RE-RELEASE - David Byrne

Summary

Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade
Episode: RE-RELEASE – David Byrne
Date: June 24, 2026

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Overview

In this engaging and insightful episode, comedy legends Dana Carvey and David Spade sit down with music and art icon David Byrne (Talking Heads, "American Utopia") for a freewheeling conversation spanning Byrne’s unique creative trajectory, SNL stories, the evolution of live performance, art vs. commerce, brain science, optimism, and the looming presence of AI in the arts. Combining the hosts' characteristic banter with Byrne’s philosophical yet playful presence, the episode is a treat for fans of both comedy and music, offering fresh perspectives on creativity, reinvention, and staying true to oneself over a long career.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. David Byrne’s Artistic Persona & Movement Style

[03:43 – 08:17]

• Dana and David discuss Byrne's legendary status and unique stage presence.
• Dana observes Byrne’s dancing style as "Polynesian, slow but graceful" and not overtly energetic, noting its accessibility and charisma.
  • Byrne: “I thought to myself, I don’t want to dance like… other kind of rock…they’ve kind of cornered that. But they do that and do it really well. So I have to find something that works for me.” (06:30)
• Byrne explains he wanted his movements to emerge organically from the music, hoping that others would see his approach and feel empowered to try it themselves.

2. SNL Memories: Musical Guests & Creative Control

[10:08 – 17:45]

• Spade inquires about Byrne's SNL experiences as a musical guest.

  • Byrne: “I remember early on, I seem to recall being very pushy about it…‘I want you to shoot it in black and white.’” (11:51)

• Byrne describes being bold with production requests, contrasting today’s collaborative atmosphere with his earlier, more assertive approach.

• Dana recounts his 1986 experience at Lorne Michaels’ house, where Talking Heads was part of the household soundtrack and notes Byrne’s singular vocal style.

• Byrne shares that Lorne Michaels once gave him rare vocal notes after rehearsal.

  Dana Carvey: "There's always a portion of the audience, kind of the original fans...who have a kind of legacy sense of all that." (18:34)
  David Byrne: "[The younger audience] often has no idea what to expect." (19:13)

3. Navigating ‘Selling Out’ & Commercialism

[20:18 – 23:52]

• Byrne reflects on generational attitudes towards commercial work and the tension between artistry and mainstream exposure.
  • Byrne: “I’m of a generation where musicians kind of avoided that if they could...Now it’s actually encouraged.” (20:54)
• The group discusses Ticketmaster, dynamic pricing, and the economics of concerts, with Byrne expressing admiration for Pearl Jam’s anti-Ticketmaster stance and the challenges of keeping tickets accessible for fans.

4. Creative Process: Live Performance & Rituals

[26:44 – 31:14]

• Byrne queries Dana and Spade about developing new material in clubs versus larger venues.
  • Dana: “I love the small clubs...with comedy it’s always a surprise.”
• Discussion turns to stage rituals and psychology before performing, with Dana sharing his mantra "have fun," and Byrne describing backstage banter with his band.
  • Byrne: “We’re all on our mics...there’s a lot of joking around, like, okay, who’s out there tonight?” (30:48–31:14)

5. The Power of MTV and Music Videos

[33:04 – 36:37]

• Spade reminisces on the importance of MTV and how music videos like “Wildlife” gave songs second lives and cultural staying power.
  • Byrne: “In those days, songs broke because of the video...and then the radio would be forced to play it.” (36:18–36:37)

6. Reinventing Broadway with "American Utopia"

[37:13 – 39:09]

• The conversation delves into Byrne’s recent Broadway success, focusing on innovation—mobile percussion, live sound, and audience connection.

  • Byrne: “Being able to do a stage show like that…it was kind of bringing together everything that got me excited.” (37:15)

• Byrne shares advice he received from Hugh Jackman on vocal health and pacing during Broadway runs.

  Byrne: “Don’t go to parties after...you will end up talking louder in a bar than you are singing on stage. And that will wear–that’s like doing a whole nother show.” (39:10)
  Hugh Jackman advice via Byrne

7. The Brain, Therapy, and Psychedelics

[41:37 – 45:42]

• Dana asks about Byrne’s interest in neuroscience and views on psilocybin, ketamine, and therapeutic psychedelics.
  • Byrne: “I haven’t tried any of those therapies…LSD and everything were used pretty successfully, it seems, for therapy until it was made illegal.” (42:25)
  • He supports careful, research-based exploration for trauma and notes the resurgence of interest in these therapies.
• Dana discusses metaphorical explanations for neural pathways and breaking negative cycles; Byrne agrees recognizing the need to break out of destructive thought loops.

8. Optimism, News, and “Reasons to be Cheerful”

[49:51 – 52:48]

• Dana references Byrne’s "Reasons to be Cheerful" project and the rare power of good news in the media ecosystem.
  • Byrne: “We look for places around the world where people have found solutions…[like] communities managing fishing so the sea is not overfished, and they end up making more money than before—a happy ending.” (51:25)
• The group laments modern media’s bias towards negativity, and Dana describes escaping "hypnotized into darkness" by the news cycle.

9. AI & The Future of Art

[47:59 – 49:03]

• Inquiry into Byrne’s take on AI-generated art.
  • Byrne: “I remember reading about [the AI-generated painting]. The picture’s kind of nice. Not exactly what I would do, but…nothing wrong with that.” (48:13)
• Both Byrne and Dana affirm they still value art “from someone,” appreciating the irreplaceable spark of human creativity.

10. Staying Creative and Avoiding Stagnation

[63:23 – 66:46]

• Dana is in awe of Byrne’s drive: “You can’t stop. My computer goes, all right, give me a break.”
• Byrne acknowledges he’s fortunate to be able to take creative risks, and notes he’s been offered but resists doing a simple Talking Heads “hits” tour.
  • Byrne: “I’ve gotten offers for that. But at the same time, I know that you’re not going to be happy there.” (64:35)
• Carvey reflects on the value of reinvention over repeating past successes and maintaining a sense of purpose.

11. Final Thoughts: Health, Happiness, & Therapy

• Dana and Byrne discuss the importance of health, avoiding material excess, and focusing on meaningful pursuits.
  • Byrne: “At some point, okay, I got enough bicycles. I don’t. My apartment’s big enough. I’m fine.” (65:47)
• Dana asks about therapy and self-understanding; Byrne shares he tried therapy for relationship challenges but finds activity and routine (like cycling) are therapeutic.

12. Leave-Takings and Plugs

[67:25 – 68:47]

• Dana and David thank Byrne for his time, trumpeting his art show at Pace Gallery and the availability of "American Utopia" via HBO.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Byrne on dance:
  "I have to find something that works for me...I started figuring out moves and things...that felt like they were coming from me and they didn't feel like anything else." (06:30)
• Byrne on awards (re: EGOT):
  "Wait, no, no...there's no E. So not quite." (10:29)
• On staying fresh:
  "You keep reinventing yourself all around a certain general theme, but it is always new." — Dana Carvey (20:19)
• On Ticketmaster:
  "They were trying to do the right thing, but it is...yeah, it's a really hard thing for them to do. And I admired them for giving it a try." — Byrne (22:09)
• On optimism:
  "We’re biased towards bad news...We like to be aware of what kind of lions and tigers are looming around the corner as opposed to the nice stuff." — Byrne (52:17)
• On creativity:
  "They don’t always work, but people kind of allow me to try that stuff." — Byrne (63:48)
• On living well:
  "I realized, yeah, at some point, okay, I got enough bicycles. My apartment’s big enough. I’m fine." — Byrne (65:47)

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Timestamps for Significant Segments

• 03:43 – Byrne’s approach to performance and movement
• 11:29 – SNL musical guest autonomy and black & white shoot request
• 14:20 – Byrne recalls 2020 SNL with John Mulaney, Lorne’s vocal notes
• 20:33 – Discussion of “selling out,” generational changes in music business
• 22:53 – The economics of ticket sales: dynamic pricing & fairness to fans
• 26:44 – Comedy club process vs. live music; keeping material fresh, working rooms
• 30:34 – Pre-show rituals; Byrne’s backstage banter; Dana’s comedy mantras
• 33:04 – MTV, music videos, and how visuals shaped the era
• 37:13 – "American Utopia": Deconstructing the Broadway run
• 39:09 – Hugh Jackman’s advice to Byrne about Broadway stamina
• 42:25 – Byrne on therapeutic use of psychedelics, brain science
• 49:51 – “Reasons to be Cheerful,” media bias, optimism
• 52:48 – News and the evolutionary function of anxiety
• 59:10 – Post-COVID audience energy in live comedy and arts
• 64:35 – Rejecting the 'review show'; continuing reinvention
• 65:47 – Health, happiness, and what “rich” really means

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Tone and Atmosphere

The episode features the playful, self-deprecating wit of Spade and Carvey paired with Byrne’s thoughtful, dryly humorous delivery. There’s a relaxed intimacy to the conversation, with plenty of mutual admiration, quirky anecdotes, and respectful deep-dives into creative process, midlife perspective, and artistic integrity.

