← Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
The Life-Changing Power of Faithful Friendships (Part 2 of 2)
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- [00:01]
Jim Daly
Today on FOCUS on the FAMILY with Jim Daly, we'll return to a remarkable story about two men who experienced a somewhat awkward interaction several years ago in the lobby of a church.
- [00:13]
Walker Hayes
And he said, I'm glad you're here. I mean, any minute. I mean, he kept saying it. As you can imagine, you know, you've met the guy. Glad you're here, dude, I'm so glad you're here. And that's where it all began. I didn't love the church, you know, I didn't go home and nothing really changed. I just was intrigued. There was something about this guy that said, I know what you don't believe. I even know you're probably a little tipsy tonight, but I'm so glad you're here.
- [00:44]
Jim Daly
Well, that's Walker Hayes, the Grammy nominated singer and songwriter, describing the beginning of his friendship with Craig Cooper, who serves churches today as a Bible teacher and speaker. Now together, these two men have written a book called glad you'd're two Unlikely friends Breaking bread and Fences.
- [01:04]
John Fuller
John Last time we had a fascinating conversation with Craig and Walker about how the Lord deliberately began weaving their lives and families together. Their relationship didn't make any sense. An atheist and a pastor, but their wives became friends and their kids became friends. Isn't that how it always goes? And through a series of remarkable circumstances, they started hanging out together. And here's the thing. Craig didn't have a special gift of events evangelism. He was simply being a good friend, something we can all do with the people we meet and interact with every day. And that's one reason why we're sharing this program with you. It's a wonderful redemption story. And if you missed last time, get ahold of us and get the audio copy of it. Or you can watch it on YouTube or get the Focus app for your phone and you'll have access to everything.
- [01:57]
Jim Daly
Yeah. We'll tell you more about Walker and Craig and our previous conversation with them and their book. Glad you'd're here when you stop by the show. Notes for all the links. And now, Jim, we're going to pick up part two of the conversation with Walker Hayes and Craig Cooper talking about the impact of their wives Lainey and Laura. And it's today's episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
- [02:24]
John Fuller
Laney sounds amazing. I mean, she's a believer through all this. She does trust in the Lord. She's taking the glass at night as you fall asleep and making sure it doesn't spill. She's hanging there with you yeah, she sounds like an amazing woman.
- [02:40]
Walker Hayes
I mean, that. There's no way. I mean, I can't quantify, you know, what my wife means to me. I mean, I met her when I was. We started dating when I was 17. And I mean, she is. She is my best friend and has been.
- [02:59]
John Fuller
This is kind of that typical story. Four messed up guys who all married wonderful women. And then for you, Laura. Just speak to Laura and what she has meant to you.
- [03:09]
Craig Cooper
Well, I met my wife, you know, when I was a freshman in college after I had come to Faith in Christ. She actually shared her testimony at the campus ministry. And I was listening to her and seeing her joy in Jesus, her passion. And, you know, she was talking about summer mission trips to Albania and Russia and Botswana.
- [03:33]
John Fuller
And you said you had me at butts one. I remember that may have been a little weird.
- [03:38]
Craig Cooper
What's crazy is I listened to her. I was like, that's the kind of woman I want to marry. She just seemed like she would sharpen me in my faith. And afterwards we got introduced, which is funny story, because the dude picked me up, turned me upside down. A guy who's 6 foot 9, one of my friends. I was literally head over heels when somebody said, hey, Craig, I want you to meet Laura. And they flipped me back over and I said, your testimony is amazing. I love your smile. We talked for two and a half hours. And that night I left going, that is the woman I want to marry. She's very hospitable. She has a, like a heart for the Lord and she. But she also makes you comfortable. Makes me comfortable. You know, I just. I can't imagine doing life without her. Yeah. When Laura and Laney, like hit it off and then Walker and I hit it off, it was like, hang on a minute. Because you have. Sometimes you have couples where it's like, oh, the. The husband gets along really well with the other husband, or the wife gets along well with the wife. But it's magic. It's magical. It's a blessing when all the kids get along and, you know, then the couples get along together and then individually. And that's what happened with us. It was just. It's just awesome.
