Tips for Building a Healthy Family (Part 1 of 2)

Summary

Podcast Summary

Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Episode: Tips for Building a Healthy Family (Part 1 of 2)

Air Date: May 26, 2026
Guests: Dr. Gary Chapman & Dr. Shannon Warden
Host(s): Jim Daly and John Fuller

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jim Daly and John Fuller are joined by Dr. Gary Chapman (renowned for the “Five Love Languages” series) and Dr. Shannon Warden (professor, counselor, and author). Together, they discuss practical, biblically grounded ways to “build” a strong, healthy family using analogies drawn from home improvement shows and their new book, The DIY Guide to Building a Family: 12 Tools for Improving Your Home Life. The conversation focuses on identifying and applying “DIY” (Do It Yourself) principles to marriage, parenting, and overall family dynamics, emphasizing personal responsibility, humility, and intentional relationship-building.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Home Improvement Analogy for Family Life

• The popularity of home renovation shows inspired the analogy: just like homes, families need “repairs” and a blueprint for growth.
  • Dr. Shannon Warden: “Those shows have a way of making you think, yes, we can. ... It was just a natural fit.” (03:16)
• Audience is reminded that family improvement requires active participation from all members and intentionality, not passivity or just waiting for problems to fix themselves.
• DIY Mindset: Success comes from “rolling up your sleeves”—active participation, not outsourcing or expecting change without effort.
  • Dr. Gary Chapman: “They have to be all in. And then they bring the kids in, because it has to be an all in project if we’re going to really make progress.” (05:54)

Overview of the Book’s “12 Tools” for Family Well-being

• The book provides practical “tools”:
  • Communication
  • Sharing responsibilities
  • Having fun together
  • Showing kindness, gratitude, love, and more
    (04:23, Dr. Shannon Warden)
• Chapman notes the importance of “replacing grumbling with gratitude.” (04:55)

The Importance of Time and “Budgeting” for Family Improvement

• Unlike home repairs which require money, family improvement requires a commitment of time and consistent effort.
  • Dr. Gary Chapman: “We don’t have to give money; we have to give time. It won’t just happen.” (08:43)

Encouraging Family Feedback and Participation

• Suggestion: Engage all family members—including children—in identifying areas for improvement.
  • Dr. Gary Chapman: “Let every family member just share things that they would like to see improved in our family.” (09:18)
• Most families “just go”—they’re too busy or assume parents must have all the answers. But children often have insight into what needs attention if given the opportunity. (09:46)

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In-Depth: Key Tools Examined

1. Confronting Selfishness

• Selfishness is recognized as a core problem in families due to human nature.
  • Dr. Shannon Warden: “It’s my native instinct… So there the five of us are trying to coexist.” (10:26)
• Solution: Take inventory individually and as a family of where selfishness appears, and open up honest dialogue about it.
• Example: A humorous but honest discussion about sharing bathroom space exemplifies both daily and deeper dimensions of self-centeredness in marriage and family life. (11:25)
• Deeper lesson: Move from the “mine” mentality to a shared, “eternity focus” in marriage. (11:41)
• Dr. Gary Chapman: “Kindness is words and actions that enhance the other person’s life. Well, selfishness is the opposite of that.” (13:04)

Memorable Family Story

• Dr. Warden’s Story: Daughter Presley accused her of “lying” for promising to play but failing to follow through. Warden used it as an opportunity for honest apology and modeling humility. (15:05)
• Dr. Shannon Warden: “Presley said, ‘Mama, I think you’re lying to me.’ ... I said, Presley, you know what? You’re right, and I’m sorry.” (15:23)

