Healing as a Parent from Childhood Trauma (Part 2 of 2)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Healing as a Parent from Childhood Trauma" (Part 2 of 2)

Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Air Date: March 11, 2026
Guests: Melanie Shankel
Hosts: Jim Daly, John Fuller
Book Mentioned: Here Be Dragons: Treading the Deep Waters of Motherhood, Mean Girls and Generational Trauma

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the conversation with author Melanie Shankel about the impact of childhood trauma on parenting and marriage, particularly for Christian families. Melanie shares personal stories of her journey to healing, lessons learned about setting boundaries with a toxic parent, the generational cycle of "mean girls," and practical ways to champion your family's emotional and spiritual health. The discussion emphasizes biblical principles, healthy boundaries, and unconditional love as tools for breaking generational patterns of dysfunction.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Recognizing and Healing from Generational Trauma

• Normalizing Dysfunction:
  • Many adults only recognize the trauma and dysfunctional behaviors in their upbringing after seeing healthy examples elsewhere.
  • Melanie notes the moment she realized her childhood wasn't “normal” (03:44, 06:51).
• The Dog Analogy:
  • Melanie tells the story of her dog, Piper, whose leg had to be amputated to stop a disease—an analogy for cutting off toxic relationships to allow for healing.
    • “Sometimes the only way to bring healing is to cut off the source of the disease... sometimes there are relationships... so toxic and so diseased that the only choice you have... is to cut off the source of the pain.” — Melanie Shankel (06:20)
• Struggle with Forgiveness and Boundaries:
  • Christian teaching emphasizes forgiveness and honoring parents, making it especially hard to set boundaries.
  • Melanie describes her process of ending her relationship with her mother to protect herself and her daughter:
    • “When you do this, you have to be able to do it without bitterness and without anger and with forgiveness in your heart, because otherwise you're going to perpetuate the very cycle you're trying to break.” — Melanie Shankel (08:21)

The Cycle of Control and Fear

• Self-Reflection for Parents:
  • Melanie stresses the importance of parents being aware of their own shortcomings.
    • “Are you allowing your child to be who God created them to be?... The biggest thing for me is, are you allowing your child to be who God created them to be?” — Melanie Shankel (09:36)
• From Control to Trust:
  • Many parents—especially within the Christian community—parent out of fear rather than trust in God.
    • “Worry is believing that God isn’t going to get it right.” — Melanie Shankel (12:34)
  • Melanie shares that God taught her: “I can't be her savior if you keep trying to be her savior.” (13:44)

Navigating Mean Girls and Mother-Daughter Dynamics

• Mother as the “First Mean Girl”:
  • Melanie describes the painful realization that her own mother was her first “mean girl.”
    • “Your mom is the one who is tearing you down... constantly measuring you, competing against you, who is jealous of you.” — Melanie Shankel (15:20–15:58)
• Awareness and Breaking the Pattern:
  • Reflecting on generational cycles, Melanie encourages listeners to be alert to whether significant women in their life react positively to their successes (16:48).
• Parenting Through Teenage “Mean Girls” Experiences:
  • Melanie tells the story of her daughter Caroline being targeted by mean girls in high school, and the family's struggle to know when to intervene (17:24–20:42).
  • Her husband Perry’s advice gave their daughter “permission to fight back and advocate for herself,” breaking from Melanie's own people-pleasing approach (20:46).

Building Resilient Identity and Relationships

• Scripture as Identity Anchor:
  • Melanie shares how they saturated their daughter with biblical truths—her value, purpose, and unique design.
    • “You are God’s workmanship. You were created for a purpose... you are wonderfully and fearfully created...” (22:59)
• Home as a Safe Place:
  • It’s vital to create a home environment where children feel unconditionally loved and heard—laying groundwork for resilience in the outside world (24:54).
  • Listening to children from a young age is emphasized as key to keeping communication open in adolescence (24:59).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cutting Off Toxic Relationships (Dog Analogy):

  • “Sometimes the only way to bring healing is to cut off the source of the disease... there are places that have become so toxic... the only choice you have... is to cut off the source of the pain.”
    — Melanie Shankel (06:20)

• On Christian Tension Between Forgiveness and Boundaries:

  • “When you do this, you have to... do it without bitterness and without anger and with forgiveness in your heart, because otherwise you’re going to perpetuate the very cycle you’re trying to break.”
    — Melanie Shankel (08:21)

