S6 : Ep 7 - ACOSF : Revisited - PART 4

Summary

Flights of Fantasy Podcast

S6 : Ep 7 – ACOSF Revisited – PART 4

Release Date: March 3, 2026
Book Discussed: A Court of Silver Flames by Sarah J. Maas
Hosts: Anna, Kim, and Christina

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the deep-dive into Sarah J. Maas’s A Court of Silver Flames (ACOSF), focusing on the growing relationship between Nesta and Cassian, exploring their vulnerability, communication struggles, and the evolution of intimacy (“mate check-in”). The hosts also analyze key character moments, emotional breakdowns, huge plot developments (especially around the made objects and the infamous Feyre baby secret), and dive into fandom’s favorite spicy scenes with their hallmark humor and insight. The episode concludes with the "Mastermind" segment, connecting ACOSF to the overarching Maas multiverse (Throne of Glass, Crescent City), spotlighting Easter eggs and cross-series parallels.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Nesta and Cassian: Relationship Maturity & Communication

(Timestamps: 03:54–10:20)

• Progress in Nesta’s Training: By this stage in the book, Nesta is more committed to physical training and bonding with Emory & Gwyn, showcasing her personal growth.
• Increased Emotional Intimacy: Nesta and Cassian move from surface-level banter to genuine conversations about their families and past traumas.
  • Kim notes the importance of their mutual openness:
    "There's just a natural give and take that we didn't see in the first half of the book." (04:11)
• First Steps into True Vulnerability:
  • Cassian reveals his insecurities after tough meetings with Eris.
  • Nesta responds with empathy, creating a safe environment for Cassian to admit his self-doubt.
  • Quote (Cassian, 06:18):
    “Eris and his twisted word games and politics are an enemy I don’t know how to handle. Every time I meet with him, I feel like he’s got the upper hand… Maybe that makes me a stupid brute after all.”
• Comedic Take on Communication Struggles:
  • Frustration over their repeated “just sex” boundary and reluctance to ask for more.
  • Anna: “It’s like somebody say something for the love of God.” (08:29)
  • Christina summarizes:
    “They don’t want to be the first one to cross it.” (08:38)

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2. Spicy Scenes & Fan-Favorite Moments

(Timestamps: 10:22–18:19)

• Shift in Series Tone:
  • The group reacts to the explicit escalation in Silver Flames compared to earlier books.
    Anna: “Sarah is really dialing up the spicy…” (10:30)
• Iconic Sexy Scenes Discussed:
  • Dry humping by the staircase: Nesta's “insane skills” – both humorous and titillating.
  • Cassian’s reciprocation—staking his “giver” reputation (12:09)
  • Dining table scene:
    • Asriel reluctantly witnesses Nesta seducing Cassian.
    • Quote (Asriel, 15:12):
      “You let her suck your… in the middle of the dining room at a table I am currently using to eat my dinner. I'd say that entitles me to an opinion.”
  • Headboard Scene:
    • Nesta instructs Cassian not to touch her, edges him, then invites him for an explicit encounter:
      • Cassian: “Get on your hands and knees. ... Put your hands on the headboard.”
      • Anna: “Literally. … New kink unlocked.” (17:09)
  • Group’s hilarious interjection referencing “hold on tight, spider monkey” (17:50, Twilight reference)

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3. The Made Blades & Magical Lore

(Timestamps: 18:40–22:18)

• Nesta’s Forged Weapons:
  • Discussion on Nesta imbuing swords with magic.
  • Anna clarifies item distinctions: “They're all pointy, they all kill you. They're stabby things.” (19:13)
  • The lore regarding “Made” items, comparisons to the Trove and Cauldron-forged artifacts, and implications for future plotlines (ACOTAR 6 watch!).
  • Amren’s reaction:
    “At this point, I wouldn’t so much as eat a piece of bread if she toasted it.” (21:03)

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4. The Feyre Baby Secret & Rock Bottom

(Timestamps: 22:19–47:11)

a) Mishandling of Nesta’s Revelation

• Cassian’s Fumbled Disclosure:
  • Cassian breaks the news of Nesta’s powers and the group’s vote on trust; Nesta is devastated at not being trusted by the Inner Circle.
  • “We voted. And it went in your favor because we trust you…” (Narration, 23:28)
  • Anna: “We were almost to the top. … then she just dropkicks off the side…” (23:33)
• Confrontation with Amren:
  • Anna and Christina highlight Amren’s uncharacteristic cruelty:
    Amren: “Was I? I don't think you know what that word means.” (26:36)
  • The hosts question SJM’s choices in dialing up negativity in Rhys and Amren’s behavior.

b) Nesta's Devastating Disclosure to Feyre

• Nesta breaks the baby news to Feyre in a cruel, unrestrained manner:
  • Full scene read for impact.
  • Christina: “This is so hard to read and it is so aggressive. It is the wolf in that cage shredding her opponent apart.” (31:19)
  • Anna: “Nessa’s intention here is to hurt Feyre, to lash out at her...This is her baby’s life. This is not how you deliver this information.” (31:23)

c) The Fallout

• Rhys’s reaction:
  • Orders Cassian to get Nesta out or else: “before I fucking kill her.” (32:01)
• Feyre’s surprisingly calm response:
  • Discussed as somewhat out-of-character and a “cop out” compared to the conflict’s intensity.
    Anna: “You have to match these…For as terrible as Nesta was, there has to be, not consequences, but…intensity.” (34:57)
• Themes of Grief, Guilt, and (Lack of) Consequences:
  • The hosts wish Feyre’s (and especially Rhysand’s) responses were as emotionally aligned as Nesta’s actions.

d) The Hike – Nesta’s Breakdown and Redemption Arc

• Physical and Emotional Rock Bottom: (36:04–47:11)
  • Cassian forces Nesta on a grueling hike; she gives in to despair; the hosts comment on how SJM brilliantly renders Nesta’s struggle with self-worth and self-loathing.
  • Kim:
    “This isn’t just physical exhaustion. This is Nesta actively flirting with not wanting to exist anymore.” (36:04)
  • Quote (Narration, 38:42):
    “Was she worth being counted? She knew the answer, had always known it.”
• Catharsis and Self-Forgiveness:
  • Nesta finally vocalizes her guilt, self-hatred, and desire for change.
  • Cassian’s comfort, emphasizing healing, not “fixing”:
    “You don’t need to become some impossible ideal…There’s nothing broken to fix.” (46:15)
  • Hosts reflect personally on the powerful depiction of negative self-talk & forgiving oneself, especially in roles as mothers.
  • Christina:
    “You don’t have to be some impossible ideal…There’s nothing, like, to fix.” (43:43)

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5. Mastermind: Maasverse Parallels & Theories

(Timestamps: 47:47–58:54)

Spoiler Warning for ACOTAR, Throne of Glass, Crescent City

a) Cassian x Rowan/Aelin Parallel

• Kim: “He says: I see you, I see every part of you and I am not afraid…Exactly the sentiment Cassian was portraying at the lake.” (49:31)

b) Daglan = Asteri

• Direct canon from CC3, connecting ancient villains across series.
  Kim: “The Daglan are the Asteri...They drank the magic of the land like wine, which is literally what the Asteri do in Crescent City.” (49:49)

c) Pegasi Lore: ACOTAR ↔ Crescent City

• Analysis of the Pegasi’s disappearance and resurgence post-CC3; possible Day Court/Helion connection through lineage or magical affinity.

d) Gwydion / Star Sword

• In-universe explanation that Gwydion and Star Sword are one, with roots in both the ACOTAR and Crescent City history.

e) Illyrians as Prototypes for Midgard Angels

• “Illyrians, the prototypes, are the Angels in Midgard…Traitors to their creators, joining the Fae to overthrow my brothers and sisters.” (49:49)

f) Torture Chambers Parallels

• Similarities between the Night Court’s dungeon and Bryce’s holding cell in CC3, hinting at direct worldbuilding crossovers.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Time | Speaker | Quote / Context | |----------|-------------|-----------------| |05:13 | Kim (Cassian quote) | “Your power is a song. And one I’ve waited a very, very long time to hear, Nesta.” | |15:12 | Asriel | “You let her suck your… in the middle of the dining room at a table I am currently using to eat my dinner. I'd say that entitles me to an opinion.” | |17:08 | Cassian | “Get on your hands and knees…Put your hands on the headboard.” | |21:03 | Amren | “…At this point, I wouldn’t so much as eat a piece of bread if she toasted it.” | |31:19 | Christina | “This is so hard to read and it is so aggressive. It is the wolf in that cage shredding her opponent apart.” | |38:42 | Narration | “Was she worth being counted? She knew the answer, had always known it.” | |46:15 | Cassian | “There’s nothing broken to fix. You are helping yourself. Healing the parts of you that hurt too much and perhaps hurt others too.” |

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Additional Highlights

• Emotional Honesty: The hosts’ vulnerability in relating Nesta’s journey to their own struggles with motherhood, guilt, and forgiveness adds an affecting and relatable layer.
• Humor & Banter: From “new kink unlocked” and “hold on tight, spider monkey” to the running joke about Amren’s age, the episode maintains the show’s witty, irreverent tone.
• Meta Commentary: Frequent meta-remarks on SJM’s narrative choices, pacing, and impact of POV (especially concerning Amren and Rhysand’s depiction).

