How Love Styles Can Help You Grow Closer as a Couple (Part 2 of 2)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Episode Title: How Love Styles Can Help You Grow Closer as a Couple (Part 2 of 2)
Release Date: May 14, 2025
Host: Jim Daly
Guests: Mylan and Kay Yerkovich, Mark and Amy Cameron
Duration: Approximately 27 minutes

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Introduction

In the second part of the two-part series on love styles, Jim Daly continues the deep dive into how understanding and addressing different love styles can strengthen marital relationships. Joined by Mylan and Kay Yerkovich, seasoned marriage counselors, and Mark and Amy Cameron, who are actively involved in the Yerkoviches' marriage ministry, the discussion centers around identifying personal love styles, managing conflicts, and moving towards becoming a "secure connector" in marriage.

Understanding Love Styles and Attachment

Jim Daly initiates the conversation by recapping the previous episode's focus on how childhood experiences with parental love—or the lack thereof—shape our emotional attachment styles in adulthood. The discussed attachment styles include:

• Avoider: Tends to withdraw from intimacy.
• Pleaser: Seeks approval and avoids conflict by catering to others.
• Vacillator: Experiences fluctuating emotions and responses.
• Controller: Attempts to manage and direct relationships forcefully.
• Victim: Feels helpless and overly dependent.
• Secure Connector: Represents the ideal attachment style, characterized by healthy, balanced interactions similar to the relationship modeled by Jesus.

Jim Daly emphasizes that except for the secure connector, other styles often carry dysfunctions that stem from learned behaviors in childhood. These dysfunctional patterns lead to "bad dances" where couples unwittingly step on each other's toes, resulting in ongoing conflicts (00:04).

Identifying Personal Love Styles

Kay Yerkovich introduces a practical tool for listeners: a free online quiz available at howwelove.com, designed to help individuals identify their attachment imprint. She encourages listeners not to be discouraged by high scores in multiple areas, viewing them instead as opportunities for growth (03:22).

Managing Comfort and Conflict

The discussion shifts to two critical self-reflection questions about comfort and conflict:

1. Do you have a memory of comfort from your childhood where a parent recognized and addressed your distress?
2. How do you manifest and manage stress in your relationships today?

Amy Cameron elaborates on the importance of having had comforting experiences in childhood, which teach one to seek and provide comfort effectively. She contrasts this with the avoider style, where lack of comfort can lead to detachment and poor stress management in marriage (03:36).

Rupture and Repair in Conflict Resolution

Jim Daly introduces the concepts of rupture and repair in relationships, asking Mark and Amy Cameron to define these terms through their personal experiences.

Mark Cameron explains that rupture refers to inevitable conflicts, while repair involves addressing these conflicts constructively by engaging in active listening and understanding each other's perspectives instead of arguing over perceived facts (05:32).

Kay Yerkovich adds that addressing conflicts openly in front of children teaches them healthy resolution skills. She shares personal anecdotes where both she and Mylan take ownership of their disagreements, model apologies, and seek to "do over" conflicts in a constructive manner (06:51).

Modeling Conflict Resolution for Children

The importance of resolving disagreements in front of children is emphasized as a teaching tool. Amy Cameron recounts triggering behaviors stemming from childhood, where unmet needs led to misunderstandings in her marriage. By modeling apologies and open communication, parents can demonstrate effective conflict resolution, fostering a secure attachment in their children (07:10).

The Comfort Circle and Reparative Experiences

Mylan Yerkovich outlines three critical ways couples can comfort each other:

1. Listening: Engaging deeply and acknowledging each other's emotions (e.g., "I see a tear. Tell me about that tear.") (09:03).
2. Physical Connection: Non-sexual touch to maintain intimacy.
3. Holding Time: Providing comfort through physical presence during distressing times.

Mark Cameron further explains the comfort circle as a reparative experience that mimics childhood bonding. By creating a secure attachment in the present, couples can reshape their interaction patterns, despite previous attachment injuries. This process aligns with the Christian concept of sanctification, where personal growth and healing are facilitated through faith (11:00).

Understanding and Managing Triggers

The conversation delves into recognizing and addressing triggers—present stimuli that evoke past emotional responses.