• On Parental Fear and Trusting God:

  • “Worry is believing that God isn’t going to get it right.”
    — Melanie Shankel (12:34)

• On the Influence of Unconditionally Loving Parents:

  • “When they experience that unconditional love at home, they take that confidence out into the world.”
    — Melanie Shankel (24:54)

• On Responding to Bullying:

  • “[Perry] looked at her and he said, ‘This is enough. This is war. You do whatever you have to do... if it gets physical... you punch them in the face and I'll meet you in the [principal’s] office.’”
    — Melanie Shankel (20:46)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:44 — Realizing childhood “normal” isn’t universal
• 06:19-06:51 — The Piper (dog) analogy & setting boundaries
• 07:21-08:21 — Wrestling with Christian teaching vs. honoring self-care
• 09:36-10:31 — How parents can self-reflect and avoid repeating cycles
• 12:34 — The impact of worry and trusting God as the ultimate solution
• 13:44 — Letting God—not mom—be the savior of your children
• 15:20-15:58 — When your own mother is your “mean girl”
• 17:24-21:38 — Navigating and intervening in teen “mean girls” situations
• 22:59–24:54 — Instilling biblical identity and making home a safe place

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Practical Takeaways

• Break unhealthy generational cycles by self-examination, honest forgiveness, and setting godly boundaries—even with family members.
• Saturate your children (and yourself) with Scripture to help define their true identity over culture’s messages.
• Practice radical, unconditional love at home and proactive listening to build confidence and resilience in children.
• Trust God’s path for your child, even in their struggles, resisting the urge to control or “save” them.
• Step in when necessary—model both grace and strength when protecting or advocating for your child.

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Tone and Language

Throughout, the conversation is warm, honest, biblically rooted, and peppered with humor, candor, and practical wisdom. Melanie’s openness about her personal journey, the humor in her stories, and both Jim and John’s empathetic engagement make the episode relatable and encouraging for parents healing from family trauma.

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For more insight, listen to the full episode or check the show notes for resources and Melanie’s book.

Transcript

[Melanie Schenkel]

Your marriage can be healed. A Hope Restored Marriage Intensive from FOCUS on the FAMILY can transform you and your spouse's relationship in just a few days. We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage. Discover [e-mail] or that's hoperestored.com. Are my parents paying attention to me? Are they looking at their phone? Are they engaged? Are they listening to what I have to say? Are they paying attention to who I am? Because I think when they experience that unconditional love at home, then they take that confidence out into the world.

[John Fuller]

Melanie Schenkel is back with us today on this best of 2025 episode of Focus on the FAMILY with Jim Daly talking about how God brought healing and hope for her in her life, in her marriage and her parenting, and how you can set a new path for your family. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.

[Jim Daly]

You know, John, last time we talked with Melanie about how our different upbringings affect the way we live as adults. I've experienced it, you know, being in tune with those snaps, those things that you do and then going, where did that come from? If that's something you're saying to yourself, you need to stop and listen to this program because those are the behaviors that we learn as children from our parents. I'm hoping as a parent, my boys got a lot of positive things, but I don't want to believe that it was all positive. I'm sure I gave them some things that they can work on to be better dads than I was. And that's the attitude we want to talk about today with Melanie, about moms and daughters mostly. But dads, you're part of this, too. And we covered last time a lot of territory. If you haven't heard that yet, I want to encourage you to go back, go to the website, get the download, you can download the app, get our app. And all the episodes are right there. But it would really be helpful to listen in context yesterday's program and today's program. And I'm looking forward to some of the conclusion that Melanie's going to bring to her life story today.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. And she's captured a lot of this in the book Here Be Dragons, Treading the Deep Waters of Motherhood, Mean Girls and Generational Trauma. And of course, we have copies of that book here for you. Just check the show notes and you'll find the links right there.

[Jim Daly]

Melanie. Welcome back to Focus on the Family.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Thank you. Happy to be back.

[Jim Daly]

I really enjoyed our conversation yesterday. And like so many of the viewers and the listeners, I was like, you know, metal to magnet with your comments yesterday. Cause so much of what you're saying I experienced as a child as well. And you know, part of it is just that trauma of what did I go through? And as you said last time, it's kind of as a child, you just think this is normal until you find out it's not. And that's really what you covered. Going to college and seeing normal and your husband Perry coming to visit your mom and him observing, okay, this is not normal. And you know that in many ways there's a hole in your heart because of that. The sadness of what you missed. And that's what we want to do, is to help people become healthier. I mean, I know your heart for your mom, even though she's passed away now, but that would be your heart, that she could have come around, that she could have dealt with these things and become a better believer and a better person because of that. And that's our goal, that we can all do that, especially our own lives. You know, looking at the log in our own life.

