S5 : Ep 38 - ACOWAR: Revisited - Part 4

Summary

Flights of Fantasy S5, Ep38: ACOWAR Revisited – Part 4

Release Date: December 2, 2025
Hosts: Christina, Kim, Anna, Emma
Book Discussed: A Court of Wings and Ruin (ACOWAR) by Sarah J. Maas

Episode Overview

In this episode of Flights of Fantasy, your favorite book besties continue their deep-dive reread of A Court of Wings and Ruin (ACOWAR), exploring character arcs, lore, and pivotal moments with a mix of thoughtful criticism and enthusiastic fangirling. The discussion covers Amren’s big reveal, Feyre’s flying lessons with Azriel, the tangled web of Elaine and her visions, early skirmishes in the war, romance moments galore, and the long-awaited High Lords’ meeting. The hosts don’t shy away from examining the emotionally and morally complex threads in Sarah J. Maas’s universe, and they draw rich parallels across the SJM multiverse.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Amren’s Origin and Sacrifice (04:09)

• Christina shares a detailed breakdown of Amren finally opening up about her origins:
  • Amren reveals she originally came from another world as a being of pure, emotionless power.
    • “…before she took a physical body in this world, she was a creature of pure power, without pain and without emotion.” (04:09)
  • She chose to give up her “perfect immortality” to experience pain, regret, and emotion—a recurring SJM theme of “sacrifice for feeling.”
    • “I yielded my grace, my perfect immortality. I would feel pain and regret. I would want and I would burn with it. I would fall.” (05:04)
  • Christina points out how this echoes religious (angelic, fallen) motifs and ties Amren to dreamers like Mor and Nesta.
• Teased that more on Amren’s original form is coming in the next episode’s “Sunday school lesson” with Anna.

2. Feyre’s Flying Lessons with Azriel: Azriel’s Hidden Depths (06:25)

• Emma and Christina celebrate some of the most tender, character-driven scenes in the book:
  • The humanizing “flying lessons” show Azriel’s softer, playful, subtly snarky side with Feyre (rare in the series).
    • Favorite moment: Feyre crashes into a pine tree—Azriel dryly comments, “Judging by its size, I say it’s been there for 200 years at least.” (08:17)
  • These moments offer rare insight: Azriel empathizes with Feyre’s struggle because he was denied the ability to learn to fly as a child.
  • Azriel’s history lesson about the Seraphim, Drakon, Miriam, and the Nefel philosophy:
    • “What we think to be our greatest weakness can sometimes be our biggest strength, and that the most unlikely person can alter the course of history.” (09:45)
• Christina, summing up fandom feelings: “It just makes us feral and hungry for Azriel’s POV in the next books!” (09:07)

3. Elain’s Visions, Foreshadowing, and Mate Dynamics (10:22)

a. Elain’s Prophetic Ramblings (10:40+)

• The hosts break down Elain’s cryptic statements, drawing out layers of SJM foreshadowing:
  • “I saw young hands wither with age. I saw a box of black stone. I saw a feather of fire, land on snow and melt it.” (11:18)
    • Interpreted as references to: the human queen (young hands), Vassa the firebird (feather of fire), and the onyx box as Koschei’s soul vessel.
  • Her warning of “twin ravens… one white, one black” (12:19) foreshadows the later attack on Nesta and Feyre in the library—missed by her sisters, but later, the significance is clear.

b. Mate Watch: Elain, Lucien, and Trauma (13:08+)

• Lucien attempts to connect with Elain via the mating bond, which unsettles her.
  • When Nesta asks, “What do you need?” Elain replies “Sunshine.” (13:27) Alluding playfully to Lucien’s Day Court heritage, setting up future plotlines.
• Discussion of Elain’s trauma and the hosts advocating for Elain’s autonomy:
  • “She was in love. She was engaged to somebody and then thrown into the cauldron… Lucien was there, complicit.” (14:52)
  • “It’s valid. I know in Feyre’s head, the mating bond’s so coveted… but to Elain, it’s not. Yet.” (19:15)

c. Azriel, Elain, and Seer Revelation (20:13+)

• Azriel alone recognizes Elain is now a seer:
  • “She doesn't need anything,” Azriel answered… “We’re the ones who need—a seer, he said, more to himself than usual. The Cauldron made you a seer.” (20:36)
  • Christina points out this is “huge pro in the Azriel-Elain column!”
• Mor’s powers confirm Azriel’s revelation, but the hosts note inconsistency and plot convenience in her “truth-detecting” abilities.
• Elain’s step down toward Lucien as he departs (24:13) is analyzed for romantic and prophetic significance.

4. Azriel & Elain: SJM’s Love Triangle Diplomacy (25:31)

• Christina and Emma stress agency and respect in shipping debates (“We are firmly Team Gwynriel, but… we also acknowledge the real moments between Azriel and Elain,” 26:48).
• Analysis of symbolic moments:
  • Elain’s cobalt blue dress matches Azriel’s siphons in ACOMAF—color symbolism as subtle foreshadowing. (27:48)
  • Detailed reading of their first interaction in ACOWAR—Elain does not shy away from Azriel, notices his scars and siphon color, eliciting a blush from Azriel. (29:07)
  • Theorizing about Azriel’s shadows vanishing around Elain: does it mean he’s fully himself, or is he hiding a part of himself?
• Discussion of the growth these connections may allow before ultimate pairings play out: “Maybe they need each other to become who they are, to then be with their final person.” (31:23)

5. Library Attack: Nesta, Feyre, & Bargains with Darkness (33:15)

• The attack by Hybern’s Ravens is a major turning point:
  • Bryaxis, the monstrous being in the library’s depths, is unleashed in exchange for “company… someone to talk with.” (34:54)
  • Cassian, despite his fear, rushes to protect Feyre; he and Nesta share a rare, raw moment of vulnerability and sibling loyalty.

6. Summer Court Battle & Mask-Off Night Court (37:45)

• Summer Court attacked: chaotic, unplanned first true battle for Feyre as a warrior; Christina highlights Rhysand’s power and the impact of seeing him “mist” the enemy (38:52).
• Feyre’s strategic offer to keep Illyrians stationed as allies; Rhysand publicly declares Feyre as his equal:
  • “She is High Lady of the Night Court. She may do as she wishes.” (40:17)
• Feyre proposes removing their “masks” at the High Lords’ Meeting, so courts can see the truth of the Night Court, not just their reputation. (40:46)

7. Nesta, Cassian, and Multiple “Mate Watch” Moments (43:04)

• Detailed, giddy unpacking of Cassian and Nesta’s emotionally charged moments:
  • Nesta worriedly asks for Cassian by name; “I didn’t think I’d ever heard his name from her lips.” (43:13)
  • Their physical connection, interlacing fingers, and Cassian’s lingering gaze: “There was no warmth, no tenderness... only that raging intensity, that blend of contempt and understanding, and for fire.” (45:14)
  • Nesta’s verbal defense of Cassian at the High Lords’ meeting, calling him “that bastard” who might save their world (48:16).
• Nesta’s growth: asking to attend the High Lords’ meeting because “I do not want to be remembered as a coward.” (49:20)

8. The High Lords’ Meeting: Masks Off, Chaos On (51:36)

• The showpiece scene: every High Lord (except Tamlin, late) gathers; alliances, grievances, and banter abound.
  • Review of each High Lord’s tension or highlights—Viviane gets a shout-out for best supporting wife.
• Tamlin’s notorious entrance: his bitterness derails the diplomatic attempt.
  • Host rage at Tamlin’s lines:
    • Tamlin: “You’re just in the business of fucking them.” (55:12)
    • Feyre’s retort: “The sun was shining when I left you.” (56:06)
  • Host Emma: “When someone says you’re dead, it’s time to lie down. Give it up. It’s done.” (56:54)
• Favorite Azriel Moments:
  • Azriel tells Tamlin: “Be careful how you speak about my High Lady.” (57:52)
  • Azriel attacks Eris for slut-shaming Mor, requiring Feyre’s personal intervention to calm him. (58:41)
• Rhysand, mask off and deadly:
  • Tamlin: “…the moment you let him fuck you…”
    Rhys (quietly silences Tamlin): “The gasping fish look is a good one for you, Tamlin.” (64:05)
  • Everyone, including the other High Lords, is reminded of the sheer force Rhys wields.

9. Moral Complexity: Feyre’s Revenge in the Spring Court (65:45)

• The hosts examine the long-term consequences of Feyre’s actions while undercover:
  • Tamlin (bitter): “You primed my court to fall… those villages you wanted so badly to help rebuild are nothing more than cinders.” (65:45)
  • Emma: “She technically wins, but it’s not a clean victory…It’s pretty morally complex, what she does.” (67:35)
  • Christina: “If Rhys had come in and was just like, ‘I’m getting Feyre back, we’re going to war,’ … would we question it as much?” (67:56)
• Reflection on how SJM doesn’t let the reader forget unintended ripple effects—even, or especially, for beloved heroines.

10. Feyre’s Power Revealed (70:33)

• Baron insults Rhysand; Feyre responds with overwhelming elemental power (all seven courts’ magic revealed).
  • Fierce exchange with Rhysand supporting her mind-to-mind:
    • Feyre, ready to kill Baron: “Then I’ll kill all of them.”
    • Rhys: “I love you. The words of that hateful bastard don’t mean anything. He has nothing of joy in his life. Nothing good. We do.” (71:01)
  • Feyre accidentally outs herself as possessing all High Lord powers—a blow to their strategy, but a mask-off moment for all.

11. High Stakes Cliffhanger (73:14)

• After the first day of the meeting, Nesta senses something is deeply wrong. As the session continues, she collapses—Rhysand confirms Hybern has destroyed the wall.
  • “We were too late, too slow. Hybern just destroyed the wall… the fight is at our doorstep.” (74:03)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• Amren on sacrifice:

  • “I yielded my grace, my perfect immortality. I would feel pain and regret. I would want and I would burn with it. I would fall.” (05:04) – Read by Christina

• Azriel’s dry humor:

  • “Judging by its size, I say it’s been there for 200 years at least.” (08:17) — Azriel, teaching Feyre to fly

• Nefel Philosophy (thematic backbone):

  • “What we think to be our greatest weakness can sometimes be our biggest strength, and that the most unlikely person can alter the course of history.” (09:45) – Recounted by Emma

• Elain’s need:

  • “Sunshine. And we cannot not note that if Lucien is the heir to the Day Court… she wants the sunshine, all of it.” (13:27) – Christina

• Azriel, first to see the seer:

  • “She doesn’t need anything… We’re the ones who need—a seer, he said, more to himself than usual.” (20:36)

• Azriel’s fierce loyalty:

  • “Be careful how you speak about my High Lady.” (57:52)

• Feyre’s retort to Tamlin:

  • “The sun was shining when I left you.” (56:06)

• Rhysand’s effortless dominance:

  • “The gasping fish look is a good one for you, Tamlin.” (64:05)

• Feyre’s confrontation with Baron:

  • “Then I’ll kill all of them… I love you. The words of that hateful bastard don’t mean anything. He has nothing of joy in his life. Nothing good. We do.” (71:01) – Rhys to Feyre, mind-to-mind.