Mylan Yerkovich defines a trigger as something that brings back an old historical feeling into the present, often leading to reactive behaviors like anxiety or over-pursuing in relationships (13:04).

Amy Cameron adds that understanding the root of these triggers, often linked to childhood experiences, allows individuals to respond thoughtfully rather than react impulsively. This self-awareness is crucial for breaking harmful patterns and fostering empathy (15:26).

Becoming a Secure Connector

The ultimate goal discussed is becoming a secure connector.

Mark Cameron describes a securely connected individual as emotionally intelligent, able to articulate their feelings and needs clearly, and capable of engaging in empathetic conversations even amidst disagreements (20:13).

Amy Cameron emphasizes the role of vulnerability in achieving secure connection. By confronting and sharing deep-seated emotions and losses, couples can experience a richer, more intimate relationship that withstands life's challenges (22:22).

Conclusion and Resources

Jim Daly wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to seek further assistance through the Focus on the Family ministry. Resources such as counseling, the book "How We Discover Your Love, Enhance Your Marriage", and the Hope Restored Marriage Intensive are highlighted as avenues for couples seeking to deepen their connection and resolve ongoing conflicts (25:17).

Key Takeaway: Understanding and addressing individual love styles and attachment triggers are essential for building a secure, empathetic, and intimate marital relationship. By modeling healthy conflict resolution and providing mutual comfort, couples can transform their interactions and foster a resilient partnership grounded in Christian values.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mylan Yerkovich (00:04): "This is an area we had to take to the cross to say, lord, my fearful pleaser side is not working here in this relationship. Her avoidant, dismissive side is not working. It's a bad dance."

• Amy Cameron (15:26): "One of the questions our listeners can ask themselves is, when I'm annoyed, what am I feeling? What do I really want to say?"

• Mark Cameron (20:13): "Somebody who is securely connected is emotionally intelligent. They're in touch with their own emotions to understand what's driving their behavior, and they can make requests."

• Amy Cameron (22:22): "The first 15 years of our marriage, there was no vulnerability. We didn't even know how to be vulnerable."

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Resources Mentioned:

• Website: howwelove.com for the free love styles quiz.
• Book: How We Discover Your Love, Enhance Your Marriage.
• Contact: Focus on the Family Counseling Services at 1-866-875-2915 or 800-FAMILY.
• Program: Hope Restored Marriage Intensive.

Listeners are encouraged to reach out for personalized counseling, access helpful resources, and consider intensive programs to strengthen their marital bonds.

Transcript

[Mylan Yerkovich]

This is an area we had to take to the cross to say, lord, my fearful pleaser side is not working here in this relationship. Her avoidant, dismissive side is not working. It's a bad dance.

[Jim Daly]

It's crushing you, probably.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

It was crushing.

[John Fuller]

That's Mylon Yerkovich observing that our childhoods follow us into adulthood and into all of the relationships that we experience as adults. And he and his wife Kay are back with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly along with Mark and Amy Cameron. Thank you for joining us. I'm John Fuller.

[Jim Daly]

John, we had a fascinating conversation last time with our esteemed panel of guests, and we're talking about how our earliest childhood experiences with parental love or the lack of parental love and all the emotions that go with that, how that can imprint on us. Emotional attachment issues. And last time we talked about the avoider. I think people will probably self identify with that. The pleaser. I tend to lean in that direction. Vacillator, controller, victim. And what we didn't mention last time was the secure connector, which is the goal. We'll talk more about that toward the end of the program. And that would, I think our guests would say would be more like Jesus himself is the secure connector because he could be healthy in all these areas. And as we discussed last time, these styles, except for that last one, have dysfunction attached to them. And these are the things we learn in our childhood, typically because of the environment we're in with our parents, with our family, et cetera, those ramifications come right into adulthood. We talked about it being the dance and how we end up stepping on each other's toes. And couples just went, yes, that's what it feels like. She steps on my toes. Or vice versa. We're going to continue the discussion today so we can give you the tools you need to live a life that honors the Lord and honors your spouse.

