S6 : Ep 4 - ACOSF : Revisited - PART 1

Summary

Flights of Fantasy Podcast

S6 : Ep 4 – A Court of Silver Flames (ACOSF) Revisited – Part 1

Date: February 10, 2026
Hosts: Anna, Kim, Christina
Topic: Deep dive into A Court of Silver Flames (ACOSF) by Sarah J. Maas (first half), with a focus on Nesta's journey, character arcs, lore, fan theories, and bookish banter.

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Episode Overview

In this lively, heartfelt book club episode, Anna, Kim, and Christina revisit A Court of Silver Flames by Sarah J. Maas, exploring the raw emotional depth of Nesta’s character arc and the broader ACOTAR universe. The episode balances serious thematic analysis—especially regarding trauma, healing, and mental health—with classic Flights of Fantasy humor, spicy character banter, and enthusiastic theory-crafting about future series developments.

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Detailed Topics and Discussion Points

1. Setting the Stage: Re-reading ACOSF

• The Hosts’ Personal Connection: ACOSF was the first book the trio read together, during the pandemic under chaotic personal circumstances—recalling recording delays due to ice storms and power outages ([04:14]).
  • Notable moment: Laughing about “living in a tundra” and the “apocalypse vibes.”
• Spoiler Warning: Full spoilers for the entire ACOTAR series from this point forward ([03:48]).

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2. Nesta’s Mental Health Journey

A deep, empathetic unpacking of Nesta’s state at the start of ACOSF.

• Contextualizing Nesta’s Decline:
  • The book opens with Nesta having hit “rock bottom,” self-medicating with drinking, gambling, and sex as escapisms ([04:48]).
  • Family intervention: After a year of giving “time and space,” Feyre and Rhysand hold an intervention, sending Nesta to the House of Wind to train with Cassian ([06:13]).

Key Quotes & Analysis

• On Nesta’s Internalized Trauma:
  • “She could have saved him… It was the King of Hybern’s fault. She knew that. But it was hers too… I hate everything that I am, and I am so, so tired.”
    • Elizabeth Evans reading, [10:46-12:56]
      • Christina: “Such an honest, real depiction of depression. She’s just so tired… exhausted from just being in her own head, just existing.”
      • Anna: “I went back and rewound it three times to listen to her say that… it really sums up the self-loathing; she just doesn’t feel like she deserves to be there.”
• On Nesta’s Upbringing:
  • Discussion of her mother’s pressure and abuse—“My Nesta… you shall wed for conquest”—and the impact of being the focus of family cruelty ([14:01]).
  • Kim: “The way that Nesta’s mother is calling her ‘my Nesta’ feels very possessive and controlling… almost a sinister undertone.”
  • Wolf imagery: “Nesta had become a wolf… but when the time came to put away the wolf, she found it had devoured her too.” ([15:02])

Empathy & Realism in the Narrative

• The hosts praise SJM’s commitment to representing non-linear healing, relapses, and the discomfort of trauma.
  • Anna: “Healing is not a linear process… Nesta’s is really hard to read because it includes relapses.”
  • Kim: “For people who lash out like Nesta when they’re hurt—to see themselves in books, to know it’s okay for your grief to not be comfortable for other people… that’s important."
  • [20:48] Christina and Anna both tear up discussing the experience of seeing oneself in a character like Nesta.

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3. Band of Exiles and Koshchei Lore

Expanding the world-building and theorizing about ACOTAR’s future antagonists.

• The Band of Exiles—Jurian, Lucien, Vassa—get affectionate ribbing over their self-important name ([23:13]).
• Koshchei/Koschei the Deathless:

  • Backstory: The Bone Carver’s brother, confined to the lake by an ancient spell, aiding Briallyn (the bitter, crone-ified ex-queen) in her quest for the Dread Trove items ([25:46]).

  • Theorizing on loose ends: “Vassa hasn’t been called back to the lake for two years; what’s going on?” ([23:53])

  • Lore parallels: Deep dive into the ballet Firebird and Russian folklore, connecting Koschei, the Firebird (Vassa), and the myth of destroying Koschei’s soul-in-a-box ([31:20-32:07]).

    Anna: “Koschei’s soul is in a box in ACOSF. Wow. Where’s the box? Who’s going to find the box? Or princess—maybe Nesta dances the ballet!” ([31:53])

• Shadows Theory:
  • Koschei is repeatedly described as a “shadow,” and Anna/Christina speculate this foreshadows Azriel’s expanded role ([28:41]):

    “His [Koschei’s] shadows had murmured something, a warning to him [Azriel]… his siphons flared. ‘Run,’ Azriel breathed. And the pure terror on his brother’s face…” ([29:04])

  • The hosts propose ACOTAR 6 may have “shadow” in the title, centering Azriel ([30:15-30:22]).

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4. Cassian’s Character Arc & Relationship with Nesta

Exploring Cassian’s insecurities, vulnerabilities, and his dynamic with Nesta.

• Cassian’s Insecurity and Role in the Inner Circle:

  • Feels unworthy as a “bastard born Illyrian” acting as Emissary among High Fae ([33:56]).

    “Aerys and his twisted word games… every time I meet with him, I feel like he’s got the upper hand… Maybe that makes me a stupid brute after all.” —Cassian ([35:15])

• Harsh Words & Reflection:

  • Both Cassian and Nesta wield words as weapons; hosts point out their ability to hurt each other and themselves ([36:15-37:19]).

    Cassian: “Everyone fucking hates you. Is that what you want? … It was too far.”

    • Christina: “If Cassian said that to Elain, she’d crumble. But for Nesta, this is her own narrative—‘I hate myself. Great, so cool.’”

• The Training Arc:

  • Training as catharsis and intimacy; hosts celebrate the tension, humor, and smutty banter ([42:11-43:27]).

    “Is that what those smutty books teach you—that it’s only at night?... It could be anytime. Dawn’s first light, or when I’m bathing, or even after a long, hard day of practice.” —Cassian ([42:51])

    • Anna: “The sexual tension is so obvious, the banter so sharp—it’s foreplay for them.”

• Parallel to Feyre’s Healing:

  Cassian: “Through it all… the training centered me, guided me… You said the other day the breathing helped you. It helps me too. And it helped Feyre.” ([44:12])

  • Hosts reflect on the power of physical activity for mental healing, and Anna jokes, “Endorphins make you happy. Happy people don’t kill their husbands!” ([47:12])
  • Critique of the decision to start Nesta’s training at Windhaven (“Why put a traumatized woman in front of toxic Illyrians?”)—but acknowledgment that it brings her to Emery ([45:02-46:47]).

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5. Smut, Fanservice, and the (Cut) Threesome

• Confirmed but Deleted Scene:
  • The hosts discuss how Sarah J. Maas confirmed that a “filthy” threesome scene (likely Nesta/Cassian/Azriel) was cut to avoid emotional complications ([48:44-50:16]).

    “The first draft of A Court of Silver Flames had a threesome scene… I immediately took it out because I knew I couldn’t face my family…” —Sarah J. Maas ([49:22], paraphrased).

    • The hosts plea for the release of the scene, noting there are fanfics filling the void.
  • Speculation about who was involved, how it would affect canon, and jokes about characters’ sex lives abound.

    “I would love it if Helion was involved. Then when she sees Lucien, she can look at him—‘I fucked your dad.’” —Anna ([51:27])

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6. End-of-Episode Humor and Teasers

• The podcast rounds off with enthusiastic laughs, spicy jokes, and plans for next week’s episode ([51:49-53:36]).
  • Notable running jokes: CrossFit couples, sauna scenarios, “life canon,” and enduring the book wait (“It’s been 84 years…”).
  • Teaser for Part 2: “Sibling dynamics, spring court check-in, mysterious Eris, and the masterminds section.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “We are focusing on Nesta’s healing. This book is about her journey towards self-acceptance and forgiveness… We’re going to be doing a regular mental health check-in with our girl Nesta throughout these episodes.” —Anna ([04:48])
• “Her trauma was so unpalatable to me because it’s so aggressive and intense. But… it’s important for people who lash out… to know you’re not alone, and it’s okay for your grief to not be comfortable for others.” —Kim ([20:48])
• “They [Cassian and Nesta] need this wolf energy back and forth. Can you imagine if Cassian said that to Elain? She’d crumble.” —Christina ([36:26])
• “Through every awful thing, the training centered me… You said the breathing helped you. It helps me too. And it helped Feyre.” —Cassian ([44:12])
• “Is that what those smutty books teach you—that it’s only at night?... It could be anytime: dawn’s first light, or when I’m bathing, or even after a long, hard day of practice.” —Cassian ([42:51])
• “The first draft… had a threesome scene that was so filthy I immediately took it out… I pretty much wrote my own fanfic.” —Sarah J. Maas, as cited by Elizabeth ([49:22])

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------|--------------| | Spoiler warning, series intro | 03:48–04:01 | | Nesta’s mental health & trauma | 04:48–21:32 | | Band of Exiles, Koschei discussion | 23:13–33:00 | | Cassian’s arc and Nesta/Cassian | 33:00–44:53 | | Training, sexual tension, banter | 43:33–48:44 | | Threesome discussion & fandom jokes | 48:44–53:28 | | Episode closing and next week teasers| 53:31–53:54 |

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Summary Tone

The episode maintains a warm, insightful, playful tone, blending sharp humor and fan enthusiasm with thoughtful literary analysis and deep empathy for character trauma. The hosts’ chemistry is infectious, making the deep-dive as entertaining as it is emotionally resonant.

