← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
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- [00:01]
Jim Daly
Well, today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we'll be exploring what it means to live a radical life as a follower of Jesus Christ. And our guest shares one example of what radical living looks like.
- [00:13]
Greg Steer
Tim O said, I want you to go to the mall on a busy Friday night, and I want you to sit there. I'm 12 years old at the time. I'm like, okay. And I want you to watch people for 30 minutes, and I want you to put an imaginary tag on their forehead that reads bound for help. First few minutes, I feel self conscious. They look at me watching them. They're watching me watch them. But then I start imagining Bound for hell. And I'm seeing all the people pass by. And within 30 minutes, I was bawling my eyes out because I could see that sign bound for hell. And I knew what life on this side of eternity was like without Christ. And that's what they were experiencing.
- [00:56]
Jim Daly
That's Greg Steere, a youth ministry leader who wants to motivate and equip you as a believer to live out a revolutionary life and walk in faith with God as he's called us to do. Welcome to the show. Your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly. And I'm John Fuller.
- [01:12]
John Fuller
You know, John, Jesus truly was a radical. And we don't often think of him in that context, but especially in modern Christianity, I think we've kind of lost that vibe, you know, that he was this radical guy, that man set women free. He did so much to kind of wreck, revolutionize the world. Right. And he was also that rabbi who said, love your enemies and healed the lepers, the blind. I mean, he was the guy. And that's why history remembers him the way that we do. And the gospel is still revolutionary today. And I'm not sure we as Christians understand it in quite the same way as the first second century. And our guest today is going to talk about that radical nature of God. He's written a book called Radical Like 21 Challeng to Live a Revolutionary Life. This is one you want to kick back, grab that cup of coffee and listen to.
- [02:06]
Jim Daly
Yeah. And Greg Steer is the founder and visionary for Dare to Share Ministries. And he spent more than 30 years training youth leaders and students in relational evangelism. And he walks the talk. You can learn more about Greg and Dare to Share and this book, Radical Like Jesus. We've got the details for you in the show notes.
- [02:24]
John Fuller
Greg, welcome back to focus.
- [02:25]
Greg Steer
So glad to be back here.
- [02:27]
John Fuller
Yeah, it's good. Just a little drive from Denver for you.
- [02:29]
Greg Steer
A beautiful, beautiful drive.
- [02:31]
John Fuller
That's excellent. Okay, let's get into it. I mean, how would you define the word radical? What does that mean in the Christian context?
- [02:40]
Greg Steer
You know, I didn't call the book radical for Jesus because we don't need any more radicals for Jesus. We need to be radical like Jesus. And he was radical on every level. I mean, he loved the unlovable. He reached out to the bad, the broken, the bullied and the bullies. He spoke truth. I mean, dropped the Beatitudes, you know, Matthew 5. I mean, just reverberated throughout the crowd. Did the radical gospel of grace that we're saved not by works, but by faith. I mean, everything about Jesus was radical. The way he loved, the way he stood for truth. I mean, he purified the temple at the beginning of his ministry, at the end of his ministry.
- [03:17]
John Fuller
Yeah, it's so good. You know, I had these experiences like you early in my Christian walk where I would spend the night out in the desert and pray to the Lord. You had a similar experience with, I think a mountaintop experience that you. While writing the book or something. What happened?
- [03:35]
Greg Steer
I'm writing this book. I normally go to Estes Park. My in laws have a timeshare up there. So we're up there and I try to write in the mountains. I'm just motivated by them. And I'm doing all these chapters about the life of Jesus and I stumble on the passage where Jesus spent the night in the mountains praying to God. And I'm like, well, I've never done that. So I went to the YMCA of the Rockies and I did a three hour hike. You can actually get into the Rocky Mountain National Park. I did pay my fee, by the way.
- [04:02]
John Fuller
It's a great spot.
