RE-RELEASE - Bob Odenkirk

Summary

Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade

Episode: RE-RELEASE - Bob Odenkirk

Release Date: August 7, 2025

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Hosts: Dana Carvey and David Spade
Guest: Bob Odenkirk
Presented by: Audacy
Available on YouTube: @flyonthewallpod

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1. Introduction of Bob Odenkirk (02:38 - 04:16)

Dana Carvey and David Spade warmly welcome Bob Odenkirk, highlighting his multifaceted career spanning from comedy to action films. They reminisce about knowing Bob since the 1980s and express excitement over his role in the action movie Nobody and its upcoming sequel.

Notable Quote:
Dana Carvey (03:00): "We knew him in the 90s, too."

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2. Bob Odenkirk's Career Journey: From SNL to Acting (04:16 - 09:25)

The conversation delves into Bob's early days in show business, his tenure at Saturday Night Live (SNL), and his transition into acting. Bob shares anecdotes about living with Gilbert Gottfried and interactions with other comedians, emphasizing the camaraderie and challenges faced during that era.

Notable Quotes:
Bob Odenkirk (06:13): "It's like a really wonderful thing to get to just hang out with people."
David Spade (08:01): "I remember going to that improv... It was so."

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3. Experiences at SNL and Writing Challenges (09:25 - 20:45)

Bob reflects on his time as a writer at SNL, detailing the intense environment and the struggle to balance creativity with the show's demanding schedule. He compares his experiences writing for Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad, highlighting the contrasting pressures and collaborative dynamics.

Notable Quotes:
Bob Odenkirk (12:23): "Comedy, drama. I'm halfway through it."
Bob Odenkirk (19:03): "I love them all, by the way."

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4. Influences from Monty Python and Early Comedy Inspirations (37:42 - 43:50)

Bob discusses the impact of Monty Python on his comedic perspective, sharing how their intelligent and silly humor resonated with him during his formative years. He contrasts this with the more traditional comedy of the 1970s, explaining how Python's approach provided comfort and validation for his worldview.

Notable Quotes:
Bob Odenkirk (38:06): "Monty Python was, for me, the thing that spoke about how I looked at the world."
Bob Odenkirk (39:13): "They were very smart and they're very silly."

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5. Making of "Nobody" and Its Sequel: Balancing Comedy and Action (24:14 - 31:32)

The trio discusses Bob's foray into action cinema with Nobody. Bob explains his dedication to embodying a relatable and vulnerable action hero, contrasting it with typical genre stereotypes. They explore the creative process behind the film, including editing challenges and the infusion of genuine emotion into action sequences.

Notable Quotes:
Bob Odenkirk (26:39): "I'm going to look like middle life crisis, loser, pathetic."
Bob Odenkirk (28:12): "There’s a fantasy wish fulfillment that I could deliver on."

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6. Personal Stories and Reflections on Comedy Writing (44:00 - 54:27)

Bob shares personal stories about writing for Dennis Miller on SNL and the challenges of contributing effectively in a high-pressure environment. He highlights his collaboration with Robert Smigel and the importance of perseverance and authenticity in comedy writing.

Notable Quotes:
Bob Odenkirk (47:34): "The statue of limitations on respecting Bob Hope for his earlier work ran out today."
David Spade (50:26): "They think they're good because he doesn't."

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7. Reflections on Childhood and Personal Struggles (33:09 - 42:08)

Bob opens up about his challenging childhood in Naperville, Illinois, detailing his father's struggles with alcoholism and the instability it brought to his family life. He connects these experiences to his passion for comedy, which became a source of solace and a way to cope with his environment.

Notable Quotes:
Bob Odenkirk (40:14): "Life was extremely unstable at that point..."
Bob Odenkirk (41:16): "He went through the window and landed like 15ft outside the car."

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8. The Power of Film vs. Television (34:05 - 36:18)

The discussion shifts to the unique impact of films compared to television shows. Bob and the hosts explore how movies create deep, personal connections with audiences in a single, immersive experience, unlike the prolonged and sometimes fragmented nature of TV series.

Notable Quotes:
Bob Odenkirk (35:41): "Movies just kind of grab you and take you on that one ride."
Dana Carvey (36:18): "The power of film more than ever now is turning off the cell phone."

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9. Closing Thoughts and Final Reflections (55:43 - 65:49)

As the episode wraps up, Bob reflects on his contributions to SNL and his growth as a comedian and writer. The hosts express their appreciation for Bob's honesty and the depth he brings to the conversation. They share light-hearted moments and express a desire to continue their long-standing friendship and collaboration.

Notable Quotes:
Bob Odenkirk (64:45): "I've learned so much about how to write a sketch."
Dana Carvey (65:00): "You kind of beat up."

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Conclusion

In this engaging episode, Dana Carvey and David Spade converse deeply with Bob Odenkirk about his journey through the entertainment industry, from his early days at SNL to his acclaimed roles in television and film. Bob's candid reflections on his personal struggles, creative processes, and the evolution of comedy provide listeners with invaluable insights into the life of a versatile and dedicated performer. The trio's natural chemistry and shared history make for a compelling and heartfelt discussion that resonates with both fans and newcomers alike.

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Listeners are encouraged to watch the full episode on YouTube @flyonthewallpod and subscribe for more insightful conversations with entertainment's finest. For questions or to engage with the hosts, reach out via [e-mail].

Transcript

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[David Spade]

Robert Odenkirk.

[Dana Carvey]

That's one of our favorite guests because we we we've known him forever, since the 80s. And then he comes out in Nobody, and he plays an action star. We knew him in the 90s, too.

[David Spade]

And going forward, I knew him in the 90s. God damn.

[Dana Carvey]

And so he's got. Next week he comes out and Nobody two, Nobody, too.

[David Spade]

I saw this billboard and I think he talked about a little bit on here. It was great. You know, we love Bob. For him to spin into this is crazy. And then to get a sequel, that's how, you know, it was a success. I saw the first one, I will see the second one. Lot of fun. And also he's just funny anyway, but he gets to play this, which I'm so jealous, you know, I know.

[Dana Carvey]

And he, we. We talk about during this podcast how, how he, how funny he knows it is that first he becomes a great TV star, Better Call Saul, and now he's an action movie star. Later in his career, where he had all this. He'll go over it in the episode about his career and stuff. And we laughed a lot and how.

