Five More Ways to Grow Closer as a Couple (Part 1 of 2)

Summary

Focus on the Family with Jim Daly: Five More Ways to Grow Closer as a Couple (Part 1 of 2) – Detailed Summary

In the June 9, 2025 episode of "Focus on the Family with Jim Daly," hosts Jim Daly and John Fuller engage in a heartfelt and insightful roundtable discussion with Dr. Greg Smalley and his wife, Erin Smalley. Joined by Jim’s wife, Jean Daly, the panel delves into practical strategies and personal anecdotes aimed at strengthening marital bonds. This summary captures the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, complete with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

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1. Introduction of Guests and Themes

The episode opens with Erin Smalley sharing her appreciation for reflecting on the journey of her marriage. She emphasizes the importance of acknowledging past struggles to appreciate growth and divine intervention:

Erin Smalley [00:01]: "We love it because it shows. Look at how far we've come. Look at what God has done."

John Fuller [00:26] introduces Erin and Greg Smalley, highlighting their dedication to marriage and family counseling.

Jim Daly [00:39] announces that the discussion will focus on improving marital connections, referencing his book co-authored with Kenny Chapman, The Healthy Marriage Devotional: 365 Daily Inspirations to Bring You Closer Together.

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2. Importance of Communication and Conflict Management

The conversation begins with a light-hearted story about differing cooking styles, illustrating how couples can navigate everyday differences:

Erin Smalley [01:45]: "We didn't know that we are generally opposites."

Jean Daly [04:14]: "Being opposites, you know that we are opposites... instead of being annoyed by those differences, just recognizing God makes us different."

This segment underscores the significance of understanding and valuing each other's differences to foster harmony.

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3. Personal Stories Illustrating Marriage Challenges

a. The Laundry Mishap

Erin recounts an early marital conflict involving laundry:

Erin Smalley [23:39]: "We just go... 33 years later, here we are and look at what God has done."

This humorous yet poignant story highlights the growth and improved conflict management in their marriage over 33 years.

b. Losing the Wedding Ring

A pivotal moment shared by Jim and Jean Daly illustrates accountability and support:

Jim Daly [15:00]: "What? How did that happen?"

Jean Daly [17:19]: "It said, I care enough about how upset you are that I'm going to try to fix this. I love you."

Jim’s effort to retrieve the lost ring, despite not finding it, symbolizes unwavering support and love.

c. Dealing with Exhaustion and Communication Gaps

Jim and Greg discuss the strain of balancing work and family life:

Jim Daly [05:23]: "I thought I had upset you somehow."

Greg Smalley [07:39]: "Then I stopped trying to fix and solve and just started going, all right, yeah, tell me, what's that been like?"

This exchange emphasizes the importance of active listening and emotional support over problem-solving during stressful times.

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4. The Role of Mentoring in Strengthening Marriages

The panel explores the benefits of mentoring for both mentors and mentees:

Greg Smalley [06:27]: "We've created something called Marriage Champions... simple things that we're finding is a great way to invest in other couples to mentor them."

Erin Smalley [07:05]: "We as a mentor actually benefit from pouring into another couple, that it blesses our marriage because we're ministering together."

The discussion highlights how mentoring fosters community support, mutual growth, and the sharing of wisdom, strengthening individual marriages and the broader community.

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5. Resilience and Long-Term Perspective in Marriage

Jim Daly introduces the concept of resilience in marriage, likening everyday challenges to "Gordian knots" that require creative solutions:

Jim Daly [13:09]: "Resiliency is really cool. Can it be developed? I think so. It's attitudinal."

Greg Smalley [20:04]: "Having the long view gives us one hope that we're going to get there. It gives us a goal, something that we're working towards."

The panel discusses maintaining a long-term vision in marriage, focusing on enduring through hardships with the goal of building a lasting, God-glorifying relationship.

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6. Lessons from Long-Married Couples

Drawing inspiration from couples married 40, 50, or even 60 years, the panel shares simple yet profound secrets to enduring marriages:

Jim Daly [12:27]: "What's the secret? ... play footsies and make sure you say sorry."

Greg Smalley [13:24]: "Resiliency factor... repairing for what will happen, we will have those moments..."

These lessons emphasize the simplicity of small, affectionate gestures and the importance of resilience in overcoming challenges together.

