← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
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- [00:01]
Jim Daly
God is at work and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Colson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising starting September 5th and find out how you can be a part of the change and become an agent of restoration. Sign up@truthrising.com that's truthrising.com.
- [00:39]
Eliza Huey
So we want to hold onto the fact that trauma does not get the last word. Trauma is not more powerful than our God who raised our Savior from the dead. If he can do that, he can overcome this circumstance.
- [00:52]
John Fuller
Insights from Eliza Huey and she's back with us today on FOCUS on the Family with Jim Daly. She'll be sharing more about how to support those who are struggling with trauma. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
- [01:04]
Jim Daly
Eliza has so much practical insight into showing compassion to people who have dealt with trauma. Yesterday we talked about processing trauma from a Christian perspective. So I would really recommend you to go back and listen to that if you missed it. Here at Focus on the Family, we provide resources for families that include both biblical truth and practical counseling tools. We have podcasts, articles, books, and so much more to help you navigate day to day challenges that crop up in your family. But we also want to offer help to those of you dealing with particularly heavy issues like trauma from your past or from the past of someone you love. And today we're going to talk about showing empathy to others and provide some tools for healing from trauma.
- [01:50]
John Fuller
And our guest, as we said, is Eliza Huey. She's the director of counseling at McLean Bible Church and teaches counseling classes for Metro Baltimore Seminary. We're talking about one of her books today called Trauma A Christian's Guide to Providing Help and Care. And you can get details about that book and all the resources we have here at FOCUS to help you. And when you call 800-THE LETTER A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459 or stop by the show notes, we've got the links right there for you.
- [02:24]
Jim Daly
Eliza, it's good to have you back. Thanks for sticking with us.
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Eliza Huey
Absolutely. It's a great conversation, you know, it really is.
- [02:29]
Jim Daly
And that's why we wanted to continue today because there's so much in this people that experience trauma. Let me start with a story. A friend of mine, mine years ago, I'll just call him Jack. That's not his real name, but he confessed to me something that had happened. He was a type A driven business guy and you know Everything was in order. He was the leader of the sales team. He always did well. High achiever. And one day we were just talking, and he said, you know, the reason, I think. And I've never shared this with anybody, kind of what you said last time, I think the reason I'm like, this is when I was a little boy, my neighbor molested me. And every day I get up thinking, how do I become clean through working hard? That's significant. I mean, obviously, and there's so much in that. But again, behavior, even like that, very productive behavior, very rewarded behavior. But he recognized the root of. Of where this was coming from in multiple marriages, because he just burned his spouses out. You know, he just. With all the type A stuff. Right. And, you know, again, that's where you can gently or even aggressively say, hey, I think it'd be good for you to get help.
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Eliza Huey
Yeah. Yeah.
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Jim Daly
What would you do in that situation?
- [03:51]
Eliza Huey
Well, and just even hearing that, that's, again, evidence that you were a safe place in that moment, or he wouldn't have shared that with you at all. I guarantee you he wouldn't have shared that if you hadn't developed some kind of a relationship with him. He felt safe. And that's what we want to do as believers. We want to have relationships because we can live in the chronic superficial, and people aren't helped in that space.
- [04:14]
Jim Daly
Well, let me just say, to get that, you have to be authentic.
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Eliza Huey
You do.
- [04:17]
Jim Daly
You have to share things that didn't go well in your life. You have to be real. You have to be approachable. And those aren't things. It's not like a play. We're not acting. This needs to be who we are. And then people are drawn to that.
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Eliza Huey
They are.
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Jim Daly
Now I feel comfortable knowing you're not perfect.
- [04:34]
Eliza Huey
Yeah.
- [04:35]
Jim Daly
Because people think as Christians sometimes, oh, you must be perfect. Oh, my goodness. That is not the plan. We are sinners, saved by grace, trying to do better. That's why, you know. But I think that idea of approachability and authenticity are so critical.
- [04:50]
Eliza Huey
They are, because they go against. Remember what I said, that you get traumatized because you were overwhelmed, you felt powerless, and you felt alone. Those three things are really important. And what you're doing in that moment is you're basically communicating. You are not alone. And I think that's one thing that we can do as a church, besides being authentic, besides being willing to be vulnerable, is to actually create a space where we talk about these things. So if your church never mentions the word trauma from the pulpit, that would be a good thing to be able to do, to become more trauma aware is let's actually say these words. Let's actually talk about the things that are in our church pews.
