Joyfully Embracing God’s Children (Part 2 of 2)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Episode: Joyfully Embracing God’s Children (Part 2 of 2)

Date: February 25, 2026
Guests: Heather and Josh Avis
Host(s): Jim Daly and John Fuller

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Episode Overview

This episode concludes the remarkable adoption journey of Heather and Josh Avis, a couple who opened their hearts to children with special needs—specifically Down syndrome—following a season of infertility. They share candidly about the fears, obstacles, and abundant blessings that come with saying "yes" to God through adoption. Their story, rich with honesty and faith, explores not only the practical challenges but the deep, spiritual transformations that come from obeying God’s call, and challenges listeners to consider their own role in orphan care.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Wrestling with God’s Call to Special Needs Adoption

• Initial Reluctance and Heart Change ([00:31-04:07]):
  • Heather describes an unexpected initial stirring in her heart when presented with the idea of adopting a child with Down syndrome:

    “Instantly, God did something in my heart… I was not excited…I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no…” (Heather Avis, 00:31)

  • Bounced between feeling empowered and overwhelmed during their European trip as they weighed pros and cons.

    “Not one of the items on the con list was a good enough item to say no to.” (Heather Avis, 04:07)

  • Ultimately, simplicity of seeing adoption as responding to a child who needs a family.

Processing Fears & Family Reactions ([05:30-07:50])

• The couple was honest about oscillating between courage and fear.
• Family was initially cautious but supportive; Heather’s mother worried Heather was motivated by a “rescue” mentality.
  • “Hey, mom, you have to trust who you raised me to be, who God’s made me to be, and what He’s calling us to in this.” (Heather Avis, 06:37)
• Grandparents and extended family had natural concerns about long-term caregiving responsibilities.

Understanding Down Syndrome & Adoption Realities ([09:08-12:22])

• Medical Overview: Down syndrome explained as an extra 21st chromosome (trisomy 21), with potential physical and medical challenges.
• Their First Adoption – Mason:
  • Initial “yes” to Down syndrome followed by learning about even more severe medical fragility (serious lung and heart issues for the baby).
  • “Now we’re not just saying yes to Down syndrome, we’re saying yes to we don’t know.” (Heather Avis, 12:22)
  • Heather’s approach:

    “For us, it was one foot in front of the other, literally… I don’t have to know that. I just have to know the story.” (Heather Avis, 12:34)

Cultural Perspective: The Value of Life ([12:54-16:05])

• Jim Daly shares sobering stats: “70% of babies that are in utero that are diagnosed with Down syndrome are aborted.” (Jim Daly, 12:54)
• The Avisa respond, expressing heartbreak and alarm, while also critiquing society's pursuit of “perfection.”
  • “If people with different abilities are being formed in their mother’s wombs, created in the image of God as they are… we’re missing out on a huge piece of God if we’re not willing to do life intimately with them…” (Heather Avis, 14:14)
  • “What’s happening with the Down syndrome world… It’s an idea of ‘Are people with Down syndrome human? Are they worthy of life?’” (Heather Avis, 15:09)

Miracles and Everyday Parenthood ([16:05-21:33])

• Mason’s challenging start gave way to miraculous healing:
  • "Two years later, she’s miraculously cured from this lung condition and off oxygen and all medications... we are now front row seat to miracles." (Heather Avis, 16:14)
  • “We just celebrated her ninth birthday. I remember…they said ‘can’t guarantee she’ll live past eight…’” — Josh recounts the emotion of surpassing this milestone ([17:27]).
• Second adoption: “Truly,” a healthy, strong-willed girl with her own unique heritage; Heather candidly admits the transition was tough.
• Parenting the Strong-Willed Child:
  • Humility and self-reflection needed; children aren’t little adults.
  • “I'm the adult and she is a tiny child. And so that's not fair… She was like a refiner's fire for me.” (Heather Avis, 20:21)
  • Emphasis on apologizing to her child, giving grace, and not suppressing the God-given traits that might make parenting difficult.