[David Spade]

He just gets us off the ground. Because if tomorrow, Dana, I said, I want to do an action movie, no one's just handing me a budget to do an action, you know, you have to sort of. Plus, I'm so fragile. But you have to sort of figure out a way to get that across. But he does a lot of training. Well, I'll tell you. I'll tell you anyway.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, it's just great. The sound effects where you turn your shoulder and you hear that crunch. You know, he does it great. I mean, because also he's at heart, he's a comedian, you know, and then he's an actor. So it all combines. So that'll be good. But this episode, I love one of my favorites. So hope you enjoy it.

[David Spade]

Oh, wait. I have a great. I have a great beginning ready. Here we go. Robert John Odenkirk was born in Benren, Illinois, to Barbara and John. Then you got snl, Wikipedia, all there is to it. That's really a big jump.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Well, it's. That's all that matters.

[Dana Carvey]

Birdie told me at this morning. At a given point, he said everybody knew Bob Odenkirk was the funniest guy in Chicago. Someone told me that today when I was doing my research at a. At some point in time, his initials are R S. Oh, geez. Robert.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Robert thought that. Robert thought that, but I don't think anyone else thought that.

[David Spade]

And what did Chicago vote on that?

[Dana Carvey]

It was common knowledge.

[Bob Odenkirk]

No, they picked someone else. Yeah, Larry. Larry oh, what's his name? He's a stand up in Chicago. Larry Farley. Oh, no, he was actually really funny. The cable guy comic who did Zanies all the time. Dr.

[David Spade]

I should know this Chicago guy.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And he never, never left the Chicago circuit. You know who's really funny is a guy named Mike Toomey, also a Chicago.

[Dana Carvey]

Who just stayed there. We had Will Durst. Yeah, we had San Francisco, you know. Yeah, yeah, just.

[Bob Odenkirk]

They like it. Yeah.

[David Spade]

Some people don't want to branch out. They just, they do well there. They make money there and they just stay.

[Bob Odenkirk]

That's right. That's right. And then.

[David Spade]

And it's okay.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Like the town, they get plenty of work, they get married and have kids and they.

[David Spade]

And they don't go crazy like the rest of us.

[Dana Carvey]

And they're local stars. Right. They go on the top radio show. Anyway, Bob, how are you? How are you? This is what I would ask you if we were at a restaurant. I'd say, bob, how are you? Yeah, just generalized so good, because I'm.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Talking to you guys.

[Dana Carvey]

God, that's the best answer I've ever gotten. Thank you.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I really, I really love that you asked me to do this and that I get to hang out with you because it's true. It's like I listen to podcasts, to listen to my friends talk to her, their voices and. Because we don't get to do anything either because we're working or Covid fucked us up for two years or, you know, or, you know, just lives. You get separated by having families and.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And stuff. And it's just a really wonderful thing to get to just hang out with people. And I've been listening a lot to the Gilbert Gottfried podcast, which has been so, so entertaining, even though I didn't know Gilbert very well. But a lot of people I do are on that, you know, and he just was.

[David Spade]

Yeah. You know, Gilbert, you know, when I worked with the funny boys. Do you remember them? The comedy team.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[David Spade]

Jim Valle and Jonathan Schmock, both funny on their own. And they wrote together and performed. And so they were the guys that got me in the improv. Louis got me in the Comedy Store. And I didn't make it. I was 20 and the funny boys got me the improv and I did make it. And when they. And I stayed on Jim Valle's couch. And then he goes, I'm leaving for a week, but someone's gonna stay here. And I go, and it's like, hello. It was Gilbert Gottfried in his underpants. And he just Sat eating Cocoa Puffs and I had a roommate for a week. And I did. I was like, who's this man? I didn't. You know, it's very weird to live with someone you don't know. And so I don't know him well like you, Bob, but I did get to spend a week just hearing him. Then I'd see him out and about and he was so, you know, I just say what everyone else said. Very, very interesting brain. And it sounds like very funny.

[Dana Carvey]

Gilbert would share some certain sensibilities, Bob, you know, the way he deconstruct. I mean, his, his andro clay bit, his bad impre. They were just so funny. And he's just.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, I mean, I certainly appreciated the hell out of him. You know, he was. I only would see him around in New York, actually. And you probably did too, at clubs. You know, when I did snl, you guys probably don't know this, but I would go because you probably didn't even know. I did some standup once in a while. But I would do Sunday night at the Improv, which is not a. You know, it was kind of a sad club, but it, for me, for me, it was like I just get a couple laughs. And it just was like, it made me feel so much better after my week of getting the shit kicked out of me. And just to even get a few laughs on that stage meant a lot to me. It like charged me up for the week ahead. And so I would see him and Larry David and those guys around that club. Yeah, it was interesting.

[David Spade]

Well, those are hard earned laughs. I mean, when you're by yourself and you walk up and just get a couple laughs, that means a lot.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, yeah. And. But it gave me a little boost that I needed. And when standup is giving you a boost, you know, you're in a hole.

[David Spade]

I remember going to that improv. Dana, this is stupid, but. And we'll get to Bob in about 40 minutes. But what I did is I used to. I would come from Arizona and they said I was a standup. And my buddies said he knows this guy Gary Grant that can book you gigs. So I'd fly the crummiest airline. I'd stay at Columbia with my friend. I would take my suitcase with props.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah.

[David Spade]

And I would get my New York coat in quotes, which was my heavy, like, you know, like winter coat I would never wear in Arizona. It looked like a duster. It looked like Young Guns. So then I'd walk to the subway, take the subway to 44th walk to the improv. Wait until they assign me some comedian. I remember this guy was 36 and he had a Nova. And I go, if I'm still doing this at age 36, please kill me, because I was 20. And then we drove to like bf packies or somewhere in Jersey. This is how you did it. I do a set bomb. I would get maybe 60 bucks, come home, maybe spring for a cab fair, because it's too late and scary to do the subway and do that for two weeks, and I'd clear 500. And it was great. But I got to see the improv and I thought the improv I'd always meet at the improv was the point. But I. It was so I always heard about it. And I go in there and the stage is like 4 inches high. It's like not that big of a deal.

[Bob Odenkirk]

You know what was interesting about that when I first went there was they had that wall of photographs when you came out of the showroom into the bar. And in those photographs were stuff from the 60s and 70s, and there's Andy Kaufman and there's, you know, probably Jerry Seinfeld's up there. Then there's a guy juggling and there's a singer. And. And I asked, I don't know the. I don't think I asked Silver, who ran that club at the time, but I asked probably the bartender or somebody. What's with the singer and what. What is this juggler doing? And. And they said, well, that's what the club used to be. That's what all clubs used to be, is specialty act. Singer.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Or music. And then a comic and Sullivan and.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And then it became. And then the stand up comedy boom hit and it was like, everybody, get the fuck out of here. It's just stand up.

