← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
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- [00:01]
Jim Daly
God is at work, and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Colson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit truthrising.com today. That's truthrising.com the following program is sponsored by Focus on the Family and is supported by the prayers and financial gifts of wonderful friends like you.
- [00:38]
Hi, this is Jim Daly with Focus on the Family. Today I'm asking you to stand courageously for truths in a way we've never asked before. This past weekend, thousands honored Charlie Kirk, a husband, father, and follower of Christ who live with courage and conviction. That same spirit beats at the heart of Truth Rising, a film that tells the stories of brave believers who choose conviction over comfort in the face of cultural pressure. Because the message of the film so closely reflects Charlie's mission to live a life grounded in truth, we're dedicating its release on X to his memory. We need you to join us right now. If you have an X account, search for Focus on the Family and share the film with everyone you know. Let's make Truth Rising not just a movie, but, but a movement.
- [01:30]
John Fuller
This is John Fuller, and please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programs on a podcast, app or website.
- [01:37]
Dr. Gary Chapman
When I was willing to ask these three questions, my marriage began to change. Simple questions. Number one, honey, what could I do to help you? Question number two, how could I make your life easier? Question number three, how could I be a better husband? When I was willing to ask those questions, she was willing to give me answers.
- [01:57]
John Fuller
Dr. Gary Chapman is back with us today on Focus on the Family with Jen Daly, offering some practical ways that you can improve your marriage relationship. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
- [02:08]
Jim Daly
John, last time we had a great conversation on basic stuff, you know, how we treat one another in marriage, and I don't know if you were convicted. I was sitting there going, I should know this stuff. But, you know, whether it's how you do the dishes, which we talked about, or how you throw your laundry on the floor, which is a problem I've suffered from for a long time, you know, but just good stuff on how to serve your spouse. And, you know, we do that with friends. We do that in our vocation. We want to do well at work, and we serve those that we're employed by, let's say. But man, applying that in your Marriage should be job one. And Gary Chapman, our guest, brought that to a fine point and it was something he experienced. If you missed the conversation last time, go to the website, you can download it there. You can get the app for your smartphone and listen to the entire library at Focus on the Family. And I'm looking forward to talking with Gary again today.
- [03:01]
John Fuller
And he is of course a best selling author, well known for his love languages books and he's written a variety of others as well. And today we're talking about the title, A Simple guide for a Better Marriage. Quick, practical insights every couple needs to thrive. And Jim, I was tracking with you. There's so much good stuff here. It is, so much applicable information. And we'd like to encourage you to get a copy of the book from us here at the ministry. Stop by focusonthefamily.com broadcast to get yours.
- [03:32]
Jim Daly
Gary, welcome back. It was a fun discussion last time. Thank you for that.
- [03:36]
Dr. Gary Chapman
Well, thank you. I'm glad to be back with you.
- [03:38]
Jim Daly
You do deliver great content, especially in this area of marriage. Let's pick it up there. I think we have a very contract based culture. We just learn to do that. Keep your receipts and take something back. And you did. Then if, then, if you do this, then I will behave this way. And then we take that right into marriage. Kind of that contract orientation rather than what God is expecting in that covenant relationship. Most of us as Christians may not even know the distinction. Talk about contract versus covenant.
- [04:15]
Dr. Gary Chapman
Yeah, I think our culture is a contract culture. And there's nothing wrong with contracts. You know, you can drive this car if you pay the monthly bill, you know, Right. Nothing wrong with contracts. We make them in our culture all the time. But I think when we take marriage in that, with that attitude and many people do, you know, I'm in this for you to make me happy. You make me happy. I'm here. Many of the divorces that take place in our country is because a person gets to the place where they feel like, you're not meeting my needs, you're not making me happy, you're not loving me, then I'm out of here. It's a contract. I'm here for you to make me happy. I'm here for you to meet my needs. If you don't meet my needs, then I'm gone. The Bible is not a contract mentality. It is a covenant relationship. First of all, a covenant is always made for the benefit of the other person. God made a covenant with Noah and saved his whole family. God made a Covenant with Abraham, he promised, it's a decision we make for the benefit of the other person. Now, I admit most people do not enter marriage when they are standing there at the altar. I'm in this thing to make you happy and meet your needs and give myself to serve you the rest of my life. Even though we use that language in sickness and in health, that's the language of covenant. So long as we both shall live, that's the language of covenant. So the covenant is made for the benefit of the other person, and it's lived out. I'm in this relationship to enrich your life. Whatever I can do to help you become the person that God wants you to become, that's what I want to do. And if we both have that idea of a covenant relationship and the covenants are made for a lifetime, they're not made. I'm with you and I'm into this. You see the whole framework today in American culture, where many people are living together before they get married, the concept is, I'm going to try this out, right? And most of them don't get married because in trying it out, they. They have the normal things they would have if they were married. But now they just bail out because I'm not going to stay here and be unhappy in this relationship. So they bail out and go from one person to another person. They're never going to find ultimate fulfillment in a marriage. The divorce rate in second marriages is higher than first marriages. Obviously, the answer is not running and finding somebody else. The answer is learning. And so when we have the covenant concept that we are committed to each other for better or for worse, and if it gets worse, we're going to make it better with God's help, we're going to turn it in a positive direction. And that's why reading books like this, going to marriage conferences, getting counseling, all those things are there available to help us turn it in the right direction.
