S5 : Ep 35 - ACOWAR: Revisited - Part 1

Summary

Flights of Fantasy – S5 : Ep 35

ACOWAR: Revisited – Part 1 (A Court of Wings and Ruin by Sarah J. Maas)

Podcast Date: November 4, 2025
Hosts: Anna, Kim, Kristina

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Episode Overview

The Flights of Fantasy book club reunites to embark on an in-depth, spoiler-filled revisit of A Court of Wings and Ruin (ACOWAR), book three of Sarah J. Maas’ ACOTAR series. The hosts—Kim, Kristina, and Anna—bring their signature humor, heart, and critical analysis as they break down the novel’s powerful prologue, Feyre’s dramatic Spring Court infiltration, intricate political games, and the tangled web of revenge, consequences, and redemption. This is the first in a multi-part discussion, focusing especially on Feyre's Reputation Era in the Spring Court, power dynamics, and the series' notorious supporting cast.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. ACOWAR’s Prologue: A New Perspective

• [04:07–05:25]
  • First ACOTAR book with a prologue, and it’s from Rhysand’s POV—a rarity.
  • The prologue flashes back to the aftermath of war, focusing on Rhysand’s trauma, grief, and the loss of Illyrian warriors.
  • Quote (Rhysand):
    “I now wondered if the lullaby of death was not a lovely song, but the droning of flies, if flies and maggots were all death's handmaidens.”
    (Kim, 05:00)
  • This sets a somber tone, foreshadowing the brutality of war that pervades ACOWAR.

2. Recapping the First Prythian War and Its Players

• [05:25–07:55]
  • The hosts recount the historical war and its impact: Hybern’s bitterness, land division, and the roots of the main conflict.
  • Drakon, Miriam, and Jurian are key figures—a human, a Fae prince, and a betrayer-turned-double-agent. The dynamics in their love triangle and betrayals help define the book’s emotional stakes.
  • Kristina shares a newfound fascination with Jurian on this reread, finding new layers to his character.

3. What Motivates Hybern?

• [08:55–09:38]
  • Hybern’s war isn’t about destruction, but supposed "liberation"—yet, as Anna points out, Hybern isn’t really oppressed, just greedy.
  • Quote (Amren):
    “They are hellbent on what they believe is liberation of High Fae stifled by the wall and what they believe still belongs to them.”
    (Kim, 08:55)
  • Hosts note how fighting for liberation (however deluded) is a strong motivator—even if, in this case, it’s a justification for greed and violence.

4. Feyre’s Reputation Era: The Infiltration of the Spring Court

• [09:51–16:25]
  • Opening chapters: Feyre returns to Spring Court, bent on vengeance and subterfuge after Tamlin and Ianthe’s betrayal.
    • Comparison to Taylor Swift’s ‘Reputation’ Era: “Instead of Rep TV, we are getting Rep FV. This is Feyre's version. Reputation. Feyre's version.” (Kristina, 09:51)
    • Feyre uses her trauma, painting, and “damsel” persona to lull Tamlin while plotting his downfall.
  • The hosts contrast Feyre’s calculated manipulation with her sometimes impulsive or short-sighted planning.
  • Quote (Feyre’s inner monologue):
    “I suppose that in the past weeks, I had crafted my demeanor as intricately as one of these paintings…”
    (Kristina, 13:16)

5. Consequences of Revenge: Effective but Costly

• [14:46–17:38]
  • Feyre subverts Tamlin’s need for control, weaponizing his protector complex against him.
  • The panel highlights the fallout of Feyre’s actions: destabilizing the Spring Court inadvertently paves the way for Hybern's troops, affecting other courts and innocent citizens.
  • Quote (Tarquin):
    “You left the door open for Hybern. They docked in his harbors. It was an easy trip to my doorstep. You did this.”
    (Kristina, 16:54)
  • Discussion of missed opportunities for communication; frustration with Tamlin and Lucian not confiding in Feyre about playing double agent.

6. Lucian’s Evolution and Power Dynamics

• [18:57–20:32]
  • Lucian is aware that Feyre isn’t the same girl—and not fooled by her act.
    • Hosts point out a potential plot hole about his magical eye and Feyre’s glamoured tattoo.
  • Lucian increasingly stands up to Tamlin, sympathizing with Feyre and subtly supporting her, especially when she humiliates Ianthe.

7. The "Delicious" Manipulation: Feyre, Lucian, and Tamlin

• [21:07–23:46]
  • Feyre deliberately uses Lucian to stoke Tamlin’s jealousy—a complex psychological move, but not without consequences for Lucian.
  • Quote (Feyre):
    “A fanged nightmare, the evidence set into place with my thrashed sheet seats… A nightmare. I told Tamlin I was the nightmare.”
    (Kim, 23:10)
  • Hosts revel in how this scene unveils Feyre’s strategic depths.

8. Ianthe: A “Garbage Trash Whore” and Shameless Gaslighter

• [23:55–26:48]
  • The hosts vent their (humorous but fierce) hatred of Ianthe and dissect her manipulative, sanctimonious facade.
  • Commentary on her gaslighting justifications for turning in Feyre’s sisters and exploiting Tamlin.
  • Kristina, riffing on Ianthe’s apology speeches, 26:15–26:48

9. Feyre Outsmarts Ianthe at Summer Solstice

• [28:15–30:36]
  • One of the most satisfying scenes: Feyre shifts the ceremonial sun marker, causing Ianthe to be bypassed by the sunrise, stealing her glory.
  • Feyre draws on her Day Court power to outshine Ianthe; Lucian quickly plays along, kneeling in reverence.
  • Quote (Feyre):
    “I let my glow spread until it too rippled from Lucien's bowed form—a knight before his queen. When I looked to Ianthe and smiled again, I let a little bit of the wolf show.”
    (Kim, 29:13)
  • Joyous reactions from the hosts at this comeuppance.
    • “This scene has to be done on film or TV somewhere because I must see it.” (Kristina, 30:16)

10. Spring Court’s Collapse: The Whipping Scene

• [31:52–34:34]
  • After Ianthe orchestrates a faux attack, Tamlin is forced—through politics and manipulation—to publicly whip a loyal sentry.
  • Hosts express empathy for Feyre’s growing discomfort with the moral cost of revenge.
  • Quote (Feyre):
    “In this, my revenge edged towards something oily, something foreign and queasy… I’d taken a little piece out of mine as well.”
    (Kristina, 33:33)

11. The Hybern Visitors: Jurian, Branna, and Dagdan

• [34:44–39:03]
  • Hybern sends his brutal twins and Jurian to help find the best breach in the wall and further destabilize the courts.
  • Detailed discussion on FAEBANE (the magic-inhibiting poison) and its role in Hybern’s plans, as well as the unsettling incestuous vibe of the twins.
  • The panel debates magical mechanics around shielding minds.