[David Spade]

It's just then you had like, Peter Patofsky. There was like guys that were juggler comedians, magic comedians, and they kept the comedy part. And it's probably easier to get on stage.

[Bob Odenkirk]

You know, I think it probably. There's some value to it in that, you know, if it's just one comic after another, it's like if there's just something between the comics that can kind of clean, clear the palette a little bit with. Is kind of a. I don't know, to me, the issue I had, and I write about it in my book, which is why we're talking, right?

[Dana Carvey]

Comedy, comedy, comedy, drama. I'm halfway through it. Great, Fascinating.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I hope you like it, Dana.

[David Spade]

I just got to the comedy, comedy.

[Dana Carvey]

I have my Own lane of this life we've shared together and then where we intersect. It was so cool. I just have great memories of you. And we wrote a movie together which you primarily wrote, but called Tucson. And we had a lot think about that.

[David Spade]

Tucson.

[Dana Carvey]

That still is a great, really funny script.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Oh yeah, thanks, Dana. I think so too. I think it's a great scenario that you cooked up which is that little guy in the west and Irishman. Yeah, Irishman with good with his guns, but just sweet as hell. And so the opposite of Clint Eastwood. Just the very polar opposite of a Clint Eastwood character. And so. What was I saying?

[Dana Carvey]

Just that you remember the first scene must have been. It's so you.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Oh, what?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I think I come to town. I'm from Ireland.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

And Lovitz is. Got a hangman's noose around him and there's posters. He was running for mayor and the posters said if I don't clean up the town, you can hang me. And then Lovitz was the conniving. Oh, hello. And I was. Well, I put it in my gun. So anyway. But that was.

[Bob Odenkirk]

But there was a joke in there, Dana, that somebody else did in a movie very. In the last few years. It was one of the characters was named like Clint Eastwood.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And there's some. His name was Clint Eastwood and there.

[Dana Carvey]

Was so much great stuff.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Somebody did that joke recently.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, that's. Or Jon Hamm. Sometimes when Jon Hamm is in a show, they call him John Hammond just as I'm Larry David. It's funny. But yeah.

[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[Bob Odenkirk]

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[David Spade]

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[Bob Odenkirk]

What is up?

[Dana Carvey]

It's a chat show about women whose society is called Crazy.

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[Bob Odenkirk]

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[Dana Carvey]

Listen to and follow the C Word with Lena Dunham and Alyssa Bennett. Available now. Wherever you get your podcasts. Should we go back to and then make our way to snl? I just, I, I'm sort of curious because I don't. Didn't see it, but what was the stuff that. Well, you know, got you.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I talk a lot about the trauma of SNL. You know, I. SNL's pretty easy to write about because it was so hard and difficult for me personally, but that's true for a lot of people and the story's been told many times, but I just told my version of it. But it's such a crucible, right, of pressure and desire and discovering yourself and it just leads to a lot of interior trauma and then that's something to write about. Whereas, you know, when I got to the later parts of the book and I'm writing about Breaking Bad where, well, I mean, there was a journey there to become a better actor, but also the journey of the show becoming famous. But the show itself was a well oiled machine with nothing but prose in every direction and nobody having any emotional issues, just working really hard and supporting each other and pulling together. Yeah. And so there's not much to say. We, you know, isn't it great? The writers did a great job and then we all worked really hard and turned out well.

[David Spade]

And.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Well, there's nothing to say.

[David Spade]

It's not like if they, if someone has a good scene and everyone goes, that guy's the best one. He's the best one in that scene. And then the rest of the day.

[Dana Carvey]

You feel like shit. You know, you're getting it day to day, I assume. Like you. When you're doing Better Call Saul, it's going to be great, right?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, there's a. Yeah. I mean, especially over time, as you. The more you do it and you get to know the values of the show, what's good about the show, and you see it coming across in the writing and you know what you captured that day and think, well, that's going to play really well or be fun to watch. And. Yeah, it's just not this. It's. There's not as much to say as there is to say about Saturday Night Live, where there's so many books and so many. And they're all fascinating. I love them all, by the way. One of the reasons I wrote my book is I love to read showbiz memoirs. I just love them.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And. And usually when somebody gets into something that works and. Or they're talking about their hit show, there's not much to say. It's all about the struggle and the failure and the loss and the. That's where there's juicy stories.

[David Spade]

You know, Dana. When I got there, Dana was. Bob was there already when I got there, viewers, yeah, Bob was there and Dana was there, and I came in and Bob is always. I tell Bob more than Dana just because Bob was a writer with me and we were in there all the time. But Bob's always sort of in a good mood, shockingly, when I look back, because it's hard to be in a good mood at that place. But always laughing. Always took a second for me. So did Conan. But you guys at least would explain a little bit of what was going on, because I was really a rube just right. I was a middle act. I didn't know how to write. I didn't know how to use a yellow pad. I didn't know how to. I had a square wooden desk. And they just. Downey goes, here's your room. Bye. And I'm like, I don't know what's going on. What am I doing? And so I would. Everyone has so much to do on their own plate. You do, Bob. Dana does. And it's hard to take a second to tell someone, hey, because it's someone that not ultimately might take your job, but just one more person kind of in your way, in a weird way. And you have to put that aside for a second and be a human being. And you did that. It was very nice. And now whenever I see you at a party. If it's a showbiz thing, I don't see Dana out as much unless we have dinner. But I run into Bob places, and then I just beeline over to him because we always just start laughing within seconds. And that's fun to have. And we got through the craziness, and we're both sort of sane.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Absolutely, buddy. That's how I feel. I never told you this, but that party at Gallo Series where I met McCartney and got to sit with him for 15, 20 minutes as we. As Naomi and I were walking in, my wife and I. I'm dreading going to this party because I'm, you know, 59 or at the time, 54 or whatever, and thinking, fuck it. I don't. I don't want to go out anymore at ever. And. And I'm. I'm thinking it's just going to be intimidating. There's going to be famous people here, and I don't know what to say to them. And I turn to Naomi and I go, you know what? David Spade will be here, buddy. I. We walk in the front door, and we look down the hall, and there you are. It fucking blew our minds.

[Dana Carvey]

He's a man about 10.