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7. Conclusion and Resources

The episode concludes with a reflection on how far the Smalley family has come, attributing their growth to effective conflict management and communication:

Erin Smalley [24:41]: "...here we are and look at what God has done."

Jim Daly and John Fuller then provide information about additional resources, including Jim’s The Healthy Marriage Devotional and the Hope Restored Marriage Intensive, encouraging listeners to seek support and continue nurturing their marriages.

Erin Smalley [27:44]: "Your marriage can be redeemed, even if the fights seem constant... Call us at 1-866-875-2915."

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Key Takeaways

• Embrace Differences: Recognizing and valuing each other's differences can prevent conflicts and strengthen the marital bond.
• Effective Communication: Open, honest, and empathetic communication is crucial in resolving conflicts and understanding each other's needs.
• Resilience and Long-Term Perspective: Maintaining a long-term vision and developing resilience helps couples navigate through challenging times.
• Mentoring: Engaging in mentorship provides support, shared wisdom, and fosters a community of strong marriages.
• Small Gestures Matter: Simple acts of affection and regular expressions of apology contribute significantly to marital longevity.

This episode of "Focus on the Family with Jim Daly" offers valuable insights and practical advice for couples seeking to deepen their connection and build a resilient, loving marriage. By sharing personal stories and professional expertise, the panel provides listeners with relatable strategies to enhance their relationships and thrive together in Christ.

Transcript

[Erin Smalley]

We look at where we started, where we came from. Some people are like, that's a terrible story. Why do you tell it? We love it because it shows. Look at how far we've come. Look at what God has done. Thank goodness we got help. We learned how to manage conflict and how to communicate better and to not throw laundry over the balcony near your wife. And we just go, 33 years later, here we are and look at what God has done.

[John Fuller]

That's Erin Smalley describing how she and her husband Greg have stuck together in marriage despite some ups and downs in the relationship. I'm John Fuller, and we'll hear more of their story today on FOCUS on THE FAMILY with Jim Daly.

[Jim Daly]

Actually, we're going to hear several marriage stories today because Greg and Erin joined me and my wife Jean in the studio recently, we decided to have a roundtable discussion about better ways to connect as a husband and a wife. It's always a little dangerous having Jean join. I feel a little exposed.

[John Fuller]

She's the truth teller.

[Jim Daly]

She is a truth teller. The purpose of this conversation was a book I wrote with the help of Kenny Chapman. The title is the healthy marriage devotional365 daily inspirations to Bring youg Closer Together. And it was a lot of fun exploring different themes and stories about marriage with Jean and Greg and Erin. And I think every couple will find something helpful from this program.

[John Fuller]

Yeah, this is really a delightful conversation. And Greg and Erin head up our marriage and family content here at Focus and do a lot of writing and speaking and counseling on marriage issues. By the if you'd like to learn more about that devotional Jim mentioned, we've got details for you in the show notes. Let's go ahead and hear that roundtable conversation on today's FOCUS on the FAMILY with Jim Daly.

[Erin Smalley]

So first we're going to talk about strengthening marriages. And Jim and Jean, we're going to start off with a story about cooking and how you have very different approaches to following recipes.

[Jim Daly]

Well, do you want the right way or the wrong way?

[Erin Smalley]

That's what I would say.

[Jim Daly]

Let's start with the right way. Jean, how do you cook?

[Jean Daly]

Well, having a science background, that's no default. I do like looking for the meniscus and the liquid measuring.

[Jim Daly]

Does anybody know what that is?

[Greg Smalley]

What tor my meniscus in my knee one time.

[Jim Daly]

So yeah, I have a torn meniscus.

[Jean Daly]

I do. I'm not quite as precise anymore, but I do. You know, you're flowering. Put the flour in the cup and use a knife to scrape it Off.

[Jim Daly]

That's where I was going.

[Greg Smalley]

Right. You are loving your family by giving them the best version of the food you're preparing.

[Jim Daly]

You know, it's only pancake mix. That's all that. It's not like tile grout. The stuff you can actually add a little water, and if it's too thin, add a little flour. If it's too thick, you thin it down. I mean, so I was like, oh, my gosh, this is going to be painful.

[Greg Smalley]

Like, was this from the get go? Oh, yeah.

[Jean Daly]

Oh, yes, from the get go.

[Jim Daly]

And I'm sure the other shoe on the foot would be her watching me. And she's going, what are you doing?

[Greg Smalley]

That's gonna be terrible.

