← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Loading summary
Transcript80 lines
- [00:01]
Announcer
God is at work and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Colson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit truthrising.com today. That's truthrising.com God is at work and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Colson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit truthrising.com today.
- [00:57]
Jim Daly
That's truthrising.com this program is sponsored by.
- [01:02]
Corey Pennypacker
Focus on the Family, a listener supported ministry helping families thrive in Christ.
- [01:10]
John Fuller
This is John Fuller and please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programs on a podcast, app or website.
- [01:23]
Corey Pennypacker
Get them involved in Bible to school, get them involved in a youth group and get them involved in church. You know, really foster those Christian friends, foster those Christian adults around them and you've got a strong Christian that can light up the world.
- [01:38]
John Fuller
Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we're going to hear about a rather unique ministry that is bringing the gospel of Christ to young children in public school. I'm John Fuller and thanks for joining us.
- [01:49]
Jim Daly
You know, John, one of the most amazing things about Jesus was his love for children. There was something special between children and the Lord. And I think part of it is children are just innocent, right? They don't know. They tell the truth. You're fat, you're skinny. I mean, kids just say the straightforward things. And I think the Lord saw that as just, you know, little truth tellers and their hearts are pure. And I just think the Lord had a heart for children. In fact, in Matthew 18, he said, Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Which has often made me think, how do children think that the Lord would make that statement? Right? If you act like a child, the kingdom of heaven is yours. And I think that's part of it, what I just said. You know, unfortunately, I think it's easy for parents to underestimate the value of their children and their ability to understand scripture and to apply biblical truth. And I think it starts at an early age. And our guest today is going to talk to us about how effective we can be as Christians helping our own children, but also children in public School to recognize their spiritual bent.
- [02:59]
John Fuller
Yeah, it's really exciting to talk about this. I think a lot of people don't know what you can really do in a public school. So we're very pleased to have Corey Pennypacker in the studio with us. She's the CEO of Bible to School and they equip communities to provide free Bible classes to elementary school kids during their public school day.
- [03:18]
Jim Daly
Man, that's amazing. Yeah, most of us are going, that's legal. Corey, welcome to Focus on the Family.
- [03:23]
Corey Pennypacker
Thank you for having.
- [03:25]
Jim Daly
Yeah. So let me ask you, that's legal?
- [03:27]
Corey Pennypacker
Yes, that is legal.
- [03:28]
Jim Daly
How does that work?
- [03:30]
Corey Pennypacker
Sure. It's called a release time court rulings. It's federal court rulings that say you can release. That's the word, release. Release kids from school, public school for religious class of their choice. It could be Muslim, could be Jewish. We are Bible to school with my organization. We are the non denominational Christian arm of that. And so, I mean, the Bible used to be a reader in school, you know, way back. And they took it out in the early 1900s. These release time rulings happened and they said, well, you know, kids aren't going to be getting religion anymore in school, so let's give that to the community and they can release them. And there's three things that make it legal federally all across the country and that is they have to be off site, they have to be parental permission and they can't cost the taxpayer any money. And so those three things, when that happens, you can do that in all 50 states.
- [04:25]
Jim Daly
No, that's terrific. And you know, again, that's opt in as we would. So the parents have to allow their kids to go do this. But all 50 states are required by law to do this. What's the limiting factor? Why isn't every school doing this?
- [04:40]
Corey Pennypacker
Well, I think it's a lot why I'm here today. People don't know about it. They don't know about it. And I appreciate you having me on because, yeah, you can do this. My organization has been doing this for over 45 years. And so it's really something. And there's other organizations around the country that have been doing it for 80 years, but the US supreme people ask me a lot. You know, was that ever challenged? You know, and in 1952 it was and the US Supreme Court upheld it. So it definitely is something you can do. Again, it has to be off site, parental permission and no tax dollars.
- [05:15]
Jim Daly
Yeah. So the ACLU hasn't been able to get that out of school. In terms of choices by the parents.
- [05:22]
Corey Pennypacker
Right. It's something the parents want.
