Building an Emotionally Healthy Marriage (Part 2 of 2)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Episode: Building an Emotionally Healthy Marriage (Part 2 of 2)
Air Date: May 6, 2026
Guests: Ron and Nan Deal
Hosts: Jim Daly and John Fuller

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Episode Overview

This powerful and vulnerable episode continues a deeply honest conversation with Ron and Nan Deal about building an emotionally healthy marriage. The Deals, drawing from their personal struggles—including marital conflict, childhood wounds, devastating family loss, and addiction—share their journey toward healing, self-awareness, and a renewed relationship grounded in faith. Throughout, they provide hope and encouragement for couples struggling with unresolved pain, communication breakdowns, and the weight of grief.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Marriage Patterns: Old Cycles and the “Speck in Your Eye” Principle

• Theme: Couples often get stuck in destructive response patterns, failing to see their own faults first.
• Discussion:
  • Nan described the stagnation after 20 years of cycling through the same arguments, feeling: "it's either you or me or get us some help basically." (00:37)
  • Jim Daly referenced Jesus' teaching about the “log in your own eye”: "Who's closer to you than your spouse? ... We're so quick to see the other person's faults before we see our own." (01:19)
• Quote:
  • Jim Daly: “If you can just get your act together, we'd have a great marriage…” (02:03)

2. Personal Pain and Truth vs. “Truth”

• Theme: Old emotional triggers often relate to childhood wounds; learning to separate emotional reflex from actual truth is key.
• Ron’s Experience:
  • Ron explains his panic reaction stems from feeling “I'm not good enough,” leading him to interpret his wife's disappointment catastrophically.
  • Quote:
    • Ron Deal: “Unless I come to see what the capital T truth is ... Nan could be disappointed with me in any given moment. And it does not mean it's the end of our marriage ... God tells me my worth and value is in Jesus Christ.” (04:02–05:21)
  • Both Ron and Nan highlighted the importance of going "vertical" (to God) before addressing relationships horizontally.

3. Practical Example: Miscommunication and Changed Response

• Scenario: Ron missed Nan's phone calls; his old triggers flared, predicting conflict.
  • By pausing to reflect and challenge old scripts, both responded with calm instead of escalation.
  • Nan: “...it was more of a mindfulness in me of, he's changing, and you can change your response in this moment.” (08:05)
• Notable Quote:
  • Nan Deal: “I don't just assume the worst.” (09:11)

4. Grief and Loss: The Death of Their Son, Connor

• Context: The Deals lost their 12-year-old son to a sudden MRSA infection in 2009, after years of intentionally raising their children in faith.
• Nan’s Struggle: Total devastation and a feeling of spiritual abandonment led to a decade-long struggle with alcohol and prescription drugs as coping mechanisms.
  • “I poured myself into my boys. I feel like it was my identity ... And Connor and I had such a sweet and special relationship ... he was the glue.” (11:03–12:25)
• Ron’s Perspective: He found some peace sooner than Nan; struggled to support her while feeling unsafe and triggered himself.
• Addiction and Secrecy:
  • Nan: “...it was the enemy's way of isolating me. I truly was in bondage with it because there were multiple times I tried to get off of it and I had so much withdrawal that scared me.” (17:06–17:56)
• Spiritual Insight: Jim references John 10:10 about the enemy stealing, killing, and destroying, affirming Nan was “in bondage... completely isolated.” (17:56–18:38)

5. Recovery, Breaking the Cycle, and Turning Point

• Catalyst: The Covid pandemic stripped away support structures; after a bender and a harrowing confrontation with Ron, Nan hit rock bottom.
  • “I lay down on that mat and couldn’t get up ... I cried for two hours … I literally cried uncle. And I said, if you would have me, I want to do it your way.” (20:31–21:49)
  • This surrender marked the real start of her healing and recovery journey.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Nan Deal: “March 17th ... I will remember it forever. Because that was really when it happened.” (22:48–22:52)
• Faith and Healing:
  • She felt “the peace that surpasses all understanding ... as if he had taken his hands and completely wiped me off. And I got off that mat and I was like, I am going to do it your way.” (21:51–22:18)
• Ongoing Process: Nan joined a 12-step group, Ron and Nan continue therapy/support, and emphasize ongoing, daily self-management.