[Melanie Schenkel]

That's it.

[Jim Daly]

Let's pick up one of the things you mentioned in the book, or certainly you intimate in the book, is people that go through trauma tend to have a pretty good sense of humor. And I think the reason is I've thought about this because I think it helps. It's coming from the Lord. I believe humor comes from God and I just think he knows it's a coping skill that makes life a little lighter.

[Melanie Schenkel]

It does.

[Jim Daly]

When you can laugh at some things, especially yourself, that's it. That's really healthy. But you had a dog, Piper, I think Piper, Yes. Speak to the humor of this situation, how it applied to the drama you were experiencing with your daughter, with your mom and how you were parenting.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Yeah. So we have two dogs. They are still with us, Piper and Mabel. They are Blue Lacey's, which is actually the state dog of Texas. Most people don't know that. Yes, they are.

[Jim Daly]

What's the state dog of Colorado? I don't know.

[Melanie Schenkel]

I don't know. Listen, I didn't know, but my husband was real proud of that. But they are, to give you an idea, they kind of look like a German shorthair, but they have a blue coat like a Weimaraner. And they are high energy, active dogs. We have a ranch that they Go and run on. And they track. They're great little dogs. Piper, about five years ago, contracted. We started noticing her paw was really inflamed, and we started to notice that it was getting bigger. So we took her to the vet. They ran all kinds of tests, and they said somehow she had contracted some sort of fungal infection through an injury to the paw. And then, you know, she swims in water that is probably not the cleanest down at the ranch. And so the problem kept getting worse. And so we took her to different specialists. We're Aggies. So we took her to Texas A and M, which is the premier vet school, to get them to look at it. And ultimately everybody kept came to the same conclusion, which was, the only way that you're going to stop the disease is to amputate the leg. And we really didn't want to do that because it just feels so extreme. And it's a front leg. She's a big dog. She's an active dog. And so we really thought about, is this the right thing to do? But she was otherwise. They ran all the tests, and they said, this is a perfectly healthy dog, and there's no reason to think that she won't be fine on her three legs. So we waited for about a year, and it got worse. The medication wasn't helping, and so we finally had to make the decision to amputate that leg. And it felt so drastic and so scary to do that to her. And what I will tell you is three hours post surgery, Piper was up running around and did not even know the difference. Even the vet said, this is remarkable. But he said she'd been compensating for that diseased paw for so long that she probably didn't even realize all the ways that it was.

[Jim Daly]

She wasn't putting weight on.

[Melanie Schenkel]

It was keeping her down. And so all of a sudden, she was free. And so that was at this time where I was processing, you know, and I was dealing with, you know, everything with my mom. And I thought, sometimes the only way to bring healing is to cut off the source of the disease. And that was like a sermon that God gave me. It was like a word in the form of a dog amputation, where I thought, man, doesn't this apply to our life? Where sometimes there are relationships, there are places that have just become so toxic and so diseased that the only choice you have to do is to cut off the source of the pain.

[Jim Daly]

Melanie, that has to be such a struggle as a believer, though, because the Lord also says, you know, forgive 70 times 7. I mean, in other words, always forgive. That was his point. So how do you reconcile that? I'm totally on your side, but what a difficult thing to do, such a difficult thing as a believer, especially to say, I'm gonna amputate this relationship because I need to be free of that toxicity that's big. And it's your mom, and it's your mom.

[Melanie Schenkel]

And so you also think, honor your father and mother so that it will go well with you. I mean, that is like one of the commandments that's tied to a direct blessing in the Bible. And those were all things that as a believer, I wrestled with for a long time. Where I landed and what I would encourage anyone if you're in that same situation, was for me, there had been many years leading up to the time that I actually cut off the relationship with my mom. That happened when my daughter Caroline was six. When I made that decision, I was 38 years old. But for me.

