← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
How the Christian Worldview Inspires Uncommon Hope for Believers (Part 2 of 2)
00:27:25
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- [00:09]
John Stonestreet
We're a civilization that needs to be put back together. And the reconciliation that is possible through what Christ accomplished on the cross and in his resurrection is bigger than the world itself. The world can be put back together and God entrusts us with that message.
- [00:26]
Jim Daly
Well, that's John Stonestreet, president of the Colson center for Christian Worldview. And he's our guest again today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. John's going to be sharing ways that we can, each of us and then collectively as a church, live out the Christian faith. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
- [00:45]
John Fuller
You know John. Last time we discussed with John this idea of applying the Christian worldview to our lives. That's what's so critical. We can read the word of God and then not apply it. No benefit derives from that. Atheists read the word of God. Some of the most informed atheists I've ever met can quote scripture right? And it even says Satan knows that. Satan knows who the son of God is. But we as Christians have got to embrace our faith and live our faith. And I think that's one of the moments, that's the moment we're in right now when we see all of culture kind of crumbling. What is it God wants us to do in this moment? And if you missed last time, download the app or go to the website and take a listen because I think it was really good to hear from John and the ideas that we are portraying together in a joint project with the Colson center in a new documentary that is called Truth Rising. It releases globally September 5th. It has a great follow up curriculum that John has led and he and Os Guinness have kind of tag teamed in this effort to bring this alive and focus on the family. We're kind of the underlying foundation. We help pay for it. But we're thrilled with this project and we think it's a great follow on to the Truth Project.
- [02:01]
Jim Daly
Yeah, that was some 20 years ago with Dr. Del Tackett and this is made for such a time as this. This is a tremendous film. We're so excited for you to see it. It's gonna be available online and you can sign up for access. The link is in the show notes.
- [02:16]
John Fuller
John, welcome back to Focus on the Family.
- [02:18]
John Stonestreet
Oh, thanks so much. We had a great conversation yesterday and we still didn't cover it all.
- [02:24]
John Fuller
No, this'll be a discussion for eons pro.
- [02:27]
John Stonestreet
Right.
- [02:27]
John Fuller
Literally. You covered so much last time. It's intriguing. I love this stuff. I think all Christians should love thinking about the culture we're in the fact that we're placed here for this moment. And one of the scriptures that really helps us put this into perspective is John 15:19, which says from Christ, saying, you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world. Now some John might say, well, if that's the case, just put the switch on and let's go. And if the Lord's gonna wrap this up, he's gonna wrap it up. Is that what he expects of us as the church? Or do we continue to try to bring the kingdom of God to this earth through expressing and telling people about who Jesus is and what this is all about?
- [03:12]
John Stonestreet
Yeah. You know, there is a way that the Bible talks about the world as a system, as a way of thinking, really as a worldview that tries to explain reality without God or tries to explain reality with the false God. And we are to be called out of that in the same way that the Israelites were called out of a pagan society and situation in Egypt. And it's interesting, God pulls them out and the first thing that he gives them, along with the law, is the book of Genesis, the description of reality that begins in the beginning. And the first thing that God gives them in this beginning was a new theology. In Egypt, they had learned that there was all kinds of gods doing all kinds of things. But now God wanted them to know, no, there is one God. And then he gave them a new cosmology because in a polytheistic way of thinking about reality, that gods have control over different parts. And you have to appease all these gods to have fertility over here, or to have success in war over here and to have success in business over here or whatever. No, no, no. There's an ordered creation that came from the literal language of God himself. And then God gave them a new anthropology because while they were in Egypt, the Jews were taught that they were slaves and that they were worthless and that they weren't the same. And then God tells them, no, you were made in my image. Think about that brand new framing that doesn't take them out of reality. It takes them out of the worldly way of thinking that they got from the Egyptians. And we know from the beginning that God created humans to bear his image, to be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. But think about what really should be called, I think, the greatest prayer in the Bible. Jesus in Gethsemane. It's in John chapter 17. And Jesus prays something there that seems to contradict the verse you read in John 15. He says, Father, do not take them out of the world, but protect them from the evil one. Isn't that interesting? I think it's because the story that the Bible tells of reality that begins with creation and goes to new creation, that begins with the heaven and earth and goes to the new heavens and new earth, is the story of God using the people that he redeems and reconciles, as Paul says in 2 Corinthians, chapter 5, to be agents of reconciliation, to be agents of renewal, to be forces to be reckoned with and bringing the truth of God to bear in the world that God made and is restoring and will be restored, you know, one day. I think that's how we need to think about this idea of the world. We have been called to it. We. We have a place to play and a role to play in it. But we can't do that if we're not oriented fundamentally to what is true.