---

Mastermind Section: SJM Multiverse Parallels & Easter Eggs (75:49)

• Rhysand and Aelin Parallels: Both are secret keepers, making high-stakes moves behind the scenes—discussed with reference to Throne of Glass and Kingdom of Ash. (75:49)
• “Crown of Stars” Motif: Noted appearing across SJM’s books, symbolically uniting female protagonists (Feyre, Aelin, others). (78:44)
• Thanatos/Fury Theory:
  • Lord Thanatos from ACOTAR is also a Prince of Hel in Crescent City; the speculation ties Fury's mysterious origins to the Furies (Eumenides) of Greek myth.
  • “Lord Thanatos is having difficulties with his daughter again…” (80:15)
  • Parallels are drawn for SJM-interconnected universe speculation.

---

Flow & Tone

• The hosts keep a warm, witty, and passionate tone, balancing fangirl energy (“We are feral for Azriel!”) with careful critical analysis of character motivations and SJM’s narrative structure.
• They frequently reference running fandom debates (“mate watch” for Nesta/Cassian, Azriel/Elain/Gwyn), striving to honor agency and nuance in romantic ships.
• The podcast is engaging for readers who want both fun and thoughtful and always closes with a welcoming invitation to continue the conversation.

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Amren’s reveal – 04:09
• Azriel & Feyre’s flying lesson – 06:25, 07:16
• Elain’s visions & Mate Watch – 10:22, 13:08, 20:13
• Azriel & Elain analysis – 25:31–33:14
• Library attack & Bryaxis – 33:15–36:44
• Battle at Summer Court & Tarquin – 37:45–40:45
• Cassian & Nesta moments – 43:04, 45:14, 48:16
• Nesta’s character growth – 49:20
• High Lords’ Meeting – 51:36–73:14
• Cliffhanger (wall destroyed) – 73:14
• Mastermind Section (multiverse & theories) – 75:49

---

For Next Episode

• The hosts sign off promising to pick up with the aftermath of the High Lords’ meeting, the war with Hybern, and more SJM cross-series “mastermind” theorizing.
• Spoiler warning: Next time will go into full series and SJM multiverse spoilers.

---

“There’s always room for one more bestie in our book club!” – Flights of Fantasy Podcast

Transcript

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Okay, it's kind of embarrassing how bad I am at budgeting.

[Financial Advisor]

Let me see your charges.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Ugh, fine.

[Financial Advisor]

You spent over $600 on takeout last month.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

I can't cook. You know this.

[Financial Advisor]

Yes, I have had your disgusting food, but you're literally paying for a meal subscription on top of that.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Whoa, wait, wait, wait. That. That can't be right.

[Financial Advisor]

Look, just get Rocket Money. It shows you all of your expenses in one place and even tracks your subscriptions. And if there's a subscription you don't want, which for you, there are a lot you don't need, you can just cancel right in the app with a few taps.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

So you mean I don't call anyone to cancel?

[Christina]

Nope.

[Financial Advisor]

No hold times or anything. And they'll even try to get you a refund on some of the months of wasted money, which is a lot of money for you.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Okay. Okay.

[Financial Advisor]

And if you thought I was done, I'm not. The app can also help you make a budget that works for your income. Anytime you get close to your spending limits, it alerts you so you know exactly where your money is going at all times.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

All right, Emin, what do I have to do?

[Financial Advisor]

Go to RocketMoney.com, cancel or download the app from the Apple or Google Play stores.

[Christina]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[AM PM Advertiser]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Christina]

Could you be more specific?

[AM PM Advertiser]

When it's cravinient.

[Christina]

Okay.

[AM PM Advertiser]

Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at a.m. p.m. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at AM pm.

[Christina]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[AM PM Advertiser]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Emma]

Crave, which is anything from AM pm.

[AM PM Advertiser]

What more could you want? Stop by AM pm, where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. AM PM Too much Good stuff.

[Christina]

Welcome to Flights of Fantasy, your romantasy podcast book club. I'm Christina, joined by my book besties, Kim and Anna. And together we're diving into the characters, theories, lore, and magic behind all your favorite fantasy romance books.

[Emma]

Hi, book besties. Welcome to ACOTAR Revisited, our deep dive back into the series that started it all. We are so excited to be here discussing a court of wings and ruin the third book in the ACOTAR series by Sarah J. Maas. And just a reminder, we will be breaking up each book into multiple episodes so we can take our time with this incredible story. Now, with that being said, and because we have read this series multiple times. We will be discussing each book with the knowledge of the entire series. But before we give our official spoiler warning, Christina has some announcements.

[Christina]

I sure do. So first of all, thank you so so much to everyone who has taken the time to rate and review the show. That is so helpful to us and we so deep appreciate it. If you have not had time yet, please take a moment to do so. We are sending you a big hug and a big thank you for doing that. Also, yes, we are discussing ACOWAR today but as this episode drops it will officially be Brimstone season, the highly anticipated sequel to Kelly Hart's Quicksilver. And you know what that means. Book Besties. It is chapter chat time over on Patreon. Our real time read along reaction videos. We know you guys love it when we get to do these four new releases and we are so so thrilled to get to bring you them for Brimstone. Also this month over on Patreon we have a book club chat covering Slaying the Vampire Conqueror by Carissa Broadbent, an SJM episode covering Bryce and Hunt from Crescent City, and so much more. We've got two tiers starting at $5 a month. Something for everyone and we would love to welcome you into our Patreon family. So come join the [e-mail] flightsofantasypodcast yes.

[Emma]

All right listeners, so consider this your official spoiler warning for the entire ACOTAR series. That's a court of thorns and roses, A court mist and fury, A court of rings and ruin, A court of frost and starlight, A court of silver flames. Let's go. All right, so where we left off from last week's episode, Rhysand, Feyre, Azriel and Mor have just returned from the Hewn City where they were meeting with Kir to ask for his help in the upcoming war. Mor is very upset because of the deals Rhysand sneakily made without really talking with anyone about it with both Kier and Eris. And Amren has been trying to diffuse the situation and this brings us to where we are picking up this episode. Christina, will you take it away?

[Christina]

I would love to. Let's talk about Amren, our tiny ancient one, full of mystery. So this is when she finally really opens up about what she truly is. She explains that she came from another world entirely. Mass verse, anyone? Something ancient and unknowable. Before she took a physical body in this world, she was a creature of pure power, without pain and without emotion. As she puts it Quote, I was perfect according to some. I did not regret, did not mourn and pain. I did not experience it. Oh my God. But even then she was different. Curious, questioning, never quite like the others. As we discussed last week, much like Nesta, she did not fit the mold. And so when a rip in the world appeared as Prythian was being created, it was curiosity that pulled her through it. And when we sit down to really deep dive this, what's so striking is the sacrifice that she made to stay, that she was willing to make that sacrifice to stay. Because what she says is, quote, I yielded my grace, my perfect immortality. I would feel pain and regret. I would want and I would burn with it. I would fall. Oh, wow, the religious undertone, seriously, like Easter eggs, angel hitting us over the head with it a little bit. But you know, we love it. We'll take it. Sarah.

[Emma]

So.

[Christina]

So she. But she did. She chose to give up that perfection for the chance to feel. And as a first time reader, you know that she's something terrifying and powerful. Like, you know, she came from somewhere otherworldly and, and big and ominous. But this is, this is more than we expected. Like, this feels really crazy when you're first reading it. And extra crazy that she chose to become something less in order to truly live. And she was another type of dreamer trapped in her own nightmare. You know, the same way that we say that Mor was a dreamer trapped in a court of nightmares. And it's just another thing to tie them all together. And you know, we will definitely get into this much more next week in our next episode because obviously what Amren's original form is, is extremely important to the ending of this book. So stay tuned for more on that from our religious studies professor, Anna next week.

[Emma]

I can't wait. Yeah, you'll get Sunday school lessons with Anna for the next two episodes. So buckle up everyone. Fair warning. Go read up on your Bible. Yes. All right, so I want to pivot and chat about one of the more tender, sweet moments that happens in these books. And that's Feyre's flying lessons with Azriel. And it might seem like a really small moment in the middle of this big massive war, but for us readers, it's absolute gold. It's the only real one on one time we get with Asriel in the entire book. And considering how mysterious he is, we'll take any breadcrumb SGM can give us.

[Christina]

Anything, Anything.

[Emma]

Literally anything.

[Christina]

Anything at all.

[Emma]

He's normally so quiet and serious, but here with Feyre, we see A different side of him. He's, you know, he's patient, he has a dry sense of humor. He's a tiny bit playful with her.

[Christina]

Yeah. What? What? Ezriel, give us more of this. I know I want this.

[Emma]

And so it's like every smirk, every one liner, we are eating it up. It's a softer, more grounded side of him than we've seen. Right. You know, because it also hearkens back to his inability, the fact that he never learned to fl. So we're seeing this more softer side of him because he understands what Feyre's going through in a very literal sense.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Emma]

So I want to run through a couple important things from these scenes. The first is just kind of a funny, sweet moment that I forgot about when I was reading this scene because I always think, I know that we get a bunch of history lessons with Azriel, which of course I love, but we also get this funny moment, and it's Feyre's learning to fly. And she runs into a pine tree, like, just smacks into it. And she kind of like quips back, like, where did that tree come from? And Azriel's response, it's like so cool and, like calm. Azrael let out a quiet laugh from where he sat atop a boulder watching me pluck pine needles out of my hair and jacket. And then he says, judging by its size, I say it's been there for 200 years at least.

[Christina]

And it's just like.

[Emma]

And there's so many moments like this where he makes these little snarky, sassy comments. And we never get this because I think when he's with Cassian and Rhysand, Cassian and Rhysand take so much of the center stage, right? Because they just have that commanding, dominating presence that really requires everyone's energy and focus. And I think Azriel is the shadow singer. He folds into the shadows, he's stealthy, he's quiet. You don't really know he's there always. And so to get. That's why the one on one moments and seeing this kind of like snarky side of him is so fun.

[Christina]

It's so fun. Exactly. I love it. And I love that it's with Feyre. I love that we get to see it here. And it really helps us then to, as the reader, understand him more and get that other little depth and layer to him that just makes us feral.

[Emma]

And it makes us feral and it makes us hungry for what we hope is to come eventually in ACOTAR 6, you know, regardless if it's Elaine's book or whoever the focus is, I just. I want more of Azrael. Yes, but this is also where Feyre gets a history lesson about Drakin and the Seraphim. So Seraphim listeners, if you forget, the Seraphim are winged Fae, but their wings are feathered, which is more similar to Thessen's winged Fae in his court, which also have feather wings, whereas the Illyrians obviously have bat like wings. Asriel goes on, he explains, you know, the Drakon and Mariam's escape through the parting of the sea. Pinned that for history lessons with Anna. Guys, very important.

[Christina]

Sunday school, it will come up.

[Emma]

Sunday school, it will come up. But most importantly, he explains the Nephil philosophy, which is named after a Seraphim cartographer who ended up saving Miriam's life during the escape through the sea. And what the Nefel philosophy is, is, quote, what we think to be our greatest weakness can sometimes be our biggest strength, and that the most unlikely person can alter the course of. Of history.

[Christina]

Ah, I love that. That whole story is just beautiful.

[Emma]

So beautiful.

[Christina]

Little Nemo wing just always gets me. Oh, that's what I think too.

[Emma]

Nemo.

[Christina]

It's the little fin always gets me.

[Emma]

I love it.

