← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Helping Your Child Approach Anxiety, Bullying, and Identity
00:27:17
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- [00:01]
Jim Daly
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- [00:32]
Melanie Shankel
In our minds, we don't want them to face lions and bears because it's hard to watch them. You know, we just want it to be so easy. But when we look at our own lives, we're like, wasn't it our lions and bears that built our faith and trust in God? And so why are they going to be any different?
- [00:46]
John Fuller
Well, coming of age in today's world brings a whole new set of challenges. And today on FOCUS on the Family with Jim Daly, you'll hear one young adult's perspective on the pressures facing teens and young adults and how, how to trust God for your future. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
- [01:03]
Jim Daly
Well, along with that one perspective is her mother, who's been on the broadcast before. So I'm looking forward to this dynamic. We've done this a couple of times now, and it's great to see the 20 somethings rising and coming in and doing the interviews with us. This is great. But so often for young people, I mean, bullying is a hot button issue for so many parents, and it's really distressing for all of us if your kids are in that position. Thankfully for Gene and I, Trent and Troy really didn't face anything like that. We were grateful for the school they were in, for the education they received and for the environment they had. It was pretty powerful. But according to national surveys, bullying affects about 20% of kids ages 12 to 18. 20%. That's a big number. And then in addition to that, cyberbullying is experienced by almost 60% of children. And that's, you know, out of control, I would say. And that's not the pressure that our young people are facing. Almost 40% of young people report always feeling, always feeling uncertain about the future, anxious about important decisions, and afraid to fail. That's all Barna research. And that's amazing. Let's think of First Peter 5:7, which instructs us to cast our cares upon the Lord, for he cares for you. Isn't that awesome? And what a great reminder for all of us. So I'm looking forward to this discussion.
- [02:27]
John Fuller
Yeah. And Caroline Shankel is a new author and a recent grad of Texas A and M, where She's doing her Master's. She's just 22. And we're so glad to have her here as she shares from her own perspective and experiences. And Jim, as you indicated, Caroline's mom is here, Melanie Shankel. And she's been with us before. She's a best selling author and co host of a very popular podcast, the Big Boo Cast. And Carolyn's book, the lion and The Bear, a 100 day devotional for facing youg Giants really serves as the basis for our conversation today. Find out more about Caroline Shankel and her mom Melanie at our website.
- [03:05]
Jim Daly
Welcome to both of you. Good to have you on Focus on the Family.
- [03:08]
Caroline Shankel
Hello. Thank you for having us.
- [03:10]
Melanie Shankel
We're excited to be here.
- [03:11]
Jim Daly
Now this is like the fruit not falling far from the tree, right? Mom author, now daughter author. Did she inspire you? I'm giving you a softball here.
- [03:19]
Caroline Shankel
Yes, she definitely did inspire me. She did.
- [03:22]
Jim Daly
It's not that every family has writers. It's kind of a hard thing to, to write a book. It's not easy. So did you see that mountain and go, I could do this. If mom can do it, I could do it.
- [03:32]
Caroline Shankel
You know, honestly, I don't know if that's really. I think it kind of came from. I remember when I was younger, people used to always ask like, oh, are you gonna follow in your mom's footsteps? Are you gonna do this? And I was like, no, I'm not gonna do that. I have a science brain. I'm gonna go be a veterinarian or do something else. That was kind of always my mentality. And then, God, you know, just kind of worked. And there was just a lot of different things that happened. And all of a sudden I started looking and being like, oh, well, I think she was the one who told me she looked at something I had written for my roommate for her birthday and she was like, my condolences. But you're a writer. Like, I hate to say that's what her words. And then, yeah, I kind of. I feel like that was kind of once someone actually called that out in me and was like, hey, you can do this.
- [04:17]
Jim Daly
That's good.
- [04:18]
Caroline Shankel
That's kind of where it came from.
- [04:19]
Jim Daly
Yeah, that's so good. And again, it's. It's quite an achievement to write a book. The lion and the Be. This is a true story. The other night, my boys and I, we were talking about who would win in a fight, a lion or a bear. I mean, it's so bizarre. And here your title is How'd you come up with your title.
