Jake Johnson on Ed Harris, Chris Farley and The Dink

Summary

Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade
Episode: Jake Johnson on Ed Harris, Chris Farley and The Dink
Date: July 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively and candid episode, Dana Carvey and David Spade welcome actor/writer/producer Jake Johnson for a wide-ranging conversation on showbiz evolution, the making of Johnson's latest film The Dink, working with legends like Ed Harris, and memories of SNL and Chris Farley. The hosts and their guest dive into tales from sets, dissect the dynamics of comedy production, and reflect on generational changes in entertainment, aging, and the craft of improvisational storytelling. Equal parts nostalgia, shop talk, and playful banter, the episode offers a backstage pass for both die-hard fans and fellow creatives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Changing Faces of Aging and Hollywood

• Discussion on Age Perceptions (05:00–08:30)

  • The group riffs on how aging in Hollywood (and in society) has shifted, referencing actors like Brad Pitt, the Golden Girls, and past generations.
  • “Brad Pitt’s running around, smoking weed, looking great at 60. I’m like, 60s don’t seem old.” – Jake Johnson (06:12)
  • Observations on how actors “played old” decades ago, versus today’s youthful older stars.
  • David shares an anecdote about running into an old classmate who had aged much faster outside Hollywood (07:45).

• On Health, Fitness, and the Industry’s Pressures (08:18–11:22)

  • Candid chat about longevity in showbiz, medical shortcuts (testosterone, HGH), and the physical effects these can have.
  • Dana references Clint Eastwood’s mantra: “Don’t let the old man in.” (11:02)

2. Mickey Rooney & Old Hollywood Legends

• Dana’s Hilarious Mickey Rooney Stories (11:31–13:14)

  • Dana shares tales from working with Rooney, impersonating his larger-than-life personality.
  • “I was the number one star in the world. You hear me? Bang the world.” – As Mickey Rooney, recounted by Dana (12:11)
  • Johnson describes late-night YouTube rabbit holes watching Rooney “let it rip.”

• Wizard of Oz Tales (12:59–13:37)

  • Conversation turns to stories about the cast of The Wizard of Oz and their notorious antics.
  • “The Lollipop Guild, if you watch it again, they’re clearly a wreck.” – Dana Carvey (13:30)

3. The Making of The Dink & Comedy Collaboration

• Improv, Production, and Directing Experiences (14:13–18:28, 21:46–26:43)

  • Jake Johnson explains his preference to be hands-on as actor/producer, drawing on experience from indie films to larger productions.
  • Collaboration with director Josh Greenbaum is highlighted; Johnson praises Greenbaum’s kind, adaptable style and willingness to let actors play.
  • “He doesn’t have a mean bone. Must be happy…But when he comes and he’s not liking it? ‘Great—want to try it again, different?’” – Jake on Greenbaum (14:31)
  • The value of improvisation on set; giving actors freedom to find jokes and emotional beats.
  • Writers and actors are described as “all on the same team” and aiming for authentic laughter in screenings.

• Building Projects from Scratch in Hollywood (21:54–24:14)

  • Jake, a fan of doing things ‘with the people,’ discusses self-producing his films (Self Reliance, Drinking Buddies, etc.) and encouraging newcomers to make their own opportunities.
  • The process of developing The Dink (later acquired by Apple) began with just Jake and the writer Sean, then attracted Ben Stiller and others.

• Unique Premise & Casting for The Dink (24:24–26:43)

  • Premise explained: Jake’s character plays pickleball to recover from injury, gets involved platonically (and awkwardly unsuccessfully) with Mary Steenburgen’s character.
  • Johnson cites the humor in “subverting” typical age-gap romance scenes.
  • The cast was assembled through personal outreach, with Apple coming onboard after production.

• Working with Ed Harris (26:43–28:59, 41:48–43:24)

  • Ed Harris, new to comedy, brought an “old school” intensity. He’s described as both intimidating and a joy to watch, “ripping unfiltered cigarettes” and nailing takes.
  • Jake recalls the nerves (and sometimes mismatched tones) during improvising scenes with Harris.
  • “Making direct eye contact with Ed where we’re very close, and not saying that I’m going to go off book…doing a bit that isn’t landing…being like, ‘I hate you.’” – Jake Johnson (42:29–42:53)

4. Chris Farley, SNL, and Comedy Partnerships

• Chris Farley Memories (29:18–38:23)

  • Jake, a big Farley fan, asks about the dynamic between Spade and Carvey and what it was like creating comedy with Farley.
  • David recounts SNL and films with Chris—“a bit of a tornado,” high energy, “would show up” despite partying lifestyle.
  • Discussion of Tommy Boy, Black Sheep, and near-miss with The Cable Guy role (which Farley lost, Carrey picked up).
  • Lessons about not recognizing issues in the moment: “When you are in it, it is not obvious…In hindsight it’s clear but you don’t know.” – Jake Johnson (31:27)
  • Farley’s struggles with fame, money, and demons are treated with both humor and pathos.
  • Anecdote about Brian Dennehy helping the young stars pace themselves better during filming by “calling out” unnecessary takes.

• Comedy Duo Dynamics (40:04–41:48, 51:18–52:15)

  • The group discusses the magic of comic duos being opposites—Spade/Farley, Wayne & Garth, Abbott and Costello, Lewis and Martin.
  • “When you have a natural opposite…they’re just on different planets even though the scene’s working.” – Jake Johnson (51:47)

5. The SNL Effect—Phil Hartman, Lovitz, Odenkirk, and More

• On Phil Hartman (52:26–55:51)

  • Jake asks what made Hartman “the glue” of SNL.
  • Carvey praises his confidence (“so locked in”), versatility, and supportive presence.
  • Spade recounts Hartman’s calm, effortless mastery: “the least stressed of all of us because he was so good” (54:28).

• On John Lovitz & Ensemble Magic (55:51–56:42)

  • Discussion of Lovitz’s unique voice and presence, and the challenge/blessing of being on highly talented SNL casts.

• Comedy as a Constant Learning Curve (57:29–60:21)

  • Reminiscences with Jake about entering the LA comedy scene, learning from comics like Bob Odenkirk, and realizing there are always “levels to the game.”
  • Love for being surrounded by talent, and the push to always improve.

6. Comedy Craft & Philosophy

• On Motivation and Growth (60:21–62:27)

  • The excitement of “being in the vicinity” of comedic greatness.
  • Carvey cites encounters with Robin Williams as both inspirational and humbling.
  • “Once you cross the threshold of, ‘this is my job’, after that…it’s like trying to catch the wind…You can always wind down comedy. Something could always be juicier.” – Dana Carvey (61:59)

• Comedy’s Place & The Joy of The Dink (62:27–64:22)

  • Johnson wants comedy to feel like “yacht rock”—enjoyable, funny, and easy to watch, not burdened by meaning.
  • “Comedy is just a great thing to turn on and be distracted and have a great hour and a half.” – Jake Johnson (62:56)
  • Pride in making the ‘first pickleball movie,’ highlights from the Dink cast.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Aging in Hollywood:
  “When I was growing up, 60, that was it. Now you got to be like 80 to be called old.” – Jake Johnson (06:12)

• On Mickey Rooney:
  “I was the number one star in the world. You hear me? Bang the world.” – as Mickey Rooney, by Dana Carvey (12:11)

• On Improv and Directing:
  “Most directors just try to steer you, knowing everything’s so fragile. All actors are, you know, little baby.” – David Spade (15:09)

• On Farley’s Legacy:
  “You kind of don’t know at the time, this won’t be forever…He was a hard partier, but he would show up.” – David Spade (31:03)

• On Duo Chemistry:
  “When you have a natural opposite…it’s like they’re on different planets even though the scene’s working.” – Jake Johnson (51:47)

• On Leveling Up in Comedy:
  “There’s always levels to this game.” – Jake Johnson (57:44)
  “If I want to play this game, I have to keep getting better.” – Jake Johnson (59:08)

• On Comedy’s Purpose:
  “Comedy is just a great thing to turn on and be distracted and have a great hour and a half.” – Jake Johnson (62:56)

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Important Timestamps

• 05:00–08:30: Discussion on age, changing Hollywood standards
• 11:02: Dana quotes Clint Eastwood—“Don’t let the old man in.”
• 12:11: Dana’s Mickey Rooney impression—“Bang the world.”
• 14:13–18:28: Behind the scenes of The Dink, improv, working with directors
• 24:24: Jake Johnson describes the inception of The Dink
• 26:43: Assembling the cast; Ed Harris stories begin
• 29:18–38:23: Chris Farley stories and SNL reflections
• 41:48–43:24: Ed Harris, improvising with legends
• 51:18–52:15: Comic duos, the value of opposites
• 52:26–55:51: Phil Hartman remembered
• 57:29–60:21: Learning from Odenkirk, LA comedy lessons
• 62:27–64:22: Philosophy of comedy, The Dink as “yacht rock”
• 64:06: Release info for The Dink

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a blend of behind-the-scenes detail, open-hearted reflections, and infectious comedic energy. Jake Johnson’s admiration for comedy greats pairs perfectly with Carvey and Spade’s stories, offering both laughs and hard-won lessons for fans and aspiring comedians alike. The trio’s humility and camaraderie, paired with sharp observations about both the art and business of comedy, make this a must-listen for anyone curious about what keeps Hollywood’s funnymen coming back to the game.

