RE-RELEASE - Julia Sweeney

Summary

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Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey & David Spade

"RE-RELEASE - Julia Sweeney"

Guest: Julia Sweeney
Release Date: April 22, 2026
Duration Covered: [02:21] – [61:42]

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Episode Overview

This episode is a re-release of an interview with Julia Sweeney, celebrated Saturday Night Live (SNL) alum, humorist, and creator of the androgynous “It's Pat” character. Dana Carvey and David Spade catch up with Sweeney for a deep, witty, and candid trip down SNL memory lane: exploring the mechanics of sketch comedy, SNL’s evolving gender politics, the joy and heartache of one-person shows, and the personal fallout of showbiz highs and lows. There’s plenty of comedy banter, but also reflective, open discussion of belief, cultural change, and resilience in the face of controversy.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

Julia's Path: SNL, Groundlings, and the "It's Pat" Phenomenon

• Groundlings & SNL Jump: Julia came from the Groundlings to SNL. She describes the transition as initially naive about showbiz competitiveness, noting she “didn't realize people got jealous over those things” ([09:30]).
• Dynamic on SNL: The cast discusses the competitive and sometimes brutal nature of SNL, especially compared to the collaborative Groundlings ([10:33]).
• The “Utility Player”: Julia and the hosts reflect on her role as a female “utility player”—often brought in to support a variety of sketches, sometimes overshadowed by gender ratios on the cast ([12:00], [13:30]).
• Women at SNL: The trio explores how Tina Fey and others shifted SNL’s gender politics, moving from “three women, seven to ten guys” to a more inclusive ensemble ([14:01], [15:13]).

Creating & Performing One-Person Shows

• Letting Go of God: Julia delves into her transition to atheism and her acclaimed “Letting Go of God” stage show, describing its philosophical depth and comedic challenge ([03:38]–[06:57]).
  • Quote: “I don't live my life under the assumption that there is a deity watching what I do.” — Julia ([04:05])
  • Sweeney was motivated by personal transformation, not advocacy—a deep, comedic examination of belief.
• Comic Identity: She laments the boundaries between stand-up and one-person shows, noting the difficulty in being recognized as a comic for tackling complex topics ([06:57]).

Reflections on “It’s Pat” and the Sketch’s Legacy

• Intent & Backlash: Julia explains the intention was always to lampoon the confusion of those around Pat, not Pat's androgyny—though she’s aware of today’s conversations and would approach it differently now ([19:06]).
  • Quote: "I always thought the joke was mostly about the people around Pat who were freaking out...I wasn't thinking of androgynous people as an SNL audience." — Julia ([19:06])
• Anecdote—Supreme Court and the “Pat Suit”: Julia tells a bittersweet story of bringing her “Pat” outfit to SNL, on a faint hope of a Supreme Court sketch—only to have no one mention it ([21:04]–[22:51]).
  • Memorable moment: “The sad fact of me, at 58...packing my Pat outfit in a suitcase...hoping that maybe we do a Pat sketch” ([21:09])

Sketch Comedy, Competition, and SNL Culture

• Gender in Comedy Sketches: Julia and the hosts note the limited space for women in sketches and the internalized biases even among progressive cast members ([14:09]–[15:16]).
• Cast Changes and Personal Highs/Lows: Julia discusses how the departure of her writing partner Christine Zander and a shift to “bro sketches” left her sidelined in her final SNL year ([30:04]–[31:56]).
• Navigating Aging and Self-Discovery: The group laughs about getting older in Hollywood, changing career ambitions, and embracing simpler joys ([58:36]–[60:59]).

Pop Culture, Cancel Culture, and Social Issues

• Portrayals & Sensitivity: Reflecting on past sketches (like “Lyle Bullop, the effeminate heterosexual”), Dana and Julia note shifting social mores—and some sketches that wouldn't be done today ([17:22]–[18:33]).
• Cancel Culture & Al Franken: Julia recounts her personal sense of injustice over Al Franken’s Senate resignation and her abandoned one-person show about the episode ([47:23]–[50:51]).
  • Quote: "I was crazed with anger at how the MeToo movement had been twisted up in the worst possible way to go after this great guy, in my opinion." — Julia ([48:29])

SNL Memories & Iconic Cast Members

• Phil Hartman’s Influence: Julia describes Phil as an organized, egoless master, recalling his teaching and calming presence ([27:46], [28:21]).
• Alec Baldwin & Impressions: Anecdotes about Baldwin, mimicry, and SNL’s tradition of “bad impressions on purpose” ([35:45]).
• Motivational Speaker Sketch: Julia and David reminisce about cracking up during Farley’s iconic “motivational speaker” performance ([53:07]–[54:24]).
  • Quote: “It was really just seeing the funniest thing, and you knew it was going to live forever...and I can't stop laughing” — Julia ([53:42])

SNL Characters and Movies

• “It’s Pat” the Movie: Julia recalls the excitement and pain of making a Pat movie outside Lorne Michaels’ production, and her gratitude despite the box-office outcome ([42:41]–[44:34]).
  • Quote: “I know I just wasted $8 million of your money, really, but I learned so much and had a great time...I just want to say everything about it was really great.” — Julia ([44:07])
• Adapting Sketches to Films: Discussion of why some SNL characters work as movies (Wayne & Garth) and why others, like “Pat,” are a tougher fit ([45:02]–[47:05]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Julia on Atheism and Comedy:
  • “To American ears, atheist sounds like I hate puppies and flowers.” ([03:52])
  • “All the drama takes place in your head. That was really hard. I had to make stories and conform to normal dramatic structure.” ([05:18])
• On SNL’s Gender Culture:
  • “You have three women and seven to ten guys and that's how it is.” ([13:30])
  • “I had that prejudice myself...it took a long time for me to see how much the sexism was even in myself.” ([15:13])
• Reflecting on Leaving SNL:
  • "I could hardly wait to leave at the end of that year. But up until then...it really was very exciting." ([31:57])
• On Past Sketches and Changing Values:
  • “We did a lot of things that we couldn't do now.” — Dana ([17:22])
• On "Breaking" on Live TV During Iconic Sketches:
  • “We all started to break, and that’s the problem...Back then, I think they do it more now, but it was definitely a no-no.” — David ([54:24])

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Timestamps by Topic

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:21–03:46 | Julia's background, one-person shows, and atheism | | 03:46–08:38 | Letting Go of God, personal religious journey, and approach to comedy | | 09:13–14:09 | Groundlings and SNL transitions, cast competition, and female roles | | 14:09–16:49 | Feminism, sketch writing for women, and impact of Tina Fey | | 16:49–19:47 | Playing political figures, sexism in sketch casting, and character work | | 19:47–22:51 | The “It’s Pat” legacy and Supreme Court story | | 26:15–31:56 | SNL cast arrivals, Phil Hartman, cast camaraderie, and writing partnerships | | 31:56–35:56 | Final SNL year struggles, nostalgia, and performance reflections | | 35:56–44:34 | SNL memories—impressions, sketch writing, and “It’s Pat” the movie | | 47:23–50:51 | Cancel culture and Julia’s Al Franken one-person show | | 53:07–54:24 | Breaking during live sketches: Farley’s Motivational Speaker | | 56:01–58:36 | SNL’s evolution under Lorne Michaels, gender/role boundaries | | 58:36–61:32 | Aging, LA life, retired entertainers, and staying connected |

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Tone & Language

• The episode maintains a witty, self-deprecating, and warmly candid tone.
• Julia is articulate and reflective, mixing honesty about skepticism and struggle with comedic timing.
• Dana and David offer supportive banter, frequent self-mockery, and quick improvisational riffs.