2. Combating Apathy

• Defined as taking one another for granted; particularly dangerous in marriages and parent-child relationships.
  • Dr. Shannon Warden: “Apathy for us is taking each other for granted. ... It’s so easy.” (17:23)
• Solution: Re-engage intentionally through attention, asking, and listening.
• Dr. Gary Chapman introduces the Five Love Languages as an antidote to apathy:
  • Words of Affirmation
  • Receiving Gifts
  • Quality Time
  • Acts of Service
  • Physical Touch
• Emphasis is placed on learning and meeting the unique love language of each family member.
  • Dr. Gary Chapman: “You can discover a child’s love language by the time they’re 4 years old.” (20:21)

3. Addressing Resentment

• Unaddressed hurts build up like “termites in a home,” leading to bitterness and relational decay.
  • Dr. Gary Chapman: “Resentment turns to bitterness, and bitterness turns to hatred. ... Eventually we get to the place where we say, ‘I’m out of here.’” (21:22)
• Solution: Daily confession, apology, and forgiveness. Forgiveness is fundamental to healthy families.
  • Dr. Gary Chapman: “A happy marriage is the union of two good forgivers.” (22:01)
  • Encourage apologizing for even a small part—“Apologize for your 5%.” (22:22)
• Dr. Shannon Warden’s Three-Step Forgiveness Plan:
  1. Acknowledge the need—be honest about what’s broken.
  2. Take accountability—practice humility and self-reflection.
  3. Commit to ongoing change—forgiveness and healing are processes, not one-time acts.
     (23:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jim Daly: “I would be really good at tearing down the wall … Now to put it back together makes me really nervous.” (03:37)
• Dr. Gary Chapman: “We’re either getting better or worse. We’re not standing still.” (06:35)
• Dr. Gary Chapman (on forgiveness): “A happy marriage is the union of two good forgivers.” (22:01)
• Dr. Shannon Warden (on humility in forgiveness): “It’s honestly just a matter of humility, of awareness, and then just actually doing something. Not expecting this is going to happen by itself.” (24:53)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:16 — Introduction & Home Improvement Analogy
• 02:44 — Book Introduction and the “12 Tools”
• 05:54 — Why “DIY” Commitment is Crucial in Families
• 08:43 — Budgeting for Family Improvement: Time not Money
• 10:26 — Tackling Selfishness in the Family
• 15:05 — Story: Modeling Openness and Apology with Children
• 17:23 — Addressing Apathy: The Importance of Not Taking Each Other for Granted
• 18:15 — Overview of the Five Love Languages
• 21:22 — Handling Resentment: The Termite Analogy
• 22:01 — “A happy marriage is the union of two good forgivers.”
• 23:43 — Dr. Warden’s Three-Step Plan for Forgiveness

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Next Episode Preview

Dr. Chapman and Dr. Warden will return for Part 2 to discuss building trust, letting go of control, and having more fun together as a family.

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Summary Tone

The conversation is friendly, often light-hearted, and filled with practical wisdom, vivid metaphors, and spiritual encouragement. Both hosts and guests use personal stories and gentle humor to keep the message relatable and encouraging for Christian families of all backgrounds.

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For more information, practical tools, and support, visit focusonthefamily.com

Transcript

[Focus on the Family Announcer]

Chatgpt and AI can offer you ideas and attempt to give you answers, but it can't listen with compassion, pray with you, or guide you with wisdom shaped by faith. When life feels overwhelming, real human connection matters. At Focus on the Family, we believe in the power of professional help and biblical wisdom. That's why we offer a free confidential consultation with a caring Christian counselor to walk with you through life's struggles. Whether you're navigating challenges in marriage, parenting anxiety, grief or something else, our counselors are here to help. If you're hurting, don't wait. Hope is real and healing begins with a conversation. Request your free confidential consultation today. Call 1-800-A-FILY. That's 1-800-232-6459 or visit focusonthefamily.com gethelp that's focusonthefamily.com.

[John Fuller]

Today on FOCUS on the FAMILY with Jim Dailey, we'll explore something a bit unusual, a Do It Yourself family building project. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.

[Jim Daly]

That's right, John. You know, these home improvement shows are very popular today. Have you seen them?

