are survivors from under the mountain, but their trauma manifests in opposite ways. Feyre unravels outwardly. Right. We can see it happening. She's literally wasting away. She's consumed by nightmares and grief. And whereas Tamlin is imploding inwardly, he's haunted by how powerless he was to save her. I mean, we would argue that he wasn't so much as powerless as he just chose not to. But Tam. Tam doesn't see it that way.

[Christina]

So.

[Anna]

And this is his journey that we're talking about.

[Christina]

Sure.

[Anna]

But anyways, his response to feeling helpless is to try and control everything. He wants to control Feyre, the court, his own emotions, et cetera. Just like under the mountain, though, when Feyre fought and bled and Tamlin did nothing. He now lies beside her at night while she is vomiting in the toilet. And he does nothing again. He pretends not to notice when we know that he can hear it once again. That silence, his inaction that we talk about at the end of Acotar feels like a sense of abandonment. He leaves her to her own grief.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Anna]

He doesn't help her heal. Tamlin buries the pain under this facade of protection. He locks doors, he posts guards, et cetera. The tighter Tamlin tries to hold on, the more Feyre pulls away and it is suffocating her. Like you just said, Christina.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And it always reminds me of Lenny from Of Mice and Men.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Anna]

Which I feel like most of us had to read in high school where Lenny is just wants to love this puppy so much and he is just cradling it and squeezing it and he literally suffocates it. He squeezes it to death. And I feel like that is Tamlin. He doesn't know what to do. And there's a. There's a great quote I'm gonna read in a second that I really think brings that home. But Tamlin, I feel like basically wants to go back to the status quo after the end of the mountain. Like I think if he could erase the last 50 years, he wants to. That's what he wants to do. But it's unrealistic. Like we can't just pretend the past didn't happen. Right. That's not where we are. It's Delululand. And like Rhysand says, Tamlin wants Feyre to be this quote, doe eyed damsel. That's what he says to her when she first arrives in the night court for the first time. Tamlin wants her to remain silent. He wants her to be small. He wants her to be the lady of Spring. You know, just like the Autumn Court lady.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

Yeah, exactly.

[Anna]

Yeah. The big point here is that Tamlin's failure isn't just that he can't save Feyre from her nightmares. It's that he refuses, like we keep saying, to even just acknowledge them. I mean, so I think the big question here is how much of Tamlin's love is about Feyre and how much of it is about his own guilt. And his need to control the narrative. Right. And is this safety enough when it comes to the cost of Feyre's freedom?

[Christina]

Absolutely.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

I think it shifted after under the Mountain. I think it's now taken over his love. It's now, like, over encompassed. Anything about Feyre. Yeah, she's not even a part of the equation, really. Like, she's a means to him. Feeling better. He's protecting her.

[Anna]

This is in the Summer Court that Rhysand says this to Feyre. He looks at her and he says, he, meaning Tamlin. He locked you up because he knew. The bastard knew what a treasure you are, that you are worth more than land or gold or jewels. He knew and wanted to keep you all to himself. The issue isn't whether he loved you, it's how much. Too much love can be a poison. Oh, it goes back to, like, the whole Lenny of Mice and Men. Like, you can't. He's suffocating her.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

His idea of what love is is so twisted and warped.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And like Feyre says, at some point later in the book, something festered in the Spring Court.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Anna]

You know, and this is an interesting little pausing point right here, because Christina has a very interesting theory that she wants to bring to the table. So, Christina, take it away.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Now let's take a little detour to fan theories with Christina, you know?

[Anna]

Okay.

[Christina]

Because there is a very popular theory. We would be remiss not to mention that Tamlin and Amarantha were actually mates. Okay. Friends. Now, some people think this is actually the missing puzzle piece when it comes to understanding just how deep Tamlin's trauma goes after under the Mountain. All right. Friend of the Pod, Trisha is a big supporter of this theory, so I did ask her to help me with some speaking points today as I present it to the Council. So thank you, Trisha. Thank you, Trisha, for your expertise. Okay, so first thing to note here, the theory is that Amarantha and Tamlin were mates. Amarantha accepted the bond. Tamlin rejected it. This is the theory. Here's why people believe it. I'm going to run through the highlights. Okay, so first point is all throughout under the Mountain, Amarantha never physically hurts Tamlin. We see her be very comfortable hurting everyone else. It's her whole personality. She rips out Lucian's eyeball. She tortures people left and right. When it comes to Tamlin, she will not physically harm him. She's like, oh, put a curse on you instead. And it's always about punishing Lucian. She never Physically touches him. Rhys even says, quote, I wonder how she'd punish you. Or perhaps she'd stay true to habit and punish Lucian instead. He still has one eye to lose, after all. Fair, he's not wrong. He still has one eye to lose. God, that killed me. So, another interesting thought here. If you go back and really think about it, Tamlin never speaks ill of Amarantha. He is never talking about mad shit on Amarantha, even though everyone else is. Is this a part of the curse? Or is it just an interesting note that maybe he has some conflicting feelings? Also interesting note, we know his parents mating bond was terrible and toxic. Could this be history repeating itself? Ooh, also to my previous note, his mother, even though she was in this toxic mating bond, never spoke ill of his father, her mate. So that's very interesting. All right. Also, could this explain Amarantha's obsession with Tamlin? Like, it's been centuries and like, he's surprise pony. It's Tamlin. Like, he's great and all, but he's not the most powerful. And in her personality, it seems strange to just obsess this much. Where is this obsession on just him coming from? She can have anything she wants. She's so powerful and instead she's like, oh, Tamlin. She's obsessed with bedding him and making him her consort, which some people think is her way of thinking, if I can have sex with him, then the mating bond will click into place and it'll, like, trick him into accepting it. Maybe because having sex with your mate shakes mountains and all that stuff. Yes. So it does.

