RE-RELEASE - Judd Apatow

Summary

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Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade: RE-RELEASE – Judd Apatow

Episode Date: May 6, 2026
Guest: Judd Apatow
(Summary compiled from episode transcript)

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Episode Overview

In this engaging conversation, comedy titans Dana Carvey and David Spade chat with legendary writer, director, producer, and ex-stand-up comic Judd Apatow. They trace Apatow’s fascinating journey through showbiz, from his early days as a comic and joke-writer to modern Hollywood multi-hyphenate. The episode brims with insider tales from the comedy scene, stories from the ‘SNL’ universe, lessons from legendary comics like Garry Shandling and George Carlin, and peeks behind the curtain of Apatow’s directorial style. The tone is fast-paced, irreverent, nostalgic, and loaded with comedy shop talk, advice, laughter, and some sharp behind-the-scenes wisdom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Judd Apatow’s Comedy Roots

• Early Stand-Up Aspirations:
  Apatow shares stories from when breaking onto the HBO Young Comedians Special felt like the 'Tonight Show' for upstarts—an audition where he witnessed comic Ray Romano’s breakout set and Jon Stewart’s audition success (02:19–03:00).

  • “Jon Stewart murdered so hard, gets the show...I go on after him. You couldn’t bomb worse in front of all my friends.” (Judd Apatow, 02:43)

• Comedy Club “Class”:
  The guys riff on the formidable early '90s LA comedy scene—name-dropping Sandler, Schneider, Norm Macdonald, Jim Carrey, and reminisce about the daunting improv chalkboard lineups (09:03–11:17).

  • “When you came to town with your leather jacket, you could feel like, oh, this guy’s gonna do great.” (Judd Apatow on Spade, 10:10)

2. The Art of “Comedic Grafting” and Collaboration

• Apatow as Behind-the-Scenes Force:
  Judd details how writing material for heavyweights like Jim Carrey, Roseanne, and George Wallace opened doors, describing his chameleonic approach to credits and joke-writing, driven by necessity and insecurity (07:18–08:36).

  • “I had no money, and I was really afraid of being broke. So I thought...if people were like, oh, yeah, they’ll give you 50 bucks a joke...So I did that...” (Judd Apatow, 14:33–15:00)

• Helping Each Other in SNL Orbit:
  The trio dissects how writing for others (even for no personal spotlight) is key to breaking through, with Sandler and Spade both recalling writing jokes and sketches for Carvey on SNL (15:00–16:44).

3. Ben Stiller Show & Beyond: Near Misses and Breakthroughs

• Fate and the SNL “Almost”:
  Apatow discusses his close brushes with getting an SNL staff job, including a fateful Rob Schneider “not ready” review that redirected him to ‘The Ben Stiller Show’ and eventually meeting his wife.

  • “Almost every good thing that’s happened in my life is a result of those four words.” (Judd Apatow, 23:19)

• Creative Community:
  The conversation illustrates how proximity and constant collaboration in comedy fostered shows like ‘The Ben Stiller Show’ and, later, Apatow’s broader film/TV empire.

4. Comedy Philosophy: Failure, Resilience, and “Finding Your Lane”

• Dealing with Bombs:
  Apatow, Spade, and Carvey all share examples of on-stage failures, misfires, and bombing—plus the psychological aftermath and how it shapes a comic’s path (03:13–04:56).

  • “There’s nothing...no way for even them to fake that that went well.” (Judd Apatow, 03:13)

• Survival Strategies:
  They discuss confidence (real and feigned), the need for side hustles (writing for others), and the value of embracing your uniqueness within the cutthroat industry (12:45–13:32).

5. Mentorship and Influences: Garry Shandling & SNL Lessons

• Shandling’s Impact:
  Apatow reflects on learning emotional depth and improvisation from working on ‘The Larry Sanders Show’, crediting Shandling’s meta, emotionally-literate style for much of his directorial approach later (28:33–32:15).

  • “Gary would do that all the time. He would tell you the great joke and the emotion.” (Judd Apatow, 33:02)

• SNL and Career Longevity:
  They discuss recurring SNL motifs—competition, character-building, and advice for new comics. Sandler’s strategy of writing clever sketches for others to get his own moments in (“Pepper Boy,” “El Cantore”) comes up as quintessential Apatow-adjacent tactics (18:04–19:19).

6. Directing & Writing Methodologies

• Improvisation as Goldmine:
  Apatow’s move to lengthy, freewheeling improv takes begins with the Ben Stiller Show and expands in his films (34:02–35:07). They discuss capturing comedic magic (“Will Ferrell doing alternate lines,” Anchorman outtakes) and the pain of leaving funny riffs unseen (37:06).

  • “If he’s riffing, I actually think it’s gold. And the fact that...go in the toilet, I find unbearable.” (Judd Apatow, 37:14)

• Balancing Comedy and Pathos:
  Apatow reveals his aspiration to reach the tone of Hal Ashby films—making hard comedy that also feels real and alive (“King of Staten Island”, 37:55–38:45).

7. Family, Legacy, & Generational Transitions

• Discussing Daughter Maude’s ‘Euphoria’ Role:
  Spade jokes about the explicitness of ‘Euphoria’, leading to some playful dad humility from Apatow about seeing his daughter’s career independent from his own (48:55–49:44).

• Covid, Creativity, and ‘The Bubble’:
  Apatow discusses making a hyper-meta pandemic film (‘The Bubble’), managing on-set Covid, and pitching the film as a unique, improvised creative response to unprecedented times (49:54–53:14).

8. Comedy Icons: George Carlin Documentary & Comedy Philosophy

• ‘Sicker in the Head’ & Carlin Takeaways:
  Judd plugs his charity book, his George Carlin doc, and relays revelations: Carlin’s surprising private life, influence by Sam Kinison, and a late, darker turn in his comedy (61:40–66:12).
  • “He didn’t like, riff on stage...he wrote like a show and had to memorize it...” (Judd Apatow, 65:39)
  • “He just went hard...now I gotta show you all.” (Judd Apatow, 66:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Resilience
  “Almost every good thing that’s happened in my life is a result of those four words.” (23:19, Apatow explaining how “not ready” kept him on a better path)

• On SNL’s Competitive Atmosphere
  “Everyone wants to be a star...no one seems to want to help anyone.” (Judd Apatow, 14:26)

• On Carlin’s Legacy
  “Whenever anything happens in the news, George Carlin trends, and people are putting up clips of his bits...his stuff gets better...and he kind of predicted everything that’s happening.” (Judd Apatow, 63:14)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00–06:00: Pre-intro, reminiscing about Judd & valley comedy crew
• 06:00–14:00: Comedy club early days, audition stories, writing anonymously, SNL ecosystem
• 14:00–22:00: SNL: Writing for others, bombing stories, competitive landscape
• 22:00–31:00: “Not ready” and career pivots, The Ben Stiller Show, SNL missed chance
• 31:00–39:00: Garry Shandling and meta comedy, improvisational directing
• 39:00–44:00: Apatow’s style, SNL breaking in, Dream SNL “what-if” class
• 44:00–47:00: Touring, Dana Carvey’s standup method, club memories
• 47:00–54:00: Family talent, Maude Apatow in 'Euphoria', 'The Bubble' meta-filmmaking
• 54:00–58:00: Beatles impressions, unproduced sketches, book + charity
• 58:00–66:00: Carlin doc: revelations, legacy, comedy aging, working through pain
• 66:00–72:00: Bullying, online criticism, comedic self-caricature, podcasts & projects

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Further Highlights & Running Gags

• Impersonation Clinics:
  Loads of Carvey’s classic impressions: Paul McCartney, Lennon, Biden (47:12–47:34), Kamala Harris, plenty of in-character riffing with Spade and Apatow laughing along.

• Meta Comedy:
  Extended riff on how pandemic “Bubble” filming is both real and the subject of the movie (50:25–51:41).

• Comedy Industry Wisdom:
  Running joke about how “megastardom” is as much luck as talent ("If we knew how to become megastars, we would be megastars." – Dana, 73:55).

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Conclusion

This episode is a treasure trove of comedy craft, career resilience, and personal anecdotes that define Judd Apatow’s rise. The conversation offers inspiration, comic commiseration, and solid industry perspective while remaining hilarious and relatable. It's a perfect encapsulation of what happens when comedy lifers get together and just let the stories fly.

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Transcript

[David Spade]

Judd Apatow might live near me soon.

[Dana Carvey]

Really? That's a interesting little bit of information

[David Spade]

since we did this episode. I see Judd probably more than most people I see out here.

[Dana Carvey]

And he still gets in the clubs, right?

[David Spade]

The clay. Still does comedy clubs.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

I saw him at a dinner thing, and he had me drop Leslie, his lovely wife, off there. Mansion.

[Dana Carvey]

He done well. The kid done well.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Funny dude. Started with him years and years ago in the Valley with Adam and Schneider. Before, you know, it turned into working as a regular in the club way before snl. And then he sort of. It was writing with Jim Carrey. He's doing a lot. And then he went on to be this huge producer, director, and comic.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. And he talks about that. That in this episode. Just the way he kind of navigated from standup to producer, director of movies. Pretty interesting journey.

[David Spade]

Fun guy. A lot of fun stories. Here's Judd Apatow.

[Dana Carvey]

Jud Apatow, the one and only.

[David Spade]

Judd's got so much and so much in comedy that it's perfect. It's right.

[Dana Carvey]

Can we go back to.

[David Spade]

Go back.

[Dana Carvey]

We just don't. And lead into this. Because. Confidence. Okay. This is why I think of you. I think of. Hear how I think of dysfunctional comedians. Yes. Wounded, upset, dramatic. Dysfunctional. Make the wrong decisions. Or as Leonard would say, never stop. They do stop. They whine. They're. You know, when I think of someone like you or Sandler, it's just full speed ahead. I mean, did you. In those early days. I mean, how did you like. We remember when I hosted the 15th annual comedians show.

[Judd Apatow]

Yes.

[Dana Carvey]

And I told you.

[Judd Apatow]

I told you the Young Comedians Special.

[Dana Carvey]

One word, Judd. Direct. I didn't say. You might not have heard him.

[David Spade]

It was a catering.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, that was a big deal because that was the show we all wanted to get on. To me, that was like getting on the Tonight show, the HBO young comedian special. Everyone broke off of that. You were on it. I went to the taping and saw you and Schneider do it. And Dennis Miller hosted it.

[Dana Carvey]

He hosted it.

[Judd Apatow]

And in the crowd was David Bowie.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And that seemed like the most pressurized situation to do a set with David Bowie in the corner looking like Starman. It was a really exciting night in Santa Monica at this little theater that is now a bookstore. And Drake. Sather had an incredible set that night.

[David Spade]

He was on your set. He was on yours. Yeah, yeah. Mine. Drake was great.

[Dana Carvey]

Great.