[David Spade]

There was one time I went to Guy's. I went to Guy's. I didn't even go to the. I obviously don't go to the Oscars, but I didn't go to Vanity Fair or anything. I just went straight over to Guys because Rock was over there. And I get there, and before you get in, there's a line for the bathroom. So I just stand in line for a second, and then McCartney comes behind me, and then he has a little chitter chatter. And then I'm floored. And then Bono comes out. So I knew I was like, again, like you. I don't think anyone knows what to say to anyone. So I do a few jokes that, you know, sort of strike out, and then we all kind of dart our eyes, and then I drift forward.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you have something throughout, know, Mr. Show or anything, if someone comes up to you in an airport or something? I assume, like most celebrities, specific compliments are the most flattering, rather than, you're great, you know, because someone came up to me. I'll just couch it. They came up to me at an airport and they said, I love skinheads in Maine. The thing I did with Colbert on my show, and it's so specific. My friends share that and laugh about it all the time, but you must have a hundred of those, especially with Mr. Show. There's so many quirky Mr. Show.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I'll tell you. I have. Yeah. I mean, we've all gotten to do lots of cool stuff between the three of us. I've just had this. The variety in my career is sometimes strange in its intensity. Yeah. Because this movie, nobody that I did this action movie that's like around the world. A whole different audience that probably they've never heard of. Mr. Show. Some of them have seen Breaking Bad and they're just like a whole nother set of people. But, you know, the strangest thing is I always do have to do the math when somebody comes up to me of like, I have no idea what, you know me from, what you think I did. That was great. And I've had the biggest surprise is how more than a few times a year somebody will come up and go, you are so great on how I met your mother. I mean, you're just the best. And it's like, I was on the show six times. Do you have anything like that, David? Do you have anything?

[David Spade]

Probably, yeah. I mean, there are little nuggets that I've done that, you know, I get Emperor's new Groove. And that's the only thing they know me from because my voice. And you get things that are like light sleeper where I played one scene and someone doesn't really know you at all, and they know you're famous or you're something, but that's the only thing in your whole life they saw and, and. And they appreciate it. So I'm. I'm happy. And it's true. I can sort of guess by who's coming up. I'm guessing sort of what they know me from.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

You know what I mean? And you. You might be able to get a feel if they just say you're great. I go, yeah, well, let's. Now, let's dig in.

[Dana Carvey]

I find that if someone is funny or in one scene of a movie or one part of a show, if they. If they catch me and really make me laugh or impress me, I'm kind of like a fan from then on, even if it's just like a small cameo. But, Bob, the interesting part of your story, obviously, is like, we know where it sort of is went. And I'm just wondering when you go, we go back to 87 and 91, and knowing you and your work ethic, you're smart, so funny, all that stuff. Like, how does that guy. What was the emotional. I mean, who was Bob in that. Those years that was so tenacious and so talented that then you went to this. And then of course, nobody is that. They're going to make 10 of those. That was so great for that genre, to reinvent that genre.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Thanks. Thanks. Listen, first of all, I got to tell you, when they finally greenlit that movie and I went to go make it, obviously I'm thinking probably we're going to fuck everything up and it'll be a mess. But I also thought if it works. If it works.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Then the thing I'm most excited about is my friends.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Going, what the.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. I said.

[Bob Odenkirk]

What?

[Dana Carvey]

It's like, Bob is doing this now, and it's not a one off. They all. That is too good. It's like too fucking good.

[David Spade]

I watch it and I go, this better be exactly what I think it's gonna be. And it was. And it delivered. And that fight, I think it was on a bus or something. I'm like, what? The fight I couldn't even do. I was like, I'm a bigger puss out of all of us. And I couldn't even do the fake stunts for that because I'm. I'm like, we can't even fake do it with you.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Because I go, I don't really need to get beaten up, but I can't lift my leg up and kick. And I might. This will hurt my clavicle if I hold this too high. So I like that it was you. And you. You have to be in shape.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah.

[David Spade]

Just to do a fight scene.

[Dana Carvey]

A fake for that. Right.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Because I worked really hard because I knew I had a long way to go. And I. And I. And I. And listen, right from the start, it was like, look, if we're going to do this, it's not going to be ironic. I'm not going to wink at the camera. I'm not going to give myself an out. I'm going to look. If I'm going to look like an asshole, I'm going to look like middle life crisis, loser, pathetic. Like, what happened to you, guy? I'm going to do this thing all the way or not at all. And then if it works, it's amazing.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And if it doesn't work, well, who didn't. Who didn't think it wouldn't work? I mean, come on. But I did.

[David Spade]

When do you realize it worked? At a test screening or at just rough dailies or is there a certain point where you go, this is actually coming together?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Covid really worked in our favor because we had a cut. It was good, but it felt kind of like an indie movie. It was a little slow and small. And then this because of COVID this editor who's the second editor on the project whose name is on it because it should be said, I got. I got nothing to do. Give me your movie, let me with it. And two weeks later this guy turned the movie back to us. And it was like, oh, wow, okay, wait a second. And the interesting thing is he added. He built the sequence that opens the film out of shit that was on the cutting room floor. Didn't not shot for the movie, just thrown away.

[David Spade]

What a worker.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And everything else in the movie. All he did was chop it a little bit, shift some of the order a little bit. Not much Ollie. And it was a totally different movie, totally different experience. And just work from be the get.

[David Spade]

Go that Titan and Brighton.

[Bob Odenkirk]

It was amazing with this guy because.

[Dana Carvey]

Are you connected to the character? Because it does work in. In the whole emotional arc. You really do feel simple. I feel sympathetic for your character. I want him to win.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, well, that's actually. Honestly, that's one of the things I thought I could bring to that genre is just so I. Yeah. Vulnerability genuine. Like that you bought.

[David Spade]

Yeah, like.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Because a lot of times, you know, you don't really. They try to have it, but they forced. Don't really buy it. But you don't care. If you're watching an action movie, a lot of times you don't care. You're like, so what? I like this guy. I like this scenario.

[David Spade]

Hit somebody.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, it's fine. Go, let's see the action. Let's have some fun with it. But I thought, is there something I could bring to this genre? And I thought, you know, around the world I'm known from Better Call Saul. And that's a character who's getting his ass kicked in a lot of ways and emotionally getting his ass kicked. And. And I play him and there's a sort of a great degree of empathy that people have for that guy and what the story they've. Evan Schiff is the editor. Evan Schiff came on board and. And made that thing a beauty. It's important to give credit. I love it.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And well, if you're.