[John Fuller]

Yeah, there's a lot of help here, and I do hope you're able to stay with us for the entire conversation. By the way, if you missed last time, check it out on online through the app. We've got a treasure trove of resources to help your marriage. That was really an outstanding conversation last time. Mylan and Kay Yerkovich are marriage counselors, and they've been speaking and writing about love styles for decades. They're joined by Mark and Amy Cameron, who've been working with the Yerkoviches for a number of years now and are kind of taking over the marriage ministry. And the basis for our conversation is a superb book that is so helpful. Deana and I have copies of this at home. It's marked up, so if you go to it, I confess. We pass it on to friends and to children at times. The book is called How We Discover your Love, Enhance youe Marriage. And you can get a copy of that from us here at the ministry. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family. 800-232-6459 or the link is in the show notes.

[Jim Daly]

Mylon. Kay, welcome back.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

Thank you.

[Jim Daly]

Mark, Amy, here, welcome back.

[Kay Yerkovich]

Thank you.

[Jim Daly]

This is fun. This is a full table. This is Thanksgiving. Like we said last time, let's carry. So let's kick it off here. People listened last time. New people are going to be listening now. How do you sort out who am I? You do have a quiz, right? Where is that located?

[Kay Yerkovich]

Well, the website howwelove.com, and you scroll down and it's a free quiz and it will give you an attachment imprint. And some people score high in a few different areas. But don't be discouraged on that because it gives you a lot more opportunity to grow.

[Jim Daly]

Kay, let me come your direction. You've identified two important questions that people can ask themselves about comfort and conflict. Wants comfort. Let me see your hands.

[Kay Yerkovich]

Yay.

[Jim Daly]

What are those two questions and why are they so significant?

[Amy Cameron]

Well, we ask do you have a memory of comfort from your childhood where a parent really could tell you were distressed? They were aware and tuned in. And however you manifested stress as a kid and they asked you about what was going on inside so you could learn to articulate your inner self and helped you through that situation, that stressful time, to where you felt relief at the end. And if you, you know, as babies we do a lot of relieving of distress, but we never really outgrow that need. And we all have stressful lives, so we need comfort in this world. But since I didn't get comfort growing up as the avoider, I didn't think I needed comfort. And so comfort is really essential. As Mylan said last time, it's very important so that you lear to take your stress to relationships. One of the hallmarks of a secure home is that we know how to manage stress well. And for the attachment styles that we discussed, each of us struggle to manage stress. I detached. Mylan pursued fascinators protest. And in those ways of handling stress, we don't seek comfort. And comfort is a very, maybe many times a very undeveloped skill. In marriages, we react rather than understanding comfort.

[Jim Daly]

Mark, you and Amy, you talk about the conflict you had, but you talk about it in the terms of rupture and repair. So let me ask the two of you to kind of define that. Rupture and repair, what did that look like in your own relationship?

[Mark Cameron]

So every relationship eventually has rupture, but the key to resolving in rupture is learning how to repair. Can we go back and can we have a conversation? Can we invite another person to sit down with us? And instead of arguing back and forth, I like to say that people bat the perceived facts ball back and forth. I often see this in therapy. Couples just argue about the facts and I just say, let's just split the time in two. And one of you is going to be the speaker and the other one's going to be the listener. And you're going to really try and enter into the other ones perspective to understand what is happening inside of them.

[Jim Daly]

So how did. I'm looking for an example from you and Amy. I mean, you're part of this now, so it's on the table.

[Kay Yerkovich]

Yeah. So with conflict, you know, a lot of the times, you know, there's a desire to be understood, but desire to be understood, when you're activated and angry, it turns into a back forth. Is anybody really listening? So instead of reactivity, we need to learn how to respond. So the comfort circle, which is in the book and on the website, it gives you a framework listener, speaker. And that was very healing for our imprint because we have that deep desire to be understood. And so it gives you an opportunity to be heard out and to figure out what's under this reactive emotion so you can really kind of figure out what's beneath it.

[Mark Cameron]

And that's what we had to learn to do. We had to learn how to take turns.

[John Fuller]

Was there just this up and down, back and forth? Never really found the middle ground before there was.

[Mark Cameron]

Yes. But whatever you practice, you get good at. So as we practice doing that, that became more of our new default behavior.

