The Life-Changing Power of Faithful Friendships

Summary

Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Episode: The Life-Changing Power of Faithful Friendships
Release Date: May 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, hosts Jim Daly and John Fuller delve into the profound impact of faithful friendships on personal growth and spiritual journeys. The episode features an inspiring dialogue between Grammy-nominated singer and songwriter Walker Hayes and Bible teacher Craig Cooper. Their unexpected and enduring friendship, forged under unlikely circumstances, serves as a testament to the transformative power of genuine connections rooted in faith.

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Guest Backgrounds

Walker Hayes

• Profession: Grammy-nominated singer and songwriter
• Personal Life: Married to Lainey Hayes with seven children
• Achievements: Sold millions of songs and albums
• Journey: Transitioned from struggling artist contemplating a career change to a celebrated musician

Craig Cooper

• Profession: Bible teacher and storyteller
• Pastoral Work: Former founding pastor of Redeeming Grace Church in Franklin, Tennessee
• Personal Life: Married to Laura Cooper with four children
• Achievements: Speaks at churches and men's retreats, co-authored a book with Walker Hayes titled Glad You're Here: Two Unlikely Friends Breaking Bread and Fences

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The Unlikely Friendship

The heart of the episode revolves around the two guests’ enduring friendship, which spans over two decades despite their starkly different backgrounds. At the onset, Walker Hayes was an atheist grappling with personal and professional struggles, while Craig Cooper was a pastor deeply entrenched in his ministry. Their bond was nurtured through shared experiences of brokenness, redemption, and a mutual journey toward faith.

Notable Quote:
John Fuller reflects on the depth of their relationship, saying, “That’s our topic today… an unlikely friendship and the remarkable story of friendship and encouragement and tenacity, unconditional love, redemption” (01:30).

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Breaking Down Barriers

One of the pivotal moments highlighted in the conversation is when Walker and Craig symbolically dismantled the barriers between their families by tearing down a fence that had physically separated their homes. This act served as a metaphor for overcoming prejudices and embracing vulnerability.

Notable Quote:
Walker Hayes recounts, “We just jumped up and we ran straight to the fence and we started yanking it down” (02:25). Craig Cooper adds, “Our kids had already kind of carved a path, you know, in the grass” (03:02), emphasizing the natural progression of their relationship despite initial hesitations.

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Personal Struggles and Faith Journeys

Craig Cooper’s Story:
Craig opens up about his tumultuous journey with faith and personal hardships. Initially an atheist despite his church-going upbringing, Craig faced significant struggles, including addiction. His turning point came during his time in college when a profound spiritual encounter led him to embrace Christianity fully.

Notable Quote:
Craig shares, “I was born again… my life completely changed” (09:59), highlighting the transformative power of his newfound faith.

Walker Hayes’ Struggles:
Walker discusses his battles with perseverance in the music industry and personal doubts regarding his pursuit of a musical career versus providing for his family. His friendship with Craig provided the support and encouragement needed to navigate these challenges.

Notable Quote:
Walker reflects, “In that moment… I mean, you’re probably a little tipsy tonight, but I’m still glad you’re here” (17:51), illustrating the sincerity and acceptance he felt from Craig even during his lowest moments.

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The Power of Acceptance and Support

A recurring theme in the episode is the unwavering support and acceptance that Walker and Craig offer each other. Craig’s approachability and genuine care helped Walker feel accepted despite his struggles and doubts about faith.

Notable Quote:
Craig recalls, “He just came straight up to me. He shook my hand super hard… I'm glad you're here” (15:45), showcasing the immediate and heartfelt connection that laid the foundation for their friendship.

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Lessons on Faith and Friendship

The episode underscores several key lessons:

1. Unconditional Love: True friendships transcend differences and provide a safe space for individuals to express their true selves.

2. Redemption Through Relationships: Meaningful connections can lead to personal and spiritual growth, offering support during times of adversity.

3. Breaking Down Prejudices: Symbolic acts, like tearing down fences, represent the willingness to overcome barriers and embrace others wholeheartedly.

Notable Quote:
John Fuller ties it all together with a biblical perspective, referencing Proverbs 17:17: “A friend loves at all times and a brother is born for adversity” (01:30).