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Episode Timestamps Guide

| Segment | Topic | Time | |---------|-------|------| | Spoiler warning, recap | Opening | 03:08 | | Nesta & Cassian mate check-in | Relationship focus | 03:54–10:20 | | Spicy scenes | Banter & sex positivity | 10:22–18:19 | | Made weapons & lore | Plot development | 18:40–22:18 | | Feyre baby secret, Inner Circle conflict | Emotional core | 22:19–36:03 | | The Hike & Nesta’s breakdown | Catharsis | 36:04–47:11 | | Mastermind (Maasverse theories) | Connections/Easter eggs | 47:47–58:54 | | Wrap up | Closing | 58:54–59:04 |

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Conclusion

This episode explores the emotional and romantic crescendo of A Court of Silver Flames, balancing deep literary analysis, unfiltered emotional reactions, and classic Flights of Fantasy humor. With spicy scene breakdowns, thematic deep-dives on trauma and healing, and extensive theorizing about the Maasverse, it’s an essential listen for both first-time readers and long-time fans seeking to unpack every twist of the book—and the greater SJM universe.

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Next week: The journey continues with Nesta & Cassian’s trip to the prison, the harp, and the Winter Solstice Ball—plus more Mastermind connections!

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Transcript

[Anna]

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[Kim]

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[Anna]

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[Kim]

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[Anna]

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[Kim]

Cause the weekend is coming up and

[Anna]

it's chock full of social obligations that are ready to fill that void.

[Kim]

Oh boy, will they dad. It feels good to worry less. It feels good to Geico. Welcome to Flights of Fantasy, your Romantasy podcast book club. I'm Anna, joined by my book besties Kim and Christina, and together we're diving into the characters, theories, lore and magic behind all your favorite fantasy romance books. Hi book besties. Welcome back to ACOTAR Revisited, our deep dive into the series that started it all. We are so excited to be here discussing A Court of Silver Flames by Sarah J. Mass. And just a reminder, we will be breaking up each book into multiple episodes so we can really take our time with this incredible story. But before we give our official spoiler warning, we have a few announcements. Christina yes, it is a very exciting

[Christina]

month over on Patreon. Quick reminder of what we've got going on over there in our SJM series. This month we are covering the question is Gwen a light singer? We are deep diving that theory this month. Also for both tiers, our Bridgerton Season 4 Part 2 video episode. We will also be bringing you chapter chats for Conform by Arielle Sullivan. Oh my gosh, we had so much fun reading this book. It is fun. It is amazing. It is dystopian perfection. The love triangle. Oh my God, we had the best time reading this and we can't wait to bring you chapter chats on it. So be sure to check those out. And if you haven't already read Conform Buddy, read it with us along with our chapter chat. And last but not least, Kim will be bringing us a recent five Star Reads written review. We have so much fun stuff going on over on Patreon and all of our back catalog available as well. So come join the family and the party [e-mail] Flights of Fantasy podcast. Okay Kim, let's do some shout outs.

[Anna]

Yes, let's do so one of the many benefits of what being one of our Tier two book bitches is that you get a special shout out in one of our episodes. So in this episode we are shouting out Rachel W. Morrison, Lynn and Chandler Lucas. Thank you guys so much for supporting us.

[Christina]

Thank you guys.

[Anna]

We love you.

[Christina]

Thank you. We so so so appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Anna]

Yes. Okay.

[Kim]

All right, listeners, consider this your official spoiler warning for the entire ACOTAR series by Sarah J. Maas. Also, at the end of this episode we will have our Mastermind section where we will take a look at all of Sarah's series as a whole and draw upon parallels and theorize. But don't you worry, that's at the very end of the episode and we will give an additional spoiler warning before diving in. So without further ado, let's get back to Prythian with Nesta. Yes, and just a reminder, we left off last week with a creepy little field trip to the Bag of Orid where Nesta fights off a kelpie. We also talked about found family and did a little mental health check in. So today we're actually gonna do a little mate check in with Nesta and Cassie.

[Christina]

Yes. Oh God.

[Kim]

So by the time that we entered the middle portion of this book, Nesta is well into her training. She is becoming closer to Emory and Gwyn. She's by all intents and purposes doing pretty well for Nesta.

[Christina]

Absolutely leaps and bounds, right?

[Kim]

And I feel like that translates into how she and Cassie and behave towards one another. They, you know, still have their playful banter, but there's also a sense of ease between them. Nesta's walls aren't constantly up. She's able to let Cassian in more. They have conversations about her family, about dynamics in which she grew up. Cassian shares more about his upbringing in the Illyrian war camps. There's just a natural give and take that we didn't see in the first half of the book. And probably what has the most to do with this are these two horned dogs finally, finally act upon their built up sexual tension. But before we get to those spicy scenes, we want to share a couple of our favorite quotes and moments from the first half of this book.

[Christina]

Okay, fine. We can wait on the sex. Fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. We can wait.

[Kim]

We can. We can.

[Anna]

Fine.

[Kim]

It's just. It's a little edging, you know? Just gotta get there, Anna.

[Anna]

And the edge.

[Christina]

Always takes an opportunity to bring that up.

[Kim]

We'll get there.

[Anna]

God.

[Christina]

Okay. Okay.

[Anna]

Get there. It's anticipation.

[Kim]

All right. So this quote I love. It's Cassian. And he's talking to Nesta. She's giving him that withering look that only Nesta can give. That looks like, you know, she could just flay armies with one single look. And he says, the first time I saw that look on your face. You were still human. Still human. And I nearly went to my knees before you. His breath caressed the shell of her ear. And she couldn't stop her eyes from fluttering shut. His smile brushed against her temple. Your power is a song. And one I've waited a very, very long time to hear. Nesta.

[Christina]

Oh, my God, mate. It's so good.

[Kim]

Your power is a song also.

[Christina]

I've waited very, very long time to hear. Nesta.

[Kim]

I mean, just reinforcing this idea that the mating bond is strong with these two.

[Anna]

Yes. And I love like power is a song and Nesta loves music. Yes. So beautiful.

[Christina]

And I love him talking about how when he saw that look on her face when she was still human. He almost went to his knees before her. It's just so beautif.

[Kim]

I love it. So another really sweet moment between them is just showcasing how they're able to be a little bit more vulnerable with each other. And it's actually at the dining room table scene. Which we'll get to in a little bit. But it's before the sexy times happen. And Cassian has just gotten back from the spring court. And Nesta notes that he is not himself. That he seems depressed, he seems withdrawn. And she prize as she pushes him to talk about it. And what he says is Eris. And his twisted word games and politics are an enemy I don't know how to handle. Every time I meet with him, I feel like he's got the upper hand. Like I can only catch up to him. And he sees through my every fumbling attempt at being clever. Maybe that makes me a stupid brute after all. And it says true sorrow filled his face. And enough self loathing that Nesta rose from her seat. And then she walks towards him.

[Anna]

Cassian.

[Christina]

I know.

[Kim]

But it's this beautiful moment between the two of them. Because we have seen him go to the spring court and meet with Aerys. And Every time he meets with him, he has his guard up, he has his walls up. He's not Nesta in how Nesta fights battles. But there's that sense of self doubt, that insecurity that he is not enough. But he opens up to Nesta in this moment, and it's almost like it's a test. Like, he's like, what are you gonna say? Are you gonna bite my head off? Are you gonna roll your eyes? And she doesn't. She walks over to him and. Well, she sits in his lap.

[Christina]

Well. And she does.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Yeah. And he's like. You know, he does question the motives. And she's like, shut up. Shut up. Like, just.

[Christina]

Just let me go down on you, please.

[Kim]

I do want to say, though, there is something that I picked up more this reread than I had in previous rereads. And that's the miscommunication between the two of them in regards to where they stand with sex.

[Christina]

Oh, God.

[Kim]

And, like, their relationship. Maybe I just ignored it or I don't know. But it was so big and prominent in this book.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Kim]

The amount of times that she says just sex, and he's like, okay, just sex. But then they both do it. She wants him to stay. He doesn't offer to stay. He wants to stay, but she doesn't ask him to stay. Like, it's both of them refusing to own up to for sure.

[Christina]

I wish she would want me to cuddle. I wish he would cuddle.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's like somebody say something for the love of God.