[Jim Daly]

Amy, let me ask you this, because I think in the prep here you alluded to it. This idea about having an argument in front of your kids, the idea that we should never do that, the idea that that's just wrong at the core. Let's take it into a private area. I don't know what the disagreement characteristics are. I'm sure yelling at each other would not be healthy. But you kind of disagree with AVO the argument in front of the kids, do you?

[Kay Yerkovich]

Well, I think kids can see what's going on in the home. I mean, if you're not talking to each other, you're not making eye contact. If there's not like a warm and in the vacillator home, like often kids can understand like something's going on, whether it's verbally or non verbally, they're kind of attuned to that. But, you know, I think it's been really healing for our kids to be like, hey, you know what, Can I have a do over? Like, I shouldn't have said that. Like, can I walk that back, like right now in front of them? It kind of teaches them, you know, how to resolve. So I think you should model how to resolve conflict in front of your kids.

[Jim Daly]

And I think it's age appropriate. Right. You don't want to do something with a five year old that you would do with a 15 year old, obviously, and the kids. You need age appropriate looks at what it looks like to resolve conflict in a marriage.

[Mark Cameron]

Well, if you don't demonstrate that, what happens is a child grows up and goes into adulthood with no skills for how to resolve conflict because in their home they didn't see it.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, no, that's so true.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

I mean, what Amy, you just said a little while ago, Kay and I do it all the time. We will say, can I have a do over? You know, we got off to a bad start right there. And sometimes we'll sing a song to each other.

[John Fuller]

Oh, really?

[Kay Yerkovich]

Yeah.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

You were right and I was wrong.

[Jim Daly]

Doo dah doh. Look at they kick in together.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

It's pretty good until we've done it. And so we will actually say, I got off to a bad start right there. I really, I apologize. Let me start over again.

[Amy Cameron]

And that's even something you can do with your kids?

[Mylan Yerkovich]

Absolutely.

[Jim Daly]

Oh, yeah, they would love that.

[Amy Cameron]

Hey, you know what? That didn't really work. Let's have a do over there.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. I think one of the biggest smiles I ever saw on Trent's face was when I apologized for something. He was probably five or six. He had the biggest smile. I said, what are you smiling about? He goes, I didn't know parents had to apologize. What a great line.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

What a great model.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, I needed to. It was just I overreacted, basically. Mylan, let me ask you. In the book How We Love you identify three critical ways that couples can comfort each other. I remember talking to you about this when Gene and I were with you two. What are those three?

[Mylan Yerkovich]

The three are number one. Listening. If I can look you in the eye. Because you talked about this a little while ago, you know Gene, engaging you and wanting to look into your eyes. If I can look into Kay's eyes and if I can see and I can acknowledge what I see, I see a tear. Tell me about that tear. That's comforting and it's connection, it's very much connecting. Then the other thing is when we see that tear, I'll say, can I hold your hand or can I just touch you for a moment?

[Jim Daly]

Physical connection.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

Physical connection and touch that is non sexual. It's very important for guys to learn how to have non sexual intimacy with their spouse. Very important. And then thirdly, we will do a holding time where I will hold Kay as a comfort if there's been something very distressing. And we've even done that with respect to comforting one another for our childhood issues as well. Nobody was with me back then, but Kay can go there back with me and I can put my head in her lap and I can receive comfort for that distressing moment in my life. So these are three key ways.

[Jim Daly]

The comfort circle, you've mentioned it. Who wants to take a stab at describing it? I mean, you guys are all the experts here. So Mark.

[Mark Cameron]

Well, the comfort circle is providing a reparative experience for the other person. As Kay was mentioning that what she and Myelin do together when they look into each other's eyes, when they listen to each other, when they hold hands for one another, that's mimicking what the cycle of bonding should be like when we are growing up with a parent. And so if you didn't get that growing up, when you provide that for your spouse, it gives that reparative experience. Now here's the good news. We're sinners. Christ died. He came down and he provided us a way back to be sanctified. The bad news here is you may have an injured attachment style, but the good news is research shows that you can form a secure attachment style by earning it by doing something called creating a coherent narrative. Coherent means that something makes sense. Narrative is story. If you can make sense of your story, your childhood story, and then do that reparative experience in the present, you reform, you reshape. And that's part, I believe, the process of sanctification.