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For New Listeners

This episode is much more than a Talking Heads or SNL nostalgia trip—it’s a meditation on sustaining a passionate, agile mind across decades in the creative arts. Simultaneously funny and insightful, it’s a “fly on the wall” view as three creative powerhouses riff on life, legacy, and finding joy in the work itself.

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Transcript

[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

Comedy royalty Kate McKinnon returns as Queen Mortuana and Heads Will Roll Heir Apparent, a highly anticipated sequel to Audible's fan favorite original comedy series. She's flanked once more by co star Emily Lynn and a new star studded ensemble including Richard Kind, Lori Metcalf, Jimmy Fallon, Megan Mulli, Sam Richardson and Carrie Coon, plus an extensive cast of comedy greats. Seriously extensive. This is wall to wall comedy at the highest level. When we last left our gloriously unhinged Queen and her Raven sidekick JoJo, the unlikely besties had fled to the woods for a simpler life. Well, it did not last. Queen Mo is back on the throne, an heir apparent and facing her greatest challenge yet. Produce an heir before her 40th birthday or lose everything and spend eternity as keeper of the Menstruary.

[Dana Carvey]

It's a very sticky sitch. Meanwhile, JoJo's botched wing enhancement surgery turns her into a toad, leading to unexpected interspecies romance and a choice between royal duty and normal life. With her throne on the line, Mo and JoJo embark on an increasingly unhinged scheme to secure succession. Part medieval mayhem, part razor sharp social commentary, Heads Will Roll Heir Apparent is fantasy comedy for the ages. It has everything trad wives, pollicules, Sasquatch, mercenaries, milk people, toad on mole romance, a child named Barbara. Seriously, everything?

[David Spade]

David, when was the last time you heard of a child named Barbara? Well, don't miss a moment of Kate McKinnon and the killer cast and Heads Will Roll Heir apparently. See the child or seed the throne. Listen to Heads Will Roll Heir Apparent available now on audible go to audible.com headsville rollseries to start listening today.

[Dana Carvey]

Republish. Get ready for the burn. As in David Byrne. Talking Heads much.

[David Spade]

Maybe you've heard of it. Maybe you've heard of them with the big boxy coat. Of course, I ask him about that. I drill him right between the eyes.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, he's. He's artiste. I mean, he gets up there. His choreography and his movements are just as big as the songs. It's right. He's very, very quirky, cool, laid back guy.

[David Spade]

Just like to say he's legendary. I mean, that the Talking Heads is one of those bands everyone's heard of. They might have a T shirt with. Talking Heads. David Byrne sort of runs the show over there. He's doing a play. I mean, he's. He's all over the place and he's a very influential dude. So Dane and I chatted up. I'm sure he was bored of tears with us, but who isn't?

[Dana Carvey]

I think he was mesmerized. I don't think he blinks. He was mesmerized by us.

[David Byrne]

That's.

[David Spade]

That's a better way to put it.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, he's. It was really fun to talk to him. He's, he's, he's quite a, you know, interesting Persona, enigma. Yeah. In some ways.

[David Spade]

Here he is, David Byrne.

[Dana Carvey]

When David Byrne comes on the zoom,

[David Spade]

Dana, that's the guy.

[Dana Carvey]

Here's this.

[David Byrne]

I'm on the zoom.

[Dana Carvey]

Wait a minute. I'm. I'm nearsighted.

[David Spade]

Hey, David.

[David Byrne]

Okay, I'm on the zoom. How are you doing?

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, we're doing incredible now that, now that you're here.

[David Byrne]

Nice to meet virtually.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes, this is. Is this your first zoom today?

[David Byrne]

No, it's my second one today.

[Dana Carvey]

Really Good. Did you. Did you have one with Lorne Michaels earlier? Go find David and Dana. Well, we'll try to make this interesting. Here's my first question. David, this is just to kind of be a little pithy. Has anyone ever used your last name against you in an argument? You burned me. Burn.

[David Byrne]

No, I don't think so. But yeah, there's some. Probably plenty of articles that they did make puns. You make puns like that, you know, burning down the house, but with like, with my name.

[David Spade]

Oh, right.

[David Byrne]

Things like that.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah. I was called Dana Car keys in grade school. And it drove me nuts.

[David Byrne]

Why Car keys.

[Dana Carvey]

Carvey car keys. It didn't. It didn't even make sense, but it brutalized me. I'm still wounded.

[David Spade]

It's basic bullying. David. My name is David Spade. Nice to meet you. I, I, first of all, I'm a little nervous because David has such a vast career and it's almost too much and we, it's almost like an ambition.

[Dana Carvey]

It's almost too much. I, I got exhausted doing too much.

[David Byrne]

Too much.

[Dana Carvey]

You it well or not enough but you've done so much. It's really kind of amazing. I just, I want to ask you things you haven't been asked for. But what I observed when I was watching you in some of these videos is the way you move. So I think of you as a dancer first and then singer, songwriter, filmmaker, pretty much everything artistic. So did was that conscious? Because it's kind of Polynesian to me. It's sort of slow, but it's very graceful.

[David Spade]

Interesting.

[Dana Carvey]

And it's graceful and it's inside the loop. You never are frenetic. It's very interesting to watch anyway. Am I the first person to ask you that or maybe the 20th?

[David Byrne]

I have been asking like, where does your dancing come from? I, I, I made a conscious Looks like you're falling. Uh huh.

[David Spade]

I may, I mean you're constantly tripping. That's what it looks like.

[David Byrne]

There it is. Yeah. I pretty on early on I thought to myself, I don't want to dance like move like other kind of rock

[Dana Carvey]

Jaeger or James Brown.

[David Byrne]

Yeah. So I thought oh yeah. I mean that's where the bar was set. Kind of.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

Those people and many others. And I just thought well there's no way I'm going to do that. And besides they've kind of cornered that. But they do that and they do it really well. So I have to find something that works for me. So I, for a long time I didn't do anything. And then gradually, little by little, I started kind of figuring out moves and things that kind of felt like they were coming from me and that they emerged from the music and they didn't feel like they seemed like anything else that I'd seen out there. They seemed a little bit odd sometimes, but they were.

[Dana Carvey]

It's charismatic because there's no overt effort and it just seems to work. I was watching the Jimmy Fallon thing from your show. That's what humans do. And your little choreography with everyone and how you'd go up and do the chorus and you come back and you're barefoot. I don't know, it's just, it's very charismatic because it's ultimately asking us to go at you. You're not coming at us with a lot of energy. It's all Just so relaxed. And you could do it till you're 90.

[David Byrne]

All right. Pretty much, I'm hoping. And then, yeah, I tend to go for things that don't look like. I've had a lot of dance training, which I haven't had. So they're the kind of thing that I hope that other people see it and go, oh, I could do that. I could be a dancer. If this guy can do it, I can do it.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna write that down. No moving to the music. It's very charismatic. So, anyway, David, do you have a question? Not you, David Byrne, but you. I know you can ask us questions, though.

[David Spade]

Of course. I.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[David Spade]

I was a little nervous because he is. He's very smart and I'm very smart. And Dana might feel weird on this

[Dana Carvey]

podcast, I feel, because, like a third wheel, I've got two giant brains in front of me.

[David Spade]

But I've seen interviews with you, and you seem, like, very light on your feet. And that was my first kind of thing because I grew up, my brother is smarter than me, and he's. He's very artistic. He eventually got into design. He started that Kate Spade handbag company with his wife, and he was. So. You were his favorite band. And so I'd hear it, and I didn't quite grasp the coolness of it. I just always thought it was kind of surfacey. Very. I like the songs. And then the older you get and you start to get in the words and what you're doing, there's so much going on there that it's. It makes it even more layers and layers and layers. And so that was fun. And then I. When I. When I saw that you were kind of fun and lighting your feet, that was nice to see, because sometimes you don't know what personality is behind all that. When you're so smart like that. And it's. It's great that it made it less nervous to talk to you.

