Learning to Love Your Spouse Well (Part 1 of 2)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Focus on the Family with Jim Daly – "Learning to Love Your Spouse Well (Part 1 of 2)"

Release Date: August 7, 2025

In the enlightening episode titled "Learning to Love Your Spouse Well (Part 1 of 2)" from the Focus on the Family podcast hosted by Jim Daly, listeners are guided through a profound exploration of nurturing and sustaining a loving Christian marriage. Joined by seasoned guests Matt and Lisa Jacobson, the discussion delves deep into the biblical foundations of marriage, practical strategies for overcoming common challenges, and the spiritual dimensions that underpin a thriving marital relationship.

Introduction to the Jacobsons

The episode begins with Matt Jacobson expressing a message of hope for marriages facing difficulties. "The truth is there's hope for your marriage and you both want the same things and God wants the same things for you. He's on your side. So just remember who the real enemy is and there is hope" (00:03). John Fuller introduces Matt and Lisa Jacobson, highlighting their roles as authors and leaders in Christian communities dedicated to marriage and family.

Building a Strong Marital Foundation

Jim Daly outlines the podcast's commitment to addressing key marital issues such as busy schedules, financial stress, intimacy concerns, communication breakdowns, and lack of respect or appreciation. He emphasizes the importance of unity in marriage, stating, "It's vital for us as Christians, as the church, but certainly as married couples to demonstrate that unity" (00:49). This sets the stage for a heartfelt dialogue on strengthening marital bonds through faith and mutual understanding.

Matt and Lisa's Love Story

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Matt and Lisa sharing their unique love story, marked by a swift engagement that they attribute to divine guidance. Matt recounts, "We decided to get married in about six days […] We wanted to be biblical about the whole thing" (02:30). This rapid progression underscores their faith in God’s timing and plan for their relationship.

Lisa adds a humorous twist to their story, describing Matt’s initial reluctance: "If he was the last man on earth, I wouldn't go out with this guy. So. But I'm coming out and shook your hand" (03:24). Their candid recounting highlights the importance of patience, understanding, and allowing love to develop organically under God's design.

Cultivating Personal Faith and Respect

The Jacobsons discuss the critical concept of each spouse maintaining their personal faith without trying to control or "own" the other's spiritual journey. Lisa emphasizes, "It's pointless really, to try to live out faith for your spouse. […] an open hand" (07:10). Matt echoes this sentiment, highlighting the futility of expecting holiness from another: "Holiness only relates to one person. You can't be holy for somebody else" (08:05).

Jim Daly expands on this by connecting it to the broader spiritual context, advising couples to focus on their personal spiritual growth rather than trying to change their partner. "If you back up and back off, oftentimes you begin to see the very fruit that you were hoping to see" (10:12).

Sacrificial Love in Marriage

Transitioning to the theme of love as sacrifice, Matt explains the depth of biblical love, distinguishing between romantic love (eros) and selfless love (agape). "Agape love is that self-sacrificing, self-denying love that comes without an expectation of return" (11:00). He underscores that true marital love requires putting the spouse’s needs above one’s own, aligning with biblical teachings to cultivate a loving and respectful partnership.

Navigating Spiritual Battles

A pivotal discussion revolves around recognizing and combating the spiritual battles that can undermine marriage. Drawing from Ephesians 6, Matt likens the Christian life to a soldier preparing for battle: "You are in a spiritual battle, so recognize that as the context of your existence" (21:20). He stresses the importance of equipping oneself with the "armor of God," particularly the "sword of the Spirit," which is the Word of God. This metaphor serves as a powerful reminder of the constant spiritual vigilance required to maintain a strong and resilient marriage.

Resolving Conflict Through Faith

The Jacobsons share a personal anecdote about their first major argument, illustrating how they overcame conflict by turning to prayer. Lisa recounts, "He was on his knees by the bed and just praying about it… we were bringing it before the Lord" (17:58). This example highlights the effectiveness of faith-based conflict resolution and the importance of seeking divine guidance during marital disputes.

The Role of Laughter and Humor

Concluding the episode on a light-hearted note, Lisa and Matt discuss the significance of humor in marriage. Lisa shares, "It's kind of almost like a secret sauce to be able to laugh in your marriage" (22:47), while Matt adds, "We are goofy. There's no question." (23:11). Their playful interaction underscores how shared laughter and a sense of humor can strengthen the marital bond, providing relief during stressful times and fostering a joyful partnership.