- [06:03]
John Fuller
You know, John, I want to jump back for a moment. When you talk about Genesis, what's really interesting to me, when we're looking at this cultural conflict, it's like nothing new under the sun. And it is almost like we are on full display right now, human beings, that we know the better way. We ate from the tree of knowledge, and we think there are multiple identities for us, multiple genders. This is how we believe, as if we are God, the Creator, not the created. Doesn't it have a waft of that? I mean, it smells like. Oh, my goodness. We haven't moved out of that moment. We're right back in the garden telling God. Yeah, it's about us.
- [06:40]
John Stonestreet
Oh, listen, it's more than word. You use a waft. I don't know what that is, but it's more than that. Wafting through the air. Oh, got it. Yeah. This is the same recipe. It's the exact same recipe. And we need to understand that this is not just a recipe. Then that will play out in individual lives, although it has and it will. We know the crisis of meaning. We know the crisis of suicidality. We know the crisis of family breakdown. We know the crisis that we see of international conflict and so on. And that tells us that it's not just about the individual. This bad recipe will taste bad and smell bad as it infests entire families and cultures and civilizations. That's what I think Osginis means in the project when he talks about this being a civilizational moment, that these bad ideas of trying to build a world without God have borne fruit. And it's not good fruit.
- [07:34]
John Fuller
Let me Illustrate one and it's another of the powerful stories in the documentary. It's Chloe Cole who we actually had on the broadcast some months ago, maybe a year ago now, young woman at that time she was 19 and she is a detransitioner. So at 12, 13, 14, she had made the decision that she wanted to no longer be female but to transition to being male. And in there it shows you the irony of this whole thing. Now Europe went headlong in that direction. They had a whole hospital in Britain called Tavistock that was given to these therapies for minors, hormone therapy, surgical therapy, what we've now come to call mutilation of the body. And in that process she realized she had made a mistake and she did not want to do this. But to the political side of this, John, Europe to its credit looked at the data and said, wait a minute, we are doing more harm than good. There aren't more suicides from these people before they do the transition. In fact, more suicide occurs after the transition. But they were sober minded enough to now pull in that mutilation of these children. Here's the other data point when you look at it. Gender confusion, gender dysphoria. 70 to 90% of children experiencing gender dysphoria will self correct to their birth gender by age 19. Leave them alone. Europe has figured this out. We have not because it's become a political game in the United States. And here's the problem with it, to your point about God versus man's wisdom, we are driving these children into a cul de sac of misery that they will not be able to get out of. And even Chloe describes that she will have life long surgeries now to correct the error of her 13 year old way. That's on us as a culture and.
- [09:38]
John Stonestreet
It'S on Christians if they don't speak out against it. It's so interesting to see specifically that issue kind of having played out in front of our eyes over the last several years. And unfortunately, tragically, the most prominent voices pushing back on those lies weren't always Christian voices. There were a lot of Christian voices that were silent. And when we think about God putting us in this time and in this place, God has a job for us to do. When we look at what Paul says in 2nd Corinthians 5, that those who have been reconciled are then given the ministry of reconciliation, Chloe Cole's a story that represents tens of thousands of stories of young girls who were taught to hate themselves, who have been broken away from their true God given identity and they need the truth. It is not unloving when someone needs the truth to tell the truth. And what I love about Chloe's story is not only the fact that she had the courage in the middle of this transitional journey to say, I'm not going to find what I'm looking for with these bad ideas and with these wrong therapies and with this terrible ideology. But God in his grace, reached down to Chloe, and she actually found her true identity and who God made her to be. And in Christ. Isn't that the truth that God has entrusted the church with? We cannot be silent at a moment like this. And unfortunately, sometimes we are. And I think it's because maybe we're not confident ourselves in the truth. We certainly don't want to come across as being jerks or bigots or being unloving. But this gets to one of the core aspects of the Christian worldview. The Christian faith is not only personal, it's public. It's public truths about life in the world. There is a God. Humans are made in his image. Image bearers are made, male and female. Men and women were made for each other and the bonds of marriage. And this is what is the best situation for children. All of this is in the book. It is a loving thing for us to be truth tellers in a culture of lies.