[Jim Daly]

Are you trying to ruin breakfast? I mean, that's not what she said. But you don't. I'm sure it's what you were thinking.

[Jean Daly]

Well, no. And we are. We didn't know that we are generally opposites.

[Jim Daly]

We thought we went through marriage now. You two do a lot of marriage counsel. So Gene and I went to marriage counseling. That was so smart. What. The statistic is great. You know, if you go to 10 hours or more of marriage counseling, what's. What's the incident of divorce?

[Greg Smalley]

It's very likely premature.

[Erin Smalley]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Greg Smalley]

80% stay together.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. That's amazing. So that's the first step. So we did that one really well. And we went into that going, we're so much alike. We are just so similar. This is why God has brought us together, because we care about the same things and we see the world the same way. And then we cooked breakfast together and went, what is this?

[Greg Smalley]

Yes.

[Jim Daly]

But isn't that true? I mean, that's kind of the opposite thing. So, yeah, that was the. You know, I think I've learned to appreciate sloppy cooking. Only goes so far.

[Greg Smalley]

Right.

[Jim Daly]

Eventually, measuring things does pay off in the long run.

[Greg Smalley]

Yeah.

[Jean Daly]

And being opposites, you know that we are opposites. I was such a night owl. He's a morning person. He's an extrovert. I'm an introvert. And those differences can become quite annoying. But, you know, you really need. It helps to do kind of a shift in thinking. And instead of being annoyed by those differences, just recognizing God makes us different.

[Greg Smalley]

That's a good thing.

[Erin Smalley]

It is a good thing to the marriage to be different.

[Jim Daly]

It's a huge challenge. How am I going to make a positive out of this negative thing? But I remember being at the sink. I mean, we were probably married six, eight months. Do you remember when I'm at The sink and I'm brushing my teeth. I start really pretty loud in the morning, like, hey, how you doing? What's happening? Did you sleep? Did you dream about anything? What'd you dream about? Tell me about that. What you like for breakfast? You want anything for breakfast? I mean, that's a little, little exaggerated, but I'm a talker in the morning. And she was not responding to me. And I thought, seriously, I thought.

[Greg Smalley]

Then you start to personalize it.

[Jim Daly]

Well, it was like, well, what have I done? How have I upset her? She seems mad. And then one day, which was good communication, good. She just, you know, she's brushing her teeth and I'm yapping away and she's not talking to me. And then she just looked at me and said, I don't really talk before 10 o' clock. And I went, oh, okay. The pieces are falling into pleasantly. That was so helpful to me. I didn't have to guess why you weren't talking to me. And I put everything in front of the simple answer, which is, I don't really talk before 10. I thought I had upset you somehow. And this isn't working very well in our marriage.

[Jean Daly]

Okay, Erin, it's my turn to ask you a question. Explain how mentoring can help a marriage for both the mentors and the mentees, those being mentored.

[Jim Daly]

And let me give a shameless shout out to your mentoring program here at Focus for people to sign up. Yeah, talk about that real quick then.

[Greg Smalley]

Answer, yeah, we just, we know that the real answer for marriage revival in our country is this army of couples. Every church, there's so many couples that just want to help, want to invest, want to do something for another couple. Oftentimes it's like, well, what do we do? So we've created something called Marriage Champions to where it just, it helps give vision for a couple going, yeah, we want to do something. So, you know, one idea is to pray for another couple or maybe babysit for a couple with young kids or, you know, take someone out to coffee or double date. It's these simple things that we're finding is a great way to invest in other couples to mentor them.

[Erin Smalley]

Yeah. And so often we don't realize that we as a mentor actually benefit from pouring into another couple, that it blesses our marriage because we're ministering together and we're imparting wisdom to someone else and our experience, Granted, most people are like, well, I don't, I don't think that we have the perfect marriage, so we can't mentor. But the truth Is, you know, if. Even if you're just a little bit further down the road than another couple. And as well, for us, having a mentor couple is a blessing to someone who is further down the road, who has wisdom and can pour into our marriage.

[Jim Daly]

You know, so many folks that support the ministry say to me, when I'm traveling and meeting with them, you know, we pray for you guys and we write you a check, but is there anything else we could do? Man, this is a great way to plug in with us to within your church, be a marriage mentor. Just go to your pastor, talk about it. Do you mind if I do that? And then there's so many ways to hook in with focus to help those couples that are struggling, the younger couples that need some help. And they're not probably going to say anything, but if you seek them out, they'll go to lunch with you.

