← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Practical Advice for Those Getting Ready to Wed (Part 2 of 2)
00:26:44
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- [00:02]
Erin Smalley
Satan knows the power of a marriage. I mean, it's two individuals becoming one. And if they're serving God and his Holy Spirit is part of that, I mean, that's a powerful force. And the enemy knows what we are capable of when we are in healthy, sustaining marriages that he's afraid of.
- [00:19]
John Fuller
That a really important perspective on marriage, isn't it? That's Erin Smalley, and she and her husband, Dr. Greg Smalley, want to help young couples particularly become a powerful force for good in God's kingdom. Welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, and we're featuring part two of A Conversation with the Smalleys. And we're so glad you could join us.
- [00:40]
Jim Daly
Last time we heard some great advice and encouragement based on a wonderful book that Greg and Aaron have written called ready to 12 ways to start a Marriage youe'll Love. And I really like that title that says it all. And if you missed the program last time, contact us to get an audio copy or check out the previous episode on YouTube or, or better yet, get our app so you can listen to the great content whenever and wherever you want to. And let me just say, this conversation with Greg and Erin is relevant for the parents of young adults, too. John, you and I both are living in that space where our kids are looking at serious relationships, and you're thinking, okay, is this the one? But we'll see. And then obviously you've had that experience where they come home and say, hey, I think I've met the person I'm going to marry. We haven't hit that quite yet, but it's around the corner.
- [01:30]
John Fuller
Yeah. And this is really solid content. For those who are preparing for marriage and those of us who have been married for a long time, the principles apply. Get a copy of Greg and Aaron's book Ready to Wed and find out more about all the resources Focus on the Family has to strengthen your marriage when you stop by the show notes for today's episode. All right, Jim, here's how you picked up the conversation with Greg and Aaron Smalley on today's episode of Focus on the Family.
- [01:59]
Greg Smalley
Greg and Aaron, the conversation last time was really fascinating. We talked about God's design for marriage.
- [02:04]
Jim Daly
And the need for commitment.
- [02:06]
Greg Smalley
And that always brings up the question of divorce. In Matthew, Jesus explains that divorce is the result of our hard hearts. That's tough, but it's what he said. You guys often talk about that, and your book gives specific reasons why that happens.
- [02:22]
Jim Daly
Why do people's hearts grow harder toward.
- [02:25]
Greg Smalley
Each Other such a fascinating verse, Matthew 19:8, where Jesus is saying, in the beginning of your relationship, you were open, your hearts were wide open, you had love towards each other. But then something happens that ultimately creates a hardness of the heart. And when we work with premarital couples, there are two things specifically that we're trying to help them to understand. First of all is that couples allow small little relationship germs to. To invade their marriage. That's first and foremost. There are some things that start happening.
- [03:05]
Very small example of what that can be.
- [03:07]
Yeah. Out of song of Solomon's 2:15 love, this verse where it says, catch all the foxes, those little foxes, before they ruin the vineyard of love. These little, small, little foxes are things like you talked about. Selfishness, poorly managed conflict, unrealistic expectations in laws, verbal attacks. Can be a large fox at times. But in other words, sometimes couples sort of guard their relationship from the big things. But often what kills a marriage in terms of ultimately the hardening of heart are these little small things. Like when Erin does something and hurts me or I hurt her and we just ignore it, so we just move on. Or I'm not serving her, I'm not sacrificing for her like you talked about in the beginning. It's these small little things that tend to really destroy marriages because it hardens hearts over time.
- [04:04]
Erin Smalley
And then ultimately what ends up happening is that we stop investing in this relationship. So where the little foxes are coming. But then our hearts start to close and, you know, eventually they can harden. And thus we stop taking care of this marriage relationship and investing in it and really being intentional around that.
- [04:23]
Greg Smalley
Let me pursue that a little bit because I think in some ways what you're saying is you emotionally detach, you pull in you, you're no longer engaged or investing in the relationship. That's a dangerous place to be, isn't it?