[Judd Apatow]

And then I auditioned for it in New York at Stand Up New York. Jon Stewart was also auditioning for it. I brought all my friends from high school. Jon Stewart murdered so hard, gets the show. I go on after him. You couldn't bomb worse in front of all of my friends.

[Dana Carvey]

That's the worst.

[David Spade]

And you stack the crowd of it.

[Judd Apatow]

I stacked the crowd and even my friends were like, I don't know where to left.

[Dana Carvey]

How did you deal with afterwards? And the faces that go. That was good. Where they changed the review mid word.

[Judd Apatow]

There was nothing. There was no way for even them to fake that. That went well.

[Dana Carvey]

How long did that affect you? Like a week.

[Judd Apatow]

Or I could wake up in the middle of the night right now and

[David Spade]

be like, oh, well, because that was a big deal. There was nothing really going on. And it was HBO and the Tonight show. And I tried to get on the young comedians every year, and I kept barely missing it. And I was a young comedian and. And they go, oh, we gave it to Richard Belzer this year. I'm like, well, isn't he 80?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, didn't we have. We had Jeanine garofalo on the 15th annual.

[David Spade]

Oh, that was yours?

[Dana Carvey]

Ray Romano, he was the one who stole it.

[Judd Apatow]

And even when we were shooting these, like, interstitial interviews, I don't even know if they used much of it. We all went, oh, my God, Ray Romano's gonna be a star. Like, he found himself in that moment.

[Dana Carvey]

Nick dubois, man is Regis. I don't do an impression, but he really wanted me to anyway.

[David Spade]

Wait, if that's so many. This. I know we're going to talk about so many things. I love the young comedians because the lineups are interesting and the interstitials were interesting because they go. HBO said, just talk to the camera for a minute about whatever. And that was. Looking back, it really showed you had no direction on hours.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, me too.

[David Spade]

So what did.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you remember what you even did?

[Judd Apatow]

I don't remember. I just remember watching Ray do his. And he was eating an apple while talking and. And just was already a master. And I think I just thought, oh, this is another level of how you do it of it. And I thought I had a pretty mediocre set. And I made a very big mistake in doing the set, which is I had never been on hbo. I'd only been on, like, Comic Strip Live and Evening at the Improv, where you're never allowed to curse. And I said, I'm going to curse, right?

[David Spade]

Why not show them?

[Dana Carvey]

Because I'm unscable.

[Judd Apatow]

And then if you watch my act, I think I just added fuck everywhere just to be edgy. And none of them were punchlines. And then when they would air it on Comedy Central reruns, they have to bleep all the curses. So it's just a very.

[Dana Carvey]

I always tell young comedians, save the fucks. Don't just go, I went to the fucking store. Or back on. It has to be a punchline. And if you're Jerry Seinfeld, you'll fight the line for a year to get the fuck out.

[David Spade]

It's hard to follow a dirty comic. And now Jon Stewart. Last question. Do you look at the lineup and are you worried about following Jon Stewart or he kind of blindsided you?

[Judd Apatow]

Total blindsided. I don't think I knew his act that much back then because that was 1992, so I wasn't on the east coast much, so I didn't know what was happening. And I don't remember who else was on that night. But then I got it the next year, and Andy Kindler was on that and Jeanine Garofalo and Bill Bellamy.

[Dana Carvey]

Bill Bellamy, Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And that was like the week we started doing the Ben Stiller show. So I had to go to Arizona and shoot it and then come back and we started, you know, shooting. So I have to ask, how did

[Dana Carvey]

you know Ben at that point?

[Judd Apatow]

I met Ben online at Elvis Costello unplugged.

[David Spade]

Okay. Online.

[Judd Apatow]

91.

[Dana Carvey]

91.

[David Spade]

In line or in line?

[Judd Apatow]

That's a.

[David Spade]

You were physically in line, Seinfeld bit.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, I was in line online. And then Dana Gould was there, and he had Bentley, and he introduced me to Ben. And then we were chatting, and he very quickly mentioned that HBO wanted him to do a sketch show. And I was like, oh, we should get together and kick that around. And we did, like, a day or two later and then sold it like, a week later. And everyone thought we knew each other for years. And we literally had just met the week before. And then HBO sold it to Fox.

[David Spade]

What were your credentials at that point? That he would say, okay, you're good enough to do this.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, I had just like, they were like, stealth credentials that seemed better than they were. So I would help people write their acts, and then they would throw me a co producer credit. So I did that for Jim Carrey and Roseanne. And I did a special, which was a funny special with Dennis Miller. It was the pregame show for Paul Simon live in Central Park.

[Dana Carvey]

All these funny shows.

[David Spade]

Wait, what?

[Judd Apatow]

And so he did a half hour where they showed clips of Paul Simon and before.

[Dana Carvey]

And you wrote some of his stuff.

[Judd Apatow]

And so I wrote the Pregame show with him. When you write with Dennis, basically you're transcribing because he's so funny, and you're

[Dana Carvey]

just organizing Apatow Cat. Got some lines for me here.

[Judd Apatow]

Okay, well, my favorite joke I wrote for him was, we're about to start the show where Paul Simon, along with his. With 27, along with. Coming up next is Paul Simon and the 27 musicians it took to replace art.

[Dana Carvey]

That's a great line. That's very Dennis Y. Coming up next, Paul Simon and the 27 musicians it took to replace art. Okay, but I. He used to do that, too. Same with Gary.

[David Spade]

Whispered to his friend. He means Garfunkel.

[Dana Carvey]

See, it's the jaw.

[David Spade]

Everything.

[Dana Carvey]

Carson's the jaw.

[David Spade]

That's the jaw.

[Dana Carvey]

99% of impressions are jaw based.

[David Spade]

Jaw based.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, Dennis. So I did that with Dennis, and so that made it appear. So I had a bunch of those credits. I did, like, three Tom Arnolds specials that were like, kind of like recounting comedy, and it gave the appearance that I was a producer, but really I wasn't producing.

[Dana Carvey]

Well. Were you actively in a very healthy way, unafraid, had an inner confidence and sort of self promoting in a normal way, like a sense, I can do this, or were you like Ben Soz? Did you ever have. Where were your insecurities?

[Judd Apatow]

I was terrified.

[Dana Carvey]

You just fought through them, huh?

[Judd Apatow]

I just. Well, I mean, I've talked about this before, but it's interesting to talk about with David.

[Dana Carvey]

This podcast is huge. Believe me, no one's heard it before. This is global.

[Judd Apatow]

But, you know, David lived down the street when I lived with Sandler. Rob Schneider lived across the street.

[David Spade]

Drake Sather lived close by.

[Judd Apatow]

Drake Sather lived close by. I was writing jokes for Jim Carrey, who lived over the hill. And that was right. As in Living Color was starting.

[David Spade]

And I. Jim Carrey was like Apple stock you got in way early on that one.

[Judd Apatow]

Exactly. I was like the Tesla stock I thought I shouldn't buy because he was stoned on Joe Rogan.

[Dana Carvey]

Just like, they don't got nothing.

[Judd Apatow]

And I definitely had that sneaking suspicion, oh, I'm not as good at this.

[Dana Carvey]

So you're cool on seeing guys that are better than you and then just surpassing them, basically.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, I just thought, this isn't my move in the way that it's their move. I mean, I remember, David, when you came to town with your leather jacket,

[Dana Carvey]

fresh from a surfer Arizona surfer.

[Judd Apatow]

You were dressed like, with Sharon Stone in the Police Academy movie. There's a new guy in Town. And I wasn't even in at the Improv. I would go to the Valley Improv and wait to see if someone didn't show up. And then I would do that spot.

[David Spade]

Oh, cover. Oh, yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

The manager, Joe Drew, was always cool. And you. I literally remember the day that you came to town, and it was like, oh, Jesus Christ. You could feel like, oh, this guy's gonna do great. And he looks great.

[Dana Carvey]

New kid in town.

[Judd Apatow]

He's got attitude. And then Schneider came from. He's doing that gym teacher bit.

[Dana Carvey]

Yay.

[David Spade]

Set your clocks back.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, he's doing that bit. And then Sandler was doing Elvis in the refrigerator. And everyone seems to be reinventing it.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Because you're like, this kind of isn't what we saw. When I used to look at that improv chalkboard, it used to be. It would say, like, this is dating me. But it would be like, Leno, Paul Reiser, Jeff Altman, Ellen. Maybe Seinfeld. Yeah, Seinfeld. And you're like. It was such a. Like, first ballot, hall of Famers. You go, jesus. And. But you didn't really realize it then. Just everyone was good, you know, and then. But they all kind of were around the same age, same look. So that I got in 60% because I looked, you know, 17, and I had blind.

[Dana Carvey]

You always had kind of confidence or you were faking it.

[David Spade]

Faking it.

[Dana Carvey]

You were, like, 21. And I was like, this guy seems like he's got it all, again, completely wrong.

[Judd Apatow]

But then he passed out a jack in the box from hypoglycemia.

[David Spade]

Do you remember when I.

[Dana Carvey]

Did you ever, in high school say, jack off in the box? And that was the big joke for the guys in the Volkswagen.

[David Spade]

And you go. I could go national with this joke. Jack off in the box.

[Dana Carvey]

Jack off in the box. Hey, wait a minute. It's called Jack in the box. Hey, that's a sexual.

[David Spade]

No, Judd. What about.

[Dana Carvey]

Come on, Judd. What about when we.

[David Spade]

Were you there when I passed out at Taco Bell?

[Judd Apatow]

Well, I was. I didn't see it. Yeah, but it was this thing where,

[David Spade]

like, no one saw it.

[Judd Apatow]

Suddenly David has this thing where if he doesn't eat, he's going to. He's gonna go unconscious in public spaces. And then it happened in Saturday Night Live, right? Where they had to, like, wheel you out on a stretch.

[Dana Carvey]

That was pretty much every other week. I'm like, stress gone.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

We were meeting to play tennis. I think Adam. I think everyone's supposed to play tennis. And then I stopped by Del Taco, what everyone does before they do activities. I think it was a combo of I was waiting in line, I hadn't eaten, and I started to feel and. And maybe there was a dog tooth in my burrito. Something about it was like. And then I go. I think I just laid down on the floor and talk about no friends, nothing. No one helped me. And I'm like, oh, Sandler's not even famous. Not yet. That's not gonna help me. And you knew he was gonna be famous. Now I know he would have sent a chopper.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, you were delicate. That's when we found out you were delicate.

[Dana Carvey]

He'd hang out with you, and your eyes get real big, and you go, I gotta go. I gotta go. Just got here.

[David Spade]

Let's go back to Judd for one second.

[Dana Carvey]

I like exploring hypoglycemia in an adult's man. That's page one.

[Judd Apatow]

But anyway, so that was, you know, the environment. As a fan of comedy, always a giant fan of it. I was smart enough to, you know, to meet someone like Norm MacDonald and

[David Spade]

go, like, again, another.