Encouragement for Struggling Couples

As the episode wraps up, Matt offers words of encouragement to couples facing challenges: "There's hope for your marriage. And you both want the same things, and God wants the same things for you. He's on your side" (24:12). He urges listeners to remember that external forces may seek to undermine their relationship, but with mutual effort and divine support, a fulfilling and harmonious marriage is attainable.

Conclusion and Resources

Jim Daly concludes the episode by inviting listeners to engage with additional resources, such as the Jacobsons' companion books "Loving Your Husband Well" and "Loving Your Wife Well." He also promotes a free online marriage assessment available on the Focus on the Family website, encouraging couples to take proactive steps towards strengthening their relationships.

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights shared by Matt and Lisa Jacobson, providing valuable guidance for Christian couples seeking to enhance their marriages through faith, mutual respect, and intentional love.

Transcript

[Matt Jacobson]

The truth is there's hope for your marriage and you both want the same things and God wants the same things for you. He's on your side. So just remember who the real enemy is and there is hope.

[John Fuller]

Matt and Lisa Jacobson join us today on FOCUS on the FAMILY with Jim Daly talking about some of the ways that you can strengthen the love and the joy in your relationship with your spouse. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.

[Jim Daly]

Well, John, we create a lot of marriage content here at Focus on the Family primarily because that's one of our major areas is marriage and parenting and advocacy for kids and then engaging the culture in addition to evangelism and helping people come to know the Lord. So marriage is one of those prominent things that we try to help people do better, including ourselves.

[Matt Jacobson]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

I always benefit from these conversations, but you know, we're listening. This is a two way dialogue. I like the way Dr. Dobson always talked about that. You know, we want to hear from you, even if you just want to tell us something that's important to us because we collect that information and it helps shape future programs and content that we create. So if something strikes you or you have an idea, just let us know. John will give those details later. But we do listen. Some of the top questions we've received are about navigating busy schedules that's up there, certainly financial issues, often intimacy issues, communication and conflict and then a lack of respect or appreciation in that context of marriage. And these are important topics. Right. And although they often present themselves in small moments every day it's that drip, drip, drip effect. And over time that can become water torture in a marriage, if I could say it that way. It's vital for us as Christians, as the church, but certainly as married couples to demonstrate that unity. And we're going to talk about that today.

[John Fuller]

And Matt and Lisa Jacobson have been here before. Lisa is an author, a speaker and founder and host of Club 30, an online community of Christian women authors. And Matt is a teaching elder and pastor at Tumilo Bible Fellowship and the founder of faithfulman.com, which is a social media community focusing on family teaching. Together, Matt and Lisa have written two books. They go hand in hand. One is called Loving youg Husband well. And the other is Loving youg Wife well. And you can find details about those books in the show notes.

[Jim Daly]

Lisa and Matt, welcome back to focus. Good to have you.

[Matt Jacobson]

It's great to be back again. You bet.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. It's so fun. Let's get right to it. You had an amazing love story.

[Matt Jacobson]

We do have a love.

[Jim Daly]

A lengthy engagement. I really love this. You guys kind of knew right away where you were going. Describe how love became real to you as you went along.

[Matt Jacobson]

Well, I suppose most people don't know that. We decided to get married in about six days.

[Jim Daly]

Well, God created the universe in six days.

[Matt Jacobson]

Well, that was it. We wanted to be biblical about the whole thing, so.

[Jim Daly]

Hadn't thought about it that way.

[Matt Jacobson]

Six days.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. Six days is fast.

[Lisa Jacobson]

We met on a Friday night, and I knew that was the man I was gonna marry. I can't explain that. I just knew in my heart. And I thought. I just remember thinking, oh, I'm really looking forward to getting to know him. Because I knew that was who I was gonna marry. It took him longer, though. It took him a few more days before he figured out 10 days. Three days.

[Jim Daly]

Well, we're slow, you know.

[Lisa Jacobson]

Three days took him. Three days.

[Jim Daly]

Three days, yeah.

[Lisa Jacobson]

And by six days, we were talking mar. Wow. So it was a. And it just seemed very natural at the time. He goes, you know what this means, don't you? And I go, yeah, we're gonna get married. He goes, yep.