[Christina]

Okay, so let's chat about Lucien and Elaine again. As this are recording, we now do have access to Elizabeth Evans audible. So we are trying to sprinkle in the new pronunciations that she has given us, one of them being Lucian. It's tough because he's Lucian in our head for 10 years, but we're trying our hardest.

[Emma]

Trying our hardest.

[Christina]

All right, so Elain girl is having a rough go. She has been very withdrawn, to say the least. And to combine that with her cryptic ramblings of worms, everyone is officially very concerned about Elaine, including her mate Lucien, who begs Feyre to seek out a healer for Elain. But since Elain is cauldron made, the healer can't find anything wrong with her or her mind. But she does say, quote, if anyone can sense if something is amiss, it's a mate. So we're going to touch on that again in a minute. But first, now that we know that Elaine wasn't just spouting off random cryptic gibberish, let's discuss some of the Easter eggs and like, foreshadowing happening within her ramblings. So the first one that I want to pull here is when she said, I saw young hands wither with age. I saw a box of black stone. I saw a feather of fire, land on snow and melt it. All right, so let's break this down. The hands, the young hands, withering with age. Has to be the human queen. Has to be Feather of fire. Has to be Vassa, our firebird. But what is that box of black stone, you ask? Well, in another later vision, Elain says, quote, there is an onyx box that he possesses, more vital than anything, save for them, the girls. So we can assume that this box of Blackstone is Koshei's box. Some people also theorize this box holds his soul. But more on that and those theories when we get to silver flames. All right, another warning that we get from Elain that's so pivotal is the twin ravens. She says twin ravens are coming. One white and one black. Nobody pays attention. Everyone thinks she's looney Tunes. But we know these are the ravens who attack Nesta and Feyre in the library. Yes, we know it. Now, granted, she wasn't like, they're coming in the library after you two specifically, like, don't go anywhere alone. She was very much like, ravens are coming, and they're like birds. We can handle birds. That's fine. We can handle birds. Like, I can go out by myself if it's just birds. But. Turns out it was not just birds. But she did. She knows these things, and they're. They're inside her. And. God, it's interesting. All right, so. Time for another mate. Watch, everybody. But in a different way than usual. So, after Magda, our healer's suggestion, Feyre arranges a very awkward tea between Elain and Lucien, where, while there, Lucian tugs on the mating bond. He's desperate to just understand it, to see if it'll do anything to. To get Elain out of this. This daze.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And he does feel it. He feels the tug. And so does Elain. And this feeling naturally unsettles Elain. So, of course, Nesta comes rushing in, always the mother hen in a tizzy, and shuts that down real fast. But she asks Elain what she needs, and Elain's immediate response is, sunshine. And we cannot not note that if Lucien is the heir to the day court. Sunshine. All the sunshine. All of it. All the sunshine. She wants to the day court. Very interesting.

[Emma]

And it's even in a court of silver flames, somebody notes that black is just not Elayne's color. She doesn't belong in all of this darkness. Not that Velaris is dark, but it's a different look. And that it's swallows her.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Emma]

And I think of Elain as sunshine, as flowers, as, you know, roses. And I think when she says what she needs is sunshine. I mean, at this point, we don't know that yet, but when you get that reveal at the High Lord's meeting, it's like, what?

[Christina]

Yes. Sunshine, Sun.

[Emma]

Sunshine.

[Christina]

Day.

[Emma]

Yes.

[Christina]

Now, granted, a lot of this also goes with spring, which is also interesting. However, I do think it is fascinating to think about the sunshine here and the specific phrasing of, what do you need the word need?

[Emma]

And she doesn't say flowers. She says sunshine.

[Christina]

Like, she doesn't say potatoes. She doesn't say peonies. She says sunshine. Sunshine. All right, so let's also just pivot here to talk about Elain and Lucien in general, because it's so easy as the reader to be like, elain, Lucien's so sweet. He's trying so hard. Throw the boy a bone. Like, come on. But really, if we think about this from Elaine's perspective, if we put ourselves in her shoes, in Nesta's shoes.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christina]

I don't blame her. Like, I don't blame Elain for not jumping into this whole mating bond thing with Lucian. I think it's totally fair. She was in love. She was engaged to somebody and then thrown into the cauldron, which, let's not forget, from her perspective and Nesta's. Lucien was a part of. He was there. He was complicit. He was a part of the plan to get her thrown in the cauldron.

[Emma]

He was standing with Ayanp and Tamblyn.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Emma]

I would also be like, I'm so sorry. You are responsible for this current. And my brain is not functioning at full capacity. And it's your fault.

[Christina]

And it's your fault. I also see why Nesta is like, hell, no. You were the one that did this to us. Yeah. Nesta's like, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me, and you did it to me and my sister. So how can I just all of a sudden be like, oh, so you say she's your mate, so all of a sudden she's yours, and I can have no say or protect her? Like, no, no, it's. I. I do understand the motivations here.

[Emma]

Yeah, I do. You can't blame Elain for not being overjoyed. She doesn't know him. And also, I think this is very, very important for us all to remember when we go into Akisoff. This is overwhelming. Not only was she turned against her will, her and Nesta, but now they are having to face the reality of living an immortal life and having to deal with these new bodies and yes. Oh my gosh, how awful that you were turned into a beautiful immortal fae. Absolutely. We can all make those jokes and stuff, but it doesn't change the fact that it's trauma and that it wasn't their choice.

[Christina]

Yes, exactly. And the autonomy there being taken away is also the autonomy of the mate. That's just, oh, now I belong to you. Like that is the same feeling really deep down, you know.

[Emma]

Exactly. And I think this is going to be important for us to remember going into Akasoff with Nesta and her reluctance to say the word mate because it's the last part of her humanity that she then has to give up. Changing that word from husband to mate is I think a barrier. And for Elaine, I think this whole idea of maidhood when she was supposed to get married, she was betrothed is to a human who she still break. It still breaks her heart, you know that the person that she was supposed to marry no longer can even look at her.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Think about the last time you had a cancel subscription. There's probably some waiting on hold, some guessing at your password, some mind numbing small talk, and maybe after all that, you still weren't able to cancel it. Good news. It doesn't have to be this way. Thanks to Rocket Money, Rocket Money tracks, manages and can cancel your subscriptions for you. When you connect your accounts, you'll see a complete picture of all your reoccurring subscriptions all in one place. Rocket Money organizes your subscriptions by due date and notifies you when something's coming up so you'll never be caught off guard when you get charged. If you see a subscription you want to cancel, Rocket Money simplifies the process. Instead of waiting on hold for an hour, you can cancel it right from the app. Rocket Money will even try to get you a refund for the money you spent on subscriptions you forgot about. Stop wasting your time trying to cancel subscriptions the hard way. Make your life easier and go to RocketMoney.com cancel. That's RocketMoney.com cancel or download the app from the Apple app or Google Play stores.

[Christina]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[AM PM Advertiser]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Christina]

Could you be more specific when it's cravenient?

[AM PM Advertiser]

Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at a.m. p.m. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at am, pm.

[Christina]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[AM PM Advertiser]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Emma]

Crave, which is anything from am, pm.

[AM PM Advertiser]

What more could you want? Stop by ampm, where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's Cravenience. Am, pm. Too much. Good stuff.

[Christina]

And really, this is such an interesting parallel to Rhys and Feyre, because this may have been Feyre's reaction, too. If Rhys had claimed the bond right away, if he had kind of forced it upon her in a way. Not that Lucien's forcing it, but just even acknowledging it, making her aware of it, is a way of forcing it on her. And Feyre needed that space and that choice, just like Elain does. I think Elain right now needs the space she needs to make this choice for herself. The same way Rhys let Feyre, and instead she is having to deal with all this and it's being forced upon. Like, why do you not want to have tea with him? He's very kind. In Frost and Starlight, Feyre does the whole thing with Elayne. Like, you know, he brought you a present. And Elaine's like, oh, so then he's deserving of me. That's it. You know? And, like, it's valid. Like, I know that it's been, like, a few weeks. Yeah. And, like, I know in Feyre's head, in our head, the main bond's so coveted and beautiful and precious, but to Elayne, it's not. Yet.

[Emma]

It's not.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Emma]

And I think that's what we have to remember for both of them. And Feyre needed time. She was pissed when she first found out. She was pissed because he kept it a secret. But also, like, to your point, her neck snapped. She died. Okay. And if Rhysand had been like, you're my mate, I think she would have looked at him like, are you. Bitch, you crazy? Truly, I just died for another man.

[Christina]

And that's exactly the parallel here.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Elain is like, I. I'm dealing with some trauma. I need a minute. Like, this is. I have voices in my head. I'm all of a sudden Fae. I can't deal with you being my mate right now. I don't know what that means. Like, I. I need a sec. I need a second, please. Maybe that's why she's not talking. Maybe she's like, guys, I just need you all to leave me alone.

[Emma]

I've got immortality to speak. I need a few days.

[Christina]

The mate, honestly, is at the bottom of my list. Like, I've got a lot of Other things going on first.

[Emma]

I'm hearing worms. I'm seeing feathers. Like, guys just. There is enough to deal with.

[Christina]

Lucien, just take a seat.

[Emma]

Take a seat.

[Christina]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. What else about Elaine do you want to talk about?

[Emma]

Speaking of the feathers and the worms, we finally get an answer to Elaine's obsession. Absurd ramblings, right? That she's a seer. So Lucien says he's looking at Elaine. Elaine's rambling. He's like. He's very concerned. Should we. Does she need. And he kind of trails off. And it's Azrael who says she doesn't need anything. Azrael answered without so much as looking at Lucien. Elayne was staring at the spymaster now unblinkingly. We're the ones who need. Azriel trailed off. A seer, he said, more to himself than usual. The cauldron made you a seer. Ooh. And this goes back to what Christina read earlier with Magda the healer, saying, like, a mate can know what another mate needs, right?

[Christina]

100%. This is a huge, huge, huge pro in the Azriel Elaine Being together column for the Azriel Elain girlies.

[Emma]

Yes.

[Christina]

And I see it. I see it here that no one else is seeing this in Elain. Elain is looking at Azriel. And honestly, the writing choice of having him interrupt Lucian to say, I know what she needs is interesting. I'm not gonna say it's not interesting. It is. Yeah, I know.

[Emma]

It is. It is interesting.

[Christina]

I mean, we don't have to love it to think it's interesting.

[Emma]

We don't have to love it to think it's interesting. But anyways, I think this is gonna be really fun, though, in Elaine's book, you know, with her being a seer and all of these things that she sees. Because once we do get inside of her mind and she starts to, you know, see more things, and she starts to try and figure out, what do they mean by, you know, my little detective hat is gonna be sitting there with. I won't even wanna turn the page. I'm gonna be sitting here going, okay, what do I think this means? I'm gonna be picking it apart.

[Christina]

Oh, Anna is gonna have whole vision boards. There's gonna be red string. Okay, so this vision here, she said bird of flame, but here she said worm, but here she talk about this like she's gonna just. I feel like this is gonna be Anna's catnip. The idea that we're gonna be seeing the visions with Thelain in her head. And figuring out the puzzle together is truly a sleuth dream. It's gonna be so fun.

[Emma]

It's gonna be my catnip or I'm gonna go insane. One or the other. I don't know.

[Christina]

Hey, guys. I'm here to record eye twitching. Like.

[Emma]

It'S gonna be great.

[Christina]

Okay.