[Judd Apatow]

This is another hall of fame level of this. But I could sit. I used to write jokes for Roseanne with Norm. Like, we both got hired to write her acting together. And John Rigey and me and Norm, I remember going to Roseanne's house and we would sit there with legal pads with Roseanne and, you know, she would say, like, I want to do a bit about how it's better to suck cock than to kiss ass. Because at least when you suck cock, it's like a. It's a deal. I'll suck your cock and then you'll give me something. When you kiss ass, you're doing it with the hope that you'll get something. And she would, like. She'd tell us some, like, theory she had, and we would, like, write it down and try to turn it into a.

[Dana Carvey]

And so Norm was demure in a way and, like, just trying to please.

[David Spade]

It's funny to see Norm in that scenario.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, you gotta suck.

[David Spade]

Yeah, there's something there.

[Dana Carvey]

Kiss ass. But how about that, Joe?

[David Spade]

You were smart because you were, like, noticing early on if you didn't think. Which you did make it as a comedian. But early on, you go, you were like. It was bitcoin producer credits. They were, like, worth so much, you didn't know it. And then later, they just start paying off and reruns and.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, you guys never wanted to help other people. That's what it was.

[Dana Carvey]

Self center.

[Judd Apatow]

Everyone wanted to be a Star.

[Dana Carvey]

I just hit me. I'm like, wait. It was Planet Dana from day one. Sharp elbows, motherfuckers. Follow that.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, but you're never gonna write jokes for other people for money. I had no money, and I was really afraid of being broke. So I thought, no one seems to want to help anyone. And if people were like, oh, yeah, they'll give you 50 bucks a joke or a couple hundred bucks to sit with them for a few hours. So I did that with George Wallace and Taylor Negron, everybody.

[David Spade]

Great.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, with that, you're totally right. Going back to dysfunctional comedians, and if they meet a guy like you, who's smart and funny, disciplined, and is going to kind of tease out the best of them. So David actually wrote jokes for me for a short period of time. Remember the Grumpy Old man joke he wrote?

[David Spade]

Oh, no, go do it.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm like, in my day, we didn't have latex condoms. Let's see. We would take a bearskin and wrap it around our privates and tie it off with a bungee cord, and we use the same one over and over again. That's what it was. We liked it. But for a very brief time before.

[David Spade]

No, I think it was because snl, I was. I talked to sand this morning because you were coming on, and I was saying, do you remember the sketch I wrote for Julia Sweeney? Because we had talked to her, and we started talking, and I wrote the sketch for her, and she was surprised because I wasn't in it. And he goes, yeah, well, you're a fucking writer. And I go, oh, that's right. Because we are so selfish that at the end of the day, my job was to write. So was Sandler. So you're not supposed to really write for yourself there. And so I wrote for someone else. And then I guess because Dennis would ask me for update jokes, you. If I wrote for Grumpy Old Man, I thought that was such a funny hook. If I could throw some shit in, fine. You know, you've got great guys all around you. Like, if I had a rewrite table.

[Dana Carvey]

It's magic for a comedian who's written all their own stuff and knows how hard it is. And you have your few hits, you repeat them over and over again, and then someone like Bonnie and Terry Turner or David or Robert Smigel hands you something. I'm like, because I had written a sketch and I left it early on in snl, I left it, and Robert said, can I take a look at it? I'm like, okay, who's this guy, right?

[David Spade]

What is this gift?

[Dana Carvey]

I thought I'd already got it, and I came in. It was like, gold. I'm like, oh, my God, it's so much better. The fuck? So it really makes sense how comedians would gravitate toward you.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, Sandler was really smart, and that's what he did. Because I remember, first of all, I remember when he went to audition for the show. He flies to Chicago. At the time, his act is all just, like, mumbling and the Wilt Chamberlain bit. And he was hilarious, but still hit and miss in the clubs. Like, we loved it. We would sit in the back and just love it. And. But I remember going to gigs with him where it did not go well. It was not a consistent situation. We all knew he would make it big.

[David Spade]

The last time, it did not go well for Sandler.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, I remember going with him to San Diego, to the San Diego improv, and Dave Becky, who ran it at the time. Oh, you got to let Sandler headline, like, on a Monday.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And Sandler bombed so bad for an

[Dana Carvey]

hour, I could see.

[Judd Apatow]

Put his back against the wall and just ran it.

[David Spade]

Just said the jokes. Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Annoyed. And so when he left to do the audition, I thought, I mean, what does Adam do? I mean, he doesn't do characters. I mean, what is he gonna bring to the show? And then he gets it, and suddenly, like, he's gone, and I'm in this shitty apartment living under a stripper in the Valley. And he doesn't bring his clothes, his id. I literally have his ID and his driver's license from when he fly that. I have no idea. Like, he took nothing with him. I literally have a box.

[David Spade]

You could bring dynamite on the plane back then.

[Judd Apatow]

You could do anything. And so one time, I forgot what this it was leading into. Okay, so gets there, and he's trying to get on the show, and his strategy was to write for you. So he would write you an amazing sketch with someone, usually someone, like, smiling.

[Dana Carvey]

I wonder what it was.

[Judd Apatow]

And, like, in his head. So he'd write, like, whatever. I think he was part of maybe the Pepper sketch.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, Pepper Boy. Pepper Boy and Smoggle probably got on that too. Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And the other one was the one where you're the host who keeps making out with the people walking in the restaurant that.

[David Spade]

El Kantori.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, that was when I was still on snl. The other one was hosting, but Sandler Schneider went in that El Cantore was a fucking hit.

[David Spade]

Was that Christie Alley was the host.

[Judd Apatow]

What was It. The other one was like, you like the Juice?

[David Spade]

Oh, that's the Juice.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

That was Smigel and Sandler. But, yeah, El Cantore was the one where I had Victoria's office, legs up in the air and smile, go corny ways, try to say, don't do that. And I'm like, that was one of the biggest. That I was just writing a physical gag.

[Judd Apatow]

But, yeah, Sandler would give himself, like one joke in it, but a good joke. And that's how he tried to get himself exposed, which is to let other people like you murder, but give himself a key thing where I think he came out in his underwear at the

[Dana Carvey]

end of the season.

[Judd Apatow]

Right?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, he was rip fit, man.

[David Spade]

He was like a boxer as. Don't you forget about the macho man.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

And he came on as Iraqi Pete.

[Dana Carvey]

But I always found him funny and charming. Charming. And. And he did have a few. A few months of connecting with the audience. Opera man, it was so abstract. I'm a horsehole. And I just loved it. The silliness of it. But when he hooked, they went with him.

[Judd Apatow]

Boom.

[David Spade]

I don't think Franken loved it at first. Well, let's get back to you. So you.

[Judd Apatow]

I remember him telling me about Franken not liking it. He would, like, tell me that, because I would always be like, how's it going? Because I was. You know, this was my dream to get right. So when Sandler got in there, like, oh, my God, someone got in. They're going to pull me in at some point. And we would all be on the phone with Adam trying to think of ideas for him and Schneider. I don't remember you calling asking for anything, but I remember talking to Schneider.

[David Spade]

I was crying in my office, passed out.

[Dana Carvey]

Sensitive Naked man was one of those.

[David Spade]

Schneider.

[Judd Apatow]

He was trying to figure out, how do you get on the show? How do I get my personality through? And I remember he said that one day he knocked on Lauren's door and Franken's in there. He says he's in his underwear. He put a hammer in his butt. Like he was holding a hammer in his butt.

[Dana Carvey]

This is Al Franken.

[Judd Apatow]

No, this is Sandler. And then he. And then he just, like, knocked on the door, opened the door and went like, it's Hammer time. And then they did not look amused at all. And then he walked away like he was just trying to find a way.

[Dana Carvey]

That's just a ballsy. That's very Sadler. Like, fucking. Who would that.

[David Spade]

Well, it's the one who's like, New York Guy and like upper going to Orso and Franken and then a guy walking with Amber. But it was. And not the changing of the guard, but it was like a bunch of guys going, can we try all this kind of stuff. I was a little different. Adam was different that way. And so it just was a new way. I don't know of thinking, but you were right along our line. So I get on with Rob Sandler gets on. I don't think he knew Farley and Rock back then, but so then you are very close to the show in that respect. And then you like it too. And you eventually start writing. You write. Have you been brought in as a guest writer?

[Judd Apatow]

Well, I would talk to Adam on the phone all the time. I think in the early years he was talking to Hurlihy who wasn't on the show at that point and we were all just trying to help load him up. So I remember, I remember working on the Denise show sketch.

[David Spade]

Yeah, that was a big one with him.

[Judd Apatow]

And I remember the other one I kicked around with him was the first cheap Halloween costumes. Crazy spoon head.

[Dana Carvey]

An update on Uptown. I like that.

[David Spade]

That was fucking cool.

[Judd Apatow]

That was one of the first times he really went full Adam where.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, that was total connected.

[Judd Apatow]

And then one day I said to Adam, can I give you a sketch and just hand it in? Don't touch it. I just want to know if I was good enough.

[David Spade]

Oh, just like don't even touch it. Just slip through right into the read through file.

[Judd Apatow]

I don't remember what the sketch was about at all, but it was a Dennis Quaid sketch and it went on really early in the show and they did it.

[David Spade]

Oh, wait, you got it on.

[Judd Apatow]

It was like a dinner table sketch argument of some sort. And it got on like in a key place and I think did reasonably well. And I thought, okay, I can do this. But then I never could get the job there. Like I had the packet and I never got hired.

[Dana Carvey]

Did you ever have a meeting one on one with Lorne?

[Judd Apatow]

As close as I got was one day Adam called me and he said, hey, oh. He said, you know what? I had your packet. And Downey, after months was holding your packet and talking to me and Schneider and he was asking about me and I was telling him that he should hire you. And Schneider said, I don't think he's ready.

[David Spade]

Shut the fuck up.

[Judd Apatow]

Seriously.

[Dana Carvey]

He did.

[Judd Apatow]

I was like, what?

[David Spade]

What?

[Dana Carvey]

They shovel writers in there. What do you mean ready? It's a tryout.

[Judd Apatow]

But then I was thinking about it.

[David Spade]

Come On.

[Judd Apatow]

And of course, at the time, it was very annoying. And then I thought later, almost every good thing that's happened in my life is a result of those four words.

[David Spade]

What words? Are you not ready?

[Judd Apatow]

Just not getting in there was why I met Stiller and did the Ben Stiller show. I can literally blame everything in my life to Rob Schneider saying he's not ready, Meeting my wife, my children. None of it would exist. Interesting if I went at that time. But later on, Roseanne hosted, and I was writing jokes for her, so I wrote her monologue and I guess wrote that week, which is mainly the monologue. And that was really fun.

[David Spade]

That's always weird because it's not weird, but sometimes they bring guests. I think Martin Lawrence was the first one to do it when I was there, and he brought some guys, and I was like, oh, okay. It's almost saying you guys are bad. But it's more just like a trust issue because now I would love to have someone that wrote well for me around just to be. Because you're so alone and to go, is this shit any good? Because you might think it's good. And they go, why would you do that? And I go, well, no one's around to ask. It's literally 85 people against you, and they're on your team, but you don't know, and you're scared, and they might be trying to talk you into something.