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a rare, vivid, and unfiltered backstage pass to both the golden era and shifting culture of SNL, the challenges of breaking new comedic ground, and the personal resilience required to last in show business. Julia Sweeney’s journey—moving from Groundlings innocence to SNL stardom, confronting faith, and weathering setbacks with humor—offers sharp insight, nostalgia, and inspiration for comedy fans, creatives, and anyone interested in the evolving world of entertainment.

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Transcript

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[Dana Carvey]

Sweeney I was shared several years on Saturday Night Live. So did David, and we had this really nice interview with her, so we're bringing her back. In case you missed it, she's she had a character named It's Pat that was kind of a big hit on snl. There was a movie. It was controversial in its own way. But she's very talented and very open about androgynous character.

[David Spade]

Everyone tried to figure out if it was a man or woman. That was a big joke and it was funny. She also was a strong utility player because, like Phil, as a female, she would come in and she was in a lot of sketches because of this. And she could play anything and throw a wig on and give her an accent. And it was fun to sit with her and look back because we were there a lot at the same time.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Early 90s.

[Dana Carvey]

Just good.

[David Spade]

You know, you always focus on the fun and some of the tough times. But we overall, we all had a great time there. And she was a trip down memory lane. Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

One of the greats, Julia Sweeney. You've done two or three one woman shows based on.

[Julia Sweeney]

Well, really just one.

[Dana Carvey]

Letting go of God was the.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, that's the religion. 1. The other ones are other things God said.

[Dana Carvey]

Ha. Yeah, got it.

[Julia Sweeney]

But.

[Dana Carvey]

So you're an atheist.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yes. Although I really.

[Dana Carvey]

It sounds so negative, but it's just atheist.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yes. Well, no, because to American ears, atheist sounds like I hate puppies and flowers.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. It's got a Nazi ass thing to it or something.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah. Even though the Nazis weren't atheists, but. Which I'm always explaining to people. Okay. But anyway, well, Ken's responsibility. Catholicism. But yeah, I. Yeah, I mean, I've had a. Yeah. I don't believe. I don't. Let me put it this way. I don't live my life under the assumption that there is a deity watching what I do.

[Dana Carvey]

Right.

[Julia Sweeney]

I guess that makes me an atheist.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, I guess. I don't know what I. I keep coming back to this, like, I can't comprehend infinity. That there was no beginning or end to this whatever. Why. Why do things exist and when did they get here? So I keep going around with that. I did know a Jehovah's Witness once who told me he could understand infinity. I said, so you can think of a God who never was not here, was always here. He looked up and he goes, yeah, I got it. Yep. Yep.

[David Spade]

I want to say to the record, I like puppies and I like flowers.

[Julia Sweeney]

Me too.

[David Spade]

I think, Julie, what people. Is the. It hits the ear. Like, if you don't believe in that, then you don't believe. What we believe is that that created those things. So you're against everything. Is that kind of what the vibe is?

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, that's it. And it's like a very. I used to think I could. I don't know What I thought, I guess I thought doing my show I would change people's mind. I wasn't doing it to change people's mind. Actually, the reason I did the show is because for me it was a huge, huge, the philosophical transformation. I wasn't particularly religious before, so it was about age 40 that this happened. Well, I was religious, I wanted to be a nun in high school. I was completely committed, but I let it kind of go away. And then I had a crisis in my life that made me believe more like I really felt, you know, I had religious experiences. And then after that I started trying to think, well, what was going on with those experiences. And then as I learned more and more about the brain and how we evolved, then I finally read the Bible. And then over two years I realized that I could explain it psychologically or naturally or I didn't need a God to explain what happened to me. And then, so then I wanted. That was a big dramatic change in my life. And I had been doing these one person shows about things like that. So I thought, oh, that's a good challenge to kind of do a one person show about a change of mind. That all the dramas all takes place in your head. And that was really hard. And I didn't necessarily achieve, achieve it. I had to make stories and you know, like I had to conform to normal dramatic structure. But I did it and it was probably my most popular show and. But I wasn't thinking I'm going to convince people to be an atheist.

[David Spade]

It was more like they have comedic tones, I'm sure.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh yes, it was. Actually I felt defensive about it because I felt like I was getting as many laughs per five minutes as comedians were. But because it was a difficult topic, I wasn't considered a stand up, you know. Like.

[David Spade]

Right. And well, it's a brave topic and that's harder in stand up. It's more respected in a way to try to tackle things. Instead of 7:11, which I tackle, I

[Dana Carvey]

watched about 12 minutes of it. I thought it was really charming and the way you walked yourself into it was very disarming for the audience. But yeah, did I ever believe in a magic God and all that stuff? No, I'm with you on that. I mean I never, never bought it and no one bought it in the Lutheran church, even the pastors, you could tell.

[Julia Sweeney]

I fully believe now that everyone, no one really believes it. I mean, like I think about tribalism and history and affection for the ritual and affection for the way of life. And so it almost is like it Was useless to try to argue rationally with someone about it. It isn't a rational choice. It's usually you're born into it or you have an emotional thing that makes you join something because it helps your life, like. And you know, I don't care. That's fine with me. With people like I'm not, you know.

[Dana Carvey]

So I went back to the Catholic Church with my wife and I found it just interesting because they were talking about Pontius Pilate and stuff, you know, and it's like, wow, they're still doing it. It was like going back in time,

[David Spade]

but I'm still doing these bits.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, but David.

[Julia Sweeney]

I know it's the old material.

[Dana Carvey]

David, have you ever had this?

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, now I kind of as a hobby follow these right wing Catholics. It's interesting.

[Dana Carvey]

Right wing, okay.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh yeah. There's a huge schism coming in the church, I think.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, that makes sense.

[Julia Sweeney]

There's the Latin Massers and they're the people who are with Pope Benedict and not with Pope Francis and they think Francis is the anti Pope.

[Dana Carvey]

Did you say Pope Benedict or Pope wanna dick? Good night. Sorry. Okay. Anyway, I canceled. I'm sorry. I'm canceled every five minutes.

[David Spade]

I like that one I just made.

[Julia Sweeney]

That's a good one.

[Dana Carvey]

I just made it up. Anyway, should we talk about your other supernatural experience? Meeting David Spade in 19. That's Julia.

[David Spade]

When you got. My question for Julia is. And then we're going to get to me and Julia, of course, when she. I think you came from groundlings. So when they're. When. When that happens and you can explain how it happens. Is there any jealousy when someone gets plucked out of groundlings?

[Julia Sweeney]

Well, it's so funny. I think I was so naive. I didn't think anyone was jealous of me. I wasn't jealous of other people. But now I understand that most people get really jealous of those things. I mean, so I was just kind of oblivious about it towards me and the people who got on before me, like Phil Hartman and John Lovitz, who I only didn't know well. But I knew Phil a lot better than John. But I didn't feel jealous. I just thought, wow, that's so exciting. I didn't. But there's something wrong with me that I don't feel that way. I actually don't feel that way.

[David Spade]

No, it's an innocence. It's a nice innocence that you might. You learn later. Like, oh, shit, they're mad at me because of this. Or I started to feel those tingles of jealousy at snl to be honest. And.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh, at snl, that's different of getting on.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Well, at Groundlings, everyone's good too, you know, But SNL is just a whole nother level, like going from college probably to. Oh, yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

I mean, my experience with the Growlings was all for one and one for all, and if someone gets something, we're all happy. And then at snl, it took me a long time to understand how to be competitive, you know, like, I didn't. It was really brutal. Yeah. I was really kind of a lamb fed to the sharks in certain ways. But I did adapt.

[Dana Carvey]

Melanie. Melanie Hutzel, we talked with recently, and she did.

[Julia Sweeney]

I love her.

[Dana Carvey]

And she's so sweet and so Southern. And she talked about that. The difference. The standups were kind of trained to kill.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

And destroy. Elbow out. Right. And seemed like the Growlings were sweeter and nicer overall.