[David Spade]

If you're bullied a lot, Bob, like I was and Dana was. And those movies are I love. Because it's what I could never do. And when you see like Death Wish with Charles Bronson, he's at least a guy that's not getting bullied every day because he's tough. But when you see a guy like You, I totally buy. I go, all right, Bob's a nice guy. He's out there trying to fucking get through the world, like everybody. And people just always fuck. They do it to me all the time. And so I know Chris Rock is doing the sequel, but anyway. But I feel like when you see you in that situation and I'm like, please fucking screw these guys up. It's like the equalizer.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Right, right, right. And it's the fantasy wish fulfillment that I could deliver on because I could really be that first iteration of the guy. And you really, really felt like, yeah, he really is.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

It's not just, you know, I don't know, Tom Cruise with glasses on or, you know, or a buttoned up shirt buttoned up to the collar.

[David Spade]

You know, I think you go into a bar or you go into someone and you say you want to see somebody they don't want you to. And you don't back down at all on anything, which is, I love you. Just go. I think it's best if you. And you're like, this is the way I want to talk. In all my whole life. I just want to say, listen, here's what's going to happen. I hit you, you hit the ground. I hit the next guy, he goes down and the guy's like, what are you talking about? And you're like, just you wait about 30 seconds, you'll see how this hit goes. You know? I love that shit.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I love it. So the fun of this, this idea, this thing I had, this secret I had inside me when I'm training, which is like, my friends Dana Carvey, David Spade, all these guys, if I get to make this and it comes off, they're just not gonna know where to turn. They're gonna have to go to the hospital and get an mri.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, definitely was a little bit of an opening. Old fashioned newspaper. Bob Odekirk starring an action film. What the fuck?

[David Spade]

And the picture, the poster's like, you kind of beat up.

[Dana Carvey]

I think that was a great post.

[David Spade]

What's going on here?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, well, it was a great joy to make that happen and to have that come to life.

[Lena Dunham]

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[Dana Carvey]

Can I ask you a personal question?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, I just for a second. Because you're starring in this film and you know, film and television have all overlapped now. It's like the best stuff's on television. You're starring a film. So like when you're like in the 70s, whatever, what films woke you up to, to film hood or show business? Like, what was a seminal film for you as a kid? You know, it could be for Ben Stiller it was the Poseidon Adventure. For, for, for Bill Hader it was Taxi driver.

[David Spade]

Hanks was 2001, I can tell you.

[Bob Odenkirk]

American Graffiti.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh yeah, okay. Ron Howard, 1973. Harrison Ford.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah. And, and, but you know, I'd gone to films, you know, fun movies at the cineplex and they were just building cineplexes at the time, but we had an old time movie theater in our small town of Naperville, Illinois. And I'd seen a John Wayne film there on its first run.

[Dana Carvey]

Big Technicolor. Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Rio Lobo.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Spade]

Oh, I thought it was the Cowboys.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And I liked it and it was great. And I loved going to movies when I could, but we didn't go to a lot of movies, but going to that little old theater where, you know, they showed just the latest thing from the studios for a week or two. Right. And seeing American Graffiti, man, that was a totally different vibe.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Than every, everything I had. I remember it in that theater or anywhere that was, it was new wave film in America and it felt more real, had a modern energy to it. And it's a very good film.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I mean, George Lucas, really good. Yeah.

[David Spade]

Was. It's so interesting to see a movie that sort of changes the way you think. And maybe it tilted you towards comedy, maybe not. But just that's the beauty of movies. When they, you see a bunch that do nothing and you're just sort of killing time and then one just grabs you. Nothing like it. It's what you want to do when you make movies, you go, I want one that people remember.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Right, right. Yeah. That's the thing a movie can be that a TV show pretty much isn't, which is this kind of very core elemental connection that just gets you deep, deeply. It's like a. It's a fable and it's. And it really takes you on a ride. I think with tv, you're always. No matter how well it's done, you just aren't as close to those lead characters. You're still just watching the story. You can be totally wrapped in the story, but you're just not. I don't know. I feel like movies just kind of grab you and take you on that one ride and you feel close to those characters in a personal way.

[David Spade]

But, you know, it might be the fact that it's singular, you know, Bob, like, it's just. You go, and this is at beginning, middle, end. And you go, wow. And you want to see the whole thing again. And tv, sometimes you go, if someone says, did you see the series? I'm like, oh, what? And they're like, it's on episode four. I mean, you know, like season four. You. I can't. But I don't have 200 hours right now.

[Dana Carvey]

Go ahead, Bob. I just think the power of film more than ever now is turning off the cell phone and not being distracted because you're watching something with your wife, you're enjoying it. And then, I mean, it's just. It's. It's a problem.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, so the focus of a film.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Well, yeah. Is really strong and really a powerful experience. Anyway, I still love tv, and I love everything that we all get to do. And I. I really. I like moving around, and I certainly don't think I have a career, a future as a movie star, but I will get to make a few more movies. But it's not important to me. It wasn't like the drive of my life. I. I was driven by comedy, as my book really, really says. I mean, I'm really trying to warn people with that title.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I know a lot of people know me warn them Better Call Saul and. And Breaking Bad. But I want to say.

[David Spade]

Oh, right.

[Bob Odenkirk]

You know, I'm going to talk about, you know, comedy in Chicago in 1985. And you're probably not going to give a shit about that. And.

[David Spade]

Right. You're definitely have fans that don't know you from comedy at all.

[Bob Odenkirk]

At all. At all.

[David Spade]

That's rare for us for, you know, for comedians that you have a whole huge New crowd.

[Bob Odenkirk]

It's, it's. Yeah, it's true. And I, and I want to move around between these things because that's always been the most fun thing for me. And that's one of the reasons I think I love sketch comedy so much, is you're just jumping around from different ideas, different, you know, different tones. Something's really broad, something's a little subtler. You know, I like jumping around between all that stuff.

[Dana Carvey]

So how, how did you find yourself? Because not everyone, if people should read the book. But you know, just quickly, that journey from. I know Monty Python was a big, big wake up call for you and then you like Chicago, Second City. But what was it about Monty Python that's not in the book? You know, what are your. Even today you feel like that is the one that you and your brother Bill just went, holy shit.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah. You know, I think, you know, there's a lot of comedy in the 70s that we all watched. It had kind of a look, some of it was great, you know, for sure. I mean, I loved Carol Burnett's show. The vibe with those people was like joining a party. That was a very welcoming party, friendly. It wasn't like they were, yeah, friendly and sweet and we sure needed that in my house. So I love that. But I think Python was, for me, the thing that spoke about how I looked at the world and it kind of put an arm around me and said, yeah, the adults are crazy assholes. And don't worry, you're not the only one thinking this. And it's okay, you can laugh at it. That's what you could do. And, and I think it's because, you know, they're young guys, they were in their 20s making that show, and they were very smart and they're very silly. Like, extremely silly, but very smart.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And that's, that's the, that's the tough.