[Dana Carvey]

It's hard to go back when you're lucky enough to have hit characters, actors, and, you know, and every time, it's like in the 90s when I would guest host, you'll do Bush, you know, you know, junior. And, you know, and then it was like, you'll do church lady. And it's like, 2012. I'm getting close to her age. At least all my characters are old. I'm still younger than church lay.

[Judd Apatow]

News flash, kids, you're aging into it.

[Dana Carvey]

Hey, Adam Sandler is listening right now. How you doing, buddy? He is breaking the fourth wall.

[Judd Apatow]

Didn't repeat characters when he hosted, which was pretty cool.

[David Spade]

I think that is sort of par for the courses.

[Judd Apatow]

Opera man, maybe. What did he do when he did

[Dana Carvey]

an infomercial that crushed? He did the Farley song.

[Judd Apatow]

The Italian. The. The Italian vacation sketch.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Was maybe the one.

[David Spade]

I think my daughter loved it.

[Judd Apatow]

To me, I. I fucked up.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I. I haven't been able to float this theory out, but since we're on Adam for a second. 2019, the year of Sandler. I'd never seen anyone break show business that Hard. Because first of all, his special was kind of supernatural because. My favorite word. Because of shooting so many times and being so relaxed and so playful. Then he comes out with uncut gems.

[David Spade]

Was it uncut gems?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, uncut gems. Then he hosts Saturday Night Live and he destroys. So those three kind of broke.

[Judd Apatow]

And he won, like, the Indie Spirit Award.

[Dana Carvey]

He won a war and he gave

[Judd Apatow]

us money that if anyone out there wants a Google something that is as funny as anything can be. Adam giving a speech to all the snobby independent film people where they cheer him like he is their favorite person has always been, and then he attacks them in the most hysterical way. It was a perfect speech.

[Dana Carvey]

It just sort of was full circle. Because back in the day, I remember Sandler just casually would say to me, they hate me, Carvey. You know, the critics thought he was. They didn't get him. And now since it's turned, it's kind of interesting to see an arc of a career. I have two points back to Judd.

[David Spade]

Judd is all you get, Adam.

[Dana Carvey]

Bop, bop, bop, bop.

[David Spade]

Judd is a. I. I had actually heard you're. You had offered head writer at one point, but that maybe that's not true.

[Judd Apatow]

I. There was some sniffing around, some grumblings.

[David Spade]

Yes, maybe it was. Was it too late in the game? You had too much going on?

[Judd Apatow]

Well, at the time, I was about to make a movie, and I felt bad about bailing on the movie. That was one thing. And then I was also probably nervous about what I could accomplish at the show. What can you really do to the show?

[Dana Carvey]

Cause it's so locked in.

[Judd Apatow]

It's locked in and how it's made. And I wasn't sure I had something that I could bring to it unless I could really change it. And it shouldn't be changed. But look what's happened since then. I mean, it's just gone on and just gotten better and greater. And it did everything it should do. And so it just didn't feel like

[Dana Carvey]

it informs me right now just because I was on it and it's still on in this huge franchise shows you this. I get to ride that wave. But I'm just curious. Did you have wilderness years at all after Ben Stiller? You have a couple years where you lost your confidence, nothing's going on. Or was it pretty much then you got with shandling in that whole ride? Or was there times. Or we could talk about your Gary Shandling experience. Because I'm really curious about that and how it informed you as a filmmaker.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, I was bouncing back and forth to a lot of projects that weren't necessarily connecting in a mass success way. But I like them. So I got to make a movie with Steve Brill, which Stiller was in heavyweight. It's a Disney movie.

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

It cost 10 million. It made 20. So it didn't sink my career. And we loved it, but it wasn't considered successful in any way. And weirdly, now people really like it.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, it's charming.

[Judd Apatow]

And the Stiller show, we loved it, but it got canceled.

[Dana Carvey]

Won the Emmy for Best show, though.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, for writing. And so that was exciting, but depressing. And then I did Sanders for a bunch of years, Sanders. And that was for me, like, oh, I need to learn how to do this. And if I'm here with Garry, I'll learn how to write. And that is, I think, what happened. It's just watching Gary.

[Dana Carvey]

Were you with the show when I came on? Because I can't. Gary asked me to come on before it had gotten on television, and I was doing the host thing.

[Judd Apatow]

I so remember that moment. Because you did the Smigel sketch where you did an impression of Gary.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[Judd Apatow]

And it was hilarious, but not necessarily something that Gary would enjoy because there was a lot of whining. What was the impression?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, it was hard with Gary, and when he asked me to do it, I said, you want me to? Cause he wanted me to come in and do the impression to him. He goes, oh, yeah, I love it. And I think it's kind of like Leno goes like this sometimes, but almost never talks like that. Gary. And every comedian has their hook to signal the audience that I'm having a great time and this is really funny. So I noticed that Gary would talk like this, but then when something was really funny, he would go into this pitch and I told my dog that he shouldn't pee on the carpet like that. So he wouldn't go to that gear all the time. But once in a while, he'd just come over here and it's like he's having a party. And it was a great move. So I just did that. And I had teeth and it was grotesque.

[Judd Apatow]

You had big hair.

[Dana Carvey]

I had big mullet. But so anyway, so Gary.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, it was really almost the definition of Gary wanting it to make

[Dana Carvey]

more fun of him in a way.

[Judd Apatow]

No, that he's offended on some level by it, because it just goes right to the heart of maybe whatever he might think is the cliche way of looking at him or like, he's just too boiled down.

[Dana Carvey]

That's What I do with everybody, though.

[Judd Apatow]

So he's whiny guy or whatever. So I mean, he's not mad about it, but he's, like, not loving it. And then you call him at some point and say, hey, I didn't write that. Smigel wrote it. I hope you don't feel bad. And then Gary's response was, well, let's just do an episode about it. And then he had the writers write the episode where you guest host and you keep doing an impression of him on the show and how annoyed he is at you. And that was like the meta version of Gary. You know, he has his girlfriend at the time, Linda, do an episode where she's in Playboy magazine. Suddenly we're shooting with Hugh Hefner. And then on the set, Hugh Hefner asks Linda to be in Playboy magazine. And now Gary in real life has to deal with the fact that his girlfriend is gonna be naked in Playboy magazine. And then the next thing you know, we're all at the Playboy Mansion at a cocktail party where they have big pictures of her naked, right?

[David Spade]

Oh, look at. Oh, wow.

[Judd Apatow]

And Gary's gotta.

[David Spade]

Oh, that's an episode through it.

[Judd Apatow]

And that's what would keep happening with every person.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you remember the Herve Villaches was on that episode, Deep Lane, Deep Lane, you know, and he didn't know it was a fake talk show because it hadn't aired yet. But anyway, that was funny. Here's the thing that I find very, very interesting. First time, like, I've been really bad in the two movies that I did, because 125 takes, 300 rehearsals, you know, and it'll come to the way you do films. But Gary, we get on the set, there's. It was pre digital, so there's three guys with 16 million millimeter. So they're covering me, covering Gary, covering the two shot. And Gary's going, I'll say this, you say something like that. Never experienced anything like that. So when I watch it, I go, wow. Actually looks like I'm really acting. So that was also a genius part. I mean, he spawned a world, an industry.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, because you have to be loose. Yeah, he liked going deep emotionally. It's a little bit cringe comedy, which I think people picked up on.

[Dana Carvey]

Curb is a little bit like Ricky Gervais, you know. And so after that, when you got. What was the first film that you directed?

[Judd Apatow]

I directed the 40 year old virgin was the first one. And we would do table reads to try to crack it. And Gary would always come. He was so nice. And he would pitch the fix. So I said to Gary, what do I do about masturbation? Because wouldn't he just masturbate all the time?

[David Spade]

Right.

[Dana Carvey]

He's a virgin in his 40s.

[Judd Apatow]

And so we're in a room with Adam McKay and all these great writers and Seth, and we're trying to go, what would he do? And how do you not talk about that?

[Dana Carvey]

And how do you keep it. Steve Corelli. So it's not cringy with him because of his likability.

[Judd Apatow]

And then Gary just goes, maybe we just see his preparations for masturbating. And then Gary pitches out. He puts on his favorite bathrobe. He takes a shower. He puts out his tissues and his creams. And then we put on Lionel Richie. Hello Underneath it. And that was the scene. And Gary would do that. That all the time. He would tell you the great joke and the emotion. Because he did say to me once, I think the show. I think that that movie is about people who love each other. It's about love, and it's about when your friends are just trying to get laid, but you're looking for love.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. And that was his genius.

[Judd Apatow]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dana Carvey]

To balance pathos and comedy like other geniuses. Chaplin. So when you. I just hear things about the way you direct, and I don't know if you did it on that one, but you kind of. You're running a lot because you're on digital, so you're running long, long takes, which you couldn't do with 30 minutes.

[Judd Apatow]

But not back then.

[Dana Carvey]

Not back then, but I don't know when you started that. And you're kind of like, tilting people out of their preconceived choices by sort of yelling out things, do it like this. Do it like that. When did that start? Because that seems great for comedians who can improvise.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, it started with Stiller at the Ben Stiller show.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, you were doing it then?

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, because Ben. A lot of times we'd just be shooting a single of Ben doing, like, a Tony Robbins impression, and we would have a script, but then Ben would just talk for, like, another 20 minutes off the top of his head, and

[Dana Carvey]

you just run it on film.

[Judd Apatow]

And we would just run it on film. And then sometimes Ben would play this agent character, and he would be pitching bad career advice to people like Run DMC or something like that, but he would get afraid to say it to their face, so he would do a soft version, and then he would tell them they were rap for the day, and then he Would redo his single with harsher jokes, and then we would just riff and play.

[Dana Carvey]

What else could you do?

[Judd Apatow]

And then when we started doing movies, we thought, oh, you could do that in a scene. You could do that in the middle of a scene, Even for emotional stuff, not just jokes. And we did that with David on Love, where we just kept it loose and it's not always punchline driven.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, I would say that for anybody. When you're discovering it, sometimes when you think of a standup bit, the best you do it is the first time you do it, and then you try to get back to that.

[Judd Apatow]

Exactly.

[Dana Carvey]

But when you're discovering something, the camera's rolling and you're doing it for the first time, it just, a lot of times gets a lot of pop. I think that's what Brando was always trying to do by hiding notes and oranges on the ceiling so he just would experience it. So that's all I got, David.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. And I think some of the best film philosophy, some of the best stuff I've seen just as a viewer on set, is like Will Ferrell on set just doing a run of alternate lines.

[Dana Carvey]

I was going to ask you that about someone who, and probably Will Ferrell will be one of them, where you're sort of watching greatness, in a sense. And I was envious that he would get these long takes to show. That seems like so much fun.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, the one I always think about, one was Milk was a bad choice. I'm in a glass case of emotion. And Anchorman, that scene is just him and Adam for maybe it's just 15 minutes. They know they need one line, and

[Dana Carvey]

they get to go 15 minutes to get that one magic moment just going crazy.