[Kim]

It's earth shattering.

[Christina]

It's earth shattering.

[Anna]

Shattering.

[Christina]

Quite literally. Okay. Also, we have to remember, she brutally tortured Claire out of jealousy. And then later, Feyre, is it like, if I can't have my mate, no one can have my mate? Okay. Could that be part of her motivation? Could this also be explained why Tamlin is so desperate to fall in love with Feyre and to get married? He's trying to prove to himself he's not meant to end up with Amarantha. Yes, it is also the curse. But after that's lifted, is he like, we have to get married, It'll be fine. Like, yeah, it's fine. The wedding is just really, you know, top of mind. Also, to speak about mating bond, it's interesting that Tamlin never talks about having a mating bond with Feyre. Feyre thinks it'll click into place after the wedding. Tamlin never mentions or talks to her about when their mating bond would click into place if they will have a mating bond. Anything about the two of them having a mating bond? Which is weird.

[Anna]

It's always been weird to me every time I read it.

[Christina]

Yes. Is that because he already had a mate?

[Anna]

Yeah. Feyre talks about waiting for it to click.

[Christina]

Exactly. She thinks it might happen after the wedding.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

But he never addresses it at all.

[Kim]

No.

[Christina]

Okay, so one big receipt that people talk a lot about is when Amarantha is dying, when Tamlin is going to kill her in his BC mode. She looks at him and says, please. It's a very strange, vulnerable act from her. It's really out of character.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And in the universe of this theory, could that have a little more weight to it in that moment?

[Kim]

Oh, that's. I forgot she said that.

[Anna]

Yeah, she does. Yeah.

[Kim]

It's, like, so weird.

[Christina]

It's jarring.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Another thing. This is Trisha's find here. So when Tamlin actually kills Amarantha, there's a very interesting tidbit we want to note. Amarantha is screeching, kicking, trying to get at Tamlin, but she can't physically touch him because of a gold shimmering encompassing him in his fur, like a second skin. Quote, Amarantha screeched, kicking at Tamlin, lashing at him with her dark magic, but a wall of gold encompassed his fur like a second skin. She couldn't touch him. Is that some sort of mating magic? That's like, you can't physically hurt your mate.

[Kim]

Hurt your mate?

[Christina]

Yeah, we've never seen that because we've never seen a mate want to physically hurt their mate.

[Kim]

Yeah. Right.

[Anna]

But then he does kill her, so it doesn't protect her.

[Christina]

She doesn't have it on.

[Kim]

Tamla is the one that has it.

[Christina]

On because she wouldn't be able to hurt him because she accepted the mating.

[Kim]

Bond and he didn't.

[Anna]

Interesting. Okay.

[Christina]

But really, just. Could this help explain his behavior after under the moun? Even if Tamlin rejected the mating bond, could killing Amarantha still be some sort of root of his trauma? Like, would killing your mate, even if you rejected the bond, still be this, like, upsetting, devastating pain that he doesn't want to address because he doesn't want to address that feeling? Sure. So is him not wanting to talk about under the Mountain also looped into this? Is it also easier not to speak her name because he didn't want to face the fact that he has any of those conflicting feelings, that any of this even occurred in Joe?

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Oh, that's so interesting.

[Christina]

That's. That Theory.

[Kim]

Oh, my gosh. You know what? Anything that would excuse his behavior.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Kim]

Give me some sort of reason for it. I'm. I will entertain that thought.

[Christina]

I think it's really fun to think about. It's just like a fun headcany thought.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Will it ever come back up again? She's dead. But it could. This could be part of his redemption arc.

[Kim]

His redemption arc? Yeah.

[Christina]

I was struggling through this. I don't know, some piece of why he became just this. So broken and twisty.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Also, this would kind of help his redemption arc if he is to get one.

[Kim]

Yes, I think so.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And I don't know, maybe it would make sense. It'd be a big poetic mate thing. If Elain maybe doesn't end up with Lucien, she ends up with Tamlin, they both end up with. Not their mate.

[Kim]

They both reject their mate. Ended up with each other.

[Christina]

Yes. It's an interesting parallel. Possibly.

[Kim]

That's very interesting.

[Christina]

So, yes, there's that. Hope you had fun at fan theories with Christina. Okay.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

I love it.

[Kim]

I love it. Love it.

