← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
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- [00:01]
Asherita Choochu
Your marriage can be healed. A Hope Restored Marriage intensive from Focus on the Family can transform you and your spouse's relationship in just a few days. We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage. Discover more@hoperestored.com or that's hoperestored.com. I think the problem is we become complacent in thinking all there is to the Christian life is holding on and suffering until he brings us home. But God wants to restore his joy in us. He wants us to be filled with the presence of God's spirit, with his joy and delight. He wants more for us, I think, than sometimes we want for ourselves.
- [00:59]
Jim Daly
Right.
- [01:00]
John Fuller
Well, that's Asherita Chuchu, and she's with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And I'm John Fuller.
- [01:06]
Jim Daly
You know, John, there is no way around it. This life has pain and I'm sure some of you listening or watching are experiencing it right now. But there is good news and you're sitting in that pain going, how could there be good news? You don't know what's going on in my life. But Jesus hasn't left you, and he is with you if you will reach out to him. And I think it's one of those things where he adjusts our attitude toward life. Our circumstances may or may not change, and often we pray for just that. Lord change our circumstances and sometimes it happens and other times he gives us the ability to go through those circumstances regardless of what they are.
- [01:46]
John Fuller
Yeah. There's so much to be learned in the valley, and we're glad to have Asherita Choochu back with us today. She's a former missionary kid and a mom and a wife and founder of an online ministry called One Thing Alone Ministries, which helps overwhelmed women find joy in Jesus. And Asherita is also an author and she's written a wonderful book called Delighting in Rhythms to Restore Joy when youn Feel Burdened, Broken or Burned Out. And we've got details about Asherita, that ministry and this great book online. The link is in the show notes.
- [02:23]
Jim Daly
Escherita. Welcome to Focus. Welcome back. Really? Yeah.
- [02:26]
Asherita Choochu
Thank you so much for having me back. It's a joy to be here.
- [02:28]
Jim Daly
Good to have you. Let's start with that idea of one thing alone. What is it? What does that online experience do for somebody?
- [02:37]
Asherita Choochu
Yeah.
- [02:37]
Jim Daly
Yeah.
- [02:37]
Asherita Choochu
Well, the concept comes from Martha and her interaction with Jesus, where she's doing all the things, super busy and trying to get everything just right. And she misses the gift of the presence of Jesus right there with her. And Jesus looks and says, you are overwhelmed and busy and bothered about so many things, but only one thing is needed. And that was my heart when I started this years ago, is that for me, Jesus would always be that one thing. He would be the grounding center of my life. He would be the source of my joy and delight amid everything else that's happening. And that's my heart, is to encourage women in the church to keep their delight in Jesus, to make him their one thing alone.
- [03:19]
Jim Daly
Well, let's talk about the early 20s and what was happening in your family. And that may have been an early dose of this is real life, what was going on then.
- [03:28]
Asherita Choochu
Yeah, so I grew up in a missionary family, you mentioned that. And loved Jesus from an early age. My parents modeled for me what it looks like to serve the Lord. And yet what wasn't visible was what was happening behind the scenes, behind closed doors. And it wasn't until my early twenties when my father walked out on us, not just on his marriage, but on his children disowning me on the way out the door. And this is the man who led me to Jesus, the man who baptized me, who taught me how to read my Bible, who taught me how to use a Greek lexicon and do word searches, and really brought me alongside him in ministry and mentored me in ministry. And so for him to walk out and just cut off any ties was an earth shattering moment.
- [04:21]
Jim Daly
It had to be. I mean, that's devastating. The internalization of that is feeling, I would think feeling like worthless, like he's not even taking me into account or your mom into account. What was that feeling like?
- [04:38]
Asherita Choochu
I think it was disbelief at first.
- [04:41]
Jim Daly
Yeah.
- [04:42]
Asherita Choochu
My mom and I spent months praying for his return, praying for repentance, for restoration. And after that initial period of disbelief was anger that God would allow as, as we began to unpack what had happened. Now he started going to counseling and recognizing some of the dysfunctional systems that were part of our family and learning this is actually not the heart of God, our Father, toward us. This is not what God wants for his children, is to be hurt this way. Started feeling anger toward my father, but also toward God. Like, how can you let someone who can abuse power and hurt people to also preach the gospel? So in my early 20s, it was also what we would call now deconstruction, because I was trying to figure out what part of all of this that I grew up with is real? If the person who's supposed to most represent God, the heart of the Father and his love for me, can turn his back and disown me, will my heavenly Father do that as well?