- [05:28]
Jim Daly
Let me ask this, do you think, and there's a couple things I'm going to put in here, questions that you can answer. But we often feel uncomfortable in the Christian community talking about things that sound like they're outside of the Christian faith, like trauma induced. You know, that's a psychological situation and we don't really want to bring psychology into this. But again, my position is these are things that are complementary. The scripture informs us about trauma. I mean, there's plenty of trauma in the scripture.
- [05:59]
Eliza Huey
Like let's just start with Genesis, right?
- [06:03]
Jim Daly
But the point of that is don't let worldly observations taint us from God's ability to use those tools that he created. He created the brain, emotions, body, soul, spirit. This is his invention. And human beings are going to see patterns that we start to collect and look at and identify and bring healing and help to, hopefully. But as Christians, we need to be comfortable that, hey, these tools are here, God's created them, we can identify them and use them as well for his kingdom and to draw people in. So don't be afraid of those terms and things. But in that context, how would you define trauma? Let's start with that big question.
- [06:42]
Eliza Huey
Yeah, no, that's a good one. So essentially it's an emotional response to a terrible event, but that's too simplistic in a lot of ways. But that is what it is. That's what we're talking about. And again, when we talk about trauma, we're talking about an event. And this is from the samhsa, which is a well known organization that deals a lot with mental health and addiction. And they say that it is an event or a series of events that is considered life threatening to a person. Now, when I say life threatening, I don't necessarily think I'm going to die, but sometimes, yes, it also could mean something very precious to me is being threatened. And so it could be that my voice, my ability to make a decision in this is being threatened. And so it's sort of like my ability to live my life is being threatened or somebody else that I love. Because a lot of times you see this, sadly in abuse, the abusers will hurt people that the person that they're abusing loves, whether that's a pet or a child or a family member. And so when you see somebody else whose life is threatened, that can also be it. But it has. The key is that it has lasting adverse effects on you. And this is what the world says. So just listen to this. They say it has lasting adverse effects on us physically, emotionally, socially and spiritually. So the secular world, the clinical world, is saying it has spiritual impact. In fact, Judith Herman, who wrote really kind of a seminal work on trauma, trauma and recovery, she's really given us a lot of understanding in the clinical world on it. But she says, essentially these are my words. But she says trauma makes us theologians. She says it calls into question those core foundational beliefs of our faith. That's my paraphrase of what she says, but she's really kind of saying there that it's going to make you a theologian. That's whether you're identifying as a Christian or not. You're going to have these existential questions about why is this happening? And so doesn't that set the church up to be an excellent place to speak into these things, rather than being afraid of them and saying we can't talk about that.
- [08:43]
Jim Daly
I mean, this is what we should be about. Noticing people's pain and being able to deliver a gospel centric answer or input. And we may not always have the answer.
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Eliza Huey
I like that answer or input. It may not always be an answer. It might just be input. That's so good in that way.
- [09:00]
Jim Daly
Let me ask you this, because gradation of trauma, I'm sure we all have an internal perspective on that. So you mentioned last time that one person's response to a very similar circumstance will be different with another person. Resiliency is what screams at me when you talk about that. So a person that has greater resiliency may go through a traumatic event. But you know what? This happens in life. And I'm gonna get up tomorrow, I'm gonna keep moving forward. Pretty healthy, they might be. One might say, not looking deep enough maybe, but it's generally pretty healthy to be able to get up and go. I tend to be more like that. But another person, a more sensitive person is what I have found. Somebody who's emotionally sensitive can have that, and it's catastrophic. You know, I can't just keep moving forward. So we kind of create this gradation of trauma. How do we manage that? Like what? Serious trauma versus, you know, that's part of life. And you're gonna. And teenagers.
- [10:07]
Eliza Huey
Oh, wow.
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Jim Daly
And maybe even things are gonna be experiencing this all the time. Did anybody ever have pimples on their face? That was like the end of the world, right? I Can't go to school today. Look at all these zits. But I mean, not to, you know, be too humorous with that, but that is true. That's like trauma Central as a 15 year old.