- [04:54]
John Fuller
But not only that, there's a story about your dog, right, Walker? I mean, we gotta get the dog story in here. So it's not just you guys bonding, but somehow the dog plays a role in this.
- [05:05]
Walker Hayes
This is my favorite part of the story because I got to unload the worst dog ever. And yeah, Craig saw it as an answered prayer.
- [05:14]
Craig Cooper
It Actually was.
- [05:15]
John Fuller
Yeah, let's explain that.
- [05:16]
Craig Cooper
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:17]
Walker Hayes
Which, again, when I was an unbeliever, I was like, so sucker. But, yeah, we would. They. You know, we were so. We were so. Our lives were just meshed, you know, like a. Like a tapestry, you know, and interwoven. And our kids hung out, and we would be at Craig's house, and we had. I had two golden doodles. Made the mistake of getting two. You know, when you go to pick up your puppy, one was remarkable, and one is. Is literally the Satan version of dog.
- [05:49]
John Fuller
Hey, Craig, here's a dog for you.
- [05:52]
Walker Hayes
And so Craig. We're at Craig's house, and Craig's daughter's like, I want to do.
- [05:56]
Lainey Hayes
You know.
- [05:57]
Walker Hayes
And I was like, bro, I have a dog. Craig knew that we had two. And I was like, bro, I'll give you one. It's ready to go, man. I was like, here's the receipt.
- [06:10]
John Fuller
A bag of Purina.
- [06:11]
Craig Cooper
Oh, gosh.
- [06:12]
Walker Hayes
I was like, I'll put a bow around. I'll get it groomed before we give it to you. And Craig did. But it was actually remarkable. It was quite remarkable. The specifications. He basically outlined too many regulations.
- [06:28]
Craig Cooper
Seven different.
- [06:28]
John Fuller
Yeah, well, this is your daughter, right? So your daughter wants a dog. This is how this all meshed together. But you said, What?
- [06:35]
Craig Cooper
So she's 21 now. Our oldest daughter, Karis, she was 11 at the time, and. And she was. For her birthday, she was wanting a dog. We had had a terrible dog, a dog named Charlie, who was a beagle, who, like, this is when the kids were young and in diapers, and he would get into the trash can, pull the diapers out, the dirty diapers and rip them apart, the whole house. He was just bad. And we had given him away. And we had gone for five years without a dog. And so when Charis is asking, I'm like, baby girl, I love you, and we're just not a dog family, like. And she kept asking, kept persisting. And then I said, all right, look, there's about seven things that would have to happen for us to get a dog. You know, your mom's allergic, so it'd have to be hypoallergenic. It'd have to be free, because we don't have any money to buy a dog right now. Somebody would have to be willing to watch the dog when we're out of town, because we're not going to pay to crate the dog. It'd have to be Crate Train, potty Train, you know, and this. It's probably going to have to be like a labradoodle or something like that. And, you know, here's. I gave her all these stipulations. I was like, you're welcome to pray for it, but I just. I don't see it happening. Well, she took that list, and she started praying for it. So we've got them over to our house. It was the first time they were over. And that's when Laney's talking about their home life and these two dogs and. And all this kind of stuff and how they loved Noly Magnolia and how they just couldn't stand Tulip. You know, she's like, yeah, I mean, we'd love to find another home for this dog. And. And she's like, I mean, he's hypoallergenic. You know, he's crate trained. Or she. She's. I'm sorry. She's hypoallergenic. She's crate trained. She's probably trained. All this kind of stuff goes through all this. And then. And then she's like, I mean, we. We would actually even be willing to dog sit whenever a family goes out of town.
- [08:36]
John Fuller
Every answer she had.
- [08:37]
Craig Cooper
And, Mike, I had my fork.