[Erin Smalley]

Totally. And even just the question, like, how did you guys deal with this? We have small kids and we're overwhelmed. How did you guys do that? It's just such a simple thing to share your experience and encourage them and give them hope that you guys are going to get through this. It's a hard season that you're in, but you're going to get through it. We did.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. Speaking of that, I remember I have something called the Gordian knot, you know, and this is a thing out of, I don't know, Philosophy 101, but it was this knot in the ancient world that could not be undone. So anything I hit up against that, I can't figure it out. That's a Gordian knot. Like, I can't figure out how to do it. So the Gordian knot for Gene and I in our marriage occurred when, I mean, I'm working hard. I just became president Focus. There were things we needed to work on. And, you know, I'm spending 12, 14 hours a day at the office, which was not good. Our kids were young. And I remember one night, specifically, you know, where this is going. So I remember, you know, I got home at, I don't know, six o' clock maybe, and I step into the door, had a briefcase back in those days before smartphones. And, you know, I just set it down and Gene actually meets me at the door with the boys, who are probably like 6 and 4, maybe 7 and 5, and she goes, they're yours. And I was like, okay, can I just put some comfy clothes on? And can I just take five minutes to throw some water on my face? But I got it. And you know, the thing about it wasn't. I mean, Gene was equally desperate as I was. So you have these two exhausted parents and you both need to tend to the children in some way. And that to me was a Gordian knot. It's like there is no real way to undo, undo that knot. We just need to figure out how to survive in this moment. So what do you. What kind of Gordian knots did you guys have?

[Greg Smalley]

That's a, that's a great question. I mean, probably a lot like what you were saying is that, you know, with. When we had young kids in.

[Jim Daly]

That seems to be that time.

[Greg Smalley]

Yeah, the same thing. I mean, Aaron would just be exhausted. I was traveling a lot. And so I would call, you know, I'd be out to dinner with colleagues and you know, we're having this great time. Traveling is exhausting. But I would call her and I'm just telling her, yeah, we did this and we had this. It has a great pool. Man, their steak was awesome.

[Erin Smalley]

Yeah. And I'm sitting on the side of the road in a broken down car, remember that? And going, well, I'm so glad, Greg. I've got three kids in the backseat. My car won't start. And I'm glad you went out for steak. That's awesome.

[Jean Daly]

And I got three hours of sleep last night.

[Erin Smalley]

Yes, add that in there. So I'm calling the tow truck truck right now and I'll be fine.

[Greg Smalley]

I think for me, the hardest part was as we would talk. So I'm excited to hear about her day and just to catch up, connect. And then it would be kind of this dump of everything that's going on that's frustrated her. And I would feel so helpless. But how I would choose to handle that would be that I would try to shut her down. I would try to say, hey man, when I call you like this, can we just talk? Like fun, happy. Can we just relate? Why do you always have to dump everything on me? Because what I wasn't understanding was that this would create helplessness in me. I didn't know what to do. And so I'd try to control her, to get her to not tell me about these things. And it never worked.

[Erin Smalley]

No, but really underneath that, all I was wanting is to know I wasn't alone, that he was with me even though he wasn't home, that he was with me across the miles and that I wasn't alone in parenting these children and feeling so overwhelmed just to know that he was available to connect with me in that moment.

[Greg Smalley]

Then I stopped trying to fix and solve and just started going, all right, yeah, tell me, what's that been like? And that was how we untied the Gordian knot.

[Jim Daly]

There you go.

[Erin Smalley]

Nice.

[Greg Smalley]

Jim, we love stories about older couples who have been married 40, 50, even 60 years. I mean, their love stories are amazing. So from what you've observed, what's the secret to their success? So as you hear all these stories, what stands out?

[Jim Daly]

You know, you do a good job of this, collecting these little stories. So I remember one that's kind of funny. This couple that had been like 70 years married, they were asked, what's the secret? And he said, well, when you get into bed, play footsies and make sure you say sorry. I thought there's something pretty easy to.

[Erin Smalley]

That's good.

[Jim Daly]

So that seemed to work for them.

[Jean Daly]

Yes.