[Jim Daly]

So how did that. Yeah, there is a process to this. That's a pretty. You're going from square one to 25.

[Matt Jacobson]

I don't know if we have time for the whole story, but my assistant. I used to work in publishing, and my assistant came to me one day and said, would you be willing to date my friend? Here's her picture. And I said, oh, absolutely. Let's do it. And so she called. She was living in Southern California at.

[Jim Daly]

The time when she said, take your friend. What does she mean by that?

[Matt Jacobson]

Oh, d. Did I say take? Yeah, date. Would you be willing to date my friend?

[Jim Daly]

Oh, I heard take, but that's good. Date is far better.

[Lisa Jacobson]

Take her.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, just take her off my hands, my friend. She's driving me nuts.

[Matt Jacobson]

Yeah. It wasn't till after we were married that you said, take me. No, wait. Oh, wait. This is a family show. But anyway, so I said, sure. And so she walked into my office in about a week after that. And all this happened behind the scenes. I didn't know that she had called Lisa. Turns out Lisa was coming up to visit and had some other things to do, I think involved in a wedding. And so I said. I had said sure. She knocks on my door. My assistant knocks on my door, and she says, you know that girl I was telling you about? I said, yeah. She said, well, she's standing right outside Your door. And I was thinking you could take her to lunch. Wow.

[Jim Daly]

I think this woman was the matchmaker.

[Matt Jacobson]

And I said, that's not gonna happen.

[Jim Daly]

Oh, wow.

[Lisa Jacobson]

She goes, well, this was our first meeting.

[Matt Jacobson]

She said, what? I said, I'm not gonna be. What? She's here now. I said, sorry, you're taking her to lunch, not me. She said, well, would you at least come out and meet her? So I said, sure, I'll come out. And I was really polite.

[John Fuller]

That kind of attitude.

[Matt Jacobson]

I was really polite.

[Lisa Jacobson]

He was so rude. You were rude.

[Jim Daly]

Wow. And you knew right then he's the man you want to marry.

[Matt Jacobson]

That's why I said, there's a little backstory here.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, okay.

[Lisa Jacobson]

No, I said, if he was the last man on earth, I wouldn't go out with this guy. So. But I'm.

[Matt Jacobson]

I came out and shook your hand. Come on.

[Lisa Jacobson]

Oh, he was. And he points. Well, I'm kind of busy right now. And stood me up right there in the lobby.

[Matt Jacobson]

It was awful. It really was awful. However, but when I was walking away, I said to myself, you know what? I think I might have done that too fast.

[Lisa Jacobson]

Yeah, you did.

[Matt Jacobson]

I did say that. I think I might have done that too fast.

[Jim Daly]

So you said that out loud to.

[Matt Jacobson]

Myself, no, see, that would have been all the difference.

[Jim Daly]

Knew that.

[Lisa Jacobson]

Actually, a whole year went by. Eight months.

[Matt Jacobson]

Eight months.

[Jim Daly]

Okay, good. So that was the kickoff to this wonderful situation. And then you met again.

[Lisa Jacobson]

And in that time, though, I just.

[Matt Jacobson]

Feel like she went out and bought a wedding dress.

[Lisa Jacobson]

But what I felt like God impressed upon me. And this is for the singles or people that are, you know, I was a little bit older. I was almost 27. I really was impressed upon me that I had written my love story in my mind. And God just showed me. He said, you need to let me write your love story, and you need to have an open hand. And that was really turning point for me to realize, you know what? I need to be just open to what God has, you know, Lisa, you're.

[Jim Daly]

Tapping on something that's so important. It's all those expectations we create about everything.

[Lisa Jacobson]

Yes.

[Jim Daly]

And, man, I have just found in life, when having low expectations, I'm not talking about certain things like job performance and things like that, and, you know, things where performance standards need to be there. But just as your life unfolds, those expectations can be crippling. If you think it's gotta go a certain way, and the Lord's saying, well, it's not gonna go that way.

[Lisa Jacobson]

And really, in so Many ways, it continues on even through your marriage, because, you know, if you write the script for how this is gonna work, you'll be disappointed, probably at some point or another, maybe often.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah.

[Lisa Jacobson]

And being able to say, you know what? I'm gonna be open to what God is gonna write for us.