[Kim]

It's like that last vulnerability line they haven't. They're not willing to cross until.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Kim]

We'll get to it in later episodes.

[Christina]

They don't want to be the first one to cross it.

[Kim]

Exactly. Because it's a big. To be turned down in that way.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Anna]

They already feel like shame, like they're not good enough. And they've broken so many barriers with each other. But I think this was the barrier that they were like, I can't have him or her hurt me in this way because that's too much.

[Kim]

Right, Right.

[Christina]

And I think for Cassian, there's a lot of weight to accepting that if he says this isn't just sex, what he's saying is their mates, because that's what their sex is. That's what their emotion and their. Their connection is. And she's not ready for that, clearly.

[Kim]

No.

[Christina]

Yeah. And he will take that as she's against him, not against the mating bond.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

Yes, exactly.

[Anna]

Absolutely.

[Kim]

But I do love this little. It felt so high school. But it's like later in the book, it's like, you know, around page 430 or something. And she says, was a sex not good for you? And he's like, well, why would you ask that? And Nesta's throat bobbed. She was fuck. Was she really that unsure of him? Is this Cassian pov? And she's like, well, you left quickly and didn't seek me out again. And I just worried you didn't enjoy it as much as I did.

[Anna]

And it's so hot.

[Kim]

His hands braced on either side of her and he leaned in to whisper in her ear, breathing in her scent. I enjoyed myself too much. I've thought about it for days and days.

[Anna]

Yes. Yeah, you did. Okay.

[Christina]

Okay. Okay.

[Kim]

I just wanted to check.

[Christina]

Honestly, I'm very happy this interaction happened.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

The growth.

[Christina]

For Nesta here to actually say that is big. Also it needed to be said. And it's. It's, you know, Cassian, we love him, but sometimes he's just such a guy.

[Anna]

He's such a dumb, dumb sometimes.

[Christina]

And it's like, why would she not take that as you didn't enjoy it, you left and then you didn't come back for days.

[Anna]

Right. Truly.

[Christina]

What was she supposed to think?

[Kim]

All right.

[Anna]

Okay. So speaking of the sexy times.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Anna]

Let's chat about some of our favorite spicy scenes in this book.

[Christina]

There's so many.

[Anna]

I do have to say, I remember us all reading this for the first time. And I was a little bit ahead of you guys. And I was like, guys, Sarah is really dialing up the spicy Nice.

[Christina]

In this book.

[Anna]

Like, wow.

[Christina]

It really felt like a different type of book. Wow. Than the first three.

[Anna]

I didn't hate it.

[Christina]

It felt like a shift.

[Anna]

And I was into it. I was like, okay.

[Christina]

On board.

[Anna]

Okay. So obviously the scene where they're outside the staircase and Nesta has these insane dry humping skills because she's making this 500 plus year old Illyrian warrior come in his pants in like 30 seconds.

[Christina]

I was like, oh God.

[Anna]

Wow, Nesta. That is some skills.

[Kim]

Listen, that middle school grinding, that really paid off.

[Christina]

Yeah. She was freak dancing at dances. For sure.

[Anna]

She was freak dancing to usher in the middle school gym. For sure. For sure. Yes. I love. She like hops off of him and she's like a bit quick off the mark.

[Christina]

Oh my God. And then in that moment you're like, Nesta, oh my God. Yeah.

[Anna]

At first I was like, this is so mean. Oh my God. But now, now that you, like, know them.

[Kim]

You're just like, God damn, they get off on this shit.

[Anna]

Like, they. Oh, they love it. Yeah, they love it. But then Cassian has to return the favor because he's like, oh, no, no, this cannot stand. We cannot be having this.

[Christina]

No, no, no.

[Anna]

So he literally says to Azrael, turn a blind eye, chaperone. Azriel's like, God damn it.

[Christina]

I'm obsessed with this interaction.

[Kim]

You just see Asriel being like, oh, God, I'm just trying to drink my coffee.

[Anna]

Okay, Okay. I hate this.

[Kim]

Why do I have to be the chaperone? Yeah.

[Anna]

He's like, mind speaking to Rhys? Like, yeah, thanks a lot.

[Christina]

This is a lot.

[Kim]

I can't wait for Azriel to return the favor.

[Anna]

Yes. God, give it to us.

[Christina]

Oh, yeah, okay, Sorry.

[Kim]

Keep going.

[Anna]

So Cassian goes into Nesta's room and she's like, what are you doing? And he's like, I'm here to return the favor, basically. Because he's like, yeah, this opinion of me cannot stand. Like, we must fix this.

[Kim]

I am a giver.

[Christina]

I have a reputation to uphold.

[Anna]

That's right. Exactly. So it says, his eyes dipped again. And when he saw her nipples hard against the silk of her nightgown. Kid, you're laughing. I have kids. It's fine. Guys, I've been watching Keated Rivalry. There's just. I'm really riled up. There's a lot going on. His entire being seemed to focus on it. On her. All 500 years of being a trained warrior, an apex predator, all of it narrowing on her. I love that. I did forget that Sarah writes that Cassian has purring sounds coming out of his chest. I don't like that. I'm gonna know what that means.

[Christina]

I don't like it. It's like a rumble.

[Anna]

It's like, yeah, but it's not. It's a purring. And I'm, like, kidding. Like, I can't use growling again.

[Kim]

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[Anna]

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[Kim]

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[Anna]

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[Kim]

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[Kim]

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[Christina]

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[Anna]

Venmo stash terms and exclusions apply at venmo.me stash terms max 100 cash back per month. This quote is both hilarious and incredible. And it says watching Nesta climax had been as close to a religious experience as Cassian had ever had.

[Kim]

Take me to church, Cassian.

[Anna]

Take me to church, Daddy. Oh my God.

[Christina]

I love this line. It's so well done. I love it.

[Anna]

I love that. But you know what we love even more is the dining table scene.

[Christina]

Oh, let's go to the dining table.

[Anna]

Let's go to the dining table.

[Christina]

So Nesta like very much takes charge in this scene. And she seductively walks up to Cassian. He's sitting there at the table. And then she asks him how he likes it. She says, how do you like it? Gentle. He shakes his head and she runs her nails along, along him. And he freaks out. In a good way. Okay. And then she just goes, oh, I see. See?

[Anna]

Of course he doesn't like it gentle. It's Cassie and Nesta. They want to attack each other.

[Christina]

But the best part of this dining table scene though is Asriel shows up. Yeah, Asriel, who is, let's remember, Spymaster. This whole thing is. He's undetectable. Yeah. And Cassian notes a warning from someone who knew how to remain silent.

[Anna]

I just love that he's like, stop. Clomp clop.

[Christina]

Knock knock.

[Anna]

Shoot. I tripped over myself. You know how clumsy I am, you guys. So sorry about that.

[Christina]

Oh God.

[Anna]

Okay, but this quote is the ever.

[Christina]

Okay. Aziel says, don't show your hand all at once. Cass, save something for later. Busy body as responds, you let her suck your. In the middle of the dining room at a table I am currently using to eat my dinner. I'd say that entitles me to an opinion. Cassian laughs. And then he just says, fair enough.

[Kim]

Fair.

[Anna]

I'm obsessed with this.

[Kim]

I love it so much.

[Anna]

And honestly, Ezreal has a point. You know what I mean?

[Christina]

He does?

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

All right. Now, Anna, take us to church. There's our favorite scene.

[Anna]

Guys, take us. Anna.

[Kim]

That's like realigned my atoms when I read this.

[Anna]

Uh huh. Yep. First time I read this book, this was the only thing I remembered.

[Kim]

This is the headboard scene. And let me tell you something. Sarah said, hold my beer. You don't know what's coming.

[Anna]

You don't know.

[Christina]

You don't know what I'm capable of.

[Anna]

That's right. Honestly, I was like, damn, girl.

[Kim]

Okay, let me tell you. We were in the middle of a snowstorm in Houston. Power was out for almost a week and we had to find ways to keep warm. And I Read this book. And I was like, benjamin.

[Anna]

Benjamin, to the bedroom. Let's go. Oh, my God. We had to find ways to keep warm.

[Kim]

It was the Oregon Trail.

[Christina]

Wow.

[Anna]

Okay.

[Kim]

All right. So let's set the scene. Cassie and Nesta. They're in a room.

[Christina]

Yeah, they are.

[Anna]

As opposed to. Listen.

[Kim]

The dining room.

[Anna]

The sky. The sky.

[Kim]

Listen. There's lots of places.

[Christina]

Bedroom. They're in a bedroom.

[Kim]

But Nesta is like, you can't touch me. You have to just watch.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And so it is a. It is an edging for Cassian.

[Anna]

It is.

