← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
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- [00:02]
Dave Willis
Be kind and compassionate to one another, it says in Ephesians. Be tender hearted toward one another. And what that means practically is be your loved one's biggest encourager, not their biggest critic. And if we'll just choose to lead with encouragement and always speak the truth through that lens of encouragement, then we'll be on the right track.
- [00:18]
Jim Daly
Dave Willis joins us today on FOCUS ON THE FAMILY with Jim Daly and I'm John Fuller.
- [00:23]
John Fuller
Well, I'm sure you're familiar with the verse in the New Testament of the Bible about the way of love. It's 1 Corinthians 13, 4, 8. You'll know it when I say it here. Love is patient and kind. Love does not envy or boast. It's not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way. It is not irritable or resentful. It does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends, man. That is what we believe here at FOCUS on THE Family. We want to help you have the best relationships you can have, whether that is in courtship or marriage, with your children, in your friendships and especially in your relationship with the Lord. So today we want to explore what love truly looks like and help you learn how to build purposeful and intentional relationships with those around you, emulating the love of Christ.
- [01:18]
Jim Daly
And as I said, Dave Willis is with us. He's a former pastor, a speaker, an author, and a relationship coach. He's married to Ashley, and they've been on the broadcast here before. They have four boys. And Dave has a great book called the Seven Laws of Essential Principles for Building Stronger Relationships. We have that here at the ministry. Look for details in the show notes.
- [01:40]
John Fuller
Dave, I just want to say I love you, brother. Welcome to the program.
- [01:43]
Dave Willis
I love you guys. Man, I was having so much fun, I almost forgot we were recording.
- [01:48]
John Fuller
You were lost in love there.
- [01:49]
Dave Willis
I was. I just love hanging out with you fellas.
- [01:51]
John Fuller
So let's go there. I mean, we think we know the definition of love. What is love truly?
- [01:56]
Dave Willis
Well, in its most basic form, love is commitment. You know, I get into broader definitions in the book, but I think that one of the biggest distinctions between our culture's definition of love and God's is our culture looks at love as a feeling, a feeling you have for a while, a feeling you can fall in or out of. But every time we see love in scripture, it's something that's rooted in action. It's rooted in selflessness. It's rooted in commitment. And Jesus shows us that kind of love and what he has done for us and then calls us to show that kind of love for each other. And if we'll root our relationships in that kind of love, it will take all of our relationships to a new level.
- [02:29]
John Fuller
Well, sometimes we so often complicate things. And the older I get and the more I read the Word and walk with the Lord, I think what I hear him whispering is, it's not that complex. Just simplify it, Jim. Don't overthink it. In fact, you went on a mission strip, I think, to Guatemala, to an orphanage. There you saw a demonstration of love. What happened? What caught your attention?
- [02:53]
Dave Willis
Yeah, I was at a really, just a world changing place for me. It's an orphanage called Casa Shalom, which means House of Peace. And this, this orphanage serves about 100 kids at a time in a place where, you know, the government run orphanages, there's no foster care system. And the government run orphanages really have a lot of corruption. Some of these kids have been trafficked into sex slavery from the people that should have been protecting them. So the private run orphanages, the Christian ones like Cassius Shalom, are really just doing a world changing work. And the kids are so full of joy in life. They've been through so much. But most of these kids are running and playing and joyful and it's just a beautiful picture of God's healing and redemption. But on my first visit there, Josh and Jessica Hanson, who are a couple who run the place, Josh was walking us around and he knew the story of every kid. You know, that's Emilio, you know, we found him, he was eaten out of a dumpster. And we were able to bring him here. And that's Maria. And her parents were killed by drug cartel people. And all these kids had a heartbreaking story. And then this teenage girl ran up to him and just gave him the biggest hug. And she was so full of joy in life. And she just hugged him and then went off with some of the other girls to play. And he got tears in his eyes and he says, that's Margarita. And you know, her story is heartbreaking. She had been abused in the worst kinds of way by her dad. And then she was taken out of that home, put in the home of an aunt and uncle. Her uncle abused her in the same unspeakable kind of ways. So by the time she got here, she was just broken and she didn't trust anyone and with good reason because everyone that should have ever protected her, had abused her. And so we just did our best to love her. This is a place where we just want to love, and we believe in God's healing coming through real love. And so we served her. We loved her. We tried to make her feel safe every way that we could. But weeks went by, months went by without her barely speaking to any of us. And we just kept loving and kept praying and kept letting her know that she's part of the family here. And then one night, out of the blue, you know, we're sitting out on the hillside, and it's the most beautiful setting. And there's off in the distance, you can see a volcano that's still active. You can just see so much beauty there. Naturally, in Guatemala, the little boys are playing soccer, the girls are jumping, roping. And Margarita comes, and she sits right next to Josh and Jessica, who are sitting on the hillside looking at these kids. And she gets right next to him, and she puts her head on his shoulder, and he just can't believe what's happening. He just kind of holds his breath. And then she speaks to him, and in Spanish, she says, you know, when I came here, I didn't know. I didn't know what it meant to feel safe, but I feel safe here. And she said, and I also didn't know what love was or if it was even real. She said, but I know that God loves me, and I know that you love me. And then she got up and went off and just started playing. And he said, from that moment on, she's been a different kid. And he. It was such a touching and profound moment for them. And for me, just to hear the story, I'm, like, in tears. Like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing, because it is a picture of what love can do.