- [08:38]
Walker Hayes
I just stopped.
- [08:40]
Craig Cooper
My mouth was open. And I think Laney smelled blood. And she's like, do y' all want to take the dog? And I'm like, well. And she said, just for a trial, like, try. Why don't you take Tulip for the weekend? See if y' all like it. Well, we fell in love with Tulip, and Tulip bonded us, our families together. Because anytime they went out of town, we watched Noly. Anytime we went out of town, they watched Tulip. And, you know, Tulip, actually, she died of cancer a little bit after Walker came to Faith in Christ. Wow. And I thought, well, you did your job on Earth. Yeah, that's. I think that's why she was here.
- [09:20]
John Fuller
That is so sweet.
- [09:21]
Craig Cooper
Isn't that crazy? Yeah.
- [09:23]
John Fuller
Walker, let me ask you. Let me bring you in, because, you know, you're on the other end of this relationship going, okay, who is this guy? You ended up years later writing a song, and you named it after Craig. I mean, that's pretty cool. Yeah, Just a couple of the lines out of there, and maybe we could link to the website on your website and people could listen to it.
- [09:44]
Walker Hayes
Oh, yeah. I wrote Craig a song just because I did not know how to thank him for his gift of a van. My wife and I had one car, and we would drive everywhere in the Honda. And if a cop drove by I would yell, cop. And all my kids would dive onto the floorboard to hide from the cop. I didn't have enough seatbelts. So we, you know, and we probably. My wife was usually holding a baby, you know, in the front seat and not proud of this, but this is. That's where we were in life. And Craig knew this. And, you know, I was so proud and never would have said, hey, can I get some help, you know, from somebody? But, you know, Craig again, back to the trust. You know, for some reason I trusted Craig, you know, and he knew these things about us. And he shows up at my son's baseball game one night and hops out of his own van and he has the keys and the title to this car. And I'm not going to lie, it infuriated me. I mean, you would think a smart human would go, oh, my goodness, thank you, thank you for this gift. But I was embarrassed. I was unwilling to admit that I needed such a wonderful gift. I felt like accepting the car, was throwing in the towel, you know, on myself. And just in the rudest way, I probably said like, oh, I'll borrow it, you know, or whatever, because I didn't want to give him the satisfaction of being a hero. A of all, he was a Christian. I didn't want some Jesus guy saving the day, you know. And so anyway, reluctantly, I drove the car home. And I remember looking in the rearview and seeing my kids buckling up. And I remember something softened in my heart. And it. Honestly, if you, if you listen to the song Craig, you can hear a non believer not mentioning the name of Jesus on purpose in the song, being confused by the love of a neighbor, basically just going, hey, I don't know what this guy's got, but it's pretty perplexing that this man shows up and supports me. Even though my hymns, my songs don't belong in a hymnal. Even though he knows my story, there's no benefit in knowing a person like me. I will not help you up some ladder at all. You do not benefit by knowing me or my family or the mess we're in. Yet he is willing to jump in and sacrificially give us the car out of his garage. And so that's what the song Craig was about. And again, I didn't run to Jesus that night. I just didn't know how to thank Craig. And honestly, writing him a song was pretty awkward. I mean, there were many times where I was like, I'm writing this dude a song. And I was like, lainey, is this weird? And thank goodness Laney sent it. Laney texted the song to Craig, so it was kind of out of my hands.
- [12:55]
John Fuller
No, that's good. And, you know, this morning when I was reading the prep and reading your book, and Jean and I, we played the song, she's crying.
- [13:04]
Walker Hayes
Oh, man.
- [13:05]
John Fuller
And I started crying. So I don't know who to blame, you or you? I'm blaming both for tears this morning. But it's very touching. We'll link to that. So, Craig, you're sitting there, neighbor man, and you're going, okay, Lord, this is interesting. What kind of conversation are you having with God about this?