[John Fuller]

And I think it's important for our listeners to understand we're not talking about this, to blame our past on our parents. I think it seems like there's this trend to kind of roll my eyes and say it's all my parents fault, but there's kind of what was and who I am now. So address that because I Think it's important for people to hear.

[Mark Cameron]

Well, we have to acknowledge reality of a situation. The good news of Jesus dying for us and being a savior is of no consequence if you don't believe that, you're a sinner. So the good news of being able to reform and reshape in your attachment style, if you don't recognize these areas where we have deficits and how they have formed, then you can't go ahead and intentionally make that journey toward the process of reshaping. And so this is not about blaming parents, as you're mentioning here. It's about learning how to explain what happened to us, how we became a certain way so that we can move forward.

[Jim Daly]

Mylan, let me turn to you. We talked about triggers. Describe again, for the benefit of the listeners and the viewers, those triggers that were working with you and Kay. I mean, as a pleaser. What was really making it hard for you?

[Mylan Yerkovich]

Okay, so the definition of a trigger is something in the present brings back an old historical feeling.

[Jim Daly]

But you don't know that.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

No, you don't know that. All you know is that right now when you're triggered, that historical feeling comes slamming in to the present. It's like you said earlier, and it violently slams in. And so we get that expression you had. And where did all that energy come from? It was uninvited. Okay? I didn't ask that to come in. It just jammed its way into the present. Now, what triggered me with Kay was her quietness. Because I said yesterday on the program that silence was a precursor to a storm. Number two, she's also in that introvertedness. She doesn't need to be in contact with people as much as extroverts do. So that silence and also the withdrawal made me nervous because when there was silence and withdrawal in my home growing up, it was absolutely anxiety producing. So I would then over pursue trying to make sure everything was okay. And so until she said she was okay, or until I could figure out things were okay, I was very undone. I'd be very anxious.

[Jim Daly]

Now, it's interesting, I'm just projecting, but I would think that those consistent questions, Kay, were irritating to you. Like, why does he keep coming? So now he's out of his trigger, he's triggering you.

[Amy Cameron]

Yes, that's exactly right. My feeling was, he's so nice, it bugs me. Why is that bugging me? And it took me really years to answer that, because he wasn't asking for me, he was asking to alleviate his own anxiety. The right answer was, I'm great. Because I'm married to you and you're amazing and you're the best husband anyone could ever have and woo hoo.

[Jim Daly]

And that would have been really good.

[Amy Cameron]

That would have been really good.

[John Fuller]

That doesn't come naturally to you?

[Amy Cameron]

No, no, it didn't come naturally. But on top of that, from the time I was very young, my mom and I didn't really bond when I was an infant, and she thought there was something wrong with me. And so the feeling I was getting from him was something was wrong with me, which made me want to push away and he just felt too needy. So those triggers, you don't know they're happening until you explore your childhood and go, oh, that's the same feeling. So one of the questions our listeners can ask themselves is, when I'm annoyed, what am I feeling? What do I really want to say? And who would I say that to in my history? Or who did I have those exact same feelings with in my history?

[Jim Daly]

Yeah.

[Amy Cameron]

And then you realize, okay, the reaction could be quiet for me. It wasn't a loud like, ugh. It was like, I'm going to go in the other room. So it could be a detaching response, it could be a protest, it could be trying harder to please. But these are all responses to triggers.

[Jim Daly]

But that is super important. When that happens, try to figure out why it's happening. I mean, that's a common sense thing rather than just living the emotion. And then an hour later, it happens again.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

It's not just the word why, Jim, it's when. When have I felt these feelings before? I felt them when my brother did this. I went into my room and I slammed the door. Well, I do the same thing when I'm married. You know, my husband yells, I go in my room and slam the door. When have you done this behavior before?

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, interesting.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

We marry each other's histories our whole history.

[Amy Cameron]

Yep.

[Jim Daly]

Now, Mark and Amy, you're nice and quiet over here, but we're gonna pull you into this. We want to know your triggers too, but speak to triggers in that vacillator relationship. What are those things that Mark would do to you, Amy, that would, like, ouch, and you would react out of that.