- [05:47]
John Fuller
Well, it's redemption, too. Your mom was a hospice nurse, and as a boy, you used to go with her. I find that a little unsettling. A lot of dying people. Yeah, it sounds a little.
- [06:00]
Dave Willis
It sounds a little morbid. Like, should social services have come and taken me, I wouldn't go that far.
- [06:06]
John Fuller
But for me, that just was unusual. But you. It was extremely positive.
- [06:12]
Dave Willis
It was. I did tease mom about it. Like, mom, you know, it's freaking Mom. It's weird, like, for me to be hanging out with dying people.
- [06:18]
John Fuller
But what did it do that really brought you a different perspective?
- [06:21]
Dave Willis
I'm so thankful for that experience. And, mom, if you're listening, I love you. You're the most loving person on earth. She really Is which made her a great hospice nurse, showing care and compassion to people who are dying. And she'd make house calls and be on call. And if I was riding around with her, then I would just go with her and I would hang out. And to me, it just felt so normal. I didn't realize till later that was a pretty.
- [06:40]
John Fuller
How old are you at this time?
- [06:42]
Dave Willis
I guess I would have been from probably age like 9 to 12 in this window.
- [06:48]
John Fuller
So you were cognizant of what was going on?
- [06:50]
Dave Willis
Yeah, I knew what was going on. I knew that these people were dying, and they knew they were dying. And it led to some really interesting conversations. And it shaped my worldview in a lot of ways that I didn't understand fully till later that when somebody's dying, what is important to them comes into laser focus. Right. What matters to someone at the end of their life just really is in focus. And so they would talk to me about their life, about their regrets, about their joys. And what I learned in those moments is that every significant joy a person has at the end of their life is rooted in a relationship. Relationship with God, relationship with their loved ones. And every significant regret a person has at the end of their life is also rooted in relationships. A time where they failed someone they've loved, or they. They didn't give forgiveness or seek forgiveness when they needed to, or they didn't prioritize God until the end of their life. And I'm so thankful that I heard that from people. You know, I never heard people say, if only my golf score would have been better, if only I'd have made more money. You know, things that we get so worked up about. And really, at the end, on your deathbed, I promise you, it's not going to matter. But love will matter. Love is the only part of life that really can last forever because we bring that with us into eternity. That's God's kingdom here on earth. And so let's not wait till we're on our deathbed to realize that that's really what's important.
- [08:06]
John Fuller
Yeah. Being a pastor and studying the Scripture, what is that finer definition of love? What did you come to the conclusion? That love is what love is.
- [08:16]
Dave Willis
A commitment and an action that's rooted in selflessness for the sake of the other person ahead of your own.
- [08:21]
John Fuller
Wow, that's good.
- [08:22]
Dave Willis
And that's what God is doing. I mean, Jesus lived that out. He gave his very life. And that's an act of. That's what love looks like, you know, love doesn't look like a heart shaped box filled with chocolates on Valentine's Day. Even though that's nice too, I do love some chocolate. But love is action and it's selflessness. And Jesus said, this is what love looks like. And then in the marriage ministry, Ashley and I do, he raised the bar to the extreme level by saying, now, husbands, I want you to go love your wives this way. I love my church this way. You go love your wives this way. You know, he gave his very life. He gave all of himself. And then he said, love each other in your homes, love each other in marriage. Love each other with this kind of same love. He told his disciples, the same way I've loved you, now go love others. And that's our call too. And so, like Jesus, you died for us when we were completely unworthy of it. You gave everything to us when we had no way to repay you. And Jesus is saying, yeah, that's what love is. Now go out into the world and do that and you'll change the world.