[Julia Sweeney]

No way. I mean, I'm sure I was naive and I was. And frankly, I was succeeding so much I didn't know. That sounds arrogant to say, but at that moment, I was succeeding enough that I didn't have any awareness of the competitiveness of it. I was just thought we were all doing it and. But then when I got to snl. Well, actually. And I feel like I had mostly really good experience there, but now that I'm older and I look back, I think I. I really didn't understand what was going on. I didn't understand how hard you had to compete. I thought we were all just going to look out for each other.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, well, when. When Nora and Jen left and you came in, it seemed like you had a lot of. You were very active initially. You were doing stuff before I was beaten down. Well, you became the go to wife.

[David Spade]

Solid utility.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. You were just sketch, in a sense. You and Phil had that sort of a lot of sketches together. Right. And you were very active. Your first.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, I mean, he was with. Jan was mostly his wife, but I was like. I was the B team wife.

[Dana Carvey]

But then Jan left the show and there you were. And then you came. You were the alternative wife.

[David Spade]

Did you and Jan overlap?

[Dana Carvey]

A year and maybe Nora One year.

[Julia Sweeney]

Okay, A year, yeah.

[David Spade]

And Nora. Not at all.

[Julia Sweeney]

No, because I think I replaced her,

[David Spade]

if you think of it like that. Chased her out is what we call it.

[Julia Sweeney]

There was several shows she was not at.

[Dana Carvey]

Sharp elbows. You got some sharp elbows, Sweeney.

[David Spade]

Yeah, but that's a good SNL book title.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. Sharp elbows.

[David Spade]

Well, yeah, Julius. So you come in, you get plucked from the Groundlings. Was it anyone Else with you, or was Phil and John already there, but you got plucked solo.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah. And, you know, it was between me and Lisa Kudrow.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, really?

[Julia Sweeney]

When I got it, I thought, you know, I hope Lisa gets something. Oh, she deserves success like me.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Bless her heart. And I hope she.

[Dana Carvey]

You go.

[David Spade]

I hope one day she makes. Someday she gets on the show, you know, because she. You know what?

[Julia Sweeney]

She deserves it.

[David Spade]

You know what's funny? I'm not saying if there was room for two women, and I'm saying back then, it was probably a lot tougher where they wouldn't even consider that. I know, but you and Lisa would have been such a pluck together.

[Julia Sweeney]

Wonderful. I mean.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

So, I mean, it was. It did. I kind of bought into that culture too. Like, you have three women and seven to 10 guys, and that's how it is.

[David Spade]

Way too many women.

[Dana Carvey]

That's right. Yeah. It was a good ratio. 12 guys and three women. I really enjoyed that.

[David Spade]

In fairness, it was true that there was, you know, talk about not enough for the women. And it's. And it was true, so. And it's very.

[Julia Sweeney]

It.

[Dana Carvey]

It's.

[David Spade]

I think nowadays they're more cognizant of it because there's a lot of great women have come through there, and I think you paved the way.

[Julia Sweeney]

Tina Fey changed everything. I think she revolutionized us now. Yeah.

[David Spade]

And doing update and writing and bringing women in and. Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

And pointing out that there's no reason not to have the women. That if all the sketches are so male focused, that there's only women as weird archetypes in suit sketches here and there. It's like, you're never gonna get the women used. You have to really change your whole point of view. And I don't. I wasn't there, but. And I don't even know Tina Fey, but I. I sense that there was a huge revolution took place. That was a good one.

[David Spade]

You know, it's funny, when Tina was there, that was. It sounds crazy, but that might have been the first time when there's, like, a sketch with all women.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Where people would be like, what?

[Julia Sweeney]

Well, she wrote about that in her book. I mean, not about the sketch, but just about why you couldn't have a whole sketch group that was all women. Or, like, why can't. Why wouldn't you be able to think up a lot of sketches for a lot of women that didn't happen to have a man in it, you know, Like, And. And I was. I had that prejudice myself. Like, I really thought, oh, yeah, you think of something for a guy to do and then you think how you could come in. You know, like, it took a long time for me to see how much the sexism was even in myself.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

And that, that was sort of the way it was. We were all there around the same time. And I remember it was just the way it was thought. Good or bad? It was just the way it was thought.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah. It's amazing how you don't even question certain things. Like, I thought of myself as a liberated, progressive person, and yet I didn't. I thought, oh, yeah, it will always be three women and 10 guys.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, also, they. Sarah Palin came in as a vice presidential candidate. So that was. And then Hillary later. So that gave two political parts. There were, you know, I don't know who you could do back then, really. I mean, Senator Feinstein, she was there.

[David Spade]

Oh, you did Chelsea, did it say that you. That she had that rubbed somebody wrong?

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, Hillary,

[Dana Carvey]

you did Chelsea.

[Julia Sweeney]

Okay.

[David Spade]

Chelsea Clinton.

[Julia Sweeney]

And then Hillary letter to Lauren. Oh, and then people were saying how unattractively I was playing Chelsea and all I did was not wear makeup and put braces on. I was like, if you say that, you're saying I'm unattractive, like, which maybe that's so. But it's like, that's like I wasn't

[David Spade]

trying to play her unattractive with all that prosthetics. You made her look horrible. You're like, I just went, I just washed my face and then I walked in.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, I just didn't wear makeup and put on braces. That was it. And a wig, a long wig, curly wig. But anyway. But I understood what Hillary was saying, especially now that I'm a parent. Like, it's like, yeah, fuck off. You know, I mean, don't play kids. I mean, that was wrong. She was right. That was wrong.

[David Spade]

What about when Farley played Show Apology? Who was the man? Or was it whose kid did Farley play? They played him like such a moron, jumping all over his dad and while he's giving a speech. Do you remember that?

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh, yeah. Was it Phil?

[David Spade]

Was it Giuliani?

[Julia Sweeney]

I can't remember Giuliani.

[David Spade]

Yeah, it was Giuliani's 10 year old boy, Andrew.

[Dana Carvey]

10 year old boy?

[David Spade]

Yeah, yeah. And he would just wear a suit and grab and eats hamburgers and. Yeah, if I was, I would have been furious. Of course, if you had to watch that as your own kid.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

We did a lot of things that we couldn't do now. You know, I was in Lyle Bullop, the effeminate heterosexual.

[Julia Sweeney]

I know, but I can't people mention that to me so often. I mean, people love that. That describes the type of person and behavior that is recognizable, that hadn't been labeled yet. I mean, like, that was. I mean, at least in a pop cult. So I feel like that. And I think that's true. That is true. There are people who are feminine and heterosexual who are men. That's a true thing. I mean, like, when you slow it

[David Spade]

down, it's a little better.

[Julia Sweeney]

I don't see how people could be offended by it.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, what I found out later that that pained me was that I think it was the mixer in the booth. The gentleman at the time was gay. And when that sketch came on, he recused himself.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh, really?

[Dana Carvey]

Someone else worked the lever, so. And I.

[Julia Sweeney]

Does he think that being effeminate mannerisms is pejorative towards a gay person? I mean.

[Dana Carvey]

Right. It goes both ways. You're right.

[Julia Sweeney]

You know, like, I guess I don't. Yeah. I find it hard to understand some of the stuff that people object to. But anyway, I'm with you.

[Dana Carvey]

We're. We're comedians and we're not very offendable. And we want to say the thing you're not supposed to say. It's just instinctual. And do the thing you're not supposed to do. And so we're not normal and then. But that one I couldn't do today. And I did an Asian character, too. We're making our. Making our way to a character called Pat2, which is. Has had a resurgence in notoriety in the last few years. I mean, there's been a lot of talk about you're way ahead of the

[David Spade]

game on that or behind. That's right.