Continuing the Journey: Third Adoption ([22:16-22:55])

• Third child, August Riker, also adopted with Down syndrome.
  • “He’s the bearer of joy… He just fit right in.” (Josh Avis, 22:51)

Encouragement & Challenge to Listeners ([23:00-End])

• Advice to those considering foster or special needs adoption:
  • “You gotta take that one big step… say, great, I’m terrified, this is going to overwhelm me… Okay, I’m still going to take that step.” (Heather Avis, 23:23)
• Fundamental spiritual challenge:
  • Jim Daly: “How do we shake the shackles of that desire to have an easy life, a comfortable life?”
  • Heather: “The things that are the most worthy in life are not going to be easy, period… Where God resides, where his heart beats the loudest, is not in those easy, comfortable places.” (24:14)
• Call to action to help children in foster care, even by supporting adoptive families in the church or neighborhood.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Not one of the items on the con list was a good enough item to say no to.”
  — Heather Avis (04:07)
• “Hey, mom, you have to trust who you raised me to be, who God’s made me to be, and what He’s calling us to in this.”
  — Heather Avis (06:37)
• “For us, it was one foot in front of the other, literally. Like, I’m going to lift up my foot, I’m going to put it down. I have no idea where my second step is.”
  — Heather Avis (12:34)
• “If people with different abilities are being formed in their mother’s wombs, created in the image of God as they are… we’re missing out on a huge piece of God if we’re not willing to do life intimately with them or let them live at all.”
  — Heather Avis (14:14)
• “You’ve got to take that one big step. I think you have to really abandon all those fears or say, great, I’m terrified… Okay, I’m still going to take that step.”
  — Heather Avis (23:23)
• “Where God resides, where his heart beats the loudest, is not in those easy, comfortable places.”
  — Heather Avis (24:14)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Wrestling with God’s Call: [00:31–05:30]
• Family Reactions and Internal Struggle: [05:30–08:11]
• Explaining Down Syndrome & First Adoption Challenges: [09:08–12:22]
• Abortion Rates and Societal Value of Life: [12:54–16:05]
• Miracles with Mason & Parenting Realities: [16:05–21:33]
• Second and Third Adoptions, Parenting Insights: [22:16–23:43]
• Spiritual Challenge to Pursue God’s Heart over Comfort: [23:49–24:49]
• Final Encouragement & Call to Action: [25:06–end]

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Tone & Atmosphere

Conversational, transparent, emotionally rich, and deeply faith-driven. Jim Daly and John Fuller draw out reflective and challenging insights from Heather and Josh, often using gentle humor and relatable personal stories. Heather and Josh are unafraid to express fear, inadequacy, and awe at seeing God’s hand through difficulty.

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Highlights for New Listeners

• This is a raw, real look at the challenges—and unmatched blessings—of special needs adoption.
• Empowers ordinary believers to take one step at a time, even through fear.
• Busts cultural myths that only “super parents” can love and raise children with special needs.
• Offers hope, practical wisdom, and fresh perspective for any listener considering adoption, foster care, or simply seeking to emulate God’s heart.

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For further information on adoption, special needs parenting, or for Heather Avis's book The Lucky Few, see the Focus on the Family website or links in the show notes.

Transcript

[Focus on the Family Announcer]

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[Marriage Intensive Participant]

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[Heather Avis]

instantly, God did something in my heart when I read those words, babies with down syndrome. And it was instantaneous. And it was, I was not excited about this. I wasn't like, yes, Lord, let's step towards this. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And like Josh and I lag behind and he's like, what's going on? I tell him and I'm waiting for him to say, oh, no, that's not what we're going to do. And he goes, yeah, I think we should pray about that.

[John Fuller]

That's Heather Avis remembering a significant turning point in her marriage and family. And you'll hear more from her and her husband Josh today on FOCUS on THE FAMILY with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.

[Jim Daly]

You know, last time we featured a great conversation that we recorded a few years ago with this remarkable couple. Heather and Josh described their torturous years of infertility, wondering where God was and why he wasn't answering their prayers for a baby. Then the Lord revealed a different path for their family, the path of foster care and adoption. Heather and Josh were willing to embrace that and now they have three children. They've adopted two of them with down syndrome. And you know, John, some of my heroes are parents who are raising children with special needs, especially when you are opting in to take care of those kids, that can be a challenging job. And my heart goes out to you if that's your story. Here at Focus on the Family, we want to encourage you any way we can. One great resource we have is our special needs parenting audio collection. This collection features some of our best programs and stories from parents just like you. Over five hours of inspiring content and

I know you'll find it helpful.

Best of all, it's completely free. Contact us if you'd like.