- [09:18]
John Fuller
In the seven laws of love, you mentioned how boundaries produce power in love. Connect those dots for me.
- [09:28]
Dave Willis
Yeah, I had a friend named Tommy who kind of gave me the illustration. He said that the Mississippi river and kind of the Florida swamps have the same amount of water, but the Mississippi river is able to take goods and services and people anywhere they want to go because it flows in one direction with clear boundaries on both sides where the swamps and the marshes have all that water, but there are no boundaries. So it's just everything is just kind of wet and nasty. And so, yes, love needs boundaries. And I think people think, well, that doesn't seem right. Love's supposed to be limitless and love supposed to be without boundaries. But God gives everything that matters boundaries for our protection and not for our limitation, but for our protection. And the seven laws of love are really just outlining what those boundaries are that are going to help love flow freely and powerfully from us to others.
- [10:18]
John Fuller
Dave, let me emphasize this because I think in the culture today there is a selfishness that continues to grow. I mean, it feels like when I was five, I didn't feel, and I wasn't totally cognizant of everything. But you're becoming aware it seems like the culture was kinder back then, that we tolerated things a bit more, that we didn't have social media biting at each other. And so today it feels like, you know, there's just so many things working against loving your neighbor as Christ commanded us to do. I mean, I don't like the way that person looks. I don't like the way that person speaks. I don't like what they say when they speak. It's all that stuff. Right. And even in the church, we express those, you know, especially in the political arena. I mean, we express great disgust with people that don't think the way we think or go the way we want them to go. So with that, let's dive into the laws. Because I think the point I'm trying to make here is it's very practical. The church needs to understand what it means to love God and to love your neighbor. And for the rest of the program, that's what we're going to talk about. So law number one is that love requires commitment. So how have we as a culture, let commitment fall away?
- [11:30]
Dave Willis
Gosh, in every way, in the marriage work that Ashley and I do, we just see all the time that the whole concept of a committed marriage is something that's just falling apart in our culture. And that was really kind of the cornerstone of commitment in human relationships that God established. And so if that's falling apart, the ripple effect from that is, then what's the point of commitment anywhere?
- [11:51]
John Fuller
Well, in fact, that kind of proves my point. That's a symptom of something in the soul.
- [11:55]
Jim Daly
It is.
- [11:56]
John Fuller
And if divorce rates are growing in the Christian community, that would say we don't know what we're doing.
- [12:02]
Dave Willis
Yeah, I mean, really, we're buying into everything the world says about relationships, and they have no idea what they're talking about. But God's word is still timeless, and he still has the perfect plan for the way love and relationships are supposed to work. And without commitment, it won't exist. Every bit of love has to exist within a commitment to that person.
- [12:22]
John Fuller
So rule one is commitment. Rule two is selfless sacrifice. Okay, now I'm getting uncomfortable.
- [12:28]
Dave Willis
Yeah, of course.
- [12:29]
John Fuller
Really? You're gonna ask me not to do something I really want to do in order to, you know, appease my wife? Come on, Dave.
- [12:37]
Dave Willis
That's where love is most powerful, is when it costs us something. Because that's really the main distinction between, like, the world's view of relationships, which is just networking. You know, you do something for me, I'll do something for you. But I'm not going to do more for you than you did for me.
- [12:50]
Jim Daly
It's all transaction.
- [12:51]
Dave Willis
It's all a transaction.
- [12:52]
John Fuller
You used a story in this one about your dad sacrificing something. Explain what happened there.