- [10:28]
Eliza Huey
Yeah. And I think so let me go back to something that we talked about last time. Where I talked about, I actually said there were four things. Overwhelm, powerlessness, the alone. But I didn't give you the fourth one. And the fourth one actually applies to what you're talking about now. And I share this cautiously. And so I share this thinking, you know, let's just hold this as a side thing, but you're touching on it. And that last one is propensity. That there are some people who have more propensity towards trauma. And I think we actually have to be aware of that. I don't always share that with people because then they can think, well, if I went through this, I'm probably gonna have trauma next time I go through something. And that's not true, but there is some truth, and we see that through different statistics and so forth, that if you've gone through something pretty catastrophic and then you go through another thing, the chances of you being traumatized is greater if you haven't had a safe place to process it, if you haven't had the people, the time, the space that you need to process it. And so we see this a lot with what's called complex trauma, where, and this is mostly in children, where something happened over and over and over again, that if you took it one of those things separately, it would not traumatize them. But it's every day repeatedly being told, you're not loved, you're not cared for, you're not important, over and over and over, then it becomes traumatizing to them. And so it's important to understand that the one time where maybe somebody says at school, like, oh, you look stupid with that pimple on your face or whatever, you look weird, that's probably gonna be a bad day, but it's not gonna be traumatizing. But if every day that child goes to school and somebody is telling them over and over and over again, then it becomes more traumatizing.
- [12:11]
Jim Daly
You know, in that regard it's interesting. I hadn't thought of that. But you think of the dad, and again, I'll be stereotypical and someone's going to say, it's not always dads that do that. I get that. I'm just trying to say this is typically dads one that says, I'm going to toughen up My kid by saying things like, get up. Come on. That's not a wound. Don't even touch it. Don't cry. I mean, you're hearing it. And I think that may swing in the other direction, too, where a mom is helping a daughter, she thinks by being critical, and that is not helpful. I mean, you've got to understand a. Where is that coming from in you to want to do that? To toughen my kid up by demoralizing him and demeaning him, as if that's the formula to lifting someone up. That's the first false premise. But then what are better things to do in a parenting context that you want to say? You know, hon, I feel that. I see that. I understand that. I had the same thing happen to me when I was a freshman. I mean, those are the things.
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Eliza Huey
You're totally answering it. Absolutely. Yes.
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Jim Daly
But that's the point, right? Have empathy.
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Eliza Huey
Empathy. Empathy and compassion. I think there's a lot of times as parents, we can overwhelmed with what our kids think are traumatizing or traumatic, and it can be easy to not respond very compassionately. Now, I will say there's a time to be able to say, like, this is hard because it's hard. And I'll walk with you through the hard, but it's not gonna get easy. It's gonna be hard. And that's part of life. But I do think it's that balance. And really what we're looking at is, is this situation really attacking the person. Like, the personhood is so fragile in those early years.
- [13:50]
Jim Daly
Identity, oh, so huge.
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Eliza Huey
And so we always wa. Pointing them towards that. They have an identity that's offered to them in Jesus. And for them to be able to build that identity on that, because it's unshakable.
- [14:01]
Jim Daly
You had a story in the book about someone you called Jake, who was a college student who kind of lived this. So I think this is a good spot to bring his experience up. What happened to Jake?
- [14:11]
Eliza Huey
Yeah, well, Jake had a pretty. And again, not his real name, kind of a composite of a couple of people, just so we say that out front. But he had a pretty traumatic situation happen to him where he was sexually assaulted. And in that experience, he really withdrew. And I would say in that experience, his parents were a key part of the healing process. But he began to learn that, first of all, we are not in a hurry to process this very big trauma. And that's something that is so key that you can give somebody who has been traumatized, you can give them patience. I'm not in a rush. You don't have to be in a rush either, because think about a major traumatizing situation like that. It happened in an instant, really quick. There was no warning to that. Well, that's going to feel very much like what's going to happen to me next through the rest of their life. And if you start talking to them about that trauma, they're going to feel that anxiety of, are you going to rush me into something that I'm not ready to do? And so I think that's a big key, is just being able to say, how do we patiently, compassionately walk with them and say, I'm here in this to go at the pace that you need.
- [15:20]
Jim Daly
Eliza, let me be vulnerable here in Aria. And I think it does demonstrate these two situations. And you can speak to it. I think I'm learning from it. But my wife has talked on this broadcast with me very bravely about her two brothers who committed suicide. And it brings tears to my eyes because for me, I did not want to sit there. You know, we got. And at some point, I don't know if it was three months after her second brother had committed suicide, I kind of said, we gotta pick up ourselves and go, we can't sit here. And I remember she said to me, and this actually scared me, but she said, I'm not like you. I have to sit here in this grief. And I went, whoa. I don't know if I could do that, you know? And it touches me. You can tell. But being an orphan kid, I learned I don't want to sit there. I don't want to be in grief. I mean, those are two examples of doing it. Well, it's sitting in the grief, like Gene and then my kind of escapism, wow, that I don't want to be there.