[Kay Yerkovich]

Gosh, so many things, I guess. But thankfully there's so much relief, though, because you dig all this unconscious stuff up and you take a good look at it and you're like, you know what? This is from my childhood wounds. And so now you look at your conflict as like, this is a wound from Mark's childhood when he was little from a wound when I was little. So you really get to look at each other, where that reactivity was originally came from.

[Jim Daly]

But you have to develop that empathy because it has to move from irritating to compassionate. That's a big jump.

[Kay Yerkovich]

Well, and that's what the work does because attachment core pattern therapy allows you to see that reactivity. But yes, vacillators have reactivity and have anger. You take the quiz if you score high in please or vacillator, the tiebreaker is, do you get angry? And so the answer is yes for vacillator.

[Jim Daly]

So we'd love an example of how you and Mark get angry at each other.

[Kay Yerkovich]

Okay. So one thing that is practical is arrivals and departures. So, like, you know, he's going to come home. I have all this exciting stuff to tell him. And I have dinner on the table. I'm hungry, you know, like, it's warm, it's at the temperature. I want to eat it. Like, come in. Like, let's eat it right now. Like, right now. Now is a thing that vacillators do. And then, you know, he has to, like, put his jacket down and like his day and everything. And so here comes the swing. High hopes. He's just not listening to me. All deep despair. So that that swing is what happens. But taking ownership myself of, you know what, I need to give him time to come through the door. If I want to be heard out, I need to find the right opportunity. You know, he listens to people all day as a therapist, so I need to give him the right opportunity for me to be heard, for him to actually listen. So just understanding, you know, how to get your needs met without being reactive.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah.

[John Fuller]

Yeah.

[Mark Cameron]

Well, disappointment is one of the triggers for the vacillator. They also get triggered when they feel misunderstood, understood when they feel unseen or unheard by a person, when they are made to wait, when they perceive abandonments or rejection, but they don't like to ask for the connection, they give complaints and criticisms. And so that's often how it played out between Amy and I. Something would happen, Someone would get disappointed. The other person would be made to wait and their criticism would come. And really what the criticism was, was, hey, I'm hurting. But the other person perceived that as an attack. And then we both went at it with each other.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. And that's again, the goal here is healthy. So all these awarenesses we're talking about, this is awesome. I love this. That last one that we have mentioned, but really not defined the secure connector. Let's get into that in the last few minutes that we have here. Maybe again, Mark and Amy, you guys can help us define what it is, those characteristics of a secure connector.

[Mark Cameron]

Yeah. Somebody who is securely connected is emotionally intelligent. They're in touch with their own emotions to understand what's driving their behavior, and they can make requests. So we do two things with our emotions. We talk them out productively or we act them out. Or I like to say we verbalize or we dramatize. If you dramatize and you act it out, someone's got to guess what's going on inside of you. But if you have language for emotions and feelings, you can clearly say to somebody, this is what I'm feeling here. And if you learn to link those two things, feelings and needs, you can make requests. You're more likely to get what you want and more likely to draw empathy in from the other person. So somebody who is securely attached can do that. They can learn to wait. They can have a conversation where they're in the listener role, and they can listen for understanding even when they don't agree.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, that is good. Anybody want to add to that?

[Mylan Yerkovich]

Well, especially for vacillators, when they go silent or pout or sulk or pull away, they want a mind reader to be able to know what's wrong with.

[Jim Daly]

Them because that communicates what, you know me.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

That means you know me. Yeah, but I don't. I can't possibly mind read. I know Kay as well as anybody, but I still have to ask her every day, how are you?

[Jim Daly]

Well, this is the wife who's saying he should know that, but he doesn't.

[Mylan Yerkovich]

Right. Or the husband that says, I told you one time. I told you, already told you this. Why can't you just know what I need right now? And that's not fair because we are growing creatures and life changes from week to week. I can't possibly know that.

