Best of 2025: Envisioning What Heaven Will Be Like

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Episode: Best of 2025: Envisioning What Heaven Will Be Like
Date: December 29, 2025
Guests: Pam Farrell (author and speaker), John Burke (pastor, author of Imagine Heaven)
Host(s): Jim Daly and John Fuller

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Episode Overview

This episode features a heartfelt and thought-provoking discussion on what heaven may be like, inspired by near death experiences (NDEs) that point to biblical truths about the afterlife. Pam Farrell shares her vivid encounter with what she describes as a "glimpse of God's glory" during a medical crisis, while John Burke, drawing from decades of research and his books Imagine Heaven and Imagine the God of Heaven, explains the commonalities and scriptural alignment found in thousands of NDE accounts. The conversation seeks to encourage listeners to hope in Christ’s promises, find comfort about life after death, and understand the tangible love of God as described by those who have experienced NDEs.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Validity and Nature of Near Death Experiences

• John Burke sets the stage by providing a Christian framework for NDEs, emphasizing that these are testimonies of the reality of heaven, hell, and the triune God.
  • “I think they are testimonies from God of the reality of heaven and hell and God's reality, the triune God of the Bible.” (03:31 – John Burke)
• A 2019 study found that 5% of people across 35 countries report near death experiences. (03:54 – John Burke)
• Burke’s research, spanning 35 years and thousands of NDEs, reveals about 40 core commonalities that strongly align with the Bible’s portrayal of the afterlife. (04:49 – John Burke)
• He cautions that interpretations of NDEs can vary widely based on personal beliefs, but the reported experiences themselves often share “a beautiful picture of the reality of the life to come…[with] the presence of Jesus as the highlight of it all.” (05:40 – John Burke)

2. Pam Farrell’s Near Death Experience: A Personal Testimony

• Pam shares the backstory: A fragile diabetes diagnosis, adverse reactions to changed medications, a broken rib, and subsequent medical crisis led to a diabetic coma. (07:15 – Pam Farrell)
• In the midst of her darkest moment, she describes a supernatural sense of peace—“the peace of God that passes all understanding”—as she transitions to her vision. (09:10 – Pam Farrell)
• Vivid, multisensory imagery:
  • “Jesus was wrapped around me… in his presence, …fully peaceful, …fully joyful…full of love, hope, beauty, like everything you can think of.” (09:23 – Pam Farrell)
  • She saw the gates of heaven, multitudes of angels “every shape and size and ethnicity” filled with a glittering gold “you can't even make in this world.” (09:47 – Pam Farrell)
  • The scene morphed into “mountaintops with rushing rivers of gold,” representing answered prayers, referencing her daily Ephesians 3:20 prayer: “God would do exceedingly, abundantly, beyond all you can ask, think, dream or feel.” (10:18, 10:42 – Pam Farrell)
• Her personal moment of surrender: “I am so happy to stay here…But God, …not my will, but yours be done.” She sensed Jesus communicating nonverbally that it wasn’t her time—"I have more for you to do." (11:07 – Pam Farrell)
• Upon revival in the ICU, her first action was gratitude: “I wrote, thanks [heart, happy face]. …She [the nurse] started crying. …Nobody ever thanks us.” (11:52 – Pam Farrell)

3. Connecting Experiences: Research and Theology

• Burke draws parallels between Pam’s report and others, notably Dr. Mary Neal’s experience of being “enveloped” by Jesus, highlighting the immediate recognition and certainty of Jesus’ presence in NDEs. (13:03 – John Burke)
• The discussion addresses skeptics, noting common arguments (chemical reactions, oxygen deprivation, etc.), but Burke points to evidence that cannot be explained through biology alone, such as verifiable out-of-body perceptions and blind-from-birth individuals reporting visual details in line with others’ NDEs (13:51–20:28 – John Burke).
• Scriptural Resonance: Many elements in NDEs—feeling more alive, heightened senses, indescribable beauty (“not five senses, but more like fifty” [04:49 – John Burke]), and echoless communication—reflect biblical teachings, such as 1 Corinthians 15 and Revelation 21. (15:00–20:30 – John Burke)

4. The Tangible Love of God

• A key theme: The magnitude of God’s love in these experiences is beyond human understanding.
  • “Imagine standing in the ocean and the best human love is like waves gently lapping… and then here comes God's love and it’s a tsunami that just washes away all fear, all concern, all worry.” (21:23 – John Burke)
• Pam echoes: “It felt like I was his only girl and I had his full attention and he was ministering to my deepest needs that I didn’t even know that I had.” (22:05 – Pam Farrell)
• Both guests emphasize that God’s presence is personal—intensely intimate yet universally encompassing.