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For Next Time

Stay tuned for deeper dives into sibling relationships, the intrigue of the Spring Court, mysterious Eris, and the much-loved masterminds segment. As always: more banter, more theories, and more spice to come!

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If you missed this episode, this summary highlights the best of Flights of Fantasy’s unique blend of heart, humor, and seriously smart book talk.

Transcript

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[Kim]

With Verbocare Help is always ready before, during and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists, so support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind.

[Anna]

Welcome to Flights of Fantasy, your Romantasy Podcast book club. I'm Anna, joined by my book besties Kim and Christina, and together we're diving into the characters, theories, lore and magic behind all your favorite fantasy romance books. Hi book besties. Welcome back to ACOTAR Revisited, our deep dive into the series that started it all. We are so excited to be here discussing A Court of Silver Flames by Sarah J. Maas. And just a reminder, we will be breaking up each book into multiple episodes so we can really take our time with this incredible story. But before we give our official spoiler warning, we have a few announcements.

[Kim]

Yes we do.

[Christina]

First off, we want to say a big thank you to everyone who has taken the time to rate and review the show. It really does make such a difference and we so appreciate your support. Also, Patreon oh my goodness, what a month on Patreon. If you've read this book, you understand.

[Elizabeth Evans]

The significance of Azriel's bonus chapter and.

[Christina]

We are covering it detail by detail, line by line over on Patreon. That is a part of our SJM series for Tier two. We're so excited about that. Also for Tier two this month you are getting a cauldron chat from yours truly covering the Duskourt. Again, if you've read these books, you understand the importance And I will be covering that in detail for you over on Patreon as well also for tier one. So both tiers will be covering Bridgerton.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Hello Benedict.

[Christina]

We are entering season four. We'll be covering part one of season four, all four episodes over on Patreon. And also you'll be getting a book chat from us this month covering the Wild Card by Stephanie Archer. The Vancouver Storm series has consistently been one of our favorite hockey romance series. So we're very excited to cover this book five in that series by Stephanie Archer. As always, both tiers get our main feed episodes one day early and ad free. And if you are a member of tier two, you get the video of every episode. So come on over and join the party. We would love to have [e-mail] flights of fantasy podcasts. All right, Kim, speaking of Patreon, let's shout out some patrons.

[Kim]

Let's do so. One of the many benefits of being one of our tier two book betches is that you get a special shout out in one of our episodes. So in today's episode we are going to be shouting out Shelby Brown, Jeffra S. And Ashley Amini. Thank you guys so, so much for your support. We love you guys so much.

[Elizabeth Evans]

We do. We love you so much. Thank you.

[Anna]

All right, listeners. All right, listeners, consider this your official spoiler warning for the entire ACOTAR series by Sarah J. Maas Y. So without further ado, let's dive back into Prythian and chat about Nesta.

[Kim]

Oh gosh.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh my gosh, you guys.

[Anna]

Also, I just have to say how exciting this episode is. We're not. Well, so I guess it's not kicking off our sixth season, but this was the first book we ever covered on the podcast together as a podcast.

[Kim]

Yeah, this is actually the first new.

[Anna]

Release we ever read together.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Anna]

That's wild.

[Elizabeth Evans]

What a time it was. Pandemic.

[Anna]

Pandemic. I was in the middle of an ice storm. I had no electricity.

[Kim]

Yes, we had to move the recording because, Anna, we didn't have power for like five days.

[Anna]

It was awful.

[Kim]

Wow.

[Elizabeth Evans]

What a world we lived in.

[Kim]

It was like a truly, truly apocalypse.

[Anna]

I mean, you know what? I'm not saying we hadn't prepared our whole lives for a dystopian moment, but I was living in a tundra.

[Kim]

But we basically were. And oh my gosh, it's so fun to be back all these years later doing this together.

[Anna]

I'm so excited to go on this journey.

[Kim]

Me too.

[Anna]

All right, so with that being said, let's set the stage for the first few parts of these episodes because, y', all, it's rough out there. Nesta is in a bad way. And we're gonna be honest. This is a tough read to begin with. It is like, tough, tough. Sarah really sets the tone in those opening chapters, and right away, you know exactly what the story is here to do. We are focusing on Nesta's healing. This book is about her journey towards self acceptance and forgiveness, about quieting that burning rage that she feels. And it's all consuming and slowly starting to find a sense of peace and appreciation for the people around her. So buckle up because we're going to be doing a regular mental health check in with our girl Nesta throughout these episodes. And we're also going to be breaking down what we honestly consider one of Sarah's crowning achievements when it comes to character arcs.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Absolutely.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That was amazing. You guys said that at the same time.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Absolutely.

[Anna]

All right, Kim, will you kick us off?

[Kim]

I sure will. So we are just going to briefly summarize the setup for this book. As Anna just said, Nesta is in a steep mental health decline. She's hit rock bottom. Okay. Yeah. And the family, the inner circle, knows it. Guys, I want to note, it has been nine months since the events of the winter solstice party in A Court of Frost and Starlight and a full year since the end of Acor. When I realized that, I was like, okay, you know what? This intervention is valid. It's been a year.

[Elizabeth Evans]

A year.

[Kim]

They have tried people. They have been patient. They have given Nest a time and space.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And once I realized that, I was like, you know what? This is valid and I support it.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yes.

[Kim]

Fully agreed. Because Nesta has proceeded to squander away so much money on booze, she is sleeping her way around Velara. She's drunk. Constantly. Yeah. Which has led Feyre and Rhysand to kind of hold an intervention of sorts with Nesta. And the outcome of that intervention is that they are sending her to live at the House of Wind for the foreseeable future. And she has to train with Cassian, who she has barely spoken to since their fight on the bridge in A Court of Frost and Starlight.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Important to note, there is zero slut shaming on this podcast. We are all for women embracing their sexuality and having a grand old time however they want to do it.

[Anna]

That's right.

[Kim]

But just like with anything, if it's not being explored in a healthy and safe manner, it can end up masking Issues and is therefore not productive for anyone. And I think we can all agree that's exactly what Nesta is doing here. Right. She's masking her trauma and her grief.

[Anna]

It's full escapism.

[Kim]

Absolutely. Not to mention she is literally draining her bank account that Rhysand and Feyre have set up for her. She's drinking herself into a stupor almost every night.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And I don't think they're even mad about the money. I think it's what she's spending the money on. I think if Nesta was like, I'm going to go buy some shoes and purses and jewelry and perfume, I think they would be like, well, again, I feel concerned.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Kim]

But it's what she's spending her money on. It's clearly self destructive. It's a cry for help.

[Anna]

Right. Because alcohol, drugs, Alcohol.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

They inhibit you, they change your mental state. And if you're drinking to excess to the point where you're making poor decisions and not being safe, that's a problem.

[Kim]

Right.

[Anna]

And it's all about hiding and trying to not feel well.

[Elizabeth Evans]

And I think. Yeah, that really sets the tone too, to this journey. This time around. This really did feel a lot more like an addiction.

[Anna]

It did.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Intervention. To me, it really felt like we were like this intervention was coming at a time that they were accepting that she was never going to get the help herself. And we have to help her get it because this was just gonna keep going. Nothing would have changed.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Anna]

Yes, you're right.

[Kim]

That's such a good point, Christina, because I do think they were. Feyre even says, like, we waited for you. Like, I wanted to give you time and space. I was hoping that you would come to me eventually and want to talk about what happened. And clearly that's not gonna happen.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And I think they were worried she was gonna die.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah. Oh, totally.

[Anna]

It's kind of funny for Feyre to feel that way because it's like, girl, do you not remember your healing journey?

[Kim]

True.

[Anna]

Like you did not wanna talk about jack shit.

[Elizabeth Evans]

True.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Feyre should have known.

[Anna]

And Rhysand was like, banter with me, play with me.

[Kim]

True.