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To see Jake Johnson’s new film The Dink, check out Apple TV starting July 24.

Transcript

[David Spade]

All right, now, before we get back, we have a message from Ashley the mosquito about Orkin. Hey, besties. Hope all of you are high key. So excited for summer. It's literally giving all of us mosquitoes life. So we thought we'd help everybody make the most of it before Orkin Pros try to ruin our fun. Remember, if you have standing water on your lawn from the pool or the sprinkler, just let it sit there. The more the merrier. When there's standing water, there'll be more mosquitoes. Plenty more. Next up is a bit of a hot take, but we're so hyped on it. Let mosquitoes inside. What could go wrong? Just let us inside, please. Thanks. Love you.

[Dana Carvey]

Finally, the number one rule this summer is do not under any circumstances speak to anybody from Oregon. That is literally so cringe, it will ruin the vibe of any get together we might be having. Take it from a mosquito or Orkin. Pros know literally everything about us, period. Don't visit orkin.com for a free estimate today. Now let's go suck some blood. Now let's go suck some blood. Number one with a blood bullet. This episode of Fly on the Wall is presented by Amazon Music.

[David Spade]

Amazon Music is your 1 app for music, podcasts and audiobooks. Download the app today and start listening.

[Jake Johnson]

I've watched YouTube videos of him having lunch with people later where he's just like, stop talking to me, you son of a.

[David Spade]

You're like, Ed Harris is 410.

[Jake Johnson]

You can't tell 311.

[Dana Carvey]

Scorsese one nine with his one good boots on.

[Jake Johnson]

Love. It starts going, I'm not being treated enough with respect that I deserve. And we're like, we agree. And he goes, just. It's right there on my title. I'm a guest of this show and I'm the star.

[David Spade]

So, Dana. Jake Johnson.

[Dana Carvey]

Jake Johnson.

[David Spade]

Most people know him from New Girl. Then he's gone on to do a million things after that.

[Dana Carvey]

Got a new movie on Apple TV called Dink.

[David Spade]

Is it the Dink or Dink? What do you think?

[Dana Carvey]

I don't know. I'll be honest.

[David Spade]

What do you think about the Dink?

[Dana Carvey]

I think it's called Dinky Dinky.

[David Spade]

Do I know? It's definitely Apple tv and I know Fortune Feimster's in it. I say fer everybody's in it.

[Dana Carvey]

Incredible cast. Got Ben Stillers behind it. He's in it. He's got the Ed Harris who's doing comedy for the first time.

[David Spade]

That's a wild.

[Dana Carvey]

He was A very affable, fun guy to have on our podcast. So I'd listen.

[David Spade]

Yeah, he grilled us a little bit too.

[Dana Carvey]

He was curious about us. Like, we're like exotic freaks from the past. So he was asked some big questions. So we got. We love that.

[David Spade]

What are you. Are you real?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. He leaned into David and said, how do you do whatever it is you do?

[David Spade]

Explainable.

[Dana Carvey]

It's unexplained. I can't believe you do what you do. But anyway, it was fun. We laughed a lot.

[David Spade]

Here he is. Jake Jo. Jake Johnson.

[Jake Johnson]

Maybe it's. Is it here?

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, there are other people.

[Jake Johnson]

There we go. And then. Can you make it bigger?

[David Spade]

Y.

[Dana Carvey]

That's what she said.

[David Spade]

You can't say she has said that to me.

[Dana Carvey]

That's a hotel room. Who doesn't have ladybug? What is that? Headboard.

[Jake Johnson]

Random nice women who just help with stuff without being annoyed with me yet.

[David Spade]

I know. I saw there is a third. I've stayed at that hotel, Jake, just to bore you to fucking death.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, this is you the last 10 minutes, Jake. Do you need anything else? Are you ready, Jake?

[David Spade]

Do you have your sip of water?

[Dana Carvey]

We have the lemonade there that you got.

[Jake Johnson]

Everything good?

[Dana Carvey]

Everything good.

[David Spade]

Are you ready for this? This one's going to be a bit of a grind. These guys are kind.

[Dana Carvey]

They don't have a lot to say.

[Jake Johnson]

I listen to your guys show. I've been listening since the. I'm a big fan of both you guys.

[David Spade]

Good job. There we go. That's a good start. I was going to tell you that

[Dana Carvey]

there's what we try to get out of every guest and then we got it.

[David Spade]

Once we get a compliment that we clip, that's.

[Dana Carvey]

Thank you.

[David Spade]

That's our whole clip. So, Dana, do you remember comic Is he. This young man is too young, but Jake Johansson.

[Dana Carvey]

Jake Johansson, Yeah. He grew up. Remember the name San Francisco.

[David Spade]

I keep thinking Jake Johansson when I hear this young man's name. And then I. But I know who he is. I know him. So I didn't want to mess that up. And I thought you would mess it up because you're from San Fran.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, you're old. When you refer to someone I think in their 40s as this young man.

[Jake Johnson]

I was about to say I'm going to be 50 soon. And I love. And I love hearing this young man, Young Turk, coming on a podcast. You know, I'm just. I'm finding it. I'm having a lot of fun, man.

[David Spade]

This fucking ingenue.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, I love Half a century is young.

[Jake Johnson]

I have not been described as a young man in so. And I was such a up as a young man. So I gave a second chance.

[Dana Carvey]

When you guys talk, there's a comic, Little dandy. Thank you, Dana.

[David Spade]

This comic says when he was about 11 years old, he said I would call P.E. he goes, I'm 50. And he goes, now I remember when I was 11, I'd. I'd fake call people and go, hello. And a guy goes, hello, I'm 50. And he have like a fake cane because I'm 50 years old. That's in his head at 11.

[Dana Carvey]

Molly Shannon. Yeah, I'm 50 and I'm yeah, Mike Myers, middle aged man. Like I'm working on it.

[David Spade]

And he was supposed to be 35 or something. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I just saw a photo of Brad Pitt, who's now, I guess 62. And I'm like, that generation has changed decades. If that's 62.

[Dana Carvey]

Couldn't agree more.

[Jake Johnson]

The 60s are different. When I was growing up 60, that was it. You're in another galaxy.

[David Spade]

At 60.

[Jake Johnson]

Brad Pitt's running around smoking weed, looking great. At 60 I'm like, 60s don't seem.

[David Spade]

Everybody rats him out for smoking weed

[Jake Johnson]

because you don't expect it. He's like so handsome, he's talented, he smokes grass, he's like hooking up with cool people. I'm like, yeah, he's a, this is 60s.

[Dana Carvey]

And he says he's 62. Just casually. Yeah, how you doing, man? I'm 62. No, you're right. Look at my day back in my. If you look at old people were old people. Spencer Tracy, Clark Gable, John Wayne, they all died at 60. It was over. Chainsaw.

[Jake Johnson]

One of my favorite things to do is when on Instagram, when I see sitcom actors from when I was growing up, their ages, it'll be the old mailman from next door who's should have been a thousand. And they'll be like, Mike Irving was 45, Archie Bunker was 38 year. And I'm like, everybody was 52. I'm like, Edith's old ass was 52.

[David Spade]

All the golden girls were 20.

[Jake Johnson]

It's disgusting.

[Dana Carvey]

I know.