[Jim Daly]

And you're trying to protect your daughter,

[Melanie Schenkel]

and I'm trying to protect my daughter, and ultimately I'm trying to protect myself because she's continuing to cause so much chaos that I began to realize I can't be the healthy mom and wife I want to be if my mom is continually coming into my life and creating chaos and making me feel terrible and causing me to have days where I'm down and depressed and crying. And so I had wrestled with it for years, and there had been lots of different behaviors, and I talk about a lot of that in the book, things that had gone on and different things she had done. So I'd had times where I had thought, is this the time that I say I'm done? At one point, years before, I had written probably a 10 page letter of, here are all the things that you have done. And this is why I'm walking away from this relationship. But here's what God kept bringing me back to. When you do this, you have to be able to do it without bitterness and without anger and with forgiveness in your heart, because otherwise you're going to perpetuate the very cycle you're trying to break. And so I personally, by the time I came to that decision, I really was able to say, I forgive you for what you are. I'm not walking away with bitterness. I just can't maintain this relationship for my own health.

[Jim Daly]

Melanie, we touched on this last time, but one of the things these all seem to be. And of course your mom had bipolar, so there is mental illness, all control issues for that mom that's listening right now, and she has that teenager or that 20 something and is exerting that kind of control. How does she get a grip on that? How does she self analyze and say, I am wounding my daughter? I mean, wow.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Yeah, it's a great question. I think one thing for me is one thing my mom always said anytime I would confront her, you know, as I got to be an adult, and I would say, mom, here's what you've done. This is what I can't accept. This is. And she would always say this phrase, I can't think of one single thing I've done, Melanie. I can't think of one. And I thought at that time my daughter was only five and I thought, well, I can think of 50 things that I probably did wrong last week, you know, so it's kind of being aware of our own failings, like, where can I be better? The biggest thing for me is, are you allowing your child to be who God created them to be? Are you allowing them if their personality is different than your personality? You know, because I think as a woman, you have a daughter and you're like, it's going to be a mini version of me. I learned really quickly my daughter is not a mini version of me. I mean, she's got a very distinct personality that's all her own.

[Jim Daly]

But again, that screams control.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Yes, but you have to be able to surrender that control. To surrender it and to trust God with it. And that can be. That's a daily. The amount of times I've prayed for my daughter. Lord, I trust you to smooth out her rough edges and to leave the rough edges where they need to remain, where that's part of who she is. But give me the wisdom to know the difference, because I did not want to suffocate that personality or that will or that spirit in her, in my need to have her look a certain way or to be a certain way or to achieve these certain things. Because ultimately the control is us just seeing that child as a another version of ourselves or an extension of ourselves as opposed to their own separate creation.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. You know, this isn't part of the book, but I'd love your answer to this because I'm thinking of moms, that some of that is fear. It's not just control, it's fear. And I think in the Christian community, particularly as parents, we have a lot of fear for our kids. We fear that they will become drug addicts. We fear that they'll become alcoholics. We fear that they'll get addicted to pornography. They're not unhealthy fears. But the point you're making, I think clearly is the Lord is going to have a path for your child because ultimately he's in control. And we have got to somehow figure out that God, we trust you even in these dark spaces. Now with my 17 year old, my 22 year old. And I think in that moment when you're suffering as a parent because your child has become a prodigal child, how do you manage that fear and turn that into trust and be able to exude that to that child so that when you are making a connection, they feel the Lord's love and your love for them, not agreement on the behavior. I know somebody's gonna say, yeah, but what about. I would say, relax and trust God.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Yes.

[Jim Daly]

And it's so hard to do.

[Melanie Schenkel]

It's so hard to do. But I think I read this. I wish I could credit whoever said it because it wasn't me. But it's geni worry is believing that God isn't gonna get it right. And when I read that, I was like, oh, that is so convicting. Because anytime I'm worrying, it's ultimately about a scenario that I think should work out a certain way. And I think that our kids are gonna walk these hard paths. And for some that's gonna be a prodigal road where you see them walk away from the church or from what they've grown up believing. But you have to love them through that. I mean, to me, the condemnation only pushes them further away. The guilt and shame only pushes them further away. And I think there's a loving way to say, I don't necessarily agree with where you are or the decisions you're making, but I love you and you are always. I always will, I always will. There's nothing you can do that is going to outrun my love. And for them to feel that and to see that example of Christlike love from a parent is to me, sometimes the very thing that can bring them back. The other thing I feel like God really convicted me of with my own daughter, who's 21 now, is I kept wanting to step in to all these situations. And God so clearly said to me, I can't be her savior if you keep trying to be her savior.

