← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
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- [00:01]
Jim Daly
God is at work and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from FOCUS on the Family and the Colson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit truthrising.com today. That's truthrising.com.
- [00:39]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Praise creates positive energy in a marriage. And it's interesting to me. Every counseling session. I've done thousands and thousands of counseling sessions with couples. Every session I begin with a couple. I have them appreciate each other.
- [00:54]
John Fuller
Dr. Randy Schrader joins us again today on FOCUS on THE family. And we thank you for joining us. I'm John Fuller, and your host is FOCUS as president and author Jim Daly.
- [01:03]
Jim Daly
John, I think we both agree the conversation last time was so helpful. There's so many great little deposits of wisdom that Randy provides in this book, Simple Habits for Marital Happiness. I mean, you could just start taking little notes. Yeah.
- [01:16]
John Fuller
He's got a way to make things stand out and be remembered. There's some great hooks.
- [01:20]
Jim Daly
It's perfect. We discuss simple choices that really strengthen your connection with your spouse. Who doesn't want that? Things like saying thank you and reconnecting for two minutes at the end of the day, saying I love you when you leave the house, saying I love you when you go to bed at night. You think of those as just fluff. But couples that practice those habits have happier marriages. And it doesn't take a lot. But it's thoughtfulness that counts. And I'm looking forward to another part of that discussion today.
- [01:49]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Yeah.
- [01:49]
John Fuller
And if you missed anything from the previous conversation, we're available on YouTube. You can find us wherever podcasts are at Search stop by our website. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family, or check the show notes for the link. And Dr. Randy Schrader is a former seminary professor. He's a pastor and a marriage and family counselor. He's written a number of books. And we're going to come back to one that's, as Jim said, very, very accessible and very practical. It's called Simple Habits for Marital Happiness. The subtitle is Practical Skills and Tools that Build a Strong, Satisfying Relationship.
- [02:26]
Jim Daly
Randy, welcome back to focus.
- [02:28]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Well, it's a privilege to be with you. And I look forward to talking more about habits that lead to a successful, happy marriage.
- [02:35]
Jim Daly
You know, you strike me as that guy that and it's meant as a compliment. You set your life path very predictably. You repeat the Habits. You assess the habits and I can just tell you you're a pattern person.
- [02:49]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Well, I am and it's healthy. People, I believe are pattern. You know, they.
- [02:55]
Jim Daly
Well, thanks a lot. That just put me outside because the next thing I was going to say, I don't tend to be that way.
- [03:02]
Dr. Randy Schrader
You're very. Help me.
- [03:04]
Jim Daly
That's funny you should go there. But yeah, I always am a bit envious. Not in a negative way, but people that can see the right thing to do and then repeat that over and over again. I think my extrovert nature tends to get bored with that and I got to think of a new way to do it. But you're saying patterns in marriage are really important. That's what I'm hearing.
- [03:25]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Well, and I mentioned yesterday, 80% of our behaviors are habits. So in a sense everybody has patterns. Randy.
- [03:33]
Jim Daly
I'm sunk, man. This is good. This is good. This is.
- [03:37]
Dr. Randy Schrader
For me, healthy habits make a difference. You're correct.
- [03:42]
Jim Daly
Okay, let's start. We'll pick up last time and hopefully folks, there was so much great practical information in the broadcast yesterday. Pick it up. Like John said, smartphone apps are great way to get it. But let's pick up from last time. Listening can be a man's worst enemy. We're kind of thinking of things and we're not fully. I mean the other night I did this. Jean asked me, we're at a fast food restaurant. She said, can you get me a cup of ice? And I went, got the cup, filled it with ice and filled it with water. And I brought it back. And she said, no, no, no, I just want a cup of ice. Oh, oh. I go back, I throw the ice water away and bring her the cup back. I'm serious. I mean we were on a long drive. We were on like four or five o', clock, we were on a nine hour drive. So maybe my mind was just spongy. And she said, oh my, I just want a cup of ice. Well, thank you. Let me go get that. I think I got it now since the other two ways didn't work for us here. But I mean it was like a listening block. I literally, I've never done something like that before, but I was not computing what she was saying.
- [04:48]
Dr. Randy Schrader
It happens to all of us. Us. And yeah, but we need to strive to be world class listeners. And I think a good way to do that is to ask two questions of our spouse. You know, the first question is kind of a warm up question. You know, it could be how was your day to day? And the follow up question really makes our spouse feel special and valued. Okay. And so the two consecutive question guideline helps a lot of relationships and helps us listen well, because a lot of times individuals, we see this even in life, will ask a question to you and how was your day? And you say, well, it didn't go real well. And rather than say, what didn't go well? They start talking about their day. And so two consecutive questions really forces spouses to express interest in their partner. And that makes a difference in the relationship.
