Being Wise With Your Money During a Crisis (Part 1 of 2)

Summary

Episode Summary: Being Wise With Your Money During a Crisis (Part 1 of 2)

Podcast: Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Guests: Michelle Singletary (Financial Expert, Author), Jim Daly (Host), John Fuller (Co-host)
Air Date: April 8, 2026

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Overview

This episode focuses on how Christian families can wisely manage their finances, especially during times of economic crisis and uncertainty. Financial columnist Michelle Singletary shares practical, faith-driven strategies for budgeting, prioritizing spending, building savings, and navigating financial anxiety—with an emphasis on discipline, stewardship, and generosity. Drawing from her personal background and her book What to Do With Your Money When Crisis Hits: A Survival Guide, Michelle offers both encouragement and concrete steps for families experiencing financial stress.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Emotional Side of Financial Stress

• Faith and Fear: Both hosts and Michelle discuss how financial anxiety is heightened by current events and economic issues such as inflation and rising costs. They emphasize the balance between faith and action.
  • “Scripture also talks to us that faith without works is dead. So you gotta look at both parts.” (Michelle Singletary, 03:20)
• Preparation in Good Times: People often neglect savings or prudent choices when times are good, leaving them unprepared for crisis.

Biblical Wisdom & Generosity

• The Story of Joseph: Both Jim and Michelle reflect on the Old Testament story as a lesson in saving and providing for others, not only oneself.
  • “That story is all about when times are good, you save an abundance, not just for yourself… your savings should be for your family and to help others.” (Michelle Singletary, 05:15)
• Tithing as Discipline: Michelle advocates prioritizing giving, even in tough times, to instill financial discipline and align with biblical teaching.
  • “I think the whole concept of tithing was God's way to demand discipline in your finances… if you only have 90 [percent], you're starting to figure out, what can I cut out?” (Michelle Singletary, 18:10)

Handling Financial Crisis: First Steps

• Acknowledge, Don’t Panic: Emotional reactions (like worry or panic) are normal but shouldn’t dictate financial decisions.
  • “I don't say, don't panic, because that's just not where people live. So I say… feel what you feel, because you feel.” (Michelle Singletary, 07:03)
• No Shame: Financial hardship can happen regardless of intelligence or background; it's not a matter for blame or shame.

Personal Story: Big Mama’s Example

• Michelle shares her upbringing under her “Big Mama,” who raised Michelle and her siblings against all odds, modeling frugality, responsibility, and contentment.
  • “My grandmother never apologized for what she couldn’t get us… This is all I can give you, and you need to be satisfied with that.” (Michelle Singletary, 11:00)
• Teaching Children: Open conversations and modeling financial boundaries help children appreciate sacrifices later in life.

Credit Cards & Debt: Tools and Traps

• Culture of Borrowing: Americans are encouraged to live beyond their means with easy credit for non-essential purchases.
  • “We have taught Americans to live the American dream on borrowed money. Don’t wait to save, just get it now.” (Michelle Singletary, 13:43)
• Responsible Card Use: Only use credit cards if paying them off in full every month. Avoid using credit to elevate lifestyle.
  • “If you can’t pay that bill off the next month in full, then you shouldn’t be using that credit card.” (Michelle Singletary, 14:50)
• Ease of Spending: Technology makes spending too easy, reducing the 'pause' before a purchase. Consider using cash or prepaid cards to stay mindful.

Budgeting: Needs vs Wants

• Necessities First: Always first pay for housing, utilities, groceries, and other essentials. Re-evaluate wants—such as phones or vacations—especially during financial stress.
• Be Willing to Cut: Sometimes a lean period or skipped vacation is necessary to build an emergency fund or avoid debt.