- [13:24]
Craig Cooper
Yeah, I mean, I had regularly prayed, you know, specific things for Walker, that the Lord would bless his music. I would stand outside of Puckett's Boathouse. That was a Walker Wednesday nights when he would play, and I would tell him, dude, mark my words, you're going to pack stadiums. And I believed it. Like, I really believe that with all my heart. I would also pray, God, you've gifted him so. Because I knew it was from the Lord, like the gifts that he'd given to my friend. But I was like, lord, please use his gift of songwriting and music to draw his attention to you and draw people's attention to you through things he's written. And, you know, there was an inkling, I think, when he sent the song Craig, that came to me in a moment where we were five years into the church plant. I was feeling like, is anything happening here? And I was really discouraged at that particular moment. I was a bi vocational pastor at this point. I'd been full time before, but this time I was holding down basically two different jobs to do ministry. And I took a walk in downtown Franklin in the square, and I poured my heart out to God. Then I remember stopping in the middle of the. You know, on Main street, and I just said, God, I need you to encourage me. Do you have me where you want me? Is my life making any difference to anybody around me? You know, I try to encourage other people. Would you please encourage me? And I had sent an email to the pastoral team saying, I think I might be done. I wasn't seeing any fruit. And that was the moment that Laney sent the song Craig, which happened a long time after we gave the van. I mean, that's probably a year.
- [15:27]
Walker Hayes
Oh, yeah, a year.
- [15:28]
Craig Cooper
I mean, it may be a year and a half, two years after.
- [15:30]
John Fuller
But that was the timing. At your low point.
- [15:34]
Craig Cooper
Boom, My low point. We were on a date in Cool Springs in Franklin, and we're sitting in our car, and I'm telling my wife how discouraged I am. And that's when the phone bust, and it was from Laney. And I. I remember being a little irritated because I like, hey, babe, who's that? Yeah. And she said, it's Lainey. And I said, can you please tell Lane that we're on a date? You know, that you'll hit her back later? I'm. I just trying to tell you how discouraged I am. I kind of need you right now. And she said, well, it's got a. It's got a file on. It's got an MP3. And we were accustomed to getting that from Walker. He would send songs he'd written, and we loved everything he wrote. I mean, he's just a brilliant songwriter. But she said, this. This one has your name on it. It says, Craig, I think we need to play it. And I. I pushed back because he writes funny songs, too, and. And I didn't know what kind of song this was, and I wasn't in the mood for it. I was like, we'll play it later. And she persisted, and it went through the speakers. And that's when I heard. I met Craig at a church called Redeeming Grace. It's like he understood my I don't want to be here face. I felt out of place. I smelled like beer. He just shook my hand, said, I'm glad you're here. And then he goes through. And when he got to the chorus, it's all about my relationship with Jesus. And I just lost it. I was bawling, and I was speechless. And it felt like, you know Zephaniah 3, where it says, the Lord your God is in your midst, a mighty one who will save. He will rejoice over you with gladness. He'll quiet you with his love. He will exalt over you with loud singing. And that was what happened to me, is I felt like the Holy Spirit was singing over me through my atheist, unbelieving friend.
- [17:32]
John Fuller
That's just how God will do it.
- [17:34]
Craig Cooper
And I was literally floored, blown away. And then I felt like, okay, okay, Lord, you have me where you want me. I surrender. That was the first time when I thought, man, God's doing something in Walker's life. And I went and told the family, God's doing something in Walker's life. Let's pray that God saves him.
- [17:57]
John Fuller
Walker, let me continue with you in the book. You share how you and Laney had this recurring, I guess, argument about Jesus. That's a Good thing. In fact, during one late night conversation, I think you said to your wife, then prove it to me. Prove that the gospel can change someone's life.
- [18:18]
Walker Hayes
Yeah.
- [18:19]
John Fuller
Wow. That is a daring statement.
- [18:21]
Jim Daly
Oh, the Lord.
- [18:22]
John Fuller
You know, the Lord is waiting for you to say that.