[Kim]

And she's like, touching herself. He's like, show me what you do when you're in bed. We are.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Kim]

It's getting hot.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

And then she's like, unleash, like, let's go. You can touch me now. Love it. They go at it. We're going in for round two. He flips her around and he says, get on your hands and knees. He ordered, his voice so low she could barely understand him. Nesta did as he bade. Baring herself. He snarled in satisfaction. Beautiful. She whimpered a bit, because beneath the praise, pure lust simmered. He growled, put your hands on the headboard.

[Anna]

Literally.

[Kim]

He said that I was like, new kink unlock. Like, tell me. Yes. Tell me what to do.

[Anna]

Hands are going on. The headline lead me when I in the mood to be led. And we are in the mood.

[Christina]

This after. Get on your hands and knees. Like, my good God.

[Kim]

This is when I was like. I think I like that.

[Anna]

I am feeling. What is this feeling? What is this feeling?

[Kim]

So then Cassian. Cassian rose behind her, gripping her hips. He knocked a knee against each of her own. Spreading her legs wider. Callous fingertips brushed down the length of her spine, over the tattoo there, the ink binding them. He leaned in to whisper in her ear.

[Anna]

Hold on tight, spider monkey.

[Christina]

Kimberlyn, this is a sexy moment.

[Anna]

I cannot hear the phrase hold on tight without hearing spider monkey. Okay. Blame Robert Pattinson.

[Kim]

Hold on tight, spider monkey.

[Christina]

Damn it, Kim.

[Anna]

I'm sorry, but I had to do it. I did my brain. So now it's in your brain?

[Christina]

Why, thank you.

[Kim]

That headboard scene just really changed the fandom, let me tell you.

[Anna]

It really did. It actually really did. And we thank Sarah for that.

[Kim]

We do.

[Anna]

We really do.

[Kim]

It's up there with the Hewn City and Feyre grinding on three sands.

[Christina]

Imagine that scene if it were an adult book. Yeah.

[Kim]

Oh, the possibilities are endless.

[Anna]

I want to know what that version is.

[Kim]

I would like to read it, please.

[Anna]

Same Sarah.

[Kim]

Okay. So, moving on, we're gonna jump now into one of the harder parts of the book.

[Anna]

Plummet straight down.

[Christina]

Yeah. No good transition.

[Kim]

No, not really. So, Nesta telling Feyre about the baby and the hike. So, before we get there, though, we do have some information for the blacksmith delivers to Rhysand and the inner circle. And this is kind of the catalyst for what's to come. Now, remember, Cassian had brought Nesta to a blacksmith, so she could understand all that went into crafting the weapons that she would then start training with. And after watching for a while, Nesta was allowed to try hammering the metal herself. She worked on three items, specifically. A short sword, a blade, and a great sword. How are they different? I don't know. I don't care. Doesn't matter.

[Anna]

I don't know. Those all sound the same to me.

[Kim]

But sure, they're all pointy, they all kill you.

[Anna]

They're stabby things.

[Kim]

Stabby things. Okay, well, it turns out that because Nesta is, quote, made, she accidentally imbued those three items with some of her magic. The blacksmith freaks out, returns the items to Rhysand, saying they are cursed. Now, everyone is trying to decide what to do with them, so let's quickly run through what we know about made items based on the knowledge shared in this book. So the only known main items so far that we've discussed are the Trove, which we already discussed in an earlier episode, but also swords. There are Gwydion and its sister sword, Truth Teller, which is owned by Azrael. Gwydion, though, has been missing for 15,000 years. Pin that for Mastermind. Narbonne was another Maid sword, which, according to Amaran, Amarantha found and destroyed while Rhysand was under the mountain. Amren says that Amarantha chucked it into the sea.

[Christina]

Yep.

[Kim]

Now, how that. What would possibly destroy a maidsword, I don't know.

[Christina]

Narvin's coming back. Friends.

[Kim]

Show me the body.

[Anna]

Show me the body. Show me the sword. You can't. It's alive.

[Kim]

So, two important distinctions between the Trove and the Maid swords. The Trove was forged by the Cauldron itself, whereas Truth Teller and the other swords were created when a high priestess named Oleanna dipped them into the Cauldron during their forging. Now, Nesta, because she stole some of the Cauldron's powers, is technically made herself. Hence why she was able to imbue the swords with magic. And they are now similar to the swords that were created thousands of years ago. This is just some receipts. Nesta created a new Magic sword? Yes. Amaryn said only the great powers could do that. Gwydion was given its powers when the High Priestess Oleanna dipped it into the Cauldron during its crafting. And then she follows up with the dread. Trove was forged by the Cauldron. Nesta possesses the Cauldron's power, so anything she craft and imbues with her power becomes a new trove. At this point, I wouldn't so much as eat a piece of bread if she toasted it.

[Anna]

Amren, you're being dramatic.

[Kim]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

[Anna]

That's unnecessary. Like, she can't control any of this.

[Kim]

And this is clearly ACOTAR 6 watch. Right? We are setting things up, I think, with some of these swords.

[Anna]

Yep.

[Christina]

I mean, the fact that she made a new trove, this is. This is ridiculously.

[Anna]

Yes, absolutely. All right, okay, so here we go. Let's get to Cassian telling Nesta. So the way this whole emergency meeting of the inner circle wraps up is that Amren and Rhysand believe Nesta should not be informed about this new newfound ability to her power. Azriel and Cassian strongly disagree, and Feyre will be the deciding vote. And thankfully, she votes in favor of telling her sister.

[Christina]

Note how Feyre immediately, without question, notes that she must vote yes. That her sister should know something about her own self and her own magic and her own body without thinking, oh, wow.

[Kim]

Rhysand.

[Anna]

Touche.

[Christina]

Yeah, touche.

[Anna]

That should have been a note to Rhysand to be like, right, right, right, right, right, right.

[Kim]

So you would want to know.

[Anna]

So. So you would want to know if the tables were turned.

[Christina]

This is the moment when Rhys should have been like, like, so this got away from me.

[Kim]

So regrets were made.

[Anna]

I've let this go downhill too far. We need to have a conversation. Yeah, good point, Christina. Great point. So Cassian is tasked with telling Nesta, which, at the time, I'm sure made sense. I'm sure.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Anna]

However, Cassia does not do a good job. Okay, listen, we love Cat. We love him.

[Kim]

We love him deeply.

[Anna]

But he's a little bit of a dum dum in this situation. Okay, so Cassian thinks he's being all sneaky and he brings up blades during training. And he's like. So, like, Nesta, if. If, like, you were to have a sword, and I'm not saying you do or that you could make one, what would you name it? What would you name yourself?

[Kim]

What would you do?

[Anna]

He, like, keeps bringing it up in a way that's so obvious. And Nesta is not stupid. Nesta's very smart. So she immediately picks up on the fact that Cassian is hiding something. And, like, her guard's already up. And she's like, what's going on? And then he's being weird and he's. It's so bad. So he tells her the whole situation. And he's like. So we argued about whether to tell you, but we took a vote. And it went in your favor because we trust you. I just hadn't gotten a chance to bring it up yet. And Nesta's like, oh, so there was a possibility you wouldn't even tell me. You all sat around and judged me. And then you voted. And it says. Something deep in her chest cracked to know that every horrible thing about her had been analyzed.

[Kim]

God, we have made it so far.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

You know, we were.

[Anna]

We were almost to the top.

[Kim]

We just gonna die.

[Anna]

Like, she just dropped queaks off the side of it. Just obviously reinforcing all of the negative thoughts that Nesta already feels that everyone hates her. Because that's what Cassian said. No one trusts her. And that she's unworthy of being part of the group. She already feel like an outsider. She already, like, is looking through the window of this inner circle and feeling like she doesn't belong. And then Cassie's like, oh, don't worry. We voted.

[Christina]

And she's like, it went in your favor, though. So that's good. That's good.

[Anna]

Yeah. Because we trust you.

[Christina]

You should be happy.

[Kim]

No, no, that's not the way this works.

[Anna]

No, it's so. He handles it so terribly.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So at this point, she. She literally blacks out. She goes to the stairs and she starts her descent. And of course, today is the day that she's finally able to accomplish getting to the bottom. What a fun coincidence that is.

[Christina]

Fueled by rage.

[Anna]

Here's what it says. She didn't count the stairs. Didn't feel her legs moving. There was only the roaring of her blood. And the roaring in her head. And the crack down the center of her chest. No amount of mind stealthy could calm it, smother it. The ground grew nearer. She couldn't think around her fury, that pain. Couldn't think. Only move. The stairwell turned warmer, farther away from the cold wind above. Amren had entirely given up on her. The debate about sending her up here had been different. Nesta knew that debate had been out of a desire to help her. She could acknowledge that now. This debate had been out of hatred and fear of her. Yeah.