5. Practical Impact: Hope, Comfort, and Perspective

• Both hosts and guests acknowledge the emotional and practical impact these testimonies have for those facing illness, grief, or uncertainty.
• Pam and John’s books (Imagine Heaven, Glimpse of God’s Glory) are highlighted as resources for comfort and for shifting fear of death to joy and anticipation:
  • “I remember at the end of reading that just feeling like the way I want to go into this is yahoo. Not fearful.” (16:40 – Jim Daly)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On experiencing heaven:
  • “I was more alive than I've ever been in a place more real than this. This is the shadow. That's the real thing.” (13:51 – John Burke)
• Jesus’ presence described:
  • “He wrapped me up in his presence, and it was fully peaceful, it’s fully joyful. It was fully full of love, hope, beauty, like everything you can think of.” (09:23 – Pam Farrell)
• On the love of God:
  • “I know it wasn't true, but I felt like I was the only, like his only child, like the only one he allowed.” (22:05 – John Burke, citing NDE testimonies)
  • “I was wrapped in him…and it felt like I was his only girl and I had his full attention and he was ministering to my deepest needs.” (22:05 – Pam Farrell)
• After returning to life:
  • “I wrote, thanks [heart, happy face]…[the nurse] started crying.” (11:52 – Pam Farrell)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:31 | John Burke explains the Christian perspective on NDEs | | 04:49 | 40 common NDE features aligning with scripture | | 07:15 | Pam Farrell begins describing her medical crisis | | 09:10 | Pam’s transition into her “glimpse of God's glory” | | 10:42 | The scene of heaven, prayers, and rivers of gold | | 11:07 | Pam’s surrender and return to life | | 13:03 | Burke draws NDE parallels, referencing Dr. Mary Neal | | 13:41 | Addressing scientific skepticism of NDEs | | 15:39 | Pam & John describe the beauty and senses in heaven | | 16:40 | Jim Daly discusses practical impact and emotional preparation | | 19:34 | Burke presents concrete evidence: out-of-body and blind NDEs | | 21:23 | Discussion of overwhelming, tsunami-like love of God | | 22:05 | Pam describes the intimacy and attention from Jesus |

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Closing Thoughts

The episode is an uplifting exploration of heaven as attested by those who have had near death experiences, all reinforcing the biblical promise that, "what no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him." (1 Corinthians 2:9 quoted at 23:10). The guests urge listeners to embrace hope, release fear, and deepen trust in God's love and the life to come.

For encouragement and resources, including Pam and John’s books, listeners are directed to Focus on the Family’s website.

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Tone: Warm, personal, hope-filled, openly Christian; blending personal story, gentle humor, research, and pastoral encouragement.

Transcript

[Jim Daly]

Hi, this is Jim Dailey. We've enjoyed spending time with you this year, helping strengthen your marriage, your parenting and your walk with Jesus Christ. If you've been blessed by this ministry, can you pay it forward by donating to Focus on the Family before the end of the year? Thanks to our 8 million dollar match, your giving will have twice the impact. Call 800 AFAMILY or [e-mail] family.

[Pam Farrell]

If a deduction is important to you for your 2025 income tax return and you're concerned about the recent postal service rule change for postmarks, consider making your.

[John Burke]

Donation online or giving us a call.

[Pam Farrell]

The walled city was like heaven with the pearly gates, only they were much more golden then and the angels were above that and they were dancing and they were glittering gold. And then it was shifted and morphed to the mountains and, and the mountains even were like even more beautiful than any mountain range that I've ever seen anywhere.