- [05:24]
Jim Daly
Let me ask you this just to get this out of the way, because it's intriguing to me. I've thought, oh, maybe after I retire from focus, I'll get one started in Colorado Springs. But I want to make sure everybody knows that that's something you can do in your community. And there's so many things like this if we just did them. Every school would have that option if Christian stepped up and said, you know what, I'll start that volunteer program and I'll go do that. How did that start for you? You started as a volunteer at Bible.
- [05:51]
Corey Pennypacker
I did. I did. I started as a volunteer. Well, first of all, I was a children's ministry director. And when I left there, a friend asked me say, you gotta come see this, you gotta come see it. And I went and I'm like, wait a minute. I used to wait for kids to come to me and now I get to go to the kids where they are in the middle of the week, in the middle of a school day. And it's no muss, no fuss. And the kids come. And what's amazing is that with what we do, it's half the kids have no church home. And I saw that with a little boy, Gabriel. He grabbed my heart. He was a little blond, blue eyed little boy, curly hair. He lived with his grandmother. He was in third grade and he was in my small group. And he came week after week. He did not know anything about God before he came. And one day he accepted Christ as his savior in the large group part. And he comes barreling back to my table, big smile. And I said, gabriel, tell me about that. You accept Christ as your savior. And he said, yes, I did. And I said, tell me about that. And he said something I will never forget. I get choked up every time I talk about it. He said, I've always wanted to know how to get to heaven, but no one's ever told me.
- [07:07]
Jim Daly
And he's in third grade.
- [07:07]
Corey Pennypacker
Third grade. Third grade.
- [07:09]
Announcer
And I, there's some 70, 80 year.
- [07:11]
Jim Daly
Olds that ask that question.
- [07:12]
Corey Pennypacker
It is a definite, they don't know. Probably every week in Bible to school, kids say, who's God? I've never heard of him. Or they think Jesus is a swear word. It is definitely out of, I mean, 70% of the country doesn't go to church. So these kids aren't hearing it anywhere. I mean, we think of Little House in the Prairie and all those shows that used to have it all in There, it's definitely not. They're not seeing it anywhere.
- [07:40]
Jim Daly
You know, Corey, again I'm going to say that's our fault as the church because again, the law allows us to do this. But not every school has this. And that's a shame. We should be, as the Christian community, we should be engaged. There should be one or more eight, ten people here in Colorado Springs who are willing to do this for every school. I don't know how many schools, elementary schools. This is second to fifth grade, right?
- [08:03]
Corey Pennypacker
Yes.
- [08:04]
Jim Daly
What does that. Weekly? It's a weekly meeting. Just talk us through what the typical week might look like.
- [08:10]
Corey Pennypacker
Yeah, the volunteers get together, they set up the room near a church. It's a church off site within 10 minute walk or a 10 minute drive of the school. And then they go and get the kids and the kids, it's usually over lunch and recess. They bring their lunch with them and then at the church they're in small group tables and they come in, they have all their papers and their crinkling papers and all that. And then they have a large group lesson, 20 minutes of a large group lesson. And there's a think about it question. So it's Jonah and the whale. And your think about it question is, you know, how does God give second chances? And so they teach Jonah, it's all hands on, it gets inside of the belly of a whale. And I mean we do hands on things like vbs, like is science experiments. You act out the Bible story and then they go into small group and they say, you know, how did God give Jonah second chances? And then they say, well, how does God give you second chances? And they do this and then we go into worship time. So you have large groups, small group worship time. But that think about it question, that small group is very unique to Bible to school in the country. There's really not a lot of programs that do it this way. And I really believe that the gospel is transmitted through relationships. So you build those relationships every week. And so these kids have a safe place to ask spiritual questions. And that's what the church is about. I mean we know. I mean the kids want to know three things. They want to know where did I come from, what's my purpose and what happens after I die.
- [09:42]
Jim Daly
I think every human being asks that question or those three questions and probably more in that context. The overall program is about 30 minutes.
- [09:50]
Corey Pennypacker
Then an hour, an hour, one hour, one hour, one hour. And that includes travel time.