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Conclusion

The Life-Changing Power of Faithful Friendships beautifully illustrates how genuine relationships can serve as pillars of strength and catalysts for personal transformation. Through the stories of Walker Hayes and Craig Cooper, listeners are reminded of the profound impact that faithful friendships can have on navigating life’s challenges and fostering a deeper connection with faith.

By sharing their journey, Walker and Craig inspire listeners to seek out and cherish friendships that encourage, support, and uplift, embodying the true essence of community and unconditional love.

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Book Mentioned:
Glad You're Here: Two Unlikely Friends Breaking Bread and Fences by Walker Hayes and Craig Cooper. Check the show notes for the link to get your copy!

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This episode serves as a testament to the enduring power of friendship and faith, encouraging listeners to cultivate meaningful relationships that enrich their lives and those around them.

Transcript

[Walker Hayes]

When I'm around my best friend, I can be however crazy I want, however silly I want. And they remind me that I don't.

[Craig Cooper]

Have to change because they love me.

[Walker Hayes]

Just the way that I am.

[Craig Cooper]

So my best childhood friend really shows that they care for me by reaching out and asking how I'm doing. And they just don't want the simple I'm fine, but they want really a true deep answer. The best part of my best friend is the fact that no matter how long in between visits, it's like we just left. We giggle, we laugh, and we're still there for each other all the time, no matter what.

[John Fuller]

Well, I wonder if you have a friend like that, somebody who obviously cares for you and wants the very best for your life. That's our topic today on FOCUS on THE FAMILY with Jim Daly. And thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.

[Walker Hayes]

JOHN Today we're going to hear from an unlikely friendship between two men that has spanned more than 20 years. Now, one at that time was an atheist, the other a pastor. And somehow God intertwined their lives and their families into this remarkable story of friendship and encouragement and tenacity, unconditional love, redemption. So this story definitely reminds me of Proverbs 17:17, which says a friend loves at all times and a brother is born for adversity. I always thought I got two older brothers. I thought it meant they were born to teach you. There could be some of that today. I think we're going to learn a new spin on that. I think the scriptures sum up this friendship perfectly and I'm eager to unpack those details with our two guest.

[John Fuller]

Yeah, we've got Walker Hayes, a Grammy nominated singer and songwriter. He has sold millions of copies of his songs and albums and he and his wife Lainey are the parents of seven children. Craig Cooper is a Bible teacher and storyteller who speaks at churches and men's retreats and other venues. He's formerly one of the founding pastors of Redeeming Grace Church in Franklin, Tennessee. And he and his wife Laura have four children. And together Walker and Craig have written a book about their friendship and it's called Glad you'd're here. Two Unlikely Friends Breaking bread and fences. And we have copies of that book for you. Check the show notes for the link.

[Walker Hayes]

And not only are they good friends, but they're also neighbors. Now let me say hello to both of you.

[Craig Cooper]

Hello.

[Walker Hayes]

Welcome to focus.

[Jim Daly]

Hello.

[Walker Hayes]

Thank you for that. Let me ask you, the book talks about this moment where you guys tear down your fence now, you've never heard that fences make good neighbors.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, that was. We were sitting outside on your patio and walk said, hey, why don't we surprise the girls, our wives? And just not a good thing right there.

[Walker Hayes]

That's not a good thing.

[Jim Daly]

Well, what was happening was the kids were jumping over it and going back and forth between each other's houses over Covid. And when he said that, I was like, we did. I didn't hesitate. We just jumped up and we ran straight to the fence and we started yanking it down. It took us about 45 minutes or so to get it.

[Walker Hayes]

And your wives were.

[Craig Cooper]

Tore it up.

[Walker Hayes]

Your wives were calm watching this.

[Craig Cooper]

I mean, they've known us long enough. They weren't surprised. And they were smiling the whole time. I mean, our kids had already kind of carved a path, you know, in the grass. So, yeah, so that was a cut down.

[Walker Hayes]

Let me go back walking.

[Craig Cooper]

Yeah, yeah.

[Walker Hayes]

Let's go back to the beginning and kind of fill in for the viewers, the listeners. Where were you at? You wanted to be a music star. Just give us a feel for where you're at 20 years ago, what was going through your head?