- [18:24]
Walker Hayes
Oh, man. Yeah.
- [18:26]
John Fuller
I mean, I just think he's ready when somebody says that. Here we go.
- [18:30]
Walker Hayes
Yeah. You know, I would. This was following the loss of our seventh child. So I was just crushed. You know, we lost our seventh. She was a stillborn, and just. I was confused. I, I. I felt like an idiot getting up every night and singing song, you know, I just didn't feel. I don't know, man. I just. Was just despair. That's. I just. I was confused. And, you know, for once in my life, I could look at something and go, I don't have the answers, kids. Laney, I don't know how to make you smile anymore. I don't know how to make me smile, you know? And I would. I would try to do good things. I would try to go, hey, it's about my fans. I'm gonna make it about them. And I could only be good for seven seconds. You know, as soon. As soon as I said that, before I finished the imma be good sentence, I was selfish or bored or, you know, and I. And I. And I called Laney one night, and I did. I said, give me an example. Please. Give me an example of a transformer, like a nasty person who is truly transformed by the gospel on this side of heaven. And she said, paul. And I said, you're cheating. You know, I said, he's in the book. You know, he's in the manual. You can't use one of those.
- [19:59]
John Fuller
Those are excluded.
- [20:00]
Craig Cooper
Yeah.
- [20:00]
Walker Hayes
I was like, no disciples allowed.
- [20:03]
John Fuller
And you had some rules here.
- [20:05]
Walker Hayes
I did. I was very. But, you know. And, you know, Laney and I. I'm so grateful for a relationship where, I mean, we definitely argued, but that was a cry, you know, I was. You know, I was begging her. Just. I was just confused, and I was in need. You know that statement that you said, I made, Delaney, show me someone. I think that was my version of saying, man, I just want to be trans. I need. I need a savior.
- [20:34]
John Fuller
Did you get an answer to that, either from Lainey or somebody?
- [20:36]
Craig Cooper
You know what?
- [20:37]
Walker Hayes
I actually did, and it was from a book that I read, and it was from, of all things. It was crazy. Laney used to go to this Bible study called Flourish, and she. I would jokingly make fun of. I would be like, you're going to go to your girls group tonight. You know, you're going to go Flourish. And she would go to this girls group and somebody shared with her a book called Secrets of an Unlikely Convert by Rosario Butterfield.
- [21:06]
John Fuller
I know she's a friend, Rosario Butterfield.
- [21:09]
Walker Hayes
And honestly, I couldn't even. I was struck. Like I. When I met her, Craig laughed because I didn't know what to say. I was such a geek. But I've heard her speak since. But I. She shared me that book. I got it on my phone. And I read her testimony overnight on a bus. I didn't go to bed. I just read her testimony. And our testimonies and our pride and the feeling of driving up to a church and holding a bulletin.
- [21:41]
John Fuller
Her.
- [21:43]
Walker Hayes
Her insecurities and her fears and anger in those situations were so similar to mine. Our testimonies were so similar. I just hadn't surrendered. I just hadn't said, yes, correct. Whatever you are, whoever you are, will you please have me? You know, and. And I didn't do that. And so when I got home from that show, I finished that book and I snuck into a Barnes and Noble with my hoodie on and I bought a Bible and I took it home.
- [22:17]
John Fuller
In the dark of night.
- [22:19]
Walker Hayes
I did. I was so, so stuck in my. Just not gonna go there. I didn't want my wife to know. I hid it in the bag. It lived in the white bag behind a picture in our living room.
- [22:35]
John Fuller
Wow.
- [22:35]
Walker Hayes
And I would wake up and read and just devour it. And I. And I began to read about all these idiots just like me. That God.
- [22:45]
John Fuller
Exactly right.
- [22:46]
Walker Hayes
And you know what? For the first time in my life, I read the scriptures as those guys not being heroes, that God was the hero, that they were just like me and failing left and right, he would continue to rescue them. And one day I told my wife and I said, I just want. I believe. I'm in. I'm 100%. And then we met them at a sushi restaurant. And I was like, bro. I was like, I don't even. I'm ignorant. I don't even know how to explain what I desire, you know, but I. I believe. And that was the change.