- [09:55]
Jim Daly
Yeah. So back and forth and hopefully it's a church that's nearby the school. Obviously correct in that context. Second to fifth grade. Why is that the critical stage and what you concentrate on?
- [10:07]
Corey Pennypacker
Well, I mean, Barna says this 63% of all Christians come to know Christ before the age of 14. So it's like a 4 to 14 window, they say. And that's when their actual brains are developing their morals and values. So you got clay that you're working with. They are wide open. You were just talking about. Kids say everything on their mind. Well, well, they are really processing this and learning this. And so it is the time for kids to accept Christ as their savior. We have one little boy. He said, I never knew God made me. He just couldn't even believe that there was somebody who made him and created him. And he just. These kids blossom and light up when they find out that God made them. God loves them. God has a plan and purpose for their life, and Jesus Christ died for their sins and they can be in heaven with him someday. And these are things that kids need to. I know that we're talking about depression and all that. There's a study called Hardwired to Connect. Dartmouth University did a study, it's a secular university that did this. And they said that kids are hardwired to connect socially, spiritually, and that that really helps them bring down that stress, bring down that anxiety. Kids are mind, body and soul. And when you don't really get to process that spiritual questions, then that really ups the anxiety. And they even that if kids are in a religious program like Bible to school is. Then they do better in school.
- [11:40]
Jim Daly
Yeah. All the data is showing that. That's again, why. That's so difficult to understand why adults who oppose faith battle this so strong in the courts, in public schools. Like, you really are concerned that a child might embrace God, believe they're created, and try to live a life that is full of joy, love, peace, goodness, kindness. Why do you fight that? Would you rather me be an alcohol drug addict or not know my identity? That's the counter argument, right? That somehow we're being pushed to do that. Let me ask you that question that I alluded to a moment ago. People do oppose this. I'm sure there's some teachers that are ideologically opposed to this. You know, not even on a political spectrum, but just in an ideological spectrum. They would oppose something like God. You know, do they come out of the woodwork on something like this and try to get.
- [12:38]
Corey Pennypacker
People ask me that a lot. How much pushback do you get? Honestly, it's more a pushback of they don't know the law. So honestly, even Christian school administrators, they don't know. And so that's again, another reason to get the word out that it can be done. And yes, there are some bad actors around that are going to go after you, but honestly, the law is on your side. We at Bible to School help you to stay in your legal lane. We know what you can. And, and so that's really what it is. It's about staying in your legal lane and kindly educating people.
- [13:15]
Jim Daly
Yeah. You know, we do something called Bring youg Bible to School. And it's the first Thursday of every October. It's coming October 2nd, I think a couple of years ago we had over a million kids participate, which is terrific. And we want to see that number continue to grow. It's certainly, it's one day out of the school year. We want kids to do this every day. And that's where you. It really connects and dovetails quite nicely. But we do the same thing. Working with Alliance Defending Freedom, they created a one sheet that kids can download and parents working with the kids can download to put in their backpack that day. And it happens. We get the reports, a school administrator or a teacher says you're not allowed to have that Bible on your table and they'll pull out the ADF one page legal sheet. And the way I've heard this go almost every time is they read it, the adult administrator or teacher reads it and goes, oh, okay, yeah, it seems like you have the legal right to do that. And it's just that one day, and it's during recess or free time that those wonderful children sit and read the Book of John with their friends. And, you know, it just works out that way. So we just need to do it as Christians, as Christian parents, encourage your kids to join. And people can go to the website and do that.
- [14:27]
John Fuller
Yeah. The Details are@focusonthefamily.com Broadcast or give us a call if you'd like the letter A in the Word family. We'd be happy for you to learn more about Bring youg Bible to School Day. And of course, we're enjoying the conversation so much because of that dovetail you mentioned, Jim, with Corey Pennypacker about her organization Bible to School. And they're active, I think, in four states and we'll get into that.
- [14:51]
Jim Daly
I'm sure we need all 50 states going.