6. Pain Cycle vs. Peace Cycle

• Concept:
  • Pain cycle: Old triggers (for Nan: abandonment) leading to destructive responses (escape, withdrawal).
  • Peace cycle: Facing pain with God’s help, moving toward connection and humility instead of retreat.
• Quote:
  • Ron Deal: “The pain cycle for her was in abandonment, run and escape. The peace cycle for her is no. With God, I can face my pain. I can move toward Ron rather than run away from Ron.” (23:51)

7. Encouragement & Hope

• Openness about their brokenness is meant to equip and encourage others who may feel alone or ashamed in their struggles.
  • Jim Daly: “That vulnerability is good because people look at Christian people and go, they're perfect. They're not broken like me. And we're all broken. And that's the beauty of it.” (24:46)
• The Deals' message: There is always hope, even after deep wounding and cycles of pain.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Spiritual and Relational Growth:
  • “We are far from perfect. We are still working on us every single day. There is a humility decision to be made.” – Ron Deal (24:33)
• On God's Timing and Surrender:
  • “I really feel as if he was like, I've been waiting for this all your life, for you to let go of the reins. Yay. Okay, now we can do this.” – Nan Deal (22:56)
• On Marriage Recovery:
  • Ron: “What for a second or two, I thought was about to be a disaster turned out to be absolutely nothing, in part due to both of us doing our work, dealing with the log in our own eyes.” (09:16)

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Timestamps for Major Sections

• Painful Marriage Patterns & Childhood Wounds – 00:37–04:02
• ‘Truth’ vs. Emotional Reflexes – 04:02–06:44
• Live Example: Missed Calls and Changed Responses – 06:44–09:48
• The Grief of Losing a Child – 09:48–13:58
• Nan’s Descent into Addiction and Isolation – 13:58–19:00
• The Turning Point: Covid, Rock Bottom, and Spiritual Surrender – 19:00–22:18
• Recovery, the Peace Cycle, and Ongoing Healing – 22:18–25:49

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Tone and Style

• The episode is emotionally raw, deeply honest, and hopeful.
• The hosts and guests speak with warmth, humility, and a commitment to biblical truth.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Triggers and marital conflict often trace back to early-life wounds and require personal reflection, honesty, and self-management.
• Healing and lasting change come when both partners take responsibility for their “side of the street,” move toward God, and interrupt old cycles with new, faith-rooted behaviors.
• Deep pain and failure, even addiction, are not the end—God can bring hope and new patterns from the darkest places.
• Vulnerability and ongoing community (therapy, 12-step, church) are vital for recovery and marital health.

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For Further Help

• Book: Ron and Nan Deal, The Mindful Marriage: Create Your Best Relationship Through Understanding and Managing Yourself
• Support: Focus on the Family’s Hope Restored Marriage Intensives and Christian counseling services
• Contact: 1-800-A-FAMILY or see the show notes for resources

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“With God, I can face my pain. I can move toward Ron rather than run away from Ron. I'm working on me. She's working on her. We have a totally different dynamic between us ... We are still working on us every single day. There is a humility decision to be made.”
— Ron Deal (23:51–24:33)

Transcript

[Ron Deal]

Is your marriage struggling? Communication breaking down? Trust fading? Conflict that never seems to resolve? There's still hope. Hope Restored Marriage Intensives by Focus on the Family help couples step away from daily life and focus fully on rebuilding their relationship. And right now, through the Marriage Investment Initiative, Hope Restored is investing $1,000 toward marriage intensives. Visit hoperestored.com marriage investment.

[Nan Deal]

And it was just the same thing, and it just kept cycling and I kept responding and he kept responding and it just was, what were we, 20 something years in? And it was like, it's either you or me or get us some help basically.

[Jim Daly]

Because, I mean, that's pretty dramatic.

[Nan Deal]

Yeah, he's a therapist. I'm like, obviously you can't fix this, so get us some help to help fix this.