12. Jurian: The ‘Double Agent’ Reconsidered

• [37:49–40:09]
  • Kristina spotlights Jurian’s character: once a villain, now read as a nuanced, even sympathetic double agent.
  • Jurian’s insightful comments about Rhys and Feyre hint at his true allegiance:
    • Quote (Jurian):
      “Perhaps that's because Rhysand has not lost you at all, but rather unleashed you upon us.”
      (Kristina, 40:06)

13. The Case Against a Tamlin Redemption Arc

• [40:22–42:58]
  • The hosts dissect fandom sympathy for Tamlin, pushing back on the idea that Tamlin is simply a tool of Ianthe.
  • Responsibility and agency: Leadership involves culpability, not just power.
    • “You don’t get to inflate your own power and dominance and then suddenly play this helpless bystander…” (Kim, 41:22)
  • Tamlin’s failures are political as well as personal—the betrayal is larger than romantic drama.

14. Tamlin’s Abuse: The Study Incident

• [43:00–45:16]
  • After Feyre incites Tamlin (standing up to Hybern’s cruelty), Tamlin’s explosive rage physically injures Feyre.
  • The hosts stress: while the outburst was provoked, it still reflects a repeating abusive pattern and doesn’t excuse him.
  • Lucian, devastated, witnesses the fallout. Feyre wanted others to see Tamlin’s lack of control—a key step in her plan.
    • “He didn't know that she was going to be able to shield herself. For all he knew, that was going to happen to her.” (Kim, 44:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Feyre’s Mask in the Spring Court:
  “Every move she makes is calculated…so satisfying. It's so delicious.”
  (Kristina, 11:40–12:20)

• Lucian’s Evolution:
  “We all feel bad for our one-eyed cult member. You know what I mean? We really do.”
  (Kim, 21:24)

• On Ianthe:
  “She is—she's a garbage trash whore.”
  (Christina, 24:03)

• On the Twins from Hybern:
  “It's giving incest, is it not?”
  (Kim, 36:26)

• On Jurian and the Children of the Blessed:
  “I fought a whole goddamn war for this to not happen to protect you…What are you doing?”
  (Christina, 38:40)

• On Tamlin’s Responsibility:
  “You can’t say that Feyre is responsible for her actions and her behavior and her choices, but Tamlin is not.”
  (Kim, 42:47)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:07] — Rhysand’s prologue and series tone-setting
• [09:51] — Feyre’s “Reputation Era” begins in the Spring Court
• [14:46] — Consequences and morals of Feyre’s revenge
• [21:07] — Feyre manipulates Tamlin using Lucian: the jealousy gambit
• [28:15] — Feyre steals the Summer Solstice ceremony from Ianthe
• [31:52] — The whipping scene: moral costs in focus
• [34:44] — Arrival and analysis of Hybern’s delegation
• [37:49] — Jurian’s shifting allegiance discussed
• [40:22] — The case against exonerating Tamlin
• [43:00] — Tamlin’s abusive anger resurfaces: The study incident
• [45:24] — Preview: Next episode, the Great Escape, Nesta & Elain’s transformation

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Tone and Style

• The conversation is vibrant, clever, and full of irreverent humor—balancing deep emotional analysis and playful banter.
• Honest, sometimes snarky (“Ianthe is a garbage trash whore”), but always invested in unpacking fantasy romance’s complexities.
• Pop culture references (Taylor Swift’s Reputation, Game of Thrones) are sprinkled throughout for flavor.
• Hosts move seamlessly from fangirl moments to critical scrutiny, making this equally insightful and entertaining.

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Next Time…

• The Great Escape from Spring Court
• Nesta & Elain as Fae
• The Velaris reunion
• The “Mastermind” segment

Don’t miss Part 2 as the hosts tackle even more drama, power struggles, and deep-dives into Maas’s beloved, messy universe.

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Summary by: Your Podcast Summarizer

Transcript

[Kim]

And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Christina]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Kim]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Christina]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings vary unwritten by.

[Kim]

Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates Excludes.

[Christina]

Massachusetts welcome to Flights of Fantasy, your Romantasy podcast book club. I'm Christina, joined by my book besties Kim and Anna, and together we're diving into the characters, theories, lore and magic behind all your favorite fantasy romance books.

[Kim]

Hi book besties. Welcome to Acotar Revisited, our deep dive back into the series that started it all. We are so excited to be here today discussing A Court of Wings and Ruin, the third book in the Acotar series by Sarah J. Maas. Oh, our book besties. We have missed you guys. As you all know, we took a little bit of a break from our Acotar Revisited journey this fall. We took a break to cover some really, really fun new releases such as Fallen in the Kiss of Dusk, the Wolf King and the Night Prince, the Night and the Moth by Rachel Gillig and Mate by Ali Hazelwood, just to name a few. We had so, so much fun covering those books, but we are so excited to be back on our Acatari visited journey for finally discussing acowar. So if you are new here or if you forgot, just a little reminder, we will be breaking up each book into multiple episodes so that we can really take our time with this incredible story. With that being said, and because we have read this series multiple times, we will be discussing each book with the knowledge of the entire series. But before we give our official spoiler warning, Christina has some announcements.

[Christina]

Yes, I sure do. First, we want to thank everyone who has taken the time to rate and review the show. That is so, so, so helpful for us and we' appreciative to everyone who has taken the time to do that. Also, Patreon, oh my gosh, we have so many fun things going on over there right now. It's so exciting. So this month we will be recording a book chat on Slaying the Vampire Conqueror by our queen, Carissa Broadbent. We're so excited to dive into that book, especially after reading Fallen earlier this fall. We will also be bringing you a special exclusive video covering the Kingfisher POVs released by Kelly Hart in preparation for the big Brimstone release. And speaking of Brimstone Guess what? Your girlies will be here with Brimstone chapter chats. Oh my goodness. We're so excited to bring you those. We know you guys love the chapter chats and we have been waiting for Brimstone, so that's gonna be so much fun over on Patreon. And last but not least, we will be bringing you an SJM episode recapping and deep diving our favorite moments from Bryce and Hunt. So we have all of that. We have all the of all of our episodes a day early ad free. So many fun perks over on Patreon and we love getting to spend time with you guys there. We would love to welcome you into our Patreon family. So please, please come on over to patreon.com Flights of Fantasy podcast to learn more and join our family there. All right, Kim, let's shout out some very special patrons.

[Kim]

So one of the many benefits of being one of our tier two book bitches is that you get a special shout out in one of our episodes. So. So today we are going to be shouting out Gracie M. Ashley Edwards and Alana. Thank you all so much for supporting us. We say it every episode. We mean it every episode. We genuinely could not continue to do this podcast without the support of our patrons. You guys genuinely make it possible for us to keep doing what we love. This is our dream job and we are so, so appreciative of all of you.

[Christina]

Yes. We love you. Absolutely. To the stars and back to the stars that listen.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

Book fetches.

[Kim]

Okay, so spoiler warning for the entire Acotar series. Every single book in the Acotar series. Let's dive into Acowar. I'm so excited.

[Christina]

Same.

[Kim]

Okay, so this is the first book in the series that actually has a prologue and it is from our high Lord, Rhysands pov, which we very rarely get.

[Christina]

What a treat.

[Kim]

It is a treat in that we get Rhysands pov. The prologue itself is a little bit depressing, I'm going to be honest with you.

[Christina]

Uh huh. Uh huh. Yeah. A treat that it's Rhys. Not so much a treat in the content. Correct. A treat that it is Rhys. And a prequel.