[David Byrne]

Oh, good. Yeah. I'm glad it comes across that way. Yeah. I wouldn't want it to be like, oh, he thinks he's so smart, and,

[David Spade]

yeah, all that kind of thing. I'm really smart and I'm a little prickly to do it.

[Dana Carvey]

You're incredibly smart.

[David Spade]

But anyway.

[David Byrne]

Oh, okay.

[David Spade]

I keep throwing that in there, but no one even agrees.

[Dana Carvey]

I think you come off anti pretense. There's no sense of, like, look what I'm doing, you know, at all. It just seals. And I think for an artist, first time I'm going to use the word Playful, you know, and, and childlike in some ways and, and loose. So, I don't know. It's very interesting to watch.

[David Byrne]

Thank you. Yeah, yeah, I, I really enjoy it, and I hope the, your audiences can sense that I'm enjoying myself and having fun and sometimes having a laugh with it.

[David Spade]

Well, do you, you know, Dana, you know that he's, he's got an Academy Award, a Grammy, a Tony, and a Golden Globe. So he's got an egog, but no Emmy for the egot.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[David Byrne]

Wait, no, no. So, yeah. Oh, yeah, there's no E. Yeah, there's no E. So not quite.

[David Spade]

You've got a gog. Got. No, you don't have the E. You can't. You need a, you really need a vowel. You need something to keep this going. But Golden Globe is good. So what Emmy is Emmy on the future? Is this burning? Is this killing you that you don't have an Emmy? It's killing me that I don't.

[David Byrne]

That's all I think about now I'm

[David Spade]

in TV and I don't have one. And you, you might graze by it and win one. And, and I'm over here struggling every day in the salt mines.

[David Byrne]

Well, no, I, I, I, Yeah, honestly, no, I don't think about, I don't

[Dana Carvey]

think about it, but it's.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, yeah, I don't.

[David Spade]

You got enough stuff? I have a Saturday Night Live question because this is sort of the idea how we tricked you into this. But we don't have to talk about only Saturday Night Live when you go on. I always wonder with the music guests. And I never asked when I was there, do they tell you what songs to pick or do you say, I want to do these and what order? Cause you get two songs.

[David Byrne]

I remember early on, early on, I seem to recall being very pushy about it and saying, yeah, oh, they were. I was very pushy. I feel I remember myself being very pushy and going, I want to do this, I want to do this. And I, I think at one point, I don't know if it was on Saturday Night Live or Letterman or some show where I said, I want you to shoot it in black and white.

[Dana Carvey]

How bold.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, it was really, I was really pushy, you know, say, I want, you know, I want something that looks a little bit different, etc. Etc. And it, they, yeah, so it was.

[David Spade]

But I go back and forth, the record company where they say, we'd like this one sort of out there to help this album or whatever. Back then.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, I kind of Learned. You know, you learn after a while, you go, you got to give them the single or the song that's being promoted. And then for the second one, you can put in, you know, you can be a little more artistic and show them kind of the breadth of. Kind of the range of what you're. You're doing.

[David Spade]

Yeah, of course. That's what I kind of remember, is that the first one I usually knew. I remember when Pearl Jam was on and I. That was sort of my era, when I was there and when. But I was never one to get music right away, like I told you with my brother. So I liked Pearl Jam by the time they came back, and I liked Nirvana by the time they came back. And so I go, are you gonna alive? And they go, we did it last time. I go, you did? So by that time, I had loved it. So then I started to pay attention. But I'm always about a year back, like, Europe, so.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I. I was introduced by Lauren Michaels because I was staying at his house in 1986, before I was on SNL, but I was cast on SNL and I stayed for a month, and the Talking Heads played. I. I'm. I don't want to exaggerate. I'd say 12 hours a day throughout the house. Wow. You may find yourself. You may find yourself. And I fell in love with it. I was aware of you guys, and I knew that it was new, you know, it was a new, like, you're singing phrasing was like. Popped out to me, like Sinatra or something.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, it's. What. When did you first get that? Was that always there when you started your first band, that. You know, I don't know how you describe your vocalization, but it's very you. There's no one else does it quite. Quite like that.

[David Byrne]

It was a little more Yelpy at first.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, I did want to say that.

[David Byrne]

Yeah. It was a little more Yelpy at first. And then gradually, I kind of listening to other singers and records and things, I thought, oh, you know, I can. I can actually sing a melody if I have to, and I can do that. And that might be a way to get some things over.

[Dana Carvey]

I thought the same thing, but it didn't work out.

[David Byrne]

I might be able to do that. I remember last time we were on

[Dana Carvey]

Saturday Night Live, which is probably 2020 with John Mulaney, right? Yeah.

[David Spade]

Wow.

[David Byrne]

Just before the pandemic, like, weeks before, after we did the rehearsal, I got invited, or should I say called into the meeting with Lauren that The entire cast goes into. And I thought, oh, this didn't happen before. What's going to happen? And he gave me some notes. He, you know, single notes, sing. Gave me some notes.

[Dana Carvey]

What, do you remember them?

[David Spade]

Wow.

[Dana Carvey]

I think he probably a camera. Yeah.

[David Byrne]

It was. No, it was not about the moves. It was something about my vocal delivery. He felt it was a little too aggressive or something or other. There was some comment about adjusting my vocal delivery.

[Dana Carvey]

Okay.

[David Byrne]

And I wasn't sure exactly what he meant, but I thought, okay, okay, I'll just keep that in mind. Whatever he means, I'll keep it in mind.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

God. I can safely say I've never heard of that. I've never heard of Lorne giving notes of music except, you know, Sinead o' Connor telling her not to rip up the picture of the Pope. But it was a little late. He goes, you know, that's the stuff for rehearsal.

[Dana Carvey]

And then he handed her some Scotch tape and said, it goes back together just as easily. It was ripped.

[David Spade]

Maybe no one will notice, but probably

[Dana Carvey]

a lot of people would give notes in, you know, one word, you know, basically like, we're about to start a sketch. And he would just say, it has to breathe just like that. You know, probably with you would be like, if you could bring it down a notch and let it come to you or something like that. Usually there's some wisdom in it. But I, you know, I. I wouldn't give you notes. I wouldn't have the guts to say, David, you know, when it comes to singing, I. But, Lauren, I like that I like,

[David Spade]

say black and white because you're like sort of a pre Kanye where you're, you know, these artistic minds come on there and it feels like it's a certain stamp. I know the look of where the music is. I know the coloring of the lighting every week. I know what it's going to look like. And it does take someone to walk in and say, what if we shoot it a little differently? Or, what if we shot it over there? Or what if we shot it outside? Or what if we made it black and white? I like that. Because no one does that. They just come in. They do it and leave like you're supposed to. And I love that you're throwing things out, though.

[David Byrne]

It was. I didn't want it to have, like, the standard rock and roll lighting with the colored lights flashing and all that kind of stuff. I thought, how can I. How can I easily avoid that? And so that was probably the idea there. But by the time we went in like 2020 or whenever. There was much more. There was much more. Kind of a collaboration with the director and the lighting people and all. Everybody was super accommodating. Like, okay, we. We've seen what you're doing, so we'll try and do that.

[David Spade]

Right. When I was there, it was only. Dana, do you agree? It was only for blocking. Like, they would come in on probably Thursday before we would rehearse. We didn't even get to rehearse until Thursday night. The sketches. That's how late in the game. If people don't know that. So music comes in and they get like an hour or two, but they do their songs. It's really. Camera's gonna get here. They just wanna see the song just for cameras. But it was always the same lighting. Pretty much. I think later in the years, they started to play with it a little bit, but I don't think there was a lot of thought. I do. Like, when they met, they play with it and guys like, you are great because, you know, that's what you want. You want different, you want it memorable.

[Dana Carvey]

Is it kind of interesting, you, David, like David Byrne?

[David Spade]

I never think you're talking to me. Don't worry, Go ahead.

[Dana Carvey]

Just that when you have a long career and then it becomes long and then you come back and you look great, you're at the top of your game. And do people like, in my little teeny world, I go a little comedy club and I feel like I'm a museum piece. Like, he's still here, I still recognize him. And he's doing the church lady. So there's. There is this. People must respond to you in a different way or just in a warm way, or there's something. And it's like, Lord, there's something about seeing you again and you. And you look great, you move great. The songs are great. Your voice is still there. Perfect.

[David Spade]

So voice is strong.