[Anna]

Okay, so bringing us back into Acomaf. Shortly after Tamlin magical temper tantrum that he has after Feyre tells him that maybe he should find someone else to marry, Rhysand shows up again to call in the bargain. It's been three weeks. Feyre is even thinner and more depressed.

[Indeed Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Than the last time Rhysand saw her. And he is concerned. He literally takes one look at her, turns to Tamlin, and he says, are you running low on food here?

[Kim]

Like. And Tamlin's like, what? She looks fine to me.

[Christina]

Wow.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And Tamlin's like, I didn't even notice.

[Kim]

I see nothing wrong.

[Anna]

Nothing to see here, folks.

[Christina]

Jesus. All right, take us. Take us back to the happy place, Kim.

[Kim]

I would love to. So we are back in the Night court, and Rhys is obviously very, very troubled by the fact that Feyre's clearly unwell. He says, what the hell happened to you? She's like, why don't you just look inside my head? Even as I said it, the words had no bite. I didn't bother to shove him. As I stepped out of his hold. He gave me a wink. Where's the fun in that? I didn't smile. No shoe throwing this time. I could almost see the other words in his eyes. Come on, play with me.

[Christina]

Oh, exactly.

[Kim]

So Rhysand is pissed because Feyre is obviously wasting away, but he continually tries to communicate with her and help her. Tamlin, take a fucking note. Okay, so this is from Chapter 11 Rhys says, Tell me what to do to help you. Let me help you. We went through enough under the mountain. She wins. That bitch wins if you let yourself fall apart. And it is so clear that this visit is not about training. It's not about deals. It is about recognizing Feyre's pain. It is about offering something that looks like a real partnership.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Christina]

Yes. And I love this juxtaposition here, too, of him saying, if you don't talk about it, Amarantha wins compared to Tamlin saying, if we talk about it, Amarantha wins.

[Anna]

So different, right?

[Christina]

It's so different.

[Kim]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, when we're in the Spring Court, we only get Feyre's misery because it's her pov. But no one else, obviously, like we've said, is even acknowledging that she's wasting away. But here in the Night Court, we finally get to see someone else notice Feyre's unhappiness. And it's just like, thank God. Finally, someone is like, kate, we're gonna need to discuss this, because you're not doing well.

[Anna]

This is not.

[Christina]

And it almost feels like validation as the reader, too, because you get to this point where you're like, okay, thank you. Yeah, you're in her head. So you also feel this sense of like, oh, thank God. Finally.

[Anna]

Yeah, you're 100 pages in. You're like, this girl is breaking. Can somebody please reach out a hand?

[Kim]

Yep.

[Anna]

Ask her how she's doing.

[Kim]

I mean, the bar is on the ground. Rhysand's like, I'm gonna lift it up. And he does.

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[Kim]

Not open up to Rhysand because she is so broken. So Rhysand decides that he is going to open up to Feyre, and this is what he says. I was a prisoner in her court for nearly 50 years. I was tortured and beaten and fucked until only telling myself who I was, what I had to protect, kept me from trying to find a way to end it. Please help me keep that from happening again.

[Anna]

To Prythian, the vulnerability and then the fact that he's asking for her help.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

He's giving her a purpose. He's not like, just sharing with her and being like, okay, let's not talk about this anymore. He's, like, asking for help because Farrah is a doer.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Anna]

She's never content to sit on the sidelines. That's the whole point at the beginning of this book. And he's like, like, please help me. I need your help. I'm asking you to help.

[Kim]

Yes, exactly. Whereas Tamlin is like, I don't need your help. Stay at home. Like, I don't need you.

[Anna]

Yeah, go find some. Something to polish.

[Kim]

Go find a vacuum. Ultimately, though, Feyre doesn't even know how to help herself. She's reached a breaking point. And not even Rhysand's taunting is pulling you out of it. And it's really interesting to reflect. Later in Acomafe, she wonders to herself if she would have become a shell of a person if she had stayed with Tamlin in the Spring Court. And then if her sadness would have turned to bitterness and she would just end up hurting those around her because she's such an angry person who has to keep everything inside.

[Christina]

Exactly. And I think this is such an interesting parallel to the lady of the Autumn Court, because Feyre would have ended up just like the lady of the Autumn Court, this shell of a person married to someone who isn't her true love, not with who she wants to be with, not where she's meant to be. And it's so sad. We see what Feyre could have become.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Oh, gosh. When you see the lady of the Autumn Court in Acowor at the High Lord's meeting and just how broken she is, and Helian is sitting right there.

[Christina]

And he's just looking at her and she won't look at him. I need. I need their. I need the novella. I need something.

[Anna]

Her and Baron I don't believe are mates. And I don't know that her and Helian are mates, but I'm pretty sure they're not. Because it was an arranged marriage to help produce strong heirs.

[Kim]

Well, yeah, mates are supposed to be rare. I think we've deviated a little bit from that.

[Anna]

But yes, they're supposed to be rare. And Sarah was like, let's make every human turned Fae have a mate.

[Kim]

But they're rare. But not for the Archeron sisters and the Bat boys. But other than that, they're very rare.