[John Fuller]

Well, that's Nan Deal describing some of the pain points in her marriage to her husband Ron. And they're with us again today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly to unpack a little more and to help us understand how we can get to a better spot in our own marriages. I'm John Fuller, and thanks for joining us.

[Jim Daly]

You know, John, I think after yesterday's program, it made me think about the speck in the eye. And I've never really thought about that very verse in the context of marriage, but it's glaringly obvious. I mean, who's closer to you than your spouse? So that speck in the eye analogy that Jesus gave us in Matthew, which is look at that log in your own eye before you look at the speck in your spouse's eye, I'm saying it that way for that application. But man, isn't that so true that we're so quick to see the other person's faults before we see our own? Which is what he's saying.

[John Fuller]

Right? And I don't know why, but we tend to think it's, I'm fine, I'm fine. It's them, they're the problem.

[Jim Daly]

How about this? If you can just get your act together, we'd have a great marriage. I mean, I think at some point in our 39 years, I think I may have thought of that. I don't want to admit it, but we've had a great discussion last time with Ron and Nan Deal, and we're going to continue that discussion today. And we covered concepts about how we trigger one another. And I did confess at that point that I'm really good at pushing those buttons. And that's probably true for many married couples. We just don't get off that craziness and we keep doing that. When she hurts me, I push that button. That's how I get my reward. And it's not a smart way to do your marriage. And we're going to continue today to talk about how to have a better marriage by loving one another.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. And the book that forms the basis for our conversation is the the mindful Create your best relationship through understanding and managing yourself. And of course, we have copies of that book here at the ministry.

[Jim Daly]

Ron and Nan, welcome back to Focus on the Family. Good to have you for day two.

[Nan Deal]

Thank you.

[Jim Daly]

I couldn't ask this question because of time constraints last time, but I do want to pick up with this one because in the book, you relate to those feelings we have and the way that we misinterpret communication from our spouse based on what we learned reflexively as a child, whatever that might be. And the book goes into great detail for people to be able to self analyze and say, yeah, that's me. This is why I react when you push me. I feel insecure. I feel abandoned, as you mentioned last time, Nan. But in that regard, it's not true. What we're experiencing is not the truth. And that is so critical. I mean, the scripture is full of that example, right? Know what is true.

[Ron Deal]

Exactly.

[Jim Daly]

And we know that through knowing scripture, knowing the Lord, loving the Lord. But tie that in a bow for me.

[Ron Deal]

What I would say is there is a truth to me. My big pain point is I'm not good enough. I'm inadequate. And I'm trying to outrun that label in my own head and in my wife's head and anybody else's head 24 7. Unless I come to see what the capital T truth is. There's a little truth that sometimes I do feel inadequate. Sometimes I've really messed up. And whether it was childhood or marriage, now, yeah, that's true. But what does that mean? Does that add up to I'm not okay as a person, that my worth and value is gone? No, it doesn't. I'll never forget, guys, the day I realized, here's that capital T truth, God whispering to me. Nan could be disappointed with me in any given moment. And it does not mean it's the end of our marriage. It doesn't mean it's the end of me. It doesn't mean that that adds up to my worth and value and that I could actually admit that I was disappointing to her and it wasn't going to be the end of the world. Now, I know that sounds really funny to say out loud. But for some reason, somewhere in my history, I kind of decided that's what's at stake here. And as long as I live with that hypersensitivity, then any disappointment is a monumental moment, and I am going to fight against it as much as I can. Well, that just brings out the worst in me, and things spin in all the wrong directions. So for me to be able to go, oh, no, no. What is the truth? God tells me my worth and value is in Jesus Christ. That's number one. We always say go vertical before you try to do the horizontal so you remember who you are in Christ. Okay with that. I also know Nan loves me, and she can be upset or irritated in any given moment. That's not the end of us. We'll get through this. I may have something to learn. I can reflect on that. We'll find our way through. Just relax. Like all of that sounds simple, but when your brain neurologically sets off on a pathway of doing what it knows to do, reacting how it knows to react, it is not simple to slow that thing down and go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's the truth? And how do I live out of it?