- [12:58]
Dave Willis
Yeah. You know, mom and dad, they really taught us this Growing up, they were always so willing to sacrifice for us, their children. But then we also saw that in the way they treated others. And so they gave us a really great example to look to for what this selfless love can be. But I remember a time when I was like 5, and then I had brothers who were 3 years old and one that was just an infant, and we were broke at the time. My family was really on lean times. And dad came home and mom was crying, and he said, why are you crying? And she said, we're out of milk and we don't have any money to buy any more milk. And dad, in that moment, without even thinking twice, he went to his room and he went and grabbed these two silver dollar coins that his grandmother had given him. That had enormous personal significance to it. It was the only thing of hers that he still had. And he went to the store with those $2 because to them, it didn't represent this family heirloom. It represented meeting a real need for his family. And he plopped them down on the counter and he brought home a gallon of milk. And I didn't know all the details of that story until later when mom told me. But I just thought, man, what a powerful example of selflessness, of giving up something we love for someone we love more. And that's really what love is. That's what we, as the church are called to do. In fact, Jesus said, that's what's going to set us apart. The unbelieving world will look to the church and they'll know that it's for real. They'll know you're really following me, not because of the sign you have out front, not because of anything but love, he said, this is how they'll know you're my disciples, how you love one another. So if we're not making love, what it's all about, then we're letting go of the most important mandate Jesus ever gave us.
- [14:38]
John Fuller
Yeah. Selfless sacrifice number two. Number three. And this is a good one to explore a bit. Speaking the truth in love. It's certainly a phrase we use as Christians. What does that actually look like? I mean, we can be brutal, speaking the truth in love.
- [14:51]
Dave Willis
Yeah.
- [14:53]
John Fuller
I love you, but. Yeah. And have you looked at the mirror lately?
- [14:56]
Dave Willis
How much weight have you gained?
- [14:57]
John Fuller
Right. It's all that stuff, but we can kind of coat it in love. But we're really throwing you a dagger.
- [15:03]
Dave Willis
Yeah. Yeah. Well, the truth and love always are inextricably linked. Jesus is the embodiment of both. You know, He Said I'm the way, the truth, and the life. He's saying I'm the embodiment of truth. And he's also, of course, the embodiment of love. They can't exist apart from each other, but the Bible also says you have to because they're connected so much. You have to speak the truth in love. Just speaking facts apart from love, with cruelty in your voice is not speaking truth, and it's not speaking love. We've got to be willing to speak the truth in love, which means I'm telling you this even if it wounds me to say it, because it's for your good, and I'm saying it out of love. And that can happen if we have to kind of correct or admonish one another when we see somebody stepping out in sin and do that in a loving and a humble way. And to invite people to do that for us as well, to have that kind of accountability in a world where we don't like accountability, but we all need it. But we can't be cruel. You know, in marriage, we always. We always tell people in the marriage ministry, Ashley and I do, that you got to tell each other the truth, but you never, ever, ever, ever get to be cruel. Be kind and compassionate to one another. It says in Ephesians, be tender hearted toward one another. And what that means, practically is be your loved one's biggest encourager, not their biggest critic. And if we'll just choose to lead with encouragement and always speak the truth through that lens of encouragement, then we'll be on the right track.
- [16:21]
John Fuller
Yeah. Number five, you say love offers grace and forgiveness. You had some analogy about forgiveness and mosquitoes. I don't know how you could say those two things in one sentence, but how did that go? Forgiveness and mosquitoes.
- [16:36]
Dave Willis
Yes. So mosquitoes and forgiveness. Who knew? They went together. And what I learned, I'm still skeptical.
- [16:41]
John Fuller
Prove it to me.
- [16:42]
Dave Willis
Here's the deal. I am delicious. Apparently, there's something about me that when I moved to an area, the mosquitoes have, like. Have you tasted the new guy? He's amazing. I don't know what it is, but they just. I'm like the hot restaurant in town. Everybody wants in. And Ashley, they don't like, you know, even though she's the beautiful and wonderful one, but they don't like her. So they're always coming to me and she laughs about it. So I've got to lather myself up with mosquito repellent, with DEET and all of that.
- [17:07]
John Fuller
That's really good stuff.
- [17:08]
Dave Willis
It is. And so I smell weird, but it keeps them away. And it kind of got me thinking that, you know, just like mosquitoes, a lack of forgiveness in our life can just be something that is so incredibly distracting and annoying and something that captures us, our thoughts and our focus, and takes away our peace. Because all we're thinking about are these tiny little things swarming around us. When we have the ability to put something on that's going to repel it. And love is really the repellent to that lack of forgiveness. Because when we choose to love, what it does is it softens our heart and it allows us to let go of those grudges that we're holding onto and to really embrace peace. God doesn't want his kids walking around holding grudges against one another, because when you do it, you're the one that suffers. It was St. Augustine who said, holding a grudge is like drinking poison and then hoping the other person dies. And there's so many of us gargling this poison of a lack of forgiveness, trying to punish the people around us when it only hurts us. And Jesus is saying, live in love, live in freedom, and let go of those grudges.