- [04:34]
Caroline Shankel
So my title actually came from. It started my. I started hearing this my sophomore year of high school when I was going through some hard times and bullying and I was dealing with a lot of struggles. And one time I was sitting at the dining room table with my parents because, you know, we always would debrief and talk about all the things. And my dad started saying when something hard would happen, he'd always look at me and he would say, the lion and the bear. Basically what it meant was he was talking about the story of David and Goliath and just how God sent David the lion and the bear before he faced his Goliath. And my dad was just like, all these trials and all these struggles you are going through are preparing you for something greater, you know, And I think that's where I looked at it, and it was the perspective of when I was facing hard times, of, this is my line and this is my bear to prepare me to fight the giant later on.
- [05:19]
Jim Daly
That's great context for how to attack life. Getting to that. So many people think of your high school years or junior high years as perhaps the best years of your life. I'm not sure that I ever met that person. But high school can be, you know, can be buoyant. It's a good time. It can be fun. But there does seem to be a lot of pressure. Something that doesn't seem to change is the attacks of young people on other young people. You know, for boys, it tends to be physical, you know, but paint that picture. And what were you experiencing in high school?
- [05:52]
Caroline Shankel
I think there was a lot of. With girls being younger, and even now I still see it. There's a lot of different politics and dynamics of how you need to perform or what you need to say or how you should react to a certain situation. And when you're in friend groups that are maybe where it's an unhealthy dynamic and you don't react the way a girl wants you to react, or you don't lean into the drama, or you don't lean in there becomes almost this thing of people want to try to alienate you. I feel like a lot of what I experienced was I would be in a friend group. There was a girl that maybe we had issues where we didn't get along super well. And the goal was, how can I cut this girl out? You know, that was. It was a lot of like, how can I exclude this girl from going to this? Or how can I do that? That was some big things that I Feel like I experienced. And it was really tough, especially with phones and stuff, because instead of just hearing about it in the hallways or maybe never knowing about it, you usually have your friends, locations, so you're looking on a Friday night and seeing all your friends hang out without you, or you're seeing them post on Instagram that they're all at the movies or at this restaurant and you're not. And so I think it was a lot of these kind of trying to make. To make you feel isolated and make you feel alone a little bit. And I think it's a lot of trying to appeal to certain emotional dynamics. And with drama, it was just this thing of they were looking for a fight. You know, they'd try to say something and they'd want you to say something mean back, or they'd want you to fight back. And trying to. It was always hard trying to combat that with kind of logic and reasoning. Like, I think my dad was always just kind of like, try to take your emotion out of it and look at it factually and just try to explain it to them logically on how. What's going on, what this means. And I think that it was not received well by a lot of girls. I think those dynamics are really hard.
- [07:33]
Jim Daly
You know what's tough hearing that is. And I mean this in kind of a cultural way, the formation of that. I mean, it sets you up to be a herd mentality person. You got to go with the herd. That's really dangerous for culture, dangerous for Christians.
- [07:50]
Caroline Shankel
Absolutely.
- [07:51]
Jim Daly
Where we're training one another to be part of the in crowd.
- [07:55]
Caroline Shankel
Go with the flow. Don't keep your head down, please, people. That's kind of. And it's like, that's dangerous.
- [08:00]
Jim Daly
Yeah. Because I think on the bigger issues of Christian ethos, that puts you in a weird spot. If you're going to say, hey, you know, I'm not going to have sex before I'm married. I'm going to do all I can to prevent that from happening. And then you're ostracized for that. But I mean, in all that context, Melanie, as a parent, what do we do? I mean, it sounds like your husband's done and I'm sure you as well, just a good job. And I'll come back to you in a minute about those inoculations that work and maybe things that don't work. But Melanie.
- [08:32]
Melanie Shankel
Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing is when you know your child is going through a hard time or you're starting to see these friend dynamics I mean, number one, we always paid really close attention to who is she hanging out with? Because I think so much at that age, your identity is so wrapped up in who your friends are and what they're doing. And so, you know, we always tried to keep an eye on who is her group, who's she spending time with, what kind of girls do these seem like? And I think it's what startles you is. Cause what started off, I was like, these are girls that I've had in our home that we've spent time with. I've curled their hair before the homecoming dance. Like, how did this turn? So, but then I think when you start to see that, I think, number one, you have to take an honest look at your child. I think that's one thing as a parent where you're like, what's your role in this? Like, how could you be better? Are there ways that you can manage it better? And then when you start to realize, no, we are taking the high road. We really are trying to handle this, then at that point, I think you have to figure out. And this is where Perry, my husband and I really had to figure out what was the best way for her personality to handle it. Because I tend to be such a people pleaser. So I kept saying, just kill him with kindness. Just keep taking the high road. It's going to be fine. And that was okay for a while, but at some point, it was like, it's not getting any better. So I think you have to pay attention to how your child needs to handle something.