[Christina]

Super dupes. Okay. All right. So, friends, we're going back to the Spring Court. But it's the last time, y', all we could do this. Here we go. So let's remember, Feyre has repeatedly asked Tamlin to ignore include her in his meetings, in his visits to nearby villages, even just to train and learn how to defend herself. But every time she is shut down. Why? Because Taemon says it would, quote, send the wrong message. They need to look like a united front. Him as the protector and Feyre is the silent, smiling bride in his arm. And it's so disgusting. But this time when she returns to the Night Court, something has shifted. Rhysand's words have gotten under her skin in the best way. And she doesn't want to let Amarantha win. She's angry and restless and un. Practically begging Tamlin to let her come.

[Kim]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Christina]

And what does he do?

[Kim]

Oh, guys, he locks her up.

[Christina]

Let's like talk about not having an understanding of her emotional pain and her as a person not understand the gravitas of how triggering this would be. For her to feel trapped after under the Mountain. And where she currently stands in her mental state is so shocking and also so telling for Tamlin. He puts up this magical barrier around the house that she can't even pass her hand through an open window. She is trapped. She's stuck. And this is the moment that Tamlin's so called protection crosses the line into captivity. Yes, that's what it turns into.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Christina]

And it is a huge turning point for Feyre. She thinks, quote, that girl who had needed to be protected, who had craved stability and comfort, she had died under the mountain. I had died. And there had been no one to protect me from those horrors before my neck snapped. So I had done it myself. And I would not, could not yield that part of me that had awoken and transformed under the mountain. Tamlin had gotten his Powers back had become whole again, become that protector and provider he wished to be. I was not the human girl who needed coddling and pampering, who wanted luxury and easiness. I didn't know how to go back to craving those things, to being docile. This quote is amazing from her because it really. It just hits the nail on the head of what Feyre actually gave in her relationship to Tamlin. She changed herself. And she's done with it. She's absolutely done. It's. It's so good to see from her, even though it is in this horrible, horrible context. So Tamlin does lock her up. And Feyre's magic erupts. Guys, listen to this quote. I was ensconced in a cocoon of darkness and fire and ice and wind. A cocoon that melted that ring right off my finger. Yeah.

[Kim]

Love it.

[Anna]

Love it.

[Christina]

I'm obsessed with the fact that the magic was like, we're done with this. And vital. Like this emerald just falls to the ground.

[Kim]

That's right.

[Christina]

And guys, down the bond. Rhys feels this, and he does not hesitate. He sends Mor. And Mor arrives. And she doesn't say, you're safe, she says, you're free. Because that's what Feyre needs to hear. And Mor knows that from her own past, she knows what Feyre needs in this moment. It's this like, woman to woman, amazing start of their friendship. She picks her up and she takes her back to the Night Court. Yeah, well, really, she takes her across state lines and then Rhys takes her to the Night Court. But fine, but they're back in the Night Court, people. Praise be. Woo. We're back, everybody. And we're staying. Because this rescue wasn't part of the bargain. So she's not obligated to return to the Spring Court unless she wants to. Rhysand tells her he has business elsewhere in the Lands and suggests she take some time to rest. But Feyre, our girl, is done resting. She's done being sidelined. She is done waiting for someone to give her permission to exist. So she asks, asks Rhys to take her with him. And for the first time in a long time, someone says yes to Feyre. Yeah, but I love it. Rhys makes one thing very clear. What he says is, what you're about to see must remain a secret. Not because Rhys is being super mysterious about it. It's because lives, his people's lives, depend on it. So if you come with me, you cannot ever say anything about this to anyone at all. Ever. She's like, easy peasy, let's go agrees and says, where are we going to? Which he says, to Velaris. The City of Starlight. I love it so much.

[Anna]

I love it so much.

[Kim]

I'm so happy.

[Anna]

Okay, guys, we are back. It is like coming home. And honestly, Feyre kind of feels the same way.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I love this quote that she has when she first lands in the townhouse. She, like, looks around and the quote that she says, this house. This house was a home that had been lived in and enjoyed and cherished and. Oh, yes, it has been. I. The townhouse is my favorite. Like, I know we've got the House of Wind and then they've got the river house that Feyre ends up in. In, like, Akisoff. But I love the townhouse. I'm a city girl. I'm a city mouse.

[Kim]

Yep, that's right.

[Anna]

And I. I just love it. I love the vibes. It feels, like, cozy.

[Christina]

It's lived in while being fancy and nice.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

So interesting. She notes this because it's very clear that's not how Tamlin's manor felt.

[Anna]

I'm picturing, like, pre war brownstone.

[Kim]

Yep, 100%.

[Anna]

That's the vibe I'm getting. I love it so much.

[Christina]

Okay.

[Anna]

So anyways, she arrives, but she's still broken. She's still like, I wanted to come here because I didn't want to be left behind. But then she hears all these voices outside the door, and it's. Of course, we know it's Cassian and Azrael and Amren Rhysand says, like, you can meet them now or you can go take a rest. And she's like, I'm going to peace out. She sees a little disappointment in his eyes, but he's like, of course. Go ahead. Go upstairs. Because he understands also why he gives her a choice.