- [04:36]
Erin Smalley
Well, it is because your heart begins to grow cold toward each other and thus you're not willing to sacrifice. You're not willing to sit down and have a heart to heart conversation. You know, it's nearly impossible because your heart's not in the game.
- [04:49]
Greg Smalley
Right. So for a young couple who is looking to get married, how do you teach them to think of the little foxes, to be mindful of these little things?
- [04:59]
Yeah. I think first of all, we need to teach our young couples that love is not self sustaining. That is such a huge myth.
- [05:08]
But at that age, it's almost unbelievable. You say that and it bounces off of me like I've got a love Shield around me.
- [05:14]
Erin Smalley
Ping.
- [05:15]
Greg Smalley
Because it doesn't make sense. I'm so infatuated. I'm so in love with my fiance or mom.
- [05:20]
John Fuller
You don't know how deep love is.
- [05:21]
Greg Smalley
Yeah, they just don't have a good relationship like we have, even though they're 40 and we're 20.
- [05:27]
I think part of the message that we're trying to teach our kids is that love is not self sustaining. We have to constantly be investing in doing things proactively to keep our marriage strong. You can't put the marriage like you can a car on autopilot, on cruise control. There is none of that. And that's one of those myths and fallacies out there about marriage, that somehow we can just be together and feel in love and then do all these other things. Life and work and kids and church and the list goes on and on. And then somewhere along the line, we all of a sudden start drifting apart and there's a slow fade. And all of a sudden our love grows cold and our hearts harden and that's the death of a marriage.
- [06:12]
Greg and Aaron, you talk in your book Ready to wed about 12 ways to have a great marriage. So these are great tools for young people who again, are engaged or thinking about it. Let's hit some of those 12. We're not going to cover them all. Let's post it on the website, John, so people can get a look at them. But this is what you're delving into in the book. Why don't you go ahead and give us the ones that you feel are most important and what's cool about the.
- [06:37]
Book, how we divided it out. It's very intentional. The two big, broad messages that one, you need to invest in your marriage proactively every day, but then you have to know how to work through problems when they come either through conflict or externally from something else. So those are the two big things, if you learn nothing else.
- [06:58]
How to invest and how to resolve conflict.
- [07:00]
Exactly. In terms of the investing part, you.
- [07:03]
Erin Smalley
Know, one of the things in this book that's different than a lot of other premarital books is that we really focus on what does leaving and cleaving really mean? You know, what does that mean? To leave our former life and then to cleave to our new spouse. When you're leaving your former life, that means that you're leaving your singleness. You're leaving this adolescent kind of state. Our friend Ted Cunningham talks about that so often. Young people that they'll get stuck in the state of adolescence. But we're leaving that behind when we're stepping into a marriage relationship, we're taking a step into adulthood and that we're going to be adults in this marriage relationship.
- [07:45]
Greg Smalley
So you have to prepare as that young person to make that step, though.
- [07:48]
Erin Smalley
Absolutely. There's so much that can be done before you actually say I do to prepare to have a healthy relationship. So many different ways of looking at how are we going to do this. We're planning how this relationship is going to play out in the months to come.
- [08:03]
Greg Smalley
In that regard, is the leaving and cleaving attacking or going after that selfish aspect? I'm thinking of people I know that are in their 20s or even 30s that have been married eight, 10 years and he's still caught up in video games. He's still acting like a 16 year old and it's driving mostly wives crazy because they're not. It's like the argument is, you're not growing up, grow up, Help me.
- [08:27]
Erin Smalley
I can remember our first year of marriage living at Denver Seminary, literally taking Greg's Nintendo and hiding it in the laundry basket underneath the laundry she hid it from.
- [08:37]
Greg Smalley
Did he find it?
- [08:38]
Erin Smalley
He did. He's like, what's this doing in there?
- [08:40]
Jim Daly
I'm like, it was a small apartment.