[Anna]

She's no, she's like, absolutely not. I feel nothing.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, yeah. Disassocial shoe at you instead.

[Kim]

No way.

[Anna]

Anyway, sorry, keep going.

[Kim]

But obviously being sent to the house of Wind, Nesta does not take this well. Okay? She is pissed. She's pissed. What? I mean, guys, we've all seen the show Intervention. Like when has anybody ever been sat down and been like, you know what? You're right. I'm going to self reflect right now and I'm going to take accountability for my actions.

[Anna]

Picking up what you're putting down.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Exactly. It is funny that they were like, we'll give you a choice. It's an ultimatum. You can either go back to the human lands where the people will kill you and your life will be miserable and you'll have no money and everyone will hate you.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Or you can go to the House of Wind. Yeah. Behind door number two. Door number two, you've got the House of Wind.

[Anna]

I was just about to be like.

[Kim]

Door number two was the House of Wind or certain death. But it's your choice.

[Elizabeth Evans]

It's your choice. The House of Wind, let us remind you, is gorgeous and beautiful.

[Anna]

Right.

[Elizabeth Evans]

And has Cassian in it. Or you could go die door number two.

[Anna]

Sexy Illyrian man walking around a house.

[Elizabeth Evans]

In a moonstone palace.

[Kim]

I gotta tell you, these Archeron sisters are not grateful for what is being presented to them. If you showed me, like, you get a sentient house, who's going to give you smutty books and Cassian's going to be there, I'd be like, sign me up.

[Anna]

Do you know what's really funny? This little. Just this little nugget of information about Sarah. When she was writing the book and she was naming the House of Wind, apparently the British publishers or editors were like, I just don't know if you should call it the House of Wind, because breaking wind, it sounds like.

[Kim]

Oh, that's.

[Anna]

She was like, no, that's what I want to call it. And apparently it was more. The British editors were like, well, that's really the way that we describe it here in the uk. And she was like, well, I know what that's. Everyone talks about that.

[Kim]

But the British barely really pushed back. Oh, my God, that's so funny.

[Anna]

She's like, no, we're going to keep it funny.

[Kim]

So we're going to keep it though, and y' all are going to get over it.

[Anna]

Which we did.

[Elizabeth Evans]

If you're a British listener and you. When you first read this, did you think, yes. Wow, that's a. That's a choice.

[Kim]

Or were you okay with the.

[Elizabeth Evans]

With the use of wind? Let us know.

[Kim]

Yeah, yeah, let us know.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I'm very curious now.

[Anna]

Very curious.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Okay. All right. So let's do our first little mental health check in with Nesta. First of many.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

So now that we've really set that stage, let's jump into where she is mentally. The beginning of the start of this book, as we've said, it's not great. And we don't get eased in. We're just dropped right in to that really dark headspace with Nesta. So let's start with this first quote from the first chapter. Quote, she could have saved him. It was the King of Hybern's fault. She knew that. But it was hers too. Just as it was her fault that Elain had been captured by the cauldron after Nesta spied on it with that scrying. Her fault that Hybern had done such terrible things to hunt her and her sister down like a deer. Some days the sheer dread and panic locked Nesta's body up so thoroughly that nothing could get her to breathe. Nothing could stop the awful power from beginning to rise, rise, rise in her. Nothing beyond the music at those taverns, the card games with strangers, the endless bottles of wine, and the sex that made her feel nothing but offered a moment of release amid the roaring inside her. And this is exactly what we just talked about. This trauma logic from Nesta is so hard to read because you see that she does know on a rational level that the king is responsible. But emotionally, she cannot release the blame she put on herself. Like she just can't do it. And then to combat that, we see her turning to drinking and gambling and sex. But like we've said, none of those things are actually about pleasure. They're about, like, silencing this noise and chasing this numbness that's in her. And that's what makes her time at the library different, because she can't chase that numbness there. She's forced to just sit with herself. And so, in one of her very first moments there, Clotho is giving her instructions on how to shelve the books. And as she looks at her, Nesta feels exposed. Without her defenses up or her vices, Clotho can see straight into her darkest fears. And so she looks away and thinks, quote, I am worthless and I am nothing. Nesta nearly said she wasn't sure why the words bubbled up, pressing on her lips to voice them. I hate everything that I am, and I am so, so tired. I am tired of wanting to be anywhere but my own head. And I just. This is such an honest, real depiction of depression. She's just so tired. She's so tired and mentally exhausted from just being in her head, just existing in her own head.

[Kim]

Yeah, absolutely, Christina.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, I love how it's written like this. Instead of trying to be, like, very poetic and flowery, like she's just tired. She's so tired.

[Anna]

Yes. I was listening to this part of the book and I went back and I rewound it three times to listen to her say that. Because I don't. I don't remember that line, the first from my previous rereads. And I was like, holy shit. Yeah. I don't know if hearing it sounds different because Elizabeth Evans is an incredible narrator and she just. The way that she said it really hit me. But it was so hard to listen to Nesta say those lines because it just really sums up very quickly the self loathing and the fact that she just doesn't feel like she deserves to be there, you know?

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's just wonderful. So one of my other favorite quotes from Nesta is when she's having an inner monologue. She's walking us through as a reader through parts of her childhood, the high unrealistic experience expectations that her mother places upon her. This is not the quote itself, but this is kind of setting us up. But her mother says, my Nesta Elain shall wed for love and beauty, but you, my cunning little queen, you shall wed for conquest.

[Elizabeth Evans]

God damn it. This mother, the more we read, the more she's so horrible. Truly, she is a God damn it. Yeah.

[Anna]

So I want you all to remember, listeners, that Feyre was a child when her mother was still alive. Right. Feyre was very young. Elain was very clearly not on her mother's radar. She was pushed to the side. She's just a pretty face. But Nesta received the brutal attention of not just her mother, but also her grandmother. And I forgot this. She says her grandmother beat her hands until they were raw because she screwed up like a dance maneuver during practice.

[Elizabeth Evans]

God, like, what the hell.

[Kim]

Yeah, that's so disgusting.

[Anna]

And all of this inner monologue, she's remembering all of that. And then she remembers the sexual assault that she experienced at Tomas Hands and then her family's fall from grace. And what she says to herself is, so Nesta had become a wolf, Armed herself with invisible teeth and claws and learned to strike faster, deeper, more lethally. Had relished it. But when the time came to put away the wolf, she found it had devoured her too.

[Elizabeth Evans]

So good.

[Kim]

That's powerful.

[Anna]

And I feel like this specific statement, we are going to see this wolf imagery come up throughout the rest of the book. It is a theme for her. And we even saw it beginning back in Acomaf and Acowar. People refer to her with these like, wolf like intensities as wolf like features that her guard is constantly up.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

You know, she's a caged animal for the most part.

[Kim]

Right.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Honestly, I think the caged animal is such a perfect, perfect description. Yeah.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

I had a note when we were going over the outline. I was reading it this morning and I never picked up on it before. But the fact that her mother calls her my Nesta is so interesting to me because I call my twin girls my angels. And for some reason that's like the day they were born, I just called them that. And I've always called them that. And it's obviously a term of endearment. And like, you know, you call your kids like my babies, my. Whatever. But the way that Nesta's mother is calling her my Nesta feels very possessive and controlling. And it's almost like a sinister undertone, like, you're mine, you're my Nesta. She doesn't call Elain or Feyre exactly that at all. It was so odd to me.

[Anna]

That's a really good. Good point, Kim. And I also feel like it preys upon this idea of ownership.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

That we see throughout and we'll get to. When we get to Found Family and the Valkyries. But how all of them have felt like at one point or another they belong to other people or their bodies were not their own. And I feel like that's been a big part of Nesta is since she was little, she's never had a safe space. She's always been the person who's had to, literally, since she was a child, build walls around herself because she has been the prey of her mother. You know, my Nesta. And it's not with love. It's not my angel.

[Kim]

Yeah. It's like, you're mine, you're mine.

[Anna]

And also it's immediately putting her separate from her sisters. We're already starting that divide of you two don't matter. This is my focus.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kim]

Which is so weird behavior for her mother. Like, so fucked up to do that to a child.

[Elizabeth Evans]

And really then models to child Nesta too. She's also still a child at this point. That love is just not a priority. Getting love, receiving love. Nothing about that is modeled anywhere in their household. Anywhere.

[Kim]

God, that's such a good point.

[Anna]

If it's not modeled for you, how can you show it?

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah. Or learn how to receive it or give it. Anything. Yeah.

[Kim]

Right. Exactly.