[Christina]

Oh, God. What a parallel. In that last sentence. She could acknowledge that the first time was to help her. That's huge growth. But this is not that. And it just sends her right back to rock bottom. It's almost like how I was saying last week how Rhys going into this book from Frost and Starlight, he was like, something bad's gonna happen. And then it happened. He's like, I fucking knew it. I knew it, I knew it, I knew it. Like, I think that's where she is. She's like, yep.

[Anna]

Oh, yeah. She's like waiting for the other shoe to drop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And here we are.

[Kim]

And we just. We've come so far. And then to have this, like you said, like, this growth moment of she can acknowledge this. And then this idea, though, that like, everyone still hates her. And you see her with Emery and Gwyn and you see how far she's coming and she has made such great strides. And she's like, why is it not enough? Like, you could see her in her head going like, I'm trying. Like, why I'm doing X, I'm doing. Yeah. I can't get, like, why is nobody seeing this? And it's a self involved viewpoint of it, but you can understand her being like, fuck, this hurts. Like, I can't. I'm damned if I do, I'm damned if I don't. I can't win. I just like, give me one, give me something. And then also, I think it hurts that it's Amren.

[Anna]

I think it's. I think it said it's Amren. I mean, Rhys is like. She's like, well, yeah, like, I wasn't gonna say that he should vote for me, but it's. It's Amren that really hurts her.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So, yeah, she's gonna go confront Amren because that is who she's really pissed about. Okay. So she barges into Amren's apartment and honestly, this conversation and confrontation between them is probably much needed, but it is handled horribly. Amren is horrible to Nesta. Nesta says, you were my friend. Amren's teeth flashed. Was I? I don't think you know what that word means.

[Christina]

That's so mean. And especially cuts Nesta, because she's like, no, I have friends now. And then she's like, you don't know what that means? Like, oh, wait, so now I don't. Gwynne and Emory, maybe. I don't know what it means. And it's just like, it's so sad.

[Kim]

You can just see how she's already blacking out. Everyone's talking about me. Everyone hates me, reinforcing all my negative thoughts. And then she gets there and Amren's like, yeah, no, I don't think you know what that means. It's like, cool. I'm just gonna plummet.

[Anna]

Like, Amren is so awful to her. And I don't. Again, I don't understand what we're doing.

[Kim]

You know, it's kind of frustrating. It's like the Rhysand thing. It's like, I understand she's a tiny ancient one. I understand that has in the past books been snarky and honestly, can be cutting, like Nesta. I'm not saying that we have not seen signs of that. I think the difference is it was Feyre's pov. Feyre loves Amren. And I think. But you can't ignore the way that she calls Cassian a dog. She says at one point, like, you be careful when you fuck her. She says something really weird about their sex life at one point during the blacksmith conversation. It's just weird. And it's like, you're not helping. I understand your part, Amren. Go work out your own shit. Maybe you need to go train.

[Anna]

Yeah. You're a trillion years old. You should be, like, able to handle

[Christina]

the fact that she hurt your feelings. Like, yeah, okay, agreed.

[Anna]

I honestly. I have this note where I'm like, okay, between Amren and Aries. And I don't know what Sarah was hoping to accomplish here. And it seems like she dialed up the most negative aspects of Rhysand and Amren in this book. Book specifically. And it was honestly so unpleasant as the reader. And I don't understand, like, Sarah, you have worked so hard to have these characters. We go on this journey with them. We grow to know them and love them and care for them. And then it's like she takes them and is just like. Well, all that. Like, why?

[Christina]

Yeah. And it would be one thing if we're in Nesta's head and she is taking their words to mean something else. Or she's creating these narratives because, says, fine, we're in Nessa's head. That's part of her journey, how she sees these people. But no, we're getting on page. Amren saying specific words that are just too mean. They just don't make sense contextually.

[Anna]

Agreed.

[Christina]

You know?

[Anna]

Well, it's in Cassian's POV, too. So, like, it's not.

[Christina]

You know what I mean? Like, exactly.

[Anna]

It's. It's Cassian, who Amren has been a family with for. Yeah, hundreds of years. So she's being awful to him too. And so I'm like Sarah, I don't know what we're doing.

[Kim]

It doesn't sit well. I don't like it. And it's but it sets us up.

[Anna]

Yeah. So we have this terrible conversation. Amren is such a bitch. And Feyre shows up because everyone's like sound the alarms. Nesta's made it down the stairs, the beast has been unleashed. Everybody get figure out where Nesta is. And Feyre runs in.

[Christina]

Here we go. Oh my God. Okay, so I'm just gonna read these quotes because this scene is so well written and okay. Nesta didn't care, couldn't think about the roaring. Have any of them told you, their respected High Lord, that the babe in your womb will kill you? Amren barked, shut your mouth. But her order was confirmation enough. Face paling, Feyre whispered, what do you mean the wings. Nesta seethed. The boy's Illyrian wings will get stuck in your Fae body during the labor and it will kill you both.

[Kim]

So aggressive.

[Christina]

Feyre then to this is crying and is like but what do you mean? I don't. I don't. I saw the bone carver as the baby and like what?

[Kim]

I don't understand how that works.

[Christina]

And Nesta just goes I don't know. But I do know that your mate ordered everyone not to inform you of the truth. She turned to Ambren. Did you all vote on that too? Did you talk about her, judge her and deem her her unworthy of the truth? What was your vote, Amren? To let Feyre die in ignorance? Before Amren could reply, Nesta turned back to her sister. Didn't you question why your precious perfect Rhysand has been a moody bastard for weeks? Because he knows you will die. He knows. And yet he still didn't tell you. It keeps going. Okay then Feyre's crying and she's like. Rhys knew. Tears spilled down Feyre's cheeks, smearing the paint spider there above the threat to our lives. She peered down at herself, at the tattooed hand cradling her abdomen. And Nesta knew that she had not once in her life been loved by her mother as much as Feyre already loved the boy growing inside her. It broke something in Nesta, broke that rage, that roaring, seeing those tears begin to fall, the fear crumpling Feyre's paint smeared face. She had gone too far. She oh gods, she'd gone too far. This is so hard to read and it is so aggressive. It is the wolf in that cage shredding her opponent apart. It is so mean and cunning and cutting that if we hadn't gone on this journey and about the journey we're about to go on. I don't know how I could forgive her for this. Like, I do understand and I do. And it's not that Feyre didn't deserve to know. Is the problem.

[Anna]

Absolutely.

[Kim]

The delivery.

[Anna]

The delivery was. It was cruel.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Yes.

[Anna]

I don't see how you could argue that. My problem is Nessa's intention behind this. It was not to tell Feyre for her. Because, like, that was the right thing to do. We can all agree it was the right thing to do. That Feyre know this information. No one is trying to argue that. But you cannot argue that. Nessa's intention here is to hurt Feyre, to lash out at her, to be cruel to her. And this is her life. This is her baby's life. This is not how you deliver this information. It's disgusting. I'm sorry, it's disgusting.

[Christina]

She's using it to inflict pain.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

She wants Feyre to hurt the way she's hurting.

[Christina]

Right. Well. And I do think, you know, if, as we've said, Sarah had to map out this whole book, we had to get Nesta to rock bottom.

[Kim]

Absolutely.

[Christina]

We had to get her to the lowest of low to than have everything happen. And to get there, what happens is Rhys is absolutely furious and orders Cassian to, quote, get Nesta out of the city right now before I fucking kill her. Something about this, the first read, I was like, oh, wow, okay, that's aggressive. In this read I was like, I'm valid. I don't know.

[Anna]

Honestly, I feel valid.

[Christina]

Also, he's not going to actually kill her.

[Kim]

No, he would needs a break.

[Christina]

Okay, so let's talk about Feyre in this moment. So they go on the hike. We'll talk about the hike in detail in a moment. But they go on the hike and Feyre mind speaks to Cassian. Which by the way, just a moment of levity here. Cassian's like, oh, I forgot you could mind speak.

[Anna]

Oh, hey girl. I thought we could do this. I've been doing this the whole time.

[Christina]

Feyre was like, wow, I don't know if I should be offended, like, maybe I should be using my De Maddie skills more. Like, yeah, why aren't we using that more in any helpful political situation? Seriously, if you aren't using it enough that Cassian forgets you can do it. Maybe we should be using this more.

[Anna]

We need to be doing that more.

[Christina]

But fine. Okay.

[Kim]

Okay.

[Christina]

She minds me to Cassian. And pretty much she says, Rhys overreacted sending you away. Like, I'm sorry for my mate's behavior. Pretty much.

[Anna]

I don't think so.

[Christina]

And she does say that she's furious at everyone for keeping the secret. But also that she's not really mad at Nesta because she had the courage to tell her. Ultimately, she's very calm about the whole thing.