- [05:36]
Jim Daly
No, I like that you counseled a woman who corrected her husband all the time. I think this is very instructive too, because I think everybody could see a little bit of that in your relationship, I would think. I mean, that happens with Gene. And I question is, how often does that happen and to what degree? So this is a great illustration of unhealthy correction.
- [05:58]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Yeah. And there's a difference, I would say, between constructively correcting or criticizing and expressing wants and needs or expressing expectations. But a major predictor for unhappiness, separation and divorce, is criticism where one spouse is just critical and complaining all the time, and they're never satisfied. And often they're perfectionistic. They can be critical of themselves, critical of their spouses, critical of their kids. And in fact, this couple that I mention in my book, she criticized her husband all the time for everything. She criticized him on how he ate ice cream, if you can believe it.
- [06:41]
Jim Daly
I'd get out of the way. I wouldn't criticize anybody on how they eat ice cream. Man, that's dangerous territory.
- [06:47]
Dr. Randy Schrader
It's good. You just want to get it down to your tummy. And she criticized him how he put the trash liner in the trash can.
- [06:55]
Jim Daly
And so that one may make a little more sense.
- [06:58]
Dr. Randy Schrader
So I suggested to the couple, I said, let's try an experiment. I said, because he was just beaten down and criticism will do that. And so I suggested for one week they both avoid criticism, constructive corrections, complaining. And immediately the husband said, that's a great idea. And he said, no, I want to go two weeks. No, I want to go three weeks. And he said, no, I want to go a whole month.
- [07:26]
Jim Daly
Yeah.
- [07:26]
Dr. Randy Schrader
And the wife said, that's a dumb idea. I need to continue to correct him when he does things that I think are not right. And she would not do it. Now, she also had adult kids that struggled. I mean, they'd been married over 25 years, and she was constantly criticizing pretty much everyone, her family.
- [07:45]
Jim Daly
Randy, let me ask this question too. So often with the Christian context. You know, two committed people. We will evaluate the fact that we don't disagree much or we don't ever argue as a spiritual virtue. And I would think in a counseling environment, as a counselor, that's admirable. But then you start asking yourself, how deep is this going? Because if they can live at that level, they're obviously not occasionally bumping into each other emotionally, which means they may not be interacting as deeply as they should. So speak to that or maybe even give an illustration where the couple is saying, you know, what is Christian? And we get that kind of response here when we have a guest on who says, you know, our marriage was rocky. Well, if you're a Christian and you're in your marriage, you shouldn't have rocky. And we've never argued. I mean, I can remember getting some of that correspondence here at Focus. And I thought, wow, that marriage might be in as much trouble as the other one. They just don't know it.
- [08:49]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Exactly. You said it excellently. And they're not emotionally close. You know, we're going to have hurts and disappointments. You know, maybe we're not getting enough hugs from our spouses, or maybe we want more conversation. They're not giving us enough conversation. For again, 25 years, I was a seminary professor. I remember a seminarian in my class, we were going to talk about, how do you handle those hurts and disappointments? And he raised his hand again, married 25 years. And he said, Dr. Schrader, he said, my wife and I have never had a disagreement, and I wasn't going to embarrass him in front of the whole class. I just said, well, that's nice. Thanks for sharing.
- [09:27]
Jim Daly
See you after class.
- [09:28]
Dr. Randy Schrader
I felt sad because he does not have a close relationship. We can respect each other's differing opinions, differing viewpoints. We can respect each other when our spouses share a hurt with us. But that keeps us close to do that, talking together about what we can do to make it better.
- [09:45]
Jim Daly
And I think it's kind of when you have that healthy intensity in the relationship, it's actually good. It's what God intends. I mean, we are two imperfect people. But you should be colliding here and there and working that out healthy in a healthy context.
- [10:03]
Dr. Randy Schrader
And I would say the colliding put in quotes is respectful. Yeah. You want to be respectful? Disagree, yes. Disrespect, no.
- [10:14]
Jim Daly
Let me also ask you, some will be familiar with this rule, but remind us the I messages. You've mentioned that a few times I observed I. What are the I messages versus the you messages.