- [07:07]
Jim Daly
And Gary, you have counseled probably tens of thousands of couples during your career. And in that respect, I think it's baffling to a degree. I get it. But especially couples that it's just a wearing down over time that, you know, I've just fallen out of love. I just don't feel like we have that magic anymore. However you want to describe it, I'm tired of picking up your messes or whatever. I think it's right to talk to that marriage right now. Somebody listening. I'm sure there's going to be one or many couples that are in that spot. And to your point, I remember reading a University of Chicago study, and I'm not sure how they did this, but they took two cohorts, two groups, all of them having marital difficulty. But they convinced one group of 300 or so to go for counseling, continue to fight for their marriage. And that was part of the agreement in the research. So they did. And the other group they encouraged to go through with the divorce. I mean, think of that. So, you know, just give up. And so they watched these 300 couples on this side and 300 couples on that side. Five years later, they followed up with them. 85% of the couples that stuck with it were glad they did, were happier than they were five years ago, but were so positive about the fact that they stayed together. Ironically, the same number, 85% that divorced, felt they had made a mistake not fighting for their marriage. So that really gets down to about 15% on that side that probably were going to get divorced no matter what. But isn't that interesting that 85% of those that divorced said they should have fought for their first marriage, and they brought the same garbage into their second marriage and third and fourth. And it just isn't the answer to find somebody new.
- [08:58]
Dr. Gary Chapman
You're exactly right. I've had many people in my office who had been divorced and remarried and were having struggles in their second marriage, but I've had them not normally in the presence of the other person, but often when it was just the two of us. Say, you know, if I had read your book on the love languages, I probably would still be married to my first spouse.
- [09:17]
Jim Daly
Right.
- [09:18]
Dr. Gary Chapman
You know, they're looking back and realizing what they're learning some things now that they wish they had learned earlier in the relationship. So I think, yeah, and what I. What I try to emphasize is this. I'm empathetic with people who are in marriages that are struggling. I mean, I'm certainly empathetic because I've been there. But here's the thing. We typically start in the wrong place if you want to have a better marriage. Where do we start? Most of us, by nature, start by trying to get our spouse to change some things.
- [09:48]
Jim Daly
That would be so easy.
- [09:50]
Dr. Gary Chapman
I know. They would just change. They would just change this. They would just change this. Jesus had a different idea. He said, first get the plank out of your own eye, and then you can see more clearly to help your spouse get the speck out of their eye. Yes, it would be nice if your spouse would change some things, but the place to start is not trying to get Them to change the place to start. I think as a Christian, you would say to God, lord, you know what I'm married to and you know where we are in this marriage. And you, you know, I don't have positive feelings for them. And you know, if they would just change some things, I would think things would be better. But right now I want to ask you, where am I failing in this marriage? It's a prayer God will answer. It's a biblical prayer. David prayed that prayer. And so if we start where God told us to start and ask God to show us where we're failing, and they can be little things or big things, write them down and then confess them to God and accept his forgiveness because Christ has paid for those things, then go to your spouse and say, I've been thinking about us. In fact, the other night I actually asked God to show me where I have been failing you. I know I've been on your case a lot, but I asked God to show me where I've been failing. And he gave me a pretty good list. And if you're open to it, I would like to share these with you and ask if you could forgive me for these things. Well, when I've shared that idea with couples, first of all, they're asking, well, if I do that, you say they'll come back in three weeks and confess their sins. I don't know. I don't even know that they will forgive you. But I'll tell you this, they'll walk away thinking, wow, I can't believe this. For three years they've been telling me how bad I am. They actually came and asked me to forgive them for stuff. God can use your behavior to touch their hearts. I can't guarantee you that they will all turn around. But I'm telling you, that's where Jesus said to start. You know, I had one lady say to me, she said, doc Chapman, I hear what you're saying. She said, but what if your husband really is the problem?