- [08:43]
Greg Smalley
So inevitably I was gonna find it.
- [08:45]
Erin Smalley
Yeah, there wasn't anything.
- [08:45]
Greg Smalley
But you can relate to that. That's my point. And it is something you have to do with some forethought with, you know, thinking it through. What am I really stepping out of and into?
- [08:55]
You know, for me, here's what rocked my world when I read the study. Because I wish that I had known this before we got married and when we were newly married. The studies say that it takes at least nine to 14 years for two individuals to stop thinking about themselves as individuals and to start thinking about themselves as one. Think about that. That is almost a decade and a half. Nine to 14 years to go from me, me, me, single lifestyle, thinking about me. Plus you add in for young couples. I mean, as a guy, I always tell women who are getting married, that man, you got to give him a lot of grace. I think for a guy, it takes us into our 30s, we're a little slower before we really start to grow and mature in a way that is best for our relationship. It just takes a long time. That needs to be our expectation going in this whole leave and is God talks about leaving mom and dad, cleaving to our spouse so that we become one. Just understand that takes about a decade. You're going to have to Give each other a whole lot of grace, a whole lot of time to do that. Yeah.
- [10:03]
And it's very reasonable, and I think it's a good place to start. That's the beginning point. When you look down the list, I want to grab one which is honoring each other. Because I think in those early years when difficulties come, you know, he's squeezing the toothpaste in the wrong spot. I mean, it sounds so silly. Why does that even matter? But Gene and I have a constant.
- [10:21]
Jim Daly
And we've been married 28 years.
- [10:22]
John Fuller
Still happens in our lives, too. For some reason, she.
- [10:24]
Greg Smalley
She doesn't put the cap on the toothpaste. It dries.
- [10:26]
Jim Daly
I'm the one hunting down the cap.
- [10:27]
Greg Smalley
On the counter going, well, that's why.
- [10:29]
Erin Smalley
You gotta get the one that it's attached and you just flip it down. I mean, both your own toothpaste.
- [10:33]
Greg Smalley
That's how we solve it.
- [10:34]
Erin Smalley
That's how we did it. Yeah.
- [10:35]
Jim Daly
You know, it's not gonna lead to.
- [10:36]
Greg Smalley
A family crisis other than a little irritation. But it's those kinds of things, small foxes you gotta think about and you gotta be talking through. And I don't mean to, you know, diminish serious issues, but honoring each other. Talk about how we do that.
- [10:51]
Erin Smalley
You know, so often, especially as wives, we come into marriage thinking, you know, we can just change just this little thing about him and, you know, influence him in this way.
- [11:00]
Greg Smalley
He's a project.
- [11:01]
Erin Smalley
That's right. But, you know, unfortunately, it really doesn't work, because as soon as he starts feeling that, what is he going to do? He's going to resist that. Because how many of us like to say, you know, oh, if you just did it just like this. Instead. Instead, you know, and often it's not spoken. It's these little things that we do to manipulate the relationship. But what about how God made him? I'm not saying that, you know, you can just go, oh, this is just how God made me. But really recognizing that we're both bringing differences into this relationship and that there are gifts to this relationship and seeing that it brings a beautiful balance.
- [11:34]
Greg Smalley
I love how God, when he created man and woman, stepped back and said, this is good. I mean, the way that God made us so different in personality and gender differences, that's a good thing. And yet when we get frustrated, like by how we do the toothpaste or the toilet paper or the list goes on and on, remember those differences are the gift. That's a good thing. And we need to value those things now. We need to learn how do we talk through those when they're creating challenges for us? But I think it always has to start from, I want to honor my wife. I want to cherish those differences. I want to value who she is. And the best way that I've learned to do this, literally, is I have a list of all these things that I love about Erin. These are my favorite things about Erin. And I look at that periodically just to be reminded, you know what? Yeah, she's pretty amazing now. She frustrates me at times. She drives me nuts other times, so do I. I drive her crazy.