[Kim]

Yes, exactly. So it is a flashback. Rhysand is walking through the ruins of a battlefield. The only noises are his own thoughts and the flies buzzing around the dead. It's very grim and we are getting a peek into the past to the first and last war the inner circle fought in together. This is the war that has been referenced throughout the entire series. Rhysand is surrounded by fallen illyrian soldiers terrified he might find Cassian or Azriel among them. And I love this quote because I think it really foreshadows what's to come at the end of Acawar. And this is what Rhys says. I now won wondered if the lullaby of death was not a lovely song, but the droning of flies, if flies and maggots were all death's handmaidens.

[Christina]

Oh, oh.

[Kim]

I mean, God, talk about setting the tone for the book, Rhys.

[Christina]

Like talk about setting the tone that war is ugly for ack of war. I think this really sets the scene of where we're going here and it sets us in the stakes of. This is what happened last time with Hybrn. This is what we're fighting against, Correct?

[Kim]

Absolutely. So here's some just important things to remember about this war going forward as we cover this book. So the war capital war, the big one. So the outcome of this war is essentially what has had the King of hybern stewing for 500 years. He is still bitter that the fae had to relinquish land to the humans, who he obviously views as lesser than. That's putting it badly. He hates them. And Amarantha's sick, weird obsession with Jurian began during this war after Durian fought and cut off her sister. Is it pronounced Clythia?

[Christina]

Yeah, sure is. Okay. Sure is. Yep.

[Kim]

I don't love the pronunciation of that name. I'm be honest with you. I know she's dead like him. What?

[Christina]

What do you think?

[Kim]

I don't know.

[Christina]

I just.

[Kim]

It reminds me of. Of a certain female anatomy.

[Christina]

Female anatomy part. That part. Is it really. It's. Yeah. It's not really usually talked about in situations like this.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Uh huh. Yeah.

[Kim]

But here we are.

[Christina]

That's how you pronounce it.

[Kim]

Exactly. So, okay. He cut off Amarantha's sister's head. And ever since then, Amarantha has begun to be obsessed with Jurian and also his body parts. So it's just a weird.

[Christina]

A lot of accessory. We're bedazzling Jurian. He's a. Yeah, it's not great. No. But God, Jurian's so fascinating.

[Kim]

I know.

[Christina]

I am a Jurian girly. This time around I never really cared about him. And this time in this reread, I find him fascinating.

[Kim]

Really.

[Christina]

I am so into the idea of what Jurian is doing. And like also Drakon and Miriam. I don't know. This reread. I have just been paying attention to Jurian and I find him really fascinating.

[Kim]

Oh, I love that. Okay, so speaking of Drakon and Miriam, they were key figures in this first war. She was a human resistance leader and he was a Fae prince who supported the human cause. They fell in love and became a powerful symbol of unity between humans and Fae. Now, Miriam was once with Jurian, but left him after realizing how obsessed and unstable he'd become. Like, he literally started to go cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and she was like, this is too much.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And she fell in love with Draken.

[Christina]

Yes. And then it's also very interesting in Acowar, we get Jurian's side of this where he says that actually Miriam told him to go Clytheia for info. I can't say Clythea. Okay, that's not okay. I take it back.

[Kim]

Say, maybe have sex with Amarantha's sister.

[Christina]

Huh? That's what we're going with. Okay, so we get here a very interesting other side of the story. Multiple sides to every story, that Jurian says that Miriam told him to go get information from Clythia. And you know all that. Oh, I do think there's more to every story and. Okay, we'll discuss it deeper in Cauldron chats.

[Kim]

Yes. Okay. So the other story is that Miriam left Durian, went to go be with Draken, but Miriam and Draken's love and Jurian's betrayal, it really helped define the emotional stakes of this war that we are currently getting a flashback of. And we learn later in this book that Jurian is actually a double agent. He's not actually evil. But we will get to more of that in later episodes. But Christina has a very fun plug for us.

[Christina]

Yes. So speaking of, as I've kind of sprinkled in, there is a Cauldron chat currently up for Tier 2, which is a deep dive on Jurian, Miriam and Draken. It's really fun. So the rabbit holes were gone down. So if you are wanting more deep dives on those three characters, be sure to check that out over on Patreon.

[Kim]

Yes, absolutely. I'm so excited for that new series. It's going to be so, so fun. And it's going to be such a fun way for us to dive in to aspects of this series that we just couldn't fit in our episodes because they would be, you know, hours and hours and hours long. And so this is a really fun way to get to, like, really specific deep dives. And I'm really excited for that episode.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Kim]

It's going to be great.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Kim]

So this is A quote from Amren later in the book about Hybern and why they are now seeking to start another war. Amren says, the point is that we are not facing an army hell bent on destruction. They are hellbent on what they believe is liberation of High Face stifled by the wall. And what they believe still belongs to them. So an interesting point about that is Anna put this in the outline. And of course she did, because it's history lessons with Anna. But if you look back through history, the more successful sides in wars, generally those who are fighting for liberation as opposed to destruction, because freedom is an incredible motivator. The key difference here is that Hybern isn't really oppressed.

[Christina]

Nope.

[Kim]

They're just greedy.

[Christina]

Precisely.

[Kim]

They're fine. They have enough land.

[Christina]

Yep.

[Kim]

But they just want more.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Kim]

Because God forbid humans have anything. Okay, but as we'll see at the end of the book, they put up almost an unbeatable fight. But let's travel to the Spring Court. Oh, with our Reputation Era Feyre.

[Christina]

I am a obsessed with this idea that this is her Reputation Era. It is that instead of Rep tv, we are getting Rep fv. This is Feyre's version. Reputation. Feyre's version.

[Kim]

Listen, I will take any version of reputation we can get because as of the time of recording this, we have still not gotten Rep tv. So Rep fv. I'm here for it.

[Christina]

We're here for it. Guys, it's here. This one is here. It has arrived. All right, so after that prologue, we open the first chapter with Feyre back in the Spring Court. Guys, this is our last time here. We can do it. We can make it through. Woo. Okay. After being betrayed by Tamlin and Ianthe, after watching her sisters be forced into immortality by that cauldron, our girl Feyre is pissed. And you know, to quote our Queen Taylor yet again, she's a quote, nightmare dressed like a daydream. And is she ever in this section? This whole section, like we said, is so Reputation. Every move she makes is calculated specifically to bring the Spring Court to its knees. And we get to see her doing what the Night Court does best, which is wearing a mask. But not the one she wore when Lucien found her by the riverside and Acomath. And not the cruel and evil mask that Rhysand wears. Instead, she is playing up the facade of what Tamlin wants to see. The quiet, doe eyed damsel. And she's not necessarily portraying herself as weak, but instead as a person who possibly was subjected to awful things at hands of the Night Court. She's recovering, but she is still innocent and submissive. And Feyre also conveniently pretends to have memory lapses and nightmares and really convenient pieces of trauma that are carefully used as an excuse to avoid being physical with Tamlin, which is important. That is a piece that I don't think readers could have recovered from, and I don't think she would ever be able to recover from herself.

[Kim]

Agreed.