[Dana Carvey]

You can comment on that or not. I'm talking too much. Go ahead.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, there's always. There's always a portion of the audience. They're kind of the. Kind of the. The kind of the original fans that are kind of my age or just a little bit younger maybe, who have a kind of legacy sense of all that.

[Dana Carvey]

Their journey.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's part of their journey too. And that's kind of nice. They. I think they expect to see something different from me, which is a nice kind of opportunity for me. And of course, the younger audience that comes often has no idea what to expect.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I think they expect that they just picture one of their songs and they're going to do it. Exactly. That's the way I picture concerts. And when you come out, at least you come with that baggage of which is. Baggage sounds negative, but they know that you are out of the box. And so anything's really possible when you're out there. So not to expect really anything.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, yeah. As long as you don't. You don't antagonize them or give them things. Do things that are just like, oh, I'm going to piss off the audience by indulging myself in, you know, a half hour of just talking to you or.

[David Spade]

Drum solo.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, yeah, the drum solo. Whatever. Yeah.

[David Spade]

I have a question about. Oh, go ahead, Dana.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, I. I would just like. You've managed to just always surprise. And so, you know, I just wanted one lane of show business is money and how to do that. And you keep reinventing yourself all around a certain general theme, but it is always new. And so how did you. Did you ever get a offer to sell out?

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Like in the 80s, a commercial, and just for millions of dollars or something like that. Or how have you managed to stay an artist again all the way through, stay totally cool and manage the business side of it all?

[David Byrne]

Sell out?

[Dana Carvey]

You mean, like do lemonade commercial or.

[David Byrne]

Oh, yeah, lemonade commercials and things like. Yeah, there have been few offers for.

[Dana Carvey]

I've done commercials, I'll be honest.

[David Byrne]

And things like that. And I'm of a generation where you kind of musicians kind of avoided that if they could.

[David Spade]

Yes.

[David Byrne]

I realize that now. It's actually encouraged. It's like, if that's what you do to get your music to a larger audience, then you should do it.

[Dana Carvey]

Yep.

[David Spade]

Oh, my God. It's like, first of all, just in full disclosure, I've never said no to anything. Now, also, a lot of these musicians, it used to be. But Eddie Vedder, you know, you remember that. You know, I won't even do Ticketmaster. I won't do this. All these things that made sense at the time, which was actually hard to run a concert, I'm sure back then when you're saying, I can't sell out if I do this corporate. This corporate. But corporations own the arena. They own. It's just hard to avoid, I'm sure. So you can comment on that if you want, but it is.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, I'm. I. Wow. I was really impressed at Eddie Vedder and that they kind of decided we want to do this tour without Ticketmaster and whatever, because our fans are tired of Paying all these extra costs that get added on and all the scalping stuff that goes on with the com. In these ticket sales things are complicit in this with the scalpers. And, you know, they were trying. They were trying to kind of do the right thing, but it is. Yeah, it's a really hard thing for them to do. And I admired them for giving it a try.

[David Spade]

Yes, I did, too. I thought, wow, I didn't. And then you look and you go, oh, Ticketmaster is kind of racking everyone. You know, if you get. Break it down. And then when you hear they're sort of in bed with the scalpers and stub up or whatever. I don't know for sure, but you know how it is. And you go. So they buy some, they sell them right back, and they give them the first third of the ticket. It's just so weird because you go, yeah, every time I turn around, one minute later, they're marked up to 800 bucks. You go, normal fans don't have a chance. And the artist wants the normal fans to be able to pay the real ticket price. That's bad enough, really. And then just get in there and have a good time. And they feel like they're part of it, being the bad guy when they're not. But that's what it looks like.

[David Byrne]

And now there's the whole thing of, I guess, what they call dynamic pricing,

[Dana Carvey]

where that doesn't sound good to know.

[David Byrne]

No, yeah, yeah. It's. They've done it on Broadway for a long time, but now they're kind of moving it into concerts where, you know, with a big artist, like, there was a big brouhaha about Bruce Springsteen tickets, because if there's a high demand for kind of the prime seats for a show like that, they'll jack the prices up for those. Now, they might still keep some cheap seats in the back, but the ones up front will just go. They're kind of trying to beat the scalpers in a way. But that means that 1200.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

The prices start going up into the scalper range, where it's over $1,000. Wow. And, yeah, the fans are just going. That's not what was originally listed.

[David Spade]

I know. That's not really the plan. Like, I don't really get that. Because they're going to make the scalper money up front instead of the scalpers.

[David Byrne]

They're saying that, yes, at least if we do that, the money goes to the artist. But it's still pretty tough. It's still pretty tough on the fans.

[David Spade]

Hey, before we jump back into the show, let's take a quick break. All right, not just any break. This is a refreshing break with Snapple. We all know about Snapple's iconic real facts, so let's take a minute to go over some of my faves.

[Dana Carvey]

Snapple Real fact 455 movie trailers used to come on at the end of the movies, but no one stuck around to watch them.

[David Spade]

I've heard that. Snapple Real Fact 831 adults laugh only about 15 to 100 times a day, while preschoolers laugh an average of 300 times a day.

[Dana Carvey]

Snapple Real Fact 1983 the first player drafted to play pro football never played in the league.

[David Spade]

That's interesting. Snapple Real fact 1274 kickball is referred to as soccer baseball in some parts of Canada. Hmm.

[Dana Carvey]

So grab a Snapple, take a second, enjoy the moment.

[David Spade]

Because let's be honest, this might be the most refreshing part of your day. Snapple, make your break more interesting.

[Dana Carvey]

History that Doesn't Suck is a legit, hard hitting American history podcast told through entertaining stories. As we approach America's 250th anniversary, now might be the time to go back and learn how we got here. With more than 200 episodes, you can binge your way decade by decade, defining event to defining event from the founding into the 20th century. Join me, Professor Greg Jackson for History that Doesn't Suck. An Odyssey Podcast available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Summer what do you think about summer coming up?

[David Spade]

Sneaks up on me. Yeah, I know it is coming up. I'm trying to juggle plans, juggle meals and enjoy the weather. Instacart's made that easier. I can sit outside, build my car with everything I need for the week, not have to step away from what I'm doing.

[Dana Carvey]

I've been leaning on delivery through Instacart for meal prep, especially David. Like getting fresh veggies, proteins, even those perfectly ripe avocado. I set my preferences once and it's so seamless it saves me a lot of time and makes sure I'm getting all the quality I want. And the convenience is huge.

[David Spade]

You know, when I'm busy or just don't feel like making a store run, I can order in the morning and have everything ready for the same day. And sometimes in as fast as 30 minutes, it just fits into my schedule instead of the other way around. Instacart brings convenience, quality and ease right to your door so you can focus on what matters most. Download the Instacart app now and get

[Dana Carvey]

groceries how you like and do it instantly.

[David Byrne]

Do you something that's a little. Maybe a little more unusual in my world. Do you both go into clubs like you said, go into comedy clubs in different places and could try out new material that way and kind of make a surprise appearance somewhere and go, okay, I gotta try some stuff out. And the only way I know what works is to do it live.

[Dana Carvey]

David does it a lot?

[David Spade]

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I have to. I have to, because I'm kind of on a tour right now, and when you're people are paying and it's a bigger theater, you have to try. But I've always done that because it's always the only way to even keep going. So luckily in la, there's the Improv and the Comedy Store and the Laugh Factory. So you can go in, you can go in anytime. I mean, they're nice enough to say, just come in whenever you drive by. You can go up and do whatever you want. And so you try it. And there's a lot of great comedians there. The only thing these days is some comics are having them put the phones in those zip bags, because you can't work on a new special if people are leaking it on YouTube the next morning or put it on their TikTok or whatever, and then all your jokes are out there. So it's not like building up for a special someone like Eddie Murphy. I would see having a real problem coming back to stand up, because where do you practice where people aren't going to film you and leak everything? And if it's not that funny because you're really working it, they're going to see that and say, oh, he's not that good anymore. And you're like, well, this is how I used to do it in little clubs. And then the world sees it. But like a band, I don't know. I don't know. There's. There's. That's the only way to do it well for me.

[Dana Carvey]

And I want to ask you a question. Music, DAVID the I started in small clubs, and I didn't know I was. I wasn't really a standup. I was a sketch player. So the small clubs allowed me to go, I'm going to be a character for two minutes. And then as I got on TV and stuff, I played bigger rooms, and I found it much more of a heavy lifting for me, unless there were screens. So I love the small clubs, and with comedy, it's always a surprise. So ideally, you Vetted it in a small room. So when you go to the big room, you don't go, da, da, da, da, da, da, and then get a laugh. But did you, when you were in the 70s in those low ceiling clubs and your first band was just kicking in? There's a certain some energy to that, but you've played all kinds. You have, you have a show that you do occasionally. Only 16 audience members can come in at a time that we'll get to that in a second. Your fascination with the brain and neuroplasticity and all that. But in terms of rooms, what's your favorite size room or it's the room you're in? I guess Broadway's pretty intimate in its own way.