[Julia Sweeney]

I. Yeah. I mean, the thing for me is that I always thought the joke was mostly about the people who were around Pat who were freaking out, who were fro. So freaked out. Which I thought was Christine and I at the beginning because we wrote all those sketches together. Xander, Christine, Zander is. We said at the beginning, the jokes are not on Pat, except that Pat looks weird and drools and is annoying. But it's not because of. People aren't going to laugh at patience for Pat's androgyny. What we're laughing at is the people around Pat. How do we understand it that Pat's androgynous?

[David Spade]

So to me, it makes them frustrated.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah. And so. But that's the subtle comedy thing, you know, that people. Yeah, there's people. Yeah. There's a Lot of people upset by Pat. And the truth is, I wasn't thinking of androgynous people as an SNL audience. You know what I mean? I was doing a character like, we're laughing at this idea. If I thought the audience was filled with androgynous people, I probably would have played it a little differently. You know what I mean? Like, we didn't think of those people as our audience. But now you would. Now you would.

[Dana Carvey]

You would be aware of them. But then to me, the character, forget that it's Pat and no one knows whether it's a man or a woman, is just a funny character. You know, that's what I mean. The way she moved, the way she talked. It was just a funny character.

[David Spade]

Goofy.

[Julia Sweeney]

I guess if I did it again, again, I would make Pat more enigmatic and make it clearer that it was about the other people and not Pat. Almost more Charlie Chaplin esque. Like just people not talking much. Just. Just about everyone else's reactions.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Falling down.

[Julia Sweeney]

No one's asking me to do that, so no Ma would do.

[Dana Carvey]

It's never too late for A. It's PAT2, you know, I think it's time for another one. We do it for 8 million at Warner's.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh, wait, let me tell you the saddest story.

[Dana Carvey]

Okay, now I love it.

[Julia Sweeney]

I was going to New York and I was going to go to SNL and bring my daughter, who hadn't gone. I guess we've gone twice in her life, but this was one of those times. And the Supreme Court had just had a case where they had brought up Pat at the Supreme Court during the case and Alito didn't know who Pat was. And then there were these jokes about it. And Lauren and I had been emailing each other for something else. I think I had to get permission for something. Anyway, we had had this email and either here I was like, oh, isn't that funny that the Supreme Court joked about Pat and who on the Supreme Court knew who Pat was or whatever. And then he said, when you come, when you come to the show next week, bring your Pat outfit with you to New York. Because maybe, you know, I don't know, who knows, you know, maybe we'll do something out of the Supreme Court thing. But then the act, act of the sad fact of me, you know, like at 58, not at really like packing my pad outfit in a suitcase and bringing it a little bit, hoping, hoping that maybe we do a pad sketch. Like it was really. And of course, no one even mentioned it. And the whole, like, I had to bring the fucking Batsuit. And it was so. It was such an offhand comment. And then I took it. I shouldn't have. Oh, God. Every time.

[Dana Carvey]

Was it on a hanger? Did you show up with it on a hanger? Or was it a little.

[Julia Sweeney]

Here's my outfit.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. Yeah. It's a really funny opening.

[David Spade]

Or is it an update piece? And everyone's like, is what?

[Julia Sweeney]

No, no. No one even mentioned it. And then it was like, in front of my husband and daughter, which we all just took. Carry on. It's like, no, I have to check my.

[Dana Carvey]

My Pat.

[Julia Sweeney]

And then. And then it's like, oh, well, I guess I. I really didn't need to. How come.

[Dana Carvey]

How come church lady never got together with Pat? Why was Pat not on church chat? That seems like.

[Julia Sweeney]

I know we should have done that.

[David Spade]

God, I always travel with my Tom Petty hat.

[Dana Carvey]

He did it no matter where. The mutton chops, right?

[David Spade]

Pork chops. Yeah. Little chops on the side. And just, you know, you never know when someone's gonna want it at a birthday party or something.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh, my God.

[David Spade]

So lately I've been trying to be more intentional with my wardrobe, if you know what that means.

[Dana Carvey]

I like that. Yeah.

[David Spade]

Choosing pieces that are comfortable enough for everyday life but still feel put together with not a lot of effort. You know, it's made getting dressed way easier, especially in the mornings when I

[Dana Carvey]

don't want to think.

[David Spade]

Quince has been really my go to for that balance. Their spring staples are exactly what I've been reaching for. Like 100 European linen shorts, very light, and shirts starting around 34 bucks. That's not a lot. They're lightweight, breathable, still look clean and elevated. They're 100% Pima. Cotton tees are unbelievably soft, the kind you immediately notice the first time you wear them. And the pants that have that same easy feel, but you still look polished enough to do pretty much anything, right?

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. You know what stands out to me the most is the value. Everything is typically 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they cut out middlemen and work directly with ethical factories. You know, I recently wore one of their linen shirts on a weekend outing. Looked pretty good. And I kept thinking about how it looks way more expensive than it is. Yeah. Refresh your every day with luxury you'll actually use. Head to Quince.comFly for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U I N C E.comFly for free shipping and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. Quince.comFly. you know those weeks where your schedule is just completely packed and somehow you still need a fully stocked fridge?

[David Spade]

Yep.

[Dana Carvey]

That's where Instacart has really come through for me.

[David Spade]

Yeah, that's every week for me. You know, I've been using delivery through Instacart for my weekly grocery restock. And what I like most is how much control I have over quality. Because. That's right, you don't know this about me. I'm pretty particular. So, yes, whether it's specific brands, fresh produce or ingredients or meals I've already planned, I can be really specific when you're on the app, you know, you can message your shopper if you want certain ripeness and avocados, you can really just get on them and say, swap that out. It all makes a big difference. Yeah. Honestly, convenience is huge.

[Dana Carvey]

Yep, that's right. That's right. It's amazing being able to order on my schedule. I have everything arrive in as fast as get this 30 minutes. Saves me so much time and mental energy. It just takes one more thing off my plate. Instacart brings convenience, quality and ease right to your door. So you can focus on what matters most. Download the Instacart app now and get groceries just how you like.

[David Spade]

When you. When you came on, you. Well, you started. I started four weeks of the end of a season with Schneider and then I think you started with Rock and Farley.

[Julia Sweeney]

That Farley was there. I came and visited the show when he did his Patrick Swayze sketch. I watched that show from the audience, but I wasn't on the show yet.

[David Spade]

So you came in mid season probably.

[Julia Sweeney]

Well, no, it was just. I think it was the next episode.

[David Spade]

Oh, okay.

[Julia Sweeney]

Maybe I knew I was going to start, but I wasn't in that episode.

[David Spade]

Yeah, I came the week before to look at a show. They said, why don't you come early? And I think that may be what they do to us. But. And you watch it and going, oh my God, I'm going to be part of this shit. It's moving so fast. I have no idea what's going on.

[Dana Carvey]

I think it's scary watching a practice showing, projecting yourself out there a week later. How will I be out there?

[Julia Sweeney]

But you guys are. Because you guys. See, to me it wasn't. But it wasn't scary to me. But that's not saying that it shouldn't have been scary, but I think because of doing sketches at the Groundlings it was just like I was in so many sketches, and you had to learn. It was very similar to being at the ground.

[David Spade]

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. That's right. That's different for me and Dana because we.

[Julia Sweeney]

So it didn't seem scary. I just. I actually had the opposite. Like, I thought as I watched it, I thought, oh, I can do this. I can do this.

[David Spade]

Oh, good. Yeah. Wow. So you come in and you see all of us. So Phil, you knew, and you have great admiration for Phil. And you guys were my teacher at teacher.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

God, who's better to teach? He's so good.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh, my God. No. He changed my life with his teaching. He was such a. He could really. Not very many comedians can explain why they're funny and how they do it, and he could.

[David Spade]

You know, funny thing about Phil seeing around the office is how Dana knows him way better, but how unassuming and how egoless. And he's always thinking about other things at work when I'm only thinking about SNL because I'm so. But he's so good. He would be like, hey, I might go fishing this weekend. Or, hey. And then you think, how are you thinking of one other thing? This is driving me mental to try to. But he's just.