[John Fuller]

Yeah, you can sign up for that collection. The link is in the show notes. We also want you to know about the book that Heather Avis has written capturing their remarkable story. It's the Lucky Finding God's Best in the Most Unlikely Places. Check that out on the website as well and now here's part two of our conversation with Josh and Heather Avis on today's episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

[Jim Daly]

Heather and Josh, welcome back to Focus.

[Heather Avis]

Thank you.

[Jim Daly]

It was so wonderful last time. You spoke so boldly, so transparently. And I'm sure I know listeners connected with where you were at, what you have walked through, how God has sustained you. And again, John, if people miss that, I would get that through a download or just call us, we'll get you the cd, whatever we can do. But it was really inspiring, and that's a big word to use. I want to continue on. We dropped off last time where you had been, been working with an agency. You had just taken the trip to Romania, missions trip. The agency had texted you or emailed you saying, we have two kids, but they both have down syndrome. It's hard to place down syndrome children, but right at that moment, you kind of thought, okay, maybe I do want to say it's almost angelic. I mean, most people would say, I can't carry that burden. That's too much for me. The Lord will know I've got so much that's going on. How did you process that? How did you say I could do this? You've only been married four years. You're young, in your mid-20s. This is going to be a load. This isn't just normal parenting.

[Heather Avis]

Yeah, definitely how God kept nudging us along the way. We had a week left in Europe that Josh and I just did together and went to Greece. And we spent that entire week. The majority of our conversations were around this idea of adopting a child with down syndrome. And Josh would make lists, pros and cons list. I'm not that organized the way that I think, but Josh is. And he would do lists like, all right, pros and cons. And what it really came down to is as people who love Jesus and who desire to have a heart that beats like his, not one of the items on the con list was a good enough item to say no to. Being parents to a child who needed parents, that at the end of the day, there was a baby who needed a mom and a dad. We were a mom and a dad. That was it. And that's enough. And that's enough. And I think that's a huge piece of adoption is at the end of the day, there's a child who needs a family. You can be a family, and that can be enough. We moved forward in that way. And even after saying, okay, yes, let's learn more, we Got home from Europe, called a social worker. It's a very long story. But we even in that moving forward, it was like, okay, it was a roller coaster. We're so excited. We got this. And then an hour later, no, no, no, no, we cannot do this. What would this look like for our life? This is terrifying. This is overwhelming. We're not equipped. And then the next day, okay, we can do it, we can do it. So it wasn't just a seamless.

[Jim Daly]

And I appreciate that. So that vacillation, did it come from both of you or was it one of you predominantly that you were ret going forward, or was it a shared kind of thing where, depending upon the day, Josh, you were saying, honey, come on, really? And then the next day it was you? I mean, that's completely natural. I understand this.

[Heather Avis]

Yeah, for sure.

[Josh Avis]

Yeah, it was definitely a process. For sure. It was up and down. I think it was a lot of hard conversations where I would pull her up or she would pull me up, or you would try to convince the other or. And even hard conversations with family to be honest and hard conversations with our support around us saying, are you sure about this?

[John Fuller]

And so were family members saying, hey, don't do this.

[Josh Avis]

I think they're just protective of us.

[Heather Avis]

Right. No one ever flat out said, don't do this. But it was a lot of like, oh, okay, tell us more. Why are you doing this? I have always been like a cheerleader for the Underdog since I was really little. Like, since my parents can recall and since I can recall, I've had this heart that breaks for the brokenhearted. And so my mom, I think, was worried that I was trying to rescue. That I was trying to do this big, noble thing and rescue this poor, poor child. And that my intentions maybe weren't going to be healthy in the long run for me. And I'm her daughter, so she's looking at me as her daughter, like, what is this going to mean for your life? And so I did have a conversation with my mom where I decided to say, hey, mom, you have to trust who you raised me to be, who God's made me to be, and what he's calling us to in this. I need you to just trust right now.

[Jim Daly]

Did the question. Did you appreciate the question for solidifying the decision you already had in your heart? Was there any appreciation for your mom's forcefulness with that?

[Heather Avis]

Oh, absolutely.

[Jim Daly]

I mean, I could see myself as a dad of a now 17 year old. In a few years, he might make that decision. I might ask that question, in part, just to make sure that my adult son or daughter really has counted the cost.

[Heather Avis]

Right. Yeah. And I think that's also why we went to our parents and went to our people who we could love and trust, because we needed that support. Yeah, that support and the different perspective. We needed people to be pushing back because it was a big decision for us. And I was 27 years old, you know, and it was a big decision because we also, at any given time could have said no firmly and officially. And then probably within a few weeks, been receiving a phone call for this healthy infant we've been waiting for.