[Jim Daly]

Well, here's a great example of that, in my opinion. You have it in the two books, the companion books. But on your side, Lysa, in your book, you talked about the importance of cultivating your own faith and not owning the faith of your spouse. That is big. Now, some people may not even see it, that they're pushing their husband or pushing their wife because they want to see a little more fruit. Let's get out there and do some spiritual exercises, because I'm not seeing the fruit I need to see in you today. So describe that calmness that comes when you concentrate on your own heart and really don't own the faith of your spouse.

[Lisa Jacobson]

Well, I think just realizing that there's so much that I can do in my walk that I don't need to spend my time, my energy, worrying about his. You can pray about it. You can be an example and an encourager, but there's really. It's pointless really, to try to live out faith for your spouse.

[Matt Jacobson]

Whichever way it goes, holiness only relates to one person. You can't be holy for somebody else. And your holiness is not predicated on the behavior of another person. God calls you to be holy in the circumstances.

[Jim Daly]

This is really so important because it does bring calmness to your life when you don't own somebody else's activities and decisions. It can be hard in marriage because those impact you the way that they do. But symptomatically, if I were to try to take an assessment, well, am I doing that to my spouse? What are some of the things that give the indication that you're owning the other person's faith journey?

[Matt Jacobson]

Well, when you're pursuing the Lord and you take your eyes off that pursuit and you start turning your attention to the things that the Bible told the other person to do, right? God's letter, God's mail is to the other person. So this relates a lot to what you find in Ephesians 5, where we're very careful to scrutinize what God tells the other spouse to do, right? As opposed to focusing on what God tells us to do. And that's really what it boils down to, is a person seeing the way another person is. And rather than praying and rather than having a heart of love, and engaging with them on the level that I'm really focusing on myself and what God wants to do in me. And if you don't do that and you're just trying to get the other person to change their behavior, then that's the mistake. It's trying to get the other person to live a way that you think that they are supposed to rather than focusing how God's called you to live.

[Jim Daly]

You know, and so often in this life, what the Lord is doing is sometimes 180 degrees from what we are doing as a human being.

[Matt Jacobson]

Right. I think Job thought that.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. So I mean, in that context, what's interesting, we think we're doing the right thing or we're going to extract the right behavior by putting this pressure on. And in reality, we may be creating a detour for God working in our spouse's heart in the direction. And when you back up and back off, oftentimes you begin to see the very fruit that you were hoping to see.

[Matt Jacobson]

Absolutely. The Holy Spirit is actually far better at his job than you are at his job. You know, isn't that the truth? So, yeah, if we just back off sometimes and let God work through our own commitment and walk with God, if we walk in holy, it's really hard to have an argument with a humble person.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, no kidding.

[Matt Jacobson]

You know, so if we really are focusing on how God's called us to walk in holiness, that has a tremendous impact on our spouse.

[Jim Daly]

Well, we could spend the whole time just on that topic. Matt, you also, in your companion book, you talk about husbands needing to understand that love requires sacrifice. I mean, this is another big topic. These are like bombs you could spend an hour or two talking about. But what point are you trying to make there?

[Matt Jacobson]

Well, there's certainly an aspect of marriage that is the romantic love eros side of marriage. And there's a whole book in the Bible that talks a lot about that. And so that's absolutely an aspect of it. But we're also called to love. The Bible says, beloved, love one another. Everyone that loveth is born of God and knows God. And he that loves not does not know God. For God is love. We tend to apply those kinds of scriptures to the other people in the church lobby, you know, but the most important person in life that you will ever have to apply that to is the person that God gave you to be one with. So you look at beloved, let us love one another. You look at that love, and that is that agape love, that self sacrificing, self denying Love that comes without an expectation of return. And so when we talk about God calling us to sacrifice for our spouse, we're talking about God's call to me as a man, as a husband, to love my wife the way God calls me to love other people. And those verses aren't just for the other people out there. They are most specifically for the most important relationship. I'm going to have this side of heaven. And so when we spend time in the Word, our mind begins to change and orient to the things that God wants of me in my marriage. And we stop thinking about our marriage as that which can give me the things that I want and rather what God has called me to do and how God has called me to walk and love and interact with this person.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. Lisa, you had a friend that had to choose to be thankful for her husband during a work trip. Now many wives are probably going, oh, I had that challenge, too. I mean, work trips can be a real downer for marriage because one of the spouses is leaving town probably frequently, and it begins to become a grind for the marriage.