[David Byrne]

Broadway is fairly intimate. I like that size room. You can still. It's big, but you can still get a sense of all the people. I still feel like, as you probably do, I still feel like I'm speaking right to them and they're listening to me. And if there's a reaction, I can respond to their reaction. And sometimes I can, you know, as you might do, if you get a laugh, you try and say something else that's going to put a laugh on top of the laugh and. Yes, yeah, that kind of thing. But you can't, you, you can't like make that up at home. You can't like write that. You have to see how the audience reacts.

[Dana Carvey]

That's the best place to be, is in the moment. Kind of like with us right now, life is really about that. Listening and being in the moment. Certainly performing, never trying to force it, don't anticipate it all. I think before I go out on stage, the last word I say to myself is, have fun. Because if I forget to have fun, it can unravel pretty quickly. If people are drunk or it's a shitty audience or I blew a joke. But always have fun. That helps me a lot. What do you say right before your show, David? David?

[David Byrne]

What do I say?

[Dana Carvey]

Ladies and gentlemen, American Utopia, David Byrne. Do you, do you have any ritual or prayer or just like take a deep breath and. Or you just walk out and usually

[David Byrne]

the band and I are kind of backstage and we're all on like our mics and everything like that, so we can all talk to one another, but. Yeah, but nobody else can hear us. And so there's a lot of joking around, like, okay, who's out there tonight?

[Dana Carvey]

Right? Just a lot.

[David Byrne]

People take a peek and go, oh, there's, yeah, there's, there's a really Strange looking person in the front row. Or there's a kid. There's a kid in the front row who's sleeping.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. To lighten it up. Yeah, sure.

[David Spade]

Yeah, that's. You know, I do the same thing. I. I peek out in the front and try to go, is there anyone I want to mention or say anything? Because when you're live, you can. Can sort of. I do one crowd work. I go out the audience and I go. I go, what are you guys having nachos? And they go, yep. And I go, oh, is an anniversary or something? And then I just. I go, that's my crowd work, folks. I get one laugh, and then I move on.

[Dana Carvey]

The worst crowd work ever.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Because I go, I did. It looks like they. They really like it in stand up. And probably in music when you're doing something that they think is not the hand stamp show. So if you're in a crowd, you even. Obviously, in music, you just mentioned the city, they get excited. You know what I mean? Even though you're reading it off the back of a mic stand. But if you just say, you know, I saw the Eagles and they were like, on a dark Arizona highway. And everyone goes, whoa.

[Dana Carvey]

Anything will.

[David Spade]

That's where we live.

[Dana Carvey]

Anything.

[David Spade]

Cool Scottsdale. Wind in my hair. And everyone's like, my friend lives in Scottsdale. They go, warm smell of ASU Stadium. And everyone's like, all right, just sing the song, dude.

[Dana Carvey]

Why? I always tell them, what. What's. The rival. The rival town. So if you're playing Fresno. And I go, oh, yeah, that's a good. They go, we hate Modesto. Then I go out and I just say, modesto sucks. And I've got him. It's the easiest thing in the world.

[David Spade]

Or you go, that joke was funny. This guy from Modesto doesn't get it.

[Dana Carvey]

And then it's a running. Running gag.

[David Spade]

David, you can use any of these. Any of them.

[David Byrne]

Okay. Okay.

[David Spade]

Just take them with you. It's so funny. Oh, I have a question about your. One of my favorite songs, Wildlife. The video isn't the video have a ton of cameos in it?

[David Byrne]

Yeah, it's people. It's meant to be like a karaoke night or something like that where.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

People are jumping up and singing a line. It's kind of taken off on that. And people. The audience members are kind of dressing up like their favorite singers or whatever.

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great one. And that one. Was Buscemi in it, or am I crazy?

[David Byrne]

No, it was not Buscemi. Was a local guy in Dallas that looked like Buscemi.

[David Spade]

Oh, for real?

[David Byrne]

Yes.

[David Spade]

Oh, my God. I was about to say, who is in that thing? Because that was such a fun video and such a great song. I still cranking on my ipod. Is ipod something?

[Dana Carvey]

Ipod.

[David Spade]

That's what I have on my phone. Yeah, it's on my phone. But whatever. Believe me. And I'm these guys. I'm one of these guys that I get those Apple songs and they're 99 cents or whatever. And so instead of joining something, I just go, well, I already have this. I don't want to learn anything new. And I realize I have 20,000 songs, so I've spent 20,000.

[David Byrne]

It's.

[David Spade]

It's the dumbest thing I could ever do, but I just keep doing it one by one, and they're just adding up. I'm like, I think this isn't smart, but love that. Take Me to the river has a great beginning. I'm just. I'm. I'm going through your songs now, which is. I know you get bored by that, but it's. It's great because I'm asking. So it's something different. Take Me to the River, Dana. You know, that one is such a killer beginning.

[Dana Carvey]

Brilliant.

[David Spade]

And the only thing you need in the middle when you go, drop me in the water, you could have me up there, and I'll go, oh, that's

[Dana Carvey]

his best sound effect.

[David Spade]

So if I'm ever there, I'll jump up. And could have added that everyone can't do it. And as we've said before, the MTV generation growing up with me, the V was for the videos, and it was for the music. And it wasn't 24 hours of ridiculousness, which is a show which is actually really good. But they used to have more than one show on their end. Music videos. No one believes me, but that was a really fun time. When you probably got a new song. It's probably kind of fun where they go. The next step, literally, is, what's your video? Is that kind of how it was?

[David Byrne]

Yeah, I really enjoyed making videos back then. You could. You had a song, you thought, okay, this might be the single, and you could go out and do a video kind of cheaper, cheaply, kind of more cheaply than you can do today, actually. And, you know, they'd run it. They were desperate for material. Oh, and then you were getting all their material for free from the record company. So if you could give them a video, they'd start running it within a week, which was just Kind of amazing for us.

[David Spade]

It's great. Well, yeah, you have blank slate and you're kind of an artist. You are an artist, so that must be fun. You've got a song which you already wrote. You made that. That was one breakthrough. And now a song is working. And then you go, oh, now I get one more crack at it. What is the scary thing is, what's everyone going to remember forever? Because you sort of. At my age, I would just picture the video when I hear the song.

[David Byrne]

Exactly. So you had to be a little bit careful because, you know, that's what's going to be burned into people's minds.

[David Spade]

Yes, for sure.

[David Byrne]

Yeah. We discovered that there were songs that in those days, songs that broke because of the video.

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[David Byrne]

The radio maybe wasn't really playing it that much, and then the video would. People would just. They'd play it over and over again, and then the radio would kind of be forced to play it.

[David Spade]

Yeah, for sure. Because it took on a new life.

[Dana Carvey]

And it did seem, obviously, going back a little bit, your art school roots, like John Lennon, seemed like it was a natural fit for you. Everything had an artistic bed, and for a second, just American Utopia, the album in the show, it would appear to me that would be as satisfying as anything you've done. This recent Broadway run. Because the way you reinvented Broadway, I mean, you can speak to that. I mean, you reinvented it with that stage show by everyone being mobile. That's pretty brilliant. I mean, go ahead. Will you talk to that?

[David Byrne]

To me, that.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

Starting way back with music videos, but being able to kind of do a stage show like that, it was kind of bringing together everything that got me excited, whether it was the staging or the choreography or the lighting and all those things. I kind of bring it all together in one package. And the trick with. The trick with Broadway, I think, was getting the sound to be like, not Broadway sound. The sound of the sound mix on Broadway musicals tends to be of a certain type. We thought, no, we want this to sound like. We want this to sound like a real concert. We need people to understand the words and all that, which is you can't always do at a music concert, but we need to do that. But, yeah, that was. That was a little bit of an uphill battle, but it worked.

[Dana Carvey]

Really inspiring for the percussion section. So you knew you wanted the drummers to move, so you needed. Rather than the drummer behind the kit. So you had multiple drummers, almost like a marching band moving about in choreography. It's Just how were you? Did you do every show, David? Were you starring in every show? I had to, I'd assumed who could substitute for you.

[David Spade]

But not going if he's.