[Jake Johnson]

I grew up in a time when old people were fucking old people. Now you got got to be like 80 to be like now I'm like, yeah, you're 80. You're getting there.

[David Spade]

Now it's look good, look good, die. There's no like you hope.

[Jake Johnson]

You hope.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, they're heading to death. Uhoh, uhoh, uhoh.

[Jake Johnson]

Unless you get out of our business. And you go to the Midwest, and then you go, oh, yeah, man, you're 52, brother.

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

I got your age.

[David Spade]

I went back to Arizona this weekend. This guy at the store goes, hello, I went to school with you as a year before you. Wait, what does that mean? You're younger than me. And I go, wait a second, are you okay? And they're like, kane.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm like, God, I'm 20th Hollywood reunion or what is this?

[David Spade]

I at the store, I'm like, they're like, we used to have a locker. I'm like, we're in the same generation.

[Jake Johnson]

Stop it. Stop saying that. It's scary. It's so horrible.

[David Spade]

And he's like, well, I'm not gapped up on everything under the sun with your Hollywood Mr. Feelgood doctors. I'm like, yeah, I know. That's me. Every morning.

[Jake Johnson]

Are you taking testosterone and doing all that stuff? Spade. Are you in the Peptides and all that stuff?

[David Spade]

I did two testosterone once. And when my nuts left the building, I said, you know what?

[Jake Johnson]

This ain't worth.

[David Spade]

I don't know if it's worth it. I don't know. Because it wasn't the good.

[Dana Carvey]

Wasn't the good kind.

[David Spade]

It wasn't beating the bad. It wasn't helping enough.

[Jake Johnson]

I'm not. I know I'm never gonna mess with it because I'm so afraid of getting wide face. So, you know, certain guys look at

[Dana Carvey]

like, oh, yeah, dude, HGH as well. Makes the jaw and the head grow. You remember Barry Bonds?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. HGH plus the T. Everything goes like this. A little sick.

[Dana Carvey]

And.

[Jake Johnson]

And look, if you're an athlete, cool. If you're trying to be an actor and all of a sudden your face is different. Come on.

[Dana Carvey]

Who are we talking about? Now the rib cage, too, goes out. HGH gut, you know?

[Jake Johnson]

Wait, there's a thing called hg.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah, look it up. Yeah, it's a famous podcaster. It's just all the rib cage bones start to grow out.

[David Spade]

Jake, bring White Face in.

[Dana Carvey]

They call me White Face.

[Jake Johnson]

You're so good, man. Your face is so wide these days. You're like, dude, I pay for this. And I get shots in my body for this so I can be a little bit stronger.

[David Spade]

I heard steroids would make your jaw get bigger. And is there other things that happens back?

[Jake Johnson]

Acne, some temper stuff? Oh, that's steroids. Testosterone. The thing that's scary about that is once you're on it, you can never get off it.

[David Spade]

Oh, really?

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[David Spade]

Testosterone I gotta make.

[Jake Johnson]

Once you're on it, you can never get off.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I have to go to the doc also.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm good, but Dana looks the best.

[Jake Johnson]

Dana's rip is a great looking man.

[David Spade]

There's a difference between.

[Dana Carvey]

No, I'm not being over 50.

[Jake Johnson]

No.

[David Spade]

You having some zing to your life. And you don't act, like, so fragile. There's some people you see and you go, okay, I see some comics that bless their hearts at the show when I do the Comedy Store this Tuesday, Wednesday, and they're like. They're like a little, you know, it just. The comedy I can't even make fun of because comedy is the one thing where you can keep chugging along and really, until you just can't travel. It's really just about traveling and standing for. Right? Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Remember what Clint Eastwood said. And I have to pay attention to this now. Don't let the old man in. Because when I heard Clint Eastwood was gonna make a movie and he was 63 at the time, I go, really? Now they would let you. And he went on for 30 more years. So you can't look at your birth certificate and go, well, I guess I should start slumping because look at that number.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, wait, I know what I want to. When did you were speaking of the old man? Letting him in.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

What's that story that you worked with Mickey Rooney on a pilot?

[David Spade]

Get him going.

[Jake Johnson]

Sorry. I've watched YouTube videos of him having lunch with people later in his life where he's just, like, talking to me.

[Dana Carvey]

You son of a. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

So mad. I. I've had late nights where I can't sleep, where the YouTube search is just Mickey Rooney letting it rip, exploding

[Dana Carvey]

it live, mad at people. John Mulaney would hire me every week to come to his house and do my Mickey Rooney stories. But really, in a nutshell, just for this podcast, because you listen to the Nathan Lane one who was on the Mickey Rooney show with me, okay? You guys get hit and we get deep into it. Basically, what he said. Said it a hundred times out of the blue. No non sequitur. I was the number one star in the world. You hear me? Bang the world. And exactly like that. Every time. Bang the world.

[David Spade]

You're never fighting him on it. Then he would just keep saying it, and you're like, I. You were. I believe you. You were.

[Dana Carvey]

There's no argument from anybody.

[David Spade]

Nobody.

[Dana Carvey]

But from there, everybody agrees.

[Jake Johnson]

My man, you did it.

[David Spade]

Garland never had air conditioning.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, that was a non sequitur. Down the hallway he's holding court in the makeup room. All I hear is Judy Garland never owned a car. You know why? Because they pumped her so full of drugs, they killed her.

[Jake Johnson]

By the way, going to the Judy Garland stuff. How about during the wizard of Oz, all the little people in the Culver Hotel. Have you guys heard about this?

[Dana Carvey]

We know about the orgies with the dwarfs. Yeah, we've talked about it. Yes. They're never.

[Jake Johnson]

It's amazing.

[Dana Carvey]

It was fest.

[Jake Johnson]

A gambling fest. They all were on the roads, traveling around, and they all got brought to to do the movie. And they were all given per diem and they put them all on a floor in the COVID hotel. All these guys were just. They were all. Each other gambling all the time.

[Dana Carvey]

The Lollipop Guild guys we represent, they're clearly a wreck. If you watch it again, they're clearly we represent.

[David Spade]

You say ere.

[Dana Carvey]

I did. David, he's trying to turn us on.

[Jake Johnson]

He's trying to.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm gonna call my doctor just about that. Trt.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Yeah. How much stuff do I need to be on? Do I need to be on?

[Dana Carvey]

No, you don't. Creatine. Well, creatine.

[Jake Johnson]

You saw me with my shirt off, David. You wouldn't be asking my opinion.

[David Spade]

I saw you in the Dink.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[David Spade]

Did you have to jump that and fall? No. They're not gonna let you do that.

[Dana Carvey]

No, not their golden boy.

[Jake Johnson]

But you know who directed the Dink, which is a movie I really love, is Josh Greenbaum. Dana, who did the doc. You're our show.

[Dana Carvey]

Great. Incredibly likable.

[Jake Johnson]

Smart. Such a talented dude.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. And sweet. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Runs a great set.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

He doesn't have a mean bone. He's like. He must be. Must be happy. You do a take. You see Josh there every time.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. And then the hard part is when he comes and he's not liking it.

[Dana Carvey]

How does he express that?

[Jake Johnson]

Oh, great. Great. You want to try it again? Different.

[David Spade]

You want to try to do something?

[Dana Carvey]

Just do anything you want.

[Jake Johnson]

I would say different than that, though, right?

[David Spade]

Really?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

It's very hard to tell. Fragile. I'm the fragilest. It's very hard to say. If you could just have Stanley Kubrick walk up and goes, that was dog shit. Let's please do something else. Like, this is not working.

[Dana Carvey]

We just do 200 takes.

[David Spade]

Most directors just go try to steer you, knowing everything's so fragile. All actors are, you know, little baby.

[Dana Carvey]

Don't, don't. Didn't they run the camera on you? Didn't they do a Will Ferrell on you at times where they just kind of like, okay, it's digital. We'll give you like three minutes. And you're just sort of do the lines and then you're just like.

[David Spade]

And then do whatever you want.

[Jake Johnson]

You're talking about for Dink.

[David Spade]

Yeah, for you.

[Dana Carvey]

Just as a guy from improv and everything.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. We improvised a ton on it. Sean, the writer who's so funny, was always there. So we always got the script. We always got loose. We kind of cross covered everything. So everybody. We could kind of like live in the scenes.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah. And then you could just have fun.