[John Fuller]

That's Pam Ferrell sharing just a bit of her incredible out of this world experience on today's Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. She joins us along with John Burke. And I'm John Fuller. Thank you for joining us for another of our best of 2025 episodes.

[Jim Daly]

John, I'm really excited about this program we're about to share and I think people are going to enjoy it. John Burke has been here a few times with such accounts of people who have had near death experiences and really a phenomenal way to approach those things, to categorize them. We'll hear more from him in a moment. But I've just always been taken by that. His wonderful book Imagine Heaven made a big difference in Gene and I's life. I mean, we just were captivated by it. And we also learned one of our popular guests and good friend Pam Farrell had an experience herself and we know that we had to bring John and Pam together and kind of dial about that experience and get John's expertise on what happened. I'm so excited to dig into this story and it's just again, one example of thousands, literally hundreds of thousands of examples of where people have touched that perimeter of heaven and been able to come back and then explain it. This is so good.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. We live in a world where we think this is it. And the truth is, no, there's a whole lot more beyond this. And John Burke, just by way of background, John founded Gateway Church in Austin, Texas. And you mentioned his book Imagine Heaven that sold over a million copies and continues to be a best Seller Pam Farrell is a speaker and author and as you said, she's been here a number of times as well. She and Bill, her husband, typically speak to relational issues and concerns and well being. But she's captured her story in a book called Glimpse of God's Glory where one woman's near death experience. You can learn more about our guests and their books at the website. We've got the link in the show notes.

[Jim Daly]

John, Pam, welcome back to focus. It's always good to see you.

[Pam Farrell]

Thank you. Such an honor. Privilege to be with you all.

[John Burke]

Yeah, great to be back.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, it's fun. Let me ask this of you, John, first before we start to unpack Pam, your story. You've written Imagine Heaven, Imagine the God of Heaven, which is the follow up and additional excellent resource. But just lay the Christian perspiration perspective on what we call near death experience. Just give us that quick tutorial on it and what you've experienced.

[John Burke]

Yeah, so I think they are testimonies from God of the reality of heaven and hell and God's reality, the triune God of the Bible. And that's what I'm trying to show in my writing. And Imagine Heaven, I'm showing how when you look at the millions of people and it's millions who have had near.

[Jim Daly]

Death, not hundreds of Thousands, but millions.

[John Burke]

2019 study reported by the European Academy of Neurology across 35 countries found that 5% of the population of all those countries has had a near death experience when they were near clinical death.

[Jim Daly]

Well, I think what I've appreciated when we've talked in times past is just for the Christian and I would say for the viewer and listener right now, just leave your mind open for a little while and just say lord, show me, let me hear this conversation. And I think that's what we have. We line up on one side saying even to the extreme that this is somehow demonic or the other side, which is where you've written this is insight. It's a, we're looking into something that we don't know well.

[John Burke]

And it's important to realize that what people report is not necessarily the same as how they interpret what they report.

[Jim Daly]

Which is your distinction.

[John Burke]

That's very critical. That's why it took me 35 years of researching thousands of them to understand all these things that someone. So in Imagine Heaven I trace like 40 commonalities of these experiences that people report. Right. And showing how they all align with the expectation of the afterlife in scripture. And what you have to understand is someone may just have A few of those, you know, they. They leave their body, they feel all these new senses. Not five senses, but more like 50 senses. Maybe they meet people deceased on the other side and then they come back. Well, whether you're an atheist or a believer in Jesus or a Buddhist or a Muslim, you can. You can interpret that a million different ways. But if you put all the commonalities together, it's this beautiful picture of the reality of the life to come. And as many say, it is more real than this life. They feel more alive than they've ever felt. And the presence of Jesus is the highlight of it all.

[Jim Daly]

Well, in addition to that, you've said in the past that those consistencies do point to scriptural references.

[John Fuller]

Oh, absolutely.

[Jim Daly]

And that's one of the great things you've done in your book. So, Pam, let me turn to you. Welcome in.

[Pam Farrell]

Thank you.

[Jim Daly]

We want to dive into that story that you had. You had a health scare that landed you in the hospital. So paint the picture for us and what took place.