- [12:14]
Jim Daly
I guess that's a fair question.
- [12:16]
Dr. Gary Chapman
And I said to her, well, okay, let's assume he's 95% of the problem. That would only leave 5% for you. I said, you wouldn't say you're perfect? No, no, no. She said, no one's perfect. I said, okay, you're just 5%. Ask God to show you your 5%.
- [12:31]
Jim Daly
Yeah, I would imagine you've observed this, but I think a person that asks the three week question, I mean, it's almost again like that if then kind of comment right If I do apologize, then when will they apologize to me? It's probably a non starter because you already know. That's showing you their hand, it's tipping their hand to say, what I'm really after is for them to apologize to me. And I will feign the apology. I mean, they're not going to even know that. That's their motivation. But you hear it as a counselor on the other side of the desk, don't you?
- [13:06]
Dr. Gary Chapman
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- [13:08]
Jim Daly
And what do you say to that person when you call them out?
- [13:12]
Dr. Gary Chapman
We cannot manipulate another person. What we want to do is love them. And they say, well, I don't have any. I don't love them. I understand you don't have any love feelings. In the Bible, love doesn't start with a feeling. It starts with a way of thinking, an attitude. Now I said God loves your spouse and you're married to them. You're in the best place of anyone on earth to communicate God's love to them. Romans, chapter 5 and verse 5. The love of God is poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. So you just say to God, I don't have any love feelings for them, but I know you love them. So I'm opening my heart, you pour your love into me, and I love them. And then if you know their love language, that whole concept, start expressing love in their love language. You've apologized to them, now started loving them. And I'm telling you, if they don't turn around in six months, you can look God in the face. You can look yourself in the mirror and know you've done the most powerful thing you could do to try to stimulate growth in your marriage. Then you can apply tough love. Then you can say, honey, I don't know how you feel, but I feel like the nice six months I have really been loving you. And it appears to me you really don't care about me or our marriage. And so I decided that I'm going to move in with my mother for a while. I'm not leaving you, I'm not divorcing you. But I'm just going to. I'm just going to move out because I don't think I'm helping you by loving you and all the way I've done. But if you want to go with me me for counseling, I'm open for counseling. Or if they have a real severe problem, if you're willing to deal with that and you get counseling for that, then I'll go with you for counseling. You know the problem, Jim, is people apply Tough love before they ever do tender love. And so if you just, you just go in one day and say, okay, I'm just sick and tired and da, da, da, da, and I'm out of here, they're thinking, good ribbons. I'm tired of all you yelling at me and screaming at me anyway. But if you do an apology and then you try tender love for several months, we can't make them change, but we can influence them. And that's the most powerful influence you can have.
- [15:21]
Jim Daly
That's so true.
- [15:22]
John Fuller
Yeah. Great insights today from Dr. Gary Chapman on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. He's touching on some of the concepts in his book A Simple Guide for a Better, Quick, Practical Insights Every couple Needs to thrive. Get a copy of the book from us here@focusonthefamily.com Broadcast. And let me just remind you about an exclusive offer. And today is the last day that we can do this. We're inviting people to make a monthly pledge of $30 or more. And when you sign up and join the friends of FOCUS on the Family team, we're going to say thanks by sending a FOCUS on the Family with Jim Daly travel mug. It's a metal tumbler. It's great. It's what we use here in the studio. And we also have a small bag of Jim's special blend coff. That's a fun way for us to say thank you for supporting the ministry on a monthly basis. And you can stop by the website for the details.
- [16:17]
Jim Daly
Gary, let me ask you. Steadfast love. The term steadfast seems to repeat itself in scripture as well. We could all conjure up what that might mean, especially if you played sports. You know, that's the goal line stance. You know, they're not going to score and I'm going to be steadfast. That's kind of an athletic application. But what is the scripture mean by steadfast love?