Discipline and Practical Strategies

• Budget Discipline: It’s not about being perfect, but making good decisions consistently.
  • “You don’t have to be perfect, but you need to be in the good space.” (Jim Daly, 21:04)
• Triage Method: Treat your finances like a hospital triage:
  1. Immediate essentials (housing, food)
  2. Emergency fund
  3. Savings for future needs and daily expenses
  • “You have to… what needs to be taken care of right away. Emergency fund… savings for different things… daily expenses… and long term things like retirement.” (Michelle Singletary, 21:22)

Debt Payoff: Psychology Over Math

• Smallest-First Method (Snowball): Focus on paying off the smallest debt first for quick wins, rather than highest interest rate. This increases motivation.
  • “When people get those quick wins, they become more energized to get rid of the debt and they actually get rid of it sooner… it’s more psychological because the money issue… is about management, a mental issue.” (Michelle Singletary, 22:27)

Living Within Means: Freedom & Vocation

• Freedom From Debt: Allows people, including Michelle’s own children, to pursue vocations that are meaningful but not high-paying.
  • “If we teach people to handle money well, they… can live in whatever God has gifted them to be as a career.” (Michelle Singletary, 24:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Living with Discipline:
  “It has nothing to do with your intelligence level… Sometimes you’re overconfident. Sometimes the men are a little overconfident.”
  — Michelle Singletary [08:02]
• On Saying No to Kids:
  “Do you have fast food money? You know, do you have a job?.. When they would ask for things, we’d go, well, college fund.”
  — Michelle Singletary [12:11]
• On Giving as a Priority:
  “The first thing first is first is giving. It must be at the top. Now it’s interesting when you tell that to non Christians, they go, well, that doesn’t make any sense. If you’re in debt… But I think the whole concept of tithing was God’s way to demand discipline in your finances.”
  — Michelle Singletary [18:10]

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Key Timestamps

• 03:20 – Using faith and practical steps to address financial fears.
• 05:09 – Joseph’s biblical example of saving for famine; saving for others.
• 07:03 – Normalizing worry and focusing on response rather than panic.
• 10:18 – Michelle’s “Big Mama” story: family sacrifice and financial management.
• 13:43 – Discussion of the American culture of credit and debt.
• 14:50 – Guideline for responsible credit card use.
• 18:10 – Tithing and discipline in budgeting.
• 21:22 – Three-part financial triage strategy during a crisis.
• 22:27 – Smallest-to-largest debt payoff to maintain motivation.
• 24:23 – Living within one’s means to pursue God-given callings.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Faith and works go hand in hand when preparing for and enduring financial crises.
• Prioritize essentials, build an emergency fund, and keep giving as a spiritual and practical discipline.
• Don’t be swayed by societal pressures to overspend or use credit irresponsibly. Instead, live within your means—sometimes that means making hard but necessary choices.
• Quick wins in debt payoff (starting with the smallest debts) build motivation and momentum.
• Above all, develop discipline and communicate financial reasoning with family, especially children, to build generational wisdom.

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Tune in to Part 2 for more actionable tools and encouragement from Michelle Singletary.

Transcript

[Jim Daly]

Your marriage can be healed. A Hope Restored Marriage Intensive from FOCUS ON THE FAMILY can transform you and your spouse's relationship in just a few days.

[Michelle Singletary]

We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage.

[Jim Daly]

Discover [e-mail] or that's hoperestored.com.

[Michelle Singletary]

So then you need to look at your budget and put in places where you can keep your money low so how much you spend for a car and things like that. And so you may have to skip a vacation a couple of years while you stockpile savings for yourself. It's all about looking at what's important in your life and funding that and letting everything else go.

[John Fuller]

Today on FOCUS ON THE family, you'll hear from financial expert Michelle Singletary. She's going to help you get a handle on your money. She has some great advice on managing finances, especially given all that's going on in today's world and economy. I'm John Fuller, and your host is FOCUS president and author Jim Daly.

[Jim Daly]

John, I think it's not just in the US here, but Canada and other countries. We're going through a lot of financial turbulence, I guess you would call it inflation. You know, we're paying so much for gas and groceries and all of those kinds of things. And it's a perfect time to bring in a wonderful expert when it comes to how to manage your budget and how to create a budget and things like that. And we're going to talk to Michelle Singletary today, and she's got great insights and a great book on how to better manage your dollars, especially in a crisis.

[John Fuller]

Right. And Michelle's book is called what to do with youh Money When Crisis Hits A Survival Guide. We have copies of that here at the Ministry. Stop by the Show Notes or give us a call. 800 the letter A in the word family. Michelle Singletary is a financial columnist for the Washington Post. She has a master's degree in business and management. And she's been here before and she's always a popular guest.

[Jim Daly]

Absolutely. Michelle, welcome back.

[Michelle Singletary]

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. And you also went to Johns Hopkins, which is quite impressive for that master's degree.