[Craig Cooper]

Oh, shoot. I mean, 20 years ago is when I got married. You know, Laney and I were engaged. On a whim, I played a gig in Mobile at a bar, and I loved it so much that I stopped selling real estate that night. Literally just quit and had a dinner with her parents and said, hey, you know, change of plans. I think I want to go to Nashville and try, you know, try songwriting. So, yeah, that's where music kind of started for me 20 years ago. That's. That's what got us to Nashville. But, yeah, Lanny was up for the adventure and we moved. I mean, literally drove from our honeymoon in a U Haul and got an apartment. I mean, it was.

[Walker Hayes]

So you're thinking, okay, I'm good enough. I'm going to become a musician and someone's going to notice me. I'll get signed to a label. This will be great, and we're going have our kids and everything will work out. But it wasn't quite like that.

[Craig Cooper]

All that stuff you thought would have been smart. I wouldn't even, you know, I just was thinking, let's just go and figure it out. You know, I didn't know what a label was. I had no idea how many kids we, you know, we were trying to have. I just wanted to sing, you know, just wanted to write songs.

[Walker Hayes]

Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

[Craig Cooper]

It was.

[Walker Hayes]

So how long were you a Waiter.

[Craig Cooper]

Oh, actually, I actually was a waiter at Macaroni Grill in college. So, yeah, I sang Bingo, dude. Got some experience there, singing Happy Birthday in Italian, you know, for tips. But, yeah, man, I did that. I've done all kinds of jobs, you know, and when I met Craig, I was struggling. We had just. I just been dropped. This was 15 years into my journey, maybe 13 to 15 years into my journey. And I had just been dropped from my second record deal, and I was into my third publishing deal, so not making any money at music, and was about to apply for a job at Costco. Just to ask.

[Walker Hayes]

I mean, in that moment. I mean, so often we have people on here. It's perseverance and, you know, but it probably doesn't feel like it at that moment. You're going, okay, I'm sure Laney's going. You sure you want to keep doing this? Because we got to eat.

[Craig Cooper]

Yeah. No, no. I mean, oddly enough, my wife never. I mean, it's astounding, and it's probably unbelievable to hear, but she never. That's one blessing. Laney never once said, hey, do you want to get a normal job? I mean, she was always extremely happy and joyful in times of extreme poverty.

[Walker Hayes]

Maybe we should publish your marriage book coming out soon.

[Craig Cooper]

Honestly. Yeah, Laney should write a book. But, yeah, you know, I definitely questioned myself as a father, chasing the dream, like, would I be a better parent by giving up, you know, my dream and getting a normal occupation that fed my kids, you know, better food and got them better clothes and xyz. But, you know, I definitely doubted myself then.

[Walker Hayes]

In that state, you were also battling with alcohol, and you're. You're drinking and probably medicating through that. I don't know.

[Craig Cooper]

But describe it for yourself. I mean, I started drinking when I was 13 and didn't stop till I was 35.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Walker Hayes]

That's amazing.

[Craig Cooper]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just. That was just kind of how I coped with any hardships of life or, I mean, just, you know, life in general. But I was a functional alcoholic and definitely relied on it to perform, you know.

[Walker Hayes]

Well, I mean, there are many, many people in that spot. So you're talking to a large swath of folks that are in that spot even. Let me ask you, though, spiritually, you weren't a Christian. Maybe you had an interest. But describe for yourself what faith or no faith you had at that time.

[Craig Cooper]

At that time, when I met Craig, I had zero faith. I mean, I grew up. My dad was a music minister before he was A realtor. And so I grew up and I was in church. If the doors were open, I was there. And then, you know, as I got older, I went the other way. And. And so, yeah, when I met Craig, yeah, I was an atheist. I mean, I didn't believe any of it. I was cordial, you know, with my wife, who was a believer. And honestly, that was really one of the only arguments we had in our marriage because it was like, what are we going to teach our kids? We didn't fight about money because we never had any. And so our marriage was pretty peaceful. But, yeah, when I met Craig, I was not a believer.

[Walker Hayes]

Let's get Craig into this. Craig, welcome in.

[Jim Daly]

Thanks for being here.