[Kim]

That's right. He's a respectful king.

[Anna]

So she goes upstairs and she sees Nuala and Cerridwen. They are in their solid forms.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So. Which was kind of different. They were, like, in their wraithy, wispy forms under the mountain. But she goes and she takes a nap, and then when she wakes up, she's like, all right. She gets dressed. I love the outfit. She's, like, in leggings and, like, an oversized sweater and love. I'm picturing, like, Oxford loafer.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Anna]

I just love the whole vibe.

[Kim]

Like, I am very here for it.

[Christina]

So cute. Doesn't she have, like, a peacoat? She's just, like. She puts on a little peacoat. Yeah.

[Kim]

Oh, and Reese notices it, and it's.

[Christina]

Like, she looks so good.

[Anna]

Night Court looks good on you.

[Kim]

Yeah, it does.

[Anna]

Does. So she goes downstairs and he's like, okay, let's. Let's go for a walk. And they go outside and he shows her Velaris, the City of Starlight. And the first thing she notices is that the sun is up. Like the birds are chirping. There is grass.

[Kim]

There's grass, you guys, you know.

[Anna]

You know, there's grass and there are children laughing in the streets. And this strikes Feyre. She is kind of in shock, honestly, but it's beautiful and it's magical. And the city was clearly untouched by Amarantha's reign. And Rhysand, you know, he talks about having to make really hard, hard and fast decisions when he felt Amarantha's curse, you know, when it was stripping away his powers and he could only shield one city. And so he chose to shield the city that has been unknown to every other Court for millennia. And what he says is, we allow the world to see the other half, to fear them, so that they might never guess this place thrives here. And we allow the Court of Nightmares to continue blind to Velaris existence because we know that without them, there are some courts and kingdoms that might strike us and invade our borders to discover the many, many secrets we've kept from the other high lords in Courts these millennia.

[Christina]

I love it.

[Anna]

And it's just interesting because, you know, Feyre is. She's a little confused and she's a little upset because she has seen the Spring Court be brought to ruin by Amarantha. And I think she sees this and she was like, how is this untouched? And what she says to him is, so what? Your pampered people, those who can't shield their minds, they get your protection and don't have to fight while the rest of us bleed. And coming from where she has been, it's a very understandable viewpoint.

[Kim]

Yeah, that's valid.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And what Rhysand says is, my. My people are blameless. It was my choice. Like, I had to make a hard choice. And I really want to pin that for the mass verse section later.

[Christina]

Yes, yes.

[Anna]

But I just. It was. I love this conversation that they have because I feel like if you're a first time reader and you're reading this, you're going well. Yeah. Like, how come these people are okay, Rhysand, how did you make that decision? And it is a hard choice and rulers have to make difficult choices. And he was like, I only had enough power. He explains it a couple times. Actually, throughout the book. But he says, I only had enough power to shield one place, and I either could shield one place or shield nothing, and everyone would have suffered. And so I chose to preserve a piece of happiness.

[Christina]

Yes. And this goes back to something we kind of touched on in our first round of episodes, but tying it back to Harry Potter as we do that, Rhys at the Night Court embody Slytherins at their best. Like, good Slytherins.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Christina]

Because they are willing to do whatever it takes to protect those they love, even if it means getting their hands dirty and becoming and seeming like villains to everyone else. Like, that doesn't matter to them that what really matters is protecting the people they love and doing what needs to get done. And he has that quote where he says, as long as the people who matter most know the truth, I don't care about the rest. That is what the whole Night Court really embodies. And Tamlin, on the other hand, is the worst type of Gryffindor, I would argue, because he's so fixated on his own noble image, that he'd rather preserve his pride and look honorable than take uncomfortable but necessary actions. Like, never risk looking bad. He'd never risk that tarnishing his image, even if it's what needs to get done to help people.

[Kim]

Yep, absolutely. That's such a great point. And like, the whole why Feyre can't train, it's because, oh, the optics look bad.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

It's like, but if that's what needs to happen, who cares what other people think?

[Christina]

Yes, exactly.

[Anna]

Yes. So Rhysand walks her through the rest of Velaris. You know, it's broken up into four districts. And the most notable, of course, is the Rainbow, and that's the artist district. But Feyre is still in her broken headspace, and she's, like, not ready to walk through it. And it's something that she continues to walk up to that area a couple more times throughout the book until she finally works up the courage to walk through it. And then, obviously, we know that what she ends up doing is building a painting studio for people to work through their grief and their trauma. And she helps a lot of children after the war. And it's an important part of her healing journey, the art. But right now, she's still in her. Like, I can't even look at art. Like, I can't look at paint without seeing those two fairies that she had to kill. We do that, and then Rhysand is like, I would like for you to join us for dinner at the house. Of Wind and Kim. Will you walk us through this moment? It's one of my favorites in the book.

[Christina]

It's so good.