- [05:51]
Jim Daly
Let me ask you, because that's. I mean, that is humanity. That's our experience. And this idea that if this part is not true, then are the other parts not true about faith? How did you as a 20 something daughter, wrestle through that and come to a healthy conclusion versus the deconstruction, saying, okay, it's all a farce?
- [06:18]
Asherita Choochu
Yeah. I got some good advice from our chaplain. I went to a Christian college and the chaplain was addressing the whole student body, knowing that this is part of, I think the growing up process for anyone who grows up in a Christian family is making your faith your own. And he was saying, if you find the ground beneath your feet crumbling, then back up and keep backing up until you're standing on solid ground. And then from there allow God to rebuild and to lead you in his truth.
- [06:46]
Jim Daly
Yeah.
- [06:47]
Asherita Choochu
And so I had to back all the way up to what, what is fundamentally true that I can hold on to. And it was that even if my father walked away, God will never turn his back on me.
- [06:59]
Jim Daly
Yeah.
- [06:59]
Asherita Choochu
That God is the perfect Father, that his love endures forever. That he is not an angry father, but rather a God of compassion and mercy and tenderness. And God in his kindness surrounded me with community that encouraged me to keep seeking his heart in scripture, who were able to help me disentangle my childhood and those experiences and saying, no, that is not the heart of God for you. I'm so sorry that happened so much in my 20s of just kind of backing up until I found that solid ground in God's word, but especially the heart of a father who delights in his children.
- [07:40]
Jim Daly
You know what's amazing about that? That is humanity. You look at the Old Testament and certainly in the New Testament too, such twisted stories. I mean, these are really dysfunctional people because they're us. They're not extraordinary. These are normal men and women of the Bible that had difficulty. King David, you know, an adulterer, a murderer. I mean, those things just are in us as humans. It's called sin. Right. But the remarkable thing that I see in your story is your ability to separate those two. And I think this is the greatest difficulty for each one of us is how to understand the bad things, the hypocrisy at times, but how to hold on to God's truth. And so many people jettison all of it, and they don't make that distinction that human beings are going to let us down. But God is solid, rock solid, and his word is true. But we don't see it always demonstrated through his people. And therefore we check out. So speak to that person that's in that moment right now. They're going, yeah, you know what? I lent that guy a thousand bucks, and he never paid it back. And he called himself a Christian.
- [08:55]
Asherita Choochu
Well, I would say whatever anger we experience toward the hurt that happened either to us in the church or to our loved ones in the church, God's heart breaks so much more in those situations. And it was just so healing for me as I continued studying Scripture to recognize that again and again, God's anger is shown toward those who are in positions of power and abuse their power to hurt those who were entrusted in their care. When you look at the prophets and how they speak against the kings and the leaders of Israel, it's almost always like you have turned your back on what God has commanded you. To love him, to love others. Looking at the heart of Jesus in the Gospels, how he's always reaching out to the outcast, the marginalized, those who were not enough, those who were hurt, that I think that was what was so healing and restorative to my heart to say, if I was hurt by this, how was the heart of the Good shepherd in that moment? If Jesus never leaves his children, he was with me in that moment and in that moment and in that moment. And Psalm 23, I know, has been such a comfort to so many people. And growing up in church, I memorized it at, I don't know, five or six. Such an early age, right? But it wasn't until I experienced that my Father leaving, and then the years that followed that I learned that what it means that even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. Not because it's not bad and not because, oh, God's gonna work it all for good like those, sure, but I will fear no evil because you are with me. And so recognizing that Emmanuel, God with us, that God's spirit within us, that he is with us in the hurt that the man of Sorrows suffered on the cross on our behalf. But I think he always lives to intercede for us. Hebrews says he sees our weakness, he hears our cries, and even when we have no words, his own spirit will groan on our behalf. It was that companionship of Jesus with me that he held onto me.