[Walker Hayes]

Okay, so you're the neighbor. You're watching this. I don't know what you're thinking and where you're at, but tell me a bit about your background, how you grew up and how you ended up next door to him.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, a little bit. Like Walker, I grew up in a church setting. You know, if the doors were open, I was there Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. Ended up becoming a leader in a youth group there. And I would say I was very familiar with the idea of Jesus, but I didn't know him. I didn't have a relationship with God at all. I didn't realize it was all religion to me. And yet that's what was happening in me.

[Walker Hayes]

And it was about college. Sometime in college. Bang.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. So I had, when I was 17, working as a bag boy, Red food store in East Tennessee. I had a wooden cross that would hang on a rope necklace. And I remember the first really spiritual conversation that I had was this lady kind of stopped me after I had helped her unload the groceries. And she said, you're such a kind young man. Do you mind if I ask you a question? And I said, sure, shoot. What's up? And she said, that cross around your neck? And she pointed to the wooden cross around the rope necklace. And I said, yeah. And she said, is it decoration or is it real? And I had never really had anybody challenge me on that before. I didn't, you know, that's kind of.

[Walker Hayes]

Right between the eyes.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. I kind of looked down and I smiled and laughed and said a little bit of both, I guess. And then I walked off and I couldn't get that question out of my head. You know, that cross around your neck, is it decoration or is it real? And for me, what I realized is it was decoration. And freshman year of college, I went to the University of Tennessee And I was invited to campus ministry, where I heard the gospel. And I realized the cross is not decoration. It's a declaration of God's love for us and sending his own son to live the perfect life we could never live, and then to die as a substitute in our place so that we could be forgiven and have eternal life. And that night, I was. I was just. I was born again. I was. My life completely changed. And I. The campus ministry director, said, hey, champ, what's God doing in your heart? And I said, I want to give my life to Jesus, and I want to do what that man's doing. And I pointed to the guy who had just shared the gospel with me. And that kind of put me on a trajectory of ministry, towards ministry. And, yeah, went into ministry, got let go from the first ministry position, really broke my heart. And the Lord used it to draw me to himself. And we bonded over that. Actually, when Walker was telling me about how he had been released and dropped from a couple of record labels, I could relate, because I'm like, yeah, dude, I got fired from the church where I had heard the gospel, came to Faith in Christ and went and served the campus ministry and got burned out. And we bonded over dreams, and we bonded over brokenness. Both of them happened. And the Lord just created this friendship that it was like the smile of God.

[Walker Hayes]

You mention in the book that your church upbringing or orientation kind of gave you this sense of prudishness. Either you observed it in other people or you had it within yourself. Speak to that element. And then even reaching out and looking at people differently.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, I think God had to break my own heart, you know, to give me a tender heart for the broken. I think that's what happened. So it was the hardest thing that I. One of the hardest things I had ever gone through was being let go from that ministry position. It was also one of the best things that could have ever happened to me.

[Walker Hayes]

That's interesting. You feel like it's the bottom of the moment, though, that you're at the bottom of the barrel.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. God used it so much in my life to draw me to him and also to show me he didn't need me. Like, that church did really well after I was gone, and it was helpful to just watch. And so I had this sense, okay, Lord doesn't need me. And I just took long walks on Sunday afternoons and poured my heart out to God. The good, the bad, the ugly. Almost like, you know, one of my favorite verses is Psalm 62. 8. Trust in him at all Times, O peoples, pour out your heart before him, for God is a refuge for us. And I felt like the Lord was just welcoming me to come and share whatever was in my heart. And in that moment, it was the brokenness, and it felt at times like a neglected milk carton that had been curdled. And I was pouring out nasty stuff as I was praying and walking with the Lord. And he just healed me in that. Then the church hired me back five years later and said, we want to send you to help plant a church. And I kind of got trained to do that. And then we moved to Nashville in 2012, and we met the Hayes family. January of 2014. Yeah.

[Walker Hayes]

All right. Now, we've set the background up, and I think it's important, knowing where you're coming from, Walker, Craig, where you're coming from, you end up next door. I believe your wife asked your wife, Walker, to church and you didn't want to go.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah.

[Craig Cooper]

And just for factual, we were not neighbors at that point. At this point.

[Walker Hayes]

Okay, so they were. They were. They knew each other.