[Kim]

It's so fantastic. So Rhysand wants Feyre to meet his inner circle so that she can decide for herself whether or not she wants to work with them to try and stop Hybern. So he flies her up to the House of Wind. And immediately the vibe is so different from Tamlin's court. Like we touched on in the Spring Court. You feel like you're walking on eggshells because you don't want to piss Hamlin off. You don't want to say anything that could upset him. But here, there's no sense of pretentiousness at all. You can tell that they are a real family. This is a group of people who love each other and respect each other and view each other as very much equals. Yeah, immediately.

[Christina]

And it's so, so good.

[Kim]

It's so good to see them. You just miss them so much.

[Anna]

I love it so much.

[Kim]

So something really funny. And I always forget that Feyre is a little bit broken and, like, feisty and a little bit extra bitchy in this part. And it really, really reminds us of Nesta. Cassian is being his very playful, bantry self, which we love. And one of the first things that he asks Feyre is he's like, how the hell did you build that ladder during the Midding Guard Worm trial? And this is Feyre's response. And maybe it made me as mean as an adder. Maybe I relished being one. But I said, how the hell did you manage to survive this without anyone killing you?

[Christina]

I love it.

[Kim]

And Cassian immediately starts laughing. He loves it. So clearly Cassian has a thing for black cat women.

[Anna]

Cassie is like, he wants to hate vox. Like, he's like, make me angry. Like, let's fight.

[Kim]

Let's fight and then let's. I love it.

[Christina]

Lord of Bloodshed, you know?

[Anna]

Yes, exactly. No wonder he's into Nesta. He's like, God damn, bring his claws out.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

But I do love that he laughs in this moment like that. But it's an immediate break of any tension anywhere.

[Anna]

Because she's trying to be biting. Like she's trying to put up her armor. And he breaks it. He's like, all right, I'll play.

[Kim]

That's funny.

[Anna]

Let's do this. Cute.

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[Christina]

I also love this moment that Cassian's like, well, she must be important. Like, it's Reese's almost like girlfriend he's bringing to the party. Yeah. And then she says that to him. I love that. He's like, oh, Reese.

[Kim]

He's like, oh, let go, let's go. Wow. I love it.

[Christina]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Anna]

He's got like a new sister that he can, like, you know, banter with.

[Kim]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. Oh, it's so cute. So let's talk a little bit about command order within the inner circle. So Amren is Reese's second. We will get to her in a second. Moore is third and quote, who Rhysand will send in when both Cassian and Azriel have fallen. Y' all guys, I have highlighted and reread every single mention of More. We've done a deep dive on her over on our Patreon in our SJM series. I am no closer to understanding anything about More.

[Christina]

None.

[Anna]

She is who he brings out when everybody else has fallen. Besides Amren.

[Kim]

What?

[Anna]

I mean, we have ideas and theories that we talk about in our Patreon deep dive on her character. But like y', all.

[Christina]

Yeah. As we go. I'm really excited to follow this and this reread. We get nothing while also being told how important and powerful she is. Like, the gravitas is huge from the very get go.

[Kim]

Absolutely. But back to this group. So Amren is our tiny ancient one and she is scary as. As y' all like terrifying in this tiny little body. Rhysand is basically like, if I ever free her power, let's hope we're all dead. Which very important pin for later in the series.

[Anna]

Very important.

[Christina]

I also love this that his top two in command are women.

[Kim]

That's right. Yes. Oh, that's such a great point, Christina.

[Anna]

The court of dreams.

[Kim]

Also, they're really funny. I forgot that Cassian, like tries to flirt with Amren and is like, basically like joking like, about them sleep. He didn't get other. And I'm like.

[Anna]

Like, Asriel's hackles go up. He's like, oh, let's not poke the bear. Let's poke the tiny one.

[Kim]

Oh, God.

[Christina]

So funny. Oh, God. Also, when she's like, oh, Lord Cassian. And everyone just loses it loses their mind.

[Anna]

Like, he's like, I. That's hilarious that you think I'm a lord. No one has ever called me that.

[Kim]

But, like, I'm a straly. But, like, okay.

[Anna]

But that's what makes the Court of Dreams so amazing.

[Kim]

It is.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Kim]

So let's just quickly go over some big things that we learned from this dinner. So. But the King of Hybrid wants to resurrect Jurian from the ring. Remember, he was in the ring?

[Christina]

Eyeball man.

[Kim]

Yep, Eyeball man. And the King of Hybrid is going to use the cauldron to do it. And then the king wants to take down the wall and invade the human realms. Yeah. Not good. So Rhysand is like, we need to visit the bone carver for some answers if you're going to work with me. And Feyre kind of goes back and forth and has a lot of conversations at the dinner, but she does agree. Agree to work with Rhysand. And he's like, great. Love it. So we're gonna go visit the bone carver in the scary prison, and we're gonna get some answers on the book and the cauldron. And she's like, sorry, what?

[Christina]

And she's like, well, how bad could it be? And Cassian's like, really bad. Yeah.

[Anna]

Yeah. It's, like, really scary. Like, I. Like, I don't go in there, and I'm the Lord of bloodshed.