[Amy Cameron]

So I'll add to the secure conductor based right off of that. The secure conductor can describe to their family what they're going through. You might come home and say, I had one of the most difficult days. I'm really not in a great place. It's nothing. You did give me a while to calm down. That communicates to the family so that they know right away. Great way to come back to your family is when you reunite at the end of the day is give me three feelings about your day. It gives you so much information.

[Jim Daly]

You know, in this space right at the end here, I'm thinking of the marriage. You Know a lot of Christian marriages that. That we're doing okay. We pray together, we go to church together. We have good discussions. We don't allow phones at the dinner table, Whatever is making that happen. But it's not the deep end of the pool. It's like we're just playing in the shallow end of life, and we're happy there because we could put our feet on the ground, and then you move deeper into the pool. It creates risk. It creates openness. It's. It's feeling very much known. And I think that is where God wants us to go so that we have a full experience in this life of intimacy. Intimacy with him, intimacy with our spouse, our family, et cetera. What do you say to that couple? That, yeah, we're doing good enough?

[Amy Cameron]

I think it's about vulnerability. The first 15 years of our marriage, there was no vulnerability. We didn't even know how to be vulnerable. And when we took this journey and really owned our own attachment wounds and began to change, we had our first very vulnerable conversations, even discussing childhood pain as vulnerable. Learning to comfort each other was enormous. And what we're experiencing as we age, there's more and more loss. And if you're in the shallow end, you don't know what to do with loss. Loss needs comfort, and the older you get, the more loss there is. And so loss and being able to cry with someone or being able to really express grief is vulnerable. So I think going into the deep end gives you a richness that we just didn't know existed until we learned to live there.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. That is so good. And I think, frankly, I'm guilty of that. I can live in the light end. I like to lighten up the load, because life can be heavy, and that's.

[Amy Cameron]

Well. And I'm not talking about not having joy, you know, but it's like most people are able to experience joy, but grief or pain is where they get stuck. They don't know what to do with it.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. Well, this is a start, and I hope this has been helpful to you. You know, this is focus, goal. We want to kind of gently take you to the deep end of the pool and make sure your marriages are as healthy in Christ as they can be, that your parenting is as healthy as it can be. So. So if you're going, wow, you're describing some things here that fit my family or me, get ahold of us. We have counselors who can talk with you over the phone that can help you order the book directly from Focus on the family and when you do, just make a gift of any amount, whatever you can afford. If you can't afford it, we'll get it to you. Just call us. And if you can do a monthly gift, that's great. We can do ministry together. If it's a one time gift, good. And I'll trust others will cover it. For those that can't afford it, just get in touch with us and we are here to help you.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. Our number is 800, the letter A in the Word family. And of course we'll have the links to the book, opportunities to donate and to connect with our caring Christian counselors if we can be of any help to you. Those are all in the show notes.

[Jim Daly]

You know, we also have hope restored. I didn't think to mention that. That's a four day intensive where couples that are struggling deeply can come. We have four locations. A fifth location in Cave Creek is coming up and so we can see about 3,400 couples a year in those locations. So if you're in that spot, we have an 80% post 2 year save rate on marriages. So if you're feeling like this may be the last thing we can try, do it, try it. Let's go in together and you can call us and talk to us about that as well.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. Once again, we're so grateful to the donors and the Lord for his goodness to this ministry that we can offer this kind of help to you. Again, Our number is 800, the letter A and the word family. I'll also mention that if you're going to be in Colorado anytime soon, we'd love to have you visit our ministry headquarters here in Colorado Springs. We have a lot for you and your family and we'd love to say hi coming up tomorrow. Why praying for your daughters is so.

[Kay Yerkovich]

Important, but time and time again in our lives when our girls have learned to be, be strong in the Lord and have real strength that lasts and looks like the strength of Jesus. It's been the hard times that have prepared them better for the world that we're living in that is obviously coming against them on every level.

[John Fuller]

Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

[Kay Yerkovich]

Your marriage can be redeemed. Even if the fights seem constant, even if there's been an affair, even if you haven't felt close in years. No matter how deep the wounds are, you can take a step toward healing them with a Hope Restored Marriage Intensive. Our biblically based counseling will help you find the root of your problems and face challenges together. We'll talk with you, pray with you and help you find out which program will work best. Call us at 1-866-875-2915.