[Dana Carvey]

How did you pace yourself with that? I mean, it's something.

[David Spade]

Is that a beating? I mean, I do 60 minutes of stand up and I lay down in a hammock afterwards and people fan me.

[Dana Carvey]

I was packed in ice earlier today. I was paid packed and I get

[David Spade]

packed in my tub at the holiday

[Dana Carvey]

on a regular basis. But, but obviously you were having so much fun that that keeps fatigue at bay. You were enjoying it?

[David Byrne]

Yeah, I was enjoying it. I paced myself. Yes.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

I, I ran into Hugh Jackman, had a dinner once. So I. So before I did the show on Broadway.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

I reached out to him and said I'm not used to doing, you know, shows, whatever, six or seven days a week or whatever it might be. Do you think I can do this and do you have any advice for me? Because he's the only person I could think of who had done like a one man show. Singing the whole show.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

On Broadway.

[Dana Carvey]

He's an athlete. Yeah, yeah.

[David Byrne]

And so I asked him, do you think I can do this? And he said, yeah, you could. Do you know, how's your voice? Yeah, voice is fine. They said, you know, he said, don't go to parties after. Don't go, don't visit your, don't hang out with your friends in a bar after because you will end up talking louder in a bar than you are singing on stage. And that will wear. That's like doing a whole nother show.

[Dana Carvey]

Smart.

[David Byrne]

So he said, don't do that. Meet him for lunch the next day. Then he said, if you got two shows, don't pick a nap in between the two shows because that's your first inclination is phew, got through that. Now I need to like rest up before the next one. He said, no, no, no, no, because then your whatever, your energy and stuff will just drop down to zero and you got to build it all back up again for the next show. He said, you just got to, you know, push through it and then you'll be ready for the next one.

[Dana Carvey]

Could I possibly, after the this, get the Hugh Jackman's.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I need his information because he

[Dana Carvey]

seems to really be good about advising.

[David Spade]

I want my life coach.

[Dana Carvey]

Just whatever. Hugh jackman.com.

[David Spade]

but he also sounds boring after the show, lay down in a hyperbolic chamber until the next show. I'm like, well, how can I go out and get my kudos I need some high fives.

[Dana Carvey]

I would have told you, pack yourself in ice before the first show. Get repacked in between shows and. And pack. So how did you. How did you come down then to go to sleep or. Do you have a scotch on the rocks? Do you meditate?

[David Byrne]

Yeah, yeah, I'd have a couple of glass. I'd go home, have a couple of glasses of wine and watch, like, some TV show.

[Dana Carvey]

I call it Brain Candy. Right. Just something that.

[David Byrne]

Brain Candy. Nothing. Nothing too heavy.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

Nothing too emotional. That would kind of make me dream weird dreams, stuff like that.

[David Spade]

Just a Saw movie franchise. I usually watch that.

[Dana Carvey]

If you want to put on movies called Clean Slate or Opportunity Knox.

[David Byrne]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

I guarantee you, David, you are out within five minutes. You're like, what the. Give me a little shard that may. You may want to have a third glass of wine. Be careful about that. When you see an abomination, you know, it starts to tip. There's two things I'm really interested. One is your fascination with the brain. And I was gonna. I was curious what your thoughts are with the studies about psilocybin or ketamine in terms of helping with addiction and helping the brain. Because you've done a lot of stuff around the brain. You have that show where you come out with a brain. You talk about the brain. Oh, yeah. And so where are you at with that now? What's your thought with the brain? What are you doing with the brain?

[David Byrne]

I haven't tried any of those therapies. I watched the Michael Pollan show about

[Dana Carvey]

psilocybin and stuff like that.

[David Byrne]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Oh, you haven't done them?

[David Byrne]

I haven't done them, but I kind of watched the show. It was all about that. Treating those things as therapy and all that stuff. LSD and everything, were used pretty successfully, it seems, for therapy until it was, you know, made illegal.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

And then. Then it was just like silence. No more research. You couldn't touch it.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

Everything. Any kind of beneficial stuff that it did was all denied and shoved aside.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

It was all this government propaganda about how you would have babies that look like fish or whatever.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

And. But now that's kind of. People are kind of getting back into it and kind of treating it seriously as a therapeutic thing. And it's. I. I sort of thought, okay, probably have to monitor it really carefully, see how people respond. But for some things. Yeah. Like post traumatic stress, things like that, it seems like it does help people.

[Dana Carvey]

I was told this. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I want to hear your Response to this is just that non psychoactive psilocybin drops over time daily create bigger neural pathways. And the metaphor was told to me is that if you're stuck on a cycle of thinking that's negative or whatever, it's like a little river going down or a little stream going down a giant canyon. When you do these psilocybin drops over a period of time, your thoughts start to emancipate and you're seeing a gush of water, a big giant whoosh of water going down and it frees open that negative pattern. So anyway, thoughts, either of you guys?

[David Byrne]

Yeah, I could definitely see that that could be the case that yeah, we, we do get stuck in, in our ways of thinking. If somebody's had a traumatic experience, they just kind of play that movie over and over again and they need to kind of find a way out of it.

[David Spade]

And people are non trusting. The pharmaceutical companies more and more so they're trying to, you know, Eastern medicine. There's different things that everyone wants to try just to say, what if there's something from the earth? What if there's something that I just haven't tried that they don't, they don't seem to want me to try? But it might be great for me. And I know a lot of people doing Special K now and microdosing and I really didn't know it was for real treatment other than just recreational. But they are.

[Dana Carvey]

Special K is ketamine, right?

[David Spade]

Ketamine, yeah, special and. But you hear it's a horse tranquilizer. So you go, well, I mean I can't even do zquil. I can't do a full teaspoon. So I go, I don't think I need that because I. A horse is bigger than me.

[Dana Carvey]

The last horse I saw, ketamine is supposed to like, you go on a pretty heavy trip. And I guess if it works for your brain, what I'm told is that it, you're able to get outside yourself and you're able to laugh at yourself and you have these revelations that last even though you have a bit of nausea for a couple days and for three months you're just freed from that locked negative thinking. So what do you, David, if you have the blues, you're feeling kind of down. Do you go on a bike ride? Because you're a big bike guy, you're always on.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, I'll do that. Yeah, I'll do that. You know, I don't get the blues. I don't get depressed that often. And we all do Sometimes. But in general, I'm pretty upbeat and if. If I'm going through a difficult period, I'll just kind of go, okay, just keep going.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

Yeah. That thing you did is look. Yeah, that thing you did failed, or it looks like it's not going to happen, or. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Could you possibly work that into a song like, I don't ever get the blues. You know, it's a blues song about a guy. You might find yourself not getting the blues. Sorry I had to do that. Same as it ever was.

[David Byrne]

No, I don't think nobody want. I don't think people want to hear that. They don't want to hear, like, I'm a super happy guy.

[David Spade]

Yeah. You know, blues does better.

[David Byrne]

My life is great and it's kind of like, well, fuck you.

[Dana Carvey]

My latest self, Talk David. Both David's is. I just say, big life, big life, big life. If. If you try a career, if you have children, if you have marriages, if you travel, if you buy things, if you make money, you can lose money. So big life, up and down. So you just accept it when problems come. This is big life, big problems. And, you know, that's your own self. Talk right to yourself. And that. That helps. Could I. I'm interested in this because you seem so future all the time.

[David Spade]

Ask about that art stuff.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, the. The robots have arrived. They're here. They're studying us. They're. They're manipulating us. They're making everybody angry and they're doing all kinds of things. And now they're in art. They're riding the hook. They're all over music. You don't have to write the music, you don't have to sing the music. You point to guys with AIs on computers and then you. They put it together in a lab. And now in art and visual art, recently, an AI drew a painting. They put in all this information, and it won first prize at this art show. And the real artists were really angry. So it just seems to me that since you're always future. Future. Are you going to incorporate with AI or what are your thoughts about that? Integrating with art? Sorry.

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah, it's his favorite things, meeting together.

[Dana Carvey]

Okay.

[David Byrne]

No, I. To be honest, no, I haven't thought about doing that. And I remember reading about that, seeing the picture and thought, picture's kind of nice. Picture's kind of nice.

[Dana Carvey]

I saw it. Yeah.

[David Byrne]

It's not. Not exactly what I would do, you know, but. Okay, that's. Yeah, nothing wrong with that.

[David Spade]

I blame the guy buying it because. Because I blame the person would buy that art or pay a lot of money for it because you don't want to make a market for that.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[David Spade]

It is. There is something about what art is about coming from someone. Is that the picture, Dana?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, it's just one I did recently. Could have a robot make that.