[John Fuller]

You can't avoid them. They're everywhere.

[Jim Daly]

I'm trying to avoid them.

[John Fuller]

I'm at my dentist's office and they're

[Jim Daly]

on right fixing up a place, you know, plumbing, it's scares the daylights out of me, man. I'm telling you what, I just can't do that stuff very well. Usually Gene ends up showing me how to do it. That's very embarrassing to say on national radio.

[John Fuller]

Duct tape is our savior.

[Jim Daly]

Duct tape works great. You just put it everywhere. But those home improvement shows are very popular and people love the idea of that perfect home, right? The fixer upper that looks just right, putting all the pieces together, but it's intimidating. Like I said, when it comes to family improvement, I'm all in. That's what Focus on the Family is about. We want to build strong and healthy families. Families. It's what we're trying to do each and every day here at Focus on the Family. And that's why I'm thrilled about our special guests who will help you today tackle this topic of home improvement.

[John Fuller]

Dr. Gary Chapman is here. He's been on this broadcast many times before. He's an award winning author and speaker, a counselor and radio host and is probably best known for his series of books addressing the five love languages concept. And also with us, Dr. Shannon Worden, who who is a professor of counseling, an author and a blogger. And she's been counseling families for more than 20 years. And together they've written a book called the DIY Guide to Building a Family that 12 Tools for Improving youg Home Life. And we've got details about that on the website.

[Jim Daly]

Gary, welcome back.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Thank you.

[Jim Daly]

Good to have you.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Great to be back.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. Shannon, great to welcome you for the first time.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Thank you, Jim.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. So good. Okay, so where did you come up with this idea of a family building project and what are you trying to help families accomplish?

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

It was Shannon's idea.

[Jim Daly]

Okay, good. Even if it's unpopular, I do watch all those shows. That's funny. They do. There is something special about them. I mean, we're wired. We want to do it better. Right. When it comes to our homes, they're inspiring.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Like most anything, I think we look at the other people doing it, we think we'll never get there. Those shows, though, have a way of making you think, yes, we can. And you know, this man here has taught me a lot. Just been a great mentor and friend of me in the area of family improvement and home life improvement. And it was just a natural fit. I said, what do you think about this idea? He said, I love it. And we just took it from there.

[Jim Daly]

Well, there's, you know, the analogy. I don't know how far you take that analogy. I would be really good at like tearing down the wall. You know, I could do a lot with a sledgehammer and frankly, that would be a lot of fun. Now to put it back together makes me really nervous. Does that indicate something?

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Well, you know, I think in family life you do have to get rid of some things. You're gonna make it better. So you've got. That's a part of it now you're speaking about that. Let this thing go so we can put something in its place.

[Jim Daly]

Okay, you've identified 12 tools for improving family life. Now, of course, you guys, we're not talking about, you know, the best plumbing and the kitchen redo. We're talking about your family, you know, your marriage, your kids, and how to do the best job you can do. So give us a quick overview of these 12 tools.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

We cover a lot of the basics that you would expect in family life. If you look at your family life today, you're going to see how is it we're communicating with each other? How is it we're sharing responsibilities? How is it that we're having fun? This man here obviously wrote the book and books on love languages. We talk about that just in your day to day look around and you'd Think what, you know, what are those tools that we need? These are the tools we're writing on. Kindness, sharing, consideration, communication, love, fun down the board.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Replacing grumbling with gratitude. That's good.

[Jim Daly]

Is that easy to do?

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

We're gonna spend extra time with you today, Jim.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Oh, excellent. Thank you.

[Jim Daly]

I tend to be on the high side. It's just so funny. We had some water damage through our house and it peeled those window covers. Window wells. So it peeled one away. And I was out with this guy talking about how to get this repaired, and the guy says, well, this is a DIY job. I went into Gene, I said, hey, do you know what DIY means? Because I didn't confess, guy. I didn't even know what do it yourself the acronym meant. And that was only like six years ago.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Well, if we said, you know, because you'd be familiar with the expression, if you want something done well, you've got to do it yourself.