[Jim Daly]

Sure.

Let me.

This just the thought came to me. Do you think either of your parents, did they think, what are we being pulled into here when we have to babysit and caretake? Was there any of that consideration that you're aware of? I mean, I hadn't thought about that,

but that would be a normal grandparenting question here.

[Heather Avis]

Yeah, I think there is. A lot of people's first reaction is, what does this mean long term? Like this? What are you gonna do with this child when you're gone? Who's taking care of this child as an adult? And things are very different now in the down syndrome world. That narrative is really changing significantly. That's a whole other topic. But definitely, I think all of everyone in our family was like, okay, this has huge implications on the entire family. Because it does, you know, and even my. I have an older sister who had two kids at the time. And thinking of my. Our future daughter's cousins and that there's. There's no burden or pressure on anybody, but if the day comes that no one can care for our daughter and she does need extra care, is it my nephew and niece, you know, like that everyone here is affected and before that child enters our lives, a child with down syndrome, I think that it is this idea of this is. This is a lot. This is heavy. This is too much. And then enter said child and everyone's tune changes almost instantly to like, oh, no, I get her, I get her. I get her. Like this battle over that.

[Jim Daly]

I have a smile on my face because I know the kids are with the grandparents right now. That's proof in the pudding. You know, some people, Heather and Josh, may not even understand the diagnosis of down syndrome. They hear it, and we've heard it in the news lately. There's some things that have happened in other countries. What are the obstacles? What are the hurdles? What does a Down syndrome child display?

[Heather Avis]

Yeah. So down syndrome is just the 21st chromosome, they have three 21st chromosomes. So everyone with down syndrome has one extra chromosome. So it's called trisomy 21. So that's the scientific description. Medical, I don't know. And the thing that with down syndrome is there are some similar characteristics. So often it's like there's physical. So like an almond shaped eye, usually a little bit smaller in stature, flat face, like a flatter nose, muscle tone, low tone is very common and some kind of an intellectual disability. And then there can be heart defects. I think it's about 60% of kids with down syndrome are born with a heart defect and hearing problems, vision problems, higher likelihood for leukemia, higher likelihood for Alzheimer's. So those are all characteristics that are terrifying. Right. On paper. I think that we forget as people that when you're giving birth to a child who has no special needs, that a lot of those are the same risks as they get older. Right. Like there are, if you're going to look at, there's all these possibilities for this child who's totally healthy at birth, they could also have any one of these things. Not necessarily that same for down syndrome.

[Jim Daly]

Now let's move through that story a little more because you didn't stop there. This is number one. What happened? What's it like bringing Mason home? Night one, week one.

[Heather Avis]

Oh, gosh. Month one. Right. We have to back up a tiny bit that when we first. So we say, yes, we want to move forward with possibly adopting a child with down syndrome. And then the social worker says, oh, okay, well, one of those babies was placed and the other one is. So we just found out all these medical needs. We're not looking at placing her. And we recognized later that they thought she wasn't going to live. They thought, so they're protecting everybody. They're protecting their adoption.

[Josh Avis]

She wasn't an option.

[Heather Avis]

They had just discovered this lung condition called pulmonary hypertension and that her heart defect was more severe than they had recognized. And at six weeks old, which is when we had found out about her, she was going to go in for a heart surgery, not open heart, but like a, a very serious heart surgery to help prolong her life. And that's where we had called and said, we're interested. And they're saying, oh my gosh, we don't know that she's going to live through the surgery. But they're not telling us that. So we hang up the phone and go, oh my gosh, what if we don't get a kid with down syndrome? And we recognize that God had done a complete shift in our hearts in that regard. And then we went along our lives, and a month later, they call and say, hey, that little girl we told you about went through a surgery. We have a better grasp on her health. Are you still interested? We said yes. And we go in, learn more about her, and all of a sudden, down syndrome is a back burner issue because she's on medications, she's on oxygen 24 7. Her lung condition is so severe that they don't know how long she's going to live. And we're just like, what are you doing? Lord. It was very frustrating.

[Josh Avis]

It became a baby very medically fragile.

[Heather Avis]

Right, right.

[John Fuller]

Yeah.

[Heather Avis]

And so now we're not just saying yes to down syndrome, we're saying yes to we don't know.