- [14:53]
Corey Pennypacker
Yes, yes, I agree.
- [14:54]
John Fuller
We'll have details. We'll have details about.
- [14:56]
Jim Daly
That's my goal.
- [14:57]
John Fuller
We're going to have details about how you can do that. And Corey's organization as well@focusonthefamily.com broadcast.
- [15:04]
Jim Daly
And you know, Corrie, stories are so grabbing. You had a little girl who brought a notebook, I think, and she was judiciously taking notes and you talked to her. What happened with that little girl?
- [15:14]
Corey Pennypacker
Yeah, our program, like I said, is hands on, and we don't actually have notebooks, but she brought hers and she was writing and writing and writing. And then she went to her small group and she was writing and writing and writing. And finally her small group leader said, what are you doing? And she said, well, my dad doesn't know who God is and I want to be able to tell him so.
- [15:35]
Jim Daly
That's so sweet.
- [15:36]
Corey Pennypacker
I love how these kids just want not. You were saying about their faith, they want to know about God. They want to tell everybody they know about God. They bring their friends. And that's why I said 50 to 60% of the kids that come to Bible to school have no church home. And I think that I really believe that parents want good things for their kids and even if they're Christian or not Christian. And I know Dr. Dobson years ago said that, and I really grabbed onto that, that, you know, this is a they see and they sign them up. And so that's why we are hitting a target market that nobody else is hitting. These kids are not going to go to a church, but we can link them to a church. We had a parent survey done a couple years ago, and about 15% of our parents started going to church after they went to bioware school. This year, I'm proud to announce that only God, 18% of the parents. So it's going up. And I just really believe that this kind of program is an on ramp to church attendance.
- [16:38]
Jim Daly
Again, I want to say this because it's so obvious and maybe somebody's just jumped into the conversation, but yeah, following the Lord brings incredible fruit. Love, joy, peace, goodness, kindness, mercy, longsuffering. I mean, these are patience, I mean, wonderful attributes. And those who fight against that, it's ridiculous. And then those that enjoy the benefits of those fruit, it brings peace. God's shalom to the home.
- [17:06]
John Fuller
Cory, going back to family impact, you had indicated the story of Johnny really stood out because here's a boy who goes home and brings light and truth to his own family. Share that with us.
- [17:20]
Corey Pennypacker
Yeah, his mother told us that she was at the kitchen counter washing dishes and she was really, her home was struggling. And she looked up and she said, God help me. And just then Joni Came right behind her and said, mom, we need to go to church. We need Jesus. And she saw that as God's answer. They went to church. Not only did she reconnect to Lord herself, the rest of her family, mostly all of them, got saved. Yeah, yeah.
- [17:54]
Jim Daly
That's kind of what it's all about.
- [17:55]
Corey Pennypacker
Yeah. She said, he was relentless about going to church. We need to go to church. He's a great kid.
- [18:01]
Jim Daly
You know, my own wife Jean, in second grade, ironically, kind of the same zone that you concentrate on second graders to fifth graders. She was a second grader in Southern Cal. She went to release time and accepted Christ at that little event and never gave up. I mean, she was with the Lord and has been with the Lord ever since, which is phenomenal. And that's really the goal, you know, to help these children, especially in today's culture, to have something that's eternal, something they can hold onto, and again, something that brings such positive benefits into their lives. Earlier I mentioned of the problems in schools, the political and cultural agendas, et cetera, that are causing a lot of Christians to pull out of public schools. And when I think about it for myself, the parents that are saying, what should we do? Johnny, Maria, whomever, they're kindergarteners or third graders, and they're concerned about the ideological push, more Christians are pulling their children out of school. What is your observation of that? And, you know, everybody has to make that decision for themselves because you don't want to gamble with your children's hearts. But how do you see things?