[Julia Sweeney]

I just remember how organized he was. He had his folder, all the sketches, all the lines. He really made sure he knew his lines.

[David Spade]

Oh, he's so good. Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

He took it seriously.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. And then he was. He was so disciplined around it. And then he would have a Popular Mechanics or some kind of motorboat. Today magazine schematics of an Evin route. And then he'd put it down, and then he'd go in a rehearsal scene, nail it perfect. Go back out.

[David Spade]

I think he had that red hard cover that says Saturday Live in the corner in that circle. And then it was like a red hard notebook. And you'd open it up, three ring binder. And you put.

[Julia Sweeney]

That's right. Yeah.

[David Spade]

I'd put my two pages of script for that week in there and open it up. My update.

[Dana Carvey]

It's a consistent theme with David. He had a rough time.

[David Spade]

I keep saying it. And then. So you got along pretty much like you knew. What were your first. First thoughts of, like an atom or something?

[Julia Sweeney]

What's my first thoughts about what about,

[David Spade]

like, Sandler or Farley?

[Julia Sweeney]

Sandler came a little later, I think.

[David Spade]

Oh, right.

[Dana Carvey]

Maybe a year later, I think.

[Julia Sweeney]

He wasn't there right away.

[Dana Carvey]

Ellen Cleghorn was with you.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Chiffon Fallon.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah. I love Siobhan.

[Dana Carvey]

Melanie Hutzel and Beth. Right. Beth for a season.

[David Spade]

Beth Cahill.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, those were kind of your primary.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, I didn't really know Beth very well. She was just there for one year. But, yeah, I mean, it was exciting. I mean, of course, it was the most exciting thing. You're at the center of the universe, and you're at the top of what you would want to be for your, you know, your skill set. I mean, like, it's the best. I mean, it was the greatest, most thrilling thing, I would say it was completely great till the last year.

[Dana Carvey]

And at first, what happened the last year?

[Julia Sweeney]

Well, for one thing, the sketches changed. They were more BRO Sketches.

[Dana Carvey]

Who would be doing that?

[Julia Sweeney]

There was no place for me in those sketches. I mean, like, there was no. And I wasn't getting my own stuff on, and no one was casting me. And Christine had left. That was the big thing. So we had written together every week, and she'd gone to work on third Rock from the sun with Bonnie and Terri.

[Dana Carvey]

Christine Zander, great writer.

[Julia Sweeney]

I just was lost without her, frankly. And I felt like the sketches were more. I remember something. I mean, this might. It was kind of terrible. There was some sketch where they had to have a beautiful woman, and I was listening to everyone talk about how none of the women who were on

[Dana Carvey]

the show could be a beautiful woman,

[Julia Sweeney]

and they had to bring in a model because there was literally no one there that even with makeup and everything, who could pass as sexual, Like. And so. And then I was like, wow, I'm.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Sweeney]

Really have. I mean, not that I would have necessarily been that choice anyway, but it's like, that point of view. There just was no room for me now, looking back, I think I should have pushed harder of my own comedy, and I should have. You know, shoulda, woulda, coulda. But everybody does.

[David Spade]

But, well, Xander and the Turners, who have people listening, Bonnie and Terry Turner were great writers together. Christine Zander was wonderful. So having them in your corner, or at least a piece of it or something, really takes a chunk away, and you need every piece to keep going. And if you have a little bit slipping.

[Julia Sweeney]

And I knew it would be harder, but I didn't know it would be devastating. I didn't know that it would be.

[David Spade]

The bottom would drop out.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, the bottom really seemed to drop out. And so for the first time, there were sketches. I. I have shows. I wasn't even in it, you know, like. And, yeah, that was hard. It was really hard. I could hardly wait to leave at the end of that year. But up until then, though, it was fantastic. I mean, it really was very exciting.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, it seemed like you. I was there three. Three years with you, and it just seemed like you were really, really active in the show.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, that was a big part. Was my youthful enthusiasm. And also Christine.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, Christine, who wrote the reconciliation sketch. It was such a. Oh, me.

[Julia Sweeney]

That actually I had written that sketch. Well, Christine and I wrote it together, but I had had the idea and done a kind of early form of that sketch.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you want to describe what it. What it was?

[Julia Sweeney]

Well, it was. Now I'm thinking, is that really true?

[Dana Carvey]

Well, it's the one with Alec Baldwin plays the handsome priest.

[Julia Sweeney]

It was. Alec Baldwin came on and he's so handsome. And, you know, he's just. He's like. He's one of those guys who's handsome and funny as, you know, blah, blah, blah.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes.

[Julia Sweeney]

And I was telling Christine that in my Catholic high school, they had changed confession and they now called it reconciliation. And you looked at the priest in a room instead of going to a confessional. And that at our high school, I went to an all girls Catholic high school. And the priest was Father Boley. And he was so handsome that people would get so distracted telling them their sins. That's fine. They couldn't. Like, he was so handsome.

[David Spade]

Father Baldwin.

[Julia Sweeney]

And then I would go in and start flirting with the priest. And then it was creepy and everything. And that I would start making up sins just to stay in the confessional, you know, like, just so we could keep this conversation going.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

And so we wrote that with. And Alec came in and wrote it with us. I mean, at least parts of it with us. And God, that was really fun. It was so much fun.

[Dana Carvey]

It was very, very funny. He was perfect casting. And then you were. You played it beautifully. I mean, it just.

[Julia Sweeney]

And then the best thing about that, we had written a line at the end where. Because I'm like, I. I cheated on my diet. And he's like, well, that's not really a sin. And I'm like, oh. And then he goes, but I know. I know what it's like to, you know, try to be on a diet. What did you cheat with? And I go, I ate a whole box of Oreos. And he says, oh, do you like to unscrew it and eat out the creamy center or something like that.

[Dana Carvey]

There you go.

[Julia Sweeney]

And then the standards and practice is like, you can't say, eat out the creamy center. We suggest you say, lick out the creamy center.

[Dana Carvey]

They always get it more Pornographic. It's so funny every time.

[David Spade]

Classic.

[Julia Sweeney]

Okay.

[Dana Carvey]

Really? Wow, good.

[David Spade]

Can you say go down on the Oreo? I think that would be better.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, exactly. I haven't. I. This is just a Catholic 22nd story. My wife and I were married in a Catholic church. The priest, we went to dinner with him, this and that. They usually have a few pops, you know what I mean? And my wife drinks, very pretty, 23 at the time. Gets up, goes to the bathroom with her tight jeans. He looks and says, if you don't marry her, I will. That was. That was the priest. Good night. That's all I got. David.

[David Spade]

Julia, were you there when Alec. I'm just looking at your thing where it says you're a. You brought up Alec. And then. Yeah, it says she demonstrated an early talent for mimicry. Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

What is that? Is that like on IMDb or something?

[Dana Carvey]

Awesome. I love that, by the way.

[Julia Sweeney]

I was not good at mimicry, and people were often, you know, assigning me famous people to play. And I feel like I really was like, C, C minus at that.

[David Spade]

Like, it feels like more special skills at the bottom. Mimicry. I heard you're good at mimicry.

[Dana Carvey]

And you're like, you're a M mimic in third grade.

[David Spade]

Do you remember Dana? I don't think Julie was there, but Alex first show was my, like, third one, and he did a sketch called the Mimic. Unless he did it later.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh, I think he had done it when he came. He had already done that.

[David Spade]

It's the stupidest sketch. And he was so funny. He goes, the Mimic. And he'd pick up the phone and go, hello?

[Dana Carvey]

He goes, he can do anything.

[David Spade]

And then he was, like, kind of

[Dana Carvey]

bad at all of them.