[Emma]

So, another interesting thing to note specifically about this scene with Azriel noting that she's a seer is Mor's reaction. So Mor's magic is seemingly able to recognize the truth in Azrael's words and confirms that Elayne is a seer. It says more at last blinked mouth parting. Like that magic of hers had at last solved some puzzle. Slowly, clearly, she nodded, confirming that Elena's is here. Guys.

[Christina]

Oh. I just. I. It.

[Emma]

It both. It both intrigues me and enrages me.

[Christina]

Exactly. Morris power. It's too inconsistent. I don't understand. If you can see the truth in his words here, why don't we use it all the time? And I get. Because plot. But, like, in the High Lord's meeting later, like, I don't understand. Just.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christina]

What. What is the. What is the criteria exactly.

[Emma]

What is it? I just. I always go back to that scene in Acomaf where she's with the human queens and she says, my name is Morrigan and my gift is truth. And I'm like, bitch. Is it like, what are you doing? And I don't understand why. We all believe you.

[Christina]

Right. There has to be more to it. I don't believe you.

[Emma]

Okay. So ultimately, at the end of all of this, they realize that there is some Firebird queen that they need to be in search of Vassa. And Lucien is the one that offers to go and search for her since he's like, well, no one needs me.

[Christina]

Literally no one. Especially my mates.

[Emma]

Especially my mates. So I'll be off now on my quest. And he looks up at Elaine, and I think, eventually she turns around and he's already gone.

[Christina]

So this is fascinating to me. Yeah. He looks up at her. She doesn't move. And he's like, okay. And then as he's leaving, she takes a step down, and he doesn't see her take the step down. And I love to think about that moment from a seer perspective. What did she see? What is she seeing that makes her take that step down? Is she trying to say goodbye? Because she thinks, this is it. I know you're going to go live with Band of Exiles. I know. This is our, like, last kind of moment. With you here as a part of the team. Is it? Does she see that? This is my one last chance to try? Because after this, our paths diverge.

[AM PM Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Is she thinking, like, oh, no, I see us being together later, so I want to tell you, be careful. I don't know. I just. I feel like there's something there.

[Emma]

I know. And then the only other moment we get between the two of them is at the end of the book after the battle ends, and they've just buried her father, and they're walking away in the woods. And Lucien, it's almost very historical romance, courtly vibes where they're walking side by side and they don't touch. And Feyre is almost like the chaperone.

[Financial Advisor]

Yes.

[Emma]

And they're walking, and Lucian just, you know, says he calls her lady and he's very sweet with her, and there's a smirk in her face, and she kind of smiles at him. And there is a moment where you go, okay, maybe there is something there. I mean, if there. If we believe the mating bond is real, we're not. We're not in the camp, that it's a fake mating bond. And I. And I do think that there's something in that moment that was really sweet. And then, unfortunately, we don't really get a lot more of it going forward because Lucien goes off to help Vassa, but. Very small moment.

[Christina]

Yeah. But I love it. And especially. Yeah. In this context, I just. I want to know what fueled that step down by her, for her. I just. It's so interesting. Okay, let's take a pivot still Elaine. But let's talk about Elaine and Azriel.

[Emma]

This is a very Lane centered episode.

[Christina]

It is. Okay, so friends, loves book, besties, listeners. Before we get into Asriel and Elaine, we just want to, like, set the tone a little bit. Okay. So, as always, we trust SJM to take these characters where they're meant to go. And one thing she does so well is center this female empowerment and agency in her story. So we just want to keep that spirit at the forefront as we discuss this dynamic. Whether it be Azriel and Elain, whether it be Gwen and Azriel, whether it be any of these female characters with anyone that they choose to be with. And yes, we have not been quiet about the fact that we are firmly Team Gwen Real here at this podcast. We will be shouting that from the rooftops and talking about it a lot in Silver Flames. But we also have to acknowledge and want to acknowledge the very real, very meaningful moments that happen and exist between Asriel and Elaine. Because acknowledging these moments doesn't take away from the Gwyn and Asriel moments. It just. It adds depth to the conversation and it helps us understand everyone's full emotional arcs. And that's really what we're doing here, is diving into the story and enjoying these characters that we love. And we did just want to say this because we know it's a hot button topic which is deeply divided. The fandom don't come for us.

[Emma]

We are being very diplomatic here. Yes.

[Christina]

At the end of the day, we want all these characters to find their happiness. So, yes, we have our preferences. But let's just, as a team, as a group, as book besties, try to remember there is room for thoughtful discussion without tearing anyone down or any character down. We're all here because we care. We're all here because we love these characters.

[Emma]

Yes.

[Christina]

So we just hope you'll join us in showing up with open hearts and thoughtful perspectives all around as we cover these couples going forward.

[Emma]

Yes.

[Christina]

Okay. So Elaine and Azriel, let's talk about some moments here. And someone commented a very interesting thing on one of our reels recently on Instagram. And you went through a journey with it with Kim. Tell me about it.

[Emma]

I did, I did. Somebody commented, have you looked up what Elain is wearing in Acomaf when she first meets Asriel? Well, the whole inner circle in Azriel's there. And I was like, immediately I turned to Kim and I said, well, I mean, I did just read this book, but clearly I didn't note it. And now I'm terrified to look it up. And I don't think I want to.

[Christina]

Know the answer exactly.

[Emma]

But of course I did. Okay. So when they meet for the first time in Acomaf, this is what's said about Elaine and what she's wearing. Elaine, Rasp, nice to meet you. Before hustling after her, the silk skirts of her cobalt dress whispering over the parquet.

[Christina]

So cobalt is specific.

[Emma]

It's very specific because it's used about five times, I think, in the course of Acomath. And majority of it is spent describing Asriel siphon colors. They are a cobalt blue. Yes. Cobalt is also used, I just want to note, to describe aspects of things that are happening with Rhysanda. But mostly it's used to describe as real siphons. And it's a very specific blue color.

[Christina]

It is of every color.

[Emma]

We chose cobalt blue.

[Christina]

It does feel specific.

[Emma]

It does feel specific.

[Christina]

Okay, another moment that we have to Note this is in Acowor. So this is when they are first brought to the townhouse. And Azriel smiles faintly at Elain. Okay, I'm just going to read this whole thing. This is a bit of a paragraph, but just go with me here, okay? Azriel smiled faintly. Would you like me to show you the garden? She seemed so small before him, so fragile compared to the scales of his fighting leathers, the breadth of his shoulders, the wings peeking over them. But Elain did not balk from him, did not shy away as she nodded just once. Azriel, graceful as any courtier, offered her an arm. I couldn't tell if she was looking at his blue siphon or at his scarred skin beneath as she breathed, beautiful color bloomed high on Azriel's golden brown cheeks. But he inclined his head in thanks and led my sister toward the back doors into the garden, sunlight bathing them. Wow, there's a lot to pick apart here. The beautiful moment. It's so sweet. Especially in this quiet way that we associate with Azriel. You know, like that is something he needs, someone who is gonna take a beat, notice him, notice his mannerisms and self in the shadows, and think it's beautiful.

[Emma]

I know. I think. I feel like Azriel looks at Elayne and I wonder if it's. If he sees parts of his mother. I don't want to compare traumas, but obviously his mother, it was terrible how she was treated. But I do think there's. There's aspects of Elain, this soft side of her that maybe he saw in his mother. And I think Elain look at him without being scared and a monster for, like, his scars. I think that is something that. You know, what it reminds me of is when Feyre says reflection, looking back at Tamlin, not comparing Tamlin and Azrael. Don't get it twisted, guys. But what Feyre says is, maybe I caved to the first person who showed me a bit of kindness. And I do wonder if there's a part of Azriel who hasn't had somebody to take care of. And like he says to Rhysand in silver flames, why am I not worthy of having one of these wonderful women like you have Feyre and Cassian has Nesta. And I think he wants desperately for that because Mora is certainly not giving it to him.

[Christina]

Yeah, I think someone like Elain, seeing him as worthy is huge to him. And I do think that at the end of the day, this might be an example of SJM doing what she does best where characters need someone at certain points in their life. I do think that possibly Elain needs Azriel right now. And I do think that Azriel might need Elaine right now to get over more and have that peace and quietness and someone who is paying attention to him. But is that who they ultimately end up with and need? I don't know. But maybe perhaps they need each other to become who they are, to then be with their final person.

[Financial Advisor]

Yes.

[Christina]

And I think that might be what's happening here.

[Emma]

It would be beautiful to see a friendship, like a true friendship blossom.

[Christina]

Yeah, I would love to see that as well. Them maybe be together in some way, but then not leave hating each other. We're not going to have a Tamlin. Like we leave understanding that we needed some time together and understanding we're better with other people. I think that would be beautiful. Okay, sorry. We do have to say. We've already said it. But another thing in this that we have to note is the. If anyone can sense if something's amiss, it's a mate. Asriel does sense the seer thing first. All right. And then last little tidbit we want to note in the Asriel and Elaine section here is he does offer to help her to the garden again. And it says, quote, no shadows at his ear. No darkness ringing from his fingers as he extended a hand. So his shadows missing here is very interesting. Is this him feeling like he can be this other type of person he wants to be? He doesn't have to be shadow in darkness. His shadows don't have to be there. We do have to note that his shadows do fade in Mor's presence. And he's been, quote, in love with her for centuries. However, his shadows do other things with other people. And we're really excited to keep tracking that. And the shadows movements around people as we go forward.

[Emma]

I have a counter to this.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Emma]

So I wonder to me, his shadows pulling back means he can't be himself.

[Christina]

Yes. I love that.

[Emma]

That they're hiding.

[Christina]

He's trying to be something else, not himself.

[Emma]

Right. And to me, like. But shadows are a part of him.

[Christina]

He's a shadow singer.

[Emma]

He should be present. He's a shadow singer. What those shadows do.

[Christina]

What those shadows do. And you know who the shadow singer shadows sing around?

[Emma]

Gwyn.

[Christina]

Gwyn.

[Emma]

We're just gonna. Yep. But we will touch upon his bonus chapter for sure when we get to Silver Flames.

[Christina]

Yes. Okay.

[Emma]

So we are gonna be bop back into the plot here. We are done theorizing about Elaine for a while. So going back to one of her Seer moments, talking about the ravens, that's where we're picking back up. So Feyre and Nesta are in the Library, helping to search for text that can help them in the war. And things quickly take a turn when the Ravens to High Fae, who are essentially these brutal enforcers doing the King of Hybern's dirty work, they invade the Library, hunting for Nesta specifically. And as a reminder, the Library is a sanctuary to so many of its inhabitants, so the fact that its walls are breached is a huge violation. Feyre holds them off just long enough for Nesta to escape. And then she races down into the deepest, most forbidden part of the Library, the place where Bryaxis lives. And she makes a quick little bargain, which I'm gonna get to in a second. So when Bryaxis is unleashed, it is absolutely terrifying. The ravens run screaming. And this is when, of course, Cassian and Rhysand eventually show up. Cassian gets there first, he runs down. It's a really sweet moment, actually, when we get to see it play back through Rhysand's mind that Cassian shows up and Nesta grabs him and she shakes him like, my sister. Like, go get my sister. I love that moment with Nessa. It's another great humanizing moment that SJM weaves in and Cassian runs down there and okay, so this is the bargain. What Briaxis asked for is company, send me company. Feyre goes, I opened my mouth, but then said to eat a laugh that made my skin crawl to tell me of life, is what Bryaxis responds.