[Lisa Jacobson]

Yeah, I was so glad to share that story because she's a dear friend, and she really struggled with having just negative cycle of thinking with her husband. And she would just start thinking of all the things he wasn't doing and how he wasn't loving her. And we've been talking a lot about this together. And so she said, I went on this trip, and first night, disappointment. He ended up staying in a different spot, and she was with the kids, and. And she said. And then I just had this idea, I'm going to sit down. I'm going to make myself write things I'm thankful for. And she said the first few kind of came a little slowly, but as she got going, she realized, you know, I'm thankful he does a good job providing for us. I'm thankful that he plays with the kids when he gets a chance. And she said it was amazing. So she went to sleep that night with actually joyful thoughts rather than crying herself to sleep, which had been her pattern.

[Jim Daly]

You know, it almost sounds too simple that you can actually think your way to a better marriage. I know, but it is concentrating on the right things and not the wrong things. You know, John 10:10 says, the thief, the enemy, Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy. And that God himself, Jesus, is saying, I come that you might have life and life more abundantly. But that first part, it's not. It can be physical death. It can be a whole host of things. I think Evil expresses itself that way. Personally, I think abortion is that. That the enemy's coming to steal, kill, and destroy. But that's true in to kill a marriage. In fact, someone shared with me that marriage is the representation of God's image on this earth, that he created man and woman to be his image on this earth, and that the two become one flesh. And that every marriage that walks this earth is a stench in the nostrils of Satan. And that's why he attacks it every day.

[Matt Jacobson]

Absolutely.

[Jim Daly]

So in that context, Matt, why is that contentment and respect so vital to cultivate a loving biblical marriage?

[Matt Jacobson]

Well, I think you touched on it in terms of this business of being one, spending time thinking, what does that really mean? And at the core of that oneness is the concept of fellowship. And that's a word that we kind of throw around, you know, a little bit in Christian circles. Well, fellowship, we're having fellowship. We're having donuts and coffee after church. That word, fellowship, is a word that means the participatory interweaving of our lives together. That is an image of peace and unity and commonality of purpose. And so, yeah, Satan hates all of that. And you can't find contentment if you don't discipline your mind and your heart to think in terms that God has spoken relative to your marriage. There is a terrible theology that is based on a very wrong understanding of one single verse in Scripture. And that's at the end of Ephesians, chapter 5. And it says, well, the man needs to love his wife and see that she respect her husband. But if you actually look at that word, it's not the word for respect. So the Bible does not teach that men are to be respected by their wives, but they don't really have to respect their wives. Okay, this is not a biblical understanding. It is not a biblical teaching. I don't want to go into the details of it because it's a really interesting topic relative to that word, but it doesn't mean respect. It's a mistranslation. A man is absolutely, from a biblical perspective, supposed to respect his wife. And the man who is not respecting his wife is in the process of destroying his marriage. Men and women are to respect each other. Husbands are to respect their wives. Their wives are to respect their husbands. Absolutely. But your wife will never be content in your marriage if you don't respect her, if you don't treat her as a person. And all of the teaching of Scripture speaks to this issue of how we're supposed to interact with another person. Those one another verses, beloved, let us love one another, be kind to one another, tenderhearted and forgiving one another. If we do not walk in respect with each other, then we are in the process of destroying our marriage. So it's a big topic. But men, absolutely. You got to respect your wife. The Bible doesn't teach that she has to respect you, but you don't have to respect her.

[Jim Daly]

Lysa, in the book, both of you are very refreshingly open about your situation as you were battling through better understanding marriage and what it does and God's intention for marriage. You mentioned the first fight you and Matt ever had. What happened? Sorry to put this out there, but you wrote about it. What happened and how did you learn the importance of trust through that disagreement?

[Lisa Jacobson]

Yeah, it was our first, I would say first big argument was I came home to the apartment and there was some plane tickets to California on the counter.

[Matt Jacobson]

That's not a problem, is it?

[Lisa Jacobson]

And Matt said, oh, I forgot to tell you, I'm going down to California for graduation.

[Jim Daly]

It wasn't plane tickets, it was plane ticket.