[Jake Johnson]

You could just have fun. You could try things. You could. Like, we could all find the tone together. The character who plays my sidekick, Aaron Chen, I think he is one of the funniest people I've seen in a long time. I've been a fan of his for years. He's one of those guys where everything he says I find funny.

[David Spade]

So with every scene exposed, so you get. It's like a new guy out there getting big laughs.

[Jake Johnson]

It's a new guy crushing. So you're like, just put everything in a two shot. Let Aaron respond to. If I have like a monologue before the takeout, say, like, if you ever feel like interrupting, just do it. Just see what happens. I will keep pushing everybody.

[David Spade]

The writers should like this because the writers ultimately get the credit. So if they see the dink and like it. Who wrote that? Even if 10 lines are straight from you, it doesn't matter. We do that movies. It's like, give it to the writer. Who cares? Let us do this.

[Jake Johnson]

Who cares? But it's also. We're all on the same exact team.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And we are eventually, when everyone gets their egos out of the way, we're gonna have to put this in front of an audience.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

If nobody's laughing at that screening, we're all gonna hate it. So let's all work together and get those laughs. Get the mo. Like, I think movies, I like a movie that has heart to it. I like a movie that has, like, a story engine. I like the scenes where you got to do some, like, acting, but I also just like the bits.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, you know, I don't. When digital first came in, I was doing this. A crazy movie. I don't have a big resume, but it's like basically just cut it to pieces. So it'd be like Abbott and Costello. Be tight on Abbott. Okay, we're coming around to Costello. So when you said two shot, I thought funny, overlapping, interrupting.

[Jake Johnson]

All I Was just watching a clip of Caddyshack this morning, and I realized there's this whole scene of Chevy Chase in the main Caddy, that whole segment of, like, I got a probe. And he goes like, you on drug. You take drugs every day. I don't know what it could be. That's all. Without any edit. It's a beautiful oner.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, so much shit now if they want to do oners, it's so filmic that all the directors caring about the DP is how it looks.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And you're like, I. I want it to look good, too. Nobody wants to make something for someone's phone if it's not funny. Who cares that it's

[Dana Carvey]

a.

[David Spade]

Let's do another take. Even though it was perfect, because there's Dapple I want to get. And you go, yes. We hit the funny part. I don't care what it looks like.

[Jake Johnson]

It works.

[David Spade]

Move on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But I hate when it gets too choppy. I hate when it's so. Clearly the comedy is all from editing. All the laughs come, like, from the reaction of, like, an extra standing there.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

You're like, yeah, but let the scene

[David Spade]

that was shot on a different day. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And the lighting's weird, but it's like some old lady with purple hair being like, let the performances live or die. And if you like it, you like it. And if not, it's not the movie. Free.

[David Spade]

Listen, you guys know how much I love multitasking. That's what everyone's always stopping me and asking me about. Lately, my secret weapon's been Amazon Music. I used to jump in between three different apps to get through my day because I'm weird. But now Amazon Music is my 1 app for music, podcasts and audiobooks. Yes, you heard it right. Your Amazon Music unlimited subscription now includes access to audiobooks, meaning it does so much more for you without any extra hassle.

[Dana Carvey]

Dana, I've been listening while walking the dog, tackling that endless mountain of laundry, and it's just.

[David Spade]

You're always doing the laundry.

[Dana Carvey]

I do loads and loads of it all day Sundays. Yeah, Sunday's laundry day. Boo. I got 55 of these, and it just fits perfectly into my routine. I recently queued up Project Hail Mary, which was a great movie, but great to listen to, too. Hearing the story come to life in the narrator's voice completely transformed my afternoon chores into an epic space adventure. Jealous?

[David Spade]

Yeah. It's amazing how a great voice performance makes the story feel so special and immersive. And the best part is that you don't need a separate app to dive into your next favorite story. It's all seamlessly integrated right where you already listen. Amazon music is definitely my favorite part of my routine. Music, podcasts, audiobooks, it's all in one app. You know those classic tri colored freezer pops we used to fight over during the scorching summer days? Well, the genius folks at five hour Energy just did something incredible. They completely reimagined that absolute freezer pop classic as a delicious firework freeze five hour energy shot. And let me tell you Dana, it's a game changer for your daily routine. I cracked one open right before recording the show today. Wow. And it's a serious bold flavor explosion in every single sip. You get this incredibly nostalgic combination of juicy cherry, citrusy lime and that sweet candy like blue raspberry we all love. All hitting your taste buds at the exact same time. What do you think?

[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

Were you a producer on this or. Or you're. Yeah. So I figure you're from the beginning talking about all this stuff.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, I came up doing improv and all that stuff.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And then when I started getting in the game a little bit it the goal was always to prod and to make the stuff with the same like with people as opposed to just being an actor for hire. So the jobs I'm going to take, I like being part of the whole group. I did the same thing you and Theo Do Spade, where I've self financed a lot of indies. I like that. I like that.

[David Spade]

Self Reliance.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, I directed that. Yeah, yeah, but those. But also all the movies with Joe Swanberg drinking buddies we did together at a Sun Never Sets. Those are ones we produce, we finance, we put together. So I like that more than it

[David Spade]

could be a fun process.

[Dana Carvey]

What do you say to young people listening to this right now? Like in terms of taking the reins like that. I mean, what kind of budget and what kind of risk? Or was it just exhilarating to go, we'll make it.

[David Spade]

We'll pay for it?

[Dana Carvey]

I mean, David knows now. I mean. I mean, it seems like the nightmare when you're controlled in a movie and, you know, it sucks, and there's no charisma between you and the director, you know, so you're doing it yourself. So you're making your. I mean, how do you. When do you first do that? Is it really bold? You make it for, like, 20 grand?

[David Spade]

Or.

[Dana Carvey]

How do you get into that game?

[Jake Johnson]

Well, it started for theater, where we would go and you would write a show. Like, I was in a group called the Midwesterners, which we were doing, and we would tour the country with it. And so everything was about this little show that we would, like, take to a theater and have, like, nine people in the audience and be like, well, it's nine more than we had yesterday.

[David Spade]

That's right.

[Jake Johnson]

You're, like, building this little.

[David Spade]

Fucking grinding it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Grinding it out. And so I've always viewed movies the same way and TV the same way. So sometimes you jump onto a monster, and it's fully produced by a big studio, and it's fun. But the dink came to be. Sean and I, the writer, were just having lunch, and he pitched the idea. There was nobody on. Stiller liked the idea but wasn't attached. So he and I started developing it. Then Stiller came on board to produce. Then we just built it piece by piece until we had a movie. So even though we didn't finance that one.

[Dana Carvey]

Okay.

[Jake Johnson]

It's a smaller movie that Apple made seem bigger.

[David Spade]

Right.

[Jake Johnson]

Which is.

[David Spade]

But it's a bigger victory that you got together and got it to the point where Ben took it more serious.

[Jake Johnson]

Exactly right. It's me and me and made enough sense.

[David Spade]

It's like, okay, now I like that. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, he pitched to me. He goes, what do you know about pickleball? I said, nothing. He goes, what do you think about tennis? I go, I'm not. I'm not into it. And he goes, so I got the movie for you. And then he told me the arc where it's. My character gets injured. I start playing pickleball to recover. I start playing with these older women. And then he's like, then there becomes a friendship that gets a little bit more than a friendship. And I was kind of going like, yeah. And then he pitched a scene where my character makes a move on her and she Passes. And I thought she was gonna pass because of the age difference. And when he said, and I go, why is she passing? He goes, cause she's not sexually interested in you. I was like, oh, that's not something I heard where, you know, it's a big age difference. And she's like, I can't. And I'm like, who cares about the age difference? So you're older. So what? And she's like, no, it's not that. I. I don't physically want to have sex with you. You grossing me out. So funny to me.

[Dana Carvey]

That's a very funny term because we don't normally see that. They'd be backpedaling. It's not that, but no, no, you get out.

[Jake Johnson]

I don't feel weird because it's me and Mary Steenburgen. Her vibe is, I don't feel weird that I'm three decades older. You naked grosses me out. So I'm used to that scene with, like, Alison Brie and me.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But I'm like, oh, that's so much funnier. And I thought, all right, big third act. We've got that. I'm like, this is enough to build. And then we spent about a year on the script together.