[Christina]

Oh God, is she asking for the moon? No, no, just someone to go chit chat.

[Emma]

She just wants someone to talk with. And Cassian, though later, when he finds out what she promised, is absolutely horrified. And Rhysand's like, well, I guess when anyone misbehaves, I'll just send them down to Bryaxis.

[Christina]

That's your punishment.

[Emma]

Cassian, like, turns white as a ghost. And Nesta basically looks at him and is like, but did you die? Like you survived? And Cassian's response is, it wasn't trying to eat me this time. I just love their dynamic. It's so funny.

[Christina]

I read. And I love Cassian being afraid of Bryaxis, this lord of bloodshed. It just helps shape this whole scene and scenario so well. I love it.

[Emma]

And the fact that he went down there despite his fear, he went down there to save Feyre and he's like, close your Eyes, Feyre, don't look.

[Christina]

Yeah. He's like, don't look, don't look, don't look. Oh, God. The whole dynamic there is so, so good and hot. And Rhys is so mad.

[Emma]

Oh, God. He comes back and his hands are bloodied. Like it was the first time we really see a mate terrified for his mate. And he realizes, I didn't think rationally, like, I should have saved one of them for Asriel to torture for information. But I just went a little bloodthirst crazy.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Before all of this happened, before we were rudely interrupted by Hybern's cronies, Nesta and Feyre are actually having a very sweet bonding moment. And Nesta admits that she had no idea that Feyre didn't know how to read. And she asks Feyre, why did you never ask me or Elayne to help you? And Feyre is honest with her. And what she says is, because I doubted you would agree to help. Nesta stiffened, like I'd hit her. Coldness blooming in her eyes. And I mean fair Feyre, because it's not like either of your sisters really showcased an interest.

[Christina]

No. You called her an ignorant peasant.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christina]

It's really eye opening here how Nesta truly doesn't see how her behavior affects other people.

[Emma]

Well, I think this is where she's starting to see it.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Because the next thing that happens is actually a really great conversation that they start to have, and then we get interrupted and it's very infuriating. But Feyre says, why do you push everyone away except Elaine? And Feyre's inner monologue is, why have you always pushed me away? Some emotion gutted in her eyes. Nesta's eyes. Her throat bobbed. Nesta shut her eyes for a moment, breathing in sharply because. And this is where the ravens show up.

[Christina]

God damn it.

[Emma]

And you're just like, what? What were you going to say, Nesta? Like, was this gonna be our breakthrough moment? Now we have to go through all of silver flames?

[Christina]

Truly, the fact that she gave us the because and they got cut off feels like such a tease.

[Emma]

I know. But I really love these sweet moments. And it does feel like Feyre and Nestor are both using their relationship with Elain specifically as they are bonding moments. The crutch of their relationship is Elain, because it's what they can mutually agree. Like, Elaine might be crazy now, so we have to watch out for 100%. And that's how they bond.

[Christina]

Yes. It's their one thing they have in common right now that they both feel strongly about. And it's a safe topic for them.

[Emma]

Yes, exactly. It's a safe topic.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Okay, so we are going to pivot and we move to the Battle of Adriada, which is when Hybern very sneakily attacked the Summer Core in a brutal way. And everybody is freaking out because this is basically the start of the war. And so it's pure chaos. Mor and Feyre are battling in the Summer Corps palace while the High Fae of the Summer Court are scrambling to escape. And they're not helping. They're leaving the Lesser Fae, the servants, the workers behind. And Mor and Feyre don't hesitate. They stay to help fight and protect them. And for Feyre, it's her first real test in battle. There's no planning. Like I said, it was an ambush. And so it's messy, it's chaos, and she's just running on instinct and all of the training that Cassian has instilled in her. Meanwhile, out at sea, Rhysand is on the battleships, facing what appears to be the King of Hybern. But it turns out, is just a projection, an illusion meant to threaten and distract everyone. But still, Rhysand doesn't hold back. And for the first time, we really see the full scale of his power. He mists basically, a snap of his fingers and it's just red mist. Everybody disappears.

[Christina]

It's such an effective storytelling moment because at that point, there was a damper on everyone's power. No one could use their full power. And all of a sudden, the second that's taken away, you understand just how powerful Rhysand is in this moment. And we have seen it before. But something about the way this is written is so powerful, very powerful.

[Emma]

And so when the battle finally settles and Summer Court has regained control and they've pushed Hybern out, Feyre and Mor set off to go find Tarquin. And they do. They find him in his war room. And Feyre offers. You know, she's like, I'm offering to keep an Illyrian legion here to help you, to watch out in case Hyburn decides to come back and attack again. And Tarquin is still pretty angry and bitter about the fact that Feyre and Rhysand lied to him in Acomath, you know, to steal the book. And he's just not quick to trust them at their word. So Feyre just looks at him and she's very Stern and delivers 10 to your wounded Tarquin and then asks him, and please come to the High Lord's meeting, that they've sent notices out. And Tarquin turns to Rhysand and suggests basically to let his mate know not to give other High Lords orders. And what Rhysand's response is, it is so good. She is High lady of the Night Court. She may do as she wishes.

[Christina]

Yes. I love it.

[Emma]

It's a really great moment because this is the first time Rhysand is laying it all out there in front of everyone. She is High lady and she can do as she flies wishes.

[Christina]

Exactly. I love that moment. And then they winnow out. He, like, kisses her forehead, and then it's like, bam. And she just looks back and everyone's shocked. And then they're out of there.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christina]

It's amazing.

[Emma]

But this specific battle and how Tarquin sees them is why Feyre brings up to Rhysand that I think we should remove our masks at the High Lord's meeting. I think everybody needs to see who we really are, not the villains that everybody thinks that we are. And she says, we'll show them the Court of Dreams.

[Christina]

Beautiful.

[Emma]

I love it.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Okay, it's kind of embarrassing how bad I am at budgeting.

[Financial Advisor]

Let me see your charges.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Ugh, fine.

[Financial Advisor]

You spent over $600 on takeout last month.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

I can't cook. You know this.

[Financial Advisor]

Yes, I have had your disgusting food, but you're literally paying for a meal subscription on top of that.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Whoa, wait, wait, wait. That can't be right.

[Financial Advisor]

Look, just get Rocket Money. It shows you all of your expenses in one place and even tracks your subscriptions. And if there's a subscription you don't want, which for you, there are a lot you don't need, you can just cancel right in the app with a few taps.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

So you mean I don't have to call anyone to cancel?

[Financial Advisor]

Nope. No hold times or anything. And they'll even try to get you a refund on some of the months of wasted money, which is a lot of money for you.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Okay? Okay.

[Financial Advisor]

And if you thought I was done, I'm not. The app can also help you make a budget that works for your income. Anytime you get close to your spending limits, it alerts you so you know exactly where your money is going at all times.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

All right, Emin, what do I have to do?

[Financial Advisor]

Go to RocketMoney.com cancel or download the app from the Apple or Google Play stores.

[Christina]

Hey, this is Sarah. Look, I'm standing out front of AM PM right now, and, well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling, Even kind of cheesy. But I like it. Sure. You met some of My dietary needs, but they've just got it all. So farewell, oatmeal. So long, you strange soggy.

[AM PM Advertiser]

Break up with bland breakfast and taste AM PM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit made with K tree eggs, smoked bacon and melty cheese on a buttery biscuit. AM PM Too much. Good stuff.

[Emma]

But there's also this really sweet moment between Feyre and Rhysand. And Feyre says, I love you. His head lifted, eyes churning. There was a time when I dreamed of hearing that, he murmured, When I never thought I'd hear it from you. He gestured to the tent, to Adriada beyond it. Our trip here was the first time I let myself hope. And then, as she remembers, to the stars who listen and the dreams that are answered. And yet today, with Tarquin. Then what she says is, the world should know how good you are, Rhysand. How wonderful all of you are. And it's just such a sweet moment. And I just love that so much.

[Christina]

And it's true. And he needed to hear that from her to make this decision. He was never going to think himself worthy enough, think that his good side was worthy enough, that it would make a difference to people. Yeah. And having her say it, I think just is so beautiful. I love this.

[Emma]

I love it so much.

[Christina]

Okay, so next up, let's talk about Cassian and Nesta. Oh, yay. Always so fun. We get a new mate watch moment.

[Emma]

I love a mate watch.

[Christina]

Guys, we love a mate watch. It's just slowly, progressively getting more and more obvious. It's a steady rise of matewatch moments until we get to silver flames. All right, so when everyone gets back from the battle at Adriada, they all went out of the townhouse, except for Cassian, because he is off visiting the families of the fallen soldiers. Now listen to this quote. Nesta was glancing between us all, her back still stiff, mouth a thin line. Where is he?

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Who?

[Christina]

Rhys crooned. I love the idea of him being like, hey, Nesta, tell me, who do you like? I don't think he said it like that, but in my mind it's like, who? Yeah, it's so funny. Okay, who? Rees. Crude Cassian. I didn't think I'd ever heard his name from her lips. Cassian had always been him. Or that one. And Nesta had been pacing in the foyer as if she was worried. Oh, God, she was worried. It's this moment where Feyre's picking up on this. And so you as the reader are like, this is not just in my head. Validation.

[Emma]

Validation.

[Christina]

She's worried. Oh, and then later he does return and she sees him for the first time. Also a huge moment. Quote, hello, Nesta. Rhys seemed to halt his winnowing as my sister said, so you're alive. Cassian bared his teeth in a feral grin, wings flaring slightly. Were you hoping otherwise? Moore was watching, watching so closely, every muscle tense. She again reached for his arm. Because she's about to winnow him away. She again reached for his arm, but Cassian angled out of reach, not tearing his eyes from Nesta's blazing gaze. Nesta blurted, you didn't come to. She stopped herself. The world seemed to go utterly still at that interrupted sentence. Nothing and no one more so than Cassian. He scanned her face as if furiously reading some battle report. Morges watched as Cassian took Nesta's slim hand in his own, interlacing their fingers.

[Emma]

Oh my God.

[Christina]

As he folded in his wings and blindly reached his other hand back toward Mor in a silent order to transport them. Cassian's eyes did not leave Nesta's, nor did hers leave his. There was no warmth, no tenderness on either of their faces, only that raging intensity, that blend of contempt and understanding, and for fire. Rhys began to winnow us again. And just as the dark wind swept in, I heard Cassian say to Nesta, his voice low and rough, the next time, Emissary, I'll come say hello. Oh God, it's good, guys, this is everything.

[Emma]

I love it. And I also love the way that they're described as this raging inferno and how different that is from Feyre and Rhysand, where it's like a slow smolder and like it. The flames kind of like, you know, have to be fed and whereas Cassian and Nesta are just like right there and like I said, a raging intensity, that blend of contempt and understanding and fire, like they are both warriors. Nesta right now is not in the sense of that. Cassian is a warrior. She hasn't picked up a sword, but she is so fierce and powerful that of course we don't know just how powerful she is yet, but she is so powerful and there is so much anger and rage inside of her. And I think it's why they just work, because Cassian sees that and he's like, let's go, I'm here.