- [11:12]
Jim Daly
Yeah, now that's so good. And the other kind of component of all of that, when you look at modern Christian leadership, churches, whatever, you know, the very character of God is humility. I mean, it's one of the things that seems so elusive to the Christian community today. Maybe it's the Western overlay that we have, high achiever. But the very character of God being humility and his desire for us to know him that way. That's what you learned. If I could be that bold.
- [11:44]
Asherita Choochu
Right, right. And that was, I think, why I was saying the hardest moment for me was actually a few years ago, because it felt almost like whiplash seeing what was happening in the evangelical church in America. All the scandals that started hitting the headlines, I guess to use the term, like, triggered, it kind of brought up those old wounds again that, oh, it wasn't just my family. This is happening in churches around the country and in missionary families and pastors families and in churches. And then in 2020, 2021, it happened in our own church where the place where I felt safe and I felt held and that I belonged went through a crisis. And our senior pastor was investigated for abuse of power, for numerous things that just patterned the same way as I'd seen in my father. And I think that was why it just kind of bottomed out. Because it's this beautiful community that held space for healing. Even that is not safe anymore. Where do I go and how is this happening in the church and God? Don't you care? Don't you see what's happening? How are you just sitting by and doing nothing? And that was that moment of the dark night of the soul.
- [13:01]
Jim Daly
Yeah, you refer to it like an emotional breakdown. Was it on that par or how did it affect you so deeply?
- [13:09]
Asherita Choochu
Yeah, I mean, there were so many factors leading into this. Physically, I had been running at a pace that was not. Not sustainable in ministry and publishing and trying to pour into everything else while this was happening. And then Covid. And it was just so many layers. So emotionally it affected me. Like, I would read a headline of another pastor who had sinned and disgraced, and it was like for days afterwards, I would just enter this slump. But yeah, physically, mentally, emotionally, even spiritually, at that point was just this rock bottom moment. And there were days when I didn't want to get out of bed. Yeah, there were days when I would maybe make it through the morning and then collapse on the couch. And my husband was concerned, my mom was concerned. They were both like, this is not like, we need to do something here. We need an intervention.
- [14:03]
Jim Daly
Well, even noticing being stuck is so critical with a loved one, somebody in your immediate family. I mean, it's hard to recognize those things, like, what is really going on here. So I applaud your husband being able to say, are you okay?
- [14:17]
Asherita Choochu
And I think so many of us, whether you're in a position of serving in the local church or leadership or women in general, I think feel the compulsion to keep pushing on and keep pressing on. Like, I can't slow down.
- [14:29]
Jim Daly
This is back to Martha. Yeah, totally.
- [14:31]
Asherita Choochu
If I slow down, everything's gonna fall apart, which I think at the root of it reveals a distrust in God.
- [14:38]
Jim Daly
Esrita, let me ask you this again. I'm delving into areas that I maybe should not tread, not just for you, but just human experience. The discipline that you're describing, whether it's control or discipline, I've observed where people will move into that discipline, mistaking it for moving closer to the Lord. And it's really just ringing true in my head as I'm listening to you. Back to Martha. We move toward the things we can control, and we confuse discipline for closeness to God. In other words, if I read the Word and pray and do these spiritual disciplines, then the outcome will be whatever rather than the rest. That doesn't bring you rest. The rest in the Lord to say, okay, I'm my father's daughter, meaning my heavenly father's daughter. There's a distinction there. I don't know that I can describe it. Can you lift that up for me, though?
- [15:38]
Asherita Choochu
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up, Jim, because that's a lot of what I wrestled with, because when I was going through these experiences, the advice from Christians who left me and wanted to help was, well, you just need to read your Bible more.
- [15:51]
Jim Daly
The disciplines.
- [15:52]
Asherita Choochu
You just need to pray more. Are you going to church? Are you involved? Are you being discipled? Are you discipling others? It's all the things. And the truth is, I was. Now, there were seasons of my life where I. I felt like the Bible was boring. To be honest, I feel like we shouldn't say that, but anyone who's tried to read through the Bible in a year has gotten to parts of Leviticus or Deuteronomy or numbers where it's like, how is this supposed to help? I don't know. And I found myself doing the things and still feeling, this is not bringing refreshment. This is not bringing rest. Jesus says in Matthew 11, my burden is easy and my yoke is light. If you come to Me, I will give you rest. I'm like, but I'm doing all the things people are saying. Where is the rest? Where is the refreshment? And one day I was reading this place where Jesus is looking at the Pharisees, the teachers of the law, and he's saying, you read your scriptures, you know them well, you study them and you do well. And yet those very scriptures speak of me, yet you refuse to come to me. And I sat with that and I thought, how many times have I read the Scriptures and missed Jesus? How many times have I checked off, like my reading plan? I did it. I read my three chapters, let's move on with the day. And yet I didn't have a personal encounter with the living God in his Word, because I was just too busy going through the motions and doing the things. And my prayer became God, would you teach me to delight in you would open my eyes to see the wonder in your Word. Would you help me encounter you, the living Word in your Word?