[Jim Daly]

But you're pressing ahead, right? Some of us are shaking our head.

[Heather Avis]

Oh, I know. No, we were shaking our heads and still moving forward.

[Jim Daly]

Shaking your head and pressing ahead.

[Heather Avis]

We didn't wanna say yes, but we knew no wasn't the answer. So we kept taking steps forward. That's what that looked like for us in that moment. And I think when I talk to a lot of people who say, like, how do you move forward when things are so scary and things are so challenging? And for us, it was one foot in front of the other, literally, like, I'm gonna lift up my foot, I'm gonna put it down. I have no idea where my second step is. And I don't have to know that. I just have to know the story.

[Jim Daly]

You know, I wanna just bring in some of the statistics because it's so important. 70% of babies that are in utero that are diagnosed with down syndrome are aborted.

[Heather Avis]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

I mean, 70%. I know. There's been, as I mentioned before, a lot in the news about Iceland and other countries now that almost 100% are aborted. This kind of turns that all on its head. Because some of the most powerful comments that I heard is that, why are we discriminating against children that just have some different physical attributes and they are impaired in different ways, but they're still human beings made in the image of God that need protection. As parents who have adopted down syndrome children, what does that make you feel like when they are talking about eradicating down syndrome by aborting everyone who's diagnosed with it?

[Heather Avis]

Yeah, it makes me feel. At first, it's like, wait, what? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Like, why would you do that? Because they're the best. And then it's Infuriating. And then it's a little bit terrifying for our humanity as a whole. Like that. As humans, we're okay, or we're wanting to live in a world where everyone is perfect with air quotes or doesn't have different abilities. And then you can go more concentrated as the church and say, okay, if people with different abilities are being formed in their mother's wombs, created in the image of God as they are, right? So then if they are image bearers of God, we're missing out on a huge piece of God if we're not willing to do life intimately with them or let them live at all. Amen.

[Jim Daly]

And Heather and Josh, the statement here, this is not a political statement. This is the condition of humanity. This is something that is in us. How do we treat one another? Do we do that by simply killing them? I mean, it seems. And you've got to be somewhat intimidating to that community who wants to eradicate down syndrome. I mean, for you to say, no, we will love these children. We will take these children in. God has given me a purpose in doing this. They must go.

What?

It's got to be an anathema to them.

[Heather Avis]

Definitely. And I think that the majority of people who are in the world in which they're choosing to eradicate down syndrome are people who are not doing life with down syndrome. I don't know this for a fact, but I could just. I want to say with a lot of confidence that chances are these people do not have a loved one with down syndrome. And the decision is being made purely out of fear and ignorance. And so it's not even a pro choice, pro life issue with this. What's happening with the down syndrome world and community? It's an idea of our people with down syndrome human. Are they worthy of life? Are they worthy of acceptance? And in the church, again, are they image bearers of God? Do they have giftings and talents like the rest of us? Can we see God in them? The answer is yes to all those questions. So people are deciding to terminate a pregnancy based on fear and ignorance, so then giving birth to that. So every time a child with down syndrome is terminated, we're just giving birth to more fear and more ignorance and then living in that.

[Jim Daly]

Heather, I've got to ask you, because I know every momma's heart is out there saying, where is Macy at today? What's happened? Is she doing well?

[Heather Avis]

Right, right, right.

[Jim Daly]

Okay, so answer that question.

[Heather Avis]

Yeah, no, I will answer that and I'll go back just a little bit because you had Said first days at home, first weeks at home, what's it like? And so we say yes to this child. It's terrifying. We bring her home, oxygen and all, and there's a baby in my arms. I'm a mom, and it's the most incredible life giving experience of my life. And so there we are, parents. It's all we know. We don't know any different. The next day, our very first day as parents, we go and meet with her surgeon to schedule open heart surgery. So, hello, welcome to parenthood. And then a month later, she has open heart surgery. It goes great. Two years later, she's miraculously cured from this lung condition and off oxygen and all medications. And so we are now front row seat to miracles. Seeing God's goodness, like this gift to get to experience that and see God in that way. And so we just held this child like, oh, my gosh, this is the best yes. We've ever said. We never would have known God so fully had we not taken this big risk. And today she's nine. Currently she has a cold, so that's a bummer. But she's doing great. She's amazing.

[Josh Avis]

She's thriving.

[Heather Avis]

Yeah. Health wise. We see cardiology and pulmonology every two years. We go in, they're like, she's great. Get out of here.