[Christina]

It matches him so well and compliments him so well. And he sees this in her where everyone else just sees her as a bitch. Everyone else sees her as just having walls up and he says, sees the little nooks and crannies within those walls. And it's so beautiful. I love what you said about how it's just this raging inferno. It's so them. And I do want everyone to pen Mor's reaction here, everything with Cassian's dynamic with Mor in this exact moment. I don't know when we're going to be able to break it down. Probably not till Frost and Starlight. But stay tuned because we really want to talk about this and this dynamic as a whole where it comes to Moore's reactions to Nesta. But there's just. There's a lot going on. We gotta just keep focused on Acolar. But I promise we'll get there. Okay, so another Mate Watch moment that we just want to call out really quickly. This is going to be in High Lord's meeting, but we got to say it here with Mate watch. So Baron, just the awful, horrible trash person that he is, fracking trash. Is of course being an asshole in the High Lord's meeting, as he always is. And he says to Cassian, I don't take orders from bastards. And Nesta. Nesta fucking claps back and says that bastard. Nesta said with utter coolness, though her eyes began to burn like an inferno. Quote may wind up being the only person standing in the way of Hybrid's forces and your people. God, it's good. I love that Nesta stands up for Cassian in this moment. To Baron, to a High Lord of the Autumn Court. And it's something Cassian needs in his inner soul. Because he agrees with people when they say that he's a low born Illyrian brute. Yes. And not only having someone defend him, but having his mate, which he doesn't know yet, but he like has to know as well. Kind of. Yes, do that for him. It's just, I think that means tenfold so much more to him than if anyone else had said it.

[Emma]

Yes, I agree. I think it is such an important moment for the two of them. And also Nessa showcasing that like I might be a bitch and I might call things out to him, but nobody else is allowed to be a bitch to him.

[Christina]

No, he might be a bastard, but he's my bastard.

[Emma]

He's my bastard.

[Christina]

I can call him that and you can.

[Emma]

I love it so much. And while we're on the subject of Nesta, before we get into the High Lord's meeting, there's a really beautiful growth moment that happens here with Nesta. Right before they leave, she appears. She's all decked out in her classic Nesta demure Fashion. And she asks if she can go. And she has historically said, like, I'm not a part of this. But this is after the battle of Adriada. This is after she didn't know if Cassian was safe or not.

[Christina]

And after she asked Feyre, why did you go fight? And Feyre said, it's the right thing to do. And she said, also in the library, why did you sacrifice yourself for me? Why did you fight? And she's like, well, you're my sister. I think she's seeing this behavior from Feyre and she's realizing, why can't I do that? Back in the day, when they lived in that cottage, she was so angry that she wanted her father to step up and do something. And he didn't. But this is her time to step up and do something.

[Emma]

She doesn't want to be her father. Yeah. Yes. So this is the quote. Nesta lifted her chin. I. And then she kind of stumbles over her words. I do not want to be remembered as a coward. And Feyre says, no one would say that I would. Nesta says. Nesta surveyed us all, her gaze jumping past Cassian not to slight him, but avoid answering the look he was giving her approval more. It was some distant thing. She said, war. Battle. It's not anymore. I will help if I can. If it means telling them what happened. You went off to battle for a court you barely know, who barely see you as friends. Ayrn showed me the blood Ruby. And when I asked you why, you said it was because it was the right thing to do. People needed help. No one is going to fight to save the humans beneath the wall. No one cares. But I do. She toyed with the fold in her dress. I do.

[Christina]

Oh, I love this.

[Emma]

It's such a beautiful ness moment. Because she's so harsh and she's so cold and she's all of these things. And my God. We take a giant leap forward in this book, only to really fall backward in the novella and then in the beginning of Akisoff. But it's these glimpses that Sarah puts in here. And there are so many more. And we get into the final parts of this book. But Sarah is so smart to give us these little breadcrumbs of what Nesta has the possibility to become. And that's what makes her complete emotional breakdown so much harder. Because we see where she could be. And then when she's so harsh and nasty in the beginning of Akasoff, it's like.

[Christina]

It's so much harder to read exactly so well said. Yes. I love this. I love her not only recognizing this, but saying it out loud.

[Emma]

That is.

[Christina]

This is a huge, huge growth moment. And she's about to keep having growth moment when she says she is vulnerable in front of the High Lords. Okay, so speaking of the High Lord's meeting, guys, buckle up.

[Emma]

Get on that magic score. Here we go.

[Christina]

We're going to the meeting of the year, everybody. Everybody sent their RCPs in except Tam Tam. And here we are. All right, this is one of the most anticipated moments in Acowar, and boy, golly, does it deliver. But we do also want to give a friendly reminder that we have a full, dedicated SJM series episode on this over on Patreon. And we also cover it in depth in our original Acka war coverage back in season two. So for today, we're going to focus on our biggest moments from these chapters and a brief overall view of our favorite lines, favorite quotes, and the takeaways. So, to start off, here's a little overview of this wild and crazy meeting. All seven High Lords, most of whom barely tolerate each other, are crammed into one, albeit beautiful, ruin the Dawn Court to try and form an alliance against Hybern. And it's basically just a diplomatic battlefield. Right from the start, it's clear that no one's on the same page. Tarquin is still furious with Rhys and Feyre for stealing the Book of Breathings from the Summer Court. Baron is his grumpy, awful self from the Autumn Court, just smug and awful as ever. Helion, truly the highlight of the day. Court is honestly a delight. He's a blast. He's got charisma. I also love later when he's like, oh, I thought we were wearing our mean masks, guys. I didn't get the memo. You should have told me we're doing masks off today. This is. I was being mean, me. And later we find out he's actually Dun, dun, dun. Lucian's secret actual father plot twist. I'm obsessed with this. There's also a lot to unpack there with him and the threesome and the stuff. It's just. God, it's delicious. Okay, and then we have Thiessen from the Dawn Court, who is quiet and thoughtful and very focused on the facts and unsuccessfully trying to keep everyone focused on the matter at hand. And of course, we have Callias of the Winter Court, who keeps mostly to himself, still cautious after Amarantha's rule, but his wife, Vivian is. Is absolutely an unexpected treat. Really steals the show.

[Emma]

I love her.

[Christina]

Okay, Rhysand, makes his mask off debut entrance still with maximum drama, bringing Feyre as High lady, which immediately throws everyone off, including Vivian, who says, why can't I be High Lady? It's so good.

[Emma]

I love her.

[Christina]

She's so good. And I. I love her. And Callius's story, God, I love them. Okay, so Favor sitting at this table as his equal sets the tone. Things have changed. And you know who's not on board? Timothy Tam. So Tamlin, of course, is furious, and his entrance is pure chaos. He accuses Rhys and Feyre of manipulating him, blames them for everything, and ultimately tries to derail this entire meeting to turn everyone against the Night Court. But Feyre holds her ground beautifully, shutting him down with grace and power. And ultimately, Tamlin comes off looking like a petty child, wanting everyone to care more about his hurt ego and his Jerry Springer drama than the war at hand. So, yes, the meeting itself is a hot mess. But despite all the arguing, some real alliances start to take shape. And even though it's fragile, it is something friends. So let's run through some of our most famous quotes from this scene, starting. Oh, God. With Tamlin himself.

[Emma]

Oh, Lord, I seriously can't with this quote you're about to read.

[Christina]

The rage I feel every time I read these lines, it truly, it never goes away. However many times I read this scene, it is so awful. The how desperate and petty he is. This is his worst side, just on full display.

[Emma]

It really is.

[Christina]

It's so bad. I remember vividly where I was the first time I read this scene. So Rhysand says, quote, I'm not in business of discussing our plans with enemies. No, Tamlin said with equally, you're just in the business of fucking them.

[Emma]

How very dare you, sir, like, take several seats.

[Christina]

My God. He just. He comes in and every single thing he says, he can't let it go. It's like a vial. He just, like, jabs.

[Emma]

He's just digging the hole deeper and deeper and deeper.

[Christina]

And it's. It's the juxtaposition of Rhys trying to really, like, focus on the matter at hand, trying to be mask off, trying to be civil, even with Tamlin, who he hates so much. And Tamlin is just being such a petty child. He's just jabbing and saying these vile things, and it's just. He tries to bring everything back to them. And he says, quote, another one. If you hadn't stolen my bride away in the night, Rhysand, I would not have been forced to take such drastic measures to get her back. Feyre's response to this iconic quote, the sun was shining when I left you. Yes.

[Emma]

She's like, I'm laying this on the table. I wasn't stolen. He didn't take me against my will. I left you. I also sent you a note, asshole, and said I was fine.

[Christina]

Yeah. And she does later say, you don't get to rewrite the narrative. You don't get to do that here. And I love that she's standing up for that.

[Emma]

No, I feel like at this point, they're mates, first of all, so that in and of itself should be enough. Feyre seems happy. She told you she was happy. I understand why. If you believe that the Night Court is actually truly evil, and if you got this narrative, sure, maybe you might be like, oh, this was a manipulation. Oh, she wrote this under duress. But no, Lucian then saw her in Acomath. Then again, when they're in high, before he turns the sisters. Then she leaves you again in the beginning of Acowar, like, dude, when someone says, you're dead, it's time to lie down. Like, give it up. It's done.

[Christina]

Yeah, but that's the thing. At this point, I don't even think he wants her back.

[Emma]

No.

[Christina]

He's just so bitter and hurt and. And I really think a lot of this is some of that toxic masculinity there. How dare she do this to me? How dare anyone not want me? And there's also the history with him and Rhys. There's so much happening here, and he cannot see past it to deal with the matters at hand. He just brings everything back to them.

[Emma]

I want to pivot here and discuss one of our favorite Azriel moments. There's a couple, but it kicks off with one of Tamlin's worst lines. It says, tamlin only angled his head at Rhys when you fuck her. Have you ever noticed that little noise she makes right before she climaxes? And this is. Farah says, this is a systematic annihilation of my character. Like, this is all to make me feel and look like an idiot and embarrass me. And before anybody can say anything, what is written is. But it was Azrael who said his voice, like, cold death. Be careful how you speak about my high lady.

[Christina]

Bam.

[Emma]

That ownership of, like, that's my high lady you're speaking to, and I will fuck you up.

[Christina]

And from Azrael, our man of few, to no words.

[Emma]

It's so good.

[Christina]

It's so good.

[Emma]

I know. And then we have another one where Aerys is being such a Little shit. I mean, honestly, he's wearing his asshole mask, which we know he has to do because he's in front of his father and his brothers and he has to play the part, but, my God, he makes it really hard.

[Christina]

We are rooting for you to have a redemption arc. This does not bode well.

[Emma]

I know, and I get it. I get it. If he doesn't play it well enough, Baron could distrust him and have him killed. But the words are really hard to swallow. And so what he says to Mor, he looks at her and he says, good to know that after 500 years, you still dress like a slut. That word.

[Christina]

Yeah, the word choice.

[Emma]

So he says that to Mor, and the next thing that's written is, one moment, Azrael was seated, the next, he blasted through Eris's shield with a flare of blue light and tackled him backwards, wood shattering beneath them. Shit. Cassian spat.

[Christina]

Oh, my God, so much here. Asriel, who is always a shadow, like, never actually in this setting, you're going to be the first one to start a physical fight. And he tackles him backwards.