[John Fuller]

Pay somebody else to do it, John.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Cooperate, man. No, do it well. Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

For the harder jobs.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Yes. Trust me, I can't do all of that.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, that's your first point. The diy, which I know. Now. Do it yourself. Why is that critical?

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Well, I think because in a family, if the couple do not decide, we want to have a better relationship between us and between our children, because we're dealing with children here, not just parents and not just the marriage, but improving the whole family life. But they have to be on board. They have to be all in. And then they bring the kids in because it has to be an all in project if we're going to really make progress.

[Jim Daly]

And it is a good illustration because if you're going to redo your home, you got to roll up your sleeves and you get in there and you do the fun things that we're talking about with our marriages and with our parenting, we kind of expect it just to either come naturally or that we'll know what to do when it hits us. Often there's no game plan.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to give a game plan if you really would like to have a better relationship in your family. And who wouldn't? I mean, we're either getting better or worse. We're not standing still. And most of us would like to have better family relationships. So let's get a plan and then let's implement the plan. And so this book kind of gives them a plan on these basic areas. And we're excited about it because we think it's Very practical. And couples can do it, you know, not alone. You gotta have God's help in the whole process.

[Jim Daly]

Absolutely. You speak very specifically about change taking time. You know, we're pretty impatient, too. We want that. Well, frankly, I'd pay the guy to come in and do it. That's how impatient I am. Can you get the leak fixed, like, right now?

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Like, let's just pay Dr. Gary Chapman to come around the world and fix your homes. I know it. Wouldn't that be great?

[Jim Daly]

So that application to a family leak, how do we as the adults in the home, as the parents, how do we step back and remain patient while these changes occur?

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Well, as Dr. Chapman is saying, we've got to do it ourselves. I can't wait on my husband. Steven. Steven, you do it first, and then I will do it. He's a great husband, great dad, and he does take the lead in a lot of things. But there are moments instead of blaming him. I need to look at Shannon. Shannon, what do I need to do in this area? So I've got a DIY then, as Dr. Chapman, you're saying there. We've got a DIY together. I like something else. We need to, I think, reiterate. There is. These are affordable repairs. You know, you. We bounce back and forth. Obviously, that's what the book is about, is the home life and home improvement metaphor. So we bounce back and forth from relationship to the metaphor of home improvement, but these are affordable fixes. You know, this is not. My relationships don't need to be 1995 relationships. And that means keeping up with our kids and how they're developing and continuing to nurture our marriage and reading, taking classes with this man right here. Right. To keep us fresh and moving forward in our relationships.

[Jim Daly]

Well, that's interesting. Like the budget.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

I mean, if you. Again that metaphor. You have a budget for repairs. What's your budget for your family and improving your family? How do you explain a budget for that stuff?

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Well, I think the budget basically involves time. We don't have to give time.

[Jim Daly]

That's it.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

It won't just happen. We'll have to make some changes. And in order to make changes, you have to stop doing some things so you can do other things. But what I really like about the whole thing is the big reveal, right?

[Jim Daly]

That's it.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

You know, we. At our home, in the last five years, we've remodeled two bathrooms. Now, I did not. I didn't do it myself, okay? But I was still involved in the whole process. But, man, when you get to see the big reveal. It is nice. Yeah, it looks really great.

[Jim Daly]

If you chose wisely.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

If you chose wisely. Right. And so I think if we can just realize that things can be better. And one of the things we suggest in the book is let every family member just share things that they would like to see improved in our family. Let the kids share. And what do we complain about in our family?