[John Fuller]

So he was telling you, you're meddling.

[Melanie Schenkel]

You're basically, get out of my business. You know, because I think we want to protect our kids from all of these things. And sometimes God is like, no, it's these very hard paths and these things that I'm putting in their life that are developing who I want them to be. And it's hard to watch that as a parent.

[Jim Daly]

Right. And as you're describing that unconditional love, who does that fit? That's the Lord.

[Melanie Schenkel]

That's the Lord.

[Jim Daly]

That's us. That's all of us.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Yes.

[Jim Daly]

And so when you demonstrate that you're actually showing the character of God, it doesn't mean you avoid truth. Man, we're so bifurcated in our thinking on this. Like, it has to be all love or all truth. It can be both.

[Melanie Schenkel]

It can be both.

[Jim Daly]

And you need to be able to do that artfully and skillfully as a parent, particularly.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Exactly.

[John Fuller]

Well, we so appreciate Melanie Shankel and the story she's been sharing from her own personal experiences and the insights. Let me just say that her book captures much more than we can present these past couple of days. Here be dragons. Treading the deep waters of motherhood, mean girls and generational trauma. Contact us today to get a copy. The details are in the show notes.

[Jim Daly]

Melanie, you wrote in the book, and John mentioned that title, that portion about mean girls, that realization for you that your mother was the first mean girl in your life, again, a devastating revelation. And I so appreciate your ability as a young person to be able to think that through and come to that conclusion, but speak to that. I mean, wow, that your mom was your mean girl to you.

[Melanie Schenkel]

That's it. And you know, and you don't want to think that, but I've talked to so many women since then that have said, I've had a similar experience where you have your mom as the one who is tearing you down. Your mom is the one that is constantly measuring you, who is competing against you, who is jealous of you, who, for whatever reason, it was such a. I had this weird realization, I think, when I was pregnant with Caroline, and my mom had made the comment to my sister where she said, I'm so tired of Melanie telling me how good her life was or is. And I remember thinking at the time, like, what mother wouldn't want? I wasn't even a mother yet. But I thought. Oh, I thought that I was just telling. I was just sharing life.

[John Fuller]

Yeah, I'm optimistic.

[Melanie Schenkel]

I'm optimistic, and life feels pretty good right now. And she had seen me walk down some hard roads as a teenager and gone through some hard things. So I thought, to be on the other side of that, why wouldn't there be happiness in there? But it was like, her ability. She had a gift of being able to throw away any chance at happiness she ever had. So it made her seem to resent any that I ever found. And I thought, isn't that what a mean girl does? That's a pattern, as you view any other woman's success or accomplishments or achievements is less than maybe you can have for your own, as opposed to, you know, the old thing, a rising tide lifts all boats. Why don't we look at it as one woman's success? Means that's more success that I could ultimately achieve. Or, you know, that she's had great success here, but God has this path for me, and I'm going to have success and achievements on this other road.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, that's a healthy perspective. Unfortunately, we're talking about unhealthy people. And that is a sign, though, for a person that maybe is in the fog about it, just that analysis, to say, is she ever happy that something good in my life is occurring, Whoever she is, could be a mom, a girlfriend, a sister, whatever. Let me ask you, the reflex of this, and what I mean by that is, Caroline, your daughter ends up with mean girls in her life. That's got to be troubling. Like, man, why is this happening now to my daughter? And it happened to me. What was that circumstance and how did you intervene?

[Melanie Schenkel]

It was. You know, it was funny because we got through. I feel like everybody warns you, like, junior high is going to be terrible.

[Jim Daly]

Oh, it was, by the way.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Yeah, it is. Nobody. You don't ever. Nobody ever says, man, you know, the best years of my life, junior high. I mean, those are really hard years. So I was prepared for those years to be hard. We got through those pretty free. It was not bad. When we hit her sophomore year of high school, which, ironically, was a year she had just gotten her braces off. She had just made the varsity soccer team. I was like, life is good. She's got a good group of friends. This is gonna be great. And about a month into that school year, all of a sudden, I started to hear and see just when I would pick her up from school. Cause she still wasn't driving yet. I would pick her up from school, and I could tell something was off. And she would be like, well, this person said this today, or this thing happened. And all of a sudden I started to watch this friend group implode. And I think what's so hard about this as a mom, and so many moms have experienced this, is these were girls that we'd had that I've driven to, you know, slumber Parties and have had sleepover at my house and have been at our house for, you know, before dances and all. I've curled their hair. I've put their makeup on. I've let them eat my good ice cream, you know, and all of a

[Jim Daly]

sudden, not the good stuff.