- [10:28]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Well, and that's kind of it. That speak the truth in love. You know, when I see you do this or when I hear you say that, you know, I feel hurt or disappointed. And we should never, we need to never begin with you unless we're going to praise our spouse. If we're going to say you're a wonderful Christian wife or you're a wonderful Christian husband, we want to avoid. You use attacking. That's a three letter word to forget the word but forget that one. And Y also is attacking. And so we don't want to do that either.
- [10:56]
Jim Daly
Randy, you mention in the book when you disagree with your spouse, you recommend a soft startup. Now, being Irish, I don't know anything. What do you mean a soft startup? I want to go right to the issue. Let's go, let's tackle it. What's a soft startup?
- [11:11]
Dr. Randy Schrader
That is absolutely essential. And again, I've done a lot of marriage research reading and harsh beginnings lead to harsh endings almost 100% of the time.
- [11:22]
Jim Daly
Okay, this is a proverb now. That's what it sounds like.
- [11:25]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Yeah. And harsh endings often lead to divorce. And so we need to have soft startups. As you just asked about and what's. I should.
- [11:33]
Jim Daly
Yeah, what's the example?
- [11:34]
Dr. Randy Schrader
I should define a harsh beginning first. You know, you always, you never. You're stupid, you're dumb. We need to talk. I've got an issue. We've got a problem. You know, that's a harsh beginning. And the other spouse immediately puts up a defense wall. And so a soft startup is I need your help. As Christian people, the three of us want to be helpful for others. That's why you do what you do. Serving our Lord Jesus here at Focus on the Family and so I need your help is disarming. And I can't tell you how many couples have said that made a huge positive difference in our marriage relationship to use those words. I need your help. Now if it's not a good time to discuss, the other spouse can say, hey, this is just not a good time. Spouses need to be in a pleasant mood, a decent mood, so they'll have the energy to look for solutions rather than attack and blame. And the other, I always call it the Terrific 3. Couples need to have discussions after 9 in the morning, before at night. They need to always sit down. They need so they're not standing and yelling at each other. And they need to always begin with I need your help. And those three simple yet effective habits, I would say those alone Besides, all the other habits in the book have saved probably 500 marriages from divorce that you dealt with, that I've counseled, have said to me, Dr. Schrader, those three simple yet very effective habits saved our marriage from divorce.
- [13:03]
Jim Daly
Thank you, Randy. Also, let me move to another today. It's such a taboo metaphor, but the rifle approach. What are you going after with the rifle approach? You got to be careful when you talk about this.
- [13:16]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Yeah. That is another guideline. And in fact, I have 16 guidelines on how couples can have respectful discussions. And that besides the stay inside the nines, always sit. I need your help. Another guideline is take the rifle approach. A rifle has a single bullet. A shotgun shell has a lot of pellets. And so couples need to focus on one hurt or disappointment.
- [13:42]
Jim Daly
Okay, not a bunch.
- [13:43]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Not a bunch. Because. And couples have a tendency to not just focus on issues at the time that they'll then go back in the past and just bring other things up. So whatever the hurt of disappointment is, just focus on that solitary issue.
- [13:57]
Jim Daly
What does it sound like when they're jumping all over the place? I mean, I think I get it, but give us an example of a rifle versus a shotgun.
- [14:04]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Well, they could say, you know, you didn't help with household roles. You're not helping with household roles. Well, last year I was doing this, this, and this, and you didn't do this, this, and this. You know, and so they kind of throw the kitchen, as they say, the kitchen sink. Just throw everything at their spouse. Rather than dealing with. I want you to help with household rules right now.
- [14:24]
Jim Daly
And you'll never walk away with resolution with the kitchen sink stuff out there.
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Dr. Randy Schrader
Exactly. Too much. There's numerous pellets out there. Numerous issues. No.
- [14:32]
Jim Daly
You also encourage couples to engage in dialogue, not monologue. This is probably a good parenting tip, too. I mean, but the kind of. The monologue doesn't get you very far.
- [14:43]
Dr. Randy Schrader
The monologue makes the other spouse feel talked at. They feel almost treated like a child that they're being talked down to. And someone who does a monologue wants to go on and on and on. There needs to be a nice ebb and flow when couples have a respectful disagreement discussion. It's kind of like a tennis volley. You go out to get exercise, a husband and wife, and they hit the ball nicely back and forth to each other so they can keep it going and run around and get exercise and help their heart rate. And likewise. That's what needs to happen with a marriage relationship. That dialogue needs to be there where a spouse Says three sentences. The other spouse echoes. I heard you say, is that correct? This spouse says another three sentences. I heard you say, is that correct? And then they exchange roles. This spouse becomes the speaker, that spouse becomes the listener with an echo. I heard you say, is that correct? I saw a physician and his wife, and he would go for five minutes, talk about a monologue. It was almost a mini sermon. And his wife, he said, I need to do that. And I said, well, doc, I need to do that.