- [12:40]
Erin Smalley
Would you like to share some of those right now?
- [12:43]
Jim Daly
I please do.
- [12:45]
Greg Smalley
But I mean, that's life, that we will irritate each other. But don't ever let those differences become things you see as negative.
- [12:53]
John Fuller
And, you know, as we're talking, Jim, yesterday I mentioned that we have four young adults in my family, and one of them has a relationship going. And I'm thinking, I know that you're able to spend time, talk right now. And this is One of the 12 is communication. I know that you can do that right now. But when you get married, stuff happens and you can't quite spend hours thinking about and talking with your spouse. How do you foster good communication with a couple that is perhaps working and then maybe even kids come along?
- [13:26]
Greg Smalley
One of the things that I saw the other day that again blew my mind is that the average couple spends maybe an hour a week kind of in these kind of proactive talking, spending time together. But the average couple who's involved in an affair spends 15 hours a week in those kinds of activities. As much as it's easy to say, we're just so busy and don't have the time, man, couples are finding the time. I want to pursue her in that same way and never go, well, I just don't have time or it's so busy. The best thing that I can do as far as communication is to my attitude is that I want to know her and I want to be known by her. I want her to know me. So I want to spend time asking her questions, getting to know her and keep updated and current, but also need to be willing to be known to share what's going on in my life.
- [14:21]
Greg, when I hear that, it sounds really good, but it sounds exhausting to a lot of men to ask those kind of questions. Are we just being lazy?
- [14:32]
We're not being lazy. I just think we get so busy. There's so many other things that are taking our time. And I think that so many people buy into that love is self sustaining that I don't really have to do much for us to be okay. That we can put the marriage on autopilot cruise control. It's just. That's not.
- [14:50]
That's a good man answer. Let me ask Aaron.
- [14:51]
Jim Daly
Aaron, are we being lazy?
- [14:53]
Erin Smalley
You know what? It's not lazy. I agree with Greg on that, that it's not being lazy. It's that often we just assum. That everything's going to be okay. You know, I.
- [15:03]
Greg Smalley
That's true.
- [15:03]
Erin Smalley
I've got to take care of the kids because they have these needs that are, you know, raging right in front of me. They're hungry, they're thirsty, you know, they've got to go to practice. But it's really changed.
- [15:13]
Greg Smalley
Whatever.
- [15:14]
Well, let me say this with all seriousness. Right now, the divorces that are occurring are catching a lot of husbands by surprise. They're kind of in the autopilot mode, you know, of course, this was forever. I told you I loved you at the altar. Yes. We've got kids, I've got my work. I thought we loved it. Other. What are you doing? Is that a fair statement? I mean, women are really starving and husbands aren't seeing it or getting it.
- [15:41]
Erin Smalley
Because as women we want to connect at that heart level. We want to connect through conversation, through emotional connection. And when there's not the intentional mindset that we have to take care of this relationship from both spouses because Greg can have that attitude that I told you I loved you, you know, we're committed for a lifetime. I don't need to do anything else. But as women prioritizing this relationship above the kids, above girlfriends, above all these other things that steal our time.
- [16:12]
Greg Smalley
Yeah, I'm watching cell phones. And just in this day and age, just how readily available the texting, the emails, the Facebook, whatever, I mean, I'm watching that happen for a lot of women who are investing a tremendous amount of time in that. I think, guys, we can compartmentalize our life and so we can get involved in work and just providing. And yet I think for both that we need to step back and realize that marriage will never be sustained off of a few minutes here and there of meaningful interaction.
- [16:44]
And to John's point about developing positive communication, one of your 12 ways to have a great marriage. If you were talking to little Jimmy when I was 24 and a half and Jean and I had met and you were doing our premarital counseling, how would you teach a rather self absorbed young man who doesn't understand women at all, to really do a better job.