[Jim Daly]

Ron, for us, let me speak from the husband's side, because this is what I know best. But there was a day for you where you missed a couple of Nan's phone calls, and you started to fret like, she's going to be upset. Has any other guy ever been in that place? All our hands go, yes. And we're running in our heads, like, I know she's going to accuse me of being distracted. Fill in those blanks. And then Nan, tell us, and this is healthy, how you processed it and where your head was at.

[Ron Deal]

Yeah. So if anybody who saw and listened yesterday will know that me overworking is part of the things that I do to cope with feeling inadequate. So when I miss those calls, I'm thinking, oh, here we go. She's going to be mad. She's going to walk in a door, she's going to unload, and I need to get prepared for that. And then I remembered my four steps, and I said, wait a minute. Wait a minute. That's the old Ron who's fretting and anxious and upset and already guarded and already defending myself before she's ever even come back. What's the truth? Well, the truth is maybe I may have made a mistake. Maybe I missed, or. The truth is she's not gonna leave me, even if she is disappointed. So calm down, Ron. Let's give her. And here's another truth. Nan's growing. We're changing. Our usness is different than it used to be. Let's give this a chance to see how it plays out and be more calm about it. Sure enough, she walked in the door,

[Jim Daly]

and let's give it to Nan.

[Nan Deal]

And I was like, hey, she was nice, sweet.

[Jim Daly]

Well, not only that, but you had earbuds in, right? And you weren't that concerned about Ron's day.

[Nan Deal]

I wasn't that concerned. And, you know, my triggers are abandonment. And so not him picking up or even answering a text or a call is, oh, he's too busy. Everything else is more important than me.

[Jim Daly]

And you didn't experience it.

[Nan Deal]

I did not experience it because I'd been working on me and being mindful of me. You know, I can see now, that day we went into Dr. Hartgray's office and I saw him with a sentence, humble Ron. I really, in that moment, thought, yay, he has fixed him. When in fact, there was so much in me that I needed to trust God with and I needed to work on me. And so in that moment, walking in was after months of, wait a minute, he could be busy. He could be really doing something very important. And was it really important what you needed? And if you really needed him, you could have said, I've fallen and I can't get up. I mean, you could have given him a different message, but it's more of a mindfulness in me of, he's changing, and you can change your response in this moment.

[Ron Deal]

Yeah, guys, you got to hear that. She comes in.

[Nan Deal]

I don't just assume the worst.

[Ron Deal]

I was sitting in peace.

[Nan Deal]

Yes.

[Ron Deal]

What for a second or two, I thought was about to be a disaster turned out to be absolutely nothing, in part due to both of us doing our work, dealing with the log in our own eyes. So when we finally got together, I was. She walked by, said hello, had a smile. I'm like, wow, this is amazing. And a few minutes later, I just checked in, hey, sorry I missed your calls. Was that anything? And she was like, yeah, no, it wasn't a big deal, but, yeah, we can talk about that. And so it didn't have to be about abandonment and inadequacy because we didn't let it go there.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. And I think, you know, here you are working on things. This is good. And you're moving forward, and you have these examples of where it's not the same pattern, it's a better new pattern, and you're racking up victories in your relationship. Nan you then started to experience something with your son, both of you, but it really devastated you, as it should, obviously. But what happened with Connor and what was your reaction over the long haul?

[Nan Deal]

Well, we saw Terry in 2007 and our son died of a MRSA staph infection after being sick for just 10 days, which came out of nowhere. He was 12.

[Jim Daly]

And that was in 0809. That was 09.

[Nan Deal]

So truly the Lord's provision, being in Terri's office and working with him for two years to set a stage for. Then the rug just was completely pulled out from underneath us. And then at that point, Terri was just our grief counselor. And I'm so very grateful for the time he spent with us, just caring and hearing our grief. He was so kind with it, wasn't he?

[Ron Deal]

Absolutely.

[Nan Deal]

But in the beginning, Ron and I grieved very much the same. And he never left me. It was. We were thrust together. We had the same sorrows, we had the same anger, we had the same doubt and disillusionment with faith in God and what has just happened. And we were saying why together. And then about four years in, I saw him journeying to some resolution, so to speak, as he was reading Job. And he had some, not just it's over, but some peace about it and some surrender with his grief. And I was still just feeling so abandoned, so abandoned, so lost. But you have to understand, I poured myself into my boys. I feel like it was my identity. And Connor and I had such a sweet and special relationship. He was the one that had my back. All three of my boys adore me, but Connor just had my back.