[Pam Farrell]

Yeah. So it started off with I had diabetes and 1.5, which is kind of a fragile diabetes. It's hard to, like, manage and hard to medicate. And I went to an endocrinologist, and she gave me some new meds, but they were supply chain issues, so I couldn't take them on this trip that I was going on to speak Speak for Creatives in Texas. And on the way to Texas, somehow I thought I hurt my shoulder and I was in excruciating pain. And so when I landed my sweet mentee, she's like, helping me drag all my things to the car, and she's like, do you need to go to the doctor? And I'm like, no, no, I'll just gut it out. I just need some pain over the counter stuff. So I took various over the counter things, and I was in pain more and more. And then so I called Bill. I said, okay, pick me up as close to the gate as you can. I mean, I literally can't even pick up my backpack.

[Jim Daly]

Bill's your husband?

[Pam Farrell]

Yes, my husband, Bill. And so he caught me. I was like, crying as I stepped out of. He's like, you need to get to the doctor. I'm like, let me just go to sleep tonight and tomorrow morning, first thing. And that physician gave me stronger painkillers. And then he happened to take like an X ray, and he called back and he's like, you broke your rib. That's why you're in so much pain. And then because I had broken My rib, and I was in so much pain. My sugar elevated like crazy. And the all the over the counter meds, plus the new med that he had given me, totally shut down my digestive system. And so I became toxic. And so on Sunday, that year was just two years ago. It was hot and. But I had five blankets on me. I couldn't get warm. And I grabbed my heart as he walked in, and I said, I think I'm having a heart attack, Bill. And my dad died of a heart attack at 62. And so it caught his attention. He's like, taking you to the ER right now. Five minutes later, we were at the best hospital in town. And the two doctors that were on call, one was a specialist in diabetes, the other was a specialist in heart. And so that diabetes specialist said, oh, I know what's happening here. It's a dk, which is like a really long way to say you're gonna have a diabetic coma. If we don't halt this, you could die. And so they put me in a medically induced coma to try to save my life. All I remember is the doctor said, pam, you need to slow down your breathing. I'm like, I can't. That's the last thing I remember is yelling at the doctor. But then the peace of God that passes all understanding had surrounded me, and so I had this overwhelming peace. And then as I stepped into what I call a glimpse of God's glory, the heaven I saw a picture of, you know, Jesus was wrapped around me. And people always say, did you see Jesus? I said, no. He wrapped me up in his presence, and it was fully peaceful, it's fully joyful. It was fully full of love, hope, beauty, like everything you can think of. And I could see the gates of heaven how you picture it when you read the Word. And there were angels. There's angels of all kinds. And they were every shape and size and ethnicity. And we're filled with glitter. Like the kind of shining glitter you can't even make in this world. And the angels were dancing before Jesus. And I was asking Jesus, okay, so is like, am I, like, dead? Is this heaven? Like, what's going on here? And we were communicating, but not with words, but rather his mind, with my mind. And then I. The angels would, like, kind of morph after this beautiful dancing would occur. They would morph, and it turned into mountaintops with rushing rivers of gold. And I'm like, what's up with this mountaintop thing? What are these rivers of gold? It looks like people that I love are scooping up all the gold. And I couldn't tell by their faces. I could tell by the way I felt about those that I loved. And he's like, pam, every day for the past decade at 3:20 you've prayed Ephesians 3:20 that God would do exceedingly, abundantly, beyond all you can ask, think, dream or feel. I'm showing you what prayer looks like on my side.

[Jim Daly]

You said that quickly. I want to make sure listeners, viewers catch that at 3:20pm I do.

[Pam Farrell]

And every day I pray that God would do exceedingly, abundantly, beyond all we can ask, think, dream or feel. Ephesians 3:20. And towards the end of my time there, I said, okay, so I am so happy to stay here. It is beautiful, it is incredible. But God, I also know that I have two grandsons that are ready to be born in two months and I have seven grandkids all together. Then I would love to pour into their life, but not my will, but yours be done. And just then Jesus said, okay, so you've been on the outside, the gates have not opened for you. It is not your time, Pam, I want you to go back. I have more for you to do. And just then, boom, my eyes opened. I was in the icu. My bells and whistles that I was connected to, like, we're going off. The nurse ran in and Bill had been sent home about 3 in the morning. So my nurse ran in and I'm on a ventilator and I see this whiteboard over in the corner with a pen. So she brought it over and I wrote, thanks heart, happy face. And I put an arrow towards her and she started crying. She's like, nobody ever thanks us. And in my head I'm like, what's wrong with people? You save people's lives every day and nobody ever thanks you. And just then Bill walked in, he's like, you're back. You're all the way back, you're writing and you're bossing people around. You're back.