[Jim Daly]

That's what you want to hear?

[Heather Avis]

Yeah. No other health issues.

[Jim Daly]

Josh, you are feeling this emotion, man, your eyes are all watery.

[Josh Avis]

This story still gets me choked up. Yeah. I mean, you just see, we serve such a good God and he loves us so much. And so we got a front row seat to see this miracle baby. And, you know, we just celebrated her ninth birthday. And I remember when we talked to her cardiologist early on and he said, this lung thing is really scary. We can do the heart surgery, but, you know, we can't guarantee that she'll

[Jim Daly]

live past eight because of the lung issue.

Yes.

Wow.

[Josh Avis]

And so nine. Nine was a big one for us. You just celebrated nine years old.

[Jim Daly]

That is good. Miracles continue to happen. And those miracles meaning you didn't stop there. You ended up continuing to adopt. You adopted two more children. Describe those two kiddos.

[Heather Avis]

Oh, gosh. So we went into our next adoption just a lot wiser, I think, in having seen God so clearly and fully humbled through our first daughter and a lot more humbled. And so we went into our second adoption. God will take any child in the world. Who do you want for us? And we end up with this girl.

[Josh Avis]

It wasn't that quite angelic I love your honesty.

[John Fuller]

You have some boundaries, man.

[Jim Daly]

You're making me feel more interesting.

[Josh Avis]

We were closed fists on the first one, like we wanted. We had the list, we had that. This one, we walked in and said, God, our hands are open. So.

[John Fuller]

But we did.

[Heather Avis]

Your hands are open. My arms were like any child in the world. So.

[Josh Avis]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

So it was fitting you were enjoying this mommy thing.

[Heather Avis]

Oh, it was the best. It was so good. I mean, so hard. Right? All the mom is. All the parents out there know it is no joke parenthood, but it's so worth it.

[Jim Daly]

That is so true.

[Heather Avis]

So we end up with this little girl who has no health issues. She's got some family birth. Family history that's pretty heavy and serious that we had to talk about just very briefly because we knew we'd say yes.

[Jim Daly]

This is truly.

[Heather Avis]

This is truly. Yeah, we knew Truly little girl. And she's. We knew birth mother was Guatemalan and birth father's unknown. She came home at six months old and we've done DNA tests and things. So she's half African American, half Guatemalan, and she is just a spitfire. She's a world changer, but she's sick, so that's really hard.

[Jim Daly]

And you know, in the book, you touched on this and I'm glad we have a couple of minutes here to dig into this because you said she's your strong willed child. Those of us with strong willed kids, we're all laughing, going, yeah, I got one of those. But you said something in there that at first I was struggling with, and that was her attitude and her behavior. You came to the conclusion that I have a role in this. The way I'm parenting her may not be helping her. I kind of had a little conviction about that. So why did you look to yourself as the problem, not truly the strong willed child? Because we really get on those kids in a bad way. It's not me, it's because of you.

[Heather Avis]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

But maybe you can teach us how to look at it differently.

[Heather Avis]

Sure. I think that ultimately I'm the adult and she is a tiny child. And so that's not fair. Right. It's not fair to say, hey, three year old, mature, act like an adult, act like an adult, shape up. And she was so different than Mason. So people who have multiple kids. And I thought, hey, I'm a really good parent. And then entered Truly. I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing. So she was like a refiner's fire for me.

[John Fuller]

What did that look like on a day to day basis.

[Heather Avis]

It was really hard. It still is. I mean she's only six years old and Mason's nine and day to day it is just like a lot of grace. There's a lot of apologizing from me to her. I apologize often, sometimes daily for my reaction to her. What we're trying to figure out still and then and it's still and I think probably forever is God's made her to be a certain way. And maybe that rubs me the wrong way and I don't want to squelch that, you know, like, because I need control over these spaces. But she's not gonna let me have that control. That's not bad. She's not a bad kid. She's not outside of God's will. She's on this path she's supposed to be on. But it's hard for me cause I'm not her, you know, and we're very different or very similar.

[John Fuller]

But she's arguing a lot with you, I'm guessing.

[Heather Avis]

Yeah, yeah. Or she's pushing boundaries. Truly is. Where's the line? And then she's gonna put her toe over it and she's gonna look at you and go, now what sounds like a health. And I think that's pretty typical. Just family. Just family. And we always say the characteristics that truly has right now that are difficult are gonna serve her so well as an adult. So how do we hold those, help her manage those and not squelch them?