[David Spade]

And then, you know, Mary's very pretty also on top of it.

[Jake Johnson]

She's striking.

[David Spade]

She's great.

[Jake Johnson]

She's so good in the movie.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

She's always as good of a person as I've ever worked with.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. I remember Jack Nicholson. Western was her coming out film in the 70s. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Movie.

[Dana Carvey]

I think so. And she was popped.

[David Spade]

You know, I was like, what was it called, Dana?

[Dana Carvey]

Come on, Heather. Very simple. Jack. That was where Jack, as a cowboy really took to the next level of being able to eat in a movie and make it amazing.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

You know. Well, I get, you know, it's like. It's so fantastic. But what I was going to ask you is, like, these. This cast is pretty stout. I mean, did Apple call him the Big Guns? Are these friends of yours? I mean, Chloe Feynman, Patton Oswald. I mean, Ed Harris.

[Jake Johnson]

Ed Harris was amazing. Yeah. So Apple came on after this was. We made this movie independently, so we just kind of called out. We just called people, asked them to show up, send them the script, and then when it was done, we screened it, and then Apple came on board. So, like, Chloe was, you know, I think I reached out to her on Instagram, to be honest. Ed Harris, I don't know how we got to him, but he was so. It was so fun doing scenes with him because he had never done a comedy, and he was so. You know, Ed Harris is legitimately scary, at least for my generation. Like, I know Ed Harris from the press tour of History of Violence, where you guys have seen that clip where he's like, I don't know what violence is. Did he, like, punches something and throws it? Yeah, like, that's.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, him walking into that coffee shop with the sunglasses is a work of art in itself.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[Dana Carvey]

So with no lines and VGO Morrison, it's like, well, we don't want any trouble. And he's like, yeah, that movie. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

Also, he's. He's old school in the way. That's so great on set. You know, Hollywood has just changed so much. But he's ripping unfiltered cigarettes. And I'm like, thank you for doing this, man. Thank you for unfiltered. And then coming in and then nailing the scene and me being like, this is acting. This is how you do it, man.

[Dana Carvey]

I really saw him throw that for just a second.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. It was like that.

[David Spade]

I would move. I would be scared and feels stupid reading a scene, thinking, he's going, what have I done? You know, because. And you're like, hang on. I don't know it yet, but I'll get there. And he's just like, well, what's really

[Jake Johnson]

embarrassing is when you're yucking it up for your director friend who. I've. Josh and I have been close for years, and our inside jokes have gotten to the point where they're just gross to watch. But I'm sometimes doing bits just for Josh next to Ed Harris. And then Ed Harrison's, like, looking over me, and I'm in the middle of, like, Josh. And then I'm like, I'm gonna be eating supper. Never mind. And you just have to go like this. Humiliating. I'm not like you. I know you hate me, and you should hate me.

[Dana Carvey]

Did he tell any. Did he suddenly go, you know, me and Robert Mitchell, whatever. You know, movie or store. Did he ever regale you with any.

[Jake Johnson]

He was never. He was never that guy. Although I wish he was. But speaking of being that guy now, I got to transition really fast while I got you.

[Dana Carvey]

Sure, you.

[Jake Johnson]

And so the early Farley movies with you guys did together were so important. Like, I loved that, and Farley was the guy for me and you guys together. What was it like? I've heard you guys in interviews being like, he was the funny. But for my generation, it was like, we all wanted to be with him, and Then we all got to be you in our eyes, where you were, like, carrying the thing. And then he's. What was it like? And I've watched all the little documentaries about you two guys together, but what was it?

[David Spade]

Well, I mean, he was sort of a bit of a tornado just at SNL with. He was in love with Dana because he comes.

[Dana Carvey]

I loved him immediately. I said to my wife, I've been on the show five years. When he came around, I said, I invited Chris Farley over. He's new on the cast, you know,

[David Spade]

and he was like, bolt down the lamps and tables.

[Dana Carvey]

Hey, I'm gonna stop in here for a sec. I got a six pack of tall Budweisers. Anyway. Never seemed anything but fun and likable. Sweet. But David. David and Chris were this.

[David Spade]

Okay, yeah. We did Cone Heads, which is the first one. And we were just both in it together, just excited to be in a movie. And Lauren was like, I'm gonna read a list of 37 cast members that will be in this movie. Read it if you want. Adam Sandler, Chris Farley, David Spay, Dan A. So we all, if you watch ConEd, were all peppered through it, but Chris had kind of a funny little boyfriend part. Of course, he was great in it. And then we got to do Tommy Boy, Black Sheep, and then we had another one kind of ready that would have been next. And that's when everything went sideways. But, man. Yeah, everything was just front row, just watching him rehearse, watching him, you know, and you kind of don't know at the time, this won't be forever, because he was a hard partier, but he would show up. I was worried at the beginning, and then I started to go, maybe it's just me. I couldn't do that. I couldn't drink that much, do all that.

[Jake Johnson]

I think. I think in terms of that, the one thing I've learned as a young man who's nearly 50 is when we look back at stuff, it's so clear. But when you are in it, it is not obvious. So people look back at something that happened where they'll be like, nobody did that. You're like, it wasn't clear at the time. Like, I had a dear friend who killed himself. And in looking at it, as soon as he did, I went, yeah, it makes sense.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

He told me every sign for 10 years. I missed every cue. So I know if I was with a guy like Farley, I would go, I can't live and drink like that. But he can.

[Dana Carvey]

He's got a. David, this is a question I've never asked you, but his last year on SNL with you guys, when you and Sandler and he were sort of peaking as a cast, wasn't he kind of clean for a period of time? He definitely did not seem off the reservation on Tom.

[David Spade]

No, he had waves and he was doing good. I think he was off to do Ninja. He got so much money. That did not help.

[Jake Johnson]

Anytime anybody's got any demons, the worst thing, and I now seen it enough. So fame is one thing and my favorite thing is watching it's ugly guys who start sleeping with too many women and all of a sudden you start going like, you're getting too vain for your looks, brother. And then the other one is people with demons who get money. You go like, oh, no, you should have. Your salary should be that of a working class carpenter. Yeah, you shouldn't have this much money, man.

[David Spade]

And he was a working class, you know, Wisconsin guy. And then when it got up to Tommy Boy and Black Sheep weren't a lot of money, but when it got up to like cable guy where they're like, we're gonna have you lead a movie. And then that was 3 million.

[Jake Johnson]

I think he was gonna be the cable guy.

[David Spade]

Yeah. And he had to give that up to do Black Sheep because they.

[Jake Johnson]

How was he treating. How was he treating you then when he found that out, was he pissed or was he fine with it?

[David Spade]

He didn't love it because we were, we were.

[Dana Carvey]

But we were riding off the Tommy Boy.

[David Spade]

We're just like, we're just doing Tommy Boy again with a different title. It's fun. Let's do it. I mean, everyone's fine with it. We all know the scam. We're just gonna be out there acting stupid.

[Dana Carvey]

Why wasn't it Tommy boy too? I mean, Mosley, Fred wrote.

[David Spade]

Fred wrote a good stories, but it was political, whatever. But it just turned into. Once that came into the mix, like we were already almost. You know, we were set with a green. Our movies are greenlit first and then they write them. So Fred wrote it and then it was like, well, he had a two picture deal, I didn't. So he had to do it. And then Paramount's telling me to do it and then Lauren's telling me to do it. And then Chris goes, you know, if. If you don't think it's ready, we can always do it next summer. It's so tough because he had his hair slicked back.

[Jake Johnson]

And I'm like, I'm seeing Your strategy, my king. But I can't play along, obviously.

[David Spade]

It was so obvious that I don't know. I'm going, do you know I know about Cable Guy? And so, so I go, I know I just have to read it. And I just have to say if I think it's close enough, I'll do it.

[Jake Johnson]

If I don't, I say yes, yes.

[David Spade]

But I said. And he's like, yeah. And if it's a no go, that's great. And I'm like, okay, I sort of know where you're quietly steering me. But it was, it was pretty good. And Fred Wolf was one of my best friends and who's writing it. And we would all write together. So that was who all did the first one. And so when we got to the second one and it was already the momentum. We're doing it that summer and there's Sherry Lansing involved from Paramount and it was like. And I read it and I was like, I kind of like this story. And you know, he's like,

[Jake Johnson]

because Cable

[David Spade]

Guy and then went to Jim Carrey, you know, oh, that's Jim. And Jim Carrey got 20. And that was the first time I think anybody got 20 million.