- [09:50]
Jim Daly
And so what if Perry strings. I'm interested. So Perry said, lay the hammer down.
- [09:55]
Caroline Shankel
That's basically he. I remember it was. It had been like three consecutive months of these girls being mean to me, and just there was no end in sight, you know? And I just. I didn't know what to do at this point. I'm like, I'm doing what all the adults are telling me to do. I'm trying to be kind, and I'm trying to just keep my head down and ignore them. And yet they were. I mean, girls were finding me in bathrooms and cornering me in, bullying me and saying, meaning. I mean, it just was like.
- [10:18]
Melanie Shankel
It was terrible.
- [10:19]
Caroline Shankel
It was rough. And I was like, I'm being kind. I'm not trying to. I'm not saying anything mean to you. I'm not talking about you. I've blocked you on my phone. I don't know what else to do. And finally I was looking. I was talking to my dad about it. And he finally just looks at me and he just goes in his super calm way. Not actually, but he was like, this means war. And like, for me, that was almost a light bulb that went off because I realized me trying to keep my head down and just please all these people and avoid confrontation is not true to who I am and who God wired me to be. And I realized it's okay to advocate for yourself, and it's okay to show people that you're not going to tolerate, you know, that being cornered in the bathroom and called terrible things, you know? And I think there's a respectful way to do it, of course. But I finally, just the next day, I think I literally went up to one of the girls, you know, when we were in that bathroom, and she came in, like she always does, because she followed me in there, and. And I was just like, hey, you can't treat me this way. I don't know what's going on, but this is not okay. And I'm not okay with this. And if you keep doing this, I'm getting the school involved. Like, I'm going to have to get the school involved, and this isn't going to end well for you. I was like, cyberbullying's become technically illegal, and I have records that you, in fact, did that. I'm like, you could get expelled or suspended for this, and you need to know that before this goes any further, you know? And it was just advocating.
- [11:38]
Jim Daly
How was that response?
- [11:40]
Caroline Shankel
I think she thought I was bluffing.
- [11:42]
Jim Daly
Okay?
- [11:42]
Caroline Shankel
And I wasn't. And, you know, and I think that was, like, kind of. It was a little bit of a. Well, I don't know. I mean, maybe. But then I really did. I had to get the school involved, which I think was really hard for me because it almost. From a pride thing, it almost was like, am I a snitch? Like, did I. Did I lose? You know, is this not. But I was like, this is beyond just.
- [12:00]
Melanie Shankel
Yeah.
- [12:01]
Jim Daly
I mean, boundaries arguing.
- [12:02]
Caroline Shankel
Like, this is a healthy boundary that I need to have. And after that, I mean, we really were like. After that, she really did leave me alone. It finally got to the point where I was like, okay, now that I advocated for myself, and I told her, I'm not gonna tolerate this, and I will take measures in order to make sure this doesn't happen. I learned it's okay to advocate and be strong and do it in a respectful way, in a way that honors God and not calling anyone names or anything, but you can still do it, right? And I think that was a good thing.
- [12:29]
Jim Daly
And Jesus did it with the Pharisees.
- [12:31]
Caroline Shankel
Yes, absolutely.
- [12:32]
Jim Daly
Well.
- [12:32]
John Fuller
And who knows how many other people she was bullying. Exactly. So you probably helped shut down some systemic bullying.
- [12:39]
Jim Daly
Caroline, let me ask you another thing we didn't mention in the open there, especially again, in that female relationship context comparison. Guys have this too, but for us, it's more athletic, I think, you know, but speak to that. And you encountered a young lady who was bullying you and you started looking a little more deeply what happened with her.