- [23:27]
Craig Cooper
Oh, that's the difference.
- [23:29]
John Fuller
It was for people.
- [23:30]
Lainey Hayes
That.
- [23:30]
John Fuller
That is so good. Because, you know, I remember doing a catechism at a church in San Diego. And that was how they said it. They said the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit is a changed life. And that's what you went through. That's what you experienced. You even in the dark of night. It's so funny. I mean, the Lord comes after us in all kinds of ways. I love the fact that you just said, prove it to me. It wasn't just your wife hearing that. It was the Lord hearing that. It was, okay, son, I'm going to.
- [23:59]
Jim Daly
Prove it to you.
- [24:00]
John Fuller
And here I come. What was the period of time between that night that you laid that out there? Give me an example of where somebody's life was changed from the gospel to when you were sneaking reading the Bible in your house.
- [24:14]
Walker Hayes
Oh, goodness.
- [24:15]
John Fuller
Is that a couple of years, a year?
- [24:17]
Walker Hayes
No, no, no. That was, I mean, I'd say it was a matter of reading scripture for maybe a month or two, just soaking it up.
- [24:25]
John Fuller
What an amazing story, you guys. This is incredible. And man, I just want to say thank you so much for being here to share this story. This is.
- [24:34]
Craig Cooper
Thank you for having us.
- [24:35]
Walker Hayes
Oh, it's awesome.
- [24:36]
John Fuller
Thanks for being here.
- [24:39]
Jim Daly
This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And I'm John Fuller. And we just heard the conclusion of a two part conversation with Craig Cooper and Walker Hayes as they described their rather unusual friendship of more than 20 years. Craig and Walker have written a terrific book called glad you'd're two unlikely friends Breaking bread and Fences. We'll send a copy of that book to you when you make a monthly pledge of any amount to the ministry of Focus. That's our way of saying thank you for stepping up and partnering with us to strengthen and support families. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family, 800-232-6459 or donate and request that book when you click the link in the show notes.
- [25:24]
John Fuller
And if I may, let me remind you why monthly pledge is so important right now. Every year, hundreds, I mean literally hundreds of thousands of people, married couples, parents, single adults, teens, will contact us for some kind of help. And here's a little interesting fact. About 1% of the listenership to Focus on the Family supports us financially. And we could do so much more. Think if we could make that millions of people that we're helping together. Let me give you an example. Over the last 12 months, we assisted more than a half a million couples who wanted to build stronger and healthier marriages. We also equipped more than 670,000 moms and dads to improve their parenting skills and strengthen the bonds within their homes. And we estimate our resources and outreach efforts help nearly 300,000 people make a decision to follow Christ. That's pretty good.
- [26:20]
Craig Cooper
It is.
- [26:21]
John Fuller
But again, thank you to that 1% that are helping because we couldn't do it without you. Generous, ongoing support of friends like you make all of this possible. And when we work together, God can do amazing things like I just mentioned.
- [26:35]
Jim Daly
Yeah. So please consider a monthly pledge today or a one time gift, whatever you can afford. It'll really help. Again, our number, 800, the letter A and the word family or donate online and the links are in the show notes. And by the way, if your summer travel has you coming anywhere near Colorado Springs, please stop by and see our welcome center, our soda shop, a great, terrific area for kids called Wit's End. There's so much here and we'd love to say hi for now on behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
- [27:23]
Lainey Hayes
If the fights with your spouse have become unbearable, if you feel like you can't take it anymore, there's still hope. Hope Restored Marriage Intensives have helped thousands of couples like yours. Our biblically based counseling will help you find the root of your problems and face them together. Call us at 1-866-875-2915. We'll talk with you, pray with you, and help you find out which program will work best. That's 1-866-875-2915.