[Melanie Schenkel]

I mean, even the good stuff. And so all of a sudden, to see this shift was heartbreaking and to try to figure out because as a mom, I never wanted to be the mom that's like, well, my kid wouldn't do anything wrong. So you're trying to, like, ask the questions of, what did you do? Did something happen? What caused this behavior? And it really. The focus was there was one girl, ironically, who was a girl that Caroline felt bad for who she had brought into the group. And this girl, for whatever reason, you know, and why do mean girls do what they do? Out of her own insecurities, her own jealousies, her own brokenness, just went on this attack against Caroline. I mean, just the cruelest. The text messages she sent, the things that she threatened, the fact. And for me as a mom to be able to see where she would send these texts that would say, I don't care what lies I have to tell about you, I will destroy you. I will destroy your reputation. And so I thought, well, she's admitting that she is willing to lie and tell these mistruths. And Caroline was like, I keep trying to talk to her. There's no reasoning with her and the situation. I watched it just escalate over the next two, three, four months, and it was heartbreaking.

[Jim Daly]

How did you coach Caroline to manage this? I mean, that's probably the biggest issue for the parent, because you can make a lot of mistakes as a parent at this point, for sure.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

Cause you want a clean house.

[Melanie Schenkel]

That's it.

[Jim Daly]

Take names.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Yes. Yes. Show up in the schoolyard.

[John Fuller]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

Boom. Let's get this over with.

[Melanie Schenkel]

And that's it is. You're like, how do you. Because we very much wanted to raise her because life is full of difficult people and difficult relationships. So initially you're like, we want her to know how to handle this. She needs to learn how to advocate for herself and. And how to do that. But it got to a point where you're like, this isn't getting any better. Like, she was doing all the things I was saying. Take the high road. You have to remember my people pleaser personality. So I'm like, take the high road. Be kind. Just keep being kind. It's all gonna be fine. And it wasn't getting Better. I mean, it was almost like they just kept. The nicer she was, the more she tried to take the high road. It was almost like the worse it got. There finally came a day, and this is where Perry comes in again. Remember, he.

[John Fuller]

This is your husband?

[Melanie Schenkel]

This is my husband.

[John Fuller]

Previously as being very discern, very discerning.

[Melanie Schenkel]

He's a truth teller. He and Caroline have very similar personalities. So they tend to get each other in a way that sometimes I don't. And there was one day, it had been going on about four months, and she had come home from school. She was sitting there and was crying, telling us about another terrible day where somebody had cornered her in the bathroom and the things they had said. And he looked at her and he said, this is enough. And he said, this is war. And he said, you do whatever you have to do. He said, you tell them the administration that you're gonna go to the administration. He said, and if it gets physical, he said, you punch him in the face and I'll meet you in the. She thankfully, did not have to do that. But what I saw happen when her dad gave her permission to fight back and advocate for herself was like a light went on in her eyes. Like she needed to know it's okay for me to stand up for myself in this situation. Because I think for so long she had just been trying to manage it, and she needed to know it was okay to say enough is enough.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. And I think that environment, too, I mean, that's the place where people are trying to persuade this person to kill themselves, you know, vile stuff.

[Melanie Schenkel]

And we had all of that was

[Jim Daly]

going on and, you know, we have to advocate. It's kind of like, you know, you get a diagnosis, you have to advocate for your own medical well being. I mean, it's a lighter situation, but you've got to get engaged. You can't just stand back. And I'm so glad that your husband did that. You know, some people might disagree with that. I would not. I would say that's the point where you gotta move forward and set the boundaries. Back to your dog's analogy. That's right.

[Melanie Schenkel]

It's the.

[Jim Daly]

And David was a great example of that. There's a part of defending yourself that we need to reinstitute. It's okay. You don't have to take it, take it, take it. And you need the wisdom to know when to do which, really. But when they're encouraging you to take your own life and those kinds of things, and you're a teenager, that's way over the line, Way over the line. What are some ways that parents can help their children understand who God created them to be? And when you look at it, it's about identity. And that's something Gene and I have tried to make sure Trent and Troy understand your identity in Christ.