- [18:05]
John Fuller
Well, and it's. You know, the people that have been hurt are hesitant to open themselves up to love because there's always the chance of being hurt again. Right. So you. I guess in some ways you might call that callousing of your heart, that you're guarded after a while. But real love is also healing and transformative. As you said at the beginning. What are some steps to take toward finding that kind of healing love? To rip the scabs off, to be able to trust.
- [18:33]
Dave Willis
Yeah. And when you're hurt, it's hard. It's kind of like if you go to the beach and you get sunburned and then someone comes and they pat you on the back and you want to punch them because they've hurt you. Not intentionally. They didn't do anything at all wrong. They just touched you in a place you were wounded. And there are a lot of us carrying around kind of this emotional sunburn and scarring all over our hearts because of things that have happened in the past times. We've been hurt. And so the people who are trying to love us now, just by proximity of being around us, it's like they're touching a wound and we're pushing them away. But really, to really experience healing, we've got to be willing to take the risk and let people in. Starting first and foremost with Jesus, the Ultimate healer to just find peace and healing in his word and in his promises and in what he says about you and the fact that he is never going to leave you or forsake you, even if other people in your life did leave you and forsake you and to find your healing in him and then to have the courage and the faith to allow other people into your life where you can love them. And yes, anytime you're in a relationship, there's an element of risk that you could get hurt. But it's a risk that we have to have the courage to take because love is always worth the risk.
- [19:37]
John Fuller
Well, and that's the key. I mean, you're going to live a very shallow life if you stay in that protected area and you don't interact with people because you don't want to be wounded. There's lots of rationalizations for that, but I think trusting God to trust others is what you're saying.
- [19:53]
Dave Willis
Yeah.
- [19:54]
John Fuller
Dave, you share a story of a friend of yours. I think he's a police officer named Jamie. What did he share with you that made an impact on the seventh law, which is love lives forever?
- [20:04]
Dave Willis
Yeah. Jamie's a great guy. And just a shout out to all of you who are protecting us as first responders. The work that you guys do is so important and does not go unnoticed. And you know, Jamie's one of those guys keeping our community safe. And part of what he gets called to do because he is not only a brave protector, but he's also a tender hearted and compassionate guy is he gets to do a lot of the death notices. You know, when someone has been killed in an auto accident, he goes to the home and informs the family. When someone has died within a home, you know, he's usually one of the first on the scenes just to be a presence. And he's got this pastor's heart and he provides a lot of hope and help in those moments. And he was telling me the story of being called to a home where an elderly woman had passed away. And he was the first one on the scene. And he went into the house and the husband was there and he was just very tenderly and gently stroking his wife's hair and kneeling by her bedside with tears in his eyes. And Jamie started talking to him and this man just started telling all these stories about his wife and the love that they had for each other, the love that she had for Jesus and how he knew that she was with Jesus now, the love she had for their family. And as Jamie looked around the house and he just saw all these pictures documenting decades and decades of living a life of love, a life worth living. And he realized that, man, this is a woman and this is a couple, that they've done it right. I mean, this is a love story that really will last forever because of Jesus. Love isn't a story with a happy ending. Love is a story with no ending and one that can continue because of him in eternity. And these are two people that really understood that. And as he shared that story with me, it was just a reminder that God is still doing miracles every day, just through those simple acts of love.
- [21:48]
John Fuller
And the sweet thing in that story, if I know it correctly, I think the man said 66 years just wasn't enough time to spend together.
- [21:58]
Dave Willis
Yeah, the most important line of the story, I left it out, but what a beautiful line. Yes. 66 years together, it wasn't nearly enough time. And I think, man, what a powerful picture of the way that a marriage should look.
- [22:12]
John Fuller
You mentioned love is everlasting, and that can be a great legacy. Obviously, you knew a family in your hometown that lost their son in a car accident. How was love demonstrated in that instance?