- [11:51]
John Fuller
You asked that question, which is, what are we saved for? What's that answer?
- [11:57]
John Stonestreet
Well, I think it's exactly what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5. The gospel tells us what we're saved from. We're saved from sin, and praise God, he saves us from sin. It tells us what we're saved to, that we're saved to eternal life and eternal relationship with God through Christ. And if that's all there was to the Gospel, what we're saved from and what we're saved to, it's still really, really good news. And we need to tell that good news. But we're also given in Holy Scripture what we're saved for, you know? And as a kid growing up in the church, I sometimes wondered if the whole point of this whole thing is just to go to heaven, why doesn't God just take us to heaven the moment we're saved? You know? And then I read in Second Corinthians, chapter 5, that those who have been reconciled through Christ have been entrusted with the ministry of reconciliation. Now, that word, reconciliation, is all about relationships, the relationships that God put us in and the relationships that have been broken by the fall. Sometimes, like in Chloe's story, the relationship with ourselves can be broken. We don't even know who we are. Those who have been put back together have a wonderful message to tell others. Not just individuals, but a world that needs to be put back together. I think Oz's main point here is that we're a civilization that's broken. We're a civilization that needs to be put back together. And the reconciliation that is possible through what Christ accomplished on the cross and in his resurrection is bigger than the world itself. The world can be put back together, and God entrusts us with that message.
- [13:30]
John Fuller
John, I want to put a story to what we're saved for. That is Hans and Sophie's story. It's so beautiful. Tell us about their story.
- [13:40]
John Stonestreet
Yeah. The story of Hans and Sophie Scholl is a remarkable one. Here's a brother and sister that found themselves at the University of Munich at a time when dissent from the Nazi party was not allowed. But they were disgusted by what they saw both in terms of the recklessness of the Nazi government, what they saw as the human rights abuses, particularly the treatment of the Jews. And so they started to resist. They started to publish pamphlets under the name of the White Rose Resistance. And they distributed those pamphlets around the university campus. They mailed them to nearby communities. And we know that those pamphlets that they produced documenting the atrocities of the Nazis and all of those things went far and wide. In fact, on Liberation Day, when the Allied bombers flew over Germany and dropped leaflets to the German people informing them, they dropped some of those pamphlets of the White Rose. They had gone as far as the United States, but Hans and Sophie Scholl were caught. It was when they were doing a distribution on the university campus. A janitor spotted Sophie trying to scatter papers quickly and turned them in, and they were arrested. In fact, not only were they were arrested, but within a time period of just four days, they were put on trial. They were accused, convicted, sentenced, and beheaded by guillotine, all within four days. Their story has become a remarkable story of faithfulness to what's true, even in the middle of terrible circumstances. Steve Garber, in his book the Fabric of Faithfulness, is where I first came across the story of the White Rose and Hans and Sophie Scholl and kind of summed up the way that they thought about their calling this way. I am Christian, I am German, therefore I'm responsible for Germany. Wow, What a remarkable line. And you think about all the details of our lives that we don't choose. You know, the time and place that we're in, the country that we're in the family that we're in. In a Christian understanding, those things aren't random. Those things were intentionally chosen by God. He put us in this time, in this place, not in another time, another place. And I have been just kind of haunted by Os Guinness observation that we're in this civilizational moment. Because it's not just a random context to which we find ourselves. It is a calling. And this is just directly in line with what I learned from Chuck Colson. What is God calling us to do? What is God calling us to be? Who is God calling the church to be in this civilizational moment? And that kind of formula from Hans and Sophie show, I'm Christian, I'm German, therefore I'm responsible for Germany. What would that look like for us? I'm Christian, and I live in this 21st century civilizational moment. So what is God asking me to do to fulfill the ministry of reconciliation to which he's called us to? I hope it's not overwhelming. It is a little overwhelming to think about this. And I'm not saying it as if all the weight of the world and the future of the west rest on our shoulders. Look, the future of the west world is not the future of the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is secure. I don't know if we're in a Bonhoeffer moment where all of our efforts will come undone, or if we're in a Wilberforce moment where all of our efforts, God will bless and bring renewal. I know God's called us to this moment, and he's called us to faithfulness in the middle of this moment.