[Melanie Schenkel]

That's it.

[Jim Daly]

But it takes a lot of forethought as a parent to connect things. How would you do that?

[Melanie Schenkel]

I think one of the things we tried to tell Caroline from early on is to feed scripture into her life, where it's like, you are God's workmanship. You were created for a purpose. You know, he has a road. He wants you to walk, like you are wonderfully and fearfully created, like you are exactly who you were supposed to be for this time, for this generation. So can we look at life out of. We always tried to raise her to have an abundance mentality instead of a scarcity mentality of God has abundant things for you. He has abundant life for you to find her identity and who he created her to be. Because I think the world wants to tell, especially I feel like our young women, so many messages about what they're supposed to be or, you know, how they're supposed to look or what success really looks like. But we're like, no, this is what God says are the most important things, like for you to model the fruits of the spirit, for you to operate out of joy and peace and kindness and patience. And I think that's so important. I think the other thing that a parent can do, and one thing we really tried to do is home should always be their safest place. You know, just a place where, you know you are unconditionally loved. Your whole self is welcome here. We're going to walk you through any hard road. We're going to listen. You know, I think that's. We're going to listen and not just preach, but we're going to actually listen to how you're feeling about things and what's going on with you. Because a wise older mentor told me when Caroline was little, she said you have to listen to her when she's young, because if you don't listen to her now, she's not going to talk talk to you later. And that was so smart because, you know, sometimes when they're four and they're telling you about their dream from the night before, you're like, oh, my gosh, how long is this going to go on? But it's true, but it's true. Like, they start to pay it. Like, are my parents paying attention to me? Are they looking at their phone? Are they engaged? Are they listening to what I have to say? Are they paying attention to who I am? Because I think when they experience that unconditional love at home, then they take that confidence out into the world.

[Jim Daly]

Caroline today is doing fine. She's in college.

[Melanie Schenkel]

She's in college. All during high school. The thing you say as a parent, you're like, you don't want to peak in high school. This isn't the time. You don't want this to be the high point.

[Jim Daly]

It's a really amazing thing. They tend to come around.

[Melanie Schenkel]

They tend to come around. And I was like, when you get to college, you're going to find it's a bigger pool. You're going to find more people that share your interest. You're going to find people that have the same spiritual depth that you do. And that has really been true for her.

[Jim Daly]

Mellie, this has been so good. Thanks for your openness and your boldness, you know, Day two, here we never said it, but here be dragons. It relates to the old maps in antiquity that would be done where shipwrecks would be found. And they would consider them a dark thing, a dragon thing. And they would mark it as here be dragons. Be careful. And what a great life map example that is for all of us. Not just moms and daughters, but dads and sons and the whole family. So thank you for being with us today.

[Melanie Schenkel]

And lastly, thank you so much for having me. Really enjoyed it.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. And if this is resonating with you, which should only be about 90% of the listeners and watchers, get a copy of Melanie's book Here be dragons. Treading the deep waters of mean girls and generational trauma. Just put your hand up. If that applies to you. Get ahold of us. And if you can make a gift of any amount or make it monthly, we'll send you a copy of her book as our way of saying thank you. And I often do this if you're in a place where you can't afford it. You know, we're a Christian ministry. We'll get the book into your hands and trust that other believers who support Focus will add a little extra to take care of the cost of that.

[John Fuller]

Yeah, your generosity is appreciated. You can donate via the show notes. The link is right there. Or give us a call. 800 the letter A and the word family. And if you enjoyed this program, we have an entire audio collection featuring 20 of our best of 2025 show. This free collection features encouragement to overcome trauma, refresh your marriage, improve your parenting, and grow in your faith. You'll hear from our most popular guests like Michelle Neidert, the late Gregory Jantz, British evangelist J. John Lee Strobel, Dr. Gary Chapman, Sheila Walsh, and more. Look for that free audio collection in the show Notes. Plan to join us next time. We'll hear from Becky Harling. She'll have thoughts about the lost art of listening.

[Melanie Schenkel]

Most of us want to be able to express what we're feeling and be able to figure out what we're feeling and be able to figure out the answer to our own problems. So as you're drawing them out and they're processing, they will come up with the solution. And then it gives you an opportunity to affirm like, hey, that's a great way to solve this.

[John Fuller]

Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

[Jim Daly]

Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us, and it's our job as believers to share his truth with a world in need. I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. [e-mail].