[Christina]

Having to do that. But, yes, it's so much fun to see every little move so calculated and honestly. So watching her quietly pull these strings and seeing her weaponize her own mask against these people who betrayed her is so satisfying. It's so delicious. But to be honest, it's not without its consequences. Our girl maybe could have used a little more chess class. She could have gone to summer camp chess class one more summer before. But, you know, we'll get there. So there's a lot to unpack in this part of the book, which is actually kind of wild when you realize that out of like 750 pages, we're here for, like, a hundred pages. I'm really happy that it wasn't more.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

The first time I read this, I thought we were going to be here for, like, a long time. I'm happy we weren't.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

But, you know, Sarah does pack these chapters with so much tension and these power plays that it's just such a treat on a reread specifically. So. Okay, let's take a closer look at how Feyre steps into the spiral, how she starts laying the groundwork for her revenge, her reputation, era. So we open chapter one, ladies and gentlemen, with this line quote, the painting was a lie.

[Kim]

Oh, God, I love it. I freaking love it immediately. I love it.

[Christina]

I know. It's such a brilliant way to set the tone here. So we're using Feyre's love of painting as part of the performance she's crafting for Tamlin. She knows he wanted to see her start painting again, but in his mind, that would mean that she was okay, that she was getting better. Little does he know the painting is a lie. So then we get this inner monologue moment, which I love this writing here.

[Kim]

Me too.

[Christina]

Quote, I suppose that in the past weeks, I had crafted my demeanor as intricately as one of these paintings. I suppose that if I had also chosen to show myself as I truly wished, I would have been adorned with flesh shredding talons and hands that choked the life out of those, now in my company, I would have left the gilded halls stained red. But not yet not yet. I told myself with every brushstroke, with every move I'd made. These weeks, swift revenge helped no one and nothing but my own roiling rage.

[Kim]

Oh.

[Christina]

Oh, she's pissed, girl.

[Kim]

She's pissed.

[Christina]

She's coming for you. Spring Court, our just high lady moment here. And it's interesting because one of my critiques on Feyre here is she was a little swift and blinded by her revenge, but I do love this head canon and this inner monologue moment. And yes, the later consequences are for a later date, but she is actively playing this game. Every second that she's there, she's manipulating Tamlin. And it's ultimately one of the most complex and like, pivotal power political moves in the series. Like, a lot comes from this.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And when we really break it down, what's so striking here is how Feyre plays into Tamlin's fantasy of control. That is what ultimately destroys him, which I love. She just completely subverts this male protector narrative that Tamlin himself has built.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Christina]

And she turns it into this beautifully calculated fuck you to the very dynamic that was used to trap and control her in the last book.

[Kim]

I love it.

[Christina]

It is just the most beautiful.

[Kim]

Fuck you.

[Christina]

I can't even handle it.

[Kim]

It's so great.

[Christina]

It's so great and is so effective in some ways, but it's also so costly in some ways.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

So, like, we want to talk about, is this the most effective route? Could she have been a little less cocky, a little less, you know, seen a little less short sighted, kind of gotten past her own revenge and played a little more smartly in the chess game like I think Rhys would have? Yeah, she's just, at the end of the day, not as experienced as Jurian, as Rhys, as some of these other double agents.

[Kim]

Now, I definitely think that she ignored the long term consequences and I think it was short sighted on the inner circles part. Not to discuss. Hey, what if something goes wrong and God forbid you do have to go back with Tamlin. I think that Rhysand and Cassian and Azriel, especially not Azriel, but all three of them should have been like, hey, let's have like a worst case scenario chat. What are we going to do if you have to go back with Tamlin? Like, what should you be doing?

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Kim]

And then like talk that out with her and say, like, okay, so you're going to bring it down from the inside. You're going to make his soldiers not trust him. Okay. Okay, but let's talk that through. What does that look like, what is that going to mean for other people? Other courts? Innocent people, People that live and work there. The humans.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Kim]

She is not thinking about innocent people, which is very unlike Feyre. And I get it that she has changed. And we've seen that to be true. And she is faint. She did tell Tamlin, if you take me from my mate, I will destroy you. And he was like, you don't know what you're talking about, you dumb idiot. And she was like, oh, try me. Let's see. So, I mean, agreed. I do agree that the consequences of Feyre's actions are unfortunate and devastating for some people. And she's clearly not thinking about that. And it is very unlike Feyre to not think about innocent people.

[Christina]

It is. And we get specific examples. Like later in the book, at the Battle of Adriada, we find out Hybern tells Rhys when they're having. He's that hologram. He's like, oh, yeah. Her actions not only took down the Spring Court, but also made it easier for me to plant troops in Tamlin's territory. That was great for me, what she did. And then also later, at that same battle, Tarquin says, quote, you left the door open for Hybern. They docked in his harbors. It was an easy trip to my doorstep. You did this. This.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And it's so hard because I don't think that's fair. But also, I think she's so blinded by this need for revenge that she is not thinking about anyone else, Literally. She's like, well, Alice got out. That's the only person I cared about in the Supreme Court. Fuck the rest of them, right? Burn it down.

[Kim]

Right?

[Christina]

It's like no one matters. And it's a little strange. It's hard sometimes to be like, there are also people here. But I think it's also in her head. She's like, the Spring Court is done. Yeah, they're hybrids. But she doesn't know that Tamlin is spying. She doesn't know that he's trying to do double agent. So, like, if she knew that. And we'll get to that in a little bit. Yes. It would have been smarter to figure out something else, because Spring Court as a not collapsed place, would have been a much better ally.

[Kim]

Agreed.

[Christina]

But she wanted to weaken Hybern's ally, so that was effective because she didn't know.

[Kim]

But she didn't know. She didn't know because Tamlin didn't tell her. Because, of course he didn't tell her, because he doesn't tell her anything. And ultimately, I think that Tamlin did bring this on himself, because if he. He would have opened up to Feyre, not saying, I get why he maybe wouldn't trust her fully, but if he would have told her, hey, yes, Hybern is coming, but I want to be clear. I want to tell you that I am a double age, essentially. It's like, you can put it whatever terms you want, but because he didn't confide in Feyre, all she knew was that you worked with Hybern. They're coming here.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Kim]

I can't stand for that. What was she supposed to think? You know?

[Christina]

And it actually feels a little frustrating to me that Tamlin and Lucian didn't just a little bit clue her into that.

[Kim]

Agreed.

[Christina]

Because I feel like it would have been logical in the mindset of, oh, this will help the blow to her that we're letting Hybern in and across the wall and with the humans, like, logically, she also begged us to be involved in these things. So, yeah, even just a wink, wink, nudge, nudge of, look, we're just biding our time, but we all know, like, wink, wink, we got to get through this. But everyone, put your shields up. Let's just do it.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

You know, even something being like Feyre.

[Kim]

This is not all as it seems. There is more to our position right now. There's more that's going on that I. We will be sharing. Like, just anything, give her any kind of clue.

[Christina]

I think that would have helped, Helped drastically. And honestly, I understand from Tamlin, but I really wish it would have come from Lucian at some point.