[David Spade]

Combo to get right.

[Bob Odenkirk]

That's the magic combination to me. And, and I just, it just spoke to my, the way I needed to see the world, to be really comforted, you know, I mean, this is what all the things we do and the things that affect us on a deep level do in whether it's a movie or a book or a TV show or someone, stand up, act is. It makes you feel less alone. You just get that feeling of, I'm not the only one who sees this in the world. And, and when you're a kid and you're 10 or 11 at the time, I was, I think 11 when I first saw Python. That is a Crucial. You're just about to become an adult, probably really sensing. And in my house, I mean, life was extremely unstable at that point because there's at that point, five kids. Two more to come.

[Dana Carvey]

Wow.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Two more to come. How the does that happen when, you know, financially, it's off the rail, there's no future, there's no stability anywhere, anywhere near you. And like, how. And you just as a kid, you know, no one's including you in any of that.

[David Spade]

Your parents, Alec Baldwin.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Oh, boy, I wish she was.

[Dana Carvey]

Mine wasn't a picnic either. But we've talked about this, I'm sure, privately, but it was rough. But yours sounds really intense and.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, but I mean, look, you know, but it's not that special. Yeah, I mean, I try to express in the book, look, I know my childhood is not special. It is a very typical 70s childhood. You know, people were just starting to have the word alcoholism in their vocabulary. I mean, there was, you know, it was just coming to understand a lot of. All of my dad's friends all ended up broke, bankrupt, divorce.

[Dana Carvey]

Really.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And yeah, he used to take us out. He used to. Occasionally when he would hang out with us, he would take us to his office and we'd go to lunch with these five guys and they'd get ripped at lunch and, and all of them, car crashes, divorced.

[Dana Carvey]

America, playbook.

[Bob Odenkirk]

It was like the playbook. Hey, you had your car crash. I'm next, I'm next. You know, and I remember my dad quiet, getting in his car accident. And his was a good one.

[David Spade]

He went through the window in his car accident.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, he went through the window and landed like 15ft outside the car. Oh, wow. And I remember him looking in the mirror, picking glass out of his head. Like, even, like a week later, he's still picking little pieces of glass out of his. Out of his bald head.

[Dana Carvey]

Jeez.

[David Spade]

So you went in. But come on, that was a 70s. That was a dad.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, right, Was.

[David Spade]

My dad was a drone.

[Dana Carvey]

We had all kinds of excitement.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, yeah. But look, the bottom line is it wasn't special. It was just where I was at when comedy came along and told me, yeah, he's nuts. It's crazy. It's okay, just laugh at it. And, and, and Steve Martin on SNL was also like a super powered rocket ship to like Crazy Town. And the best comedy, the best mix of, you know, ample, you know, conceptualized, you know, like the, the Fast Trunk Brothers, like that's off the rails stuff.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, wild and crazy guys.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Wild and crazy guys. I am but they pull it off and it isn't. Look, there. There was A thing about the 70s humor that was kind of cute and palsy and wasn't. Didn't make me happy. The dangerous stuff is what made me happy. And. And that's what came in, came around around, you know, this time for me.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Carlin, by the way, your American Graffiti was my Life of Brian.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Oh, really?

[David Spade]

I saw Life of Brian and I was like, what the is? I didn't know anything on Monty Python. I just went to a comedy and we snuck in because it was R rated wild. And it really hit me like, what the are these guys? It was nothing like I'd seen. And, you know, I don't want to harp on it, but I just wanted to acknowledge that Monty Python stuff did hit me also. I mean, I saw Animal House. I saw all the stuff I'm supposed to see and loved. And then that was just a little different move. And smart, silly, of course. And just doing stuff we didn't do here.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah, I had the same reaction. All my friends loved it.

[David Spade]

And you now, now, Bob. I have to ask Bob if he wrote for Dennis, because I didn't know that. I don't think I knew you wrote for Dennis Miller before snl.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, but before I got on as a writer, I would send jokes. Well, I would send scripts to Robert. Here's what happened, okay? I was doing different crazy shit in Chicago. Stand up, sketch shows, anything. And Robert Smigel, I'd seen his work at this little theater that we all went to school at called the Players Workshop, and he wrote a show there that later became a hit show. It ran for like a year and a half and made tons of money. And so I saw that show in its early iteration, and it was already solid. It's such good writing and so strong. It's so like, it just works. Like, I had a hit ratio of like 15% and I didn't care, by the way. That was fine. And Smigel had a hit ratio of like 90%. And it was like, yeah, he was.

[David Spade]

A big slugging percentage.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Holy shit, man. I don't know where that comes from. You know, Robert says it's the Rupert Pupkin effect, is what he calls his achievement as a young writer, where all these years I've been pretending in my head that I was this writer and I've been sort of writing stuff in my head, like Rupert Pupkin in his basement. And then he said, if you notice on the show, in the movie the King of Comedy, when he actually gets a chance. It actually, he's actually pretty good.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And it's like just from hundreds of hours of, you know, of doing it in front of the, you know, in front of the wall.

[Dana Carvey]

Interesting.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And, and I hadn't done what Robert did, I think not even close to the hours he put in on really examining writing and sketch work and what a sketch is. And, and, but he had. I saw his work. I loved it. He saw me in this crazy show. It was off the rails silly stuff, but I was doing characters and I was. I mean, the only thing you could recommend about it was my commitment and my silliness. I mean, it was super silly. And he got that I was willing to just go that far and thought it was cool. And we started writing a show together. And then he got hired at snl. And so here I am in Chicago and he doesn't know anybody when he gets to snl. So he's calling me up on a Monday and going, I have these two ideas. Calling me again on Tuesday, reading the script to me. I'm going, do this joke. What about this? I'm just pitching them jokes. And he had, he just has a partner, even though he's, you know, at snl, new to the job, and he's got someone to call and work his stuff on with and work his stuff with on. And so I'm sending stuff in, I guess he's sharing it with some other writers. And then I'm sending jokes in for Dennis and Dennis is doing them. I mean that. You know what that means?

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Waiting tables in Chicago.

[David Spade]

Oh, you see a joke on the air.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I remember my first joke. I remember delivering food to the table at Ed Dubevik's in Chicago. And I keep checking the screen because they have SNL on. You can't hear it, but it's on the tv. And there's that picture of Bob Hope and there's my nasty joke. Mean spirited joke. Mean spirited from this fucking kid.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you want to tell us what it is?