[Jim Daly]

You had something special.

[Nan Deal]

It truly was.

[Jim Daly]

That's good.

[Nan Deal]

And he, he was the glue in between the boys too. So there was not only my loss and Ron's loss, but it just completely devastated our family and our other two children. So our youngest is sleeping beside our bed for two years. Our oldest is 14 at the time. And who wants to be the 14 year old brother who has a. A brother that's gone? I mean, going to middle school like that, middle school's hard enough. And so navigating all of that and just feeling like, where are you God in this? And as you said, I feel like my faith wasn't as strong as it is now. And so there were just avenues and ways with numbing with alcohol and prescription medication. That was my way of coping for about a decade.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, I mean, that's big. And again, I so appreciate that because people are there. You know, these are good Christian people. But it. That's probably one of the most difficult things somebody can experience in life. My brother. My oldest brother Mike and his wife had that similar loss with cancer with their son. But it happens. And just that, I mean, it's like, Lord, you know, you start doing the equation right. I've lived my life for you. Sure. Why would you take my son or my daughter from me? And it's not a healthy place to be. We don't have those answers.

[Nan Deal]

And I feel like I was doing it well because also, this is the prideful part of me. I feel like I was doing it right because I didn't have that growing up. So I'm going to do it right. And you know what? We were great of anything in our marriage. Parenting was great. We just connected and did it together in tandem. It was just a beautiful thing. And I just feel like we had this Norman Rockwell painting with this gold. We truly had a golden retriever. And it just. The boys would hug each other and kiss each other before they go to bed at night. And Connor was reading to us out of his chapter book, and things were beautiful like that with the boys. And it. You know, we were on the cusp of the preteen, so it was. Everything was still really just sweet. It was a sweet season. And it was like. And we prayed for them and prayed about them, and then it was like. And we were taking them to church. I feel like, you know, I was checking off all those boxes. Lord, I was doing A and B and C, and really. And he was a healthy kid. It came out of nowhere, and just. We never saw it coming.

[Jim Daly]

Let me. There's two questions here, I think. One, Ron, is for you seeing Nan suffer in that way and like she described, you're coming to this place of some resolution. You're never going to be completely resolved on that with the Lord, but you're getting to a place saying, okay, Lord, I feel like I'm through it. I'm moving forward. But Nan is in trouble. I mean, drinking and even prescription drugs, like you said, for about 10 years. What are you thinking at that point?

[Ron Deal]

Yeah, it was really difficult. Safety in a relationship is everything. And the more she numbed, the less safe things got in our relationship. Right. So some of those old triggers are now super sensitive. And I'm trying to manage me and trying to figure out how to love and be in connection with her and be supportive and at the same time, not liking how she would react and respond. And by the way, I didn't even fully understand the depth of it. Like she would wait until I would go to sleep and then she'd get out a second bottle of wine. And so by day things were sort of okay. You know, it's just by night things got really difficult.

[Nan Deal]

Yeah, it was hard in his defense. And I was lying to everybody. I was lying to all my physicians to keep the prescription medication going. A lot of that kind of had the same effect as alcohol, you know, just to numb the feelings, the anxiety medication. And then it was always at night. And as soon as he'd go to bed and he's a deep, deep sleeper and, you know, we're empty nests. My boys are off to college and living their lives. And it really took on a life of its own. It truly took on a life of its own. And I lied to a lot of people as I've come out with this. I've had dear friends going, why didn't you tell me? My sister, sister in law, family friend, you know, and I feel like it was the enemy's way of isolating me.

[Jim Daly]

Absolutely.