[Michelle Singletary]

That's amazing.

[Jim Daly]

We had a board member, Dr. Ken Fentress. He went there as well. And he he did his PhD in dead languages.

[Michelle Singletary]

Oh, wow.

[Jim Daly]

Biblical dead languages. And Ken, if you're listening, thank you for Doing that, I'm sure it was an incredible journey. You heard that introduction, Michelle. There's so much fear if we watch too much news. I mean, you can go to bed every night. Opposite of what Jesus told us, right? Fear not. And we could just get filled with fear because of what we see and hear. And we've got to be very cautious, especially in the Christian community. Take, you know, all of this with a grain of salt, because we know the author and creator of our lives and our universe. That should give us some comfort, right?

[Michelle Singletary]

He does. That's right.

[Jim Daly]

But when you're looking at it, you know, our dollars aren't going as far as they used to. I think 63% of people are living paycheck to paycheck. And when things go up, that's a fear. How do you first address that emotional issue of money?

[Michelle Singletary]

So you know what I tell people to lean in to your, especially with your faith, right? Because we are taught to be faithful. But Scripture also talks to us that faith without works is dead. So you got to look at both parts of it. You want to use your faith, but there are things that you can do so that when we have times of crisis, you have something to fall back on. The problem is doing good times. We just think it's never going to end. It's always going to be good. God doesn't promise us good times all the time. He just says, we're gonna be. I'm gonna be there. But when you can, there's some things that you should do that when those times come, you can lean on your faith because you've done all the work. So that means saving when you have the money. That means not living above your means, making better financial choices. And that's the kind of thing that both my husband and I teach. We have a program at our church in the Maryland area. And that's what we've been preparing people for. And I tell before the pandemic, I was telling people, you know, you got to save. You got to, you know, live more focused. People were like, oh, things are going great. And, you know, what are you talking about? And sure enough, here's what hit. And they weren't prepared. And these are people who had the money. You know, there are different parts of America, right? We've got parts of America where people are just not making enough. They just making below, you know, minimum wage are below. And then there's a good part of America that is doing okay, you know, but then they overspend. And of course, there are people who no matter what the economy does, they're going to be okay. They've got a lot of money.

[Jim Daly]

It reminds me of that Joseph moment, right? The great story of the Old Testament where Joseph is in Egypt and he's put in charge of everything. And he says, okay, we're going to save up.

[Michelle Singletary]

That's right.

[Jim Daly]

We need all the grain we can save up for a seven year famine.

[Michelle Singletary]

I love that story.

[Jim Daly]

It's a great story.

[Michelle Singletary]

I teach that story. It is because when we teach the story, it's often like from, you know, prison to palace, you know, we could have teach it that way. I think it's a saving story, right? Because when you think about it, his brothers would not have come to see him had it not been his, their father saying, hey listen, they got extra up there, we need food, we need food, go get that extra. And Joseph's doing times of plenty. You know, the scripture says he saved so much that was overflowing. So he saved even past what they needed. And then they reunited trying to get more. And that story is all about when times are good, you save an abundance, not just for yourself. Because I really believe that your savings should be for your family and to help others. And that's what he did because he would have had plenty just for Egypt. But he said, no, I'm going to do more. And I think that's the message of that story, which I just love.

[Jim Daly]

You know, Michelle, I hadn't thought of this, but we have so many great donors to focus on the family. That right. Incredible checks. You know, you sit there and go, wow, how can a person do that? I'm just so grateful to them for doing exactly what you're suggesting. The other awesome side of that is the joy in which they do it. You know, some people even put a smiley face on the check, like a half a million dollar check. And they put a smiley face on it because the Lord's blessed them like that. It's just so, man, it just is so refreshing to have a good attitude toward giving. Whether it's $20, $200 or $200,000, it doesn't really matter. Let me ask you a real, your great book, what to do with your money when crisis hits. Maybe a general question. What advice do you have for people that are hitting a financial calamity? What do they do first other than maybe worry?