- [17:05]
At that, I would point out what you're doing right now that she loves. And I guarantee you that little Jimmy is spending a whole lot of time asking questions, pursuing Jean, finding out about what she loves, likes, dislikes, as you're building a new relationship. And I would beg you to never lose that. I think curiosity is one of the best sustainers of love. When I have an attitude that one lifetime isn't long enough for me to really get to know her, that I want to stay current and updated, then I would show you exactly how to do that. And that's literally by just get great at asking questions. As you are married, take moments when you're driving in the car, take moments when you're out on a date and just say, hey, update me. What's going on in your life? Keep me current. We both are always changing. And if we invest in our relationship with that attitude of going, jim, look what you're doing right now, you were doing everything you can to know her. Don't ever lose that. And here's why.
- [18:07]
The other thing is just that effort. I can remember when we were dating, I lived in San Diego, she was in Orange county, it was about a 90 minute drive. She was working at a vet clinic and would work the late night shift. And so occasionally I'd drive up there and deliver dinner to her. So when you look at what you would do in courtship to prove I'm interested, I mean, driving 90 miles to bring your girlfriend dinner and then you get married and you're going, I don't.
- [18:33]
Jim Daly
Want to pick up the those clothes. I mean, it's really different, isn't it? What happened to that 90 mile drive?
- [18:39]
Erin Smalley
You know, so often what we don't address then is that what's going on with our heart. When he starts frustrating me, when he starts disappointing me because he's not, you know, making the effort he used to make, then, you know, I'm less likely to do that as well. And our hearts start to close off and it goes back to, you know, when our heart starts closing off, we're not willing to make that extra effort and go the extra mile and it impacts the relationship.
- [19:04]
Greg Smalley
But let me ask you this. As we're wrapping up, there's two things I want to touch on. One is the importance of premarital counseling.
- [19:11]
Jim Daly
You've done research, you've looked at research.
- [19:14]
Greg Smalley
That suggests the powerful importance of premarital counseling. Talk a bit about that.
- [19:20]
Erin Smalley
You know, it is so clear. Again, it's research that is very statistically found that 80% of couples who receive premarital counseling stay together.
- [19:29]
Greg Smalley
80%. 80% talk about what kind of premarital counseling that is. Is that an hour? Is that. Is it 100 hours?
- [19:36]
Erin Smalley
What we really say is 8 to 10 quality hours of really delving into all the, you know, the 12 different areas in Ready to Wed, you know, delving into all of those and really looking at what are we bringing, what is our plan? How are we going to do this? What do we want it to even look like? You know, and discussing all the issues and the challenges that we might face. And it's an exciting time to really connect with one another, maybe with a therapist, a pastor, with a mentor couple who can walk with you as you engage in this. Such an exciting time of life.
- [20:11]
Greg Smalley
Yeah, Jean and I did that there. Probably. I'm thinking back, there are probably eight or nine couples in this class that we did. It was called Becoming One by Jerry and Donna Lawson in San Diego. And what was really fascinating is, like, three of the couples got up after the first or second session, and Jean and I are looking at each other like, oh, my goodness. So they just walked out. Well, walked out in a sense that they're not ready to be married. They gave the explanation and the point of it. It was success. It scared us a little bit, like, uh, oh, are we hiding anything? What do we need to. But six of the nine couples continued on, but I think three of the couples actually decided it wasn't time. And that's a good decision, isn't it?
- [20:50]
Erin Smalley
Yeah, absolutely. If, you know, why would you enter into this marriage relationship that's for a lifetime, if really you're not ready and it's okay to not be ready. You want to evaluate, is this the person that I want to spend the rest of my life with?
- [21:05]
Greg Smalley
Let's. The second point I want to make, let's end on the stresses and the crises that come in marriage. And hopefully you're equipped to take care of that. Talk about that. What's the normal stuff that can really bring a marriage down?