[Nan Deal]

I truly was in bondage with it because there were multiple times I tried to get off of it and I had so much withdrawal that scared me. But also he would be whispering to me all the time. Like I'd think maybe I should go to rehab. And I remember thinking, yeah, go to rehab. And your husband's just started this huge ministry, You've moved to Little Rock. And here you go. Oh, you'll ruin that for him. I mean, the lies of the enemy. And I tell you all of that from childhood, me taking care of things, myself, taking care of self with marriage. And then that was my way of taking care of this grief. And it just became chains.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. You know that scripture, John 10:10? Some people may not know it. Christians who read the Word know this one. This was the first scripture that a family who gave me a Bible when I was 15 wrote in there, John 10:10. And I read it, you know, it's a little freaky scaredy, you know that the thief, Satan the thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. That's an example of it. Have that isolation, you know, and that's exactly what he does each and every day we live. He's trying to do that to us as five year olds, as 15 year olds, as 25 year olds, all the way up to 70, 80 year olds. It's his mission every day to take us out.

[Nan Deal]

It is.

[Jim Daly]

I need to ask that question. How did this come right? Cause people are maybe even in that spot. We did a broadcast not long ago, with a woman who was in a very similar situation as you, alcohol became her night beverage to cope. How did you rectify that? How did you come out of that dark place?

[Nan Deal]

It was Covid.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, okay.

[Nan Deal]

Covid was so good to me. Ron had gone on a five day working trip and had caveated it with, hey, I'm going to be going here and here and here, and I may not be accessible to you. Which triggered the abandonment and the pain. I went on a five day bender. He was gone for five days. He comes home. I'm teaching at the time, and we are sequestered. Like the kids are saying, Mrs. Deal, will I see you? And I'm like, well, I don't know. And, you know, school shut down anytime he traveled. Boy, I had somebody for lunch and breakfast. And Nan would take it on herself to just have things in place so I wasn't alone.

[Ron Deal]

And Covid stripped all of that away.

[Nan Deal]

Covid stripped everything. The restaurants were closing, friends were saying, I can't come for the weekend. And he was gone. He came in, and our country, our world was shutting down. I had no job. I had no anything. He gets up, he comes home, and he had a look on his face of. I mean, I had hit bottom. I'd gone on a bender that weekend. Probably 52 calls and so many terrible texts that I sent him, unbeknownst to me, not knowing that I had done it. Very angry, bitter. And he comes home and he goes, who are you and what is happening? And I knew in that moment that I was probably losing him. But I had already looked in the mirror and said, I don't even know who you are.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, you're losing yourself.

[Nan Deal]

I had already lost myself. And we get up that Monday and he's like, hey, I gotta get on a zoom and figure this zoom thing out. And this pandemic thing with my team, which kind of was triggering, but I was like, okay, I had nothing. What are you gonna do with kindergarteners at that point? I mean, they're just saying, just stay at home. I have nothing. My boys are gone. Ron's in there. He's gone. It is a pandemic. And I am completely isolated, but I go into our guest bedroom and I think, oh, I'll do yoga. That might help. And I lay down on that mat and couldn't get up off from that mat for about two hours. It was my bottom. I cried for two hours like I used to cry over my son. I was at the end of me, and I cried out to the Lord. And I said, I cannot do this anymore. I have nothing. I literally cried uncle. And I said, if. If you would have me, I want to do it your way.

[Jim Daly]

Wow. Yeah.

[Nan Deal]

And I felt that peace that surpasses all understanding that day. It was as if he had taken his hands and completely wiped me off. And I got off that mat and I was like, I am going to do it your way. And I did not stop the medication right away. But that night I had no alcohol and I had not one withdrawal.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. You know, Nan, the scripture in Psalms that says he's close to the broken hearted and saves those crushed spirit. The right question for us is, run there. Why don't we run there? Because that's where you're going to meet the Lord. Even in that pain, I mean, your tears are real. But isn't it amazing of like Romans 8, 28, the good that God brought from your bottoming out?

[Nan Deal]

Yes.

[Jim Daly]

I mean, it is a humiliating thing

[Nan Deal]

I'm going to do for that day.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah.

[Nan Deal]

March 17th.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. I mean, remember it forever.

[Nan Deal]

Forever.

[Jim Daly]

Because that was really when it happened.