- [17:15]
John Fuller
John, what does it mean to apply the Christian worldview to our particular cultural context?
- [17:22]
John Stonestreet
Well, you know, I think a lot of people realize that the Christian faith is personal. And it is. It's one of the best parts about it that the God who has revealed himself in Christ Jesus is our personal Lord and Savior, which is great. But the confusion comes when we treat the Christian faith as not only personal, but as private. It's just me and Jesus. That's not what the Bible gives us. The Bible gives us the account of reality, the story of the whole world. What that means is, is that the culture that we live in is a moment. It's not the whole story. It's easy to confuse a story in a moment, Right? And it's easy to stand in the middle of a particularly chaotic moment like ours and then doubt the story or lose track of the story. And what the story of a Christian worldview gives us is the larger context so that we can find ourselves in this moment.
- [18:14]
John Fuller
That is really well said. You know, bouncing off of that too. I'm thinking of the many 20 somethings, 30 somethings that I've come across, Christian campuses, I've spoken at their chapels, et cetera. I love it. There is such great potential in what the Lord is doing part of that right now. And you've mentioned this on Breakpoint, which is something people should sign up for. I read Breakpoint almost every day, so thank you for that, great work. But in Breakpoint, you mentioned that, that young men particularly are being drawn back into the church. What's happening there, man?
- [18:47]
John Stonestreet
I think that this is one of the most fascinating headlines because I'm old enough to remember the rise of the nones.
- [18:53]
John Fuller
Yeah, everybody's leaving.
- [18:55]
John Stonestreet
That's right, the nones. Not the nuns, but the nones, those who would mark unaffiliated on a survey. That number was growing for the last 10, 15, 20 years, where more and more people were willing to say, I'm not religious, I'm not religious. That number has not only plateaued, it now is shrinking. And the number of young people that are religiously affiliating is now going up, up. And especially among young men, we don't see the same trend line among young women, but we are seeing around young men. You know, I don't know what all the reasons are. I do think God is reaching out to this generation. You know, I think 10, 15 years ago we were worried that young men couldn't think past a tweet. Now they're listening to three hour podcast.
- [19:38]
John Fuller
There's something stirring their heart.
- [19:40]
John Stonestreet
Something is stirring their heart. And I think it's the vision of expectation. You know, many thinkers have talked about the tyranny of low expectations. And young men have been given low expectations for a long time. Their masculinity is toxic. They never amount to anything, and so on. I think that they are pushing back and I think that they are seeking more. I think that it's impossible for us to live without meaning for very long. And they're on a search for it and God is revealing it. And I want to say just something quickly too, about what you said about whether the younger generation are orthodox enough and so on. I don't think they are. I think that they need to be more orthodox and more tied to truth. But if they're not, that's our calling. Our calling is to mentor them into this truth and trust that the Lord is working in their hearts and is bringing them to A place of influence. And we're seeing that he is and that there's a great potential. So I don't know what the Lord's doing in this time and place, but I always go back to what T.S. eliot said. For us, there's only the trying, and the rest is God's business. Or what was on Chuck Colson's desk for so long. The goal is faithfulness, not success. We leave the results to him, but let's be excited about what he's doing in the world right now.
- [20:54]
John Fuller
Yeah. That's so good, mentioning Chuck Colson. I mean, you were mentored by him. He did that in a different way. I mean, he and I had lunch three or four times. He called me, especially during transition here at Focus on the Family, and just encouraged me. It was very kind of him. But all of those things and especially a deep dive for you taking over the Colson Center. That must have been amazing and just really helpful in so many ways.
- [21:20]
John Stonestreet
Listen, Chuck Colson was larger than life. He mentored and encouraged so many. And I've met them, and they tell the story with such sincere. Like you just did of moments in time where Chuck really leaned in. And I had the privilege and the benefit of hearing him speak. He was so passionate and committed to truth. And at the core of this was the fact that Christ saved him and he never got over that. You were in rooms with Chuck Colson. He was always the smartest guy in the room. Always. And what God did was take these enormous gifts that he had invested in his life and then redeemed them and then used them in remarkable ways. And to be a part of that legacy is just the highest of honors.
- [22:05]
John Fuller
So good. There was a woman in your hometown who really impacted you. I think her name was Omega Buckner. What was her story and why did it strike you in such a profound way?