- [15:55]
Jim Daly
That's just funny hearing that.
- [15:56]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Yeah. I said, doc, I said, you keep doing that, your wife is moving further and further away from you emotionally. You know, she is feeling. She's feeling attacked and she's feeling talked at. And the wife then spoke up and she said, that's it. I don't feel that he's talking with me. He's talking at me. And I encourage the doc to give up his monologues and start going to three sentences or less or four. You know, just be brief. And immediately their marriage improved. They started having real healthy discussions, understanding each other's viewpoint, perspective. And it was just remarkable how quickly their marriage went out.
- [16:33]
Jim Daly
I was going to ask you about that because, you know, again, the discipline of doing this, it's kind of where we started. It was hopefully a little bit humorous. But it's a discipline that you have to have. And so often when you go to a counselor and you use the I words and you're trying to impart into those couples these principles that work because you got to slow down, you got to think about what you're about to say, you got to try not to be harmful, aim for a good outcome. And practically, Randy, what's so hard? And I get this. You're in the heat of the moment. I mean, it's emotional, and you're trying to respond and you feel under attack, and it's like your brain has a hard time going to this place called adult. Think about what you're doing. How do you discipline yourself to back up in the emotional moment and say, honey, okay, let's just stop for a minute and let's recalibrate this discussion.
- [17:28]
Dr. Randy Schrader
And I think that's a good point, Jim. And God doesn't use the word discipline, but God uses the word self control in the fruit of the Spirit, right? So in a sense, I would say self control, self discipline, they're synonymous. But I think what happens and why simple habits for marital happiness have made a huge difference is so often couples just read in books about concepts and principles, and so you can't slow yourself down because you do not have the ability to slow yourself down without specific words and actions and knowledge. And so having these habits allows a spouse to develop self control. Unbelievable how parents can develop self control. And spouses develop self control when they have the tools and the skills.
- [18:20]
Jim Daly
That's so good. Let's move outside of that husband wife relationship. The other one that can impact a marriage from outside is unhealthy friendships. And describe what you see there in some of the counseling sessions that you've had. And how does a couple build a proper fence around those more toxic relationships? I would think, too. I mean, when the one spouse sees it and the other one doesn't, that's hard because then it's an internal battle. You know, honey, Susan is not a healthy person and she's leaning on you. But I love Susan. Susan's so wonderful. Okay, take it away.
- [19:00]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Yeah, well, and again, let's go back to God's word. You know, what does God's word say in Proverbs? Wise, walk with the wise and become wise walk with foolish people, and you're going to suffer harm. And so God is telling us in his word, watch your friendships. Your friendships can hurt your Christian walk. Your friendships can hurt your Christian marriage. And so identify those friends, because friendships should build up a marriage, not tear down a marriage. And it's not just friends. It could be family members. You know, I've seen family members tear down a Christian marriage.
- [19:35]
Jim Daly
Randy, while I was reading the prep and looking at the book last night, actually, and doing the research I needed to do, I was talking to Troy and Jean. They were in the kitchen, and I was in the living room reading. And I got into that. I was reading that part about putting change, you know, five coins in your right pocket. And then every time you criticize or you're critical of your spouse, take a coin out, put it in your left pocket. And then during the day, if you compliment your spouse or maybe your child in a parenting context, you take that coin out of your left pocket, put it in your right, and then at the end of the day, how many coins you have in your right pocket, which is the goal. That's a great. They both said, that is brilliant.
- [20:16]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Well, and it's a little different. I want to start out. I want to start with a positive Jim. So, yeah, every time they compliment their spouse, then they get to move a coin from the right pocket to the left.
- [20:28]
Jim Daly
Okay.
- [20:29]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Yeah, so we're going to start out. We want them to start hopefully complimenting, not criticizing, Start out complimenting. And hopefully the goal, they'll move five coins quickly. Now, sometimes women don't have pockets in their pants. And I say, you know, put five coins when you're at home on a kitchen counter, and every time you compliment, move it over to the left side and start putting the five coins over here. But when they criticize or correct or complain, now they got to take this coin and bring it back. They don't get to keep it over here in the left pile. And so it really helps a couple find out, am I a good finder or am I a fault finder? You know, how often, how often am I using the Cs? And so often when couples come in and say, you know, my spouse is just not appreciating me, I say, let's do the five coin idea.