[Lisa Jacobson]

Yes, plane ticket. Yeah, I should say that for one. And I realize this now, but it actually triggered me. It really triggered. And I just. He. Matt had never seen this side of me. I just said, no, you're not going. This is not happening. He said, oh, oh, yes, I am. I just remember. So I think the reason for my reaction was just this triggering of fear of being left. And, you know, again, you don't know at the time because you're just. All you know is you. You just can't see straight. And so we went back and forth and there was. We were not making any progress in this conversation. And then he went into the bedroom and disappeared for a long time. I thought, oh, he's packing his suitcase, he's leaving. I just, I don't. I had quite an imagination, apparently, but he was in there for so long and I couldn't stand any longer. So I opened the door real quietly to peek in and see what he was doing. And he was on his knees by the bed and just praying about it. And I had never seen such a thing. I had never heard of this idea of you get an argument and you can take it before the Lord. Like, I just. This was mind blowing to me, even though I'd been a Christian for many years. And I just. It was so diffusing because I just went and kneeled next to him and I thought, okay, however, this argument's gonna end, it almost didn't matter because we were bringing it before the Lord.

[John Fuller]

Yeah.

[Matt Jacobson]

And the nice thing about it is our marriage has been perfect ever since.

[Jim Daly]

That's what's so awesome.

[Matt Jacobson]

Yeah. Right.

[Jim Daly]

Hey, let me ask you. You mentioned in your companion book the mental battles, emotional battles that we fight within our marriages, et cetera. Pretty tangible, you know that, you know, when something triggers you, it was great that you had that aware, Lysa, that you felt that and went, wow, where's that coming from? Because that's an important question to ask ourselves. But it's harder sometimes to see the spiritual battle of what's going on, what the enemy's doing, what our own flesh is doing to rip your marriage apart. Speak to the recognition of those elements within marriage that are a little more unseen.

[Matt Jacobson]

Well, absolutely. Well, I think of it in these terms. You know, if you see the soldier and let's say he's in Ukraine, well, Ukraine's not a great place for a sunshine. Let's relocate back to Iraq. Right. That's a great place for a suntan.

[Jim Daly]

Okay.

[Matt Jacobson]

But it's a war zone. So if the soldier's taken off his pack and taking the clip out of his rifle and he is just relaxing, slathering on some tan lotion, you're going, that's a fool. Okay. And he's not going to last too long. Well, God has told us in his Word that the context of our existence is being surrounded by. By spiritual enemies. This is the message that we find in Ephesians. We're surrounded by spiritual enemies. And so if that's true, then what should we do? We don't have to ask. We have to read the Word. That's why I like to say, are you going to be a biblical Christian? Then read the Word. What does it say in the space of three verses in Ephesians 6? There it says, get dressed. Get dressed. Yes. It says, put on the full armor of God. Get dressed. Now, that's interesting, because I think we want God to dress us. One guy said to me, I was just praying, lord, help me be strong. And the Lord's going, have you put your armor on yet? Because we are in a spiritual battle. That is the context for the Christian's life.

[Jim Daly]

Well, you're saying it requires preparation.

[Matt Jacobson]

It requires being purposeful and preparing. And we just. It's so easy because of all the noise in life, just to show up on game day. And, okay, we're going into another day, and we haven't been in the Word. We haven't listened to what the Lord said. We haven't Prayed. We haven't yielded our heart to the Lord. And yet the Bible says the context of your existence is spiritual warfare. And God says, get dressed, put on the armor. And I think the most important piece, that armor is the sword, right? What's the sword? The Bible says the sword of the spirit is the word of God. And that's what Jesus knew when he was tempted. He didn't take Satan on without the sword. He said, it is written. When Satan tempted him. Remember that time he said, it is written. It is written. It is written. He took the sword of the spirit, the word of God, and he stuck it in the guts of Satan's arguments and, you know, pulled it from side to side. So I'm a little graphic there. But that's the thing about our sword. We have to know how to use it. And God says, get dressed, pick up your sword, get into the word, read it. You are in a spiritual battle, so recognize that as the context of your existence.

[Jim Daly]

I like that. And before we run out of time, I did want to. We'll end on a little higher note. Moving from that spiritual battle to laughter in marriage and the importance of laughter in marriage. I understand that Jean and I enjoy laughing. It is part of our relationship. So speak to the importance of a sense of humor in marriage.