[Emma]

And it's like, whatever magic he possesses, whatever makes him a shadow Singer, he's able to break through the wards that are there to, like, stop the magical fighting. And he attacks Eris. And then I love the Cass and being like, shit. God damn it. Oh, fuck. And then, because it's Feyre who gets up and she walks over and she puts her hand on Azrael's shoulder and she says, come, Azrael. And he, like, lowers his magic, and it's like she's the only one that can break through to him because Mor is sitting there frozen like a ice pop. She's just, like, not moving. She's, like, not moving.

[Christina]

Yeah. But Rhys, his High Lord, has said, azriel, enough. And he didn't. Nothing happened.

[Emma]

Nothing happened.

[Christina]

And it feels almost like a parallel than the moment earlier in the book where they're on the ice plane and she has Cassian and Azriel, halt, Stop attacking Aerys and his brothers. And they listen to her without question. They just do exactly what their High lady asks of them. And it's very similar here, but in such a different stakes, but also high stakes. It's beautiful.

[Emma]

And I love that she brings him over, she brings him a glass of water, and it's just this beautiful moment. And they look at her like, why are you waiting on him? He's supposed to be your servant or whatever. And she's like, this is my family.

[Christina]

Exactly.

[Emma]

Don't fuck with my family, don't fuck with them.

[Christina]

They are my family and I don't look at him like you look at people who are under you in hierarchy and it's another mask off moment. It's important. Important for mask off.

[Emma]

It really, really is. And then, you know, obviously it really spooks Mor. Like I said, she's sitting there frozen. Rhysand points out to Farah later that Morg gets spooked when Azriel shows these big signs of affection, but we will unpack that later.

[Financial Advisor]

Yes, think about the last time you had to cancel a subscription. There was probably some waiting on hold, some guessing at your password, some mind numbing small talk, and maybe after all that you still weren't able to cancel it. Good news, it doesn't have to be this way. Thanks to Rocket Money Rocket Money tracks, manages and can cancel your subscriptions for you. When you connect your account, you'll see a complete picture of all of your recurring subscriptions all in one place. Rocket Money organizes your subscriptions by due date and notifies you when something is coming up, so you'll never be caught off guard when you get charged. If you see a subscription you want to cancel, Rocket Money simplifies the process. Instead of waiting on hold for an hour, you can cancel it right from the app. Rocket Money will even try to get you a refund for the money you spent on subscriptions you forgot about. Stop wasting time trying to cancel subscriptions the hard way. Make your life easier and go to RocketMoney.com cancel. That's RocketMoney.com cancel or download the app from the Apple app or Google Play stores.

[AM PM Advertiser]

The world is buzzing with AI tools, but instead of making things easier, they've made your workflow overwhelming. You're stuck copying, pasting, context switching, and juggling too many apps. There's now a better way that outsmarts the word chaos. Meet Superhuman, the AI productivity suite that gives you superpowers. Everywhere you work with Grammarly, mail and coda working together, you get proactive help across your workflow, from writing to preparing for meetings, presentations, and so much more. Think of Superhuman as your AI dream team, proactively helping you go from to do to done faster. Superhuman knows what you might need and offers suggestions. Whether you're drafting emails, creating documents, or more. It guides you in the moment so you sound like your best self and stay focused on what matters. There are even specialized agents designed to collaborate seamlessly and amplify your impact. Unleash your Superhuman potential today. Learn [e-mail] podcast. That's superhuman.com podcast.

[Emma]

Christina, will you take us to a big moment with Rhysand?

[Christina]

Yes. Dad is mad. Okay, so another hugely important moment is when we see Rhys unleash this power. All right? He's got his mask off. He's trying to be nice and show that he's not the scary monster that he's had to pretend to be. But don't you mess with Feyre, darling. Okay, so Tamlin takes it one step too far. And Rhys goes off. This is from Tamlin. Quote, why would I want spoiled goods returned to me? My cheeks heated. Tamlin growled the moment you let him fuck you like an one heartbeat. The poisoned words were spewing from his mouth where fangs lengthened. Then they stopped. Tamlin's mouth simply stopped emitting sounds. He shut his mouth, opened it, tried again. No sound, not even a snarl came out. There was no smile on Rhysand's face. Not a glint of that irreverent amusement as he rested his head against the back of his chair. The gasping fish look is a good one for you, Tamlin. God, I love it. The others, who had been watching with disdain and amusement and boredom, now turned to my mate, now possessed a shadow of fear in their eyes as they realized who and what exactly sat among them. Brethren. And yet not. Tamlin was a high lord, as powerful as any of them, except for the one at my side. Rhys was as different from them as humans were to Fae. They forgot it sometimes, how deep that well of power went, what manner of power Rhys bore. But as Rhysand ripped away Tamlin's ability to speak, they remembered.

[Emma]

Oh, God, it's so fun to see these moments of his power like we see it in Adriada with the misting. But then this, where it's like a casual. He barely lifts a finger and it's just like, stop talking, Tamlin.

[Christina]

And it's moments like this that even hearken back to the first book. The quiet power, the juxtaposition of their two powers. Tamlin is literally snarling with fangs lengthening out of his mouth. And Rhys lays his head back in his chair. And the quiet ease of his power is so much scarier, so much more impactful. So much more. Just more. It's so fun to read.

[Emma]

Oh, my God, I love it.

[Christina]

Also important to note, as we think about Mask off moments here, two Mask off wins that we get are Callius, who accepts that Rhys did not have anything to do with the murdering of the children of the Winter Court. He and Vivian believe him. And that Is good. We're moving past that. But also important to note a mask off win from Tarquin as well, who acknowledges that the Night Court was the only court to come to their aid when they were attacked by Hybern. So he officially rescinds the blood rubies and says there's no debts. So those are big wins for.

[Emma]

Big wins for Team Night Court. Okay, I want to pause here and have a little Feyre conversation.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Emma]

So I was not here for the beginning of Acowar when she seeks her revenge in the beginning of the book, but I want to read this quote from Tamlin. So it starts with, you primed my court to fall, Tamlin said with venomous quiet. And it did. Those villages you wanted so badly to help rebuild, they're nothing more than syndicated. So I want to talk about Feyre's takedown of the Supreme Court. I know you guys have already touched upon this, but I just. This is the moment where I think Feyre is finally told to her face. Listen, you did things, and we are rooting for her, right? I remember reading it for the first time and being like, yeah, girl, get it. It's amazing. And then I've reread it, and it is. It's pretty morally complex what she does. You know, she. It's very shortsighted. We're taking out the villains, we're taking out Ianthe, we're taking out Tamlin. And yes, Ianthe is a true villain. Tamlin is complicated, but she ends up wrecking an entire court in the process. Innocent people, farmers, soldiers, workers, they're the ones that are left in limbo here. There's no leadership, there's no protection. Feyre technically, quote unquote, wins, but it's not a clean victory. And I feel like that's. That's not talked about enough when people have these conversations surrounding the book. And it's because we don't hate Feyre. You know, it's just that it is morally complex that she doesn't think about what the long game is here. And I also never thought about this before, but is there a gendered lens here? Because if a man did this, is it the same thing? Like, there's so many movies and books where it's, the man who's coming in, he's seeking revenge, and it's done through bloodshed and a sword. And this was quiet, almost a more of a manipulation and systematic, like, annihilation of the court. And I feel like in some ways, because it's not bloody, it seems dirtier.

[Christina]

Oh, Interesting. Yes.

[Emma]

This is not normally how you would see a man take it down. This is like a woman's game. And I wonder if that's why, you know, just kind of calling myself out. Does it hit that way because she is a woman? But like what I see. Say it. If there was bloodshed and there was a man, you know.

[Christina]

Yeah. Like if Rhys had come in and was just like, I'm getting Feyre back. We're going to war.

[Emma]

Yes.

[Christina]

And I, I think Rhys is an interesting example because I do think we see this behavior from Rhys. I think Rhys would have done this. He did it under the mountain with Amarantha. Double agent situation. Very true as well. Jurian is a double agent situation, taking things down from the inside parallel. But we don't see them being as short sighted. We don't see the long term repercussions for innocent people from those, those double.

[Emma]

Agent games because we're not getting their POV too. But also Rhysand, that's a great point. I hadn't thought about that. Because Rhysand does play those mind games under the mountain, obviously. And we do question some of his behavior. Kim and I, when we broke down the, with the dancing and all of that. Like, we did question that. It's a morally gray, complex area that he does and he says he has his reasons. And because you're in Feyre's mind and you fall in love with Rhysand, we trust those reasons and we're in Feyre's mind and she's taking down the Spring Corps and we're like, rah, rah, yay. But to Tamlin's point, it's like, what did you think was going to happen? You took me down, but you took down my entire court, remember? She also systematically had all the soldiers, all of his sentinels, not trust him by the end. So who would fight and defend those people? They're like, you can't even rule us.

[Christina]

Exactly. It is so much fun. But when it comes down to it, she was not prepared for this. She is not 500 year old double agent jury or Rhys.

[Emma]

True.

[Christina]

She was not prepared enough to be this level double agent. She was thrown in and her revenge blinded her from playing the game as effectively as she could have.

[Emma]

Yeah. And that's what revenge is. Revenge does that. That's what it does.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Emma]

But I also think that this is what makes her story so compelling. Right. She's not a perfect heroine. Neither is Rhysand.

[Christina]

No.

[Emma]

It's messy. And that's honestly, though, what makes them so interesting to Read, though, is that we have to grapple with these things and they're human and they make mistakes 100%.

[Christina]

Well, fair.

[Emma]

Yes. But it humanizes them.

[Christina]

Exactly. And honestly, I love that she put this in here. I think Sarah could have just not had this line from Tamlin. We, as the reader, could have just kind of forgotten about the villagers and forgotten about the long term repercussions of the Spring Court and lived in the revenge era. Fun. But I like that she is making us think about it too.

[Emma]

I do too. And you know, at the end of the day, it is war times.

[Christina]

It is war times, people.

[Emma]

We are doing things. And sometimes it's. It's not a great decision, but it is the one you made. And so you gotta see it through.

[Christina]

So you gotta make hard decisions sometimes when you're Slytherins in war times.

[Emma]

All right, Christina.

[Christina]

Okay. Another big moment for Feyre here. So Baron is Baron, and he calls Rhys a whore for like the fifth time and starts to suggest that Rhys may spread his legs for Hybern. He takes it far, too far. And in this moment, Feyre shows really the strength of her magic for the first time, and in the process reveals that she does possess a little bit of all seven of the High Lord's magic.

[Emma]

It's supposed to be a secret going into this meeting, but which was really.

[Christina]

Like the big thing. We can take our masks off, but let's not tell them that you have all the magic. Like, let's hold that one to our chest. But so Baron says this awful thing to Rhys and quote, I stopped hearing the words, stopped hearing anything other than my heart. My breathing fire exploded out of me. Raging white hot flame that blasted into Beren like a lance and sent a wave of water through the reflection pond to encircle Baron in his chair. A bubble without air. Flame pounded against it, turning water to steam. But I pushed harder. I'd kill him. Kill him and gladly be done with it. You've proved your point, my love, Rhys said. Kill him and horrible Aeris will take his place. Then I'll kill all of them, she says. Mind to mind, he says. As interesting and exciting experiment as that might be, Rhys crooned. It would only complicate the matters at hand. Into my mind he whispered, I love you. The words of that hateful bastard don't mean anything. He has nothing of joy in his life. Nothing good. We do. Oh, God. Sweet, wise Rhysand. I love this. And I love that Tamlin is watching this one. He is seeing her use this power. That he was content to just let her hide and push down. He is seeing what immense amount of power she has. And then he is seeing this sweet, gentle, amazing, patient and supportive behavior from Rhysand. You proved your point, my love. And they look at each other and I have to think, you know, they're speaking mind to mind. And then the sweetness and gentleness there, it's so beautiful. And I love that everyone's seeing it. I think it's a great mask off moment for everyone.