[Michelle Singletary]

Yeah, you know, well, worry is a natural thing, but we're not supposed to worry. But can I just be honest? I'm just going to be completely honest. I'm a Worry. I know I shouldn't be. I'm a woman of faith, you know, but it's just how I was raised. My grandmother was a worrier. She passed it on to me. And so what I try to do is get people. I don't say, don't panic, because that's just not where people live. So I said, you know what? It's okay. Ah, like when the stock market is going down, he's like, ah, but you don't want to act on that panic. And so that's what I say. Feel what you feel because you feel. You want to acknowledge the pain that people are going through. And then you can come around and say, these are the things that you need to do to get out of this predicament. And that's how I sort of approach it. And it's also not a time to wag your finger at people, you know, because this financial stuff is really, really tough. And it has nothing to do with your intelligence level. I have worked with doctors and lawyers. They just spend money, and they just spend money. And accountants. Can you believe it? Accountants. I was in church one time and we were. We had a little table because we were recruiting for our ministry. And a woman came up ahead of her husband with her baby in her arms. And she says, michelle, can you talk to my husband? He is really bad with money. And I said, isn't your husband an accountant? And she said, yeah, that's the problem. He thinks he knows everything. He handles his clients money perfectly. But our money, it just. It's a disaster. And I said that showed me that it has nothing to do with your intelligence level. Sometimes you're overconfident. Sometimes the men are a little overconfident. And so there's a lot that you have to do to put in place for when a crisis hit. And that's really what the book is about. That, you know, we are all. It's not a matter of if there is going to be another financial crisis. It's when.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, and that's fair. You mentioned your grandmother. And I do want people to hear that story because it's a beautiful story. It's what happens in families, and I experienced that myself. We didn't have grandparents, but I ended up in foster care and other things. But you had your grandmother, which you call Big Mama.

[Michelle Singletary]

Big Mama.

[Jim Daly]

So tell us about Big Mama and what happened and why you ended up there.

[Michelle Singletary]

Y. When there was five of us, my sister was eight, I was four. A sister who was three, and twin brothers just under two years Old. And our parents, you know, had some issues, and they basically abandoned us. They didn't tell anyone we were in the house. And my grandmother, bless her heart, said she had a dream. I believe it's probably the Lord talking to her, I would think. And she said, something's wrong. He told her, something's wrong. She sent my grandfather over to check on us to a wellness check. And we were all in the house. There was no food in the refrigerator. He scooped us all up and took us to my grandmother's house. And then, of course, the authorities got involved, and they were gonna take us to foster care because five grandchildren was a lot for her. And then she said, you know what? They wanted to split us up. And so she said, I'm not gonna have that happen. And so she said, I'm gonna take all five of them. Every time I say, I can't even imagine I have three, that's a big heart. I don't even want those three.

[Jim Daly]

That's a big heart.

[Michelle Singletary]

I mean, for her to say, I'm gonna take all five of them. Most of us had health issues. My brother had epilepsy. My sister had really bad asthma. I had arthritis, juvenile arthritis. So just, like, a lot, right? And my grandfather, who was a kind soul, had problems with alcohol, so he sometimes would come home with his paycheck, sometimes not. But no matter what, she paid every single bill on time. No matter what, she paid her mortgage off early.

[Jim Daly]

Wow.

[Michelle Singletary]

I mean, she. The way she managed money was just miraculous. Right.

[Jim Daly]

I think I see where you got it.

[Michelle Singletary]

Yeah. No, seriously, I learned everything at her feet. I absorbed everything from her. And she's just the best money manager I've ever. I always joke that if she had a penny, Lincoln would scream, you know, and she. And the thing that I appreciate about my grandmother that I only just really started talking about, because now, as a parent of, you know, young adults, I get it. My grandmother never apologized for what she couldn't get us. You know, some parents, like, oh, I'm so sorry, and they feel guilty, they overspend, because they, you know, they give in to all the materialism that is out there. And my grandmother, she said, we don't have it, and I'm not going to get it, and I'm not going to apologize for that. This is all that I can give you, and you need to be satisfied with that.

[Jim Daly]

Well, that's good, even having that discussion, you know, so many times. Parents will maybe live that way, that frugal way, but they don't explain it. So the kids don't really have an opportunity to understand it. They just think they're being deprived.