[Jim Daly]

Why do we either not think of that or we don't take time to solicit that kind of input? I mean, that's a brilliant idea. I don't know anybody who's doing that, really.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

We're so busy. We just go, is it really just that going, going and not thinking about things. And then I think also as parents, sometimes we feel like, well, we've got to have all the answers. Well, we need to know what our kids are thinking and they can tell us, why do you guys argue so much? If we really let them know, what would you like to see different in our family? They'll tell you, wow, that's encouraging.

[Jim Daly]

You've got 12. We're not going to be able to touch on all of these, but we'll touch on a few today and tomorrow. But let's start with the first one, selfishness, which, you know. Yeah, that covers a lot of ground. Why is this selfishness? Why is it so critical in families today?

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

It's my native instinct. My human instinct, I suppose, is to be self centered, self focused. And so now there's not just me and my family of five, but there are four other people whose instinct, our sin nature is to be self centered, self focused. So there the five of us are trying to coexist. And as we're talking about here, busy our minds on all sorts of other things, including that's my toy, or this is my side of the bathroom countertop, or that's your duty to wash the dishes and empty the dishwasher. So it really becomes a mind mentality. And that defeats a lot of the good relationship building that we're talking about here. So conscious awareness of it, taking a little assessment, hey, where are we being selfish? So that's something, you know, a listener would want to do here is, you know, and someone who's reading the book, where am I being selfish? Just taking that account, that inventory now, noticing the family. And then Dr. Hammond, as you were saying, just being open to the conversation. Let's get to work on it now.

[Jim Daly]

You kind of highlight that shared bathroom issue. I was always careful to try to live in a place where we had enough bathroom space. Not always achieving that, but kind of give us that deeper example of the shared bathroom.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Well, what I'm thinking of here is just mine and Steven as the leader of the family. How are we sharing our time with each other? For one, how are we sharing who it is we are in this life together? I heard a lady at church, she was teaching recently, and she was talking about an eternity view of marriage. Instead of being focused on the now, which is a mind mentality, ultimately, how is this helping me? How is this going to work out for me? She was talking about having an eternity focus on marriage and on relationship. And what is God doing in Steven's life? What is it? Why did he bring us together? Yeah, it was to bring these three kids into the world, but what else? How am I partnering with Stephen to accomplish God's goals and he with me, that at the root could be a selfishness issue if my heart, my mind is all about me and not about Stephen. So that is a little bit more of the deeper. It's not just the sharing of the sinks, but it's let's share the space in this life and make each other better.

[Jim Daly]

Well, now I'm feeling convicted because when we bought our house, we're in. Now I purposely look for two sinks. Maybe I was avoiding hitting the selflessness effect. I just covered up. Yeah, I thought two sinks was a great solution. Now we can both be selfish.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

I gotta tell you, I do like two sinks. I think, you know, there's a practical matter here as well. I don't want to sound like we're just using one small section of a

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

family of five, but, you know, this whole thing of kindness. I define kindness as words and actions that enhance the other person's life. Well, selfishness is the opposite of that. I'm right. I want my way rather than thinking in terms of how can I speak to them in a way that's going to encourage them and help them. If you listen to our expressions that are not kind, almost always, they grow out of selfishness. You didn't do this, you didn't do that. Why did you do that? Or why did you do that? From our perspective, they did wrong. And so we're giving them harsh words rather than kind words. So if we really care and want to enhance their lives, we try to speak words that are positive that will encourage them.

[Jim Daly]

Fixing selfishness, which is the one topic we're talking about right now, it definitely takes time. You have a story about a couple named Jeremy and Laurie who discovered that Their kids really engaged in the process. It's probably similar what you're saying, but what did Jeremy and Lori encounter?