- [13:02]
Caroline Shankel
I think the thing with comparison, too, this is where I first started realizing, or it's where kind of my whole thing with comparison kind of I started thinking more about it or thinking deeply. For me, it was first in college when I was going into being an animal science major and going into the ag school. And I did not grow up in the ag world necessarily. And everyone I was with did in Texas. And so in Texas, at Texas A and M, of course. And so they weren't going into it knowing all of this stuff. And they had all these scholarships and all these different things. And I remember I was talking to my professor and I was like, I don't know what to do. Like, she's doing this and she's doing this. And he just kind of looked at me and he was like, hey, comparison is the thief of joy. And I was like, oh. And it was just a light bulb for me almost of this. Like, I've been so busy comparing myself to others, I'm forgetting my own assets and what I have and the joy that I have and how God created me. And I think it's something that's so common with girls, but it's this. I feel like there's so much comparison in either in looks and in accomplishments. And even I faced it even in sports, like with soccer and stuff. I mean, we were all vying for scholarships, we were all vying for college coaches attention. We weren't working as a team. We were trying to just be the best individual we could be. And it usually caused us to lose games because of it, you know. But I remember there was one girl specifically where it was just a lot of. She was a friend, but it was a lot of comments about just maybe the way I would look or something I would do. And it just made me feel a little insecure or. And I was like, this doesn't feel kind. And then one day we were at her home and her mother did it to her in front of me. And all of a sudden I was just like, this is where this comes from the root. And I think that was something super important. And it also kind of goes back into advocating. And when I was dealing with my other mean girl stuff in high school is there's a reason they're treating you the way that they are, and there's a reason they've learned that. And that's super important to remember, because we always say, we're not even that good with Jesus. Now, imagine that's fair. And so it's like, you realize you're dealing with people who are really hurting and really struggling, and you have to have a level of empathy and a level of compassion and care for them while you advocate.
- [15:15]
Jim Daly
That's really good.
- [15:16]
Caroline Shankel
That was kind of. My eyes opened to that when I saw what she was dealing with at home, and I was like, oh, there's a reason she feels the need to do this to me. You know, there's something going on in her heart, and there's hurt there that she's passing on to others because she's been having to struggle with it. And so I think that was super important to remember.
- [15:33]
Jim Daly
Another strangulation. And I use that word very specifically because it's dramatic. It's perfectionism and anxiety. And you write about that in the book as well. These are great topics for young people, that area of perfectionism. I think so many Christians fall into that. We're trying to live up to the standard of Jesus. Well, guess what? He was perfect. We're not gonna get there, but we're striving to be better as we progress, to be the better person more like Jesus every day. Some days we'll do well, some days we'll do poorly. But speak to that idea of perfectionism. And how did you wrestle that to the ground to say, okay, I don't have to be perfect?
- [16:16]
Caroline Shankel
That was something I really struggled with in high school, especially in sports. For me, it definitely came out in soccer the most, is I remember there were games where. I remember. There's one specifically. It was my sophomore year when I was going through all my mean girls stuff. But I had made the varsity team, and I was one of the smallest, youngest players on the team. And we were playing our rival, and my coach kind of came up to me, and he was like, it's on you tonight. Like, he put a ton of pressure
- [16:40]
Jim Daly
on you, put the whole team on you.
- [16:41]
Caroline Shankel
I panicked. Like, I was so scared of messing up, that basically I got on the field and I just shut down. Like, I barely played, you know, and people were like, it was so low. Effort. It was so this. And I'm like, it wasn't low effort. I was just scared. Like, I didn't want to mess up. And I was so anxious and I finally just. I started coming to the conclusion and it was a quote, and I wish I had it down and knew it immediately, but it was Teddy Roosevelt and it was the man in the arena.
- [17:07]
Jim Daly
Yeah, that's a great quote, is the
- [17:08]
Caroline Shankel
quote which is my favorite. And I live by it like I have it in my room. But I finally started just realizing I'm not going to be perfect and I'm going to make mistakes, and I would much rather go all out and do the best I can and mess up than be too scared not to do it. And I was always worried about people judging me or people making fun of me. And it just was that, you know, it says in the quot cold, timid souls that will never know victory nor defeat. And it's like I would so much rather try than not know either, you know, and who are they to sit back and judge me for giving it my all and being the best I can be?
- [17:43]
Jim Daly
That's so good. Yeah, they're too timid to get into the arena, but they're very vocal about coaching the arena.
- [17:49]
Caroline Shankel
And so it was kind of working through that. And it was also just thing of just knowing it's okay to mess up sometimes, you know, like, that's how you learn. I feel like I've learned more through shanking a soccer ball all the way over there than I did when I scored a goal, you know, And I think that that was just an important thing for me to have to work through and overcome and be comfortable with rejection, be comfortable with failure, be comfortable with, like, you have to become comfortable with that in order to get better, you know?
- [18:15]
Jim Daly
Well, again, these are great themes. Perfectionism, anxiety, comparison, all the things we're talking about. Melanie, you ring the bell for the parents here because you're saying, be careful not to reinforce these things. And you gave a couple of examples where you might say, well, you play better than that guy. I wonder why you're not first string. I mean, that is a great thing, particularly for dads to think about. And then you had an example with daughters. Well, you're prettier than her. Why would they say that about you? I mean, even those little subtle things that we can say that reinforce comparison and anxiety. How do we mind our own tongue as parents in this environment?