[Judd Apatow]

Adam's yelling out stuff, Will's improvising. They've written a bunch of stuff before. There was one where I think it was that Rudd punches Will in the face in Anchorman 2. And they just wanted to get funny reactions from Ron Burgundy getting punched in the face. And Adam yells out, after he hits you, he hit you so hard. You speak in a foreign language after he hits you. And then it turned into, after he hits you, he hit you so hard, you're now five years old. And Will would just go on run after running.

[Dana Carvey]

That movie pops.

[David Spade]

I would see, you know, at the end as many of those. There's never too many for me, just to show that. And I always try to get Adam to do outtakes. Cause, you know, like, on grownups, it's all funny people. Come on, we're all fucking around the whole time. I'm sure there's something in there funny. There better be. Just. And you know. Cause we do the same thing. It's like, what are we doing this thing? And we would even huddle up in between takes.

[Judd Apatow]

And I'm a hoarder, so I actually feel bad if I don't find a way to get those alternate jokes out somewhere. I mean, it used to be on the BL and the we would do. We used to call them linoramas and just make 5 minute reels of the alternate stuff. Because if I'm like when I worked with Adam on Funny People, if he's riffing, I actually think it's gold. And the fact that we just go in the toilet, I find unbearable.

[Dana Carvey]

I agree. We may have lost minutes from our wraparounds. Right, Greg? Not to compare your feature film. This is just a basic questions I'd ask someone to do what people. The film that you were producer directed, you had a vision of it that would most realized it.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean. I mean, yeah. I mean, I do think that. I do think that the king of Staten Island. I mean there's Pete Davidson with Pete that I do think, like for what was difficult about it. Can you tell a fictional version of his story and what he's been through and make it funny, but make you really feel it? Like that tone for me, which maybe is a little more of a Hal Ashby tone, which I'm always trying to figure out. The fact that that movie works, I'm really proud of because it's balancing grief and pain, but still trying to figure out how to make people like Peach.

[Dana Carvey]

Which Hal Ashby movie do you reference in your mind?

[Judd Apatow]

I always think about last detail because

[Dana Carvey]

this ain't no horses cock.

[Judd Apatow]

I am the goddamn.

[Dana Carvey]

That's a reference with my friends and with my sons. We are the fucking Shore Patrol, motherfucker.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. I mean that energy where like that's a pretty long shot with no edits. And it just. The whole movie feels so real. It feels like a documentary. And I'm always trying to figure out, can you do that with hard comedy and have that aliveness?

[Dana Carvey]

Interesting. Yeah. Good. Coming Home. Did he do that too?

[Judd Apatow]

He did Coming Home.

[Dana Carvey]

Coming Home was crazy and amazing stuff

[Judd Apatow]

in Coming Home where they're at meetings with veterans talking about their problems. And he did a lot of it with real people and improvised it. And some of it is remarkable and very moving. So I always think about him and I think about Paul Reiser in Diner because he made up most of his stuff and they threw him into it and he created a character.

[David Spade]

It's so good when you don't know for sure what you're going to say. Or they say, you know, I get on some of these things, even in sitcoms, they go, all right, let's do another one. And just spade this time. Dealer's choice, whatever you want. And then. And you have five seconds while they walk back to the camera and say, rolling. And then you go. And then you just try something. But it's like on movies too. Just do one. Let's do one for you.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

And then sometimes they will keep rolling. Maybe you do that. And sometimes they do them one at a time. I don't mind. Keep rolling. And sometimes there's a guy there. Like there's some movies. Usually on Adams we have Swartzen or Steve Korn or someone that sits by Video Village. It's a tough job. It's grueling.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. To just to be pitching job is

[David Spade]

to pinch extra jokes.

[Judd Apatow]

I did that with Paul Lepel on a bunch of movies. I mean from Saturday Night Live. She's remarkable at the onset.

[David Spade]

And you get some winners to have

[Dana Carvey]

her on this podc. Yeah, we hear her name, sure. Yeah, she gets.

[David Spade]

Speaking of snl, what would be your dream team? This is a fucking tough question.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, I think I'd like to think of the what might have been team.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, I like that thing, you

[Judd Apatow]

know, like people that didn't get to full fruition in that space. You know, the Gilbert Gottfried, Robert Downey Jr.

[David Spade]

Robert Downey was almost a blessing in disguise that he left. Same kind of thing with you and shiny.

[Dana Carvey]

He was 84 or 5.

[David Spade]

One year.

[Dana Carvey]

One year, yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

You know who else was really funny? I mean, Terry Sweeney was so funny on the show. Michaela Watkins, you know, people that were there for a year, like Keckner, you know, and Jenny Slate, who were so good and I mean, Stiller was there for like four episodes, five shows. Bob Odenkirk was there for a few seasons, but never really could get on as a performer. So I always think about people who

[Dana Carvey]

are amazing that Conan put together an A team. Kick ass snl.

[David Spade]

Conan and Bob were writers with us and they were feature players. They're writer feature players. And I didn't even know it for probably two years because I'm sure they did. I was told, you know, don't, you know like Shoemaker or Marcy or someone says don't write yourself in right away. You know, you're here for a job. And I was like. Like, lucky to be there, but didn't. Like you were saying earlier, writing for other people. Not that I didn't want to, really. I just didn't know how to. I only barely knew how to write for my own Persona, whatever that was. And so I'm trying to think for Dana or think for, you know, whoever else. So that was hard. And then you get. I don't even know what I'm talking about. I just forgot in the middle.

[Dana Carvey]

That's all right. It's okay. I'll cover for you. So Conan.

[Paul Lennon]

Oh, yeah, same.

[Judd Apatow]

But when Conan.

[David Spade]

Those guys should have been on, and they were. And then when I heard their feature play, I go, you're not on. And they would once in a blue moon write something, and it wouldn't get on or just give themselves three lines. And I was like, wow, they're just getting shut out. So.

[Judd Apatow]

But what do you think the difference was? Because certainly I know that when you and Rob and Dave, I mean, you and Rob and Sandler got there, you were intent on getting on. It wasn't like, well, maybe I'll be a writer, and hopefully I get on. I mean, there was real energy. Like, I am here to Schneider.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, Adam for sure. From day one, he had such confidence.

[David Spade]

I was more embarrassed to do it. And they were doing it, and Rob was doing it a lot. And I was like, it's all that. Is it fair? And then he got Copy Machine on, which wasn't even. I was getting them saying, don't do an update piece this week. Oh, you know, you're here to write for people. Put that person as instead of you. And I'm like, all right, I don't want to get fired. And Schneider just had balls. So did Adam. They put shit in. Put shit in and warm down.

[Judd Apatow]

I remember going Schneider to Jerry's Deli after the Copy Machine. Oh, really hit. And he was as big a star as there is. I mean, that was one of those national catchphrases, and it was hilarious. I mean, I also love the making copies. You put your. You put your weed.

[David Spade]

Oh, that was a big one, too. Put your weed in there.

[Judd Apatow]

Put your weed in there. And so, like, Schneider was the first one who really broke on the show. What was the sketch that broke you

[David Spade]

that where you thought, I haven't broken yet.

[Dana Carvey]

A little thing I like to call Hollywood.

[David Spade]

I think it was either that one or Bye Bye. Bye Bye was more overnight where I flew the next day. And I heard it every day for at least 10 years. Like, every flight, for sure. Every.

[Dana Carvey]

Really? How funny.

[Judd Apatow]

Just like saying they're always Iraqi Pete everywhere. Iraqi Pete was kind of an incredible swing to have that kind of moment that didn't work. It was like during the Gulf War. It was just.

[Dana Carvey]

Was it funny?

[David Spade]

I think it was. And in Adam's defense, I don't think he wrote. I think it was frank and going, I reckon. And we could have some clown like Sandler come out in a Speedo or something. And, you know, it's like, okay, I was one time humiliated because I was not on for probably, like, 10 shows. And then I just. You know, people in Arizona are like, you're not even on. You're fucking obviously bombing. Which is kind of true. And I was like, no, but I was. And then one day after I passed out, I was like, walking down the hallway after my morning passed out. And then I should have faked it more during read through just to get Lauren to go, oh, someone carry him out and give him a sketch. So I go, sketch? What do you need a sketch?

[Dana Carvey]

You were. You. I don't remember you being that precarious. No, I wasn't.

[David Spade]

But anyway, I'm sort of repainting.

[Dana Carvey]

You all toured with me. Sandler toured with me. You toured with me.

[David Spade]

Opening for Dana is great.

[Dana Carvey]

Jon Stewart, open for me. Dave Chappelle.

[Judd Apatow]

Those are good shows.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I knew. Yeah. You could tell right away by the way.

[David Spade]

Dana had no trouble following me. I would go on and I would do pretty good.

[Dana Carvey]

I was going that special in those days.

[David Spade]

And then he'd walk out and they go, push me into a wall.

[Judd Apatow]

If we're to be honest, Dana is still way better than all of you by far. Like, it's not even a question. Right.

[Dana Carvey]

I want to. Is this gonna be recorded?

[David Spade]

This is.

[Judd Apatow]

I've watched it all. I mean, you guys all killed. I've watched it. Dana. All Dana. It's. It's other. It's other level stuff. Beatles explaining technology. It doesn't get funnier than that.

[Paul Lennon]

Well, you know.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, the thing is.

[Paul Lennon]

Thing about Judd, you know, he's a filmmaker, makes a lot of pictures in the cinema, you know, with the popcorn, whatever. They look up, everybody's happy. Laugh, laugh, laugh. And then a little bit of a tear. You want to see it again a week later?

[Dana Carvey]

Sorry. I love being a beetle.

[David Spade]

Yeah. I would never follow it. That's like, if you go, we're gonna do this show, and these people are going on a.

[Dana Carvey]

That was my one move once I got there after failure before and After. But I have a great, blessed life. When I got there, after a little bit of time, I thought, damn, I'm a fish in water. Now I'm like, this really fits what I do. The clubs was even tough sometimes because I had no jokes. I literally had not one punchline. It was all rhythms before you got snl, but when I got there, oh, they wanted characters, impressions, and catchphrases. I got that.

[Judd Apatow]

I remember seeing you at Igby before you got snl.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[Judd Apatow]

And that was a great small club that's now a strip club. And I remember seeing George Carlin perform there.

[Dana Carvey]

Great.

[Judd Apatow]

But I'll tell you, I mean, watching you reduce a person to what the impression was was always amazing. Like, what is your take on it? But the Biden that you do. When I saw you do Biden on. Maybe it's on Colbert or something. And I thought, oh, my God. Dana quietly has a better Biden than everybody.