[Jim Daly]

I love it. Little bit of humor, I love it. John, I could see your eyes and the intensity.

[John Burke]

This is all the questions I want to ask.

[Jim Daly]

So I think there you've done this for thousands of people talking with them about those experiences. You come from that engineering background, you were agnostic. But speak to Pam's experience and as you have interviewed other near death experience people, the spiritual connection to that. Yeah. What are we hearing? What are you hearing?

[John Burke]

Interestingly, did you went into the coma and you were instantly there at the Gates of Heaven.

[Pam Farrell]

I was. And the whole heaven experience, I just felt like I was home.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah.

[John Burke]

It's interesting. Dr. Mary Neal, who I also interviewed, said she died underwater in a kayak. 30 minutes.

[Pam Farrell]

Oh, I remember her story.

[John Fuller]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Burke]

So she said Jesus was. As soon as she said, God your will be done, she physically felt Jesus holding her, surrounding her, enveloping her. And I asked, how did you know it was Jesus? And she said, it's like if I saw my husband in the grocery store, I don't have to ask, who are you? Or are you my husband? It's like I just knew.

[Jim Daly]

That's something, John, in that way. I mean, the critics who will say, some doctors in fact, will say, well, this might just be a near death situation where our brain is excreting certain hormones in order to help us cope.

[John Burke]

The neurotransmitters flooding your brain.

[Jim Daly]

Hit some of that talk about what you've done in research to combat that and keep it more on a spiritual plane.

[John Burke]

Well, yeah. In the new book in Imagine the God of Heaven, chapter two, I talk about science, skeptics and NDEs. And I go through. Because there are lots of alternate explanations other than what people like Pam typically say, which is, I was more alive than I've ever been in a place more real than this. This is the shadow. That's the real thing.

[Jim Daly]

That's common.

[John Burke]

That's common. So that's the simple explanation. You know, there's a scientific principle called Occam's Razor, which is, you know, in the complexity of options, go with the simplest explanation. Well, that's the simplest explanation. But there are lots of alternatives like oxygen deprivation to the brain, anoxia, something called fighter pilot syndrome, where they get narrow tunnel and there's a bright light at the end. And they say, well, see, that's a near death experience. But interestingly so, some go through a tunnel to this place, but she was just there. And so was Don Piper. He was just there. So it's. And others, they go out of our atmosphere and accompanied by angels through outer space. It's wild, right? So for me, you know, I put 10 points of evidence in this chapter too, but just three of them, real quick. One is people often do see they're in a spiritual body, just like Paul talks about in First Corinthians 15, which he says is buried in brokenness, but is raised in dunam. That's the word we get dynamite. Raised in power. And these new powers of the spiritual body are thought to thought, heart to heart, perfect communication, eyesight that's telescopic. You can see for thousands of miles. I mean, and experiencing sensations of even how things grow, a connectedness.

[Pam Farrell]

Everything's beautiful. Like, if you picture a pastoral scene, it would be the most beautiful painting you've ever seen. I mostly saw the gates of glory and experienced him. But anything I looked at, whether it was like the angels or whether it was the mountains, they all were the most amazing beauty. Like, you can't even describe the colors.

[John Burke]

So this is the mountain.

[Pam Farrell]

So the walled city was like heaven with the pearly gates, only they were much more golden then and the angels were above that and they were glittering gold. And then it was shift and morphed to the mountains. And the mountains like we're right here in Colorado Springs. I mean, these are beautiful mountains. They were even more beautiful than any mountain range that I've ever seen anywhere with the rushing golden rivers. So I think that God can't help himself. It's just going to be beautiful.