[David Spade]

No, that's good.

[David Byrne]

Yes. I sort of doubt it, but a

[David Spade]

four year old could.

[Dana Carvey]

Someone was really bugging me. That's the person on top in the bubble and I was on the bottom and they were.

[David Spade]

I love it. Dana's got good art. That's real. I like.

[Dana Carvey]

No, it's just heartfelt. It's a cliche. Yeah. I'm not the artist, but I do do it for my own processing of thoughts, so.

[David Byrne]

But I doubt that a machine would do that. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

That's the greatest thing anyone's ever said to me. David Burns said a machine could not do my. No, I, I understand what you're saying and I, I agree with you. I don't like it. I. I still think the human soul or the human brain can create stuff. And I think. Well, I was reading your exit essay after American Utopia and about. You find out later, and it doesn't sound pretentious, but you find out later kind of what you were writing about, commonly in your writing and in your art, that you're kind of doing it spontaneously from some place and it may be not literal. And then a year later or whatever, you kind of figure out what it was. And I was interested. At the very end you said American Utopia. It's not ironic.

[David Byrne]

Yes. Which is kind of a surprise coming from me because some of my material is ironic.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[David Byrne]

But in this case, I thought. No, no, no, no. I want to really hold out some kind of. Either visually or in the songs and in the way we present it, the whole attitude. What I say, I want to hold out some kind of hope that all the things that we wish we could be and what we could be as a country and all that, they're not all entirely out of reach, that we do have possibilities.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, for me, I just read history and then I feel better. Right. When the pandemic hit, I read a book, the Splendid and the Vile. It was a brilliant book, but it was a new one about Churchill and the Blitz in, In London. And, you know, it just helped calm me down. Or read about the plague or the Middle Ages and it gives you perspective. I've seen people on an iPhone with a latte going, is this is the worst time to be alive? You know? And there Was no medicine until like maybe 50 years ago you have a heart attack, they'd shake your hand and give you a baby aspirin. See you later. Now they can put all this stuff in you. So you're kind of on this, this wavelength because you have this reason to be cheerful online thing. You're on this sort of happy cheerful. You know, if American utopia means it's possible, that's very up message.

[David Byrne]

Yes.

[Dana Carvey]

Reasons to reason to be cheerful. What are the reasons to be cheerful? David Byrne?

[David Byrne]

Well, wow. We report on a lot of stuff. I haven't done a lot of writing for them recently, but we have a group of writers. They look for places around the world where people have found solutions to like, yeah, if some place in Italy where the, the sea was getting overfished and they kind of, the fisher fish communities, the fishermen communities, they get together and then go, okay, we're going to manage this because we know if we overfish this, we're all screwed. We don't, that's our livelihood. So we have to kind of manage it. And they kind of figure out a way to do that, a way to kind of look out for people who were kind of breaking the rules or whatever. And sure enough, the fish come back and their, their catch increases and so they end up making more money than they did before. You know, happy ending.

[Dana Carvey]

Good news is not reported. Yeah, go ahead.

[David Spade]

Yeah, nice to hear that stuff.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, we're biased towards bad news. We like to hear bad news. Scary stuff.

[Dana Carvey]

It feeds part of our brain, right, somehow.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, it's part of our brain. We like to be aware of what, what kind of lions and tigers are looming around the corner as opposed to the nice stuff. So it's a little bit of an uphill battle. But, but you know, this stuff is happening. I'm surprised at how much of it the writers are finding.

[Dana Carvey]

You're right. I mean it's probably an old stand up bit, but there's never a news flash. Breaking news. 200 million people are relatively happy in North America. It's always going to be death and pain. And I get, I get it on. I'll go down the rabbit hole a little bit in the morning and I go to myself, I said, I'm being hypnotized into darkness.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Because whatever is bad with the robot stirring it is going to be presented 10 times as bad. And it is, it's, it's a trap to, to be unhappy your whole life. Because I know tribal people, we don't really talk politics here, but they're in both camps. And they're both just so angry. And I'm like, what good is this doing right now? All this fury. But you're right. What. What. What part of the brain is that? Feeding is some primal part of our hypothalamus.

[David Byrne]

It seems like it is. It's some sort of primal part that obviously evolved for. For something really useful to us. War. To. To. Yeah. To be aware that. What's that. What's that moving in the jungle? What's that moving.

[Dana Carvey]

Fight or flight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Byrne]

I'd rather. If I run away, it might not be anything, but if I run away, I'm going to be all right. But if I stay and wait to find out, I might be dead. So better to run away.

[Dana Carvey]

Better.

[David Byrne]

Better be to be fearful and suspicious than to just kind of sit it out and go, well, let's wait and see what it is.

[Dana Carvey]

And it's a bioevolutionary. It's a Darwinian proposition because the people didn't run away, didn't live long enough to have kids. So we're predisposed, all of us, to be a little kind of jumpy because the ones who weren't are dead.

[David Byrne]

Exactly. Yeah. And the algorithms on all the stuff kind of feed on that. Can feed on our propensity.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Covid was a real boon for them because it was like the first case got to America, and they're like, projecting 10 million dead. I go, well, someone just sneezed. That's it. One guy tested positive. We don't even know what's going on. They're like, no, no, right now. You better make funeral arrangements. I'm like, so it's like that, where it's like a half truth or there's a piece of a truth where they can run with it, and they run hard with it, and they don't run the other way. It's always, could be worse, might get worse, probably worse. Instead of like, hey, we might pull out of this. And that's a tough one to live with every day. And that was hard, especially during COVID because nothing else is really happening in your life except bad news on the TV 24 hours a day.

[Dana Carvey]

It's tough.

[David Byrne]

Yeah. You could just dig really deep into that. There's not much else to do.

[David Spade]

Do. Summer is finally here. And honestly completely changes the way I look at my closet. I find myself reaching for those things that are lighter, obviously, more breathable.

[Dana Carvey]

Absolutely.

[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Spade]

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[Dana Carvey]

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[David Byrne]

When you're out, you're on tour.

[David Spade]

Yes.

[David Byrne]

David, Are the audiences back?

[David Spade]

You know, they, they, they are and they're, they're excited and it seems like they want to laugh and they don't really want it. Super PC. They seem to appreciate that if you're a comedian, the ones that come out to the clubs that aren't on Twitter 24 hours a day complaining about it. There are some people that just say just go do it. We'll decide if we like it or not, but give it to us and if we don't like it, we'll boo. And that's part of the fun. Or we'll not laugh. But as a comedian is sort of an art also, and you want to say whatever you want. And that's usually how it was working for a long, long time. And then people are being scared to get canceled, and they don't want to say the wrong thing. So we don't want the world to turn into the. The eight. Everyone's telling the same eight jokes that are approved by America, you know, and that's what happens. You go, okay, I walked out and everyone was happy. And no, people go, it wasn't funny. But I didn't get mad, thank God. And you go, well, you got to sort of crack some eggs here. Yeah, you gotta. I don't get mad. I never try to get complaint comedians when they're not funny or they do something too far. I'm like, I would say they probably won't do that again or they might tweak it. But it's not my place to tell them to complain about and say, get off stage. It's stupid to me.

[David Byrne]

Yeah. And I've been to shows where somebody's done some stuff where I go, oh, I think they crossed a line just across the line right there. But the rest of the show was really great. And I remember I've been to some shows where I had to put my phone in the bag. I. I have no problem with it.

[Dana Carvey]

But do you go to comedy shows, David, or.

[David Byrne]

Every once. Every once.

[David Spade]

I love it.

[David Byrne]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, I want to see you in the. Sitting in the back one day. That'd be awesome.

[David Spade]

I'd be nervous.

[Dana Carvey]

I'd bring up this podcast.

[David Byrne]

No, I'm there to laugh and have a good time.

[Dana Carvey]

I think to your original idea, David Burr, was that, yes, we've run into a little roadblock now with Ukraine and the economy, but there was a period, a short period pre, post Covid, where the Roaring twenties had it after the Spanish flu of the let's dance and get drunk and just because this could go away. So I think there was a gusher of ticket sales initially to.

[David Spade]

And then it went away.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, now. Now we're. We're not having a roaring. We're having all this other stuff again right now. And Covid, who knew, as Dr. Fauci would say, who knew there was so many mutations.

[David Byrne]

I didn't know.