- [19:16]
Corey Pennypacker
Well, I often tell my daughter in laws this, that they are the parents and they are the experts on their kids, on whether they should be homeschooled or whether to go to Christian school or whether to go to public school. But in reality, 87% of all Christian parents send their kids to public school. So I get asked this question, a lot of, you know, what do you do? How do you protect your kids from harmful cultural elements in the school system, in the public school system? And I answer that question and I kind of flip it and I say, how can you prepare your children? Because preparation is protection and things are going to come down the pike. I mean, you always should get on the school board. You always should be involved, know what your kids are learning, you should be involved. I was very involved. My husband and I were very involved public school parents. But if you're going to put them in public school, be involved and prepare them with the word of God. John 1:5. The light shines in the darkness and the Darkness has not overcome it. And so that whole preparation part of keeping the word of God in front of him, get them involved in Bible to school, get them involved in the youth group, get them involved in church, you know, really foster those Christian friends, foster those Christian adults around them. And you've got a strong Christian that can light up the world.
- [20:36]
John Fuller
You know, Jim, as Cory's talking, I'm thinking about parents who might feel ill equipped to help their children be alight because they're overwhelmed. And we've tried to address that in the documentary and all the ancillary materials with Truth Rising, which came out just a couple of weeks ago.
- [20:53]
Jim Daly
Yeah, Truth Rising is a terrific documentary. It's free. You can go to the Focus website and watch it. It's about 90 minutes. But in addition to that, there's a four part study done by John Stonestreet at Colson center, which is really helpful to address these core issues. But the key thing in Truth Rising, what we're trying to do is encourage Christians to engage because that's the change. And that's where we highlight four or five courageous people like Jack Phillips, who was the baker up in Denver that was taken to task, taken to court, taken to the Supreme Court to prove his right as a Christian to create artwork that fit with his faith. And also Chloe Cole, a detransitioner who is suing Blue Cross because she never received a negative statement from a doctor or psychiatrist that doing the sexual transition would be harmful to her. Now they're scrambling and they're backing up both in Europe and the United States to get out of doing that. The minor treatment of gender dysphoria. And man, that's a great thing that hospitals and others are beginning to not do that. But the point of the documentary is to encourage Christians to engage the culture and to be courageous. And what you're doing is kind of similar to that. And that's something, again, that we could all do in our towns, our cities, our little spots that we're in. We can go to the elementary school and create a volunteer program and get kids introduced to scripture. And that's what's so exciting about this. Your story could have fit in Truth Rising as someone who was busy, had their own lives, doing their own thing, their kids were grown and you're done. And yet you said, no, I'm going to engage these seconds and to fifth graders and show them the gospel and.
- [22:38]
Corey Pennypacker
We'Re going to equip people to do this all over the country.
- [22:41]
Jim Daly
How do we do that? How can somebody Listening today say, okay, I want to do this. I'm in Colorado, I'm in California, I'm wherever. How would they go about doing this?
- [22:51]
Corey Pennypacker
Well, they go to our website, BibleToSchool.com. that's BibleTheNumber2School.com and we will help them start a program. We will help them. There's a four step process.
- [23:04]
Jim Daly
So is it like in a box kind of thing? You can help us?
- [23:07]
Corey Pennypacker
Yes, yes. We have something called a membership toolbox. And you become a member of Bible to School. It's a four step process to become a member. And mainly what we do is help you build a team. We first help you build a team to become a member. And that team is gonna help you find the location. It's gonna help you with possible transportation. Those people, leaders in your community are gonna help you with finding recruiting volunteers like pastors. And you're gonna have business leaders that are gonna help you with make it as easy as possible for you. Get that team together. And then we have all the tools for you on that toolbox. We have over 300 tools. We have all the curriculum you need. We have live coaching for you. And I wish I had live coaching when I started. We were going through it, but live coaching and we have a website for them as well. So anything as you call plug and play, you can do this and we make it as easy as possible for that to happen.
- [24:06]
Jim Daly
Yeah. You know, for pastors, I know we have many pastors who listen and we have an outreach for pastors as well to help their families, to help their congregations. What's the benefit for pastors engaging Bible to School?