- [21:18]
Jim Daly
You know, and again, that's a great. One of the many great concepts you have in your book. At the close here, let's make sure we hit this and address, I think, the theme, the thread of what we've been talking about, that a happy marriage is not spontaneous. And so many couples, when they get married, they live on that vapor of the honeymoon, and that may last a year or two. And then you get into the normalcy of life and the children come along and the job and promotions and responsibility and you got the house payment now and all that stuff.
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Dr. Randy Schrader
Yeah, yeah.
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Jim Daly
And the critical nature of that, to make sure that you're putting effort into your relationship. It's not spontaneous. It does take thought, it does take dialogue, it does take love to do this better. And for us in the Christian community, we should be the best at this, because the fruit of the spirit, as you've said over and over, is really the basis for how we should deal with one another. And couples will say, it's easy for me to do that with my friend. It's not so easy for me to do that with my spouse.
- [22:26]
Dr. Randy Schrader
And Jim, I am so happy that you brought this up and we got to talk about this, because if there's one word that points out the difference between a happy marriage and an unhappy marriage, it is planning. A Marriage Institute, I think it was in Philadelphia, something I read probably over 30 years ago, wanted to determine what is the difference between happy and unhappy marriages. And what they discovered the difference to be was that one word, planning. Happy couples planned time together, whereas unhappy couples let their good times happen by chance. You know, happy, successful couples plan to go to church this Sunday. They plan to give each other a meaningful hug, meaningful kiss today. They plan how are we going to connect tonight? When are we going to turn off the technology and look each other in the eyes and just talk? They plan for dates together to strengthen their marriage relationship. And so. Yeah, you're exactly. I'm glad you brought that up. That is the key. Now, that being said, we need to know how to the words and the behaviors and the knowledge to plan for a happy marriage. We still have to have that. Yeah. But yeah, planning is key.
- [23:43]
John Fuller
Dr. Randy Schrader has been our guest today for a second time on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And these habits that he has for having a strong marriage, they seem so simple. They really make such a profound difference in your relationship.
- [23:58]
Jim Daly
Yeah. Randy is so good at helping couples find quick, practical ways to strengthen their marriages. And you know, the habit that really stuck with me is that change in the pocket illustration, moving the coins from one pocket to the other every time you say something positive or negative to your spouse. It's a wonderful gauge to see where you're at at the end of the day. Did I do my responsibility to love my spouse as well as I could?
- [24:23]
Dr. Randy Schrader
Yeah.
- [24:23]
John Fuller
Inward and inward.
- [24:25]
Jim Daly
Right.
- [24:26]
John Fuller
Well, another way you can step back and kind of analyze how are we doing and what are some areas to grow in in the relationship is with our free marriage assessment. Over a million people have taken this. It's an online quiz. It'll take probably 10 or 15 minutes of your time, but it's personalized just for you. You're going to get a sense of where you're strong and maybe some areas of growth in the marriage as well.
- [24:49]
Jim Daly
I always love that, a little place to grow. But we all have those spots. We also have Randy's outstanding book, Simple Habits for Marital Practical Skills and Tools that Build a strong, satisfying relationship. And everybody said amen. And I'll venture to say that it's one of the best resources I've seen to get your marriage moving in a good direction. And I would simply say you need this book now before John tells you how to get it, I need to ask for your help today. Last time I mentioned only 1% of our listeners support the ministry financially. That number hasn't changed. But today we can change it. And if you are part of that 99% who haven't given, let me ask you to consider joining us in ministry. If Focus on the Family has helped you, would you please consider helping Focus? We are in a tight spot through the summer months here financially, and your gift will make a substantial difference. Those dollars allow us to provide resources to Hurting Families broadcasts, podcasts, books, online articles and like the free assessment, counseling, help from trained Christian counselors here at Focus on the Family and so much more. Let's turn 1% into something more powerful when you make a monthly pledge of any amount today. We'll also send you a copy of Randy's book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry with Focus on the Family. And if you're unable to commit to that monthly amount, we get it. If you can send a one time gift, we'll send you the book as well.
- [26:22]
John Fuller
Yeah, donate today and get your copy of the book Simple Habits for Marital Happiness. Access that free marriage assessment and see all the things we have to help your marriage stay strong. We've got the details in the show notes. Well, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [26:54]
Jim Daly
God is at work and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Colson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit truthrising.com today. That's truthrising.com.