[David Spade]

And because he actually is good at all these accents and stuff, but they just. And he dressed all black.

[Dana Carvey]

The mimic. Well, the classic was Frank Gorshwin. He was a brilliant impressionist on Ed Sullivan in the 60s. And he would do the classic turn, turn away from the camera and kind of pluck his hair up and then come back, which is like, look at me now. You know, I like that.

[David Spade]

I like that kind of impression.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, we can do voices.

[Julia Sweeney]

So, Dina, do you. You live in LA now? Not in Mill Valley anymore.

[Dana Carvey]

I was just in Mill Valley. The actual address is. No. Yeah, I was just there. We have the 1912 haunted house up there. And I've experienced. I don't know if I believe it, but Poltergeist up there.

[David Spade]

What?

[Dana Carvey]

And I told Dan Aykroyd about it, and he says, I got to get someone in there to check it out. It's in one particular bedroom. And at night I would hear white noise because my son had moved out of that bedroom and moved in with his brother because he felt. And I would hear white noise because there was a portable radio there. So I would walk in and then the white noise would stop, all that. And it happened, you know, a couple times a year. And I saw some things. Anyway, I'm in la.

[Julia Sweeney]

I want to know the top paranormal debunker in the United States, if you're interested.

[Dana Carvey]

I don't necessarily believe in it. I've had the nightmare where you feel a pressure on your chest even though you're in a waking dream state. And that made me leave the San Ysidro Hotel one night with my wife at three in the morning. I woke her up and said, we have to go now. Because I felt the pressure on my chest when I'm sleeping and bouncing up and down on me. And then I went and used the bathroom, thought, okay, that's. I was dreaming. Then I laid back down and I felt like I was awake as I am right now. And then massive pressure that felt angry pushing down on me. And I was just couldn't move. And then it raised me.

[Julia Sweeney]

But now, didn't you have heart issues? Like, isn't that sound like physical explanation for that?

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. Seven stints and a botched bypass 25 years ago. Look at me now.

[David Spade]

Those are my issues.

[Dana Carvey]

Let me charge.

[Julia Sweeney]

But I mean there's. I mean, there's always a natural explanation.

[David Spade]

By the way, Julia, I know a paranormal bunker. They should meet your debunker, Dana. I get scared at my house because I just moved. And I don't want to hear that story because I hear like clicking in the house settling in quotes. It's like. And Julia will say it's the house settling, which I say because I can't. In the middle of the night when it's dead silent. You're so scared. You're like, I have to think of a reason what's going on. Because it's always scary. But I haven't felt pressure or anything like that. I would fucking freak out.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh, I read it since I became a person who doesn't believe in supernatural things except us.

[David Spade]

Yeah,

[Julia Sweeney]

I never get scared. I mean, I get scared when I think there's a reasonable chance that something's truly wrong. But that kind of stuff doesn't even. I just think there's some things making the sound.

[Dana Carvey]

I'm not. I'm not frightened of it. At all, because I never got hurt. It just flipped me out the first time. But I don't know if I said this, but I. Mike Myers, who kind of read the encyclopedia as a 5 year old. You know, nightmare is a. From the word. You know, it's some medieval Latin prefix or for a mare. And I. E. A horse feels like it's laying on top you, and it's just a waking dream state. I read about it in the New York Times. The brain disconnects. David, you're fine.

[David Spade]

That scared me. And I've never heard about the horse part, but I like it. Julia, you were in Coneheads.

[Julia Sweeney]

No.

[David Spade]

You were in Coneheads, weren't you? That was sort of a sign, wasn't it? Or no, you weren't.

[Julia Sweeney]

I remember thinking, I'm playing the principal and Chris Farley's playing a high school student, and we're only like four years apart in age. That tells you a lot about. Yeah, that was fun. I don't remember that much about it.

[David Spade]

I was in it, too. Believe me, we were all in it. I think Lauren just said, david, you'll be reporting to Coneheads. I was like, oh, yes.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, I think it was something like. It was like you just were told that you were going, but, David, do you know what I remember is that sketch you wrote. Not necessarily for me, but I got to be the main comedy driver of it. I always bring that up in the sketch. Remember the sketch where I go on the date and I just keep ordering expensive food? And then I start talking about how I'm not gonna put out. He's trying to push me towards the more cheap, the cheaper food. Do you remember that?

[David Spade]

I don't. That's hilarious.

[Dana Carvey]

No.

[Julia Sweeney]

And you came to me and said, I have this idea for you. I'm gonna write the sketch. And it was. I'm forgetting who the guy was, but it was some handsome guy and I'm just. And the whole thing was like, me, like, oh, I'm so happy to be on the stage. Oh, lobster and the steak. That's what I'm gonna get. And then it's like, I just want to tell you that I don't ever have sex with anyone. And then it kind of goes. I mean, it wasn't that obvious, but it was really well written. And when people say those guys at snl, they were so, you know, together and not, you know, really into the women that much, I say, david Spade wrote a sketch for me. That was one of the best things I ever did.

[David Spade]

That's so great. I love that.

[Dana Carvey]

And you don't.

[Julia Sweeney]

He wasn't even in it. He just wrote it, you know, like.

[David Spade]

I can't believe.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

It was a very loving thing to do. I don't know how much it meant about me, but I took it as a very.

[Dana Carvey]

Well, you probably performed it great. Cause you.

[David Spade]

Right. I know.

[Dana Carvey]

You were good. That's what you do.

[David Spade]

And it's fun to have a sketch. And you probably had the host in there. But when you get the funny parts. Cause it's really hard to.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah. I mean. Cause usually you're not getting to be the driver of the comedy. And you real. And that this character was. I mean, it was really. The host was kind of just reacting to me. And you had just written it. And it was just the most wonderful gift. I mean, it was just an incredible thing. And I bring that up at least once a month. I'm telling people that. And David's great.

[Dana Carvey]

And David doesn't remember.

[David Spade]

I said that's the most baffling part. The sketches I wrote. I didn't write that many. That's crazy.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah.

[David Spade]

Well, thank you. And I'm glad you did it. And I'm glad you remember it and say it. That's great. I don't want to talk about me forever, but I like that.

[Dana Carvey]

Do you want to talk about the. Not many people. This will go full circle. Got a movie out of a character like. And you did. There was no church lady movie. There was a Stuart Smalley movie. There was a Pat movie in the 90s with anybody else of a character. I think those were the two. Those two should have been in the movie together. They would have been great.

[Julia Sweeney]

I know it. That was.

[Dana Carvey]

But is that a bittersweet memory or is it a good memory?

[Julia Sweeney]

Bittersweet. I had such a good time making it. We didn't know what we were doing. I didn't do it with Lorne. I didn't understand the politics. He wanted to do it, but then.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, didn't he own it? Didn't he own the character?

[Julia Sweeney]

No. I was one of the people. When I came in, my lawyer got me to own Pat.

[Dana Carvey]

I don't know how.

[Julia Sweeney]

It doesn't even matter. I mean.

[Dana Carvey]

Got it. So you owned it and did it outside the system anyway.

[Julia Sweeney]

So I could have. Because I had done that character at the Groundlings. I don't know why. Anyway, so he did. So it was my choice. And I think I made a dumb choice not to have Lauren be the producer of it because all kinds of awful things happened aside from the fact that we didn't write a good script. I mean, like, you know, so I don't know. It was really fun to do it, and it was really fun to make it. Oh, my God, it was so much fun, and I learned so much. And then it was really a big bomb. And. And. But I always felt grateful for it. And I wrote to Eisner afterwards and said, how I know I made it. I know I just wasted $8 million of your money, really, but I learned so much and had a great time. And I know that shouldn't compensate for it because that's a lot of money, but I just want to say everything about it was really great. And thank you. I'll never forget that, obviously. And then he sent that letter around Disney, like, here's somebody who's grateful for failing.