- [17:35]
Jim Daly
And he answers that prayer, that linkage. And again, I'm going to say something that might hurt. That linkage to me is pride. When we are doing the disciplines and it may be so subconscious were earning and the Lord's saying, nope, that's not the way it works. I want you to rest in me, not work in me. Does that make sense?
- [18:00]
Asherita Choochu
Right. So what does that look like then? Because I'm not saying, don't read your
- [18:03]
Jim Daly
Bible right, you know, read it with the right attitude.
- [18:06]
Asherita Choochu
I think part of it what switched for me was to say, if Jesus says, I no longer call you servants, I call you friends. What does it look like to nurture a friendship with Jesus? That was a totally different mindset. To say, what does it mean to come to Scripture to say, I want to delight in the revelation of God that he has for me in Scripture to come to prayer and say, I want to delight in friendship and communication with God. That I would tell him, yes, but I would also hold space to listen to the good Shepherd's voice, to listen to that still small voice. What does it look like to engage in these spiritual disciplines in such a way that we are looking for Jesus in the practice of them, that we are encountering him in a real and life changing way? That is where he began to bring healing. It's in those things, but different, focused on each other.
- [19:03]
Jim Daly
I love this. I mean, we could sit and keep talking. You mentioned five rhythms in the book, five rhythms of joy. I think we need that hope now. I think we've Undressed our human nakedness here. Spiritually speaking. What are those five rhythms of joy that we find resting in Christ?
- [19:23]
Asherita Choochu
Yeah, well, they're all W words. Because I'm a word nerd.
- [19:27]
Jim Daly
Yeah. No, I love it. I love it.
- [19:29]
Asherita Choochu
And the first one is worship. It is delighting just in who God is.
- [19:35]
Jim Daly
If you're carrying a heavy yoke I have experienced, just begin to worship the Lord. Lord, thank you. Thank you for loving me. Just go and you'll be amazed at how that burden will lighten on your shoulders, on your heart. It is true. I have done it, and I applaud it.
- [19:53]
Asherita Choochu
It's also, I think, recognizing that all of life is worship. It's not just Sunday morning. It's not just when we play a praise song in our car. All of when I wash dishes and when I prepare a meal, when I fold laundry, if I'm presenting something before a board or I'm sending an email, all of it can be done as unto the Lord in friendship and relationship with God. C.S. lewis talks about how every part of life can become a channel of adoration. That we can look at the Son and say, what must God, the Creator be like? If this ball of fire he made somehow reveals his glory, what does that say about him? What about this baby that I get to hold that twinkle in their eyes? If I delight in them that much, how does the Father delight in me? Right. All of life then becomes worship. My friend Hannah says that her favorite thing is eating a Reuben sandwich for the glory of go.
- [20:51]
Jim Daly
I can relate to that. I like that idea. So you have worship and then word and whisper and wonder and walk. Obviously, these are things in the book that we're going to encourage people to pick up, knock off one or two others.
- [21:04]
Asherita Choochu
Yeah, I mean, word and whisper is prayer we already mentioned. So I'm going to go to wonder. And that is delighting in the gifts of God. And part of what fascinated me as I was doing, not just studying scripture, but also in brain science, is how God wired our brains for joy. And when we deliberately look for the good, when we recognize the gifts of God in our lives and we take time to thank him for those gifts and to recognize this isn't just a pretty sunrise. This is the God of the universe who paints the sky with color and then pausing to receive it as a gift awakens wonder and awe, which brain scientists have demonstrated heals the brain, creates synaptic connections here in the prefrontal orbital cortex. That's our joy center and moves us from the amygdala from the place of fear and scarcity and fight or flight, fight or flight, back to a place of peace and stability and serenity and joy. And so I geek out on that in the book. But recognizing even just every day, I try to take time to say, what are the little sparks of joy? What are the small things that brought a smile to my face that James says, every good and perfect gift comes from the Father above. And so can we receive that even in the midst of the hard, the burdens, the sorrow? We can begin to see God's good gifts in our lives and thank him for that.