[Anna]

I feel like Nesta really is the litmus test for readers in terms of feeling empathy. Because she is so hard to like. Because she doesn't receive it. So therefore, she cannot give it. And it really is this her internalized guilt? Is it internalizes in a way that then comes across as selfish? Because in some ways, she acts as if she's the only one who has gone through trauma.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And she's able to look outside the grand scope of herself or the small scope of herself to see what others are also experiencing.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I'm not saying that that's not an invalid way to process grief at times. You know, people sometimes have to live within their own discomfort. The problem is Nessa just doesn't know how to step outside of that. Ever.

[Elizabeth Evans]

No.

[Anna]

Until which we'll get to the Valkyries and her own found family later in the book.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, exactly.

[Anna]

It's a really hard read, but I feel like Sara didn't shy away from it.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

You know, and she really was like, we're gonna sit with this. We're gonna make you uncomfortable.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

For a little bit.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Evans]

And I think that was probably a part of her even choosing to go on this journey with Nesta.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I think she was laying this groundwork.

[Christina]

For us not really to like her books ago.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah. She wanted this to be the full character arc that it is. And for that to work, we have to really not like her at the beginning.

[Anna]

We have to be at rock bottom. And I also love what she's done with this healing journey. You know, she's made it very clear that healing is not a linear process. Right, Right. It's not this easy. Feyre's was different. And Nesta's is really hard to read because it includes her healing journey, includes relapses. It includes bitterness and regression.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

But that's also important because Nesta has never been able to trust others. And in order to really trust someone, you have to fail in front of them and allow them to still love you back and allow you the grace to get back up. And she's never been able to do that. So she has to fail throughout the book in order to know that Cassian will still reach out his hand. Emerie and Gwyn will still reach out their hand. Even her sisters in Rhysand later on reach out their hand.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah. That's so true.

[Kim]

That's so true. And that also is like a caged animal. Yeah. An animal who has been abused. The process to get them to warm up to you, it's a constant reaching out of hand. But then you pull it back and they might bite you. They might bite you a couple times before they realize, like, oh, they're not going to hurt me if I lash out. They're not going to beat me. So, like, it's okay for me to take a step closer and take a.

[Anna]

Step closer the house just leaving out water.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kim]

And then, like, here you go, water. I got her to eat a plate. Look what I did. Look. You know, I will say I had this moment when I was going through the outline this morning and everything you wrote here about, like, sitting with that discomfort that Nesta causes and that her trauma and her grief is so unpalatable. And I had such a light bulb moment with me. Because listeners, if you're new here, I have just always really struggled with Nesta. I just really struggled with her character. I found her very unlikable. And again, I think that is Sarah's point, right. Is that she is unlikable. But her trauma was so unpalatable to me because it's so aggressive and it's so intense. And I just find that really hard to sit with it. It is uncomfortable for me to, like, sit with it. And I am a little ashamed to say that. I think Feyre's trauma was easier for me because it was so passive. And Nessa's is the complete opposite of that. But it made me realize how incredibly important it is that Sarah portrayed this outcome of trauma and how important it is for people who do lash out, like Nesta when they're hurt to see themselves in books and to know that they aren't alone and that it's okay for your grief to not be comfortable for other people. And it's okay to lash out. It was such a growth moment for me to be like. That's why I don't like her, because she makes me uncomfortable. Because she's not just sitting there quietly, painting, internalizing everything.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Right.

[Kim]

And that's easier for me as the reader to be like. Like, she's quiet, so that's fine.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Kim]

You know, but it's like Sarah's like, no, she's gonna roar, she's gonna be loud, she's gonna be uncomfortable. And you're gonna have to sit with it because that's life.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah. And this is a realistic, not linear Kim.

[Anna]

That makes me, like, tear up.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I know. I agree. That's beautiful.

[Anna]

That's like a really beautiful way of saying it.

[Elizabeth Evans]

It is.

[Anna]

Like you said, it's important for others who may feel like they sometimes behave that way. It's always wonderful when you can see a part of your. Sometimes it's scary also. Right. It's wonderful and scary to See yourself reflected on a page and go, oh, I'm not alone.

[Kim]

Right.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah. I definitely, this time around, felt that a lot in the hike, which we'll get to, like, in ways that I did not expect either.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

This reread is really. It's a different journey, for sure.

[Kim]

It really.

[Anna]

It is.

[Kim]

I don't know if it's because we're older or I. I don't know what's changed, but I do. There has definitely been a shift for me where I was like, wow, okay. It's like a mirror, like, looking back, like, okay, you need to, like, really sit with someone of this stuff, because there's a reason Sarah did this. And, I mean, she has talked openly about her own mental health struggles writing this book. And I think that's why it hits really hard.

[Anna]

She said she identifies with Nesta a lot. The most.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

A lot.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Which is so interesting.

[Anna]

That's a scary thing to put on page, truly to say that you identify a lot with her and then put that. And then for readers to read it and receive it. And I still. We still, to this day, think it is a very hard read, no matter how many times you read it. I think we've all discussed that we all felt differently at different points. Our opinion as we read Nesta changes every reread or not our final opinion, but just the way we experience her journey. And it's a scary thing for Sarah to just, like, put out there.

[Kim]

I know.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, totally.

[Anna]

Here I am being vulnerable.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I think that's why it feels like you were saying that way, Kim, is because it's real. I think she really pulled stuff from a real place. And that's why, like, we've said, like, it's not linear, and sometimes all you can do is try. It's not like, okay, it's gonna be perfect. Rainbow, sunshine. Now, because did this one thing, like, no.

[Kim]

Right.

[Anna]

We are hiking up Ramiel, and sometimes we fall all the way back down to the bottom.

[Kim]

Right.

[Anna]

Head first. Like Kim said yesterday. Kim was like, sometimes we go head first down the mountain.

[Kim]

Go first down that cliff. It's rough, but we get back up. We get back up.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I love that Kim, though. Thank you for bringing that. That was beautiful.

[Kim]

I love that. So welcome. Little therapy session for all of us.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Okay, let's move on to the band of exiles. Oh, and Koshe and the human queen and all of that. So many things. Cassian has been tasked with figuring out what's going on with Jurian and Lucien and Vassa. Or as they like to call themselves. The Band of Exiles.

[Anna]

Hilarious.

[Kim]

I love it. I love that they've given themselves a name. I'm like, yeah, sure.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I think it's adorable.

[Kim]

Sorry to be whimsical and fun.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Okay.

[Anna]

Some people wait for others to name them. They're like, let's come up with a club name.

[Kim]

We don't have time for that. We're gonna name ourselves.

[Elizabeth Evans]

What's our secret password? We're like badasses. You know, like, we're exiles.

[Kim]

I just, like, who sat there?

[Anna]

Were they, like, wasted one night? They had to be.

[Kim]

I don't know.

[Anna]

It's just hilarious to me.

[Elizabeth Evans]

In my head. Canon. They were like, okay, well, they're Court of Dreams.

[Kim]

What should we do?

[Elizabeth Evans]

Like, oh, yeah, Band of Exiles.

[Anna]

That is so.

[Kim]

That's Canon. Christina. They were like, they're the Court of Nightmares. We need guys. We need a cool group name like that.

[Elizabeth Evans]

We're Exiles.

[Kim]

So funny. Okay, so for whatever reason, Vassa has not been called back to the lake. She's held prisoner on by Kosher.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I need you guys to know it's been like two years, like, right?

[Kim]

Why? What is that? What do you mean? She can just live somewhere else.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yes.

[Anna]

Almost two years. Because, yeah, she. Who knows how long she was with the father. And it's been a year since the end of the war. So, yeah, like, what the hell?

[Kim]

Like, is Koshay. What is this bargain twiddling?

[Elizabeth Evans]

Granted, the last thing Koshay says on Paige is, tell my Vass I'm waiting for her. So that's what's coming.

[Anna]

I feel like there's, like, weird loopholes.

[Kim]

Agreed.

[Elizabeth Evans]

You know? Yeah.

[Anna]

That Fae. Weird loophole.

[Kim]

I don't know. That feels kind of messy to me.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I don't know. It's Kosher. I feel like maybe he knows what he's doing. Like, he's letting her do. Yeah.

[Kim]

Oh, you think he's, like, toying with her a little bit or something?

[Elizabeth Evans]

Or like she doesn't know she's playing into his hands.

[Kim]

Oh.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Into somehow, you know.

[Kim]

Okay, I like that better. Let's go with that.

[Anna]

That makes sense.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Kim]

But speaking of Koshay, let's chat about the Big Bad in this book.

[Anna]

Book.

[Kim]

So.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, yeah.

[Kim]

I also have to say his pronunciation of his name really irks me. I just. I'm gonna try my best, but just know that my brain is like, no, we don't like that. Or we don't want to. We don't want to say that. But we're gonna try.

[Anna]

We're gonna try.