[Jim Daly]

I tell you, parents with a strong willed child. I think we repeat that our pillow talk at night is. I know it's hard right now, but I think it will really serve him well. Man. Jean and I have had that chat. Now you have a third child and we're running out of time. But describe just quickly your third child also syndrome.

[Josh Avis]

Yes, yes, yes. So again, we wanted to be parents again. And this time around, again we had our hands open. We did it. We weren't looking to adopt a kid with special needs. And sure enough, he aligned things and we met a birth mother who was pregnant with a little boy who had down syndrome. And we brought him home the day after he was born. And August Riker is. I would describe him as. He's the bearer of joy. He really is. He's three years old. Three and a half.

[Jim Daly]

I love the name August Riker. Yeah, sounds like a character in a novel.

[Josh Avis]

We have a beautiful relationship with birth mom and he just fit right in.

[Jim Daly]

Okay, this is the big push now we're down to the last minute. You're convincing me you're saying things that I'm warming up to. What should I do next? Maybe I should look into adoption. Maybe I should foster adopt. Maybe I should ask for a special needs child, maybe down syndrome, maybe something else. Push me over the line.

[Heather Avis]

Yeah, I think you gotta take that one big step. I think you have to really abandon all those fears or say, great, I'm terrified. This is gonna overwhelm me. Okay, I'm still gonna take that step. It really is a step. It's not some giant leap of faith. It's. I'm going to move forward towards this, recognize that this is God's calling on us if we love him and we want to know him more.

[Jim Daly]

Can I end with this one? I keep saying that, don't I, John?

[John Fuller]

We're going to end the program several times.

[Jim Daly]

It's this battle that we have, especially in Western culture, where we have leisure and comfort as our main goal. And it's really.

[Josh Avis]

That's not what God called us to.

[Jim Daly]

It's not. But how do we shake the shackles of that desire to have an easy life, a comfortable life? Now I'm starting to really put a knife into people's sides and say, lord, I know you're not calling me to that. That is a big step. That's not a little step.

[Heather Avis]

No, you're right. I think that, as in the west, we are pursuing this idea of, like, ease and comfort. How do we have this easy, comfortable life? And recognizing that the things that are the most worthy in life are not going to be easy, period. And where God resides, where his heart beats the loudest, is not in those easy, comfortable places. So if you want to hear God's heartbeat more fully, understand it more fully, and sit in the worth and value of life and humanity, then you have to be willing to step into those hard places. You can have easy. That's fine. But you're missing out on the heartbeat of God if you do that.

[Jim Daly]

That sounds so much like what the Lord would say to all of us. Heather Avis, author of the book the Lucky Few, and Josh, her wonderful husband. Man, you guys, you are rocking it, and it's awesome to see. Thanks for being a great witness.

[Heather Avis]

Yeah, thanks.

[Jim Daly]

Well, I hope this couple's wonderful story has encouraged you today. That's been our goal. And that you'll prayerfully consider what role you might play in helping children who are in foster care. There are many ways to get involved. Simply offering to help a foster or adoptive family in your neighborhood or at your church. I think that's the easiest way is a great place to start. And if you'll check out our Wait no More program in the US or Waiting to Belong in Canada, you'll find all the information that you need to engage. Of course, we'd also recommend you get a copy of Heather's book, send a gift of any amount to Focus on the Family and we'll send it right out to you as our way of saying thank you for being a part of the ministry.

[John Fuller]

And one of those financial partners who contributed wrote us and said this. It was a woman named Dolores. She said, when I hear all that you stand for, it draws me to the cross and makes me want to help however I can. What you focus on the family do for children who don't have a home touches my heart.

[Jim Daly]

That's exactly why we produce programs like

this one that puts a smile on everybody's face and why we need your help getting the word out about providing good and godly homes for children in foster care. Join Dolores in helping us any way you can with a one time gift or a monthly pledge. Anything you can do will make a difference. And let me say thank you in advance for your generosity.

[John Fuller]

Yeah, we welcome your support when you call 800, the letter A in the word Family 800-232-6459 or donate online and learn more about Wait no More and get your copy of the book the Lucky Few when you click on the links in the show notes. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

[Jim Daly]

Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us and it's our job as believers to share his truth and with a world in need, I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. Listen at Refocus with jimdaily.

[John Fuller]

Com.