[Kim]

Yeah. So, like, we're setting the scene. It's not gonna be a fun field trip.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Christina]

But she gets to go on the field trip. Even just being involved here is such a fun thing also for the reader, because at this point, you're like, I've seen her sit around and be sad for a long time. I'm really excited about a mission as well. I'm excited for the field trip.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Anna]

Yeah. So this is where we are wrapping up this week's Acomath episode. Stay tuned for next episode. We're gonna be talking about Feyre's healing journey, the bone carver, the weaver, all of the things. So stay tuned for that. And now we are going to dive into our Mastermind section. Christina, will you lead us in?

[Christina]

Yes. Welcome to our favorite little corner of the episode, Mastermind, where we peel Back the curtain on all the brilliant foreshadowing plot threads and Easter eggs that Sarah J. Maas has planted across all three of her series since page one. A quick spoiler warning from here on out, friends, you have been warned. In addition to Acotar, we will be referencing the entire Throne of Glass series, the entire Crescent City series. So if you haven't finished those yet, cheers and happy reading. We'll see you next time. And if you're all caught up, let's go.

[Kim]

Let's dive in.

[Christina]

Okay, first up on the list is winnowing and the folding connection that spans across the mass verse. The way winnowing is described in Acomath is winnowing. Think of it as two different points on a piece of cloth. One point is your current place, the other is across the cloth where you want to go. Winnowing is like folding that cloth so the two spots align. If that sounded familiar to anyone's ears, that's because in House of Sky and Breath, Death Cormac describes teleporting as, quote, if you're folding two points on a piece of paper so the two points can meet literally the exact same thing.

[Kim]

Exact same thing.

[Christina]

Now, we also know that being able to teleport is much more rare in Crescent City. To quote Friends, it's not that common. It doesn't happen to every guy, and it is a big deal.

[Kim]

Oh, my God, I love that.

[Christina]

Christina, that's Team Cup Friends reference for you this morning.

[Kim]

I love that.

[Christina]

But given what we know of the shared history, it is logical to think that teleporting and winnowing are the same thing, just passed down through generations through the Avalon Fae. Now, is it diluted? Just going through generations? Is it diluted because of the parasite water? We don't really know. But we do think it's safe to say it is the same power.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Christina]

Now, all right, let's talk about Tog. Friends, the only two characters in Tog who can teleport or winnow are Fenris and Connell. Now, listen how Fenris describes this in Empire of Storms, saying, quote, it lets me slip between folds in the world.

[Kim]

Folds, guys.

[Christina]

Folds. Love it, guys.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Christina]

Okay, so number two, let's talk about the tithe. Because this isn't the only time we've seen a tiThe reference in CC3 when Bryce is telling the Inner Circle about the drop and explaining how some of their power is siphoned off and kind of equating it to attacks on their magic. We get this moment quote, Amren murmured to herself as if the words triggered something. A tithe. Ooh, very fun. Also in CC3, Selene confirms that the Daglan also instituted a tithe, saying, quote, we were forced to make the tithe to them once a year to offer up kernels of our power in tribute, to fuel their own power and to limit our own. So very interesting how tithe has moved along into CC3 throughout the history.

[Kim]

That's so interesting. I forgot that Amren said that.

[Anna]

Yeah, about the drop.

[Kim]

Yeah, that's so interesting.

[Christina]

And then she looks at Rhys as eyes kind of bold. She's like, what else? Keep going. It's really good.

[Kim]

Oh, my God, I love it. Okay, so we know that Rhys is a Demati. We also know another Demati rune from Crescent City, but they don't call it that in Crescent City. They call it a telepath. And Ruhn can mind speak, but he cannot read minds or go into minds like a Demodi can. Since we now know that Ruhn is likely a descendant of Rhys, they look exactly like each other.

[Anna]

When Bryce lands, she literally looks at Rhysand. She goes with Ruhn. Ruhn, Ruhn, is that you?

[Kim]

Okay, so like Christina had mentioned with the winnowing, it could also be, again, that the power is diluting over time between generations being passed down so that Rhysand was incredibly powerful and could do all these different things. And it's kind of diluted to where Ruhn can just mind speak, but can't control minds. Or again, could also be the parasite water from the Asteri diluting the powers. Who's to say?

[Anna]

Well, we know they bred the Fae out of the wolves.

[Christina]

True.

[Anna]

So.

[Kim]

So that's not a big jump to say that powers could be diluted out as well.

[Christina]

And I think Ruhn specifically, it's noted, gets his powers from his mother, from the Avalon Fae. Which makes sense.

[Anna]

Makes sense, because those are the ones we tie most closely to Prythian.

[Kim]

Yes. So, speaking of Tog, let's touch on Tog here for a second. We know that Maeve's mental manipulation and how she could change memories and feels. It seems an awful lot like Rhys and how he made people forget about Velaris. He says, I made a web between all of them actively controlling their minds every second of every day, every decade, to forget about Velaris. And if you remember, Maeve made Rowan think that Lyria was his mate, and she wanted to break Rowan and AEN so wholeheartedly, or really just Rowan, that when he saw Aelin, he wouldn't even rest, recognize her as his mate.