[Jake Johnson]

Oh my God. And he was on a two picture deal. So he just got what, his first deal.

[David Spade]

He got less than me, even worse really because I didn't have a set deal. And I think he made a deal because of. He was in rehab and it was like. And they were. And he was like, can I do anything? I want to do movies. And they're like, we'll do a two picture deal. He's like, I'd love it, please. I'm on the straight and narrow. And he would do great for a long time. I don't remember big problems during Tommy Boy or Black Sheep or anything with, with drinking. It was always like in between and the boredom and the money and the. And wasn't it, you know, everything too famous and too in interesting and everyone wanted to hang out with him. You know, he has had a definitely magnetized people espressos between

[Dana Carvey]

take like 20 of them. Right.

[David Spade]

Well, the first day was bad because we were like, I'm like, I'm no doctor, I don't think you can keep this up a thermos too much. And then just shots of ex. You know, just. But like addicts, you know, they switch over to caffeine and. And then it, you know, I think he got it to where we, we knew how to do a movie after that. We didn't know on Tommy boy, how to pace it out. And we were giving everything in wide shots in Masters, right? And then they push in and we're like, oh, we're still doing this scene. They're like, yeah, everything's unusable so far. I'm like, I didn't know. It's already lunch. We're not using it.

[Jake Johnson]

So tired.

[David Spade]

5:00pm they're like, okay, spade, this is the one we're gonna use. I'm like, what's going on?

[Jake Johnson]

Use the one where my back was facing camera. That was my best stuff.

[David Spade]

You know what's funny is Brian Danahy came in to play his dad and he's like an old. Exactly what you like, movie star.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

Guy from Everyone smokes and he's like, holy. Yeah. So the first. First wide shot, Chris is doing cartwheels. We're all dropping paper, doing our, you know, corny over and over. And then Brian goes, hey, what. What the are we doing? This is a wide shot. Move on. What are we doing? No one's using this.

[Jake Johnson]

No. Yeah.

[David Spade]

He goes, we're gonna use it. We open the scene and we close. Yeah. And he goes, you're. Are you killing these guys? This is what we're doing. No wonder these guys are falling apart. We're both like this because we're flying back and forth, messing out. So exhausted, so. And Farley's obviously being very physical, so he kind of helped tone it down a little for that. Where we started to go, we were more aware. We were just like, doing what we're told. Like another take. Another take. Don't complain. Don't complain. And I've learned how to complain. That's really the big benefit of what I took.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, they're. Farley is Farley.

[Jake Johnson]

It's.

[David Spade]

Everything is advertised.

[Dana Carvey]

Everything.

[David Spade]

And I couldn't take your eyes off them.

[Dana Carvey]

In the trailer, we saw you do some. You went over. Was that you going over the tennis net? And the wide shot falls. Are you going back to you and loving Chris Farley?

[Jake Johnson]

Well, so. So no. So the. When I. When I came up, my dream was Farley. And then when I moved to. And then. But I got a question for you too, Dan. I want to get to. Before we go, but when we. When I came to LA, I was 27 or 28. I had done a lot. I did a lot of years on stages and I didn't have a commercial agent. And when I got out to la, I was a caterer and I went to a big party at Endeavor, one of the big places in 2004, and all the big celebrities were there, and I was catering, and I realized I'll never compete with, like, the big crazy funny. I was like, everybody's type is so defined that if I'm, like, just chubby, I'm like, you can't just be, like, chubby and sweaty and be the big guy. That was like, that's a 300 pounder who does ballet. He's going to beat you. So you. For me, that beginning was starting to hone in of, like, all right, well, where is my zone? And so for something like the dank. What I love about it is, and why I love that big ensemble is I like carrying something from the beginning to the end and making sure it tracks. And then I like people coming in and crushing. I like going from, like, a scoring guard to a point guard. I like both equally.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, definitely. You hate that. That's thrilling when someone comes in a cameo and hits it and, like.

[Jake Johnson]

And they're being so funny.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

When you're sitting there and you're like, oh, my God. And it's why I like producing, because I don't feel, as an actor, one of us is gonna pop and get a huge opportunity. There's a million projects now. So, like, that old world of, like, we're all competing for one slice of pie, I'm like, that's over. Nobody's eating any of this pie.

[Dana Carvey]

By the way, how tall are you? How tall are you?

[Jake Johnson]

5:10.

[Dana Carvey]

Okay, so. Well, I was just thinking in terms of physicality, Chris. Chris was like, five, six, probably.

[Jake Johnson]

Chris Farley.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. He's not tall. He's just big. He was so he.

[Jake Johnson]

Chris Farley was 5 6, don't you think, David?

[David Spade]

I would say 5, 7, 5, 8, maybe at the back.

[Dana Carvey]

I was definitely taller than him, but, you know, you can if you're. He wasn't. If you're tall, it's much harder to Those Pratt Falls, like Chevy or something.

[David Spade]

Totally.

[Jake Johnson]

You know, by the way, Chris Farley being 56 is the key.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I think he was. I. I don't want to go on record, but I kind of thought maybe 5, 7.

[Jake Johnson]

He is so one of the most likable guys I've ever watched on screen. Just got more likable.

[David Spade]

You're like, Ed Harris is 410. You can't tell.

[Jake Johnson]

311.

[Dana Carvey]

Scorsese, one nine. With his boots on.

[Jake Johnson]

With his boots on. Six foot ten. It's Hollywood's crazy.

[Dana Carvey]

It is true. Pacino is five' five. Oh, I see. But yeah, Chris Farley Was something.

[David Spade]

Does Ed Harris ever go, what if you kicked me in the nuts and I fell off a ladder? And you're like. In this scene, he's like, I'm just trying to brainstorm. And you're like, what if you had to tell him his ideas weren't funny? That would be horrible.

[Jake Johnson]

Never. Well, what it was more so was Ed really sticks to the script. And, you know, I'm a believer in

[David Spade]

stick to old school.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

But once you. Once you get it and you know, when you're talking about doing stuff in the widespread, I'm. I'm really into the shots. So once we've gotten my single saying the lines three different ways, if we're shooting again with the same shot, I feel, why not give another option?

[Dana Carvey]

It's an andor. Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And so you already got the other ones. But what would be scary is making direct eye contact with Ed where we're very close, and not saying that I'm going to go off book.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh.

[Jake Johnson]

And saying experimental tone stuff that a lot didn't make the movie.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And seeing a man's eyes as you're doing a bit that isn't landing in front of a crew of 80 being like, I hate you.

[Dana Carvey]

What are you doing?

[Jake Johnson]

Why are you doing this? I'm trying to think of my next line. Why are you talking about gators in Florida? And then afterwards going, what was that? And you go, like, I just thought I would try. And he's like, what?

[David Spade]

Oh, how sickening to hear. What was that?

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Or his face just does it. He just goes like this. And Josh goes like, I liked it. I would say, let's do another one like that. And I would be like, you know

[David Spade]

when Meryl Streep would try to pull that on me?

[Jake Johnson]

Imagine them on the Deer Hunter going, let me just throw one out for me.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

I'm gonna do something with this.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Instead of saying Mao, I'm gonna say, mo.

[Jake Johnson]

Try this. Let me try this lighter.

[Dana Carvey]

That was from the Deer Hunter. If anyone's paying attention,

[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

Dell.com deals comedy royalty Kate McKinnon returns as Queen Mortuana and Heads Will Roll Heir Apparent, the highly anticipated sequel to Audible's fan favorite original comedy series. She's flanked once more by co star Emily Lynn and a new star studded ensemble including Richard Kind, Lori Metcalf, Jimmy Fallon, Megan Mully, Sam Richardson and Carrie Coon, plus an extensive cast of comedy greats. Seriously extensive. This is wall to wall comedy at the highest level. When we last left our gloriously unhinged Queen and her Raven sidekick JoJo, the unlikely besties had fled to the woods for a simpler life. Well, it did not last. Queen Mo is back on the throne, an heir apparent and facing her greatest challenge yet. Produce an heir before her 40th birthday or lose everything and spend eternity as keeper of the menstrual area.