[Kim]

So, Brie Allen, one of the human queens. She's being a real pain in the ass. I'm gonna shoot you straight. She's being a pain in the ass. She's bitter about the fact that the Cauldron stole her youth when she went in and wanted to be granted immortality. Remember, Nesta goes in. Nesta steals something from the Cauldron. The Cauldron's pissed.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Kim]

So then Briellen's like, super, my turn. Jumps in, turns her into a crone. An old nasty crone. Instead of like this gorgeous Fae youth that she wanted. So Briallyn's like, well, this is Nest's fault. Yeah, this is all Nesta's fault.

[Anna]

I mean, this sucks.

[Kim]

I'm pissed. You know, I went in for a facelift and now I'm an old crone.

[Elizabeth Evans]

And can you imagine? Horrible.

[Kim]

I'm pissed. I'd be unhappy.

[Anna]

I just pictured, you know, like the creepy old Snow White with the tweets.

[Kim]

That's exactly what I pictured.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I picture only because in my house, we watch a lot of Tangled. I picture the beginning of Tangled when she's like, put the flower over the thing. That's another good one.

[Kim]

So creepy. Briallyn seeks out the assistance of Kosche, who is now lending his magic to Briallyn. So that she can collect the trove items and do terrible things.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

With it. Yay. That's fun.

[Elizabeth Evans]

So fun.

[Kim]

So let's just, like, quickly chat about Kosche. He was the bone carver's older brother. Boney C, as we call him.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Bony C. Bony C's back.

[Kim]

That was his big brother. So we can assume he was one of the death gods. Because that's how the bone carver referred to himself and his sister, the Weaver. Rest in peace, guys.

[Anna]

Guys, Rest in peace.

[Kim]

You know, Bony C, I was a little bit fond of the Weaver. Not so much. But she did take down Ianthe in an epic fashion. So for that, I think we must salute Epic.

[Anna]

Agreed.

[Kim]

You know what I mean? We bow down. We bow down because what a fantastic thing she did. Now, Kosher, of course, is no mere sorcerer. He's confined to the lake only due to an ancient spell. Because he was outsmarted once. And everything he does is to free himself. And Cassian says, why was he imprisoned? And Vassa goes, the story is too long to tell. I don't think so. I think y' all are just sitting around. I don't know what else we could be doing.

[Elizabeth Evans]

But Story V. Yeah, we've got time to know It.

[Kim]

We're literally sitting, chatting. So share it. Share it with the class.

[Anna]

I love when fantasy books do that. Like, well, we'll save that story for another day. No, the time is now.

[Elizabeth Evans]

So the time. So you mean the next book. I'm confused.

[Anna]

What.

[Elizabeth Evans]

What's the next day? What do you mean?

[Anna]

And then that person dies and you're just like, guess we'll never know.

[Kim]

Who's to say?

[Elizabeth Evans]

Watch. Bass is going to turn back into a bird permanently before she can tell us.

[Kim]

It can't be. And it's like, let's do some blinking. Oh, guys, let's bring blinking. If you know, you know.

[Anna]

Blinking.

[Elizabeth Evans]

If you know, you know.

[Kim]

Yes. Okay. But this is what she says. She's like, I can't. Too long to tell. Can't possibly talk about that now. Yeah, but know that Brielle and the others sold me to Koshay. Not through their devices, but his. By words he planted in their courts. Whispered on the winds.

[Anna]

Whispered.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Whispered on the winds. I'm really focused on the whispering on the winds. This reread, guys.

[Kim]

Whispered on the winds. That's interesting. Important.

[Anna]

Pin that for next episode.

[Kim]

Pin it.

[Elizabeth Evans]

You know who.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yep.

[Anna]

My girl.

[Kim]

My girl Meryl. My girl Meryl.

[Elizabeth Evans]

You know who whispers on winds?

[Anna]

It's Meryl.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Love her. She's gonna be important. The whispering of the winds. So, yeah, Koshay, though, clearly. This is big bad for book six.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Evans]

This is what we're doing. This is big bad for book six. I would question maybe even for future books. But maybe we're gonna wrap it up tomorrow. I mean, tomorrow tomorrow.

[Anna]

That would be lovely.

[Kim]

Oh, my God.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Imagine.

[Anna]

Wouldn't we imagine? Surprise. I feel like we are. Because he's barely on page. Guys.

[Kim]

Agreed.

[Anna]

I mean, he is a blip. Yeah, right. But we do get this quote. I fear what may happen if he ever gets free of the lake. If he sees this world on the cusp of disaster and knows he could strike and strike. Strike hard and make himself master. It's like pinking in the brain. Like he wants to take over the world.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Sure, sure.

[Anna]

And this is Eris, who I believe says that. And I really think we're obviously setting it up. Right.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Right. The last thing he says on page is, tell my Vass I'm waiting. We're doing something that happens. Also, we know he is very scary and bad. Like, this is worst case scenario, guys. He wants to be the master of everything. Also, we know he can share his powers with Briallyn. He could just be like, okay, well, here's some power for you.

[Kim]

I don't like that.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I don't understand.

[Anna]

I don't love that.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Also, I point out, as we're Talking about Acotar 6, Koshei's connection to shadows, because this doesn't feel accidental, friends.

[Kim]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Evans]

He's literally described as a shadow atop the lake. Okay.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Evans]

And then we see this interaction with his shadows in Asriel. Okay? Quote, they could make out nothing of him. Koshei beyond the shadows of his form. Even Azrael's own shadows kept tucked behind his wings. Koshei laughed, and Asriel stiffened. Laughter like his shadows had murmured something, a warning to him.

[Kim]

Uh oh.

[Elizabeth Evans]

His siphons flared. Run. Asriel breathes. And the pure terror on his brother's face had Cassian spreading his wings. Yeah, I really feel like shadows were talking with the shadows. Something about the shadows, his shadows, Asriel's shadows.

[Anna]

Because clearly the two shadows are talking. Right? Because he gets the warning. He knows to jump in the air before Koshchei grabs Cassian and Asriel grabs Eris. Right. Cause we're at the end of the book.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, right.

[Anna]

I wonder if Asriel's shadows and Koschei's shadows are communicating. Not to say that Asriel's bad or anything like that, but shadows talk, and they're like, hey, no.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I feel like Asriel's shadows sense something so deep in primordial and, like, evil from these shadows, because. So Asriel's shadows tuck behind his wings. And then Koschei laughs, and Asriel's like, oh, fuck. Like something's happening. I'm watching.

[Anna]

Like, his shadows are, like, scared. They're all like, oh, no, Daddy. Daddy, protect us.

[Kim]

Yeah, Daddy.

[Elizabeth Evans]

But for.

[Kim]

For Asriel to be scared is really something.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Cassian said pure terror was on his face.

[Kim]

I don't like that.

[Anna]

I don't love that. Because Asriel doesn't. Nothing phases him.

[Kim]

Yeah. He's like, I literally don't care about anything.

[Elizabeth Evans]

And this leads to our theory that, as we've talked about, Asriel, of course, has to be a big part of ACOTAR 6, or we will all write in the streets.

[Kim]

We will.

[Elizabeth Evans]

And so I really think that shadow, the word shadow, shadows is going to be in the title of ACOTAR6.

[Anna]

I would love that.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I think we're setting that up with Kosche and with Asriel. I think shadows are going to be important in some ways.

[Kim]

Agree.

[Anna]

Tort of shadows and spring, just for Elaine. Sorry.

[Kim]

Just for Elaine.

[Anna]

Oh.

[Elizabeth Evans]

If the name spring and shadow got dropped, everyone would lose their damn minds.

[Anna]

Like, what every l person would be like.

[Elizabeth Evans]

So, yeah, where do we leave off?

[Anna]

Okay, so really quickly, I do want to rattle this off because we have Koshay and we have the Firebird. Right. Vassa's a firebird. This is it's life. Canon is a new term Kim came up with yesterday, AKA world history, but we also call it AKA world history. So there is a real ballet called the Firebird, and it is based off of a Russian folklore. And Kosche is an actual Big Bad, and you have a firebird. And so the story follows this Prince Ivan, who enters, like, this magical garden where Kosche reigns. He's also called the Deathless, which is what he's called in Akisoff as well.

[Kim]

Oh, in the ballet, he's called the Deathless.

[Anna]

Yeah, in the ballet, it's the Deathless. And Ivan captures this firebird, which is a princess.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Like Vassa. And she gives him, like, a magical feather in exchange for her release. There's, like, a whole back and forth. But the end of it is that Ivan destroys Koshchei's soul, which is kept. I believe it's a magical egg.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Okay, but Koshe's soul's kept in a box.

[Anna]

Yes. Koshei's soul is in a box in Akisoff. So I'm like, wow. Oh, where's the box?