[Craig Cooper]

They met at. My wife. Met Craig's wife, Laura at a Doterra oil party.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. Which I guess that was the thing.

[Craig Cooper]

A Tupperware party. But oil, you know, essential oil that girls do.

[Jim Daly]

We don't even do.

[Walker Hayes]

Yeah, I don't even know what you're talking about.

[Craig Cooper]

You know, I do now. I'm very familiar with the.

[Walker Hayes]

With the oils.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah.

[Craig Cooper]

No, no, no, no, no. It's just. There's some good oils. But anyway, they. They met, and then they saw each other again at an Upward basketball game. So our. Our kids played basketball at the same church, and Laura invited Laney to church. And honestly, at this. At this phase of our life, I thought we were finished with the church hunting phase. You know, my wife, honestly had gotten quite comfortable with no, you know, services on Sunday. I mean, for gosh sakes, we had five kids, and that's a lot, you know, getting up. And so she. She had stopped by then, bugging me about, hey, let's try this church, or, I want to be a part of this community. But so. So when Laura invited Lainey, I was devastated. I mean, I was. I was. I was like.

[Walker Hayes]

Your plan was really comfortable.

[Craig Cooper]

Oh, man. This Laura. Why. Why did this Laura.

[Jim Daly]

And we met on Saturday nights. So you. You didn't.

[Craig Cooper]

They did. So they. They met on Saturday nights, which was during football season, which was. Was pretty terrible also. But she drags me to this. To this church one night, and I'm. I've had A. A good, good amount. This is. This was prior to me quitting. So, you know, I'm drinking this Saturday, football day, and I'm riding in the shotgun seat. And as we approach the building, there's no lights anywhere. And they're sharing a building with a really old church, and I have no idea where we are. And I made the joke of. I feel like I should call someone before this cult, you know, kidnaps us. And even Lanny, my wife, she cracked. She laughed, the kids laughed. Everybody thought it was funny. But, yeah, man, we walked in this church and, you know, when you walk in with. With five kids, everybody, you know, everybody turns around to look at us. And I look like this. You know, my hair is probably a little longer, and I probably looked a little shaggy. And I reeked of whatever I was drinking that day. And I'm sure we had a baby. We always had a baby. And Craig beeline for me, and he just came straight up to me. He shook my hand super hard. He made awkward eye contact, you know, just would not look away from me. And he said, I'm glad you're here. I mean, any minute. I mean, he kept saying it. As you can imagine, you know, you've met the guy. Glad you're here. Dude, I'm so glad you're here. And honestly, I just thought, oh, you know, he's probably the greeter guy, you know, of this. You know, this church. And that's where it all began. I didn't love the church, you know, I didn't go home and nothing really changed. I just was intrigued. There was something about this guy that said, I know what you don't believe. I even know.

[Jim Daly]

You're.

[Craig Cooper]

You're probably a little tipsy tonight, but I'm still glad you're here, you know, and that, I don't know, that information shocked me, you know, in a little way.

[Walker Hayes]

You felt accepted.

[Craig Cooper]

Yeah, that's what it sounds like. And I'm not even sure I liked it. As I'm telling you now, I'm reliving it, thinking I was probably a little agitated and probably going, what's the catch here?

[Walker Hayes]

Yeah, all of it at one time. Is this true?

[Craig Cooper]

Exactly.

[Walker Hayes]

Yeah, I could imagine that.

[Craig Cooper]

Yeah.

[John Fuller]

And, Craig, earlier you were talking just a few minutes ago about kind of brokenness and how God was working through you to understand grace. So go back to that moment. What were you thinking as you encountered this new family and a guy who might be drunk?

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. Oh, I mean, I was just blown away. They came. You know, it was a church plant meeting on Saturday nights. We were in the winter when the sun sets in Nashville around 4:30 or noon. Yeah. And there's a lot of hurdles, you know, to overcome for somebody to come. And also I'm familiar with outreach and everything where you end up. Sometimes people will say, yeah, we'll come, but they don't. They don't show up. And Lara had told me about, you know, the. That moment where she had invited Lainey and then Laney said they would come and all that kind of stuff. I think I was just genuinely elated that they overcame all of those hurdles and walked in the door. And so, yeah, walk says I said, glad you're here. And he felt it.

[Unknown]

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