[Dana Carvey]

Come on, here's a deal. Let's get real. And guess what? Guess what. We did this. This is America. I'm gonna do better. We're gonna do better. I like the yelling Biden now and then the whisper. We know how to reduce the deficits of people. Come on, folks. Number one, what the guy said. Number two, the two part. Number three, you know the drill. It's not rocket science. Come on, we can do better. We'll do it. Come on.

[David Spade]

What about.

[Dana Carvey]

He's. I'm still learning him.

[David Spade]

What about when Kamala Harris is in this. I just saw a clip of her, and she starts. She always has a nervous laugh. She's like, the Joker. She's like, they're like. They're bombing Ukraine. She's like. She's like, you wouldn't get it.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, that's. I just wonder what it'd be like to be married to her. Cuz she's. She's very attractive, and she's so cheerful. Be like, hey, Kamala, we're gonna have breakfast. I mean, seems like a really nice wife.

[Judd Apatow]

Nervous. Laughing is troubling.

[David Spade]

It's troubling.

[Judd Apatow]

It is a deeply troubling thing.

[David Spade]

Oh, wait, let me go. I'm skimmed down here. Come on.

[Judd Apatow]

Shh.

[David Spade]

Everybody shut up. This one's funny. 2007, Entertainment Weekly did the Smartest people in Hollywood. And guess what? Judd got number one.

[Dana Carvey]

What the.

[Judd Apatow]

Who was number two? I think I beat Will Smith that year.

[David Spade]

I'm sure you beat. Well, you beat everybody, but you beat everyone in Hollywood. This is unbelievable.

[Judd Apatow]

You're going really deep in research because that's the kind of thing that happens, and you go, God, I wish people talked about it more. Like, no one talks about that in 2000.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, it seems like you're like, every Monday. We had a. With Ben Stiller, too, where we looked at his IMB in his. Like, Ben, you're kind of like, whoa. And you have the same thing. Like, oh, he's there. He's producing, he's directing. It's like the resume is so big, I had to take a nap after I read it.

[David Spade]

I have a question.

[Dana Carvey]

Just point it.

[David Spade]

No, I have a question. Not about Judd. This will be great.

[Judd Apatow]

Okay.

[David Spade]

Judd, your daughter Maude, who you might not know this, she's on a show called Euphoria.

[Judd Apatow]

Yes. And I've seen. I've seen a few.

[David Spade]

Euphoria is Euphoria. It's a Showtime or hbo.

[Judd Apatow]

Every time I watch it, I think I know Spade's watching it.

[David Spade]

Right? I watched one, and I was horrified. Judd. I haven't seen that many naked wieners since my fraternity hazing. I was watching it, and I was like, what? This is what they're watching? What happened to Laverne and Shirley? And where's the simpler time? I think it's all. But first of all, huge deal. That mod's on.

[Dana Carvey]

Eric.

[David Spade]

I saw her on that, and I saw Iris was in the Bubble.

[Judd Apatow]

And Iris was in the bubble. The bubble, which comes out April 1st on let's Talk about the Bubble.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

The Bubble is my new movie to do something during the pandemic.

[Dana Carvey]

So what point of the pandemic did it hit you? When did you start shooting it? Because the pandemic hit, you wouldn't even

[David Spade]

be allowed to shoot it.

[Judd Apatow]

Well, now I look back, and I think it's almost like a nervous breakdown to want to make something during it. Because the pandemic started in March, and by a year from there, I was almost done filming the movie.

[David Spade]

And so you got it going that fast?

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, it was a very. I think maybe I had a manic episode.

[Dana Carvey]

Were you leading with the protocols then?

[David Spade]

You had green light for years.

[Dana Carvey]

Film sets and actual bubbles. Yeah, you were inventing it as you went along.

[Judd Apatow]

In a way, we were making a movie about making a movie in the bubble while making a Fun of the protocols, but also doing the protocols and making fun of. Of the need to make a movie due to your ego or your madness like that. No one needs a movie. There's something more important happening, and we're mocking people who feel it's necessary while actually doing it. The Whole thing is very hypocritical.

[Dana Carvey]

Can we make sure we edit that out and put it on Instagram? Because that's the most meta. That's hyper meta.

[Judd Apatow]

Like, we have a fake Covid supervisor in the movie who gives terrible advice and then does.

[Dana Carvey]

He's a real Covid advisor.

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, the real Covid advisor is giving the same speech five minutes before the fake.

[David Spade]

And you say, look at this clown that we're making fun of. And then you go, well, let's bring out the real guy who's exactly the same.

[Judd Apatow]

We're all wearing masks, and then the actors are, like, chewing their masks in the scene and not wearing them on their ears. And we're making fun of how no one's wearing the mask. So the whole experience was strange that way. But it started because I was really getting stir crazy, and I was walking on the beach lot with my friend Bren Forrester, who wrote for the Simpsons in the Office, and one day we were like, we should just think of stuff. Like, we're walking for hours every day.

[David Spade]

Wasted thinking and walking.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. So we started talking about the NBA bubble, and that started making us laugh. Like, all those guys are stuck in that hotel. What is that like in that hotel? And then I thought, oh, this is almost like a Christopher Guest movie.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[Judd Apatow]

You know, where all the actors are stuck in a hotel trying to make a movie and having a nervous breakdown, and then they're making a flying dinosaur action movie, and they think it's important they're not tuned into what's happening, and they're having nervous breakdowns and having sex with each other and doing drugs.

[Dana Carvey]

How was it received? Who'd you pitch it to? And how did they receive it? Especially all the CGI and all the big stuff in the middle of the pandemic. Netflix and Ted Sarandos, our best friend.

[Judd Apatow]

I told Scott Stuber, and he certainly got the joke and said, let's go do it. And I said, I'll write a script, but I'll need to be rewriting all through it because it happened very fast. And I hired people that I thought

[David Spade]

could change on the scene.

[Judd Apatow]

You had.

[David Spade]

Who's a young lady that was in Sasha's last movie?

[Judd Apatow]

Maria Baklova is in it, and Karen Gillan and Keegan, Michael Key and Leslie and Iris and Armisen is in. And Katie Cannon.

[Dana Carvey]

She's good.

[Judd Apatow]

She's incredible.

[David Spade]

McKinnon was funny. She's really good. She's great.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. She plays the head of the studio, so every time she checks in to See how it's going. She's on safari or she's skiing and she's just around the world.

[David Spade]

She's one of the rich people that like sort of is skipping the whole quarantine.

[Judd Apatow]

Exactly. And so. But we didn't have any cases the entire shoot.

[Dana Carvey]

Interesting you didn't.

[Judd Apatow]

We just, you know, because it was only two sets. It was a green screen soundstage and the hotel.

[Dana Carvey]

When did the vax come in, by the way? During the filming or when did the vaccine emerge? Were you already filming or did you have two shots and a booster?

[Judd Apatow]

I never got vaccine because I was in England and I couldn't get it in England. But around February, in the middle of the shoot, people would walk up to you and say, I got a call that I can get a vaccination at 10 tomorrow, so I'm not coming in.

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And that's how it works in England. You have an appointment and you just go. It could be like that, you know, the cinematographer is like, yeah, I'm not here tomorrow.

[David Spade]

And then slowly the crap for a while.

[Dana Carvey]

Brits are like that.

[Paul Lennon]

That I'm not going to get to. I'll get the job of tomorrow. So for the best, I'll just do it.

[Dana Carvey]

As long as you guys smile every time. As long as he smiles. Look, he's giving us so much joy.

[David Spade]

Is Lenin different than Paul Lenon is

[Paul Lennon]

very, very cryptic down here. How is it Paul who's great, you know, we're having a good time down here. How are you? I don't know, you know, just looking

[Dana Carvey]

around, whatever I don't want to do anymore. I like, you know, my one where he talks to Paul.

[Judd Apatow]

How would Paul explain talk to Joe on.

[Paul Lennon]

It's very short little clippy things. You know, when people put something on funny and they dance around. Takes about 10 seconds. And if you do it, you star all over the world. We did Abbey Road, we did the White. Oh, you know, it's like Kanye West.

[Dana Carvey]

Who's that?

[Paul Lennon]

He's sort of a talkie singer. He's a bit maybe crazy. I don't know.

[Dana Carvey]

Who was that? Who was he? Did he have a woman?

[Paul Lennon]

He had a woman named Kim Kardashian for a while.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, what did she do?

[Paul Lennon]

Oh, you know, she take pictures of the bottom, you know. How did she take pictures of her bottom? Well, with a little. A little, you know, we have a little television camera in your pocket called an iPhone. When she happened to go working, she stick her bottom out and she took a picture of it doing the whole bit.

[Dana Carvey]

What's so special about her bottom? It's.

[Paul Lennon]

It's. It's not a normal bottom. It's a bottom 2.0. It's like God made a fanny and attached a person is an afterthought. The whole family's doing. They're all showing the. Taking pictures. One man got so frustrated, he became a woman.

[Dana Carvey]

Boom. That's all I got. We don't have to keep it in here, but I like to entertain the entertainer.

[Judd Apatow]

I'm here just for that.

[David Spade]

Where else would it go?

[Judd Apatow]

One of the great things I watched in the last few years pre Pandemic, was you and Bill Hader and Mulaney at Largo doing an unproduced sketch, which was Casey Kasem and his son who don't get along. What was the premise of it?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, they don't get along. As a narrow son.

[David Spade]

We all did her first.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. And it completely bombed on Saturday Night Live. Like dead silence. And then we just got revenge at Largo by doing the exact same. Son, you're a waste of space. You don't really do much with your life at all, do you, Dad? I know you're right about that. You know, it's that kind of thing. Back and forth. Laid there at SNL, killed in front of 300 people.

[David Spade]

People.

[Dana Carvey]

But I remember that dinner, and I remember that we were. The check came and we were looking around.

[Judd Apatow]

Who took it.

[Dana Carvey]

We checked celebrity net worth and did you.

[David Spade]

Did I pay or did Spade.

[Dana Carvey]

You paid, but I almost always. So I was. I was kind of.

[David Spade]

I have a picture of us from that night. Let's look at a clip.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, let's put that on Instagram.

[David Spade]

Maybe it was. It should have been. It was a pretty solid Thursday.

[Dana Carvey]

This might be kind of awkward, but I'd like to do another long McCartney.

[David Spade]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Dana Carvey]

All right.

[David Spade]

I'd like to do the last 15 minutes of my special.

[Judd Apatow]

The. The other thing I did want to mention, because I do have to promote something, is I put out this book for charity. I had the first book, Sick in the Head. And the money goes to 826, which is a charity that gives free tutoring to kids. Kids could just walk in this place and they get free tutors, books to kids. We pay a lot of money for that. Tutorial.

[Dana Carvey]

Tutor is a tutor. And when I was doing snl, she would tutor kids downtown. Underprivileged kids. My wife Paula.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. And that's what I said.

[Dana Carvey]

I thought, how in the hell do you know how to teach someone English? Because she went to a good Catholic school. Could you teach English to a kid, A five year old, a three year old? I mean, I build the grammar and know what a dangling participle is.