[Dana Carvey]

It's a very sticky sitch. Meanwhile, JoJo's botched wing enhancement surgery turns her into a toad, leading to unexpected interspecies romance and a choice between royal duty and normal life. With her throne on the line, Mo and JoJo embark on an increasingly unhinged scheme to secure succession. Part medieval mayhem, part razor sharp social commentary, Heads Will Roll Heir Apparent is fantasy comedy for the ages. It has everything trad wives, Polycules, Sasquatch mercenaries, milk people, toad on mole romance, a child named Barbara. Seriously, everything.

[David Spade]

David, when was the last time you heard of a child named Barbara? Well, don't miss a moment of Kate McKinnon and the killer cast and heads will Roll. Heir apparently see the child or seed the throne. Listen to Heads Will Roll heir apparent, available now on audible. Go to audible.com headsville rollseries to start listening today.

[Jake Johnson]

And then carvey. Just to go to you for a second. Sorry that I'm doing this, but, you know, I've just watched you guys for too many years as a fan. And you and Myers, for your. First of all, you on SNL was right. My wheelhouse house. When I was coming, it was like, you. You and Hartman, you guys were just the kings. And then when you guys did Wine's World, I was part of the age where it exploded, the universe of comic.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, you'd be the right age.

[Jake Johnson]

It was. I remember watching it being like. It was like a before and after, where you were like, oh, we have this in our world now.

[Dana Carvey]

Wow.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, that's very nice to hear.

[Jake Johnson]

You know what I mean? Like, there's, like, certain things that, like, for every generation, for my group, we were all those little hacks being like, swing. The amount of times somebody dramatically did a swing in school. What was that experience? The moment you knew it really hit. What was the real dynamic with you and Mike? Like, there was all this stuff of, like, they're so great together then. They weren't. I was like. All that stuff I've always tried to find, I'm so interested in.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, well, we. You know, I wasn't. We weren't really. We were just in a sketch, you know, together, and you're in someone else's sketch. You. It's kind of. It's their production. Basically. All he said to me was, you'll be my sidekick. Your name's Garth. And you. And you dig Wayne.

[David Spade]

Right?

[Dana Carvey]

So that was it. So I saw his thing. He was gonna have a brown wig, so I just went with blonde. And then it was the character that I did, the. The tactile. This guy that was based on my brother Brad, which you would see in the very first sketch I did on snl. I did kind of that character. So I just used that. Put the glasses on. Put it on. And then we're in the movie. And it was getting used to that. There was some conflict over, what are we, Abbott and Costello? You know? But they let me kind of go in and kind of weave in little things for Garth throughout the film. But it was Wayne's World. And then it did feel good. You know, here's going to what you're talking about filming. We didn't have much time. So we get on the top of the car, we're going with bugs. Are you attracted to Bugs Bunny with Bugs, Bunnies in a dress, you know that thing. It was a throwaway. 45 minutes, mostly two shots. Then the sequel. We had like two days, you know, 25 angles, you know, the money. Really poisonous. Yeah. They. They built this Wayne and Gar's loft. And it was like a half million dollars comedy.

[David Spade]

It. Yeah, because you have the first one

[Dana Carvey]

totally quick and easy. Penelope's fierce. When I was doing a little piece of business that Cor, she'd say, okay, what are you going to do here? Or do what someone are going to do? She goes, could you do it five seconds faster? That was the only direction from her. So I can keep it in the movie. But we. We were shocked when it opened door big and then kept going week after week. And the fan mail was stacking up and awards were being sent to us and stuff. Sort of a fever dream, you know. Basically. Yeah.

[David Spade]

I would walk by Dana's mailbox at SNL by the PA where you check in on the 17th floor, and everyone had a cubby hole.

[Dana Carvey]

Spade, Barley, Sandler, Snyder, like five letters.

[David Spade]

And well, Dana's was smashed in with all these letters from fans.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, then they brought in a barrel, I think, to flow Mike and I,

[David Spade]

and they're like, spade, can we borrow your cubby? Just to put some overflow.

[Jake Johnson]

Like crazy.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. And it was. I just really liked the character.

[Jake Johnson]

Together were a nearly perfect duo because

[Dana Carvey]

they complimented each other.

[Jake Johnson]

It was the same thing that happens in scenes to this day where you go like when two people are playing the same rhythm or the same game, they can work. But when you have a natural opposite. Yeah, it's literally stuff that you know, if you go back to you at Farley or you and Myers, when I'm. When we're putting the ding together. When I was looking for the sidekick, the reason it's Aaron Chen is we don't share the same frequency ever.

[David Spade]

Yeah, it's different.

[Jake Johnson]

So yeah, you're sharing somewhat of the same frequency. It's fun. But it's now a hangout scene.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

I was like, I really like it when it's not when it's these two characters like one another, but they're just plain opposite. They're not. It's almost like they're on different planets even though the scene's working.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

For me, that's how you get re. That's how you can be in a two shot and live. Even the way both people are listening should be funny because you're like, they Even listen differently.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, and that's. That's Abbott and Costello. That's Lewis and Martin. That's, you know, Laurel and Hardy. And then obviously Spade and Farley, you know, just different.

[Jake Johnson]

What do you. What did you guys think? The glue that made Phil Hartman. Phil Hartman is like an actor. So obviously, you know, people talk about him or my generation talks about what made him great, and they'll say, you know, he fully committed. He could do a little bit of everything. But what would you guys say in terms of, like, as an actor? Like, what was it about Phil that you could kind of take from and go forward, like, if you had to, working with it? Because I feel like I can't. I don't really know what people are like to act with unless I'm in a scene with them. Because you could feel in someone's eyes who's present, who's thinking about the next thing they're gonna say, who's aware of the cameras. And then certain people you step in a scene with and you go like, oh, you're a fucking goldmine to act with. What was that experience working with him, being in scenes with him that kind of made Phil Hartman. Phil Hartman and you. Your guys's opinion?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, for me, I had never done sketch comedy until I got on snl. I'd only done standup, you know, so Phil, in the very first sketch, is playing a game show host. And so. And he was 38, and he was the king of the Groundlings. He was a legend, but he was like, I don't know if I want to do snl. But he was already so locked in and so confident and just knew exactly what he was doing and hit it every time. And then Jan Hooks was really skilled, too, and they had a lot of stuff together. So I just learned a lot from. I was doing more Flight of Fancy characters with wigs and voices and trying to land those ways. But with Phil, we called him the glue because he kind of. Whatever he wanted, he could do it. And one of the most fun things I ever did was Johnny Carson with Phil as Ed McMahon. That was just so much fun, because talk about opposites. I wasn't. For the first time on the show. I'm not really trying to be funny. I'm just trying to say, sit in that attitude. A gentleman. Ch. And then he, you know, corrects. It was a perfect rhythm of funniness. So Phil, you know, just, you know, think about him all the time, you know, just. Just a genius.

[David Spade]

I. I remember Dana more like him walking around 17, while writing and not having a care in the world, got his fisherman magazine. Well, guys, how are you? And then you're like, phil, I'm writing this thing. Can you play Russian? Russian accent. He's like, yeah. He was the least stressed of all of us because he was so good. He'd go to read through it, 44 sketches. Okay, here we go. And then he's good in all of them. He's like, all right, I'm gonna take off. Go eat. And you go, are you. It's just. It's A, confidence, talent. And B, it was sort of like just so natural to him. When others. Me, we had to work hard, you know, you had to really get into. But he was.

[Dana Carvey]

He was. He was a Renaissance man. He didn't really about show business that much. Even though he's feeling at it. He'd be looking at Evinrude. See this Evinrude motor here?

[David Spade]

That's a 450.

[Dana Carvey]

And he bought scuba gear. He became a pilot, bought a plane. He wanted me to go on the plane. I got. I. I can't with single engine. Lovitz went with him. We went to Catalina. So Phil's a pilot. He's got two boats, the Boston Whaler. He goes, come on and see my sailboat. And he's. We're sailing, and it's a beautiful day in la. And then we see smoke plumes coming from the city. It was the Rodn King riots. Well, we better get back to the doc, fellas.

[Jake Johnson]

You know, Love said one of the best bits of a. He did an episode of New Girl with me, and Max Greenfield and I were in scenes with him, and he. He was just running the show with bits, and Max and I were just kind of overtired and laughing way too much. And then Lovett starts going, I'm not being treated enough with respect that I deserve. And we're like, we agree. And he goes, just. It's right there on my title. I'm a guest of this show, and I'm the star. I've not been able to see guest Stark. I'm like, right, he's our guest, period.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And us.