[Jim Daly]

But, you know, again, I think we over complicate it. I think resiliency is really cool. It's an incredible attribute. Can it be developed? I think so. It's attitudinal. So what's the attitude toward your spouse? And I'm not always strong at that. I mean, I can. What are you doing? Right?

[Greg Smalley]

No, never.

[Jean Daly]

Sure, there are times.

[Greg Smalley]

This feels like a Gordian knot moment, but it's that.

[Jim Daly]

Resiliency factor that, you know, we're in this. We're going to figure it out. We have to figure it out. And there's degrees of that. You guys are counseling people all the time.

[Greg Smalley]

But I love the meaning, though, of resilience. It's able to withstand or recover quickly from difficulties. And there's a beautiful way in which kind of thinking about that, repairing for what will happen, we will have those moments to where a child is handed to us the moment we come home from work or whatever's going on and how do we recover quickly from that.

[Erin Smalley]

Or even seeing the benefit of it, that, gosh, as we walk through these difficulties, we're going to grow stronger because of it. And so there's benefit if we can remember that through those difficult times in marriage that we're developing grit and resiliency.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, it's so good. And trying to de escalate. I mean, that's a big part of it. Like, what are we really talking about here? It's pancake mix or whatever.

[Greg Smalley]

What's below the surface?

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. And to your point, so many of these things are just the mundane things of life that we all laugh about. Who squeezes the toothpaste from what part of the tube? Right. And these things become irritating for some Silly reason. And it shouldn't be that way.

[Greg Smalley]

Can you snap back from that stuff quick?

[Jim Daly]

That's the resilience.

[Greg Smalley]

By either going, you know what? We are different. And that's how Aaron likes to do it. Or, that's what's going on. Or, hey, how do we need to repair what just happened Quickly?

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. Some things shouldn't matter. Something shouldn't matter much.

[Erin Smalley]

So, Jim and Jean, I have another question. I know you guys have a story about losing Jean's wedding ring.

[Jim Daly]

Well, we don't have a story about it. This question is for you.

[Erin Smalley]

So you lost your wedding ring, and what happened? And what did you guys learn through that?

[Jim Daly]

Well, may I set this up?

[Jean Daly]

Oh, please.

[Jim Daly]

Yes. Because I came home from work, it was probably about 6. There's a pattern here. And I bound through the door. My bride is nowhere. I'm going, where's my wife? Where's Jean? And then I hear this in the bathroom.

[Erin Smalley]

Oh, no.

[Jim Daly]

And I go to open the door, and it's locked. And I'm going, yeah.

[Greg Smalley]

None of these are good signs.

[Jim Daly]

Are you okay?

[Greg Smalley]

Did our boys tie her up in the bathroom?

[Jim Daly]

She's going, no, I'm not okay. I'm like, oh, my gosh. What is going on? We have a wonderful marriage and a good life. What's happening? And she eventually opened the door. It took a little time. You can take over from there.

[Greg Smalley]

Let's get set up.

[Jim Daly]

So I'm kind of afraid now.

[Jean Daly]

We were newlywed, so this was the first year of our marriage. And I.

[Jim Daly]

It's over.

[Jean Daly]

Obviously. Accidentally flushed my wedding ring.

[Greg Smalley]

Flushed it.

[Jean Daly]

Flushed it down the toilet.

[Jim Daly]

May I give some advice to husbands? Right here. It's not in our devotional, but this is added material. Don't say, how could that happen?

[John Fuller]

How could you.

[Jim Daly]

That's not a good.

[Jean Daly]

What were you thinking?

[Jim Daly]

Well, it wasn't that. It was more like. What? How did that happen? To which you continued to cry?

[Jean Daly]

Well, it was so interesting. I was sobbing. I could not stop sobbing. And, you know, poor Jim's trying to console me. I was inconsolable. And I. You know, the ring obviously meant a lot to me. It had been my. Yeah, it had been my engagement ring that I told Jim. I wanted that to be our. My wedding ring. It was my birthstone. We didn't have the money to replace it. I am sentimental, but I just fell apart. What is so sweet, though. The next day, I had to work all day, and Jim spent the entire day taking that toilet apart, hoping I began to cry. Hoping.

[Erin Smalley]

I imagine I can't believe I got.

[John Fuller]

To work on this toilet.

[Greg Smalley]

I didn't even know how to do that.

[Jean Daly]

Well, that was before YouTube.

[Erin Smalley]

Yes.