[Judd Apatow]

I barely got my kids through anything school wise. And there were many, many tutors involved. So this book pays for these centers. We give all the money away. And so the new book, Sicker in the Head has like, you know, Sacha Baron Cohen and Nathan Fielder and Whoopi Goldberg and Letterman.

[Dana Carvey]

So what's the general narrative of it?

[Judd Apatow]

The narrative of it is that during the pandemic I realized that everyone was home and course of available to do this. So all these people that I thought wouldn't normally do an interview with me had no excuse to say no because I knew they were home.

[Dana Carvey]

That's the thinking.

[Judd Apatow]

And so I called Lin Manuel Miranda and Letterman and people like that that might normally be too busy and they have no excuse. Yeah. And also it's kind of an emotional interview because everyone was really thinking about their lives at the time. So the more vulnerable.

[Dana Carvey]

Can I make an observation?

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, please.

[Dana Carvey]

During the pandemic, I did the sourdough, I did the puzzles, I did Scrabble, watched a lot of movies. You made a movie and wrote a book?

[Judd Apatow]

Yes.

[Dana Carvey]

Should I see, should I talk to a therapist?

[David Spade]

I did a work.

[Dana Carvey]

I think I had two years to do something.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, I realized that because I'm promoting the book, the movie. And then in May, me and my friend Michael Bonfigo made a two part George Carlin documentary page.

[Dana Carvey]

Of course you did.

[Judd Apatow]

So I thought maybe I had a nervous breakdown for two straight years and

[Dana Carvey]

work was the way to deal with

[Judd Apatow]

it, I guess because at the time it didn't feel like I was working that much, but probably.

[David Spade]

But you were busy. You seemed to work. Yeah. And to stop in your tracks on a dime. Like one day we were working that show lights out and they go, just going for the weekend. And we're gonna have a no audience on Monday, which we thought was weird. And then even that fast, by Monday, don't come back in. We have a two week lockdown. And we're in the third year of our two week lockdown.

[Judd Apatow]

I used to listen to all of your interviews with the cast of Tiger King.

[David Spade]

Oh yeah, that's right.

[Judd Apatow]

Because you, you got everybody.

[David Spade]

I know, it's so weird.

[Judd Apatow]

And you got that reporter who had all his tapes burned. That was an incredible interview with that guy. He, he was like, this stuff actually isn't funny. They're really just.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Torturing and killing all these animals. And he. He. He was the only one who really told the truth.

[David Spade]

Dana, you don't even know. I did a deep dive. I was the Wolf Blitzer.

[Dana Carvey]

I remember the Tiger King interviews.

[David Spade]

It was just sort of Pentagon papers. I just hit them up on Instagram. Some of these people, we just found them and said, do you want to do it? They go, it was mostly because of Joe Dirt.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. Because you.

[David Spade]

They all like Joe Dirt. Yeah. So they go, oh, I'm one of them and I'm not going to go after them. And I didn't really. I let them tell their story.

[Dana Carvey]

Joe Dirt is huge in sort of the. Whatever you call that part of the world, Red. The world. While I'm in your house. Something paid off.

[David Spade]

Well, you know, because I have seven Joe Dirt posters on the way to the podcast.

[Judd Apatow]

So the Tiger King himself, himself loves Joe Dirt.

[David Spade]

That's what I've heard. Yeah. But I never really chased after trying to play him because it was kind of like jodor and it didn't seem that fun or appealing. But it was so fun to watch it during then and be a part of it all. And it was such a. It was like the first big thing during the break.

[Dana Carvey]

Have you seen the new one? I mean, one just came out with Kate McGinnon and John Cameron Mitchell.

[David Spade]

I haven't seen it. I don't know.

[Judd Apatow]

I haven't seen it yet. I wanted to. To see it. Yeah. That's fascinating. But I actually really enjoyed those interviews because you went deep with everyone. So we watched this thing, which always felt watered down when I watched it. I always thought, this is so much worse than this. And then you would get real conversations with people where they laid it out. So I implore everyone to go down that. That's a good YouTube well to watch.

[David Spade]

Yeah, they were nice. I'm like, when that tiger chewed off your arm, did you feel that? Were you allowed to take a lunch break after she went back to work after that?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, she did.

[David Spade]

She went back. That was interesting. I was like, you sh.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, it's interesting how things become such cultural phenomenon. So like a wildfire, like squid game after that.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Talking about Netflix now. Just like, boom. Everyone has to see it. Everyone talks about it. A fury frenzy. And then. Can I ask you a question?

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

Yes.

[Dana Carvey]

Because I'm such fascinated by George Carlin. What did you do in a documentary? Okay. Bubble. When's bubble come out? The bubble.

[Judd Apatow]

April 1.

[Dana Carvey]

April 1. The book is out now.

[Judd Apatow]

The book you can pre buy now and then.

[Dana Carvey]

The documentary about George Carlin may like 20. What did you take away from that? What did you discover about George Carlin that you might not have known? What was your sense after doing a deep dive on him?

[Judd Apatow]

I didn't really know that much about him because he never mentioned his family in his act. He had no jokes about his wife or his daughter.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Judd Apatow]

And so I thought, well, how. I don't know him.

[David Spade]

Sure.

[Judd Apatow]

How could I even.

[David Spade]

Was he a weirdo or was he pretty normal?

[Judd Apatow]

Well, he was a guy that grew up in New York. His dad used to beat up his older brother, and there's a lot of alcoholism. And the mom ran away with the kids and moved to upstate New York in the 50s, and maybe even the late 40s. And then she had to raise him alone. And then he loved radio and Danny Kay and got into everything through that. But the fascinating part is, you know, he had a very corny career in the beginning.

[Dana Carvey]

Hippie, dippy, weatherman, very variety show for a while.

[Judd Apatow]

And then at some point, like Richard Pryor, he just became himself and grew a beard and long hair and got very edgy. Then he kind of ran out of gas and got soft again, had a heart attack and talked about his stuff. And those bits were great, but also very, very soft. And then he saw Kinison, and this is the thing we learned.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, was Kinison.

[Judd Apatow]

The hook that he saw Kinison and he said, I'm not going to be soft compared to him. And then he went, for the rest of his life, he just added Kinison.

[Dana Carvey]

You were all diseased. Is it?

[Judd Apatow]

Yes.

[David Spade]

Are you talking about post, like the seven words?

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah. It was just pretty heyday, right? He went, really?

[David Spade]

I didn't even know that.

[Dana Carvey]

Still funny, at least. You are all diseases. Really funny.

[Judd Apatow]

It was really dark. But also the reason why we made it was because if you go online, whenever anything happens in the news, George Carlin trends, and people are putting up clips of his bits about America or about Big pharma abortion or corporate America controlling politics. And you realize, unlike most people whose acts age out and they don't really work anymore, no one listens to Lenny Bruce anymore. His stuff gets better. And he kind of predicted everything that's happening.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I saw him at 14. He used to listen to albums, Steve Martin and everyone. And then George Cullen was in the mix. And I was like, this guy's fucking funny. No aspiration to be a comedian. It was too high up, too good. It was just more like kids, like comedy, you know.

[Dana Carvey]

Here's an example Of a line or just hitting it like, everyone's into the children. We gotta save the children. We love the children. You know what I say? The children. Fuck the children. You go in a classroom, there's one winner and a whole lot of losers. I mean, it was just so, so politically incorrect. Yeah, check it out. You're all diseased.

[Judd Apatow]

Another line of that is like, have you ever noticed that everyone who's against abortion is someone you wouldn't want to fuck?

[Dana Carvey]

You know, these, these stinky motherfuckers in their fucking tank tops. Let's get them in a. Get them in a field, put them on a pedestal and shoot them in the head. You would say that stuff like that. I'm loosely paraphrasing.

[Judd Apatow]

He went hard. And in the documentary debates, did he go too dark?

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, did it get to like just an angry guy, as opposed to angry guy being funny?

[Judd Apatow]

I mean, and some people love it. And, and there are people in the documentary comedians, some who say they like. And some people say. I think, I think he. He lost that.

[David Spade]

How did he pass away?

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, I mean, he.

[Dana Carvey]

He'd had heart attacks.

[Judd Apatow]

He had a lot of heart problems. And I think he did a lot of cocaine for a long time. It feels like maybe he had some sort of. Sort of OCD or attention issues that led to the fact that he would do a lot of cocaine and not hang out with people. He would just write. He loved to write. He loved words and he would listen to music. But there were a lot of years where he was doing that. I mean, we have audio of him talking into tape recorders in the middle of three day binges by himself. Wow, that's pretty scary.

[Dana Carvey]

And people would sometimes go up to him and go, any advice? And he would just, just say, write everything down. That was. That was it.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Because he was a master of word for word.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. He didn't like, riff on stage. He didn't play on stage.

[Dana Carvey]

It was poetry.

[Judd Apatow]

It was like. Yeah, like he wrote like a show and had to memorize it. When I saw him, he would just sit before the show just trying to memorize it and do it perfectly. And if someone yelled something out, he was not cool with it. He wanted to just keep going.

[Dana Carvey]

His lists, his hooks, Big shoes, little shoes, brown shoes, black shoes, boy shoes, girl shoes, shoes, everyone needs shoes, Tall shoes, boots, Jumbo. He would make these crazy lists and he's in his 70s, had a couple strokes and he's just like so articulate.

[David Spade]

It's a hernia.

[Dana Carvey]

Brilliant.

[David Spade]

You know, and what is It a hernia and a she.

[Judd Apatow]

Oh, I know. The bit that you're talking about should

[David Spade]

be called a himnea.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah. What we saw was that there was a period where people got bored of him for a little while. And so on Second City tv, Rick Moranis would do this brutally mean impression where he would say things like that and do like, you know, George Carlin starring in Death of a Salesman.

[Dana Carvey]

And they make fun of that.

[Judd Apatow]

They would make fun of him. And there was a moment where Cheech from Cheech and Chong said, george Carlin's over. All he talks about is things like peas, you know, eating your peas. And then that really bothered him and it made him redouble his effort. So where most of them.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, he just went hard and said,

[Judd Apatow]

okay, now I gotta show you all.

[Dana Carvey]

I waited on him at the Circle Star or at the Holiday Inn near the Circle Star Theater. Wow. Brought him a bowl of oatmeal, put it in front of me. He goes, oatmeal, drop the O. And you have at meal. I said, give it a rest, Jordan. But he did. There's no blue oatmeal.

[David Spade]

There's blueberries. Oh, yeah, Blueberries, strawberries. There's no blue food. Scratch that one.

[Dana Carvey]

You know, I. I just have that theory that eventually almost everyone becomes a caricature of themselves. You know, like Johnny Carson had come kind of. Or you'd watch someone and go, is that an impersonator or the person? Because you have your hooks and you have your things. And then eventually you're. You get exposed. And that's when I pounce. Later on, when they're sad and used up, then I rub it in their face. But at least I'm honest.

[David Spade]

Anything left for Apatow? I have one.