[Kim]

Where is it?

[Anna]

Who's the prince that's gonna find the box? Or princess, maybe?

[Elizabeth Evans]

Ooh, wait, but how did they just. How did they just destroy it in the ballet? Gotta get that dance. Cause that's what they need to do to the box.

[Kim]

We need that dance. Ballet dance. We need that ballet dance. That's what they need.

[Anna]

Where's Nesta?

[Kim]

Nesta can dance the ballet.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, my God. That's where the triples are gonna come in.

[Kim]

She's gonna go. That's where the fouettes are gonna go.

[Anna]

Also, Kosche's. One of his big magical powers is. It's very Medusa. But he. He can turn people into stone, so his garden is full of stone creatures. I'm telling you, all of these, like, mythical mythologies all overlap.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I feel like maybe that's gonna translate into him turning people into birds.

[Kim]

Yeah, sure. You know, I could go with that.

[Anna]

And we know that firebirds are similar, I feel like, to phoenixes and that they represent rebirth and stuff.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So I'm curious to see where this goes in ACOTAR 6.

[Christina]

Ooh.

[Kim]

Me too.

[Anna]

Or ACOTAR 7. Who knows? Who's to say? Love me.

[Kim]

We'll be dead before that book comes out.

[Anna]

All right. Christina. Christina. Yeah? It's been 84 years.

[Kim]

Our great, great grandchildren will read it to us on our Graves.

[Elizabeth Evans]

It's been 84 years.

[Anna]

Okay. Christina, will you take us through Cassian and his character arc?

[Christina]

Cassian.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, God, what a joy. Our sweet Cassian. This is what we looked forward to the most of this read. Okay.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Elizabeth Evans]

So, like in the first three books, Akasoff heavily focuses on our leading lady's journey. With Cassian, of course, being pivotal in that. But unlike the first three books, we do get Cassian's POV consistently. What a treat that was. But ultimately, it is still not his story. He is not at the forefront throughout the journey. However, we do still get to explore some very deep rooted, personal, emotional things with Cassian. Mainly this recurring insecurity surrounding Cassian feeling unworthy, not worthy enough. Not worthy enough to be in the same circle as his friends. And most importantly, not worthy enough of Nesta. And we see this really come to the forefront because Rhys has decided to ask Cassian to be his Emissary. He was not busy enough being the Lord of Bloodshed and commanding all the armies. And we need him now as Emissary. And essentially to like, run court, politics, interference along with Aery.

[Kim]

Right? Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Okay. Aerys, who is High Fae and who will eventually be High Lord. While Cassian, to quote himself, is a bastard born Illyrian and he's not High Fae, he does have the pointy ears. He's looked down upon by a lot of the more conservative purist High Fae for being Illyrian. And now by comparison, Nesta was made into High Fae and carries herself with this natural sense of regality. And whether or not Nesta thinks she belongs in that room, she is gonna walk in that room and she's gonna own that room.

[Kim]

Yep.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Because that is how her mother raised her. Yeah, And Cassian is the inverse of that. He was raised being told that he was worthless and less by the Illyrians, who themselves are a group that the High Fae already looked down on. So when Aerys calls him a mongrel or a bastard, it doesn't just insult him. This confirms this narrative that he was taught about himself. And so he internalizes it and it cuts him in this place that was already wounded to start with.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

And so this quote that Cassian says to Feyre really sums it up. He says Aerys and his twisted word games and Politics are an enemy I don't know how to handle. Every time I meet with him, I feel like he's got the upper hand. Like I can only catch up to him. Him. And he sees through my every fumbling attempt at being clever. Maybe that makes me a stupid brute after all.

[Kim]

Oh, my God, Cassian, don't talk about yourself like that.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Jesus, I hate it. Sweet boy.

[Kim]

Oh.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, God. Even worse. It says true sorrow filled his face.

[Kim]

True sorrow? No, Cassian.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Poor Cassian.

[Kim]

Don't talk about yourself like that.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, God. So, okay. Another aspect of Cassian that was interesting to learn about in this book is the theme that he, like Nesta, can be harsh with his words. So like we've said in previous episodes, they both do enjoy giving each other shit and riling each other up and all of that dynamic. But sometimes that does go a little too far. Perfect example. Nesta is talking about Rhys and she says, quote, I hate him. She seethed. Good. He hates you too. Cassian shot back. Everyone fucking hates you. Is that what you want? Because congratulations, it's happened. Okay, now, even though that is a little funny out of context, and at times, I wanted to say it to her too. It was too far. Yeah, the line is a dot to you, Cassian. It is too far. I do also, though, have to say, on the other hand, Cassian has been very clear. This is his line. Do not insult Rhys in front of him.

[Kim]

No, don't.

[Elizabeth Evans]

No, you just don't.

[Kim]

Don't mess with my brother. You don't do that.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, yeah. But again, it is our job to play devil's advocate and be fair here. So if we're gonna call Nesta out on how awful she can be with her words, we have to acknowledge that Cassian can do the same.

[Anna]

Yeah, sure.

[Elizabeth Evans]

But at the end of the day, this dynamic works for them. This is why they're mates. This is why they're made for each other. Because they need this wolf energy back and forth. Like, can you imagine if Cassian that to Elaine?

[Kim]

No.

[Elizabeth Evans]

If, like, everyone hates you, she'd crumble.

[Anna]

To the ground, would crumble into ashes.

[Kim]

She'D take to her bed for weeks. Like it would be. She'd be unable to move forward after that, to cope.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Like, I mean, Nesta was hurt for sure, but it was different. It's just different. You know? It's what they need in a partner.

[Anna]

I like what you said earlier, about how when Cassian hears the things that Era says, it reinforces these ideas that he already has about himself. Right?

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Which is why I think when he says everyone hates you.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's like the same thing. Nest. It enforces everything else that she already believes about herself.

[Kim]

Right.

[Anna]

Oh, man. The two of them together.

[Kim]

She's like, tell me something I don't know. Tell me something.

[Christina]

Right.

[Kim]

I already know that. Yeah.

[Anna]

I know.

[Kim]

Everyone hates me.

[Anna]

I hate myself.

[Kim]

I hate myself. Great. So cool.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Fabulous. Thank you. Next for me, right?

[Kim]

Thank you.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Next.

[Anna]

Well, speaking of Nesta and Cassian. Let's kind of chat about their relationship at the start of this book. Because we go on quite a journey. I've got to say, the mating bond hint are so obvious in this book.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Good God.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Obviously it was. We always believed from the first moment we picked up the book. That we were setting this up in Acomaf and Acowar. But like, on every reread, I'm like, she is really throwing it at us. Like, there it is. Plain as day.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yes.

[Anna]

I want to chat really quickly about their training. We have a whole training section we're going to get to in a second. But this is really pivotal to their relationship development. Because during training is really the only place that Nesta is able to. To quiet her mind and live within her own head. And of course, though it doesn't start out that way. Right. We have. In fact, it's pretty awful.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, it's terrible. Yeah.

[Anna]

And so before one of their very first training sessions. Or actually, it's after the first one. And we're going into like one of the second training sessions. And we're at the Illyrian war camps. Nesta has yet again just sat on the rock. And he says it had cracked an intrinsic piece of him. Some final resistance and shred of hope. That everything they'd endured during the war might have amount to something. That when he spilled his heart to her as he lay dying, that when she covered him with her body and chosen to die alongside him, she chosen him, too. A stupid fucking hope. And one he should have known better than to harbor.

[Elizabeth Evans]

God damn it.

[Kim]

God. See, this is when I get pissed at Nesta. I'm like, God damn it, stop it, Nesta.

[Anna]

Leave him alone.

[Kim]

He's been through enough.

[Elizabeth Evans]

This part, her sitting on that rock. And the Illyrians looking at him. And him being embarrassed. And that made me so mad. This reread, I was like, nesta, look at him. Look what's happening. He's worked so hard for these people to respect him. Don't do this to him.

[Christina]

I know.

[Elizabeth Evans]

That was really rough for me this time. Around. But I also have to say, it was so effective and it was such a good idea that we had Cassian's POV for moments like this, for the fact that we got it and we got this POV from Cassian instead of just Nesta sitting on a rock. Like, that's why this scene worked.

[Anna]

It does.

[Kim]

Yes, true.

[Anna]

It absolutely works better that way. And also because then when she eventually does train, it's like a cathartic release for everybody, right?

[Kim]

Everyone's like, oh, thank God.

[Anna]

Reader too.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yes.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I do love this, though, because, I mean, as bitchy as Nesta is, we've said this in other episodes, when she directs it at people that we all, the readers all hate, we're all like, yes, we love it.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Bitch.