[Kim]

I agree. Yeah. And speaking of Lucian. So Lucian, in part of one of Acowor, is really walking a razor's edge here. He is caught between his blinded loyalty to Tamlin and the growing realization that Feyre is not the same girl who left and that maybe, just maybe, she has a good reason for being different. He is not at all fooled by her grateful bride act.

[Christina]

I love that. From the get go, he's like, all right, girl. Sure.

[Kim]

He was like, sure. Okay.

[Christina]

I do have a question. And I know this is talked about a lot in the fandom, but we specifically find out that his eyeball lets him see through glamours, so he should be able to see her night court high lady tattoo the whole time. However, he is shocked by it when the glamour comes off.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

So that's a confusing piece of magic history for me in that moment.

[Kim]

Well, it could be that because it's Feyre. And because she has the power of all the High lords. Maybe he can't see through that level of a glamour.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kim]

But it could just be that he can't see through Phaers. But that is definitely a heavenly fire plot hole.

[Christina]

It's interesting. Well, and I wonder if maybe it's. He can see that there is a glamour there. And that's a little bit also why he's like, don't be suspicious, girl. What's that glamour on your hands?

[Kim]

Right, right. You know, that is interesting.

[Christina]

But he can't see what it is.

[Kim]

Maybe.

[Christina]

Or maybe because it's a high. It's put there like he could see regular glamours, but because it's put there by a high lady or a high lord, then that's like above his pay grade. Pay grade, Exactly.

[Kim]

It's like above his abilities. Yeah. That's definitely questionable. We'll have to see if anyone. Any thoughts on that? But most importantly, Lucian does not try to stop Feyre from publicly humiliating Ianthe. And if anything, he seems to enjoy it, as do we. I'm living for this.

[Christina]

These are moments that I was like, Lucian, God, I love you in this book. He really. He delivers in this book.

[Kim]

Oh. She takes one look at him, he's like, I got it. Say less. I'm here with you. Let's do this. It is so fantastic.

[Christina]

I can't wait to break that down. Yeah.

[Kim]

So for the first time, we really see Lucian start to step out of Tamlin's shadow. Especially when he finally calls Tamlin out for the way he's treated Feyre. But his defiance does have limits because his maid is in the Night Court and everything he does is driven by wanting to get Elaine back. So he's playing it safe for now. And Feyre uses that hesitation to her advantage 100% in one of the most memorable scenes in this part of the book.

[Christina]

Oh, my God.

[Kim]

Where she preys upon Tamlin's jealousy. This is. I don't care. I loved this so much. I thought it was delicious. Delicious.

[Christina]

It is so much fun to read the layers of this that she calculates. Yeah, I did feel bad for Lucian, but I feel bad for Lucian a lot in this book. So it's just added to the tallies.

[Kim]

You know, we all feel bad for our one eyed cult member. You know what I mean? We really do.

[Christina]

The hopeless little lamb that he is.

[Kim]

The hopeless one eyed cult member. Okay, so the moment Feyre uses Lucian to manipulate Tamlin is one of those brilliantly layered scenes that we love. To reread. She knows exactly what she's doing, reaching for Tamlin's deepest insecurity and twisting the that knife. Tamlin has always treated Lucien like a lesser male, a second in command, not a rival. And what makes it so effective is how subtle it is. Feyre doesn't have to lie. She just lets Tamlin's own paranoia do the work. And it is exactly the kind of psychological warfare that shows how far Feyre is willing to go. So this is right after the summer solstice celebrations. Feyre had purposely been giving Tamlin come me eyes all night so that he would go to her bedroom. Little like, oh. Glances across the room, like, oh. Oh, who, me? Oh, oh, me. Little old me. Okay, so she. This is what Feyre says. God, it's just so. Reputation. Okay, she says. I wonder if Lucian had pieced it together that I had known Tamlin would come to my room tonight after I had given him so many shy touches and glances today that I had changed into my most indecent nightgown, not for the heat, but so that when my invisible snares in the house informed me that Tamlin had finally worked up the nerve to come to my bedroom, I'd look the part. A fanged nightmare, the evidence set into place with my thrashed sheet seats. I'd left Lucian's door open with him too distracted and unsuspecting of why I'd really be there to bother to shut it or notice the shield of hard air I'd placed around the room so that he wouldn't hear or sit Tamlin as he arrived. Until Tamlin saw us there, limbs entwined, my nightgown askew, staring at each other so intently, so full of emotion that we'd either just been starting or finishing up that we didn't even notice until Tamlin was right there and that invisible shield vanished before he could sense it. A nightmare. I told Tamlin I was the nightmare.

[Christina]

I was the nightmare. God, it's good.

[Kim]

Oh, my God, it's so good, you guys. This scene is so. It is like Feyre at her most.

[Christina]

Yes, her most Slytherin.

[Kim]

Oh, God, she is.

[Christina]

She is calculating. And she has thought of everything here.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And yes, again, this does have consequences later. Her trying to, like, sexualize Lucian like this, I think also gets Ianthe jealous. She wasn't planning on Anthony getting jealous. And then that ends up really poorly for Lucian. We'll talk about that next. Next week. But, yeah, in this moment, it is, for the reader, so much fun to read. It is See her. Because the way it's layered, you're figuring it out as it's going.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And it's just delicious. It's delicious.

[Kim]

It's so good. What's not delicious, though, Christina?

[Christina]

You know, it's not delicious. It. I. Anthony.

[Kim]

God damn it. I hate her.

[Christina]

God, I. Anthy. This bitch.

[Kim]

I can't stand her.

[Christina]

Bitch is back. Not in a good way. Not as a book bag. This is a bad.

[Kim]

A bad.

[Christina]

No, no, no, no. Not a bad bitch in a good way either.

[Kim]

Damn it.

[Christina]

Okay, I guess we can establish bitch is a good thing. So she is. We hate her. We hate her. We hate her. She's a garbage trash whore. Okay? She is, as we've said, she is the first woman to hold that title. So. Yes. Okay, so, Ianthe. Let's discuss, guys. The moment Ianthe steps on this page in Echo War, she is just radiating this holier than thou energy that makes me want to scream. Like, truly just makes me want to throw my Kindle. She hides behind this pious facade, and for some reason, the piousness of it really grates hates me. It makes me want to hit her in the face so hard.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Christina]

Okay. But it's this pious facade over this coldly calculated little witch that we know is there. And her excuse for handing over Feyre's sisters to Hybrn is maybe the most infuriating thing that she does in this chapter.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Christina]

So she. She says that she thought Feyre would want them immortal so they could all stay together. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[Kim]

What?

[Christina]

I'm sorry.

[Kim]

Here.

[Christina]

The gaslighting, Truly, that's happening. Yeah. It's Olympic level here.

[Kim]

Yeah, it is.

[Christina]

I can't even. She then is like, what? I thought you'd want this. You were very clear. You told me you missed them. I thought you'd want to be with them in immortality. Like, fuck off. You knew that wasn't. Oh, my God. She's the worst.

[Kim]

She's the worst.

[Christina]

And Feyre's in the situation where she can't be like, fuck off. Right?

[Kim]

Right. She has to be like, kay, My eyes are touching mine.