[Dana Carvey]

One last question. How do you spell Apatow? Because I worked for the IRS. 1P, 1P.

[David Spade]

And your mom drove a red car.

[Dana Carvey]

Did they tease you as a kid with Apatow? Hey, Judd appetizer. Did you get any of that or. No, I had Dana car keys. Dana car keys. Why did I think Judd appetizer? That's what I would have said.

[Judd Apatow]

No, the. I remember they used to call me the nose.

[David Spade]

Oh, good job.

[Judd Apatow]

It's always weird when people are anti Semitic when every single kid in your high school is Jewish, but they're still anti Semitic.

[Dana Carvey]

That's the. I'm a self hating white person.

[David Spade]

Yeah, Everyone can't help bullying. It's so funny about. Bullying is. Bullying is worse than it's ever been. And all the data is in it's bad. You know, like we think. I guess we fixed it.

[Dana Carvey]

Makes you stronger. That's good for you kids, your soul.

[Judd Apatow]

I just wonder, if I was a kid and I was like 10, 11 years old and like Twitter existed, would I be one of those asshole kids just trying to give everyone shit? Because if I go on it, there's always, like, people who are trying to find my wound.

[Dana Carvey]

To get your response.

[Judd Apatow]

Yes. And if you do respond, they're always like, oh, my God, I'm your biggest fan, no matter how.

[Dana Carvey]

And then they start lying if you respond.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah, but would I have been one of those kids? Because I think I would have found it funny potentially to just give people.

[Dana Carvey]

I think you might have been until you thought it tipped a kid over into self harm. I don't think you seem like, too nice to.

[Judd Apatow]

No, I mean attacking like a. Like someone in the public sphere.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, I see.

[David Spade]

People say mean things and if I block them, someone will say, hey, don't block my friend. He loves you. And you go, it was the meanest. And they go, he's being funny. But you can't even tell when people are funny that your friends are texting you. You can't tell the tone sometime, so you don't know what's going on. And then when someone you don't know is like, hey, you. You suck. And then you go, oh, okay, I don't need that guy anymore.

[Dana Carvey]

I was being funny. What's the general meanest thing they say? You know, if anyone can find tape of Dana Carvey being funny, I'd like to see it. You know, there's certain generic put downs for comedians. No, but they. There's this podcast and got a partner.

[David Spade]

All right.

[Judd Apatow]

If I promote something, they'll just say, I'll watch it if you'll cut an hour out of it.

[Dana Carvey]

So that

[Judd Apatow]

this is 40 minutes.

[Dana Carvey]

The bubble.

[Judd Apatow]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Which is out when?

[Judd Apatow]

Solid two hours.

[David Spade]

Okay, solid two hours.

[Dana Carvey]

Two hours in, out.

[Judd Apatow]

Some people want 90 minutes, but the other 30 is the same price.

[Dana Carvey]

I did Master Disguise and then we had to cut it down to 58 minutes. It didn't even make sense. Wasn't even a language because. Because you. You bailed out. You were going to do a sandler film called Mr. Pete or Sneaky Pete or something.

[David Spade]

Oh, puka Pete.

[Dana Carvey]

Puka Pete. And then you got mad at. So now you were. Fred Wolf had a falling out. So then I was in. In line. So I did a read through and they go, carver, you got to go in a week. But anyway, I go it's not even a movie. It's just words on a piece of paper.

[Judd Apatow]

But we have a crew.

[Dana Carvey]

We have a cut to 58 minutes and then it has 12 minutes of fake. Well, outtake. So it made. It had to be a certain length anyway. That's my experience with film. But the bubble comes. I like to promote May.

[Judd Apatow]

April 1st.

[Dana Carvey]

April 1st. April Fool's Day. The Bubble on Netflix.

[David Spade]

Love it.

[Dana Carvey]

In the head. Out now.

[David Spade]

Two nights ago I saw it.

[Dana Carvey]

No, I got. I didn't want to tell bum. I really sat down to watch it last night. I had it on the Netflix. Went for the pin number number and couldn't find an email. Talked.

[Judd Apatow]

That's what happens at 90 of the people we send it to. But you were able to watch it. You got in and what did you.

[David Spade]

Listen, I'm a guy that.

[Judd Apatow]

Did you enjoy it?

[David Spade]

I did a wordle in under two hours yesterday.

[Judd Apatow]

Did he get through it?

[David Spade]

I got through it.

[Dana Carvey]

No, did you get through it, David?

[David Spade]

Yeah. Gave me anything.

[Judd Apatow]

Do you have any notes?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. What about the ending? What'd you think of that trick ending?

[David Spade]

Yeah. Oh,

[Dana Carvey]

come on.

[David Spade]

I just started to say the word helicopter. I said a couple things. No, but they. I like Keenan. I thought Keenan. Michael. He was funny. I thought your daughter did a great job.

[Judd Apatow]

My daughter played your daughter in love?

[David Spade]

Yeah, she was great. She was very fun on the set and very non bratty. And she plays. She looks totally different. She's very actressy. Different hair, different haircut. Plays a tick tocker and has millions of followers. They're all stuck in the bubble that looks like a castle. Is that a hotel? I mean where. Where did you do that?

[Judd Apatow]

It's called like Cliveden. I guess there's a famous scandal there where like someone in the government had an affair there. There's like a U.

[Dana Carvey]

Grant haunted kind of house.

[Judd Apatow]

The beetle shot help there.

[Dana Carvey]

Really? Yeah.

[David Spade]

You did over there.

[Dana Carvey]

Full circle.

[David Spade]

Oh, who is the first AD that looks like James Bond? A little bit Daniel Craig.

[Judd Apatow]

The first AD that looks like.

[David Spade]

No, he's a studio guy who's the guy that comes in. He's always standing in every scene you do.

[Judd Apatow]

Seraphinowitz.

[David Spade]

Okay.

[Judd Apatow]

Oh, he's hysterical. He played the tick in that TV show.

[David Spade]

That was the answer to my word all question.

[Dana Carvey]

Another jaw impression. So anyway, we'll close you with this. Judd Apatos here. You know, does. Does a lot of great movies. Drinks. Bruce's right?

[David Spade]

I would have read all your movies, but everyone knows them. They're all fucking books.

[Dana Carvey]

If there's a pandemic or an earthquake. He just goes right into work mode. I don't know what it is.

[David Spade]

You call Scott Suber after the big one. We should do an earthquake movie. He's like, well, nothing works right now. Judd.

[Dana Carvey]

Judd, Pleasure.

[David Spade]

Thank you for coming.

[Dana Carvey]

Thanks for coming and being in house.

[David Spade]

We're in the house. We're in Spade's house.

[Judd Apatow]

You know why I came last thing? Because I don't like hearing this zoom sound. Let's get people on a real microphone. So we got two years to figure this out.

[David Spade]

That's a. That's a director that does what? Totally agree.

[Dana Carvey]

It's a little bit like comedy waterboarding when you do it on zoom. You're not.

[David Spade]

Can't you guys. I want to show you one of my five pantries.

[Dana Carvey]

That's it. Let's go.

[David Spade]

Hey, what's up, flies? What's up, fleas? What's up, people that listen. We want to hear from you and your dumb questions.

[Dana Carvey]

Questions. Ask us anything. Anything you want.

[David Spade]

You can email [e-mail] hey, Dana. Hey, David Spade. The question is. This is from Uvaldo.

[Dana Carvey]

Uvaldo Garcia.

[David Spade]

My question is, is there a common denominator to which SNL alum goes go on to be megastars and which don't? Or is it as simple as having great characters that capture America's attention? Or is it something deeper? This is a 12 parter.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, first of all, if we knew how to become megastars, we would be megastars.

[David Spade]

You think we're holding back on that one?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, we went to the megastar symposium with Tony Robbins was teaching it. You gotta get it. His hands are as big as my whole body.

[David Spade]

I accidentally went to the megastore Costco

[Dana Carvey]

and yeah, I would just say that there's an intersection between talent and the marketplace. And it's you. When you're. When you're young and naive, you go, well, the best band will be the biggest band that only happened once and that was the Beatles. And the best, the funniest guy will also make the most money. So get rid of all that.

[David Spade]

I can go to the comedy Store and see three people funnier than me. It's just. And they're not doing as well as me as showbiz wise. But it's just. It's a combination of a million things. So if you're doing well, it's a lot of its luck. But I think you have to bring it over and over and over because everything's a fucking Audition. People can lose faith in you somewhere along the way and go, you don't got it.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, yeah. Now people go live, streaming movies, and no one knows if it bombed or whatever. But back in the day, a movie star, if that person had two bombs in a row, you kind of had to go back in line and then wait a lot of years. But again, all you can go back to is trying to do a good job at whatever you're doing. But Omega Star megastar has a mega mansion.

[David Spade]

There's not that many left. It's me, Dana. And then I can't even think of anyone megastars have.

[Dana Carvey]

They don't talk about the security, cybersecurity, physical security. Everyone treats them weird. I don't know about the goal of megastar as opposed to like just being funny and employed. I don't know. Did you ever dream about being megastar?

[David Spade]

Brad, I feel like, has a tough life and he would never say it himself. But I feel like just everywhere you go, if you connect eyes with someone, they go, that's fucking broken, Brad Pitt. And they don't know how to act and they get weird. And even when he meets other celebrities, they freak out. So that's being a mega. When you're in room with other.

[Dana Carvey]

That's. It's too much energy in the room. And I get starstruck by fame. I mean with Brad Pitt, you know, if I met him, he'd go, we're gonna go over here and get a. Get some pizza. I go, that's a good plan. I like what you're doing. I like being on your podcast, David, because you got good witnesses. I'm Brad Pitt. I'm chiseled, tan. No, but being a sex symbol. And I'll let David speak to this. Being a sex symbol has a different energy. There's a megastar, just goofy comedian, but then there's a megastar who's a sexual star. Then you get guys or weirdos in your bushes hiding out for women especially. I'm so glad that I never reached megastar status. That's all I'm saying.

[David Spade]

I hate that I reached it so

[Dana Carvey]

good at the grocery store. No one cares. Cares. I take the mask off, the hat off. I go, hey, everybody.

[David Spade]

I went the actual stars route, which was stupid.

[Dana Carvey]

Early on, he was a porn star.

[David Spade]

And then wee bit of time and then I went back to. I just wanted to see what. I don't remember what my old life was. I'm gonna be a bus boy again. No, I don't know. That's a stupid answer, but thank you for asking a question. And yeah, we've been Dana and David and we've been done. Hey guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, give us a review, five star rating and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

[Dana Carvey]

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

[David Spade]

Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santa Toro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung Kaiser and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey.

[Dana Carvey]

Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman and the show is produced and edited by

[David Spade]

Phil Sweet tech booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

[Dana Carvey]

Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Ch, Sherry Kurt Courtney and Lauren Vieira.

[David Spade]

Reach out with us. Any questions be asked and answered on the show? You can email us at flyonthewall at odyssey. Com. That's a U D A C Y com.