- [16:41]
Dr. Gary Chapman
I think it means that we love the other person regardless of what they do, the way God loves us no matter what we do. Now, because he loves us, he lets us suffer the consequences when we do wrong. And because he loves us, he will discipline us because we're his children. His discipline comes out of his love. So if we have children, we discipline them because we love them. So steadfast love means that whether they're doing what we think they ought to be doing or whether they're doing something we think they shouldn't be doing, we still love them. I often apply this not only in marriage, but also like to adult children who are making decisions that break the heart of their parents. And I'm facing a lot of that in these days from. From parents who. Just saying, Dr. Samuel, we just found out this or this or this about our adult child, and it's just breaking our hearts. And what are we going to do? What did we do wrong? And first of all, I say, don't assume that you did something wrong, because adults are free to make their decisions. God gives us freedom. We have to give the freedom to our adult children that God gives us. So if they're making wrong decisions, you can't make them do right. But you can say, I want you to know, though, even though my heart is broken with the lifestyle you're living, but I want you to know I love you. I will always love you, and I will always be here for you. And I hope we can have a relationship together because I love you. In spite of the decisions you're making, again, you give them that freedom. But you're doing exactly what the prodigal son's father did. He didn't try to make him come back. He kept the farm going so that when he came back, there was a place to come back to. You keep your marriage going, and then you give that adult child a chance to come back. And if they come back, you stand with open arms.
- [18:37]
Jim Daly
Yeah, that's good. Gary, you describe counseling a woman in the book. I think she had been married 15 years. Now, this is going to connect with everybody. And I tested this with Gene this morning. A woman particularly, who feels like, I've been married 15 years and I feel, like, totally disconnected from my husband. We don't talk about meaningful things. Anybody heard this before? And you make a recommendation there that I again, I mentioned it to Gene early this morning, reading the book, reading the prep for the program about applying your senses to this. Like something you've seen, something you've heard, something you've tasted. Jean just lit up with that. She thought that was brilliant, by the way. And this idea that you apply your senses to these things. As a husband, I'm just. I am caricaturing here a bit. And the shoe could be on the other foot, but, you know, so that it's not news, weather, and sports, which is where guys typically like to hang out, but you apply that, describe how you would apply that and how you help this woman and her husband, it sounds like, feel better connected to each other.
- [19:47]
Dr. Gary Chapman
Yeah, I think there are a lot of couples that just aren't talking much at all. You know, they're just each living their own life, and they're cordial. It's just that there's. There's no exchange. They don't know what the other person's thinking, feeling, or whatever. So again, having some kind of plan can be extremely helpful. One plan, for example, would be to say, why don't we each share with the other three things that happen in our lives today and how we feel about them. They can be positive things or negative things. They can be little things or big things. They can be honey. One of the thing I did is I stopped by on the way home and put gas in the car. And she said, well, how'd you feel about that? He said, to be honest, I felt angry. I looked at the price and I felt angry. You know, it's just sharing life. Is it? But we've got an organized way to do it. And then you mentioned that another one is. Is thinking in terms of, honey, tell me something that you tasted today. That or yesterday or didn't last week. What's the best thing you've tasted today? Who's ever asked that question? You know, ice cream. Yeah. Yeah. Or what did, what, what did you see today that really encouraged you? Yeah. Or what did you see today that really made you sad? Or what did you hear today that encouraged you? Somebody said something that encouraged you. Or what do you remember today that you said that might encourage somebody else? Just again, thinking of the five senses, you know?
- [21:07]
Jim Daly
Yeah.
- [21:07]
Dr. Gary Chapman
Or did anybody give you a pat on the back today? Anybody touch you with a high five today? Again, we don't think in terms of talking about those kind of things, but it's an easy way to talk with each other about things that you wouldn't normally do. Those two ideas can help couples who are just kind of in a. A pattern, you know, the same old thing every day. Every day. They're not really talking with each other about much of anything. It's an easy way to break out of that habit.
- [21:38]
Jim Daly
Hey, speak to the importance of a healthy balance between our work and our marriage. I mean, that can be so tough for both husbands and wives now because for the most part, we're two income families for a lot of people. But how then in that busyness, how much more so you need to prioritize time like this and open communication and dialogue because everything's pulling at you in every direction.
- [22:04]
Dr. Gary Chapman
I think that's a challenge that almost all couples face in our culture today is how do we balance work and family? And I don't think there's a magic Wand to be weighed. There's no one answer for every couple that works because our work schedules are so different and all that sort of thing. But I do think we have to ask ourselves the question, what is the quality of our marriage and what is the quality of my interacting with my children as opposed to the time I spend at work? And some of us will likely make some huge changes if we understood what really is happening. I was at a funeral not long ago and the father had died and I had never met his son. He was a 25 year old son. And after the funeral I was just talking to him and I said, how'd you and your father get along? And he said, I never knew my father. I said, what do you mean? He said he had a job that he left on Monday morning and he came home on Friday night. And then all day Saturday he played golf with his buddies. And then Sunday morning he slept till noon and then he watched football and so forth. On Sunday afternoon he said he never came to any of my games. He never talked to me about anything much at all. He said, I just never knew him. And tears came to my eyes when I walked away. And I thought if that father had known how that son was going to feel through all those years, he may have made some pretty radical changes in order to spend more time with his son, you know, So I just think we have to constantly evaluate our work style, our work pattern and our family. Because if we don't make time for our family and our marriage, we will regret it down the road.