- [04:03]
Greg Steer
Three hours into the Rocky Mountain national park and sat on a boulder and tried to pray all night. I emphasized try because I did doze off a few times. So I thought maybe I called the book typical like Peter instead of radical like Jesus, because he fell asleep too. But it was a powerful experience, praying all night. I should have chosen a night. The moon was out, it was completely dark. But it really gave me a view of Jesus and his commitment to prayer.
- [04:33]
John Fuller
Yeah. Why do you think that is? Again, I said that, you know, this is back in college when I did that Joshua Tree National Park. Now, I don't know why I didn't choose the mountains. That sense I went to the desert. But there is something amazing about that solitary time when God, it's like he honors that person that will Dedicate that time and search for him and seek him.
- [04:55]
Greg Steer
I think so. And I think we live in such a busy world where everybody is on their phones or they're driving somewhere or they're late to a meeting to get away and to get with God and to pray, and not just all night on the mountaintop. But, you know, Luke 5 says that Jesus, his habit was withdrawing to pray. I mean, you wouldn't want to invite Jesus to be a camp speaker or a conference speaker because he'd be out wandering around somewhere praying. And why is that? Because I think that's what intimacy with God. He was getting direction from his Father and he was interceding. And what a lesson to us. And it really humbled me, really studying the life of Jesus and saying, how can I live this out? Because I think that's the key is first, John 2:6 says, if we claim to abide in it, we must walk as Jesus walked. And so we have the same Holy Spirit. And it's Christ in us and through us, according to Galatians 2:20. So why are we not doing this?
- [05:50]
John Fuller
Well, that's the 50,000 foot question, right? Some people listening right now are going, okay, he's God. He had this mission. He knew much more than I know. I'm just a simple human being for that person. How would you encourage them to be more radical like Jesus? Because I think as human beings, we fail, you know, kind of fold into a groove and we go to school, we get a job, we work, we get married, we have family, and, you know, it just keeps rolling. I don't think we see ourselves as radicals.
- [06:21]
Greg Steer
Well, if we allow Christ to live through us. So the illustration I use is from Major Ian Thomas. This is an old illustration. If I had a work glove in my hands right now. The problem with the work glove is the work glove doesn't work. If I just lay it on the table, it doesn't work right. It just lays there as soon as you put the hand in the glove. Now the glove can do anything the hand can do. So it's Christ in us. Jesus said, apart from me, you could do nothing. But if every day, throughout the day we are filled with his Spirit, then is Christ living through us. I have an alarm on my watch seven times a day. It just vibrates and says, get filled. And so remind myself, Lord, get filled with the Spirit. DL Moody said we must constantly stay under the fountain of Christ because we are leaky vessels. So just to remind ourselves to get filled with the Spirit. And when we do that It's Christ in us and through us.
- [07:10]
John Fuller
You know, Greg, when you were a boy, this was emerging in reading the book. I mean, you had a sense of the Lord God was shaping your life, even as a boy, through difficulty, which I appreciate. That was kind of my path as well. But some listening, you know, we have temperaments that are part of who we are and how we're made. And, you know, some people who are extroverted, outgoing find evangelism so much easier than others. And of course, you have prophets and teachers. And the Word talks about those skills, those disciplines that God gives each of us. Do you encounter that with somebody that's more introverted, perhaps, that struggle with. Okay, I don't like engaging a lot of people. I like three fins, really deep. I don't like talking to a wide range of people. Are they failing in their walk?
- [08:03]
Greg Steer
No, no. I think everybody shares Christ differently. I'm married to someone who is not an extrovert like me. And she's a public school teacher for 30 years. And she would shine the light of Christ in the public school and drop gospel breadcrumbs as she could. And her fellow teachers knew she was a believer in Christ. And when kids would bring up, hey, where do you stand? When she would see the conversation, insult the conversation, she would share. The way I describe it, Jim, is this is. It's like a teeter totter. All of us are one side of the teeter totter. One side is relational. The other side is relentless. You know, I'm a relentless side of the teeter totter. Somebody says it's hot in here, I say it's hot in hell, too. Let me tell you about Jesus. My wife is on the relational side of the teeter totter. Right. Okay. And she builds relationships over the course of time. But whatever side of the teeter totter you're on is fine as long as you ask the Holy Spirit to sit on the other side. And so God has, through His Holy Spirit and through my wife's influence, helped me become more relational. And the Lord has helped my wife through His Holy Spirit and through me to help her become more relentless.