- [22:15]
John Stonestreet
You know, when we think about stories of faithfulness to where the places God has put you, I think of Omega Buckner. When I was in ninth grade, I met Ms. Buckner, and she was a shut in from our church. She wasn't able to leave, and we were sent to visit her, me and one of my friends, against our wills. There's a whole story behind that. I was just in the ninth grade, and you know what? That visit was a pivotal moment in my life. I had no idea at the time because I didn't really want to be there. I had no interest really in getting to know her. But she prayed for us in a way that was really stunning. And I Saw her a year later, and that's a whole story of God's sovereignty and providence over my life. And I said, Ms. Buckner, you probably don't remember me, but we met a year ago or so, and. And she looked at me and she said, john, I prayed for you this morning. That woman prayed for me every day for the last eight years of her life. She could never leave the little apartment extension that had been built on the end of her grandson's house. That was her time and place, and she had a profound impact on my life. About a decade or so after she died, I went back and had a speaking engagement in the community there, and I told her story. And I looked around this room of about 700 or 800 people, and people were crying, tearing up, shaking their heads. And I realized before I even got into the details of how this woman had invested in my life and prayed for me and so on, that she had done the same thing for a whole lot of people. I have a whole new understanding of what it means to be faithful to a particular time in a particular place. One would look at Omega Buckner when I knew her, when she was between the ages of 89 and she finally passed away when she was 97, and think, well, she doesn't have much of a calling, you know, but she did. And if she can be faithful to her calling, can I be faithful to mine? If she can be faithful to the time and place where God placed her, can I be faithful to the time and the place where he's placed me? If she can steward. Well, the sphere of influence which one would look at and say it's pretty small, but ended up changing an entire community. Can I be faithful in the sphere of influence with the relationships that he's brought before me? That's what Truth Rising is all about. Yeah. We need to know kind of the you are here in human history where we are. It's a civilizational moment, but the question is always, what are we going to do in this moment? What are we going to do with the calling that God has put on our lives as individuals, as his church, to this moment? How then shall we live? And her story has always changed how I think about that, how I think about faithfulness, and how I think about leaving the results up to God.
- [25:17]
John Fuller
Well, I mean, you said it so well right there. And that's the essence of what we're talking about with Truth Rising. And John, again, I'm so proud that we were able to do this together.
- [25:25]
John Stonestreet
It is an honor for us and.
- [25:26]
John Fuller
I hope it has just global impact, you know, that millions of people will watch it, some Christian, some non Christian. For those that are non Christian, that you would find faith and hope in Christ. That would be an extreme honor that that project would do that for the Christian church, that we would go deeper in our faith and hear that call and know the moment we're in and then do more to bring the kingdom of God to this earth that desperately needs it. So thank you for that. Thank you for pouring into that. It's not a capture of a mom life's work for you that we were able to put on film and Oz Guinness as well. And it's just again, an honor. Thank you for being with us.
- [26:06]
John Stonestreet
Well, thank you. It's always an honor to be with you and to work with you and focus on the family and with Oz. And this is a remarkable project. We're really proud of it.
- [26:14]
John Fuller
September 5, a global streaming event and you can sign up at Focus on the Family. John will give those details. In addition to that, John's worked on a four part curriculum on the back end of that. We encourage you to get that as well. So you can not end the journey with the documentary, but get that four part series to deepen your faith to have a better understanding of the moment. Yeah.
- [26:36]
Jim Daly
Truth rising releases on September 5th and you can sign up for free access. The details are in the show notes. And coming up next time, Dave and Ann Wilson describe the importance of unity in marriage.
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Dave Wilson
I think that God knew that there was an enemy in the garden. And it would take the man and the woman linking arms, standing toe to toe, side to side, back to back, to defeat the enemy that they couldn't defeat him. Apart or alone, they would need each other to defeat the enemy.
- [27:07]
Jim Daly
Thanks for listening today to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [27:25]
Dave Wilson
If the fights with your spouse have become unbearable, if you feel like you can't take it anymore, there's still hope. Hope Restored Marriage Intensives have helped thousands of couples like yours. Our biblically based counseling will help you find the root of your problems and face them together. Call us at 1-866-875-2915. We'll talk with you, pray with you and help you find out which program will work best. That's 1-866-875-2915.