[David Spade]

Yeah. You know, Julia, I did that with a movie once, and I think that's so cool you did that. I felt so bad after a movie, I called the guy and said, I appreciate you doing it. I'm just so sorry I didn't do what you wanted kind of thing. And I don't think you wrote me back. But I do think for myself, I felt like.

[Julia Sweeney]

I mean, you realize, like, now, of course, everything's so different now, but I. I don't know how I would have done it differently. And maybe I wasn't really up to the task of turning that into something successful, but it wasn't. And, you know. Yeah, but I got the chance. I mean, I got the chance, but.

[David Spade]

Julie, is it hard to take a sketch? I'm sorry, David.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, no, no.

[David Spade]

Take a sketch.

[Dana Carvey]

Difficult.

[David Spade]

And you've done a sketch and you feel like a lot of the good jokes is the reason the sketch is doing well. And then you're not really starting from scratch, but to fill the whole movie.

[Julia Sweeney]

No, I think it is. I mean, actually, it wasn't until late. I didn't watch all the Charlie Chaplin movies till much later in my life. And when I watched them, I realized, not that Pat is any. The character of Pat is anything like the Charlie Chaplin character, but that the way he was enigmatic and let everyone else be reacting to him while he was doing physical things would have been the way to. I think it could have succeeded, but I didn't know enough to know I

[Dana Carvey]

was in some very shitty movies. But I never felt like I was driving the boat. But I do think that funny with the sound off, like, if the sound broke on a Pat movie, it would be nice to think it could still work. But that to solve that dilemma, especially, you know, Stuart Smaller. These are quirky characters. They're not. Yeah, I think Wayne and Garth just followed Bill and Ted and they're like, dudes, you know, party on. They're very accessible. And to make Pat, yeah, it could be a challenge because such an eccentric character, but visually, well, it's funny.

[David Spade]

It's sort of like more for adults. And Wayne and Garth could be for adults or kids. You know, they can get into it too, because it's like very.

[Julia Sweeney]

But, you know, Stuart Smalley, I watched, I did, when I lived in Chicago for 10 years and I was helping to teach at the Harold Ramis Film School. They have this film program that I was teaching. I was really not teaching it was a friend of mine teaching it. But I kind of helped for one semester. And we were watching some Harold Ramis movies and he directed Stuart Smalley. And so we watched it and you know what? It. I liked it. I thought it was a successful film. I, you know, I mean, it was. It's. It's a really quirky movie, but I was really unlike Pat. When I watched the Pat movie, I was like, yeah, this doesn't work. I mean, this really didn't work. But Stuart Smalley, I thought it works.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. I mean, Harold Ramis is so talented. I think talking to Al Franken, I think he's going on Fallon soon. And I told him he should. He should do Stuart Smalley, even for the young audience, and hold Jimmy's hand, make it all about Jimmy, you know, good enough, strong enough, you know, that kind of thing. So.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh, my God, you know, I almost canceled myself, except that no one cares if I'm canceled because after Al Franken's debacle and demise from the Senate, I was so angry and upset. I was so angry I couldn't sleep for a month. I was so angry. And then I wrote a one person show about it and did it for like five Saturdays at the Groundling Small Theater until people came up and said, julia, first of all, this isn't even funny in any way. It was just me. All I did, I went through all the allegations, allegation number four, you know, like, I was crazed with anger at how the MeToo movement had been twisted up in the worst possible way to go after this great guy, in my opinion. And complete. I was so angry, you guys. And then I had somebody come and say, you know, you'll never work again if you open this show. Because it's really just. Even though I'm a me too supporter but when it came to Al Franken, I just could see, see how that all that shit went down and it was bullshit and it was. And then people weren't talking to me. And then I finally just dropped it because I couldn't make it entertaining enough. It really was a show of me for 90 minutes talking about each allegation against Al Franken and why am I bulletin board and this and why and why and why. And I had to stop it. I think that's when I really had got went over on the other side of the culture because I felt like, okay, this, I'm so angry about this, it's so unfair. And yet the culture is, you know, I'm not. I can't influence the culture and I'm just going to wreck my own career and health over it. So I kind of just dropped it. And then I also realized I didn't really have the standing for anyone to care about it. You know what I thought about it. So I couldn't really even help him. And then later I finally saw Al Franken and then I realized he didn't really care if I was doing that either. I was like, I've just been doing a one person show about you. And he's like, oh, oh, thanks.

[Dana Carvey]

You don't have to. It's kind of scary because anybody. If someone from high school said I looked at him wrong in 1973 or something.

[Julia Sweeney]

Exactly.

[Dana Carvey]

And it's like, whoa. I mean, you know, there's the other. The big players, we don't have to name them. Where it's pretty obvious.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dana Carvey]

A lot of people that maybe behaved a little boorishly or something, but to be canceled for life is just a bit much for.

[Julia Sweeney]

No, it was really. That was really. Anyway, I didn't mean to take us into sad territory, but that was really, really, really just fucking got my goat. I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. And I wanted. I just couldn't. I couldn't think of anything else. And it took a long time to just, just accept that's how life goes in an unfair way sometimes for some people. And that's how it's always been. I mean, like, not for everyone, obviously not for everyone. But sometimes you're at the wrong place at the wrong time. I kept thinking it's almost like there was a huge pile up on the road and Al Franken was driving on the outside of the road and his fender caught it and he just caught up in it, you know, like one

[Dana Carvey]

thing about Al, you can rest assured. He's very resilient, obviously. And a tough time.

[Julia Sweeney]

Oh yeah, yeah. No, no. When I saw him, he's already had a million ideas.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, yeah.

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[David Spade]

All right, I have a. I have a gear change question for Julia.

[Julia Sweeney]

You have a what?

[Dana Carvey]

A gear change. Shift gear.

[Julia Sweeney]

Okay. Yes, I'm sorry.

[David Spade]

No, I don't care.

[Dana Carvey]

We love all. We love all of it.

[David Spade]

We love all questions I just put before I got off, I wanted to ask you if you I read that you felt badly that you might have cracked up during motivational speaker. And I never thought of that of you. I never thought anything negative about that.

[Julia Sweeney]

I thought, I do have a problem controlling laughing during sketches.

[David Spade]

I didn't ever think that of you. I thought I fucked that sketch up. Me and Christina ruined it. But we were just laughing, which didn't really ruin it. It was just. It was so rare to happen. Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

That we were. It was really just seeing the funniest thing, and you knew that it was gonna live forever, and you're in the middle of it, and you have the best seat in the house. And I can't stop laughing.

[Dana Carvey]

Like I farley in that character. I said it on another podcast. I think that's the most. I don't know, most potent thing somebody's ever done. Maybe just the way he squatted and got ready for his next line. It's very crisp moves. They were just. It was like. It was like chaplain s. He's just gonna get squatted, get set with his body before he. Yeah, I, I. That might have broke me if I was in.

[David Spade]

I think, yeah, Phil might be the only one that didn't laugh.

[Julia Sweeney]

I know. Phil was so good. He could really. I couldn't control it. I couldn't control myself.

[David Spade]

We all started to break, and that's the problem is that we. And back then, I think they do it more now. They crack up a lot. But it was definitely a no, no, no.

[Julia Sweeney]

It was terrible to do that. You were being like, yeah, Burnett show now.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. We didn't have as much fun as we could have had, you know, because I was just. Thought you'd get fired. I mean, when Phil finally broke. Phil finally broke doing Tonto, Tarzan, and Frankenstein. And he's Frankenstein. He crashes through the thing or whatever. And then that first time Phil broke, Phil was done fire bad. And then he was. I was toast. And I thought, wow, this is amazing. Is he gonna be in trouble? There's always fear on that.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, there was. I wonder what it's like now, because I was thinking, you know, Lauren is so much older now than the people who are performing than he was from our age, you know, like, for us, he was kind of an older guy, but now he' a much, much older guy.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah. 76. And then a new cast member is, like, 22, and they're chatting about comedy.