[Bob Odenkirk]

The, the statue, the statute of limitations on respecting Bob Hope for his earlier work ran out today.

[Dana Carvey]

Taking a shot. I love it. And that's the statue of limitations. It's all the language and you know, it's like a nicely tightly written funny short.

[David Spade]

Short and tight.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And people.

[David Spade]

And it's something everyone's thinking. No one says out loud.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Says out loud and, and did great. And Dennis does a couple of my jokes over the next year or two. And Smigel, actually there was one scene I wrote that got on. It was the Sideshow of the Stars. So, you know, they had Circus of the Stars, and this was Sideshow of the Stars where they have, you know, I don't even remember the jokes, but somebody's got hair all over their body that you didn't know or something, you know, sitcom actor. And. And. And Robert, of course, punched it. Punched that way up. But I only got one. That was the only sketch that I got on when I hadn't been a writer there yet. And then I had that meeting with Lauren that I detailed in the book, and I kind of exaggerated. But the truth is, Dana and David, I went into Lauren's office and I really did think, this guy does not want his ass kissed. He's heard enough people, you know, praise him. He wants to. If he's going to hire somebody, he wants to hear somebody with a critical mind.

[Dana Carvey]

I gotta hear what you said. I told. Sure. It's in the book.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Well, I mean, I just went like, yeah, I don't know. What do you think of the show? Do you like it? I don't know.

[David Spade]

I could fix it.

[Bob Odenkirk]

It's been better. It's been better for sure. I mean, I think the earlier, you know, and what comedy do you like?

[David Spade]

What do you like?

[Bob Odenkirk]

Oh, Monty Python. Monty Python. Now, that was great. And that was great because it was smart and silly and. And they didn't have to, you know, they didn't. They knew their lines. They were.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

You know, reading cue cards.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Ripping the show because.

[David Spade]

Well, thanks for coming in, Bob.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I kind of think he. He's gonna like this. You know. Talk about not reading a room, man. Holy. And. And the fact that he hired me is insane. The only thing I had in my favor was he doesn't really. I want to. He doesn't have to examine that kind of hiring that closely. I mean, if a couple writers want you to hire somebody, you're gonna say, sure, go ahead, give him a try. We can try.

[David Spade]

They think they're good because he doesn't. He's not. First. How can he tell in a meeting?

[Dana Carvey]

And he goes.

[David Spade]

In fairness, I wasn't listening.

[Bob Odenkirk]

The other thing I'd say, David, is. I mean, Lauren loves Python, too. Oh, yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Friends with all of them.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Lauren also. Yeah. Lauren probably would say if you said, what's the best comedy show of the last hundred years? He'd go, oh, well, it's not my show. It's Monty Python, you know? And so the fact is, he probably kind of. Well, the other thing is, he also knows what it's like to sit across from a very nervous young person who doesn't know what to say, is completely, wildly intimidated. And he's just done that 10,000 times and probably kind of gave me a little break for that maybe.

[David Spade]

Sure, he's a. He's a. He's very funny also. And I don't know if that always comes across that we talk about him because we joke, but he's very funny. He's very dry and he. And when you can make Lauren laugh at. Read through. It's so fun when he cracks up. Sometimes he slaps the table and laughs and you're like, oh, my God, what a home run.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Yeah, I don't. I never did that. But yeah.

[David Spade]

Bob, we. Dane, I don't know if you remember when I was having some troubles in the show, and I think I would just credit Bob with the one in my picture in my head when I'm joking about People magazine or just killing time of the day. And Bob is a great laugher, by the way, which always helps disarm, you know, make you feel better and sincere. Sort of came up with Hollywood Minute and steered it with. With me. And remember, Bob, we were thinking, like, maybe there'd be a show.

[Bob Odenkirk]

David, what did I do to help you with that? I just said, what you do here back in the writer's room, you should just do that.

[David Spade]

Yes, it was something that simple, but it made me. And we were framing it and I'm like, could it be a show called Guess what? Remember, it's like, guess what? You're an idiot. You know, and then it turned into like just a series of photos, which when you said that Bob Hope won, that was kind of like a simple way it's put, you know, do a joke, try to think of something people are thinking. Everyone's kissing ass to celebrities. And I was unknown, which helped, you know, just innocent looking. That was part of it. That's why it took. I didn't want to do it as much later because I sort of turned into someone people knew. And then it's. Then it turns meaner. And then it was just kind of fun to take someone's legs out for no reason, like, hey, this guy is famous. Fuck you. And then there was always a reason, like, I didn't want to go at people more than once because, you know, you get one freebie if they screw up. And I didn't want it to be that mean. It was just for fun. But. Yeah, but it was a big help. Just the fact that you encourage or Even listen to me in between we're eating Wally and Joseph's or whatever. It was nice. It sort of just got me thinking.

[Bob Odenkirk]

You know, I love to hear somebody. You know, I've helped a couple young talent groups or people to find some way forward, and it's because I know what it's like to tread water and lose ground and be lost. And if you can give somebody a little cue that maybe gives them a shortcut or clarifies what they're doing already, and it's a great feeling to be able to do that. I guess I've done that even more than I thought, but. But I like to do it. I mean, part of it is, you know, one of the ways that you can use your skills when you've been at SNL for a few years as a writer, and by the time you were there, I'd been there for three years, and I finally was feeling like I'm starting to understand what the show needs, because instead of what I wanted it to be, which was insane, because it's never going to be Monty Python.

[David Spade]

It could not change it to a cloud.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Oh, my God. There's so much about it.

[David Spade]

The reality. What's the reality?

[Bob Odenkirk]

How can you help?

[David Spade]

What's the show?

[Bob Odenkirk]

It took me for years. Years.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

But somewhere around my third year, my brain started to calm down and go, wait, it's not this other thing that you want it to be. It is a thing that is. Has all kinds of. First of all, it's so hard to do. You know, whenever we talk about it and we critique the show, and, I mean, the fucking thing just on the. On the face of it is impossible. It's an impossible thing. It's absurd. And the more I go back, the more I go. When I go back and see the show being done, I'm like, oh, my God, this is impossible. You know, when I was young, I never thought that. Oh, my God, I. When I got hired there, I was like, come on. How come this isn't better? Come on, work, you guys. This is not hard work. It shouldn't be hard. Yeah. You know, and it's like, once you've produced a few things, you're like, you want me to do a show Saturday night with sets and you want.

[David Spade]

And how good all the departments are. Yeah, the departments are so fucking on it.