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Well, I'm going to take this question because I didn't tell you about this, Dr. Chapman, but just in recent days, because I'm a busy mom, you know this. And I'm hustling around doing a lot of things as a lot of moms can relate to, a lot of dads, too, for that matter. But I kept promising Resley, kept saying, mama, are you going to play Barbies with me tonight? And I said, yes, I am. Well, I got busy working on something and I did, you know, a modified playing parents understand this. You know, you're kind of, in essence, tricking your kid. I'm not advocating this, but it, you know, it was a little best of both. It wasn't quite the full playing experience, but it was still playing well. So the next night, I had told her, presley, we are definitely going to play Barbies tonight. And we didn't quite get to it again. And she said, mama, now this. Some people are going to cringe when I say this. You're going to think, oh, you better discipline that child. But because of the Jeremy and Laurie story and because of what we're talking about here in the DIY guide, Presley said, mama, I think you're lying to me. Ouch. I mean, that hurts.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah. And it's a good thing, actually.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Some parents would kind of recoil at that and say, oh, no, you won't call me a liar. But it was the truth. And because we've made an open conversation of home life improvement in our home, I could receive that. And I said, presley, you know what? You're right, and I'm sorry.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Yeah.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

And which we talk about apology in the book as well. But she called me on it and I received it because I want her to see in me the model that God is putting forth. One that says, I hear you, and I'm responding.

[Jim Daly]

So what did happen to Jeremy and Laurie?

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Similar. Right? Similar. They had to say to their kids, we're going to start making an effort here around selfishness and around consideration of each other. Right. So the parents, again, they're taking the lead. They're diying, they're doing it themselves. And they're saying now to the children, we're going to do this all in, all together. What did that do? That opened up conversation. The kids started pointing out, hey, I feel like you're being a little disrespectful here, a little inconsiderate, calling them on it. And Jeremy and Laurie, they responded appropriately and went to work, made some changes. That's what we're doing. We're noticing what's not working in the home. Where are there some breakdowns? Let's not just notice it, let's do something about it.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

See, parents would not do this, normally ask their children to give them feedback. Correct. But if you're working on the project together and you realize this is a part of what we're doing now, so we want you to call us out and we're going to call you out because we want to change this. And that's what this couple did.

[Jim Daly]

Is it ever too late to invoke this? What about if you have 15, 16, 17 year olds in the home?

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Listen, they can be really helpful and they will be always honest.

[John Fuller]

Jim, if I can jump in here. So our youngest is 16 and he just recently had a very open conversation with us. And he called us on a couple of things. He said, I think you're keeping secrets from me. And we were able to talk to him about that. And just to. He was thinking about it is the point. So I think kids, they've already got the narrative going in their heads. Asking them to speak into it allows them to kind of unpack that and not take it in a direction that's unhealthy.

[Jim Daly]

Another chapter you had was on apathy. That one kind of caught me by surprise in terms of how families may struggle with apathy. So define apathy. Why is it a concern and where does it come from?

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Apathy for us is taking each other for granted. We especially focus on love, loving each other in that particular tool or chapter. It's so easy. You need only ask your spouse. Do you think I'm paying attention to you? Do you think I'm right? Just ask if you want the real answer.

[Jim Daly]

That's true with the kids, too.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Yeah. Oh, goodness, yeah, my kids, they let me know. Mama, is your phone more important than me? You're so verbal.

[Jim Daly]

You're so verbal. Go to your room.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

I'm going to my room and I'm gonna sit and think about that for a little bit.

[Jim Daly]

Gary, your solution for apathy is your five love languages. That concept, which is brilliant, by the way, for those who aren't familiar with it, give us the quick rundown. I can't believe someone has not heard of the five love languages.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Well, basically, there are five ways of expressing love on an emotional level. And if you want to build intimacy in a relationship and a real sense of connectedness and a Real sense of we love each other, which is the opposite of apathy. Then each of your family members has a primary love language. And here are the five words of affirmation. You really look nice in that outfit. I really appreciate what you did. Just looking for things that you can compliment the other person on. Receiving gifts. It's universal to give gifts as an expression of love. The gifts as they were thinking about me. And it doesn't have to be something expensive. You can pick up a feather taking a walk, a bird feather, and take it home and say to your spouse, honey, look what I found when I was walking. It reminded me, you are the wind beneath my wings. Girl, you're good. Cost a thing, gifts. And then there's quality time giving the person your undivided attention. And this is true with a marriage. This is true with children. This is what you were talking about, Shannon, when you said playing. Was it dolls?