[Christina]

Yes, exactly. Like, as always, Ayethi's loyalty isn't to anyone but herself. She is constantly maneuvering to stay in control. Also, I'm pretty sure at the end of Acomaf, it was blatantly said by Hybern that her ultimate goal here is to take out the high Lords and for the high priestesses to win. Yes. So the fact that Tamlin's, like, welcoming her back with open arms is like, why, you know, she's out to get you. I mean, I get it because he's playing spy and because Hybern. Fine. But it's just she was clearly the evil last book. We cannot pretend. Are we seriously pretending to that this is not happening?

[Kim]

No.

[Christina]

Because at this point, as the reader, you also don't know he's playing spy. So you're like Tamblyn.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

Wake up.

[Kim]

Wake up.

[Christina]

So, all right. But when Feyre starts playing her own little game in the spring court, watching her knock Ianthe down a few pegs is so deeply satisfying. And there's so many instances where this happens. Mainly summer solstice, which Kim will talk us through. But in her infuriating apology, she says, I made a grave mistake and I will always regret any pain I caused. But let us continue this good work together. Let us find a way to ensure our lands and people survive. Truly, you are the worst. Her being like, I made a grave mistake and I'm sorry. But let us continue the good work together. Like, pretty much telling them so. You get over it. And it's good work together we're doing. Also, you don't give a shit about the lands or the people surviving. You're bringing Hybrid over. You don't care about these people.

[Kim]

Nope. You sure don't.

[Christina]

She's the worst. And do you know what Tamlin's response is? We'll all try. And then in Feyer's inner monologue, it's. That was his new favorite word. Try, Try. Oh, my God. Something about it just really hits on that passiveness that is so frustrating about Tamlin. The way he just never does anything. Like, the passive nature of him is exactly highlighted here. Yeah. Because I do think this is Tamlin's version of trying. I do.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

It's just. It's too little too late and not in the right way. It's not helpful.

[Kim]

No.

[Christina]

He is so passive. He hates conflict. And he's clearly all tangled up up in his own half baked attempts to be a spy.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And I think on some level he does recognize that excluding Feyre from meetings and keeping her isolated was wrong. But here's the key, guys. Even as he's quote, trying, he still doesn't bring her fully into his ultimate endgame plan. That he's acting as a spy against Hybern.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Christina]

So showing us his effort to change and to treat her as an equal and bring her into the fold. It only goes so far. Yep. Because he didn't actually bring her into the fold. Nope. And we're gonna dive deeper into Tamlin in a bit. So we're gonna circle back to Anthy here. She's got Tamlin completely under her thumb, especially now with Hybern's backing and the weight of the bargain. But where Ianthe really slips up is underestimating Feyre. She has no idea that she let this little fox into the hen house.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Christina]

And her cockiness is on full display here. And she's way too busy playing at power to see the traps set right under her nose by sweet little Feyre. Especially at the summer solstice.

[Kim]

Oh, guys, this was incredible. So, during the summer solstice celebration of the Spring Court, Ianthe tries to reclaim her influence by leading the ceremony and insisting everyone is up before dawn to observe the sunrise off. Yeah, which, first of all, that sounds miserable, and I'm not doing that. Loop me out of that. I'm not getting up at dawn to watch the sun rise.

[Christina]

RSVP no. Yep.

[Kim]

Hardest path's gonna be a no for me. You guys have fun standing in the field in the dark. And she is hoping to stand in the sun's path and appear chosen by the Mother. But Feyre has other plans. She just quietly shifts the sun marker. There's like a little rock on the ground that tells.

[Christina]

It's like a mark on the stage. Like you hit your mark. Like an actor. Yes.

[Kim]

And all she did was just scoot it, like, five feet to the right. And so when the sun rises, it completely misses Ianthe and bathes Feyre in light instead. And then Feyre uses her decor power to glow even brighter, making it look like the Mother herself is blessing Feyre.

[Christina]

It's incredible. It's so incredible.

[Kim]

I made a show of looking surprised. Surprised and yet accepting of the cauldron's choice. Tamlin's face was taught with shock. The hybrid royals nothing short of baffled. But I turned to Lucien, my light radiating so brightly that it bounced off his metal eye. A friend beseeching another for help. I reached a hand toward him. Beyond us, I could feel Ianthe scrambling to regain control, to find some way to spin it. Perhaps Lucian could, too, for he took my hand and then knelt upon one knee in the grass, pressing my fingers to his brow like stalks of wheat in a wind. The other others fell to their knees as well. For in all of her preening ceremonies and rituals, never had Ianthe revealed any sign of power or blessing. But Feyre, cursebreaker, who had led Prythian from tyranny and darkness Blessed, holy. Undimming before evil, I let my glow spread until it too rippled from Lucien's bowed form a night before his queen. When I looked to Ianthian, smiled again, I let a little bit of the wolf show. Oh, my God. This is. Is fucking amazing.

[Christina]

This is incredible. This scene has to be done on film or TV somewhere, because I must see it.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Oh, my God. I ate these scrambling, trying to be like, my spotlight is moved. And Lucian looking at her like, oh, yeah, girl, let's do it. Let's do this. Bows. And it's so good.

[Kim]

It's so good and obsessed. This is one of the moments where I was like, okay, Lucian, I see you.

[Christina]

Okay.

[Kim]

I'm like, I'm liking this.

[Christina]

I'm telling you, he's great in this book. Oh, my God, this is so fun.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

Oh.

[Kim]

So everyone is calling her Cauldron Blessed in Cursebreaker. And later, she and Rhys talk down the bond. And it's a really, really sweet moment. She's trying not to speak to him, like, very much at all because she doesn't want their scent or any hint of the bond to be revealed, obviously, to anybody in the Spring Corps. So they've had very little communication. And Rhys, they're going back and forth. She's like, is everyone okay? You know, I wish I could be with you. And Reese says, it'd be an honor. He said laughter in every word. To spend even a moment in the company of Feyre Cauldron Blessed.

[Christina]

God, I love this.

[Kim]

God, I love them.

[Christina]

You are just so starved for cute, Reese. Play with me humor. And this I love. I lose it every time.

[Kim]

Oh, I know.

[Christina]

Be an honor. And she's like. She's like, stop it.

[Kim]

And then he says, when do you come home to me?

[Christina]

Oh, Reesa, my baby.

[Kim]

Oh, I love him so much.

[Christina]

When do you come home to me? Just shut up. God. Shut up.

[Kim]

God, I love them. I love them.

[Christina]

Oh, same. Okay, so next we want to highlight a key turning point in the collapse of the Spring Court here, which is the whipping scene. So, okay, guys. So essentially, one of Tamlin's sentries is blamed for a missing key and leaving the gates unlocked to allow the Naga to break in. It's actually all Anthony.

[Kim]

Yep, it's actually all. It's 100%.

[Christina]

Trying to regain some credibility after Summer solstice shenanigans. She's like, oh, no, no. The Nagas come in.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

Only I can fix that. I told you. Yeah, I warned you this would happen. Like, okay, so pretty much ianthe calls for 21 lashes. But Feyre, using her powers, being our calculated semi good chess player, makes the sentry reveal the truth. And the truth is that Ianthe staged the attack to regain credibility, as we said.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Christina]

But when Ianthe smugly asks if a sentry's word holds more weight than a high priestesses in front of everyone of the all his sentries, Tamlin's pretty trapped here. Because if he punishes the sentry, he'll lose the respect of his men. If he lets the sentry go, he'll alienate Ianthe. He'll risk losing his standing with Hybern and his double agent game here. Again, I do think that his half baked plans here were not worth him doing this to the century.