[Dana Carvey]

I thought you'd be dancing in the street. But for me personally, being someone who does impressions as part of what I do, political comedy is the hottest oven of all of balancing that balancing act. Because you've got, you know, it's tribal and stuff, but, you know, I try to do Biden and I do Trump, but it's a delicate dance. I mostly want to have my true North Star to be funny. But have you found that in any of your work? Now you're doing art exhibits at the PACE Gallery. Trees and things which are awesome. On gigantic walls. They're beautiful. So where are you on the political spectrum? Can you. Who are you voting? Don't go there.

[David Spade]

No, but do you bring it into your. Are you careful about anything when you're out there? You stay away from things.

[David Byrne]

Wow. When I was doing American Utopia, there was. Yeah. I would do some talking stuff sometimes about issues and things in between. Some of the songs, and a lot of those were kind of political. Although I made a point never to endorse a politician or a particular party.

[David Spade]

Right.

[David Byrne]

I tried to keep it bipartisan and to just talk about issues.

[Dana Carvey]

That's smart.

[David Byrne]

I talk about getting people to vote, and can we talk about that? Can I. The challenge was, can you figure out a way to talk about that? And it's funny.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, that's true. If it's funny, then it doesn't come off. As a teacher, you know.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Or condescending. Yeah, yeah.

[David Byrne]

Yes. Can I get some information across? But in a way, that's funny.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

And sometimes that took a little bit of trial and error. See, let's see where the. Where the laughs are and how people react to that. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

So you're kind of a comedian in a way. When you're out there, you. You do you have a monologue?

[David Spade]

There's room for that, right?

[David Byrne]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm. I wouldn't say I'm a comedian, but I'm learning some of the challenges that you all face.

[David Spade]

You know, people like a little levity, and when they're out having fun and they already like you, I mean, that's half the battle being comics. So they like you. They're there to see you. And in between songs, I think we asked McCartney, was that, like, a nerve? It's a nervous thing to. He tries stuff. He goes, I'm going to say something here. And sometimes it turns into just part of the show, because if something works, he locks it in, you know?

[David Byrne]

Exactly.

[David Spade]

And that's great because the shows are so big, it's, like, hard to mess around with it. But, yeah, there is a little room. That must be fun. Or one night go. I'm gonna say this at this part, and it's something to think about.

[David Byrne]

Yeah. Or something's happened in the news and you feel like.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

You want to acknowledge. Not pretend like it didn't happen, but not turn the whole show into being about that.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. It's a delicate dance. So what's David, I have something and

[David Spade]

we'll let him go.

[Dana Carvey]

I only have like 500 questions, but that's for you.

[David Byrne]

Oh, no.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I just, I just researched you and you kept doing so much stuff.

[David Spade]

You can't stop. My computer goes, all right, give me a break.

[Dana Carvey]

The dingbat drawings, the tree drawings, the stuff during the pandemic, it's just, it goes on and on artistically. You're just, you're going, you're ping ponging in all these different areas.

[David Byrne]

It seems I'm very lucky and I'm having a good time. I'm lucky that in a way people accept that I can try these different things.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

They don't always work, but people kind of allow me to try that stuff.

[David Spade]

Well, you look 30 years old. I mean, it's like you have drive. And if you still have drive, that's really the whole trick. You still like it. And I'm scared one day when I was. When I'm writing jokes and scribbling stuff and going. And if it gets hard, I go, what if one day I don't want to do this? You know, I don't have that in me anymore. And that's what you don't want. You know, you always want to still. It's fun to still do that stuff. I just don't want that fun to go away. So I think it's nice that you still think of a germ of an idea and go, there's really no limits. It doesn't have to be this.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Because you could be out there now with just bald face talking the Talking Heads review show and just playing all your hits. You could. And people would pay a lot of money for.

[David Spade]

Of course.

[David Byrne]

Yeah, yeah. I've gotten offers for that. But at the same time, I know that you're not going to be happy. You're not going to be happy there.

[David Spade]

It's a f the equation too now, being happy.

[David Byrne]

Oh, I hope so.

[David Spade]

Yeah. No, you're right, though. But a lot of people don't think that way. They think, they get scared and they move it out of fear. I get it. I mean, of course it would make sense if you went out with those. That again. But there also is. You've got other things you want to do and it makes it seems more fun.

[Dana Carvey]

I think you started you, you were yourself from the beginning, and you never fell into that trap. And I think it's done you. Well, it's probably why you look so young and fresh and, you know, what do you get? I mean, how big a couch can you buy? You need 20 bicycles. I mean, there's a level till money where it's. We all.

[David Byrne]

Exactly.

[Dana Carvey]

I love my health care and I would wish it on everyone in the world. That's my most prized possession. But I don't live in a giant place. I have one car, one wife.

[David Spade]

So he lives in a dump. David.

[Dana Carvey]

I. I just. Everything you own owns you back. And I just. It's true. It's true.

[David Byrne]

I realized, yeah, at some point, okay, I got enough bicycles.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

I don't. My apartment's big enough. I'm fine.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, well, that makes you rich in reverse, you know.

[David Byrne]

Exactly.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Byrne]

That also gives me the opportunity to try things that might fail.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. You don't have to. You don't have to make 400,000 net every month. I just put out a specific number in order to make.

[David Spade]

To cover everybody.

[Dana Carvey]

That's pretty big. Yeah. That'd be crazy if someone had that much. No, I'm not there. No. But it, you know, your expenses can creep up and then you can become a slave to them. But I do think I'm so admiring and a little bit envious that you keep reinventing yourself and you never stay stagnant. With me, a lot of the characters I did on snl, audience would like to see them and I pushed them out there to a point. And it is a. You know, and also in comedy, you have to feed the beast. You can't come back to the same city the next year. You have to have a new hour. But I do think your path has been really fun to watch. I've been watching you a lot the last day and a half.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

And my research. And this guy is having fun. He's. Can't be cooler. I know that's not your quest, but. So it's good to be cool, though. Well, it just means you're following your true North Star. I don't know if you had a lot of therapy early on. I finally got into therapy at 60 a little bit too late, but it seems like you. You had a sense of yourself and a confidence early on.

[David Byrne]

I tried therapy for a while when I was having some relationship, marriage stuff, but, yeah, other than that, I think my therapy is.

[David Spade]

Yeah, let's roll some video from that therapy.

[David Byrne]

Going for a bicycle ride or whatever.

[David Spade]

I think We've thank you, David, for bearing with us. I know this isn't a typical sort of interview thing, but you're a lot of fun.

[Dana Carvey]

It's been really a pleasure, David, and thank you. And you, you keep it up. If you happen to want to bring your Broadway show back, I would, I would make my way to see it. I don't know if you're not the type to repeat, but that, that, the reviews on that, well, I'll just say they were off the charts. I mean, so. So I don't know if you have plans to bring it back, but don't do it for me. As my only message. Don't mount.

[David Byrne]

I did this for Dana.

[Dana Carvey]

Dana, do it for me. It is on HBO live streaming right now, right, isn't it? Yes. Right, so that's, that's available for everybody. Let's do housekeeping at the very end. David Byrne, he, he's got albums out, he's got, he's got art shows. He's at the Pace Gallery, Trees and. Yeah, Pace Gallery in New York City. I'm going to be there soon. I'm going to check that out. He does Neuro Society. I can't. Anything you want to add that.

[David Byrne]

No, that's good, that's good.

[Dana Carvey]

Fans can consume. All right, well, good luck on, on your next podcast, David. Thank you, but this was.

[David Spade]

I'm gonna go buy some more bicycles.

[Dana Carvey]

Bye.

[David Byrne]

Great to meet you both.

[Dana Carvey]

Be well. Thank you.

[David Spade]

Because he said you don't, you don't need more bicycles. All right, listen, if you're enjoying the fly on the wall, of course, hopefully you are. Click, follow. We don't want to be desperate, but obviously smash that God dang button on your favorite podcast app.

[Dana Carvey]

Smash.

[David Spade]

Leave a review, a good one, leave a five star rating, nothing else.

[Dana Carvey]

Whoops.

[David Spade]

And maybe even share an episode with a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. Dana, what do you think?

[Dana Carvey]

I'm gonna tell you this right now. Hear me now, believe me later. Fly on the Wall, Believe it or not, is presented by Odyssey and executive produced by. Hold for it, Dana Carvey and David Spade or David Spade and Dana Carvey. We don't write this stuff. Heather Santoro, Greg Holtzman and Leah Rees Dennis. The show is edited by Evan Cox with production support from Phil Sweetek. Talent production and booking by Sophia Lepore.