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Barbies? Yeah.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Playing with your daughter. And she realized you weren't all there. So quality time means you give them your undivided attention. And then acts of service is doing something for the other person that, you know, they would like for you to do for the family. It might be washing dishes, it might be making beds and all those kind of things. And remember, children have things to do appropriate to their age and the family, because we all have jobs, and so we're doing things for each other. Acts of service and then physical touch. And we've long known the power of physical touch. That's why we pick up babies and hold them and kiss them and cuddle them. And the baby feels love before they even know what love is all about.

[Jim Daly]

I remember preparing for a broadcast with you years ago. And I think my youngest, Troy, was probably 4 or 5. And I remember going through. I was reading the material and he was in my lap, and I just asked him, you know, which one of these meet your needs? And I went through them. As soon as I said physical touch, he said, that's me, Daddy. That's the one I like. Just hugs. He loves hugs and tickling his arm and just that kind of thing.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

You can discover a child's love language by the time they're 4 years old, at least by the time they're 4. My son's love language is physical touch. When he was that age, I'd come home in the afternoon, he'd run to the door, grab my leg, and climb on me.

[Jim Daly]

That's right.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

He's touching me because he wants to be touched. Never did that at that age. She would Say, daddy, come to my room. I want to show you something. She wanted quality time. So the idea is that every family member has a primary language, and you want to speak that language fluently, and then you want to sprinkle in the other four.

[Jim Daly]

And again, to the whole point, it takes effort.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Effort, absolutely.

[Jim Daly]

And you can't knock down a wall. You can't redo your kitchen in the same way, you've got to spend time knowing what your love language and your kids love languages are, and your spouse. Let's examine another one. Resentment in a marriage and family. That's a serious one. And some of these have been fun, but in fact, you compare that to having termites in your home. Just to keep that analogy going. Why is resentment such a serious problem?

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

I think because what happens is when we hurt the other person or they disappoint us and we don't deal with it, we just hold it inside. And then we come to resent them because they did that to us. Or maybe we even lash out at them and tell them how horrible it is that they did, and they don't apologize or anything. And so we resent it. And resentment turns to bitterness, and bitterness turns to hatred. And eventually we get to the place where we say, I'm out of here. So dealing with issues when they happen. That's why I say apologizing and forgiving is absolutely essential to a healthy marriage. We can't just let things ride. We've got to deal with them.

[Jim Daly]

In fact, I love this saying you had in the book, Gary. You said, a happy marriage is the union of two good forgivers. And that is such a poignant sentence

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

because, you know, if we let it build up, it gets worse and worse and worse. And eventually we figure, you know, I can't take this anymore.

[Jim Daly]

You tend to forgive less and less.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Yeah, you do.

[Jim Daly]

When resentment builds up.

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

And we're not by nature apologizers because again, by nature we're selfish in our way. Is the right way. They're the ones that are wrong. They ought to be apologizing. And a lady said to me, she said, Dr. Chapman, I understand about apologizing, but what if he's the problem? You know, I said, okay, let's assume he's 95% of the problem. That would only leave 5% for you. Apologize for your 5%, you know, and let's see what happens. Apologize and then love him in his love language, and maybe something will happen inside of him.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah.

[John Fuller]

And what's the end of the story there?

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Well, what happens is we love God because God first loved us. So we love them by apologizing and loving them, even though they are not loving us. But love stimulates love. So she is influencing him in the best possible way.

[Jim Daly]

I think in the Christian space especially, we have neglected this. I mean, we talk about loving our neighbor as ourselves, as Jesus commanded us to do. This is one of the reasons we are not very effective and the Holy Spirit can't really work through us because we're wagging our finger and we're building up resentment toward others who don't think like us, behave like us, believe like us. Right?