- [09:10]
John Fuller
Yeah, that's great. That's kind of becoming one, right?
- [09:13]
Greg Steer
It's becoming one.
- [09:14]
John Fuller
That's what marriage does for you. In your book Radical Like Jesus, you identified 21 challenges for believers to live radically for Christ. I think in one of those umbrella statements, you talk about the B word and you identified, I think, things three be's that you can learn from Jesus. Example.
- [09:35]
Greg Steer
Yeah. In every chapter, it's an interesting exercise because every chapter's got a challenge. I wrote it this way, just so you know. I think so many times we read and we don't do.
- [09:47]
John Fuller
Oh, of course. Yeah. That's the church's problem.
- [09:49]
Greg Steer
That's the church's problem. It's like pouring milk into a sponge and not squeezing it out. It spoils. And so, you know, the goal of the B chapter is based on when Jesus was in the temple and he was 12 years old, he ditched his mom and dad. They were, you know, frustrated because they had no idea where he was. He was in the temple. He said, did you not know? I must be in my father's house? And it was there he was asking questions of the leading teachers of the day and processing theology and learning really understanding. Jesus didn't come out of the womb quoting the Torah. He had to memorize scripture. He had to process through all this stuff. And you can see that processing happen. That's when he was with his father. He was intentional. Right. And, you know, I think one of the things that we need to be in our time with God is we.
- [10:35]
John Fuller
Need to be intentional, Be intentional, be.
- [10:37]
Greg Steer
Intentional, and that we're spending time consistently with the father just like Jesus did. Right. I think we need to be curious. We need to be, you know, asking questions when we're in our time with the Word. One of the things just to kind of share a story. When I was a kid, I was raised in this crazy home. I got away underneath the kitchen sink when I was 5 years old with my Bible and a flashlight. And it was underneath that kitchen sink to get away from the noise and the violence, that I would just be with the father and I would ask questions and I would study. It was my only solace of quiet.
- [11:11]
John Fuller
Why did you have that thought to read the Bible? I mean, as a boy, what was in you that said, this is what will help me?
- [11:20]
Greg Steer
So my mom and my uncles. My uncles were bodybuilders and street fighters. My mom was a partier. My grandparents were Baptists.
- [11:28]
John Fuller
So did you guys see them much?
- [11:30]
Greg Steer
Yes.
- [11:30]
John Fuller
Okay, that's good.
- [11:32]
Greg Steer
I think they felt guilty in how their kids turned out, so they took my brother and I to church, Bethany Baptist Church. And I got my Bible and I just started reading it. I didn't know I could barely read the King James, but I knew the answers were in there. And so I had my flashlight and I would just study and study and ask my teachers questions, my Sunday school teachers. Matter of fact, I remember when I finally understood the gospel. I went back to my Sunday school teacher, Mrs. Muirhead. I was eight years old and I'm like, hey, all this let Jesus in your heart stuff confuses us kids. We have no idea what that means. I finally heard that Jesus died in my place for my sin, that he was buried, that he rose again, and I'm saved by faith alone in Christ. That's what you need to preach. So at 8 years old, I was frustrated because it was unclear to me. I was processing like Jesus in the temple. I was processing through what do I believe? Tell me, Lord, what this means. And the Lord revealed it through the gospel of Christ and everything changed.
- [12:26]
John Fuller
Yeah. The next one is embrace. To embrace God given identity. This is critical today. You know, you look at teenagers, particularly schools, that are struggling with reinforcing their God given identity. I don't think the culture really understands who we are as human beings created in his image and the identity that that brings us, particularly for the fatherless. You've mentioned that before, but speak to both camps, those kids that don't have a dad in the home who are struggling with their identity, especially boys. And then for the general audience about our identity in Christ, you know this.