- [18:53]
Melanie Shankel
Yeah, I mean, I think you have to really encourage your child. I mean, one of the Things we learned. And one of the conversations we. Of those soccer games where we had watched her, and we were like, what's going on? And she kind of, you know, through talking to her, she was like, but I'm afraid I'm gonna mess up. And what we said to her is like, we would rather you fail spectacularly. Like, we would rather you go out in a blaze of glory and screw up than to play so timid that you're not being true to yourself. And I think that's true with life. And these kids, this generation, my friends and I that are raising kids the same age. Marvel. Cause we're like, where did this come from? All this pressure to get it right the first time, and that everything has to be. We didn't seem. And I don't know if it's a social media thing, if it's just because there is so much comparison where you can see people your age and what they're doing all the time. But it's like, we've got to let our kids know, hey, you need to try, and you're not gonna get it right. I didn't get it right the first time. You're not gonna get it right the first time. And that's okay.
- [19:49]
Jim Daly
I agree. I think the challenge for some parents watching and listening would be that, you know, where's that bottom?
- [19:55]
Melanie Shankel
Yeah.
- [19:56]
Jim Daly
To be fair, and you think, you know, this is true. You don't have to be perfect. We just need. Your heart needs to be in and keep trying. But there are going to be some parents that their kids are falling below that line for sure. And you're going, can you try a little bit?
- [20:10]
Melanie Shankel
Yeah.
- [20:10]
Jim Daly
I mean, I didn't mean to go that far down. Speak to that when you were beginning to get anxious as parents because they're falling below a performance that is healthy.
- [20:21]
Melanie Shankel
And I think that is the line. That's where you have to know your child and know, I know you can do better than this. I know that you have more than this. Because what we always said with her is, we never expect you to be perfect. We do expect your best effort. Like, it doesn't have to be 100% perfection or you don't have to achieve everything, but we need to see you working to the best of your ability and what that is and kind of keeping an eye on where, you know, your kids can be better. And I think there are times as a parent, I think that we want to just be cheerleaders all the time and just be like, you're amazing. You're the best. You're great. But then there's times to be a coach and to be really honest and say, here are some ways that I see you failing and not thriving, and here are some ways you need to do better. Whether that's. I don't like this group of friends that you're hanging out with. I don't like your study habits and the way you're letting your grades fall. It's okay to have those honest conversations.
- [21:12]
Jim Daly
Yeah. And I think too, Jean did this really well. My wife, you know, she, in elementary school, noticed Trent was kind of hanging with the rough crowd in the playground. The rock throwers.
- [21:23]
Melanie Shankel
That's right, those rock.
- [21:25]
Jim Daly
And she was like. And she happened to be volunteering in the playground, so she was observing this. So she asked a couple of other parents that they'd like to do Bible study together with the kids. And you know, to her credit, really, those kids are now 25, but they've grown up together. They're in each other's weddings now. You know, they're best of friends. That little Bible study group that came out of the rock throwing behavior on the playground. But it's just being aware and how do we create. It can be that subtle. It's more difficult as children get into their teens to try to control that environment.
- [21:59]
Caroline Shankel
It is.
- [22:00]
Jim Daly
Caroline, let me end with you. You've heard the do's and don'ts, but let me ask you, as the recipient of Melanie's parenting and your dad's, what are the do's and don'ts there? Things that work for young people. Things that may not work. If I can give you that quick
- [22:17]
Caroline Shankel
rap sheet, I think the first thing, and this is one I always say that was so great for me in high school was just the way I felt so unconditionally loved, like, and that was. It was very important. And at the time, I don't know if I. I mean, in high school, you're not necessarily thinking about all this and being so appreciative because sometimes you don't know what you have. But knowing that after a hard day, I could come home and I knew for a fact that there would be a home cooked meal for me. I knew for a fact that if I stained my favorite pants that she'd be able to get that out, you know, that, like, there's just little things where it's like there was such a confidence in knowing, like, my parents were gonna be there and they were going to be caring for me. And I think that's so important. And some Encouragement, I would also say to parents is there were times where at high school, I always had to have, like, this mask on, and I had to pretend like everything's okay. And the moment I got home, I knew I was safe. And that mask kind of came off a little bit, you know, And I was just a little bit. I was a moody teenager. And I think so often that's the side parents see, because their kids feel safer with them than they do at school. Maybe if that makes. Is this making sense to you, all of that. But I think there's a level of encouragement of know that what you're doing is working and don't be discouraged if that happens. Because I, like, now in college, I come back and I'm so grateful for everything my parents did. And I think, too, also, just the way that y'. All. I'm losing my train now.