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Yeah.

[Jim Daly]

And it's one of the core problems, I think, because love does crack the heart open of the other person. It's an amazing tool. Shannon, you have a three step plan, you call it for forgiveness. Let's hear it quick, because we need some forgiveness.

[Dr. Shannon Warden]

Well, you know, obviously you're going to have to acknowledge that there is this need there. Right. So that's that cracking through the wall or doing the demolition. We were talking know, it's. Let's just acknowledge this is happening. It's also, as Dr. Chapman is saying there, it's just taking some accountability and then it's kind of a continuing to monitor that process, that same process. I talk a lot in my counseling to folks about humility and compassion and this takes great humility. Somehow or another in our humanness and in our sinfulness, we think, I'm going to be this same house, if you will, the same person from now until whenever. And I think even in back to the home metaphor here, you know, some people think I'm going to build this house and never have to change it. I'm going to die in this house. And yet there's so many changes. That's not the God we serve. He's somebody who's changing us for the better all of the time requires humility, requires us to say, God, change me from the inside out, change me same. In this process of resentment and forgiveness is, hey, we've got to change. I'm willing to do my part. I'm not going to make you do your part, but I want you to know I'm willing to do my part. And we just, we got to start somewhere. We've got to get the process going. But it's honestly just a matter of humility, of awareness and then just actually doing something. Not expecting this is going to happen by itself, that we're actually going to have to put a little sweat equity into it.

[Jim Daly]

Yeah, it's so good. I mean both of you, Gary and Shannon, this book is filled with wonderful, rich content and I love your encouragement, advice. I love the metaphor to do the home improvement project. Unfortunately, we're out of time. We're already hit day one. So I want to come back next time and share more. Of the 12, we've only covered three, so we've barely made any headway. But it's been really insightful. I mean, I'm thinking, John, about going home tonight with Gene and Troy. Trent's in his own place now, but I'd love to sit down and talk to them about doing more of this. That's why I was kind of asking for a friend of mine. How late can you do this? But I think it's really valuable to open communication up. And so often we do let time kind of knock down the more important things in our relationship like honesty, humility, like you both said. And I'm eager to do it. I want to do it. And for our listeners, let me recommend to you that you get a copy of the DIY guide and for the slow folks like me a few months ago, that's Do It Yourself. That Do It Yourself guide to building a family lasts. I mean, it's easy to use. It kind of focuses you on that blueprint the plan for how to do this well. And let me tell you, we believe in this content so much. If you'll make a monthly pledge of any amount to focus on the family, we'll send you this book as our way of saying thank you. We really need more monthly partners who will stand with us financially so that together we can meet the ongoing needs of families who contact us. According to our research, over the past 12 months we've helped. You've helped more than 360,000 moms and dads improve their parenting skills, build closer bonds within their family, and pass on their faith to their children. That is great news and I'm so thankful for the generosity of our donors who help support the ministry. You can be a part of our family building team. We'll provide the labor and you provide the resources we need to construct healthy and godly families like we've talked about today. So a monthly pledge will be great. Or a one time gift. Whatever you can afford. Everything helps.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. Join the support team today with your gift and get Dr. Chapman and Shannon Warden's book When youn Call 800 the Letter A in the word family or donate when you click the link in the show notes.

[Jim Daly]

Gary and Shannon, let's come back next time to continue the conversation. We still need to hit topics like building trust, letting go of control. Did I say that? Letting go of control, man, why did we do that on day two? We should have covered that today and having really more fun together, which is great as a family. Can we do it?

[Dr. Gary Chapman]

Love to.

[Jim Daly]

All right.

[John Fuller]

Well, thanks for joining us today for FOCUS on THE Family with Jim Bailey. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as the conversation continues and we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

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