- [16:25]
Eliza Huey
Well, you really nailed it. And I appreciate you being so vulnerable because as you were saying that. Yes, that thought of. Because you've obviously done some work. You've done some work to be able to say, I don't want to sit here in the grief. That's what's going on when I'm saying, let's move on, sweetie. Let's go forward. You're actually recognizing that that's that flea that kept you alive when you 5 years old. It was important for you to do that at five. And we can thank God that he gave you the. The way that he designed us in that moment is, hey, you gotta survive, little guy. This is what you're gonna do to survive. But now, not being five anymore. You don't have to run. And you've got a wife there who's saying, I actually need you to be here with me in that.
- [17:04]
Jim Daly
Yeah.
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Eliza Huey
Wow. And the value of the two of you healing together, that's huge. That's huge.
- [17:13]
Jim Daly
Yeah.
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John Fuller
Eliza, there's so much here. And.
- [17:16]
Eliza Huey
Wow.
- [17:17]
John Fuller
We have moments here in the studio where we just have to kind of pause. Really related, though, to this moment is the acronym peace, which you offer as a great set of tools for all of us to kind of deal with either ourselves or somebody else that we know. And we want to help them walk through some of this.
- [17:35]
Eliza Huey
Yeah. Yeah. So just like I have the acronym trauma to help us understand trauma, we wanna understand peace as well, because that is what we wanna hold out to people. We wanna hold out peace. That's not just peace for the sake of peace, but peace that is rooted in the prince of peace, the one who said, I've come that you would have life and that you would have it abundantly that he gives peace that surpasses all understanding. And so the first thing that I encourage people is to think about what does it look like for us to be patient, to be patient with the person who's struggling. And we've talked about that already on the episode here today, and just how we don't wanna rush people. And you even just. That reminded me when you shared what you just shared. We want to be willing to say, I'm gonna be okay if I sit here with you in this. Not because I want to, but because you're with me. And we're looking not to the circumstance, we're looking beyond the circumstance, to the one who gives us hope. I Love Lamentations 3, where it says this, I call to mind, and therefore I have hope. The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness. But let's not forget what that verse starts with. This I call to mind. We actually have to call to mind the things that are truly going to give us peace. Because a lot of things just come to mind. In fact, the antiverse to that would be this. I let fill my mind, and therefore I am in despair. Right. You know, all the things that are around me are falling apart or whatever, however that's going to look. But we need to call that those truths to mind and have that peace infused into our spirit. The E stands for education. And this is really helpful and even just sharing your story, being able to know that that was okay for that five year old to fight for survival. That was not just okay, that was courageous for that five year old to fight for survival. And look where you are today. God used that story to have you right here today, which is amazing. So we want to educate people and say there was nothing wrong with you run when you were five or there was nothing wrong with you feeling like you couldn't connect with relationships because of all these broken trust relationships that you've had or this catastrophic event that you went through. It's not sinful to be distrusting when you've had broken trust and let them know that it's part of a response that kept you alive. Now, we don't want to stay there because otherwise you'll just run every time something gets uncomfortable. But so you educate them and say this is what was a natural response based on what your circumstance provided for you. And then the next one is so peace. P E A is we want to acknowledge the work that they are doing, even if the work is right there. First time you just told me your story, wow, that had to be so courageous. And thank you for trusting me with that. I'm guessing that had to be hard. And just acknowledge, acknowledge the work that they have done. If you've seen them working through trying to trust in small ways or trying to move towards healthier responses to those triggers, acknowledge that. And then the C is one that I just feel very strongly about. And you guys embrace that so well. Here at Focus Counseling, we need other people to help us. I have an injured elbow that I actually talk about in the book, and I still work through physical therapy. And recently I was in an appointment and he was moving my arm in ways that it wouldn't move on its own. And my body has been told enough times, don't move it that far, it's gonna hurt. And so my body's trying to protect myself. Just like in regular emotional trauma. It does the same thing. I'm trying to prot. But it was trying to protect it, but it was actually causing more harm because it wasn't going to the full extension. And so he was having to move my arm in ways that I couldn't. And I said to him, he's not a believer, but he got what I was saying. I said to him, it's interesting, isn't it, that I need you to help me heal. And he's like, yeah, actually you do. And I said, it's very similar to the work that we do in counseling that we need other people to help us Heal. I'm only gonna go so far in my story unless somebody's willing to ask that other question or to say, I'm here. I'm gonna walk with you in this. So counseling's a big one. You guys do that great here. There's so many resources that Focus provides and I'm so thankful for that. And then of course, the last one would be the last e. Encourage. Tell them what you see happening. Tell them the little changes, even if they're teeny tiny. You know what I noticed when I gave you a hug this time? You didn't pull away. Like sometimes you do.
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Jim Daly
Yeah. Something that simple, that's huge.