[Lisa Jacobson]

You know, it's true. It's kind of almost like a secret sauce to be able to laugh in your marriage. And there are times where we're going through heavy things or difficult things, but we will almost always end the night laughing.

[Matt Jacobson]

Sometimes it's hard for you to get into bed without some trauma just before that.

[Lisa Jacobson]

He's always got some trap set. For me, it's just. It's really ridiculous. And I'm sure all my friends know.

[Matt Jacobson]

It is kind of goofy. I mean, we are goofy. There's no question.

[Lisa Jacobson]

I love pillows on our bed. I have all these pillows just arranged just so. And he can't stand the pillows, but he'll get into bed. And then I'm always the last one to get into bed because I've always got this to do and that to do. And. Oh, I gotta remember that.

[Jim Daly]

Where does he chuck these pillows at me?

[Lisa Jacobson]

It's like one of those.

[John Fuller]

Is it the signal?

[Lisa Jacobson]

Those games at the fair, you know, and he just. All the way across.

[Matt Jacobson]

Not from the same place at the same time, all the time. I mean, I mix it up a little bit.

[Jim Daly]

Matt, I think you need to hide the pillows. That'd be my secret. Put them in the garage.

[Matt Jacobson]

That's a good idea.

[Lisa Jacobson]

Someone's gonna like this.

[Matt Jacobson]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

Hide them up in the rafters somewhere.

[John Fuller]

And then get back to us and let us know.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. How'd that go? Let me at the very end here. Cause we're out of time. But let's come back next time and keep the discussion going. We'll cover more and I'll mention that in a minute. But for that couple that feels like they've lost touch with. I mean, they're listening to this, or maybe one of the spouses is listening, going, wow, okay, we're in that desperate place. What is something they can begin to think about to reignite that relationship in that direction?

[Matt Jacobson]

Well, here's the thing.

[Jim Daly]

Direction.

[Matt Jacobson]

If you were to talk to them individually and say, what is it that you're interested for your marriage? And turn to the other spouse and say, what do you want in your marriage? They're going to say the same things. They want a marriage that's close, loving, kind, enjoyable, intimate. Just remember, your spouse is not your enemy. Satan is at work. He's the enemy. He's the destroyer. He's the one that wants to prevent you from the things that you both want. The fact is, is that you're standing on this little canyon wall and you look down and it's the abyss. It goes forever. But you're really just about a foot apart, and you could step right across that. The truth is, there's hope for your marriage. And you both want the same things, and God wants the same things for you. He's on your side. So just remember who the real. And there is hope.

[Jim Daly]

Well, thanks for being with us, and we'll come back next time and we'll keep the discussion going. Can we do it?

[Matt Jacobson]

Absolutely.

[Jim Daly]

Okay, good. Let's do that. And I hope you hear the heart that we have for you in your marriage. Don't suffer in a bad marriage. God doesn't want you to be in that place of suffering. He doesn't want you to leave the marriage, but he wants you to have a good marriage. And you both have to work on that together. I think that's the point of today's program and these two companion books. What a great way to get started. Devotional books. Loving wife. Well, loving your husband. Well, Matt and Lisa have poured their thought, their experience, their theological understandings into that. You've heard a part of that today. Make a donation to Focus for any amount, and we'll send these two as our way of saying thank you.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. Donate generously and we'll send those books to you. And let me just say if Focus on the Family has been of help to you or to a family member or a friend, please consider supporting the ministry with a financial gift or a monthly pledge. There's something called a summer slump, and it's pretty real. People earn different patterns during the summer and giving tends to kind of fall off during this time of year. We really need to hear from you today, so please continue to support us or begin supporting Focus on the Family so we can help marriages and families thrive in Christ. One of the amazing resources we have for you is our free online marriage assessment, which about a million people have taken. And it's five, 10, maybe 15 minutes of your time. And it's going to give you some key insights into your marriage, about things you're doing well and maybe an area or two of improvement. You can access this free assessment on our website and the link is in the show notes. On behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we continue the conversation with the Jacobsons and once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

[Focus on the Family Representative]

If the fights with your spouse have become unbearable, if you feel like you can't take it anymore, there's still hope. Hope Restored Marriage Intensives have helped thousands of couples like yours. Our biblically based counseling will help you find the right root of your problems and face them together. Call us at 1-866-875-2915. We'll talk with you, pray with you, and help you find out which program will work best. That's 1-866-875-2915.