[Emma]

I agree.

[Christina]

Everyone gets a little focused on her having all the power. But, you know, I also love how Calli is here, is like, well, you didn't do mine. Did you learn mine too? Did you get mine?

[Emma]

What about me? She's like, yes, I mastered them all.

[Christina]

She's like, okay, just making sure I'm involved.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Although this was really unfortunate because she shouldn't have told them all. And Baron. And everyone's like, you stole my magic. You didn't notice it was gone. It's like a fish scale.

[Emma]

She was like, it was a gift and it's mine now, so.

[Christina]

Exactly. And. And I'm gonna use it to take down Hybern. And if you are worried about a kernel of your magic being gone, then you are focused on the wrong things, you horrible. Yeah, okay.

[Emma]

Okay. So where we are going to leave off this episode is with a really important moment with Nesta. She senses something is off the evening after the first meeting, and she can't quite put her finger on what it is, but she knows something is wrong. Cassian, of course, doesn't doubt her for a second, but Azriel and his spies can't detect any image issues. So day two of the meeting continues until Nesta falls to the ground and starts retching. Rhysand uses whatever crazy type of, like, power he possesses to spear across Prythian, basically, and then announces to the room, we were too late, too slow. Hybern just destroyed the wall. And that's how basically the the High Lord's meeting wraps up is with that moment and them all realizing, well, shit, the fight is at our doorstep.

[Christina]

We're at war.

[Emma]

And now it's go time. And so that's where we're going to leave off this week's episode and we're going to pick up right after that next week. But before we sign off this episode, we are going to move into our Mastermind section. So welcome to our favorite little corner where we peel back the curtain and all the brilliant foreshadowing plot threads and Easter eggs. Sarah J. Maas has been planting since page one. A quick spoiler warning from here on out, in addition to Acotar, we will be referencing the entire Throne of Glass and Crescent City series. So if you have not finished those yet, cheers and happy reading. We will see you next time. And if you're all caught up, let's dive in. All right, so the first thing I want to talk about is Rhysand and Aelin, and kind of how they're both secret keepers, because Rhysand in this part of the book, when they're in the Hewn City, you know, we see for the first time him kind of have to play the High Lord and he has to make. He's, you know, making deals behind the scenes. And it's very similar to what Aelin does. And it's one of the things that frustrates the people closest to her the most, is the secret keeping, is Aelin's reluctance to allow others in on her secrets and what she's planning. And I think where. I don't think Rhysand is as bad as Aelin is in that sense. This is a moment, though, where Rhysand kind of took the reins and made a deal without really getting anyone else's approval, because that's his prerogative as the High Lord. And, you know, what Amren says to him later is, yes, you made the right call. You played it well, but you also played it badly, and you should have trusted us. But an interesting similarity is, like, when Aedion's like, where are our armies, Aelin? Like, where are they? And then, sure enough, up they roll. But it's too late because Aelin's being taken off in an iron coffin. Brutal.

[Christina]

But it's. It's exactly that feeling, though, of the inner circle and the Cadre, and just trust us to help you. You don't have to carry all this alone, like, let us in so that we can help you. I think Rhysand, in this example, was trying to fix it before it was even a problem. Exactly. But still, the parallel is there that he didn't tell. And it's him behind the scenes being the puppet master, not wanting to put that on everyone else, when really everyone would love to be in on these things to help.

[Emma]

Well, with the deep underlying fear here, I think, for Rhysand throughout the book, More. Not even just here in the Hewn City, this moment, but what he talks to Feyre about is, I will give everything. I will give every piece of myself before anybody else has to suffer. And Aelin is the same way, because she will not have another Sam. She will not have another Marian moment. She is like, I will give and give and give. And she does. In Kingdom of Ash, she gives up her human side and she gives up her magic so that she can save and lock the keys up. I will suffer so that nobody else has to. And that they both have this savior complex. And it's Cassian who says later, like, let us help you. Let us be there for you, remember?

[Christina]

And like I think I mentioned earlier in this episode, Rhys on the roof later telling Feyre, this is why I take everything on myself. More crying today is why they, both of them would rather honestly die than one of their people hurt. And it's. It's hard.

[Emma]

It is hard.

[Christina]

But, God, does it make a good plot.

[Emma]

And also, just before we move on to this really fun little other thing theory, while we're on the subject of Aelin, you know, because we had just talked about Feyre being not perfect, it's Aelin and Bryce. And people get so frustrated with Aelin. And I understand she is frustrating at times. I would honestly say Feyre, of the three of them is probably the least hard to deal with. You know, Bryce has all of this grief and things that really kind of make her snarky in the beginning of Crescent City. And Aelin obviously has so many tricks, trust issues, and she's so angry. But the three of them, that's what makes Sarah's writing so fun or why I find her main female character so compelling to read is because they're not perfect. And it's so boring if they were perfect.

[Christina]

Agreed. I love to see them each make bad calls. All three of them sometimes make a bad decision or they don't think about the repercussions or something bad happens because of a cause and effect of something they did and they have to grapple with that. And I think think we see it more with Aelin and Bryce because they're like kind of in charge more. They have more big decisions to make than Feyre does. But. But she does make those decisions in the Spring Court. And that's when we see it.

[Emma]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Christina]

So another fun, just little parallel here is when we think about Feyre's crown of stars. Guys, there are so many crowns of stars in Throne of Princess.

[Emma]

There are.

[Christina]

I can't even tell you. When I started going through this, I was like, oh, good Lord. So none of them are exactly the same. There's difference in each of them. But God, it's such a fun parallel. Okay, so we have Manon's crown, which is the Kraken crown. We also have Mab's crown is described as a crown of stars, and Elena's crown is described as a crown of stars. It is so fun. These different crowns of stars on these different women used in different spaces and times, and just that fun little parallel between them and what they bring about in the storytelling. It's so fun.

[Emma]

I love when she does that. I mean, who's to say what it means? I don't think it necessarily means anything. It's just, like, fun how she ties in all these different little moments. The final Little Mastermind 1, which is really fun. We've actually talked about this in one of our Crescent City theories episodes before CC3 came out. But this is a quote from when they are in the hewn city when Kier is leaving the meeting with Rhysand. What he says is, Lord Thanatos is having difficulties with his daughter again. Now, Thanatos, that name is one of the princes of hell in Crescent City. We have dialogue with him. Okay, this is really important because, of course, we did a deep dive on this. Thanatos is the God of death. In Greek mythology, he is the God of death, while the. I'm not going to pronounce this correctly, but it's like Erinyes, Erinus. They are his, like, children of sorts. They are called the Furies. Okay.

[Christina]

Fury.

[Emma]

So Thanatos, God of death, he has these Erinus, also known as Furies. They are goddesses of vengeance, particularly for crimes against families or oaths. While they are not directly related as parent and child, like Thanatos and the Furies, they are in all accounts, though basically described as the daughters of Thanatos. Okay, so it seems weird for SJM to use the same name for a character in two different series. I'm not sure if they're one in the same, but, like, it's very odd that that is such an interesting name and the fact that Thanatos is a prince of Hell. And then we have a character named.

[Christina]

Fury, and we don't know Fury's origin. And we know it's something really wild because Danika sent it and they had this pact then that she wouldn't tell anyone. It is huge here. Just even the little sliver of hope.

[Emma]

Because Danika was a bloodhound. Everyone, if you don't remember. So she can sense a person's lineage by smelling them. And Fury made her promise not to say what. Like, what if Fury is like, ugh, what is she?

[Christina]

I think that's what it is. I think this is why this is fun to latch onto because we just are dying for anything about Fury. And Sarah using the name again feels so annoyingly specific for Lord that she could have picked any other name to throw into Acotar. Lord Thanatos. Like, it's so fun. I love this.

[Emma]

I love it so much.

[Christina]

Yes. I think there's a lot of realistic issues with them being one in the same, but also it's fun. It is fun.

[Emma]

It's fun. You can't deny that those are very unique names. It's not like Fred. Yes. Okay. It's not a Henry. No, it's Thanatos. And when you look up the meaning behind the name, that's what's so interesting to me.

[Christina]

Me like the origin difficulties with his.

[Emma]

Daughter and Thanatos daughters are the Furies. Like, come on.

[Christina]

Oh, I love it.

[Emma]

What is that?

[Christina]

I love it. I love it.

[Emma]

Anyways, so that is where we're gonna leave off this episode and next week we'll pick up with the beginning of our final parts of acowar. So yeah, cheers and happy reading, listeners.

[Christina]

Bye bye.

[Emma]

Well, friends, that wraps up another episode of Flight of Fantasy podcast. Don't forget to join our book club community on Instagram and TikTok at flights of Fantasy Podcast where you can share your thoughts, theories and favorite moments with us and fellow listeners. We'd love to hear from you. If you enjoyed today's episode. Please rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your support helps us spread the magic of romantasy to even more book lovers. Until next time, keep dreaming, keep reading and remember, every good story deserves to take flight.

[AM PM Advertiser]

Check engine ABS or maintenance light on. Take the guesswork out of your warning lights with O'Reilly Veriscan. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE Certified Master Technicians. And if you need help, we could recommend a shop for you. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today. Auto Parts.

[Person Struggling with Budgeting]

Think about the last time you had a cancel subscription. There's probably some waiting on hold, some guessing at your password, some mind numbing small talk, and maybe after all that, you still weren't able to cancel it. Good news, it doesn't have to be this way. Thanks to Rocket Money, Rocket Money tracks, manages and can cancel your subscriptions for you. When you connect your accounts, you'll see a complete picture of all your reoccurring subscriptions all in one place. Rocket Money organizes your subscriptions by due date and notifies you when something's coming up so you'll Never be caught off guard when you get charged. If you see a subscription you want to cancel, Rocket Money simplifies the process. Instead of waiting on hold for an hour, you can cancel it right from the app. Rocket Money will even try to get you a refund for the money you spent on subscriptions you forgot about. Stop wasting your time trying to cancel subscriptions the hard way, make your life easier and go to RocketMoney.com cancel. That's RocketMoney.com cancel or download the app from the Apple app or Google Play stores.

[Financial Advisor]

Think about the last time you had to cancel a subscription. There's probably some waiting on hold, some guessing at your password, some mind numbing small talk, and maybe after all that, you still weren't able to cancel it. Good news. It doesn't have to be this way. Thanks to Rocket Money, Rocket Money tracks, manages, and can cancel your subscriptions for you. When you connect your account, you'll see a complete picture of all of your recurring subscriptions all in one place. Rocket Money organizes your subscriptions by due date and notifies you when something is coming up, so you'll never be caught off guard when you get charged. If you see a subscription you want to cancel, Rocket Money simplifies the process. Instead of waiting on hold for an hour, you can cancel it right from the app. Rocket Money will even try to get you a refund for the money you spent on subscriptions you forgot about. Stop wasting time trying to cancel subscriptions the hard way, make your life easier and go to RocketMoney.com cancel. That's RocketMoney.com cancel or download the app from the Apple app or Google Play stores.