- [13:08]
Greg Steer
With your background, and I know this is my background, not ever meeting my biological father, that there is something about a dad that says, I'm proud of you. Way to go. That, you know, I've never experienced. But Jesus, if you look in Matthew 3 and Luke 3, the father at his baptism said, this is my son whom I love. With him, I'm well pleased. And that was before he did any of his earthly ministry and that same love. And here's the beautiful thing is through Christ, and in Christ we have a heavenly father that says, these are my sons and daughters whom I love. In them, I am well pleased through Christ, knowing that, understanding that, you know, I never knew my dad. When my mom was dying, she said, do you remember what you used to say when kids would make fun of you for not having a dad? I said, I don't remember. She said, you used to say, God's my dad. And I said, I don't remember saying that, Ma. But I remember feeling that.
- [14:12]
John Fuller
Yeah.
- [14:13]
Greg Steer
And no one, you know, kids are struggling to self identify. How do you self identify? The language of the day. And I'm like, listen, we self identify as children of the living king. If we put our faith in Christ, you know, children of the living king. And knowing that identity gives you holy, humble swagger, you know, and helps these kids make it through this confusing life. So that identity is so important.
- [14:34]
John Fuller
Yeah.
- [14:35]
Jim Daly
And Greg, I so appreciate what you're saying. I think even today I struggle with my identity in Christ. It feels like the enemy and the world just kind of crushed that out of us. And you had a pretty poignant story about your son at school, and his identity was kind of called out in a negative way by a teacher. Share that with us.
- [14:56]
Greg Steer
Yeah. When he was in elementary school, he did something wrong. It wasn't that big of a deal, but she said, you're a disgrace to your father. And he came into the car with my wife and I when we picked him up and he just began to weep. And we, we heard what she had said and, you know, I mean, we made a meeting with the principal and then teacher right away. And of course, heads rolled. I mean, I was not. I said, I told the lady, I said, listen, I've worked my entire life since, you know, Jared, since we've been parents, to be a kind of a parent that they know we love him no matter what, and no matter what mistakes he makes, he's still, you know, our son and we love him. And so I really think, understanding the fact that through Christ, you know, when we put our faith in Christ and his finished work on the cross, we trust in Him. We're born again into God's family and he'll never leave us or forsake us. He'll discipline us, you know, take us to the woodshed, so to speak, and when we need it. But he loves us so, so much. And I think it's important for our sons and daughters to know that. But I think spiritually, it's important for us to remember that with our Heavenly Father. It was interesting just with Jeremy, he. When he was a senior in high school, he went through a time of secret rebellion, went to a Christian school. He woke me up at 1 o'clock in the morning. My wife was downstairs, she had fallen asleep grading papers by the fireplace. And he said, dad, I got to confess something. Last school year, for about six months, I was vaping, I was doing marijuana. I was secretly getting drunk. And I can't take it anymore. I feel too guilty. And I just want to confess to you what are my consequences? And I'm like, jeremy, you woke me up at 1 in the morning. I have not processed this. Your first consequence is going to wake your mom up. And we went down and woke her up. And it was a long night, long, dark night of the soul until the sun came up. Lots of tears, lots of crying. He was nervous that I would turn him in to the Christian school because he had violated the honor code the last school year. And that was my tendency. I'm kind of a first time obedience kind of guy. And my wife says, hey, we need to pray and process through this. So we told Jeremy, you need to give us two weeks to pray through the consequences. During that two weeks, we discovered he had borrowed $500 for food over the course of that six months. It wasn't for food, it was for alcohol, it was for marijuana, it was for vaping. And we started making a list of all the things he had done wrong. And we sat down two weeks later. He's like, dad, what are my consequences? I go, first of all, I want you to look at this list of all the things you've done wrong, all the potential consequences. He turned pale. He's like, dad, these are all, these are all true. He did not want us to turn him into the Christian school. You know, that was his big nervousness of getting kicked out, expelled. And he goes, what are my consequences? And I took a big black Sharpie and I wrote the word tetelestai over it. And he goes, what does that mean? I go, that's what Jesus said on the cross, paid in full, it is finished. He goes, dad, I'm not worried about Jesus. I know I'm forgiven by him. I'm worried about you guys. I go, jeremy, you're not getting it. Here's your consequence. You came to us, you confessed, here's your consequence. There is no consequence. I'm not going to make you pay back the $500. We're not going to ground you. We're not going to turn you into the Christian school. And then I leaned over the table and said, unlike Jesus, this is a one time deal because I'm going Old Testament if you do this again. And grace so overwhelmed and broke him. Forgiveness, really knowing he's forgiven by Christ and by his parents. And that began an upward trajectory in his life. And he and his wife are serving the Lord today. And I think a lot of that had to do with experiencing the forgiveness of Christ through mom and dad. I'm not saying we should do that every time our children disobey. This is this one time exception that we said, you know what, he confessed. This is an opportunity to show the power of the grace of God and it impacted him.
