Flights of Fantasy Podcast – S6: Ep11 “Conform by Ariel Sullivan, Part 1”

Release Date: April 7, 2026
Hosts: Anna, Kim, Kristina (with notable mentions of Ellen in discussion)

Overview

In this episode, Anna, Kim, and Kristina delve into Ariel Sullivan’s Conform, a dystopian fantasy romance novel. The conversation centers on the book’s world-building, social structure, character analysis, romantic dynamics (including one of the best-executed love triangles in recent memory), and the series’ major themes of conformity, control, and the grey areas of morality. Part 1 focuses on plot set-up, the world’s disturbing social engineering, main character breakdowns, romantic entanglements, and several “dinner from hell” sequences. The hosts sprinkle personal insights and fandom humor throughout, making this a vibrant and nuanced recap for both readers and newcomers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nostalgic Dystopia for Adults

• Conform delivers the high-stakes, oppressive world-building reminiscent of YA dystopian icons (The Hunger Games, Divergent, Uglies) but ages up the themes and protagonists.
  • “It felt so nostalgic...like when a song from middle school or high school pops up and you just get that dopamine rush. Except adult.” —Anna (04:10)
  • The book pivots to adult topics (e.g. forced procreation) rarely seen in earlier dystopian fiction, filling a thematic gap for readers who grew up with YA and now want more mature nuance.

2. World Building: Caste System & Social Engineering

[06:03–15:36]

• History: Post-nuclear holocaust, humanity survives underground, then emerges under a regime (the Illum) obsessed with repopulation and genetic ‘purity’.
• Caste Structure:
  • Elites: Genetically “perfect,” no outward “defects.”
  • Minors: “Minor” genetic flaws (e.g., heterochromia), identified by gray clothing.
  • Majors: “Major” defects, wear blue; perceived as “mutants” or outcasts.
• The Illum: Mysterious, authoritarian, and almost religious in their control, although overtly anti-religion.
  • “If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck—it’s a cult... and it’s giving god.” —Anna (11:17)
  • Control is maintained via physical separation, isolationist policies, and division—“If you constantly pit people against each other they cannot come together and rebel up against you.” —Kim (12:16)
• Mating Contracts: Women are rotated for breeding every five years. If a minor produces a major or minor child, she is demoted. Elite women are protected from demotion—heightening inequity and fear.
• Children’s Removal & Education:
  • At age four, children are taken from parents to the Academy (“the parting”), intensifying trauma and perpetuating control.
  • Academy split by caste, with education focusing on compliance, not knowledge. Testing assesses obedience vs. individuality.

3. Character Breakdowns

Emmaline (Main Character)

[15:36–24:25]

• Refreshed by being a mid-20s protagonist (not the typical naive teen).
  • “It just feels really refreshing...it kind of does add this level of maturity.” —Kim (15:53)
• Works in pre-war art archives; has “defect” of heterochromia (one blue, one brown eye).
• Initially keen to conform due to internalized shame, but thoughtful, curious, and courageous enough to question and challenge societal cruelty.
  • “She isn’t blindly loyal...She does question the authority around her, but in a very thoughtful and intentional way.” —Kim (21:02)
• Key growth arc: From seeking acceptance to seeing the world’s shades of grey.
  • Early: “Elite. I saw a girl who knew nothing...a girl her birth father accepted.” (22:11)
  • Later: “There was no good or bad guy. There were no saviors, just varying shades of morally corrupt people with different lines in the sand.” —Emmaline (22:59)

The Caste System’s Impact (and Defect Logic)

• Society’s emphasis on visible ‘defects’ as justification for oppression.
  • “Her two colored eyes—people act like she’s Hunchback of Notre Dame; it’s not that big a deal.” —Kim (10:18)
  • The deliberate use of outward flaws vs. true genetics: “call them defects is ridiculous.”

The Illum

• “Saviors” who ban religion yet enforce devotion—with a system as dogmatic as any faith.

The Starlings – Rose and Violet

• Degrading, dehumanizing beauty treatments for women (akin to Hunger Games’ prep teams, but more dystopian).
• Rose and Violet’s secret love acts as both a source of info for Emmaline and a central challenge/hope motif:
  • “Attachment itself is a threat...the system is designed to eliminate real bonds.” —Anna (27:17)

The “Parting” and Parental Trauma

[28:00–30:19]

• At age 4, children are forcibly removed—host commentary is deeply emotional.
  • “You just have to have empathy and be human...the grief and the screaming. I was like, this is too real.” —Kim (29:19)
• Trauma is both personal (to mothers and children) and systemic.

4. The Love Triangle: Hal vs. Colin

[30:37–61:17]

Hal (“Team Hal” – Kim)

• Genetically elite, but born to major parents—adopted by elites after parents’ execution.
• Associated with rebellion; first to bond with Emmaline over art and vulnerability.
• The “Moonlight” nickname and scenes (especially the rain scene [36:57–37:33]) highlight emotional and physical intimacy.
• Hal’s arc: Genuine connection or a tool of rebellion manipulation? The “fake”/real tension is heightened by later revelations.
  • “Knowing what we know later, was this even genuine or was this part of something more calculated?” —Kim (36:15)
• Deeply shaped by trauma—“I’d do anything for love.” (39:20)

Colin (“Team Colin” – Anna)

• Youngest member of the Illum; is the emotionally-unavailable, “enforcer” archetype.
• Intense, mysterious, rarely lets his guard down. Darkly charismatic (dreamcast as Henry Cavill).
• Public, calculated protection of Emmaline (e.g., staking his claim in front of her birth parents [47:43]).
• Scenes often orchestrated (flowers, chocolates, sky date), but with undercurrents of yearning and conflicting feelings:
  • “You are unlike everything I have ever known. You’re maddening, consuming...I have a role to play, and yet I spend my time thinking about you.” —Colin (59:52)
• Implied to be playing a deeper game—possibly not loyal to the Illum, with theories of double-agent or Reaper status.