[Jim Daly]

You know, at the end here, I mean, this is so much to take in. People are going, what? But when Gene and I read your book, John, particularly both of them, in fact, the thing that it did for us both practically, like intellectually, but also emotionally, is almost like a preparation. And I remember at the end of reading that, just feeling like the way I want to go into this is yahoo. Not fearful. And you know, again, we as Christians, we sometimes behave like we're not entirely sure. And some of that is understandable. I mean, we've not, many of us have not had that experience, Pam, that you've had. And I think in that context, with so many people that you have interviewed, you have to be going, wow, this is just a transition. Like you just said a moment ago, this is the shadow. What's to come. Is the for real.

[John Burke]

I mean, what they've commonly said to me is I was alive and then I was more alive.

[Pam Farrell]

Yes.

[John Burke]

Like, I don't. There wasn't death. Jesus said, God is not the God of the dead, he's the God of the living. And yet we somehow picture the life to come a little bit less than this. It's not going to be less.

[Pam Farrell]

Right. And Jesus says that I am the way, the truth and the life. And shortly after that, I went to a conference and they wanted me to share my experience and I did that. And a friend of mine said, I just picked up this little book. It's by an author that seems to really know what he's talking about. Pam. John Burke. So the first book that I Read wanting God's theology of what had just happened to me was Imagine Heaven by John. And I've since given that to so many people who found comfort when they got bad news about, you know, a terminal illness or maybe they've walked somebody through to heaven and they wanted to know, why did my mom reach up and say, do you see them? You know, why did it seem like they could see a glimpse of God's glory at the end of their days? And John's book has been a huge comfort to many people through some really hard times. It's given them a glimpse of God's glory.

[Jim Daly]

That's what we fell in love with. And John, you know, don't let these accolades go to your head, but let me say this. You know, every year we measure the impact Focus has had. Last year for that 12 month period, we had about 193,000 people make a decision for Christ. But in that context, John, as a pastor who has done this now, you came from that engineering, agnostic place. What is the pitch to the nonbeliever, where you used to be and now where you're no longer? Because you have seen this and heard this so consistently, so vibrantly. I know you don't fear the next step and speak to that non believer.

[John Burke]

Jim, there is so much evidence, if evidence is really what you want. And you know, I didn't even get into it, but verifiable observations. So what I was saying is when people are out of their bodies, they can see what's happening in their resuscitation. I interviewed cardiologists who said, I started interviewing these patients and they described the resuscitation I did in a way that they couldn't possibly have known. I could have used the recording to teach other physicians how to do resuscitation. That's one second. When people blind from birth have a near death experience, they can see and they report seeing things like the light of heaven. And we're talking about consistent reports of blind people and sighted people that the light of heaven comes out of everything. And it's not like light on earth. It's love and it's life all together.

[Jim Daly]

And they know it and feel it.

[John Burke]

They see it and see it and experience it. But a blind person wouldn't have heard that. And that's what John says in Revelation 21. There's no sun and moon in heaven, for the glory of God is its light, and the Lamb, Jesus is its lamp. And the nations will walk in that light.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, John, in that respect, this feeling you know, so many people that don't believe in Jesus have sometimes really, you know, a bad perception or perspective about the church. And I was treated bad by Christians once. Speak specifically to them that God loves them. God loves you and cares about you. And we know that as Christians, sometimes we don't demonstrate it to those non believers attitudinally, but just touch on that aspect of it. As you've talked to these people, the love of God is something we cannot comprehend.

[John Burke]

Yeah. And I mean, Pam could tell you firsthand, I'm sure, but what they commonly say is just what she said. There aren't enough adjectives. Imagine standing in the ocean and the best human love is like waves gently lapping against your knees. And then here comes God's love and it's a tsunami that just washes away all fear, all concern, all worry. One of the things that I was kind of shocked of how many near death experiencers told me is that in Jesus presence they said, you know, I know it wasn't true, but I felt like I was the only, like his only child, like the only one he allowed.

[Pam Farrell]

Yeah, I was wrapped in him and I knew that he was in charge of the whole world, in charge of all of heaven, and all of heaven was worshiping him. But it felt like I was his only girl and I had his full attention and he was ministering to my deepest needs that I didn't even know that I had. And when he allowed me to come back to this earth, the first verse that he gave me in my quiet time was, you have delivered me from death, even my feet from stumbling to walk before God in the light of life. And I thought that phrase, light of life, that's what transitions. It's here on Earth, if you want to know it. It's in heaven because he created heaven. It is who he is. Light and life.