[Jim Daly]

Well, let us just say it was a good effort, but I didn't find the ring. I found other things, but I didn't find the ring.

[Jean Daly]

No, but that, that act, I'll tell you what, that still sticks with me. That meant so much to me.

[Greg Smalley]

What did that say? Like, what was the message by him doing that?

[Jean Daly]

It said, I care enough about how upset you are that I'm going to try to fix this. I love you. I'm gonna spend my whole Saturday looking. Car rings.

[Jim Daly]

This is like the week knowing that.

[Greg Smalley]

I had to pay someone undo what I've just screwed up Here.

[Jim Daly]

You kind of go, okay, there's two bolts. If I take these off, I'm sure I can get this off the floor.

[Greg Smalley]

That's reasonable.

[Jim Daly]

Never done it before in my life, but that's so sweet. I never heard you convey that.

[Jean Daly]

Oh, absolutely. And in the end, you know, I eventually realized the ring, yes, it was sentimental and yes, it was pretty, but it's just a symbol. Just like the wedding, the big wedding, it's just a symbol and it's really about the relationship of the marriage. The matter.

[Jim Daly]

Let me move here toward the long view of marriage. You know, so often in parenting we talk about this, the need to have the long view when your 14 year old is misbehaving and kind of frame your mind as the parent around them being 30, and what are you aiming for and what are the lessons to teach them in that moment, that kind of thing that can be said too, of marriage, that you need to take the long view of marriage. So many of us are living in survival mode because the pace of the culture, the job, or the jobs we both have, et cetera, the family, all of that. How do we keep that long view perspective when everything's raining down on us every day?

[Erin Smalley]

Yeah, it's so important to know where do we want to go? What do we want our marriage to look like long term? I recently had a couple sitting in my office and they had attended a wedding and they came in, they. They were struggling prior to attending this wedding and sitting at this wedding of a friend. They came in and they said, you know what? It just revived what we really want to shoot for. We want a marriage that glorifies God. And it gave them a vision for where they wanted to go. And it actually helped in the moment because it inspired them to work what was happening now for the long Term goal of we want to work toward a marriage that is glorifying.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, yeah.

[Greg Smalley]

There is something powerful about thinking about, like you're saying, where are we going to be in 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years in thinking that through? Because then that gives us one hope that we're going to get there. It gives us a goal, something that we're working towards. And there's just something powerful about having that long view. We said that in our. Our wedding vows when we talked about in the good times, in the bad times, that this is a lifelong marriage. There's something powerful about going, this is for a lifetime. I've eliminated the word divorce from our vocabulary. It creates kind of that journey mentality of going, you know, I don't know exactly what's going to happen, but I know where we're headed. Let's just start walking and journeying together and then deal with whatever comes up. We're in this together, and we'll figure it out along the way. I mean, I think that's what it helps us do.

[Jim Daly]

I'm laughing because I know the stories of you guys when you were first married. We cannot escape today without the laundry story from your home. I just love that story because it's so funny. We're right at the end. Let's talk about early development in marriage and some of the things you weren't doing so well.

[Greg Smalley]

What I wasn't doing well was James 4:1 that says, what causes quarrels or fights among you? Is it not the desires that wage war within you? What's really going on? So one time, Aaron was. We just had gotten into a conflict early in the morning. Nothing was going right.

[Jim Daly]

You're married? Married. How long?

[Greg Smalley]

Months.

[Jim Daly]

Months, okay.

[Greg Smalley]

Under a year, for sure.

[Erin Smalley]

I had to go to work. It was a Saturday. Didn't want to go to work. We were irritated. So I set a good, firm boundary before I left to say, no more talking. Let's just stop, and when I get back, we'll figure it out.

[Greg Smalley]

So she pops her head in the door. So she's leaving. She's a nurse at this time, working in a hospital. So she shuts the door, pops her head back in and makes one more smart comment about whatever we'd been talking about. And she'd already said, no more talking.

[Jim Daly]

So she violated.

[Erin Smalley]

I violated my own rule.

[Jim Daly]

So you're throwing a flag.