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Eliza Huey
I'm so grateful. So encourage them. Encourage them that they're doing the hard.
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Jim Daly
A hard one in the book and it's going to be right here at the end, which is pretty difficult. But you also had a client named Lucy. Again, I'm sure you've changed the name, who endured pretty severe trauma. Describe what happened with her, what the post trauma left her and how she began to work through those issues.
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Eliza Huey
Yeah. The thing about Lucy is when we have situations that are really difficult and we've talked about some even on this suicide, but oftentimes when I see the most difficult are ones that have like sexual abuse or sexual assault. There is so much that happens to a person physiologically in those situations we've talked about before that we have to address the body because the body was with us. And I often will say you have to start where the wound began. And with sexual assault or things along those lines, you really do have to recognize that that body is going to be still remembering what happened to them. And I think the thing that is we've already mentioned this, but I think it's worth saying again, are we willing to ask the questions and being patient with the responses and being able to say, okay, I'm okay with whatever is said or not said in this conversation in a way that sets the tone, sets the pace. Because especially when we think about which is often a common trauma is things like rape and so forth. When we have situations like that, there was no agency. And I will say in churches sometimes we can actually say, this is the care we have available for you. Churches or even ministries. This is the care we have for you. You have to kind of go through this process. But I think we have to be a lot more flexible when we have more severe traumas in being able to understand that some people are not going to be ready for that. So let them question. We've talked about that before. Let them have those questions about God, about themselves, and be able to be there, just absorb those things and walk with them through it.
- [24:14]
Jim Daly
Good advice. And again, more of that story's in the book and people can get that, I think, right at the end here. The last question is just how, again, your admonishment, your Christian admonishment to churchgoing believers to help those around you to be able to identify pain and kind of what Jesus did. Right?
- [24:36]
Eliza Huey
Yeah.
- [24:36]
Jim Daly
He went about helping people, asking questions and then healing and taking care of and giving spiritual insight into everyday life. Right. Everyday trauma. What advice at the end here would you have for the hopefully 2 million or so Christian listeners and viewers? What do you say to them?
- [24:57]
Eliza Huey
Well, one of the things that I hold out to people, which is the truth that I hold to in all situations, but specifically with trauma, trauma can feel so identifying. It can feel like this is always gonna be my life or this is always gonna be my loved one's life. They're always going to be shaped by their circumstance. And that is not what the Bible teaches. And so we wanna hold onto the fact that trauma does not get the last word. Trauma is not more powerful than our God, who raised our Savior from the dead. If he can do that, he can overcome this circumstance. Now, I will tell you, and I think it's fair to say that we read in Revelations that says that he will wipe away every tear. Well, that's actually in heaven when we see that he wipes away every tear. So I call them last day tears. There are some tears that do last this lifetime. That doesn't mean they're as strong as they were at the beginning. But when I look back on it, I still will say when I much like the story that you so graciously shared today, it still brings tears to my eyes. Even though we've walked through a lot of healing, but I know that God will wipe away every tear. And then the tears will not be tears of pain or sorrow, regret or hurt. Those tears will be tears of joy because we will see him and we will be like him, fully redeemed, fully healed, fully glorified. So trauma does not get the last word for your story or your loved one's story.
- [26:25]
Jim Daly
That is so well said, Eliza. Thanks for being with us and what a great book. Trauma A Christian's Guide to Providing Help and Care. Who shouldn't get a copy of this? Just put your hand up and we won't send it to you. But if you touched by this, if you are saying, yes, I need to better understand this, get ahold of us. And if you can make a gift of any amount like we often do, monthly or one time gift, we'll send the book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. We are a Christian ministry, so if you can't afford that, call us, get ahold of us. We'll send it to you free and we'll just hope that others will cover the cost of that. It's really our heart to make sure you're equipped to move forward in your journey, in your walk with the Lord, to become stronger, healthier, better in yourself and then also being able to help those around you.
- [27:17]
John Fuller
Yeah, get ahold of this book. Trauma Aware. We can tell you more about connecting with one of our counselors and scheduling a call back so they can have an over the phone consultation with you. There's a lot of help at our website and the link is in the show notes. Well, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daisy Daily. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [27:53]
Eliza Huey
Your marriage can be redeemed even if the fights seem constant, even if there's been an affair, even if you haven't felt close in years, no matter how deep the wounds are, are you can take a step toward healing them with a hope Restored Marriage Intensive. Our biblically based counseling will help you find the root of your problems and face challenges together. We'll talk with you, pray with you and help you find out which program will work best. Call us at 1-866-875-2915.