- [19:14]
John Fuller
Well, you're into one of the other 21, which is to forgive that idea of forgiveness. And you're covering kind of two sides of this. And I'd like To get your response on both the person that is maybe the parent watching or listening right now who's saying, you know, I've not shown that kind of grace. And the difficulty of that. You can go to bed at night and feel like, okay, especially as a Christian parent, you held the line. You did what the word said to do, except for the fact that you may have missed that opportunity to show what grace is. And so for the hard line, rules oriented temperament, again, which is me. Yeah. The ability to slow down and think about how do I express grace when really what I want to deliver is the law.
- [20:05]
Greg Steer
Exactly. And I think my wife was right. Let's take some time and pray through this. And it took. It was three days before that two week deadline was up that God gave us the answer. So really wrestling with the Holy Spirit on how should I best deal with this.
- [20:22]
John Fuller
Yeah. And out of your context, the general application, the person who says, I can't forgive those people for what they did to me.
- [20:29]
Greg Steer
Yeah.
- [20:30]
John Fuller
I mean, it wounded me badly. What's the advice on that? How do they get their heart in a better place to say, hey, Jesus forgives you for everything?
- [20:38]
Greg Steer
Yeah. When I was 12 years old, I found out that I was one night stand. And I found out my biological father abandoned me and my mom before I was even born. I was crushed. Not because of that, because I found out. I realized my brother and I were half blood brothers. And that just for whatever reason, really crushed me. So I hated my biological father. And people would ask me, what are you going to do if you ever meet your biological father? I said, I'm going to kill them. I know where Grandma keeps the.357 Magnum. He abandoned me and my mom, and I hated him. I was at a conference with 5,000 teenagers when I was 15 years old. Our Christian school made us go to it. And the speaker spoke on forgiving your biological fathers. And he talked about no matter what. The whole talk was that no matter what your dad has done to you, it's nothing compared to what you did to Christ on the cross with your sin. And he just painted a picture of Christ and the cross and the power of forgiveness. And that when we put our faith in Christ alone, we are completely forgiven for everything. So if Christ forgave us for everything, we can forgive anyone for anything. And I'll never forget sitting in that auditorium as a Denver Coliseum. And I just yelled out, God, I forgive my dad. And then, dad, I forgive you. And I wept. And all my friends thought I had lost my mind. And I did because I felt that burden falling off my back. And I had to forgive him a thousand times after that. But that first time was the hardest time. And it was the shadow of the cross that gave me the power to be able to forgive.
- [22:29]
John Fuller
And that's on that end of it. What about that person that says, I'm unforgivable, your dad's side of this? How does a person come to that understanding that, well, you are forgivable and Jesus has done this for you?
- [22:45]
Greg Steer
It's actually, I'll put my mom's side of that. My mom was a woman that was covered in shame. She had shame fueled rage. She 5 bodybuilding, street fighting brothers that were all afraid of her because she wielded a bat when she fought. And I watched her destroy one of her husband's cars with a baseball bat when I was five years old. And then he got out to stop her and she destroyed him. I mean, she was a very violent lady. It was a shame fueled rage. And when I was 12, I was equipped to share the gospel. I began to share Christ with my mom. And it took three years. You know what she would always say, Jim? She would say, you don't know the things I've done wrong.