[John Fuller]

What a fascinating conversation we've had today with Pam Farrell and John Burke. And I trust that this episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly has encouraged you to think about heaven and to grab onto that we have in Christ.

[Jim Daly]

Gene and I really love John Burke's content. His research and the stories he shares paint such a beautiful picture of what we can look forward to in heaven and that should be exciting to all of us as Christians. It reminds me of 1 Corinthians 2. 9, where Paul writes, what no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. And then to hear Pam's personal testimony really just Kind of brought it all together for us.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, I'm so glad we could bring these two together for this conversation. Their energy and excitement, it was palpable and it's easy to see why this made our best of 20, 25 programs. And let me remind you, Focus on the Family is here for you. If you've never given your life to Jesus Christ, we'd love to talk with you about how you do that and how you make that important decision. We have many resources available for you, like our online article Coming Home, which will expl what it means to accept Christ. You'll learn about God's love and grace and the steps you can take to become part of his family. We also have a bundle of the two books we talked about today. John Burke's best selling book Imagine Heaven and Pam's personal account called Glimpse of God's Glory. You can get that bundle only through us here at Focus on the Family and we'd like to send that to you for a donation of any amount today. And no amount is too small. It all adds up and helps.

[John Fuller]

And when you contribute to the work we do here at Focus on Family, you're partnering with us and helping people like Amy who wrote to tell us this. I just had to reach out and say thank you for today's program. I was sitting in my driveway this morning, supposed to be on my way to work, but I couldn't move. I was in tears as God spoke straight to my heart through your message. It was exactly what I needed to remind me that I am not alone, that God hasn't left me, and that I can trust him as I wait on his plans. Thank you for being the voice he used to give me hope today.

[Jim Daly]

I love that. And Amy is just one of many who turn to Focus on the Family each and every day. Over the past 12 months, more than 970,000 people have told us Focus on the Family has helped them grow stronger in their faith. I mean, that's almost a million people, big number. And I would just say, don't you want to be part of this kind of ministry? The Christmas season is the perfect time to deliver hope and joy to families in crisis. Through of Focus on the Family, you can continue to provide much needed help to folks like Amy when you do your ministry through Focus on the Family. So step up and donate today.

[John Fuller]

Donate and get your bundled copies of Imagine Heaven and Glimpse of God's glory when you call 800, the letter A and the word family 800-232-6459 or click the link in the show notes to donate and get those books. While you're at our website, Sign up for your free audio collection featuring this year's most popular Focus on the Family with Jim Daly episodes. You'll hear inspiring voices like Sheila Walsh, Dr. Gary Chapman, J. John, the late Dr. Gregory Jantz, and many, many more, offering encouragement to find healing, strengthen your marriage, parent with more purpose, and deepen your faith again. That's the free Best of 2025 collection of focus on the Family shows. Get yours today. It's our gift to you, and tomorrow you're gonna hear how understanding your childhood experiences really can make an impact on your marriage.

[Pam Farrell]

You know, reactivity. You know, we think of our nervous system going into fight or flight. I had to realize, hey, like, when I'm angry, like, what's underneath there? And usually there's an unmet need that you can link back to childhood.

[John Fuller]

Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

[Focus on the Family Counselor]

Chatgpt and AI can offer you ideas and attempt to give you answers, but it can't listen with compassion, pray with you, or guide you with wisdom shaped by faith. When life feels overwhelming, real human connection matters. At Focus on the Family, we believe in the power of professional health and biblical wisdom. That's why we offer a free confidential consultation with a caring Christian counselor to walk with you through life's struggles. Whether you're navigating challenges in marriage, parenting anxiety, grief or something else, our counselors are here to help. If you're hurting, don't wait. Hope is real and healing begins with a conversation. Request your free confidential consultation today. Call 1-800-A-FUSY. That's 1-800-232-6459 or visit focusonthefamily.com gethelp that's focusonthefamily.com GetHelp.