[Michelle Singletary]

Right, that's right. That's right. Right. And you know, and kids will be kids. They see their friends get stuff. But you're right, she talked us through it all. And I just remember thinking, okay, well I can't do anything about it. And it's so interesting. I just had a discussion with my adult daughters and we are, you know, we a podcast with them. And you know, the children don't ever tell you that they're, they've, they've listened to all the stuff. They just always fussing and rolling their eyes. But when I, when we were discussing what it was like growing up under me, who was frugal like my grandmother, and I said, well, did I scar you? And they just started laughing. They said, you know, we didn't like what you were saying, but now we understand. Because I would have all these phrases that I would use. Like if they wanted to go out to a fast food restaurant, it was like, do you have fast food money? You know, do you have a job? You know, and I always say, take things. And I would say college fund when they wanted to ask for stuff because my husband and I sent all three of them to college with no debt. And so when they would ask for things, we go, well, college fund. And they just hated it. But now because they don't have any debt and they can do things with their money and their life that they wouldn't have been able to do, they said, you know, we now appreciate those conversations even though they were so unique. Annoying. Well, that's good.

[Jim Daly]

You got them over that line.

[Michelle Singletary]

I got him over that line.

[Jim Daly]

That's pretty impressive. The experience with your grandma helped you obviously to be frugal and that is great. I think you cite a survey in the book that shows 53% of parents use credit cards or loans to pay for non essential items. So speak to that misuse. I guess you would characterize with credit cards. What should we use credit cards for and what should we not use credit cards for?

[Michelle Singletary]

Well, in America, we have taught Americans to live the American dream on borrowed money. Don't wait to save, just get it now.

[Jim Daly]

That's what the nation does.

[Michelle Singletary]

That's what the nation does.

[Jim Daly]

30 trillion.

[Michelle Singletary]

And so we teach them to not wait. And if parents are in different situations, maybe they've been divorced, maybe they're single parents and there's all this guilt of not being able to provide the materialistic things. I'm not talking about food and clothing and shelter, the extra stuff. And I get that. I understand that. But when we use credit that way and we can't pay it off every month, you create this hole that is so hard to dig yourself out of, particularly when the credit card interest rates are so high now they're approaching 20%, and some people have interest rates higher than that. And so we use credit to elevate our lifestyle, and then we get to the point where we can't pay it. And then you can't save for your retirement. You can't save to send your kids to college. You can't save when you lose a job and everything becomes so tenuous. And so for my husband and I, even though we had the resources to give more, we wouldn't. And we used credit. I think you can use credit if you can pay it off the next month. It's a convenient way not to have cash in your pocket. But if you can't pay that bill off the next month in full, then you shouldn't be using that credit card,

[Jim Daly]

you know, in that regard. Again, the practical nature of this, I think in the book you talked about with your kids, but I guess you could do it too, with yourself. You know, get a $500 cash card, and that's your grocery card for the week or for the month. Whatever applies to you. But you could find different ways to offset the ease of a credit card.

[Michelle Singletary]

That's right.

[Jim Daly]

Without having to build up the debt of it.

[Michelle Singletary]

That's right. So credit is a convenience that they teach us that it's for our convenience. And now they have the point where you speed up the process of payment. So now you can just tap your card. You know, I be dating myself, but you remember when they had to pull out the machine and put the card in there and that sound, you know, and then sometimes they even had to go in the back and look for the machine. So now you can tap your card and pay. You can pay by looking. They have, you know, open your phone and they can. You can pay by just looking at the phone. And so when they decrease the time that it takes for you to pay, you tend to not think about how much you're spending till you get that bill. Because you get that bill because it's so quick, you don't have time to think about, can I afford this? So when you use cash or you use that prepaid card or even your debit card, which only has so much on there, then you tend to take a pause, can I afford this? But when you Use credit. You don't take that pause.

[Jim Daly]

It's so funny dating myself. I remember I left my wallet in my car one time and it melted the numbers so the numbers weren't raised. So that when they ran it over the machine, it wasn't capturing the number. And I think it took one or two merchants. I didn't know. I signed the slip and I was done. But one of them called me and said, you need to come back to the store because your numbers didn't come across. So it was all, you know, unintentional. But yeah, that dates me.

[John Fuller]

This is FOCUS on the Family with Michelle Singletary and Jim Daly, your host. And we're having a great conversation about things that matter, finances, and how you can get a handle on yours. And we would certainly commend to you Michelle's terrific book, what to do with youh Money When Crisis Hits. And as we said earlier, even before crisis hits, get a copy of the book from us here at the ministry. The link is in the show notes or call 800. The letter A and the word family.