[Christina]

She also changed everyone's mind and the history of everyone. That there was another sister. Yes, yes. She actively changed history.

[Anna]

She doesn't exist in this world. She is not a sister.

[Christina]

She actively controlled their minds every second of every day of every decade. To think that she was a sister.

[Kim]

Yes, yes, yes. Great point, Christina. Yes. So we are not saying that Rhys is a Val at all. We're just saying this is an interesting comparison of Demotti magic between Throne of Glass and.

[Anna]

Absolutely, absolutely. And speaking of Throne of Glass, two more little tie ins. I loved this quote that I talked about earlier when Rhysand is walking Feyre around Velaris, and he says, when Amarantha came, I had to make some very hard choices very quickly. And he's talking about shielding the city, and he says this a couple times about, like, having to make hard decisions. And it always reminds me of what Rowan tells Aelin in Queen of Shadows. After Aeden finds out that Rowan took the blood oath and he gets really angry, it breaks Aelin. She's like, I'm worried that I'm doing everything wrong and that I'm going to lead my people to ruin and that if I make one small mistake, that's it. Like, everything goes up in flames, basically. And what Rowan says to her is, you will make mistakes. You will make decisions, and sometimes you will regret those choices. Sometimes there won't be a right choice, just the best of several bad options. And I feel like this is exactly what Rhysand was saying. Like, I didn't have any good choices, but I had a choice to make, and so I made the best of a bad choice.

[Christina]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Anna]

It always makes me think of that. Okay, so another tog tie in that. I love. Y' all know I love Lorcan, Lord. Yeah, Lord Lorcan Locken.

[Kim]

Yes, Lord Lorcan Lockin.

[Anna]

Okay, so in Empire of storms in chapter 43, what he says is he had seen a kingdom perhaps 300 years ago, that relied on barges to to sail its goods from one end to another. Its name eluded him. Interesting. Lost to the catacombs of his memory, Lorcan wondered if it still existed, tucked between two mountain ranges on the other side of the world. Now, listen to this description of Valeris. These two descriptions. The first one is the city had been built like a crust atop the rolling steep hills that flanked the river. The buildings crafted from white marble of warm sandstone. Now, listen to this. Ships with sails of varying shapes loitered in the river. The white wings of birds shining brightly above them in the midday sun. So that is how we talk about that in Volares. What Rhysand says is that's how, you know, the. The boats go up and down, and that's how the goods are delivered.

[Kim]

Right.

[Anna]

Listen to this. Lorkin talks about the city being tucked between two mountain ranges.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

This is Feyre looking up while she's walking around Velaris. What she sees is there. Like Eternal guardian of the city, towered a wall of flat topped mountains, the same stone that had been used to build some of the structures. They curved around the northern edges of Alaris to where the river bent toward them and flowed into the shadow. Now, listen to the north, different mountains surrounded the city. Across the river, a range of sharp peaks like fish's teeth cleaved the city's merry hills from the sea beyond two mountain ranges. This city is between. Yeah, with the river flowing through it with barges going up and down and. It sounds so similar to what Lorkin is talking about. And the fact that Lorkhan can't remember the name eludes him. Lost to the catacombs of his memory. And if you remember what Rhys says later on in Acomath, what he says is to preserve it. Like, preserve Valeris, the original High Lord who created Velaris. He says to preserve it, he kept it a secret, and so did his offspring and their offspring. There are many spells on the city itself laid by him and his heirs that make those who trade here unable to spill their secrets and grant them adept skills at lying in order to keep the origins of their goods, their ships, hidden from the rest of the world.

[Christina]

I love it.

[Anna]

It's like what I picture is, like, these people who trade outside of Velaris know how to get there. And then once they leave, though, it's like, foggy, and it kind of just reminds me of what Lorkhan is talking about. That this, you know, lost to the catacombs of a memory, it's like. Like something in your grasp and it eludes you. You can't quite remember.

[Kim]

Yeah, exactly.

[Christina]

The idea of Lorcan being there is so fun. I love this. This is gonna be canon. Let's make it fof canon.

[Anna]

I think it's canon.

[Kim]

Fof canon.

[Anna]

Also, Akamath and Empire Storms were actually published in the same year, so it makes sense that she would be thinking about Velaris while she was writing Empire of Storms and vice versa, because they came out the same year.

[Kim]

Guys, that's wild.

[Anna]

One. One came out in April, one came out in September of 2016.

[Kim]

Oh, how far we've come from that time.

[Christina]

Still waiting on ACOTAR 6.

[Kim]

Still waiting on ACOTAR 6. Okay, guys, I think that wraps up our episode for this week. We'll see you next week.

[Christina]

Bye. Bye.

[Kim]

Well, friends, that wraps up another episode of Flights of Fantasy Podcast. Don't forget to join our book club community on Instagram and TikTok at flights of Fantasy Podcast, where you can share your thoughts, theories, and favorite moments with us and fellow listeners. Listeners, we'd love to hear from you. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your support helps us spread the magic of Romantasy to even more book lovers. Until next time, keep dreaming, keep reading, and remember, every good story deserves to take flight.