Commentary on the Love Triangle Structure

• One of the best since Infernal Devices; both choices are emotionally compelling.
• “It’s incredibly well done—almost too well done, because I’m leaving the book not knowing whose team I’m on!” —Kim (54:55)
• The “why choose” impulse: the triangle is so balanced, the hosts joke they refused to pick a side afterwards.

5. Family and the Dinner(s) from Hell

[61:21–68:48]

Dinner #1: Emmaline’s Biological Family

• Vincent (biological father): condescending, narcissistic, places the blame for Emmaline’s “defect” on her.
  • “You were a disgrace the moment you opened those hideous eyes. All of my hard work, damned.” —Vincent (65:06)
• Helen (biological mother): broken, traumatized, possible victim of abuse, hinted at internal conflict.
• Gregory (biological brother): protective, warm, the only bright spot in the family dynamic.

Dinner #2: The Elite Dinner Party

• Colin hosts; Emmaline becomes witness to the casual cruelty of the elite, including a public execution.
  • Colin orders the execution because “everything I do is for the greater good.” ([70:13])
  • Hosts debate Colin’s emotional culpability, questioning manipulation, remorse, and the nature of moral compromise.

6. Major Themes and Thematic Quotes

Power, Control, & “Conformity”

• “Prosperity of peace is the cornerstone of our great success. This can only be achieved by eliminating all threats, physical and mental, that cause discord. The illum’s persistent endeavor of eradication of these anomalies protects our way of life. Key word: conformity.” (08:20)
• The system justifies everything, including trauma and murder, for the “greater good” — a callback to real-world totalitarianism and cult psychology.

No Black & White – Moral Ambiguity

• “There was no good or bad guy. There were no saviors, just varying shades of morally corrupt people with different lines in the sand.” —Emmaline (22:59)
• “We all become evil to save the people we love. You have no idea what you would do when confronted with something like this.” —Anna, paraphrasing Nora (78:08)
• The book repeatedly undermines clear definitions of “hero” and “villain” — rebels can be cruel, the authority can be sympathetic, everyone is acting out of what they perceive as necessity.

Agency, Hope vs. Fear, and Defiance

• “In order to have true control and power, you must have duality of fear and hope.” —Tabitha’s reasoning for selecting Emmaline (20:20)
• Emmaline’s arc centers on acting despite enormous personal risk, showing how courage often means creating tiny cracks in a monolithic system.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with timestamps)

• “It’s a cult. And it’s giving superior being. It’s giving god.” —Anna (11:15)
• “You aren’t what I expected. You weren’t planned.” —Hal to Emmaline (60:20)
• “You are unlike everything I’ve ever known. You’re maddening, consuming, unwilling to follow any of their rules. I have a role to play, and yet I spend my time thinking about you.” —Colin (59:52)
• “But if we killed each other endlessly, how would the cycle of misunderstood murder stop? Which side was right? There were good people in the clouds as well as bad. Status alone didn’t determine who should be saved.” —Emmaline’s inner monologue (77:02)
• “No one is all good or all bad. Each person has their breaking point, their line in the sand. Maybe find out Colin’s before you write him off completely.” —Nora (52:09)
• “If you control the youth, you control everyone.” —Anna, on Hal’s origin (33:34)
• “You make me crazy.” —Anna, joking about Colin & Hal’s reaction to Emmaline (44:51)
• “Helen seems beaten down, like an abused animal.” —Anna, on Emmaline’s mother (66:20)

Segment Timestamps Overview

• Worldbuilding / Caste System / The Illum: [05:53–15:36]
• Emmaline Character Analysis: [15:36–24:25], [24:25–30:00] (via family/trauma)
• Love Triangle & Hal/Colin Deep Dive: [30:37–61:17]
• Family Dinners / Character Complexity: [61:21–68:48]
• Theme Synthesis & Foreshadowing: [76:57–end]

Engagement & Tone

• The hosts combine adult reflection with fandom glee (“slut for a rain scene”), tender personal anecdotes, and incisive social commentary.
• They celebrate nuanced character work, admit to emotional whiplash over the triangle (“I just went and read a bunch of why-choose books because I refused to pick a side”), and do not shy from criticizing systems of control and abuse.
• Banter is warm, empathetic, sometimes irreverent, always book-club cozy.

Final Notes & What’s Next

• Next episode: Art history deep-dive (with Anna), exploring the significance behind the chosen artworks; more on the ending twists, epilogue, theories (“Is Colin the Reaper?”), and the unresolved triangle.
• Listeners are encouraged to join the Patreon/bookclub community, and to come back for Part 2.

Summary Created: For readers/listeners who want an engaging, thorough walk-through of the episode’s main content, key takeaways, quotable gems, and emotional highlights—without needing to listen start to finish.