[Nan Deal]

And it was. I really feel as if he was like, I've been waiting for this all your life, for you to let go of the reins. Yay. Okay, now we can do this. And that moment that Terri said, if you'll allow God to heal all of the brokenness, it'll be the most beautiful thing that will come out of you. I get it now. I get it now. And I want to bring God glory because I know there are other people,

[Jim Daly]

like, oh, you're talking to them right now. And people are in that place hurting in one way or the other. You know, there's many more things to say here. Ron. I think one of the things to tie a bow around this, a concept of the peace cycle. We talked about the pain cycle. I think this would be a good place to talk about the peace cycle, the pain cycle. And then people need to get the book right.

[Ron Deal]

The pain cycle for her was in abandonment, run and escape. The peace cycle for her is no. With God. I can face my pain. I can move toward Ron rather than run away from Ron. I'm working on me. She's working on her. We have a totally different dynamic between us. We are far from perfect. We are still working on us every single day. There is a humility decision to be made. And yet it just brought us to a totally different place. I will comment that was day one of her recovery. She got into a 12 step group, kept going. We work with parents who have Lost a child group. Like, we are still giving, receiving, exploring, learning. Every day we get triggered. Every day we have an opportunity to deal with the log in our own eye and manage us. And man, the Lord is doing some really amazing things.

[Jim Daly]

I think it's great. Nan, you're my hero. No, seriously. You know, it chokes me up. That vulnerability is good because people, you know, people look at Christian people and go, they're perfect. They're not broken like me. And we're all broken. And that's the beauty of it. But not everybody realizes their brokenness. So thank you. Really, thank you so much for that open heartedness. And I'm just praying that if you're in that spot, you don't hold back. Get in touch with us. We're here. We've got counselors who can help you. We've got a heap of resources and including Ron and Nan's book, the Mindful Marriage, create your best relationship through understanding and managing yourself. There's an idea. How do we get control of these things that shaped us as children, mostly in the wrong way, and then reshape them for a godly way? And that's the broad concept here. Live your life in a Christlike way and great to do that in your marriage. So again, thanks for being with us.

[Ron Deal]

Thank you.

[Nan Deal]

Thank you for having us.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. There are so many ways. Focus on the Family is here for you in your marriage. Give us a call. 800, the letter A in the word family. And we can schedule a time for you to speak with one of our caring Christian counselors. We'd be happy to tell you about our Hope Restored Marriage intensives. We also host marriage getaway weekends for you and your spouse if you just want to reconnect and renew your commitment to each other. And of course, we have Ron and Nan's book and we'd be happy to tell you more about that. We'll send a copy when you make a donation of any amount. It all begins with that call to 800, the letter A in the word family or click the link in the show notes.

[Jim Daly]

And John, here's a comment from a woman named Joy who recently attended Hope Restored with her husband. Joy said, over the years, I have let my heart become hardened into something I didn't recognize or want to be. But this intensive helped me show my heart and my feelings to my spouse and give our 30 year marriage a chance. I am leaving here with renewed hope for our marriage and I believe the Lord worked miracles in our hearts.

[John Fuller]

I love hearing that. That's an amazing transformation.

[Jim Daly]

It is. And that's what we're looking for. We hear miracle stories like that literally every week. And that's how your generosity is impacting couples and transforming families. Think of keeping a family together, what that does for them as a couple, but what does that do for their children? And I want to invite you to do ministry through FOCUS on THE Family today. Give generously. It's a lifetime investment into God's kingdom.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. And our number again, 800, the letter A in the word family. Or you can donate when you click the link in the show notes. And coming up tomorrow, Rhonda Stoppe has some powerful lessons about motherhood from moms in the Bible.

[Nan Deal]

That's such an important season in our children's lives to pour into them. And I can only imagine Jochebed nursing that baby, singing songs to him of deliverance, songs of Yahweh, and imprinting on him a love for her God, even in the short seasons she had him.

[John Fuller]

Thanks for listening to FOCUS ON THE FAMILY with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ,

[Nan Deal]

Your

[Ron Deal]

marriage can be healed.

[Jim Daly]

A Hope Restored Marriage Intensive from FOCUS

[Nan Deal]

on the FAMILY can transform you and

[Ron Deal]

your spouse's relationship in just a few days.

[Nan Deal]

We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage. Discover [e-mail] that's hoperestored.com.