[Greg Smalley]

So she's gone. Like I'm just standing there going, well, that wasn't very nice. That's so unfair. And so I had already said I'd get Our laundry together. So I pulled it all together. So I used to put it all in this huge mesh bag because there was no elevator and we lived up on the fourth floor. But under our apartment on the first floor was the laundry room. So I would just jam all the laundry in in this bag and then wait till no one was around and then just drop it on the ground. Then I just would go down, pull it in the laundry. It was very room. It was very easy. So as I'm about to release the laundry bag that's stuffed full, I see Erin walking on the ground floor. I was still irritated by her whole last word thing. So I thought, wouldn't it be funny? In my mind, I'm thinking it'd be hilarious if I drop that by her. By her. She'll look up and I'll be like, last word that. And I'll win. Because marriage is all about winning. And so sure enough, I released it in my. Well, I guess depending on your perspective, either my aim was really on or really off, but either way, I hit her. Barely clipped her with the big laundry. Enough though to throw her kind of on the ground. So there she is. Yeah, she's just staring at me as I'm looking at her going, oh, yeah, I'm in big trouble.

[Jim Daly]

That was not good.

[Greg Smalley]

She starts racing back up like she's coming up the stairs to get me. And I did what any real man would do in that situation. I ran back in the apartment and locked the door.

[Erin Smalley]

And thank goodness I didn't have my keys because I don't know what I would have done.

[Jean Daly]

You really did.

[Erin Smalley]

But I went to work my 12 hour shift, came back and walked into the apartment to make amends. He had washed everything in the apartment, including the couch cushion. So he unzipped the outer couch cushion, but shrunk them to where there were like these pyramids across the.

[Greg Smalley]

To say not to dry them. That would have been helpful.

[Erin Smalley]

Yes. But we tell that story because we look at where we started, where we came from. Some people are like, that's a terrible story. Why do you tell it? We love it because it shows. Look at how far we've come. Look at what God has done. Thank goodness we got help. We learned how to manage conflict and how to communicate better and to not throw laundry over the balcony near your wife. And we just go, 33 years later, here we are. And look at what God has done.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. And that's the point of everything. Look at what God has done. So this has been great. Let's come Back next time and keep it going. Can we do that?

[Erin Smalley]

Absolutely.

[Jean Daly]

Yes.

[John Fuller]

This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And we've heard part one of a conversation Jim and Gene Daley had with Dr. Greg Smalley and his wife Erin. And our panel was exploring themes from a book that Jim wrote called the healthy marriage devotional. 365 Daily Inspirations to bring you closer together. Get a copy of that book from us here at the ministry, make a monthly pledge of any amount to Focus, and we'll send that book to you as our way of saying thank you for supporting this ministry and all that we're doing and working hand in hand with us to strengthen marriages.

[Jim Daly]

Frankly, that's one of the big reasons why Focus on the Family exists. It's to help husbands and wives have strong and healthy relationships that honor the Lord. How about that? And we have many resources for you, like our counseling team and Hope Restored, our four day intensive where we offer counseling to marriages that are really struggling and in trouble. Yeah.

[John Fuller]

And Jim, you know this and I've mentioned this before. Deana and I went to a Hope Restored intensive in Branson. Not because we were thinking of divorce, but we were just stuck after 30 years. We were just, we were in some bad patterns. And the staff there was so caring and so kind and that was about five years ago. Today we're using almost daily the tools that we learned at Hope Restored. So I really want to encourage our friends if you know someone who needs help. Hope Restored is a terrific program.

[Jim Daly]

In fact, it has a 98% satisfaction rating. I mean, 98% of the couples that go say the program was really good and I'm proud of that. And you can partner with us to give that help to couples in need. Make a monthly pledge to focus on the family today or send a one time gift, whatever you can afford. We can work together to help save marriages for the kingdom.

[John Fuller]

You can donate online or give us a call. We've got the details in the show notes to learn more about Hope Restored, about ways that we can help your marriage, including the Healthy Marriage devotional that Jim wrote. And if your travel plans have you coming to or near Colorado Springs, please check out our website for details about about all the great things you can do. Here at our ministry headquarters, we have a fantastic welcome center with an indoor play area for kids. We've got a Wit's End soda shop so much here, including a terrific bookstore. Stop by and say hi as you can. And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

[Erin Smalley]

Your marriage can be redeemed, even if the fights seem constant, even if there's been an affair, even if you haven't felt close in years. No matter how deep the wounds are, you can take a step toward healing them with a hope Restored Marriage Intensive. Our biblically based counseling will help you find the root of your problems and face challenges together. We'll talk with you, pray with you, and help you find out which program will work best. Call us at 1-866-875-2915.