- [22:24]
Dave Willis
Yeah, it was a powerful story. It was a family that I'd grown up with. And there was a young man named Paul, and he had a car accident one night. I didn't know Paul personally, but I went to school. I was in the same grade with his younger sister, Kathy, So I knew of his family well. And Paul, when He was about 19, had a car accident. His family was called to the hospital. One of those calls you never hope you get as a parent. Your son's been in an accident, get here right away. And when they got there, their worst nightmare was confirmed, that Paul had passed away in this accident. And in that moment of absolute pain and panic, they can't even think straight. The doctor said, and I hate to ask you this right now, but this is a time sensitive issue. Would you like to donate your son's organs? You know, he was a young, healthy guy. A lot of lives could be saved through this tragedy. And so they thought about it and they said, you know, Paul loved people. We know that he's not in that body anymore. He's with Jesus. He would want us to say yes to this. And so they did. They said yes, and they signed the papers and they went on their way just grieving the loss of their son. And then after about a year, as they kind of gone through that grieving process and were thinking back to their son's life and Legacy. They said, you know, we want to meet these people who received one of our son's organs. I mean, they're. They're part of our family now. They're part of us, and they're part of Paul, and we should meet him. And so they reached out to the hospital, and the hospital reached out to these recipients, and every single one of them said, yes, please, we would love to meet you, and thank you. And so they went on this kind of road trip tour just to meet people. They met a woman who'd received one of their son's kidneys, and she hugged them, and she wept and cried and said, thank you. I'm going to get to watch my grandchildren grow up. I'm so sorry for your loss, but because of what you did, I have a new life. And one by one, there were stories like that. And they waited intentionally to the very end to get to the guy who'd received their son's heart. And so, sure enough, they wait till the end, and they get to this gentleman's house, and they pull up the gravel drive out in the country where he lives. And before Paul's dad had even stopped the car, Paul's mom had flung open the car door and had run out of the car because she saw this gentleman standing on his porch. And she ran up to him, and before he could even greet her, before he could even speak, she. She just kind of flung herself into his arms and she embraced him in a hug that was so tight he couldn't even breathe. And. And after a few moments of kind of awkward silence, he tried to say, hello, it's nice to meet you. And she just said, please don't speak. Please don't speak. And a few moments later, she slowly pulled away. And there were. There were tears streaming down her face, but there was a huge smile on her face. And she said, when I hold you close to me, I can feel my son's heart beating inside of you. And when I heard that story, it was just a reminder of this reunion we're all going to have with our Father, God, our Father in heaven, one day when we cross from this life into eternity. I believe that the arms that created the universe are going to want to wrap themselves around us, that God is going to run to you like he ran to the prodigal son and wrap us up in a big bear hug. And in that moment, he's not going to want to praise us for how much money we made or how many academic degrees we got or any of those kind of things. I think the first thing he's going to want to say to us is, when I hold you close to me, I can feel my son's heart. I can feel the heart of Jesus, a heart of love beating inside of you. And that's what really matters. In the end, that's all that really matters. And if we'll live life with that kind of perspective, I think it'll keep us on the path God has for us.
- [25:47]
John Fuller
What a beautiful story. Thanks. I can't see anything right now because of my tears, but that is perfect. What a great place to end. And Dave, I'm so grateful to you for your wonderful book, the Seven Laws of Love. We've done our best to cover as much as we possibly could, but you need a copy of this and really join us in ministry. Help us financially, pray for us. And I'd love to send you a copy of Dave's book as our way of saying thank you when you do join us to be a partner in this ministry.
- [26:16]
Jim Daly
Donate and get your copy of the Seven Laws of Love. We've got details in the show notes or call 800-the- Letter A and the word family.
- [26:25]
John Fuller
Dave, thanks for being with us. Give our love to Ashley as well.
- [26:28]
Dave Willis
Absolutely.
- [26:28]
Jim Daly
Thanks again guys and be sure to join us tomorrow. You'll hear from Rebecca St. James as she describes her life, her love, and her faith journey.
- [26:37]
Dave Willis
As I've gotten older, I've noticed that.
- [26:39]
John Fuller
There'S something beautiful about the highs and.
- [26:41]
Dave Willis
The lows intertwining and Cubby and I.
- [26:44]
John Fuller
Sought God and each other and found.
- [26:47]
Dave Willis
Comfort right there in the messy middle.
- [26:50]
Jim Daly
On behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. How do you and your spouse connect spiritually? Would you like to be closer? Focus on the Family invites you to listen to the Loving well podcast, season eight, just released. And your hosts, Dr. Greg and Aaron Smalley, share insights and humor from their own marriage of over 30 years. And they'll offer you practical ideas to strengthen your marriage by focusing on God. Listen, follow and grow together with the Lovingwell Podcast. You'll find it@focusonthefamily.com LovingWell.