[Kim]

I agree.

[Christina]

At the end of the day, this is a choice he made to go with this and to have the sentry be with.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Christina]

It was his choice to make and he does choose it. Yep. And quote, the thunderous crack as it cleaved the air, snapped through the barracks, the estate, through the very foundations of the court. And what really tips this over the edge is that everyone sees Tamlin realize that the sentry is telling the truth.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Christina]

And then he punishes him anyway.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

His men who went across the wall to sacrifice themselves, who were in camps under the mountain.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Christina]

These men watch him side with Ianthe over them, over his own soldiers. Like, why would they want to stay and fight for someone willing to pick hybrid over them?

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Christina]

Another key aspect of this scene is seeing Feyre begin to feel the weight of this revenge. So she says, quote, in this, my revenge edged towards something oily, something foreign and queasy. He would heal from the pain, but the blow to his honor, I'd take a little piece out of mine as well. God, the imagery of the oily there is really.

[Kim]

It's really fantastic.

[Christina]

It's so effective and it's so important that Sara includes these moments of reflection from Feyre throughout this whole stint in the Spring Court. I think, because yes, war is messy, we've set that tone. And yes, Tamlin has aligned himself with the enemy, or so she thinks. But here it's an innocent who takes the brunt of the punishment for someone else's misdeeds. And Feyre's victories, as we've said, do come at a cost. And she does beg Tamlin to stop in this scene. And I would argue, I don't think that's her manipulating. I think she would have done that no matter what.

[Kim]

I think so too.

[Christina]

But she also knows that this scene will serve her greater plan.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

So even if she's not fully facing it yet, part of her feels the weight of what she's doing. And so we're seeing that kind of start to build up.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Although she is still completely blinded by revenge. And we are still here for it. All these aspects are important to remember.

[Kim]

Absolutely. Absolutely. So let's talk about our visitors from Hybern.

[Christina]

Oh, God.

[Kim]

This very wonderful band of individuals that come to the Spring Court. So Highburn sends Branna, Dagden and Jurian to the Spring Court. It is under the guise of inspecting the wall for weaknesses, looking for the spot where the cauldron can break through. The twins, Branna and Dagdan are Demotti. And they are constantly trying to dig into people's minds. So Feyre has to keep up mental shields, not just for herself, but for Tamlin and Lucian, so the twins don't catch on to who she really is.

[Christina]

So I have one little quick question.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Can only Demotti mentally shield? I thought all High Lords can mentally shield shield. Why would Tamlin not shield his mind when he knows Demodis are in his house? Why are we that passive, Tamlin?

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Or is it only De Madis can shield their own minds?

[Kim]

I think you can. Maybe you can't. No. Because remember, Amren teaches Nesta how to shield later in Acowor.

[Christina]

I think it's just something that anyone who is a High Lord or a High Lord's son would know how to do.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

So it's annoying to me that they don't do it here.

[Kim]

Right. Like you don't know these people. And they're Demotti.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Do they know?

[Christina]

Does.

[Kim]

Does Tamlin know that they're Demotti?

[Christina]

I would assume so. Oh, maybe not. Because Feyre recognize it in this moment. But still, if you're a High Lord and the Hybern is in your house, like you are shielding constantly.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Especially if you're a spy. You're double agenting.

[Kim]

Yeah. That's so interesting. Maybe, though, maybe I know they can put up like, physical shields, but maybe. Maybe they can't. Maybe only Damati can shield their minds like that. No. Because Feyre could do it.

[Christina]

Yeah. We'll report back on this. Oh, well, but she was Feyre's day, Marty.

[Kim]

Right.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Anyways, so we'll touch base on that later. But that's an interesting question. That's an interesting question.

[Christina]

Yeah. It's just an interesting question I had. All right. Right back to the murder. Scary twins.

[Kim]

Yes. Okay. So the incest twins.

[Christina]

The Lannisters from Game of Thrones.

[Kim]

Guys, it's a giving incest, is it not?

[Christina]

Oh, 100.

[Kim]

They're weirdly together.

[Christina]

They are. They are. They truly are. They're like, one bed, please. Like.

[Kim]

Yeah, no, we'll just need one. I'm sorry.

[Christina]

Excuse. Like, okay, that's fine. Like, siblings can share a room, but, like. No, it's. They're together. They are together, but a room is fine.

[Kim]

You could have two beds in the room. But you. You specifically want one bed.

[Christina]

And he, like, joats over her like, God, sims are wine. Like, it's weird.

[Kim]

It's so weird.

[Christina]

Oh, God. It's very. It's really giving Lana stir. And it's a lot.

[Kim]

Yes. So we learn later that they have actually been spiking all of the food with FA Bane, which is different from blood Bane.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Kim]

So FA Bane, in small doses, causes headaches and lessens your ability to effectively draw upon your magic. It can be undetectable in the small doses until your magic is completely useless. In large doses, FA Bane can rip through magical shields and stop a Fae from being able to channel their magic immediately. Or stop, stop, slash, slow the healing. But it's really important that we see these effects of the faebane on Feyre and Lucian, because it's one of the biggest weapons in Hybern's arsenal. And this is what Thiesen's people have been working toward creating an antidote for which he presents at the High Lord's meeting later in the book. And everyone agrees to take the antidote, except Baron, of course. Which.

[Christina]

Of course it does. Which. Fine.

[Kim]

Godspeed to you. Fine.

[Christina]

Oh, the worst.

[Kim]

Oh, but let's talk about Jurian, because Christina had has so much to say about Juriana.

[Christina]

My new favorite.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

Maybe not my new favorite. That was a big statement. But I'm just finding him really fun. Him and Lucian. Am I a band of exiles, girly? Is this what's happening? You are not over the inner circle by any means, but I've just never really cared about them this much before.

[Kim]

I love it.

[Christina]

Okay, so as we mentioned earlier, I do have a full cauldron chat. That is up now, deep diving Jurian and the history there of him and Miriam and Draken. So for now and right here, we're gonna focus on him in this section of the story, y'. All. Sarah does such a good job of laying these Easter eggs that Jurian may not be this evil villain that we think he is. What? Yeah, he doesn't make it a secret that he doesn't like or trust the creepy twins. Very important, number one. And then we have the moment with the Children of the Blessed, which to me is so wild to reread. Putting myself in Jurian's shoes here.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Jurian is. Is a 500 year old human because he was bedazzled into some jewelry and stuck on Amarantha. His soul was. And then he was plopped into the cauldron in a stew. And now he's alive. So he is a human who fought in the war, okay, to save humans. And these Children of the Blessed just pop through like, please take us. Please, please help us. And he is just like, truly, what are you doing? I fought a whole goddamn war for this to not happen to protect you. And I'm currently double agenting my ass off to protect you from this. And you are traipsing in here like, oh. Oh, my God. What are you doing? What are you doing?