[Bob Odenkirk]

They're so good.

[Dana Carvey]

They're so craft. Anyway, did you ever think during a long dress show, sometimes I thought, maybe tonight's the night. It won't. The show won't go on they'll show a rerun or something. Sometimes it just seemed like I never thought that.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I mean, I think more now, but again, when I was there, Dana, when I started there, I had such, I don't know, you know, you guys know the people who start in this business. There's such a strange mix of confidence, self doubt, ego, self hatred. It's the weirdest. Like, how does it work? How does it work that you have a friend? You know, we all have a friend. Literally walks around all day hating themselves, talking about how stupid and dumb they are, and then gets on stage and tells a crowd of strangers what they think.

[Dana Carvey]

Like to a madhouse.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Well, how does that work? Something's wrong here because if you don't think you're worth anything, then you shouldn't be thinking, give me that mic. I need to tell everyone what I.

[David Spade]

Give me that mic.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I just always felt I need to lecture these people.

[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

I'm gonna calm down a little excited, so go ahead.

[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

Bob I always felt if I didn't kill, I'd be, I'd get fired. I, I felt like I had to destroy it. Maybe I pushed a little too much at times until I got to Johnny Carson was the only sketch I did toward the end where I wasn't pushing. But I, I just wanted to make the point that. Are you still with us? Your screen's frozen. Oh, okay. God. You were just.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Oh, yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Is that. It seemed like you were like. If you told me you had a pretty good time on snl, wouldn't surprise me because it seems like you were sort of around a lot. Like you'd be in a room with Conan or Robert or here's an example I wanted the audience to hear. Franken and I are doing a George Bush senior. We're sitting around somewhere going and I'm doing the thing, gotta do it, gotta get. And then, and then it was. We're trying to go. I think Al said in the lesson, the lesson of Vietnam and you would just eavesdropped or just walk by and you just went, stay out of Vietnam. And that killed on the show on Saturday. Lesson of Vietnam, stay out of Vietnam. Do you remember that moment? But I think you were around the show a lot. Grumpy old man was really your. You originated that. I don't know. It seemed like you were around.

[Bob Odenkirk]

You know, I listen if I try to think of the things I contributed to SNL and basically I say in my book that I didn't contribute help at all and I got paid and I learned so much about how to write a sketch and what a sketch is made of. And I. But. And then I gave nothing back. Nothing in return. Like, Lauren totally got the shit end of the stick with me. But probably those things maybe added up to something. The little things that I was able to do because Robert included me in writing or, you know, anybody did. I mean, I can think of some of them because they stick out, because they were. It would. Meant a lot to me when I was able to help and say something that helped. I wanted it to work. That's the other thing. Sometimes I think when I talk about the show, it sounds like I hated the show or thought it was dumb and fuck this place. And it's not true. It's not true. I. I wanted nothing more than to be helpful and meaningful there, and it would have meant so much to me to feel that way, but I just did my best.

[David Spade]

But you brought in, like, motivational speaker, which is one of the greats. I mean, that's just that alone you could have fucking.

[Bob Odenkirk]

David, that was after I left that shit scene.

[David Spade]

Was that true?

[Bob Odenkirk]

That was the next. Yeah, that. That they did that scene the year after I left. Now they gave me credit for it, of course, because I wrote it. I wrote it alone in my apartment in Chicago. But. But that wasn't even.

[Dana Carvey]

I had left hand down by the river, just that, wow. Fan down by the river.

[David Spade]

I mean, just the fact that it's one of the most. I mean, listen, I just was in the scene and I hear about it every day, so. But I had nothing to do with it. I just was cast. Thank God. Lo.

[Dana Carvey]

Jesus.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Well, you guys know that as proud as I am that I wrote it, and I supremely proud. It's a standout moment in my life and SNL's life. You know, Chris Farley is the reason Freight Train just come on. I mean, that guy. I mean, I talk about him a lot in the book, and it's weird and it's fun to talk to you guys right now because I mentioned to Howard Stern on his podcast that, you know, it's strange to. To write about somebody who I. I mean, David, you were very close to him. I was not. I mean, I. I was. I felt very close to him, but so did anyone who saw him perform.

[Dana Carvey]

Or even hung out or met a sweet.

[David Spade]

Yeah, he was so nice and look in the eye and just like, shake your hand and be happy. And they felt like, oh, that's why he was so lovable. They're like, oh, this guy's my friend.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Immediately, Howard said, you know, I Didn't really know him. And I said, but you did. You did because you saw him perform. You saw him as a.

[David Spade]

That's basically what it was. Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

And. And so I, I was. I felt a little strange about writing as much as I did, but it was pure honesty and he affected me and impacted me greatly, as he did everyone who got to know him. So. So, you know, I mean, it's fun to talk about how I got to write that sketch and that it played so well on the show, but it's all Chris. You know, the show is always. The show is always performance. One of the things that probably bothered me was that SNL is always going to reward and celebrate a performance. Laugh over a construction story. Laugh. And as a writer, I'm wanting those two to at least be equal.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Or if not, lean in my direction. Where you go, yeah, that performer who does says Van out there, he's all right. But the idea that's so well constructed.

[Dana Carvey]

And that probably was Jack Handy, right? Jack Handy, Yeah.

[Bob Odenkirk]

A Jack Handy sketch is a Jack Handy sketch. It is funny because Jack Handy is genius. And. And it does it. You can put seven other actors in there if they're okay.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, you're gonna Frozen Caveman Lawyer. I mean, Phil was great, but the.

[David Spade]

Concept, that was one of the best. It's so Jack Handy and Phil nailing it. But just he's nailing a great piece of writing sketch that was written so well. And Handy sketches, you know, like a fingerprint within a half a page at read through. You're like looking around going, is this Jack Handy? Like it's immediately comes out of this of the gate.

[Bob Odenkirk]

I would love to talk to you guys for five years more hours.

[David Spade]

I love you, Bob. Thank you for coming, man.

[Bob Odenkirk]

Thanks so much, Bob.

[Dana Carvey]

It's been such a pleasure. You're right. We could go for five more hours.

[David Spade]

Hey, guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, Give us review 5 star rating and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

[Dana Carvey]

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

[David Spade]

Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey.

[Dana Carvey]

Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman and the show is produced and edited by.

[David Spade]

Phil Sweet tech booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

[Dana Carvey]

Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kurt Courtney and Lauren Vieira.

[David Spade]

Reach out with us. Any questions be asked and answered on the show? You can email [e-mail] that's a U D a C-Y dot com.