[Julia Sweeney]

That's a whole different feeling. I mean.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

I wonder what it's like. I don't know.

[David Spade]

The meetings are like, who's your favorite rappers? Rap singers.

[Dana Carvey]

Right. Is Dr. Dre really a doctor?

[David Spade]

Does anyone know?

[Dana Carvey]

Please? I think they always seem to find a way that show to find great people. You know, Christine, you know, it.

[Julia Sweeney]

You know, it's an incredible success that I didn't. I didn't think. I thought, oh, it'll go for a few more years. But you really have to hand it to him. I mean, like, it's really incredible.

[Dana Carvey]

He is the show, and he never panicked because there were so many years of, like, we gotta do it taped, or we gotta change the name and change the band. And he knew he had an incredible brand, and he just stuck to it. And like I. Steve Higgins said, Lauren wrote the constitution of the house. And then let's. It's a. It's liquid form. It can be whatever it becomes. Because now, going full circle with women, they play a lot of men on the show, Right? You probably would have done George Bush or Ross Perot.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yes. Well, the reason I played Pat at first is I was trying to play a man, but I didn't feel like it was very convincing. And so I thought, oh, I'll just make a joke that you don't know if it's a man or a woman to kind of COVID for my lack of acting ability. But now I probably wouldn't think that. I'd think I could just play a man if I wanted.

[Dana Carvey]

Julia, can we just get a. Because we need something to trend. You know, we're. We're behind smart lists, but we're getting close. Inside your mind. Have you ever thought to yourself, was Patrick a man or a woman? Just internally to yourself. Do you know the secret?

[Julia Sweeney]

I'm sorry, There is no secret.

[Dana Carvey]

There is no secret. You.

[Julia Sweeney]

You.

[Dana Carvey]

I wish I could.

[Julia Sweeney]

So you had a little sound bite. You could. Yeah, but I. I know I'd be

[Dana Carvey]

lying, making fun of sound bites. Here's a sound bite. Church lady wasn't religious. No, I don't.

[Julia Sweeney]

We could have done a Church lady becomes an atheist. That would have been funny.

[Dana Carvey]

Oh, I do think church lady with Pat, that would have been perfect, you

[Julia Sweeney]

know, because you know what I think is that they just live together and you just don't ask questions about that relationship.

[David Spade]

They moved in together, you think?

[Julia Sweeney]

I just think it'd be funny if they just, like, you find out that they've lived together for 35 years in separate rooms, you know, but it's just curious.

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Church lady just says we. Anyway, that would be a thing. We like to get dressed, don't we, in our clothes? Well, we have our special clothes. On that fit us in a certain way. So we can't tell quite what we are under that way.

[David Spade]

Anyways, Dana, do you have anything else for the lovely Julia Sweeney to ask her?

[Julia Sweeney]

So you guys are both mainly living in LA now?

[Dana Carvey]

I'm living in la. Are you?

[Julia Sweeney]

Yes, I moved back from Chicago. Okay. So I bought a House in 1992 that I thought was going to be a starter house, but it's an ender house

[Dana Carvey]

and prices have gotten pricey.

[Julia Sweeney]

No. Because I couldn't afford to live in this neighborhood. There's no way.

[David Spade]

No chance.

[Julia Sweeney]

So now we're. My husband. I just married about 15 years ago and my husband and I. 15 years.

[Dana Carvey]

Yep.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah, he's a good guy. Go ahead.

[Julia Sweeney]

And he. We're remodeling that house. It's a small house, but it's perfect for two retired people. And so we're remodeling it and we're living now next door while it's being remodeled. But it's supposed to be done in about a year.

[David Spade]

It's supposed to be done in ten and a half years.

[Dana Carvey]

So are you.

[David Spade]

Yeah, it takes a while.

[Julia Sweeney]

So when it's done I want to have you guys over.

[David Spade]

That's more like it.

[Julia Sweeney]

It'll be really pretty and we can sit in the backyard. And I'm a good cook.

[Dana Carvey]

I would love it. Will you invite us? Should I. Do you have my email or Greg will give it to you?

[Julia Sweeney]

No, Greg, you'll give me both. Their email?

[David Spade]

Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

I think I saw you, David, at somebody's. Who was it? Some. A party anyway.

[Dana Carvey]

David at a party?

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[David Spade]

Oh, Dana. Those are the good old days. But I still go out if it's someone's dinner or some small thing like that. Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah, that's what I used to have big parties all the time. I used to have a Sunday night party that was huge. Every Sunday. I think I remember young.

[Dana Carvey]

Yeah.

[Julia Sweeney]

But now I like like 4 to 8. Small. The right people. Nice food. Early.

[Dana Carvey]

Early. And early is the key. I like to eat.

[Julia Sweeney]

I eat. I like to eat at 4 or 5.

[Dana Carvey]

I eat at 5. And so I would have an adult beverage.

[Julia Sweeney]

We're on the same page.

[David Spade]

Yes.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes. Early. Fun. Maybe Sunday, four to eight. Boom. Get in, get out.

[Julia Sweeney]

Yeah. Maybe four to seven.

[Dana Carvey]

And you're an atheist, so you won't care. It's a holy day. Sorry. I am too. No, I'm an agnostic. I'm pretty sure I'm not an atheist. I don't know whatever joke to come

[David Spade]

Julia, send us a mass email and, yeah, get Dana and I on Julia

[Dana Carvey]

Sweeney, one of the all time great cast members of Saturday Night Live.

[Julia Sweeney]

Thanks for having me. It's really nice to see you guys.

[Dana Carvey]

And when your house is done, we will, we will see you. And if we don't see you, then we'll see you at the 50th. And my hair is going to even be more weird.

[Julia Sweeney]

I guess it's pretty close to that now, right?

[David Spade]

Oh, yeah.

[Dana Carvey]

20, 25.

[David Spade]

Get the pat outfit back in the

[Dana Carvey]

suitcase, you little things done right as a right.

[Julia Sweeney]

Before I go, the last one, I really cared about being there and it was really important for me, my identity, that I was on snl. I'm in such a different place now. I don't even know if I go because I just feel like, yeah, okay,

[David Spade]

I want to fly.

[Dana Carvey]

You just. Yeah, I know. You can. It's, it's, it's really, it's really about Lauren, you know, kind of.

[Julia Sweeney]

Well, no, I mean, it is fun, but you don't. It's not like you can really talk to people. I mean, like, you just kind of be in this.

[Dana Carvey]

No, you're going, hey, there's, there's, there's Bill Hader or there's, there's Melanie Hutzel. Yeah, I know. It's everywhere, but nowhere. I like a small party, six to eight people.

[Julia Sweeney]

I think instead, I'll just, I'll have it after you guys go. I'll have my dinner party and we'll

[Dana Carvey]

tell you all the juice.

[David Spade]

Yes, yes, juice it up, Julia Sweeney.

[Julia Sweeney]

Okay, honey, I'll get your emails.

[Dana Carvey]

Yes, get our emails. We love to keep in touch and so great to see you. So good to see you. Fun part of this podcast.

[David Spade]

Hey, guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app, Give us review 5 star rating and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend. Friend.

[Dana Carvey]

If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.

[David Spade]

Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey and executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung, Kaiser and Leah Reese, Dennis of Odyssey.

[Dana Carvey]

Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman and the show is produced and edited by

[David Spade]

Phil Sweet tech booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

[Dana Carvey]

Special thanks to Patrick folks, Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kirk Courtney and Lauren Vieira.

[David Spade]

Reach out with us. Any questions be asked and answered on the show. You can email [e-mail] that's a U-A C-Y dot com.