[Anna]

And Devlin, who everybody hates most of all. Cassian and Azriel especially. But Devlin is one of the, like, Illyrian war camp leaders. And he's the one who reluctantly lets the females drop train because. Only because Rhysanda's made it a law, basically.

[Elizabeth Evans]

But then he's also like, oh, but they have to do their chores and cook and clean and do all that stuff before they get here.

[Kim]

Their chores, like, shut the fuck up.

[Anna]

And we have set up in Acowor how awful he is and how terrified he is of Nesta. Like, he can smell that she's different. And so she walks up and he's, like, looking at her and sneering, and he just looks at her with such disdain. And he says, what's your business here? Nesta gave him a secretive smile. Witchcraft. And he, like, stumbles back. Cassidy is like, oh, God, I love this.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Iconic.

[Kim]

This made me giggle. I was like, damn it, Nesta. Okay, see, I'm pissed at you. But, like, you're funny. You're funny sometimes.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I loved it.

[Anna]

And then Devlin's like, if you're bleeding, don't touch any of the weapons.

[Kim]

Yeah, we're gonna bury the swords.

[Anna]

And Cassie's like, that is such an outdated, stupid thing to say. And he's like, we're gonna bury them anyway if she touches them. And I'm just like, oh, my God.

[Kim]

He'S the worst. He's the worst.

[Anna]

I also want to quickly chat about the parallels between Rhysand and Feyre and Cassian and Nesta. There's not that many in terms of how they all develop, but there is a few. And when Amren tells Cassian, keep reaching out a hand because Cassian is so frustrated with Nesta and her not wanting to train. And she's like, just Keep reaching out a hand, keep saying that you're there. Eventually she'll come around.

[Elizabeth Evans]

It's like the one good thing Amren did in this book.

[Anna]

I know. Yeah.

[Kim]

Truly.

[Anna]

It really reminds us of Rhysand when. How he just won't give up on Feyre.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

Even when she just snaps back or when she. Mostly she just ignores him and, like, crawls into bed and he keeps pushing back. He keeps sending her the little, you know.

[Kim]

Notes.

[Anna]

Notes. And the sexy banter, which also this quote that Cassian has, he says about Nesta, her eyes shimmered with temper. Good. Better than the vacant ice.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yes.

[Anna]

Which is just like when Feyre finally lets emotion out and Rhysand is like, I will take your anger. I will take you hating me. It's better. Like the tears and everything is better than you feeling nothing.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Exactly. And we also saw that happen with Elaine when she finally was baking bread and had this. Any sort of emotion. She wasn't just numb, catatonic, sitting in the house of wind. And Rhys was telling Feyre, like, that's how I felt that day when you laughed at the restaurant. You're seeing it with each of the sisters, you know, And I'm sure we'll see it more with Elaine. But coming out of that, like, numbness.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

By someone helping you and saying, play with me, you know.

[Anna]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I do want to end because. Yes, it starts off rough, but then as they start to train together, they really. I'm telling you, the training was very cathartic for the two of them.

[Kim]

It was.

[Anna]

It was a lot of sexual tension very early on.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Fantastic.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Anna]

And so they're training together and obviously Nesta reads all those smutty books and she makes a joke about Cassian having to use his hand a lot at night. And Cassian responds, is that what those smutty books teach you? That it's only at night? It took a heartbeat for the words to settle, and she couldn't stop it. The heat that sprang to her face, her glance at his powerful hands. Even with Asriel now biting his lip to keep from laughing, she couldn't stop herself. Cassian said with a wicked smile, it could be anytime. Dawn's first light, or when I'm bathing, or even after a long, hard day of practice.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Nesta goes.

[Anna]

If she didn't miss the slight emphasis he put on lost hard.

[Kim]

That's right.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Neither did we, girl. Neither did we.

[Kim]

Did we. Oh, wow.

[Anna]

It's so good. They're banter.

[Kim]

They're banter.

[Elizabeth Evans]

It is very funny.

[Kim]

They're like those couples who do, like, crossfit together and then they, like, have sex immediately afterwards. Like, it riles them up and they're like, dripping sweat and they'll, like, run a marathon and then be like, God, that's hot. Let's have sex. I mean, couldn't relate less. I don't like to exercise, but they are definitely that couple that's like.

[Elizabeth Evans]

They are.

[Kim]

We love to, like, hot and sweaty.

[Anna]

And then, like, throw insults at each other.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.

[Anna]

Off the mark.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Kim]

So funny. So funny.

[Elizabeth Evans]

So good.

[Kim]

It's so good. Okay, so speaking of training.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yes.

[Kim]

Obviously training is a huge, huge aspect of this book, like Anna said. And the training in Akasoff is kind of another parallel from Akamaf. We talked about it a lot with Feyre and how training allowed her to channel her grief and rage and anger and kind of release that tension inside of her. And for Nesta, the training is a form of release, for sure, but in a very different way. Feyre, as you know, was very numb at the start of Acomath. And Nesta, on the other hand, feels everything and she can't shut her brain off.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And Cassian understands this. He knows Nesta needs an outlet to be able to channel all the incredibly big feelings that she has. Not to mention the now insane amount of power she possesses ever since coming out of the cauldron.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yes.

[Kim]

I love this quote so much, it made me want to cry. Cassian tells Nesta at one point. What I meant to try to explain is that through it all, through every awful thing, the training centered me, guided me when I had a shit day, when I was spat on or pummeled or shunned, when I led armies and lost good warriors, when Rhys was taken by Amarantha. Through all of that, the training remained. You said the other day the breathing helped you. It helps me too. And it helped Feyre.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, Cassian, I love it.

[Anna]

I love it.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I love this. Because this is one of the first vulnerable moments that he is really trying to connect with her when they get to the training at the House of Wind. Because she's open to it then. But, yeah, this felt like a big moment of progress that she was open to this.

[Kim]

Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys have to wonder, like, why. Why they didn't just have her train at the House of Wind to begin with? Like, why Windhaven?

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah. They were like, you know, where she would thrive in a place where these awful men hate women. And, you know, where she would love to be vulnerable, doing something she's never done before. In front of all of them. In front of those men. That seems, like, perfect for Nesta.

[Anna]

It is kind of wild because it's like, it's not a secret that she was sexually assaulted. Especially by Cassie. And Cassie.

[Christina]

And.

[Anna]

And to, like, put her in front of all of these men who already hate women.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Hate them.

[Anna]

And don't think they are equal at all. Like, they are cavemen, truly. And then they were all like, this is a great idea. We are gonna, like, have her do something that she is not capable of doing yet.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yes.

[Kim]

So it's very bad.

[Anna]

Already at rock bottom.

[Kim]

You know what?

[Elizabeth Evans]

She loves doing things that make her feel uncomfortable in front of people and.

[Kim]

Loves to be embarrassed.

[Anna]

Loves it.

[Kim]

And seem inadequate in front of other people.

[Anna]

Love it.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Loves, loves, loves, loves it.

[Anna]

I mean, it is kind of wild.

[Elizabeth Evans]

The only thing I can think of is that they were trying to kill two birds with one stone. And have the Illyrian women see another female training and, like, trying to get people seeing females training.

[Anna]

So they chose Nesta.

[Elizabeth Evans]

So they chose Nesta for that. Horrible choice.

[Kim]

Perfect mascot.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Please, just any day, just take more. Or someone else up there, just, like, box around the ring. Like, I don't know. I think that's the only thing I can think of is there's so much undercurrent here of trying to get the girls training in Windhaven. It wasn't effective.

[Kim]

No.

[Anna]

I feel like Sarah honestly just needed a little creative writing tool to be like, look, we need to show Nesta how she doesn't want to train. And then she is going to train and it's going to be really beautiful.

[Kim]

Yeah. That's probably what it is.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Honestly. Yeah. Because without that, they also. She would have just never left the House of Wind for, like, a long time.

[Christina]

True.

[Elizabeth Evans]

That's maybe a piece of it. Oh, wait. And then also she needs to go there because she meets Emery. She goes to Emory's shop.

[Kim]

So.

[Elizabeth Evans]

True. That's important.

[Anna]

That's important.

[Kim]

Great point. You're right.

[Anna]

Yes. Good point.

[Elizabeth Evans]

That's why.

[Kim]

That's why she had to meet Emily Cannon.

[Anna]

That's why.

[Kim]

Okay, we've solved it. Sorry. We solved our own question.

[Anna]

But I do love Kim. What you said. The parallel between when Cassian calls upon like, it did help Feyre, too. I know that's a trigger for Nesta. Nesta doesn't like to hear how her perfect sister does everything.

[Kim]

True.