- [23:27]
John Fuller
Right. That's exactly the person I'm talking about.
- [23:30]
Greg Steer
I knew them all because my grandma had told me everything I knew. She almost aborted me. She drove from Denver to Boston to have an illegal abortion when she found out she was pregnant with me because she didn't want to disappoint her strict Baptist parents once again with another bad decision. And while in Boston, staying with my Uncle Tommy and Aunt Carol, they talked her out of it. She came back and she just. When she would look at me, she would burst in tears oftentimes. And I always wondered why until I was 12 and I found out why. Found out about my biological father, but also found out that my mom was filled with shame because of the almost aborting me. And it took three years. And I just shared Christ with her again and again. And finally at the age of 15, I said, Ma, sit down. And I laid out the cross one more time. Jesus died for everyone. She goes, what about my really bad sins? I go, they're all bad. And Jesus said, it is finished. Trust in him. And she was smoking a cigarette I'll never forget. She goes, I'm in. And she took another drag and I said, yeah, so where are you going to go when you die, Ma? She goes, I'm going to heaven. Cigarettes and all. I go Heaven's not smoking, but yes, you are going to heaven. And from that moment on, I'm not saying it was perfect, but she experienced the grace of God. And 20 years ago, she went to be with the Lord. Guilt free, sin free, and shame free. It makes me so, so happy.
- [24:46]
John Fuller
Absolutely. I could hear it in your voice, Greg. This has been great. Let's come back next time. Let's continue the discussion and talk about these 21 characteristics, the 21 challenges to a radical life like Jesus. It's a great concept and what a great depiction of how the power of God not only works in our own heart, but works in those in our family, our friends and those around us, if we're willing.
- [25:13]
Greg Steer
Amen.
- [25:14]
John Fuller
If we're willing. Let's do that. Let's come back next time. I can't imagine you don't want to get a copy of the book. I'm going to Gene and I. I'm going to take it home tonight and start looking it over with Gene and looking at those challenges. So maybe you'll want to do that as well. Get ahold of us here at Focus and what we often do, if you can just make a gift of any amount, we'll send it to you as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. That's a good way to do it and that way you can participate in helping others find the Lord. I think last year we had 190,000 people come to Christ through Focus. So, man, it's a great number, but praise God that the family is a conduit for finding Christ and salvation in Christ. If you're that person and we know that there are people that don't know the Lord listening and watching, get ahold of us, call us. We are here for you. We'll explain in greater detail what it means to become a Christian. We have a great PDF download that's called Coming Home. It'll give you all the information that you need to know about making a commitment to Christ. What does it mean to open your heart to the Lord, as Greg was describing earlier on this program? So just do that. It'll change your life radically. And it's all about shalom and peace over chaos.
- [26:30]
Jim Daly
You can find that peace in Christ, and if we can help you in that process, it'd be a privilege. And Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family. We've got a link over to that little booklet that Jim mentioned, that online article, Coming Home. We also have a link so you can find out more about the book radical like 21 challenges to live a Revolutionary Life. You can donate and request the book when you call 800, the letter A and the word family. That's 800-232-6459 or stop by the Show Notes for all the details.
- [27:06]
John Fuller
Greg, thanks again. Let's come back and talk more about the love of the Lord.
- [27:10]
Jim Daly
Looking forward to it and I hope you're looking forward to joining us next time as well. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. How do you and your spouse connect spiritually? Would you like to be closer? Focus on the Family invites you to listen to the Loving well podcast season eight just released. And your hosts, Dr. Greg and Aaron Smalley, share insights and humor from their own marriage of over 30 years. And they'll offer you practical ideas to strengthen your marriage by focusing on listen, follow and grow together with the LovingWell podcast. You'll find it at Focusonthefamily.com LovingWell.