[Anna]

More calm than I would be.

[Kim]

I know.

[Christina]

Also, keep in mind not much time has passed, so.

[Anna]

No, it's been like a couple days.

[Christina]

Oh, I don't even think it's been a day. They leave for the hike.

[Kim]

It's literally like within hours.

[Anna]

See, I don't.

[Christina]

It's within hours.

[Anna]

Weird.

[Christina]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So.

[Christina]

Okay. Cassian still like apologizes for Nesta even though Feyre is not mad at her. She's over it and pretty much says like she wishes Feyre hadn't found out the way that she did. And he says, like we said, she told you the truth to hurt you. Feyre says, perhaps, but she was the only one who said anything Cassian said. I think she saw the parallels between your situations and in her own way decided to avenge both of you. That's my feeling too.

[Kim]

Feyre said, I feel like that's Sarah trying to make it more palatable.

[Christina]

Agree.

[Anna]

It's not.

[Kim]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Cassian then says, how can you be so calm about this? Valid. Good question. And then Feyre's response is. The alternative is fear and panic. I will not let my son feel those things. I will fight for him, for us. Until I no longer can. Cassian's throat tightened. We'll fight for you too. And she says, I know. I love that we will fight for you too. Moment.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Christina]

I love that it's hard for me. This from Feyre. I love the motherhood, being strong for your child. We all feel it. We all know know it. I get it. But it feels like a cop outs for her to be able to get over it. Like, I don't know. Like this is the Feyre that went to the cabin for days because she was so race for not telling her. And now within hours she's like, he overreacted.

[Kim]

It's fine.

[Christina]

It was. That was hard for me. And I get it's not Favor's book, but I would have loved to see Reese groveling something.

[Anna]

Yeah. I feel like Sarah dialed the. The. The confrontation up to a 10 and then now Feyre's response is like a five. A four.

[Christina]

Yeah. And we don't even get to see

[Anna]

it, you have to match these. Like, for as terrible as Nesta was, there has to be not consequences, but, like, you're almost taking away the intensity of that situation by having Feyre be so, like, mild and calm about it and just be like, we're fine. Rhys overreacted.

[Kim]

Yeah. I don't want to say it's out of character for Feyre to forgive Nesta, because I don't think it is. No. I just expected there to be a little bit more grief.

[Anna]

Grief and, like, flash and, like, real life fallout from this.

[Christina]

Yeah. And I think that's what it is. The grief thing. That's what we didn't get to see. Because, again, it's not her book. So it happened not where Nesta was.

[Anna]

True.

[Christina]

But what I wanted was some acknowledgement. I'm okay with her forgiving Nesta, but I needed her to be really mad and upset with someone.

[Kim]

I think it goes back to what you just said, though, Christina. That's like. It's not her book. So we're not gonna get it. But it's frustrating.

[Anna]

Okay, Anna, let's do the hike.

[Christina]

Buckle up, everybody.

[Anna]

This is the Climb, okay, by Miley Cyrus.

[Christina]

It's the cloud.

[Anna]

There's always gonna be another magic. I was singing that this morning driving home from Drop Off. Like, love it. It's the climb, baby.

[Christina]

Let's go.

[Anna]

Let's do this.

[Christina]

All right, everybody.

[Kim]

All right, listeners. This brings us to one of the most brutal sections of the book. Nesta is basically operating on empty. Physically, emotionally, mentally. Cassian puts her through long, grueling days of hiking carrying a pack. It nearly breaks her. She's barely speaking. He's barely acknowledging her beyond what's necessary. And Nesta doesn't push back. She doesn't complain. She doesn't seem to care. She's just existing. She's going through the motions. Because stopping would mean thinking. And thinking would mean facing how much she hates herself and all of the things that she just did. What's really important here is that this isn't just physical exhaustion. This is Nesta actively flirting with not wanting to exist anymore. She ignores hunger. She ignores thirst. She doesn't signal for help. And eventually, her body completely gives out and she collapses. She faints. And that's the moment Cassian realizes just how far gone she is. And that this isn't stubbornness or defiance. It's apathy, which is worse. And it's indifference towards her own survival. So the stakes aren't about whether or not she can finish the hike. And make it to the lake. The stakes are whether or not Nesta actually just wants to keep herself alive. And that realization, for Cassian and for the readers. Is what makes the quotes coming up in the section hit so hard. So eventually we get this big inner monologue from Nesta and where she stands and they are approaching the lake. It was a blessed relief to be nothing and no one. She had been born wrong. Had been born with claws and fangs. And had never been able to keep from using them. Them. Never been able to quell the part of her that roared at betrayal. That could hate and love more violently than anyone ever understood. She didn't know how to fix it, how to make any of it right. How to stop being this way. She didn't remember a time when she hadn't been angry. Maybe before her mother had died. But even then, her mother herself had been bitter, disdainful of their father. And her mother's disdain had become her own. She couldn't quell that relentless turning. Anger. Couldn't stop herself from lashing out before she could be wounded. She was no better than a rabid dog. She had been a rabid dog with Amren and Feyre. A beast exactly like Tamlin. She hadn't even cared that she'd made it down the stairs at last. Did it count? When it was driven by fury? Did she count? Was she worth being counted? It was the question that sent everything crumpling inside her. And then she approaches the lake. Nesta didn't see the lake or the stones or the sunlight. And green. Her vision blurred and her eyes stung as if they had been sliced. Cleaved open to allow tears to pass. She made it to the stones before she fell to her knees so hard the rock bit into her bones. Was she worth being counted? She knew the answer, had always known it.

[Christina]

Oh, God.

[Anna]

It's brutal.

[Christina]

So hard. Oh, God. And also beautifully written at the same time.

[Anna]

Yes, so beautifully written.

[Christina]

So well done. She was.

[Kim]

Writes these monologues for her characters. And it just. It comes from a deep part of her, clearly, where she can just. Yeah, put it out there. And you read that. And the way that she says. Was she worth being counted? You know?

[Anna]

Oh, God. So powerful.

[Kim]

So powerful. She compares herself to the. To the cornered animal. To a rabid cornered animal. To a rabid dog.

[Christina]

Exactly that. Wolf through line.

[Anna]

Yeah. Okay. So they reach the lake. And it's clear from the quotes that Anna just read that Nesta is at. At rock bottom now. I. I naively thought she began the book at rock bottom. But Sarah said, hold my beer. It can get so much worse. You sweet summer child. You don't even know.

[Christina]

You don't even know. And.

[Anna]

And we didn't know. We didn't not know.

[Kim]

Nope.

[Anna]

So they get to the lake. Nesta is questioning whether or not she wants to be alive. And she finally breaks down on the shore, sobbing and shaking. Cassian wraps his arms around her, comforting her. And Nesta finally vocalizes out loud all the grief and self hatred she has been holding on to. He came to save me and fought for me. And I let him die with hate in my heart. Hate for him. He died because I didn't stop it. Her voice broke and she wept harder. And I was so horrid to him. Until the very end. I was so, so horrid to him all my life. And still he somehow loved me. I didn't deserve it, but he did. And I let him die. I can't undo it. I can't fix it. I can't fix that he's dead. I can't fix what I said to Feyre. I can't fix any of the horrible things I've done. I can't fix me. I should have found a way to save us before then. Save Elaine and Feyre when we were poor. But I was so angry. And I wanted him to try to fight for us. But he didn't. And I would have let us all starve to prove what a wretch he was. It consumed me so much that I let Feyre go into that forest. And told myself I didn't care. That she was half wild and it didn't matter. And yet she let out a wrenching cry. I close my eyes and I see her. That day she went out to hunt the first time.

[Kim]

Him.

[Anna]

I see Elaine going into the cauldron. I see her taken by it during the war. I see my father dead. And now I will see Feyre's face when I told her that the baby would kill her. Oh, she says. I hate it. I hate every part of me that does these things. And yet I can't stop it. I can't let down that barrier. Because to let it fall. To let everything in. This was what would happen. This shrieking, weeping mess she'd become. I can't bear to be in my head. I can't bear to hear and see everything over and over. That is all. I hear the snapping of his neck. His last words to me that he loved me. And she says I didn't deserve that love. I deserve nothing.

[Christina]

Oh, it's I deserve nothing.

[Anna]

Oh, just everything about like, yeah, I let Feyre go into that forest and yeah, it's just so.

[Christina]

And what a journey for us, right? Like we have spent hours of our lives actually.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Like Nesta, how dare you. How could you do that to Feyre. Etc. Like all the things. And then you get to this part in the book and you don't forgive her, but you just feel it with her. Like you hold it with her and you're just.

[Kim]

Oh, it's the first time she's vocalizing everything that we have thought out loud. And she actually feels remorse.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

She doesn't want you hear her say like, I, I don't want to be this way. I don't like fix me. How can I?