[Jim Daly]

Michelle, I want to go to a practical question. Probably Big Mama's example is the way to do this, but there are certain things in your budget that are necessary. You need to pay your mortgage, pay your rent, you need to pay utilities. You need to buy groceries. So when you're looking at the must haves versus the wants, I mean the wants we put a lot of like a phone is not a necessity and especially a big plan. So describe for me in those basic terms if we're really scratching in this economy and prices are going up, what do we focus on to make sure we do have enough budget for the things we need?

[Michelle Singletary]

Right. So the first thing first is first is giving. It must be at the top. Now it's interesting when you tell that to non Christians, they go, well, that doesn't make any sense. If you're in debt and you got to pay all this, why would you do that? That should come last. But I think the whole concept of tithing was God's way to demand discipline in your finances. Because if you have to carve out that first 10%, then you must be a better manager of the 90 that's left left. And if you only have 90 now, you're starting to figure out, well, what can I cut out? So housing, food, all that becomes important and then you start looking at the things that are not a necessity. So maybe you need a cell phone because you want to stay connected to your kids. Okay, whatever. I my kids didn't have phones until they were in high school because I figured where were they going to be where there wasn't an adult or somebody who had a phone? And they were probably in their middle school, honestly, and I'm not exaggerating, they probably were the kids who did not have a cell phone. And they fussed. And I said, I don't care, because we have a college fund to fund.

[Jim Daly]

We got one objective.

[Michelle Singletary]

We got one objective. And so then you start looking at the necessities, the other things that you have to do, and then you can add back in some wants. And you will never hear me tell people to not get, like, that expensive coffee, if that. I'm not a coffee drinker. I like tea. Much less expensive. But if that coffee sets you in the mood for the day, you know, that good cup of java and you're going into work and you have a sense of calmness, I'm okay with that. Because that. That's something that is important to you. Because, you know, if you work at a crazy place, not here, but I, you know, work at a very high intense place, I am okay with that. Because that cup of coffee is not what's keeping you from being a millionaire. It's not what's keeping you from buying that home. That expense is, too. The big things, how much you spend for that car, getting that car. Note, that's five or six or seven years if you need a car. Note, that is more than 48 months, four years, you cannot afford that car. And so then you need to look at your budget and put in places where you can keep your money low. So how much you spend for a car and things like that. And so you may have to skip a vacation a couple of years while you stockpile savings for yourself. It's all about looking at what's important in your life and funding that and letting everything else go.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. Again, good advice. It really requires some discipline. And that can be the Achilles heel for people. Right. Just to stay disciplined, not perfect. It's kind of like parenting, right?

[Michelle Singletary]

Yeah, perfect.

[Jim Daly]

You don't have to be perfect, but you need to be in the good space. And that's part of what you're talking about with budgeting. In addition to that, you recommend three areas of triage when people are struggling financially. So let's hit those. And particularly when you're unemployed or underemployed. What were those three?

[Michelle Singletary]

So when I got this idea, when you go to the hospital, to the emergency room, and I've been there, you know, some Kid breaks an arm or something and you see someone come in and they go ahead of you and you're thinking, well, wait a minute, I've been sitting here for hours. And so what they're doing is they're triaging who is the most important life threatening. And so that's what you have to do with your life. So you have to what needs to be taken care of right away. Emergency fund life happens. Fun. That's something I talk about in a book. And then your savings for different things like your daily expenses and then the long term things like retirement and things like that. So you have to, because you only have a certain amount of money coming in and that's what you need to do. What is the most important thing that you have to take care of. And then you go to the, the daily stuff and then that's when the wants and the other things come in.

[Jim Daly]

And in that regard, that triage, when you have debt, you kind of got to look at it. What's the highest interest, try to pay that off. That's what I've heard from other financial folks. Do you agree with that? Do you kind of look at it? What's your attack methodology?