[David Spade]

He scores and everything, and he comes with ideas. So if you're ready for it, he will. He will switch it up.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, he's another one of those. You know, there hasn't been another John Love. I mean, just wherever he came, that

[David Spade]

voice, those personalities in that old snl. Yeah, John. It was hard actually being there when I was, you know, got there. I'm like, I did kind of know not everyone is this good. Like, Right. Farley obviously jumps out, but there's Mike, and Dana Dennis is one of my favorite comedians ever. Nealon's the king of that dry. So everywhere I'm going around, I'm like. Like, it's Chris Rock's unbelievable standup. So I got out of there, and I'm like, at least the good news is not everyone is this good, because now I have a chance every show.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

You can't go, oh, some people are just okay at everything, you know, and totally. But when you're. It makes you try to be better. Because everyone was just good writer, good performer.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes. I had that. When I first moved to. When I first moved to la, the first thing I did was a sketchbook called Derek and Simon on hbo. And Bob Odenkirk was the director.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, so funny, Jake.

[Jake Johnson]

I love Bob. I loved Mr. Show.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

That was the beginning. Incredible. Mr. Show exploded my brain.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

And when he would give direction was the beginning of me being like, oh, there's levels to this game. And I'm just at, like, the improv Olympic. Because you would look around at the improv Olympic, and I'd be like, there's a lot of hacks here. Like, I think I'm gonna make it.

[David Spade]

You know what you do, Jay? Is it like, if you're. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but, like, when I would be on at dinner with these guys at the show and, like, you in that situation, and Bob was a writer with me and Conan and Greg Daniels, these guys. So I'm thinking of stuff, and then I get to the point where I go, oh, no. If I'm gonna comment on this dinner joke, I have to do the joke after that joke, because these guys are all seeing that one coming. And so you start to go, they're at a different level of a game.

[Jake Johnson]

Yes.

[David Spade]

And I'm like, oh, I was funny with my friends. This is different. Everyone's too quick. And you start to go. So you start thinking of weirder ideas for sketches because you go, everyone's gonna yawn. I'm gonna tell Smiggle that. And he'll be like, ah, right. And then he goes, that. I don't know. I don't know if I'd write that. And you go, oh, that was my great idea this week. Okay. But then you start to go, oh, I have to get. I just have to get better.

[Jake Johnson]

And what you're learning what I like about it and what. Yes. What you just said. There was why I fell in love with LA so much. And I'm not an LA hater. I love it. But it was for me, when I got out to LA and I saw real talent, I was like, oh, if I want to play this game, I have to keep getting better. And that is a thing that I'm like, it's so exciting to go. As long as you want to play, if you want to seat at the table, you have to keep improving. Because, yes, there's a lot of hacks that you don't know how they get certain things, but then there are other people you're like, that is playing at a high level and thinking at a high level.

[David Spade]

Odenkirk's a great example.

[Jake Johnson]

He's. And he's so sneaky about it. You would, like, say something, he would laugh, and you go, it's really funny. You know what you could do? And then he would pitch you something that was so much smarter. And you go, like, I would like to do that, my man.

[David Spade]

And he's from Mr. Show. So you're like, this is the guy that's doing all the ones I'm laughing at.

[Jake Johnson]

So he's the guy doing the thing that I love. And that was a great beginning to go. And now it's like a journey to. You find that talent and then hook into it for as long as you can. And you're like, oh, when you get to be around somebody who's got that, you're like, like, what a joy the game can be.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, yeah, you're. You took. I mean, the path you've taken to get where you're at is very cool that you. You didn't wait, you know, you just did it on your own. And. And the fact that you're producing this movie, I don't know, it's very admirable. It's really smart. And I agree with that. My first time at a comedy show, period at Berkeley, when I was 20 years old, just open mic, 20 people in the audience. Robin Williams was the third guy up before Mork and Mindy. The first three came up. I thought, I started to make some

[David Spade]

notes, I might be able to do this.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. And then he came up and I literally folded it up, the notes I had and put it in my pocket because I thought, maybe there's 300 of these guys. But every time he came to visit, I go, I've got to get better.

[Jake Johnson]

What you start doing, at least for me, is you start loving people like that.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

You're like. You're the reason I'm still like, this game can be really great. But then once you've hit a few of those, like, early on goals, money.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

You start going like, why am I playing it right?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Jake Johnson]

What is the thing? And you go like, oh, there's something to getting better, working hard, being it. Like, even if the whole project doesn't

[David Spade]

work in the vicinity of these guys. Yeah. Like, if you can sit and talk to Robin Williams and have him chuckle at something and a half hour, you go, her. Am I even in the vicinity of something that you would think is funny? Like, that's. That's the weird thing is you go, I think I'm getting closer to the people. I think you're great. That kind of thing.

[Dana Carvey]

That's.

[David Spade]

Yeah. And it's exciting. Always people better.

[Dana Carvey]

Once you. Once you cross the threshold of, like, this is my job. I make a basic wage. I have an apartment. After that, it's like, it's different. It's like trying to catch the wind. Sorry for the analogy. But you. You can always wind down comedy. Something could always be juicier and better and just, you know, so it is a game that never gets boring, really. You know, I mean, you sound very excited about your movie. You're excited.

[Jake Johnson]

Well, I think, you know, honestly, I. What I try to do in my career is do a nice mix of all different types of. Types of movies and types of projects and Dink as a movie. We did what we wanted to do. We wanted to make a movie that almost felt like yacht rock of a movie, if that makes sense. Like, I wanted it to be enjoyable. I wanted it to be funny. I wanted it to be easy to watch. I didn't want any scenes where you're like, we're gonna push the audience here.

[David Spade]

You know, Hang on, audience.

[Jake Johnson]

But there's a lot, you know, the last few years of like, like what comedians have become and what comedy is. And I'm like, I do believe it is important. I do not believe it is, like, as important as it all seems right now. I believe that comedy is just a what it was for me when I was growing up. It's a great thing to turn on and be distracted and have a great hour and a half. When I watched Cheers growing up, I wasn't like, wow, I'm really learning a lot about life and politics, either the left or the right. Like, thank you for teaching me all those conspiracy theories. Or, you know, thank you for showing me how bad everyone. It's like, it made me laugh.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, and it's like a different world.

[David Spade]

You're like, fine.

[Jake Johnson]

No, nothing. Just a movie that you turn. And that's why I was happy the IP is pickleball. Because I'm like, what could be dumber than pickleball as the ip? We're making a fun movie and so we did. So I'm like, so proud of it, happy for people to see it.

[David Spade]

Well, you're like the first guy to tackle it and it's great. It's July 24th. Apple TV, which I just did something with. They're great over there. They know what they're doing. Fortune is in it. Who's great? Mary Steenbergen, of course.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. And of course, Andy Roddick. He got him as your nemesis.

[Jake Johnson]

Pat Oswald. So funny.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, he's all Chris Parnell employed.

[David Spade]

Feynman.

[Dana Carvey]

Got us.

[David Spade]

Got it. Pretty stacked.

[Jake Johnson]

Yeah. Everybody comes in and crushes.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Great.

[Dana Carvey]

Congratulations.

[David Spade]

We'll look for it and appreciate it. And thanks for all the nice things you said.

[Dana Carvey]

And yeah, we like when people ask us questions.

[Jake Johnson]

It was fun chatting with you guys. Good meeting.

[David Spade]

All right, listen, if you're enjoying the fly on the wall, of course, hopefully you are. Click, follow. We don't want to be desperate, but obviously smash that God dang button on your favorite podcast app, leave a review, a good one, Leave a five star rating, nothing else, and maybe even share an episode with a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. Dana, what do you think?

[Dana Carvey]

I'm going to tell you this right now. Hear me now, Believe me later. Flying the Wall, Believe it or not, is presented by Odyssey and executive produced by, hold for it, Dana Carvey and David Spade or David Spade and Dana Carvey. We don't write this stuff. Heather Santoro, Greg Holtzman and Leah Rees Dennis. The show is edited by Evan Cox with production support from Phil Sweetek. Talent Production and Booking by Sophia Lepe, 14.