[Anna]

I can't fix myself. I can't fix me.

[Kim]

I can't. Why do I keep doing this?

[Christina]

And it's this.

[Kim]

It's so sad, but it's so beautifully written. It's so cathartic for the readers to see her say all of these things because yes, you get inner monologues, but it's different when you vocalize it out loud.

[Anna]

Yeah, agreed. And I think that's what I needed as the reader was like, I needed Nesta to say it because she's thinking it, but I'm like, but you're not saying it. Like then when she does it you're like, oh Nesta, I know it's. Oh God, it's just. It's so beautiful. And Cassian tells her what you feel, this guilt and pain and self loathing. You will get, get through it, but only if you are willing to fight. Only if you are willing to face it and embrace it and walk through it to emerge on the other side of it.

[Christina]

Oh, it's just this whole section is so beautiful. And I think when we first read this six years ago, I was just in such a different place. Like this hit me so differently and I wasn't a mom yet. I hadn't really gone to therapy yet. But I really feel like I related more to her this time around and I, I understood more why so much of the fandom is so deeply connected to her in this way that feels like she's talking about you. It feels like almost a defensiveness of Nesta in a way that you're relating to her. You know, I struggle a lot with negative self talk and not feeling like I'm enough and I feel like that's a lot of my people pleasing personality of I should be like this and should do this and all these other things to be liked. And so I. Having Cassian on Paige be like, you don't have to be some impossible ideal. There's nothing, like, to fix.

[Anna]

There's nothing to fix.

[Christina]

I didn't expect to relate to it this much this time.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Christina]

And it was just really so powerful.

[Anna]

It really was. I. Yeah, I definitely feel like when she says I hate it. Every part of me that does these things, and yet I can't stop it. I feel like that, too, just even in being a mom, like, when I snap at my kids or I yell at my kids, even when it's happening, I'm like, this is not that big of a deal. Like, in my mind, I'm like, stop it. Like, why are you doing this? Why are you reacting this way? Like, it's not that big of a deal. Like, it's okay. And then I get in bed and, like, you know, look at pictures of them and sob. And, like, I started apologizing to them. Like, I just got upset with Evie for breaking something. And later I came back to her, and I was like, hey, I'm really sorry for doing that. Like, I should not have yelled at you. Like, that's not fair to do that to you. Like, it was not that big of a deal. Because it's hard when you. You feel like you can't control yourself sometimes when you're just, like, you lash out. And even when you're lashing out, your inner monologue is like, stop it. Stop it. Stop doing this. Calm down. I so relate to Nesta in this way. And hearing her talk about, like, I hate this part of myself. I hate that I'm like, this.

[Kim]

I know. It's the. It's the same thing. Kim, the kids, and, like, just feeling like I have so many thoughts in my head moving at once. The mental load of, like, do this, do that, you know, I need you to go, okay, go here. Go put your shoes on and stop arguing. Why are you asking me so many questions? Like, I just need you to do this. And then you lose it, and you snap, and you're human. And then it's like an immediate. I almost want to, like, scream at myself. Because I'm like, why did I just snap at them? Like, it's not their fault. But the important thing, like you said, is. Is what Nessa does here is going to apologize.

[Christina]

And also then being able to forgive yourself for that, because that's her biggest piece of this journey here, is then understanding that you have to then forgive yourself.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Christina]

Okay, so let's Talk about that. So Cassian. God, guys, he's so beautiful in this part.

[Anna]

Oh, he. The way he handles Nesta in this scene is so beautiful.

[Christina]

Oh, it's so gorgeous. Okay. Forgiveness is something we also grant ourselves. And I can talk to you until these mountains crumble around us. But if you don't wish to be forgiven, you don't want to stop feeling this way. If you don't want to stop feeling this way, it won't happen. He kept her cheek. You don't need to become some impossible ideal. You don't need to become sweet and simpering. You can give everyone that I will slay my enemies look. Which is my favorite look, by the way. You can keep that sharpness I like so much. That boldness and fearless. I don't want you to ever lose those things to cage yourself. And she said, but I still don't know how to fix myself. He says there's nothing broken to fix. You are helping yourself. Healing the parts of you that hurt too much and perhaps hurt others too. Oh God, it's so beautiful.

[Anna]

So beautiful.

[Kim]

This is such an important moment for them.

[Christina]

Yeah. It's just so well done here. And I think it really hits. And it is what it is because of the journey it took us to get here. Like, Rhysand could say these exact words until he's blue in the face to Feyre. And it wouldn't hit like this. Like it's because of the journey we've been on with Nesta.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

And so Cassian, knowing that she needs the physical activity and giving her a purpose and giving her. Reminding her that she has this power in her and she built it up. He lets her cry. And then he hands her the blade and he says, show me the eight pointed star. And it's like. Says each slice was perfect. Like that eight pointed star was stamped on her very heart. The sword was an extension of her arm, a part of her as much as her hair or breath. Every movement bloomed with purpose and precision in the moonlight before Silvered Lake. She was the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen. Nesta finished the eighth maneuver and returned the sword to center. The light in her eyes shone brighter than the moon overhead.

[Kim]

I love that.

[Anna]

Oh God, it's so beautiful. It's so beautiful.

[Kim]

You know, we've come so far. We hit rock bottom again.

[Anna]

And then we got a pick and we said, we're going further.

[Kim]

We're going. We're getting up that mountain. God damn it.

[Christina]

But then the journey here feels so earned and beautiful.

[Anna]

So earned.

[Christina]

Okay. All right, I'm gonna stop crying. Anna, could you do the sign up?

[Kim]

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely I can. All right, listeners, that is where we're gonna wrap up part four of our Akusoff episode. Yes, we will be back next week to discuss Nesta and Cassian's trip to the prison island, the harp, and the winter Solstice. Solstice ball.

[Christina]

But. Da, da, da.

[Kim]

Don't leave yet. Don't leave because it's time for our favorite little corner of the episode, Mastermind.

[Anna]

Yay.

[Kim]

Where we peel back the curtain and all the brilliant foreshadowing plot threads. Easter eggs that Sarah J. Maas has been planting since page one. A quick spoiler warning. From here on out, in addition to Acotar, we will be referencing the entire Throne of Glass and Crescent City series. So if you have not finished those yet, cheers and happy reading. We'll see you next time. But if you're all caught up, let's dive in. Yay.

[Christina]

I do also want to give a PSA that Akasoft has a lot to do here, guys. There's a lot of Mastermind Easter eggs. So if something comes up in an episode we're actively speaking about and we don't bring it up in Mastermind, it might be in another episode's Mastermind. But just know that we will get to them all in the AKA soft coverage. We promise.

[Kim]

We also have so many CC3 theories episodes where after, yes, after we had the crossover acknowledged, guys, we went crazy. PhD level thesis with theories and crossover parallels, everything. So I guarantee you that in the years over the last two years, we have discussed it.

[Anna]

We've discussed it. Yes.

[Christina]

Great. All right, Anna, start us off.

[Kim]

Okay, so I have this quick little tog parallel here that I love. Earlier in the one of the episodes, we were talking about Cassian, and it's one of our favorite quotes. And at the end, you know, he says, like he says, I love that look upon your face. At the first time I saw it, I would fall to my knees. And then he says, you, power is a song and one I've waited a very, very long time to hear. Nesta. And we've talked about how Cassing has never really been afraid of Nesta where others have been. And it just reminds me of Rowan and Aelin when Rowan says, I see you, I see every part of you and I am not afraid. Yes.

[Christina]

And I think this sentiment of I see you, I see every part of you, and I'm not afraid is exactly the sentiment that Cassian was portraying at the lake, that is. What he was saying to her was like, you don't have to be this impossible ideal. I see every part of you. I want you to keep giving people those glares, like, I'm gonna be here and I'm gonna love you.

[Anna]

Yeah, that's such a good point, Christina.

[Kim]

Okay, so we would be remiss if we didn't just mention this really fast, but in Acotar, the Daglan are the Asteri. Right? Okay. And we also. We've talked about this. The Illyrians, the prototypes are the Angels and Midgard, that is Canon. Our people who built fearsome warriors in that world to be their army. Prototypes for the angels in this one. Traitors to their creators. Joining the Fae to overthrow my brothers and sisters. That is from Crescent City 2. Another just canon. Daglan equals Asteris is in Akisoff. We have in chapter 55, we learn about the Daglan that they ruled a millennia ago. Enslaved humans and the Fae. They were petty and cruel and drank the magic of the land like wine, which is literally what the Asteri do in. In Crescent City. When anyoneir make the drop, they expel magic, which is then turned into First Light, which is essentially just food for the Asteri. Yep. And Amren says at the top of Crescent City 3, when Bryce is being held captive, she says it is in our history Rhysand. But the Asteri were not known by that name here. They were called the Daglan Canon.