- [23:40]
Jim Daly
You sound that Texas A and M girl.
- [23:42]
Caroline Shankel
I know. I'm like, the aim is coming all y'.
- [23:44]
Jim Daly
All.
- [23:44]
Caroline Shankel
Let me tell y'. All. And I think, too, the way you always knew when to critique and when to parent and when to also build up and encourage. Cause I've seen so much with my friends where their parents will just nag and nag and nag and tell them to do this and tell them to do that, and it's out of love. But there's also needs to be a balance of being a cheerleader and building up and knowing that your parents want what's best for you. And so I think, like, the fact that y' all were able to do that for me, and I always knew, okay, they're telling me this, but I know that they love and care about me still. This is just something I need to work on.
- [24:17]
Jim Daly
It's almost that old adage, you have to fill that cup up so that when we as parents extract a little bit in terms of performance that you're taking out of your abundance of knowing you're loved, et cetera, that's a good reminder for parents, particularly, make sure your. Your children know that they're loved.
- [24:34]
Caroline Shankel
Yes.
- [24:34]
Melanie Shankel
You've got to build the relationship. Because to me, if you just focus on the rules without the relationship, I think it can create this resistance, you know? But I think when they know, like, hey, I'm telling you no, because I genuinely love you and care for you, and this is not a good decision. You know, it just. It comes. They may still not like the. No, but it comes with a little more understanding of that. You really do have their best interest at heart.
- [24:56]
Jim Daly
Well, so very Good. If you're that parent going, wow, I need to apply this, get in touch with us, we'll make it easy. I mean, this is great content. Not only that, I think you could see the benefits of what Perry and Melanie have done. And Carolyn, you just, you show it so well. I'm proud of you. Really? As a 22 year old.
- [25:15]
Caroline Shankel
Yes, sir.
- [25:16]
Jim Daly
Not to throw your age out there for the whole world.
- [25:18]
Caroline Shankel
How dare I not? It's fine.
- [25:19]
Jim Daly
No, but you know, you just. Yeah, you would be every parent's dream in terms of how you're handling yourself. And well done. Way to absorb all that and to learn from it. To write a book, the lion and The Bear, a 100 day guide for facing your giants. Why don't you just get in touch with us, make a gift of $10 and we'll send you the book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry and you get a great resource. As John said in the beginning, not just for your teens or 20 somethings, but for anybody in your life, including yourself, that might struggle with boundaries.
- [25:53]
John Fuller
Yeah, this is a great devotional book. And as you said, Jim, it's not just for kids. My wife Dina and I had three daughters. They're now young adults. I kind of wish we would have had this resource to help them stay rooted in their identity in Christ during those tumultuous, pivotal years. You know, we have so many resources here for you at Focus on the Family, from our amazing team of caring Christian counselors to resources like Caroline's book. If you'd like to talk with somebody about where you're at as a family, if something we said today has really touched you and you're feeling a need to grow through that, but you're not sure who to turn to, please know our donor community makes it possible for us to give you a call back and have a counselor listen to you, speak with you and pray with you. Get in touch with one of our counselors or donate and get a copy of this wonderful book from Caroline. The lion and the Bear. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family, where you'll find us on our website and we've got the links in the show notes. And next time plan to join us to hear a miraculous story. Sarah Zagorski survived an abortion and became a very strong pro life advocate.
- [27:07]
Caroline Shankel
So I had to go through a lot of healing and recovery from that time in my life. But my Christian foster care parents, later adoptive parents, provided that support. There were times as a teenager I was suicidal. I mean, it wasn't pretty, you know, but it was Christ throughout it and them alongside me.
- [27:24]
John Fuller
On behalf of the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, I'm John Fuller inviting you back. As we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [27:48]
Melanie Shankel
Your marriage can be healed. A Hope restored Marriage Intensive from Focus on the Family can transform you and your spouse's relationship in just a few days.
- [27:59]
Caroline Shankel
We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage.
- [28:10]
Melanie Shankel
Discover more at hoperestored. Com. That's hoperestored. Com.