- [22:31]
Jim Daly
That is so good. You know, right at the end here, one of the challenges, and I feel this at times, you know, you walk with the Lord for decades and you know you're in the Word. I think the most critical thing is being in the Word and praying. Those are the intimate things. Because God's going to show you so many different levels within the Word. You can read a passage one year and you come back and read it a year later, even months later, and it means something new. It's not going to change its entire meaning, but you're going to see it in a different way, different application. So the importance of doing those things. But I think over the decades, for those of us that are older, to keep that crisp, to be engaged with the Lord, so that we're not going. You know, 10 years ago when I read the Word regularly, I had a different sense of God than today when kind of the thorns of life have taken over. Would you agree with that?
- [23:26]
Asherita Choochu
Absolutely. And I. I think God delights in his children when we recognize that, and then turn to him and say, God, would you stir up a hunger for your Word in me, God? Psalm 13. Restore the sparkle to my eyes. I feel like I'm dying. Would you refresh my soul, God? Would you renew my spirit with the joy of your salvation? Would do this work? And his answer is always yes. I think the problem is we become complacent in thinking all there is to the Christian life is holding on and suffering until he brings us home. But God wants to restore his joy in us. He wants us to be filled with the presence of God's spirit, with his joy and delight. He wants more for us, I think, than sometimes we want for ourselves.
- [24:16]
Jim Daly
Right?
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Asherita Choochu
It's just humbly asking God, give it to more of you, more of your spirit, more of your presence, more of your Word, more answered prayer. I want more.
- [24:26]
Jim Daly
He says, yes, and that's John 10:10. You know, where the Thief comes meaning Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy. But the Lord says, I have come that you would have life and life more abundantly. And that's what you're talking about, man. We could just keep going on this theme, couldn't we? This is such a great topic. Asherita, thank you for being with. And let me turn to our listener. I hope you know Focus on the Family is here for you, man. I'm genuine about this, sincere. And as I said at the top of the program, your relationship with God is so important, and we want to help you grow in your relationship with the Lord. If you don't know where to start, we have a fantastic article called Coming Home that we will link to and it will walk you through some of those first steps of becoming a believer in Christ and help you better understand how to find your place in God's family. We have helpful resources available to you, like Asherita's outstanding book, Delighting in Rhythms to Restore Joy when youn Feel Burdened, Broken, or Burned Out. It's a wonderful guide full of biblical wisdom and heart to help you rediscover the joy you should have in Christ. And let me add this. Last year alone, over 970,000 people said, Focus on the Family help the grow stronger in their faith. That's almost a million people. But we can't do that kind of ministry without you. And you know, the engine here at Focus is powered by people like you, faithful listeners, John and Dina, Gene and I, to put the fuel in the tank here at Focus on the Family to further the kingdom of God. So let me just ask you, won't you partner with us today, give a gift of any amount, and we can send you a copy of Asherita's book as our way of saying thank you for being in it with us to help minister to others.
- [26:29]
John Fuller
Yeah. Partner with us today when you call 800, the letter A in the word family, 800-232-6459. When you have us on the phone, of course, ask about that Coming Home article. We'll give the link to you and it'll also be in the show notes. And of course, Asherita's terrific book, Delighting in Jesus. Again, our number, 800 the letter A in the Word Family. Or stop by the show notes for all the details. And coming up next time, we'll share a very special episode of Adventures in Odyssey.
- [27:05]
Asherita Choochu
That's it. That's why Dion is being so nice. Why? It's his new heart. What are you talking about? Deon must have gotten the heart of a nice person.
- [27:15]
Jim Daly
Whoa.
- [27:15]
Asherita Choochu
You think I'm right?
- [27:17]
John Fuller
Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [27:32]
Jim Daly
Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us, and it's our job as believers to share his truth with a world in need. I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. Listen at refocuswithjimdaily. Com.