[Anna]

I did love that we got that so quickly in CC3. She's like, nope, Aseri Daglan. Daglan Aseri Potato.

[Christina]

Oh, man.

[Anna]

Okay, okay.

[Christina]

Oh, God. I'm taking you back to the Bhagavor and everybody get back on the bus, okay?

[Kim]

Oh, God damn it.

[Anna]

God, I've missed it so much.

[Christina]

All right, so actually, in Hofest, I forgot all about this. We learn that King Fion died at the Bog of Orid because the bog was like this private hunting park for the Daglan and their beasts and stuff. And the kelpie pulled Fion under the water, and Theia and Pelia just stood there. There he goes.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Oh, dear.

[Christina]

Well, and they came back with the swords because they then summoned Gwydion and Truth Teller. They rose out of the water and went to her because of her starborn power, but also the fact that she was there when they were both dipped into the cauldron. Yeah.

[Kim]

So fun fact.

[Christina]

All that happened at the Bag of Oren.

[Anna]

Yes. Okay, so let's chat about The Pegasus.

[Christina]

Oh yes.

[Anna]

Which now we know exists in both Crescent City and the Acotar world. Okay, so this is from when Helion flies in to visit Prythian. According to legend, the Pegasi had come from the island the prison sat upon, had once fed in fair meadows that had long given way to moss and mist. Perhaps that was part of the decline. Their homeland had vanished and whatever had sustained them there was no longer. Lore held that there had once been far more of them before recorded history, and the most of them had just vanished as if they'd been devoured by the sky itself. Their population had dwindled further in the last thousand years for reasons no one

[Christina]

could explain interest on.

[Anna]

Okay, interesting. We also know from Selene's hologram info dump in CC3 that the Pegasi were driven into the battle on Midgard. And then when Bryce and the crew are in the Prince of Caves, there are carvings depicting the Pegasi being slaughtered. So it says Faye in elaborate armor have been carved into the walls, many holding what seem to be ropes that have been looped around the necks of flying horses. They pull them towards the ground, some sank into the sea. And Bryce says a hunt. Hunt. So the early Fae did kill all of the as Pegasus then. And then she also says the Pegasi and the tunnel's carvings hadn't been religious iconography then. And they lived long enough in Midgard to grace early art like the frieze at the Crescent City Ballet. They must have all died out, becoming nothing more than myth and a line of sparkly toys.

[Christina]

Oh wow.

[Anna]

So fun. Although a fun, fun, happy ending here is that we know at the end of CC3, after the asteri were defeated, two dozen pegasi appeared. Avalon after Bryce, Moana the land. And it's like they sprang out of the earth. I love it so much. And Bryce even wonders if Helena somehow kept them secretly alive waiting until it was finally safe for them to appear again. And guys, we have a really fun fan fiction fof Canon bonus chapter with Baxian. It's incredible. If you have read CC3, please go to our Patreon and find this fof Canon bonus chapter. We write a little fun deleted scene with Baxian battling the Pegaside on Avalon.

[Christina]

And.

[Anna]

And it's a freaking treat.

[Christina]

Is trying to keep him in line.

[Kim]

You know, Bramble Blueberry bramble is acting up again.

[Anna]

Yes, I went and reread the end of CC3 when he calls Bryce and Hunt and they're like about to have sex on the desk and he's like I need you to get here. It's DEFCON 5.

[Christina]

The Pegasus. They're not listening to me.

[Anna]

So funny. All right. But speaking of Helion.

[Christina]

Yes, yes.

[Kim]

So Helion. When he sees a dread train for the first time, he references an ancestor who wielded the mask and refuses to house the Dread Troves in his court. This is the quote. Perhaps an ancestor of mine once used it. And warning of its cost is imprinted upon my blood. And then he recoils from the Troba items themselves.

[Christina]

His reaction is not normal to other people's reactions.

[Kim]

Not normal. We talked about this in one of our earlier CC3 episodes and I stand by this. Especially after reading this quote from this book. It feels like Helion might have been related to Helena. And also the names Helion, Helena. It feels like Charlotte, Charles, you know, like they're all like derived from the same name. And Pegasus, if they did originally hail from the Dust Court, AKA the prison island, and then went through to Midgard with Helena, it makes sense that Helena would keep them on a magical mist island that resembles at least something that they had in Prythian. Right. It's shrouded in mist. Helion is the only person who owns surviving Pegasi in this world. Again, it makes sense if it's in his blood. If something like Helena was able to somehow control or help rear the Pegasi, it would make sense that if it was somehow passed down. We know that Rhysand comes from Selene's the Thaya's daughter. Selene's line. And Bryce is a part of Queen Theia's line. Who's to say that somewhere along the way Helion. Also the Day Court. The Shining, the Star.

[Christina]

That would mean. If we're saying this, that would mean that Helion I. E. Lucian are Starborn Fae. They have starborn powers, which.

[Kim]

But so does Rhysand. But it's noted that. Yeah, like it could be latent. Like it's not as pure blooded through.

[Anna]

Sure.

[Christina]

But Helion's Day Court. Like, what of that? What of that glowing? What if it could also be starborn power? Ooh.

[Kim]

Could Lucian help bring back the Dusk Court if that's the case? Case. Lucian and Elaine. I love that.

[Anna]

What a power couple.

[Christina]

I still think Elain's going to spring, but I love this idea of Lucian being involved.

[Anna]

Yes.

[Kim]

That's so fun though.

[Christina]

Okay. Also, Gwydian.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Christina]

We obviously know that Gwydion is the Star Sword. They are one of the same. And the real story is that after going through the gates into Midgard Pelias took Gwydion, even though it's only meant for female heirs. But he then, we're assuming, named it Star Sword, and then it was buried with him in the Cave of Princes and run. Then later retrieved it from the Cave of Princes and then, as we know, later gave it to Bryce.

[Kim]

Yes.

[Christina]

So that is the actual history of Odien.

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Kim]

Also, something that happens after the Bog of Urid is there's two Autumn Court soldiers who are kept alive, and Asriel brings them to his torture dungeon chambers that are in the bottom of the hewn city. And this is the description. There was a place in the Court of Nightmares where even Kir and his elite squadron of Darkbringers did not dare try tread. Once the Night Court's enemies entered that place, they did not come out. Not alive, anyway. Most of what remained of their bodies didn't leave either. Those went through the hatch in the center of the circular room and into the pit of writhing beasts below to their scales and claws and merciless hunger. The beasts did not feed often. They could receive a body every 10 years and make it last going into hibernation between meals. So it continues on, and then it says, their snarls and hisses, their snapping tails and scraping claws could have incentivized the males. Chained the chairs to talk. So I read it this time, and I was like, wait a second. This sounds so familiar to me. It's got to be where Bryce was being held captive. Obviously, she's held captive somewhere in a torture chamber in the beginning of Hofas in the huge city. But it's glaringly obvious that I think her room is technically not a circle. But I also think that there's probably. I mean, who wouldn't have multiple torture chains? I mean, right?

[Anna]

Well, I mean, they've got to be cleaned and turned over. Like there probably is blood.

[Christina]

Maid service. Yes.

[Kim]

I mean, you might have multiple. You need to separate sometimes the prisoners and interrogate them separately.

[Anna]

Sure, of course.

[Christina]

You know, but this is. It's really fun that they're so similar.

[Kim]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it says that she was, you know, thrown into a room and that there was a grate in the center of the floor a few feet away. A grate from which she could have sworn. A hissing sound emanated.

[Christina]

I love that.

[Kim]

I cannot tell you how many times the word hissing is used in the first, like, few chapters with bryce.

[Anna]

Oh, like 17 or 20 times.

[Kim]

Bryce couldn't stop herself from coolly surveying the room, her attention lingering on the grate and the hissing that drifted from it. And then again like two more times in that same section when she eventually does go through the grate and drops, she saw a writhing sea of black scaled bodies. She compares them to Sobek's in her world. And then she also says there's hissing mouths and slashing tails, which is exactly how they're described in Akasoft, which is so cool.

[Anna]

So cool. Yeah.

[Kim]

All right, listeners, that wraps up our Mastermind section.

[Christina]

Yay.

[Kim]

We are so excited. We'll see you guys next week.

[Christina]

Bye Bye.

[Anna]

Well friends, that wraps up another episode of Flights of Fantasy Podcast. Don't forget to join our book club community on Instagram and TikTok at flights of Fantasy Podcast where you can share your thoughts, thoughts, theories, and favorite moments with us and fellow listeners. We'd love to hear from you. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Your support helps us spread the magic of Romantasy to even more book lovers. Until next time, keep dreaming, keep reading, and remember, every good story deserves to take flight.