[Kim]

It's so funny.

[Christina]

I love to read this scene with that in mind now. But, yes, also later in the book, we do know he tells Feyre that when she chose to help the Children of the Blessed is when he fully decided he can trust her. So it's really a telling moment on all sides here.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

But one of our biggest clues that Jurian is actually on our side is this quote he gives us about Rhys during the war. Quote. But the male I knew was the most decent of them all. Better than that prick prince. You don't lose that quality, no matter the centuries. And Rhys was too smart to do anything but have the vilification of his character. Be a calculated move. And yet here you are. His mate, the most powerful Highlord in the world, lost his mate and has not yet come to claim her, even when she is defenseless in the woods. Jurian chuckled. Perhaps that's because Rhysand has not lost you at all, but rather unleashed you upon us.

[Kim]

Ah, Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did.

[Christina]

Oh, my God. So good. Oh, so fun rereading these scenes with Jurian knowing what's to come with him. Oh, my gosh. I love it. So, speaking of what's to come. All right, let's discuss Tamlin for a moment.

[Kim]

I would love to.

[Christina]

We're gonna have a little on your soapbox.

[Kim]

I would love to get on my soapbox about Tamlin. Okay, everybody, so let's just listen up. So there has been a lot of sympathy, a Tamlin sympathy online, with people pointing out that maybe he wasn't the true villain at the end of the Acomath that it was really Ianthe who orchestrated the worst of the betrayal. I mean, we don't get it, but, like, I guess our differences are what makes the world go round. Fine. And yes, Ianthe did technically hand over Feyre's sisters to Hybern. She set that horror in motion. But here's the thing. Tamlin still aligned himself with Hybern. He still promised a foreign invader access to his lands in exchange for breaking the bond between Feyre and Rhys. That is not passive complicity. That's active an betrayal. And while I may have been the one holding the knife, Tamlin handed it to her. He is the High Lord. He made the deal. It's funny, because Ann and I were actually texting about this, and she was like, it's government 101. If Tamlin wants the glory and control that comes with leadership, he has to accept the responsibility, too. You don't get to inflate your own power and dominance and then suddenly play this helpless bystander when someone under your command goes rogue. And more importantly, that is not love. At the end of the day, Tamlin's betrayal isn't just emotional, it's political. And that is what makes it so much harder to write off as a simple mistake.

[Christina]

Oh, I love that. Really, really good. The government 101 thing makes so much sense. And we're not saying that Tamlin doesn't deserve a redemption arc or that he's a villain. I actually don't think he's evil. It's just wildly unfair in this section of the book to say that he holds zero responsibility. Yeah, it actually makes zero sense for him to hold zero fault here.

[Kim]

Right.

[Christina]

Ultimately, Tamlin was manipulated, but at the end of the day, they are still his actions.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

And he has to be responsible for how he handled being manipulated. Absolutely. Ayanthi is majorly at fault, and here. But we can't excuse Tamlin fully and completely. Just because he was manipulated like that just doesn't excuse him.

[Kim]

No.

[Christina]

And yes, she pushed him toward Hybern, but he was the one who made the deal. Yes, Feyre manipulated his existing anger to explode in the study, which we'll get to. But at the end of the day, he was the one who let his anger get the best of him and physically hurt her.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

I don't think he's evil. And when we get to silver flames, sometimes I feel bad for him, sometimes I don't. We'll see how we get how we feel when we get there. But Right here, right now. It is wildly unfair to not hold him accountable for his actions and to say that he holds no fear. Fault. Yeah. At the end of the day, you just.

[Kim]

Actually, you can't say that because there are many, many moments in this book where he makes his own choices. He is a 500 year old, Faye.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kim]

So to say that he is not responsible for his actions or his behavior or his choices does not make any sense.

[Christina]

Right.

[Kim]

You can't say that Feyre is responsible for her actions and her behavior and her choices, but Tamlin is not.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Kim]

It's either everyone's responsible for their own things or no one is responsible for anything, which is just not. Not how life works.

[Christina]

You know, it's just not. It's not.

[Kim]

Okay, so let's chat about what Christina just said about a very significant moment that really encapsulates and showcases that Tamlin still has miles to go in his path to redemption because he is repeating abusive behaviors here. And I'm sorry they are. So, like Christina said, there were a few children of the Blessed who crossed the wall, and the creepy twins tortured and brutalized him. It was so gruesome that even Jurian, a person who has seen war and been in an eyeball ring for centuries, was disgusted. Okay. And even after Feyre ordered the twins to stand down, they went across the wall and hunted them and brought them back and brutalized them. So Feyre, in retaliation, sent the Bog after them, which, if you remember from Akotar, is a thing of nightmares. And it feeds off a person's fears, which, like, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Okay. Also, did they die? No, they did not.

[Christina]

So that's later. Yeah.

[Kim]

Did you die? No. So get over it. Okay. And Feyre does goad Tamlin upon their return. She knows he'll be pissed. And concerned that Hybern's niece and nephew were traumatized by the Bog. Who cares? And Tamlin is furious. He is screaming at Lucian, who is trying to defend Feyre. Thank you, Lucian. Finally, here we go. But Feyre does not back down this time. She says, you might be willing to get on your knees for Hybern, but I certainly am not. And Tamlin explodes. Furniture splintered and went flying. Windows cracked and shattered. And this time, I did not shield myself. The work table slammed into me, throwing me against the bookshelf. And every place where flesh and bone met wood barked and ached. My knees slammed into the floor. And Tamlin was instantly in front of me, handshaking. The doors burst open. What have you Done. Lucian breathed. And Feyre clearly wanted Lucian and all the centuries to see Tamlin's anger. All because she stood up to the enemy while he panders to hide Hyburn. Okay, exactly.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Kim]

So, yes, it was calculated. And yes, she did goad him, but literally all she was doing was standing up to him. Okay, yeah, that's all she did. And he still chose to yet again trash the study. And he didn't know that she was going to be able to shield herself. Like, for all he knew that was going to happen to her.

[Christina]

Oh, of course. Yeah, exactly. He definitely let his anger get the best of him. Yes, she manipulated him into it, but that doesn't change the fact that his actions physically hurt her. Yes. And yes, it did also play into her grand plan.

[Kim]

Sure.

[Christina]

And yes, she wanted everyone to see it, but that doesn't change the fact that it happened.

[Kim]

Exactly. So this is actually where we are going to leave off for this week's episode. And next week we are going to be covering the great escape from the Spring Court.

[Christina]

Oh my God.

[Kim]

Oh my God. We finally are leaving, people. This is it. We're getting out. It's a shit show, but we're getting out. And we're going to talk about Nesta and Elain as Faye and the Velores reunion, along along with our Mastermind segment. Yay. We will see you next time. Bye. Well, friends, that wraps up another episode of Flights of Fantasy podcast. Don't forget to join our book club community on Instagram and TikTok at flights of Fantasy Podcast where you can share your thoughts, theories and favorite moments with us and fellow listeners. We'd love to hear from you. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your support helps us spread the magic of romantic to even more book lovers. Until next time, keep dreaming, keep reading, and remember, every good story deserves to take flight.