[Michelle Singletary]

Yeah, I don't agree with that. That's all right. I'm a little different than a lot of financial experts because they're looking at the math and it does make more sense. You line up your debt with the one with the most expensive interest rate. Works on paper, but we know that what works on paper often doesn't work in practice. And so what I found in the ministry that I run at my church is that when people list their debts from the smallest to the largest, ignoring the interest rate, you attack that first debt. Get a win, smallest you get a win. And people feel like, oh, I've now reduced my debt so quickly I can go to the next one and then the next one. And I've done this year after year and, and what I found is that when people get those quick wins, they become more energized to get rid of the debt and they actually get rid of it sooner. And there have been studies that show that, that this method, small to the largest, actually works because it's more psychological because the money issue, you know, oftentimes people don't have a money issue. They have a management, a mental issue. Right. And my husband and I, when we knew that we wanted to have kids, one of the things we said is that we don't want them to have the weight of debt because Deb limits your Choices. Two of my kids are in professions that don't make a lot of money by our standards. Right. One is a therapist, a social worker. The other is a kindergarten teacher. Right. She's gonna earn some good money, but not the money. A lawyer or doctor might.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, you gotta manage it.

[Michelle Singletary]

You've gotta manage it. But my daughter can be a teacher. That is her God gift to be a teacher. I call her the kid whisperer.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah.

[Michelle Singletary]

She'll walk in a room, and I don't care how age. They all kind of migrate to her. She has that spir. But what happens when people say they want to be a teacher? What's the first thing?

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, we all say, well, you may not be able to make a living

[Michelle Singletary]

doing that, but my goodness, you wouldn't be sitting here. You wouldn't be sitting here. I wouldn't be sitting here if not for the fact of educators. Sure, right. Educators push me to do what I do. I remember in high school, the high school counselor, there was a full scholarship, and she said, you ought to apply for this. It was a journalism scholarship. And I said, I'm not going to do it. They're not going to give it to me. Who are they? I'm this little kid who was. Was tossed out by her parents, raised by her grandmother. Her grandfather was an alcoholic. They're not going to give this to me. She said, apply anyway, because you already have a no. Right. So. And I applied and I got it. Had it not been for her believing in me before I believed in me, I wouldn't be sitting in this chair today. So I would not want to deprive my daughter of that career. So I teach her how to handle my husband. I teach her how to handle her money so that she could be a teacher. Maybe you were gifted to be a bus driver. Maybe you were gifted to be in a career that isn't going to earn. What we Americans think is, you know, what you should be earning. But if we teach people to handle money well, they, for the most part, can live in whatever God has gifted them to be as a career. And so we never told her. We never came out of our mouths. You're never going to earn much as a teacher. Don't you want to be an administrator? You want to be this? We said, go ahead and be that teacher. And now she calls our children my children. And I just love that.

[Jim Daly]

Well, and it shows you the power of being free to do the things you're called to do. And you're not anchored by the debt that's created because you're living beyond your means. And sometimes that's really hard. But man, you illustrate such incredible discipline, you and your husband, and that's what makes it so worthwhile. Your book, what to do with youh Money When Crisis Hits. I mean, it is a manual on taking care and it's not impossible. I love that statement. Your friend said you already know no. So why not try? Yes. I mean, so getting disciplined and doing the right things, paying debt down, etc. Michelle let's come back. Next time, cover more great tools to manage your money in a way that honors the Lord first and foremost and then helps position you to be able to give and do the things that God's calling you to do. Can we do that?

[Michelle Singletary]

Yes, of course.

[Jim Daly]

Let's do it. And listen, listen. We want to get this book into your hands. If you can participate in ministry and make a monthly gift or a one time gift, we'll send it as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. We don't pay shareholders. There's no profit earned at Focus, so it all goes back into ministry, which is great. If you can't afford it, obviously we're a Christian ministry. We'll give it to you and we'll get it into your hands and we'll trust others. We'll cover the cost of doing so. It's probably one of the most important things you could do is get your finances in order so you can bless others and bless ministries in order to do the work that God's called you together to do. So do it. Get in touch with us no matter what your circumstances and we'll bless you with this great resource.

[John Fuller]

If you're in a spot to make a monthly pledge, we sure would appreciate that a one time gift makes a big difference. Donate as you can when you call 800-THE LETTER A and the word family or stop by the show notes. Either way, don't donate and request that copy of the book by Michelle Singletary, what to do with youh Money When Crisis hits. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

[Jim Daly]

Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us and it's our job as believers to to share his truth with a world in need. I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more while helping you share God's love with others. [e-mail].