- [21:20]
There's two main things. There's going to be internal stressors, and we just say that's the conflict. That's the dealing with each other and figuring out who's doing what and how do we blend our differences? So there's the internal part, but then there's also external things that are going to hit a marriage. We have a couple friend that right as they were about to get married, his father died. So they walked into their brand new marriage. And the story is in the book, they walked into their brand new marriage having to deal with the death of his dad and comforting his mom. And they actually ended up moving into the mom mom's basement just to be there to care for her. We know couples. One of our seminars, a couple, engaged couple, came up and they're just glowing and typical, you know, idealistic. And this is so amazing. But he said that I have been given a diagnosis of an untreatable type of cancer. So we're knowing we are going to get married and my life will be over very shortly. External stressors all these things and that can tear at this brand new relationship because we're not formed. Remember 9 to 14 years are really settled into who we are and have that strength. And so what we're trying to do is to share with a couple. There are going to be both things. Internally. You're going to have to deal with conflict, but also things are going to come at you. Loss of job, financial difficulties, life. Life will come at you. It's how you then do that together. That's the point. And Aaron and I dealt with a lot of these things and by God's grace, we did these things together and we had to learn. And yet the cool part is that God promises that when we face trials that he will give us things. We get treasures from the trials that we face. We're always trying to help a couple who's going through a big trial in their marriage that not only will sticking it out cause you to be stronger because now you're battle tested, but man, God is going to give you some amazing things and you need to grab hold of those and do what we call treasure hunting. Find those things well.
- [23:27]
And this is so important as we wrap up, you think about it, our marriages are a witness to the world. Now, so often I've sat down with people who oppose the Christian worldview and one of the things they'll say to me flat out is, you haven't done so well with marriage in the Christian community. Why not let us try? And this is in conversations with homosexual activists. And you know what? All I can say in that environment is, you're right, I'm not going to dodge it. But not living it well doesn't mean that God's word is not true. And that's the best way I can respond to that. We have got to live this better so that people actually look at us and say they live what they say they believe. And I guess I do mean that. As a helpful, constructive criticism. We have got to do the job. And by doing the job job, it's what we've talked about these last two days. Premarital counseling for those young couples who are looking to get married. Make sure you get it done. Parents who encourage them to learn communication. The 12 things you can do to have a great marriage. Your book Ready to Wed. We are going full throttle at Focus on the Family through Greg and Aaron's leadership to help prepare couples to have that lifelong marriage that 93% of people say they want. Let's make it happen in the Christian community. And thank you so much for being with us.
- [24:47]
Thank you.
- [24:48]
Erin Smalley
Thank you.
- [24:51]
Greg Smalley
Well, that was a helpful conversation with.
- [24:53]
Jim Daly
The Smalleys these past two days.
- [24:55]
Greg Smalley
And I hope our listeners will follow up about getting a copy of their.
- [24:59]
Jim Daly
Great book, ready to 12 Ways to Start a Marriage youe'll love. Single adults and engaged couples really need to read this. Probably parents too.
- [25:09]
Greg Smalley
It helps us shape some of the.
- [25:11]
Jim Daly
Things we may not be doing very well or forgot to do. Well, if you have a young adult in your family who's leaning in that direction toward marriage someday soon, man, this is the moment. Why not get them started out with the right wonderful advice and insights that Greg and Erin and the others in this terrific curriculum provide. We'd like to put a copy of Ready to Wed into your hands when you make a monthly pledge to focus on the family. That kind of ongoing commitment, commitment really helps sustain our efforts to strengthen and rescue marriages. I mean, you can buy it for your church library as an example. We know from our research that we've helped more than 70,000 single adults over the past 12 months, just the past 12 months, helping them to grow personally and spiritually. That's the kind of foundation they're going to need to have a healthy marriage or successful life, no matter what path they take in the future.
- [26:06]
John Fuller
Yeah, and your monthly pledge makes such a big difference. Donate today and help us continue to impact couples literally around the world. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word family, 800-232-6459. Or you can donate and get the book when you click the link in the show notes. Thanks for listening to FOCUS on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller. And inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [26:44]
Unknown
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