[Anna]

But it is true. Because we talk about that so much in the other book. Like, Cassian is the one that helped Feyre come out of her shell in that regard. And he's doing the same for Nesta.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And it's, you know, like we always say, exercise releases endorphins. Endorphins make you happy.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Happy people don't kill their husbands.

[Kim]

They just don't.

[Anna]

They just don't.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I don't.

[Anna]

So, you know, it's the best medicine.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Science.

[Kim]

It truly is science. That's science is what it is. Endorphins is science. And we are STEM girls.

[Anna]

That's life science. That's life canon.

[Kim]

It's life science. I also do really love the, like, banter and sexual tension moments like we talked about. This is very much almost like foreplay for them.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yes.

[Kim]

So Nesta goes, then do your big, tough male routine. He smirked. All right, you want to mouth off, then I'll show you my big, tough male routine.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Kim]

He slung his shirt off, tied back his hair. No, he didn't. His hair is short. Short?

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yep. Fof canon. Sorry, Hair short.

[Kim]

Fof canon. We only do short hair. He did not tie his hair up. And that's fine. And this was a different sort of torture. To watch him go through the same exercises, only harder, heavier, faster, harder. To watch the muscles of his stomach ripple. Muscles everywhere.

[Anna]

Ripple everywhere.

[Kim]

To watch sweat glisten and then run down his golden body, over his tattoos, along the eight pointed star of their bargain on his spine before sliding into the waist of his pants.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh my God.

[Kim]

Oh. Nesta couldn't tear her eyes away as he completed his exercises. Is panting softly.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Okay, okay. It's 11:00am Honestly. Yeah.

[Kim]

She tried not to wonder if that panting was how he'd sounded last night when he pleasured himself.

[Anna]

Oh my God.

[Kim]

I. Oh.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh my God.

[Anna]

Fucking love this. I just love how horny she is.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Honestly.

[Kim]

She is such a horn dog.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I love it.

[Kim]

I love it. And isn't this when she imagines the threesome? Because I think Azriel's there at that point.

[Anna]

It's one of these times. But yes. And unless Sarah, I'm gonna need that.

[Kim]

Release it.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I'm gonna need it.

[Anna]

Gonna need it.

[Elizabeth Evans]

So, okay, I did some digging yesterday. We talked about this and we as a trio were like, but is this confirmed anywhere? It is. It is.

[Christina]

Woo.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Okay, so people talk on Reddit and a lot of places about how her editor made her take it out. If someone has that quote, I could not find it anywhere. So please, if that exists, send it our way. But what I did find is from a Instagram Live in 2021 with Steph, her friend. She's like ideally inspired, reviews whatever she used to do, lives with her back when she gave us crumbs. And this is a quote from that Instagram life. The first draft of A Court of Silver Flames had a threesome scene in it that was so filthy that I immediately took it out of the book because I knew that I couldn't face my family.

[Kim]

Sarah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

But I also didn't like how it moved some of the emotional threads in different ways and I would have to deal with the repercussions.

[Anna]

That's fine.

[Kim]

I agree with that.

[Elizabeth Evans]

She goes on to then say, I pretty much wrote my own fanfic.

[Anna]

I would kindly ask that you release it for the rest of the fanfic.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Please and thank you.

[Anna]

I will pay for it.

[Kim]

We'll pay for it.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Sure, sure, 100%.

[Kim]

I'll donate to your charity of toys. Like, I will do whatever you want. You just tell us what we need to do.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I will also say as just a psa, I did find in my deep diving of this on Reddit, there is a lot of fanfic people have written of this.

[Kim]

So I've heard that.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, if someone wants to tell us the best ones, we'll jump on that.

[Kim]

Let us know. I was thinking about this though, and I do ultimately feel like the threesome would have just been way too messy with like absolute Asriel, because there's already kind of a awkward triangle happening with Cassian and more in Azriel. And I think she knew, like, I can't tie this knot up with more and Azriel yet.

[Anna]

It'd be real messy.

[Kim]

It'd be too messy. And I do agree with that.

[Elizabeth Evans]

And then also friend of the podcast, Trisha, one of her favorite receipts of why Asriel is going to end up with Gwen, of why would Sarah write a threesome with Azriel with the person she's going to end up with. Sister. That doesn't mean make sense. So we're gonna leave you on that nugget. I mean, now I do agree she didn't put it in the book and she did say here. I didn't like how it moved some of the emotional threads and the repercussions. So maybe that is a clue.

[Anna]

I think it would also f with her and Gwyn if it is Gwen real. If Gwen Real's the thing. Either way, that would really mess up her relationship with Gwyn.

[Elizabeth Evans]

You're so right. So either way, Gwenreal or Elriel, this would have messed up the Repercussions.

[Anna]

So actually it goes twofold. If it's her sister, I feel like that's even like weirder. And that's why, eh, they're not gonna end up together. But with Gwyn, that would then all of a sudden have to be like a discussion.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah.

[Anna]

And she's already like, we've come so far.

[Kim]

Well, I think she was like, this book's already too long. I don't have the page to devote to this situation.

[Elizabeth Evans]

We've got two hours and then we'd have to fix it. What are we doing?

[Kim]

Right, Exactly.

[Anna]

I would love to read it.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Same seas.

[Kim]

I would love to read it. And Sarah, I'd request that you release it, please.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah. Also, I do have to say, it is not confirmed who was in this threesome. She has not said the characters involved. We are assuming because she mentioned the threesome. Some people say maybe it was Helion was involved.

[Kim]

Actually.

[Anna]

Actually, I would love to see that. I wouldn't either.

[Kim]

I would love it.

[Anna]

Because then when she sees Lucian, she can look at Lucia and she was like, I. Your dad.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I fucked your dad.

[Anna]

Somebody's been, Daddy, fucking Daddy, it's me.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, God. Oh, God. Wow.

[Kim]

Wow, that's fantastic.

[Anna]

Oh, God, I need that.

[Kim]

I think that couldn't be a better way to close out the episode. Honestly.

[Anna]

I actually think Cassian would be open to that.

[Kim]

Oh, for sure.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, well, it's very much stated, it is canon that back in their youth the Bat Boys used to have sex in the same room all the time.

[Anna]

Oh, they. Yeah, they had a freaky good old time.

[Kim]

They do go sit in a sauna together naked after.

[Anna]

Who's to say what Else.

[Kim]

So like, who's to say what goes down in there?

[Anna]

A little heated rivalry.

[Kim]

Oh, Anna on a roll today. Oh, gosh.

[Anna]

Finger guns ruined it.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Oh, God. Instead of I'm coming to the cottage, it's like, I'm coming to the cabin.

[Kim]

Okay, who would be Ilya and who would be Shane?

[Anna]

Oh, who would be Ilya? Azriel's Ilia. Oh, right.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Because like I was gonna say, maybe Azriel is.

[Anna]

Because he's so calm and like, the emotions are so tight in here. But Shane isn't. But that's also Shane.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, I know.

[Anna]

See, they're both.

[Elizabeth Evans]

I was gonna say Shane's just a lot quieter.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Elizabeth Evans]

At least at the beginning. So we have to like. You know, you're right, actually pulling stuff out of him.

[Anna]

Ilya is a little bit more feisty. That's Cassian.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Right? Like Cassian he's like, you're right. You know, doing, like, winks and, like, being like.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

I think because of the way Ilya is so intense, it makes me think of Azriel. But you're right. Ilia's a little more playful. And that's Cassian.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yeah, outwardly.

[Kim]

Outwardly playful.

[Anna]

Yeah. And then Shane has the hard convos just, like, says it all. And I feel like that's what. Asriel one day will just sit somebody down and be like, I'm in love with you.

[Kim]

Yeah. So I could see that.

[Anna]

There it is.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Let's discuss that.

[Anna]

Whereas Cassian's like, let's fight and banter.

[Kim]

And then let's fuck.

[Elizabeth Evans]

So that's actually Ilya Tootsie actually. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So fun.

[Kim]

So fun, you guys. So fun, guys.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Yay.

[Anna]

All right, listeners, that is where we are going to wrap up our first episode of A Court of Silver Flames.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

We will be back next week with more discussions surrounding sibling dynamics, a spring court check in, and the mysterious heiress, as well as our favorite part of these episodes, our masterminds section.

[Kim]

Okay, bye, you guys.

[Anna]

Bye.

[Elizabeth Evans]

Happy reading.

[Kim]

Well, friends, that wraps up another episode of Flights of Fantasy podcast. Don't forget to join our book club community on Instagram and TikTok at flights of Fantasy Podcast, where you can share your thoughts, theories, and favorite moments with us and fellow listeners. We'd love to hear from you. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your support helps us spread the magic of romantic fantasy to even more book lovers. Until next time, keep dreaming, keep reading, and remember, every good story deserves to take flight.