- [23:50]
Jim Daly
I agree so wholeheartedly. Regrets are not good. And you think about that with parenting. We always talk about the do over, but man, try to do it the first time in such a way that you don't have those regrets. Be ahead of the curve. Gary, right at the end here, I want to ask you this, A story that you had in the book about visiting two different homes, one meager, the other lavish. And what did the Lord speak to your heart about those two different homes?
- [24:20]
Dr. Gary Chapman
Yeah, well, I was visiting both on the same night, visitation from our church. And as you said, one was very, very meager, you know, just a house, very meager and all. But the couple were so into each other and shared their life with me and shared with each other and it was just obvious to me they just, they had a great relationship and the other home was just unbelievably lavish, you know, but in my contact with them and talking with them, it was obvious to me they weren't very connected. They weren't very into each other. They didn't have much of a quality of a marriage. And when I walked out of there, I just said to myself and to God, I said, God, if ever I have to choose between one of those, please give me the log cabin. Wow. And I think most couples, if they think about it, would rather choose a small little house or whatever and a meaningful close marriage than to have a lavish place to live and a lot of possessions, but not have a close relationship in their marriage. It's just that, you know, Jesus said it, life does not consist in the abundance of what we possess. Life's meaning is found in relationships, not in things. So where we live doesn't necessarily determine the quality of our marriage. Any couple can have a growing marriage. I don't care whether you have little or whether you have much. We can have a growing marriage if we take steps to learn how to pleasure each other, how to serve each other, how to help each other bend our lives in a meaningful way in service to others in the name of Christ.
- [25:57]
Jim Daly
Well, Gary, that's a great call and a great way to end today. Your book, a Simple Guide for a Better Marriage. Quick, practical insights. Every couple needs to thrive. I mean, that's right up our alley here at Focus on the Family. We're trying to do that, and we're so grateful how you pour in to Focus on the Family and allow us to spread the content that the Lord's given you through radio programs, podcasts. You are always willing and desirous for us to work with you in that way, and that's so good because you have so many great things to say that the Lord has given you. So thank you once again for being with us and sharing the good news about healthy marriage and the benefits. Thanks for being with us.
- [26:40]
Dr. Gary Chapman
Well, thank you. I always enjoy being with you. And thanks for all that you're doing at Focus on the Family.
- [26:44]
Jim Daly
Well, and if you're in that spot, you have an okay marriage, but want to make it better. You get a copy of Gary's book, send a gift of any amount to the ministry, and we'll get it right out to you. It's a win, win opportunity. We'll get a great resource and together we'll do more ministry to help families. Before we close today, we have something a little unusual going on this week, and today's the last day. We're looking for more monthly sustainers, people who are willing to donate every month to help us build stronger marriages and provide practical tools for parents and equip Christians of all ages to grow in their faith. I think that's a good goal. And today, like I said, is the last day for this exclusive offer. If you commit to a monthly pledge of $30 or more, we'll send you Gary's great book along with a Focus branded coffee tumbler and a small packet of the coffee we drink every day in the studio that John helped to procure. And trust me, it's really good.
- [27:44]
John Fuller
It really is. We call it Jim's Blend.
- [27:45]
Jim Daly
It should be John's Blend.
- [27:46]
John Fuller
We should send it off with every guest. And this is just a fun way for us to say thank you for partnering with us in ministry. Join us and help thousands of married couples that we help every year.
- [27:58]
Jim Daly
That's right. Our research shows we've helped more than 530,000. That's right. You heard that right. 530,000 couples have better, healthier relationships with, with each other. And that's just in the last 12 months. So I'm excited about that. And if you want to be involved with us in that way, become one of the friends of FOCUS ON THE Family. And again, that's for a pledge of $30 a month.
- [28:24]
John Fuller
Call today. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word family. 800-232-6459. And we've got details@focusonthefamily.com thanks for listening to FOCUS on THE FAMILY with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [29:01]
Jim Daly
God is at work and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Colson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit truthrising.com today. That's truthrising.com.