- [24:18]
Corey Pennypacker
Well, when you ever talk about people coming to your church, it's always, well, somebody invited me, somebody invited me. Well, let me tell you, when you get involved in Bible to School, you invite those children to your church. They're like, oh yeah, I'll come. There's VBS on ramp there. Just come and be in our church. It gets the kids in the church, first of all. And second of all, it exposes them to other Christians that say, come visit me in my church. And that's how kids get to church. But that's how it works. That's why I call it an on ramp to church attendance. And again, you're learning how to connect with a community. When a church partners with a local school, people pay attention and they really make a difference in the community. If you want to make a difference in your community, you go to the public school mission field and that's right in your Hometown.
- [25:08]
John Fuller
Yeah. I'm really pleased, Jim, that our church had an opportunity through a variety of circumstances to meet at a local school. And our team there was a core team of people that really engaged with the school. They made a job of reaching out to the school administrators and the faculty and just supporting and trying to be a light for Christ in that way. And you're encouraging all of us to look for opportunities to do that.
- [25:33]
Corey Pennypacker
And the other thing is that the churches work together. We're non denominational, so. So it's so cool. The body of Christ and all denominations working together for the kids.
- [25:41]
Jim Daly
Let's end with Colson's story. You had a student, Colson, what happened with his little observation about Bible to school.
- [25:49]
Corey Pennypacker
Colson went through our program and actually even led his friends to Christ. But he got into middle school and we interviewed him and he started his own Bible hour in his middle school.
- [26:01]
Jim Daly
He was an entrepreneur.
- [26:02]
Corey Pennypacker
He was amazing. He had almost 90. It was a worship service. He got everybody involved. And he said to me, he said, you know, I always thought before Bible to school, I didn't know. I always thought school was school and church was church. And I realized I can live my faith all week long.
- [26:18]
Jim Daly
Yeah.
- [26:18]
Corey Pennypacker
And that really is what we're trying.
- [26:19]
Jim Daly
To teach kids, Corey. And that's right at the heart of the message. I think the culture that doesn't believe want to silence us into no action, that what you believe is private. Do it at home, just don't bring it into the public square. And they're happy with that. But that's not what the Lord says.
- [26:35]
Corey Pennypacker
No.
- [26:36]
Jim Daly
Take the gospel to every end of the earth. Right. So every corner. So that's our charge. And so we need to be careful not to take the bait of being comfortable by being silent. And you do what you do and I'll do what I do. That's what's so great about Colson and that story. Let's take this into public school. It's already gone through the courts, it's completely legal. And let's help kids better understand how they were made and in whose image they were made. Isn't that a great opportunity?
- [27:04]
Corey Pennypacker
Yes. And you could be on the front lines of watching kids lives change, change and their families lives change. It's a beautiful thing.
- [27:11]
Jim Daly
You've said it so well. Bible to school, get engaged. If your community, and there's only four states that they're in right now. So if you're in a state that's not doing it, a city that's not doing it, do it nobody else is going to step up. So why not get involved? And let's see, all 50 states have a program like this where you can.
- [27:30]
Announcer
Take kids off the property of the.
- [27:33]
Jim Daly
School, take them to a local church, hopefully spend an hour with them talking about the Lord, and then get those little tykes back to school. I think it's wonderful and what a wonderful way for us who are older, already done the parenting thing to engage the culture and help it write itself because of spiritual awakening. And that's the way to do it. So get in touch with us. Corrie, thanks for being with us.
- [27:57]
Corey Pennypacker
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
- [27:58]
John Fuller
And we're going to have all the details about Corrie's organization, Bible to School, and your opportunity to begin an outreach in your community. Look for the details@focusonthefamily.com broadcast and we'll also have links to our own program, Bring youg Bible to school day. That's October 2nd. It's an opportunity for your kids to show the power of God's word in their hands and in their backpacks on their desks at school. You can also call us if you'd like. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word family. And we'd be happy to tell you more. And then of course, Jim described Truth rising and there's a 4 study that goes along with it. It's free. Both are available right now through our website. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [29:01]
Announcer
God is at work and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new document from Focus on the Family and the Colson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit truthrising.com today. That's truthrising.com.