Understanding the Spiritual Impact of Healthy Living (Part 1 of 2)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Understanding the Spiritual Impact of Healthy Living

Podcast Information:

• Title: Focus on the Family with Jim Daly
• Host/Author: Focus on the Family
• Description: Every episode offers compassionate, biblical guidance for Christian families, addressing marriage, parenting, and spiritual growth.
• Episode: Understanding the Spiritual Impact of Healthy Living
• Release Date: January 9, 2025

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Introduction

In the January 9, 2025 episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, hosts Jim Daly and John Fuller delve into the intricate relationship between physical health and spiritual well-being. The episode features Gary Thomas, a renowned author and speaker, who explores how maintaining a healthy lifestyle can strengthen one's soul and enhance familial relationships.

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The Body as an Instrument of Worship

Gary Thomas opens the conversation by challenging the common Christian tendency to prioritize spiritual and intellectual growth while neglecting physical health. He emphasizes the biblical perspective that our bodies are not merely ornaments but instruments for worship and service to God.

Gary Thomas [02:24]: "Scripture talks about offering our bodies as an essential part of worship. Romans 12:1 says, 'Offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God.'"

Thomas argues that caring for our bodies is a form of spiritual worship, making them pleasing to God rather than focusing solely on external appearance for societal approval.

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Balancing Spiritual and Physical Disciplines

The discussion shifts to the challenges Christians face in aligning cultural norms with biblical teachings on health. Jim Daly raises the concern of separating worldly perceptions of the body from a godly approach.

Gary Thomas [03:58]: "We want to look at our bodies as instruments, not as ornaments."

Thomas shares anecdotes, including the tragic story of Robert Murray McShane, a 19th-century preacher who neglected his physical health, leading to untimely death. This underscores the importance of maintaining physical well-being to effectively serve God.

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Personal Testimonies and Practical Applications

Gary Thomas shares personal experiences, highlighting how adopting healthier habits can lead to spiritual growth. He recounts his struggle with sugar addiction and how recognizing that his body belongs to God motivated him to make positive changes.

Gary Thomas [10:02]: "If my body isn't my own and I want to offer it to God, then what are some small changes I can make on a regular basis?"

John Fuller and Jim Daly discuss the concept of "caloric therapy" and the role of small, consistent changes in fostering long-term health benefits without feeling overwhelmed.

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Community Influence and Social Contagion

The conversation explores how social environments, such as church communities and family circles, significantly impact an individual's health choices. Gary Thomas introduces the concept of "socially contagious obesity," explaining how behaviors and habits spread within close-knit groups.

Gary Thomas [20:34]: "Whether you're gaining or losing weight is directly impacted by the circles of the certain closest social constructs around you."

He emphasizes the need for church communities to actively promote healthy living to counteract cultural pressures that encourage overeating and sedentary lifestyles.

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Overcoming Cultural Challenges

Addressing the pervasive influence of the food industry, Thomas discusses how modern food engineering targets consumers' desires for taste, ease of eating, and immediate gratification, often leading to unhealthy eating patterns.

Gary Thomas [25:27]: "There's this engineering science behind that, the way our body works. And so I don't want to come off as angry or shaming or guilting because it doesn't work."

He advocates for a balanced approach, recognizing the difficulties imposed by cultural forces while encouraging personal responsibility and community support in making healthier choices.

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Volleyball Therapy: A Case Study

Gary Thomas introduces "volleyball therapy" through the story of Karen, a mother who reconnected with her physical activity by returning to volleyball. This resurgence not only improved her physical health but also revitalized her spiritual life and familial relationships.

Gary Thomas [12:55]: "She started playing volleyball again. After a few weeks, it started to come back and gave her the energy to be more engaged as a mom and a wife."

Karen's journey exemplifies how physical activity can serve as a gateway to enhanced spiritual devotion and stronger family bonds, illustrating the holistic benefits of a healthy lifestyle.

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Motivation and Discipline in Healthy Living

The hosts and Gary Thomas delve into the psychological aspects of maintaining a healthy lifestyle, highlighting the struggle between immediate gratification and long-term benefits. Thomas emphasizes that recognizing the body as a divine instrument can bolster motivation and commitment to physical discipline.

Gary Thomas [17:15]: "Recognition that my body isn't my own... it gives me at least a leg up on the motivation part."

He relates this to broader life disciplines, such as financial management and faith-sharing, where delayed rewards require sustained effort and perseverance.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reaffirmation of the interconnectedness between physical health and spiritual vitality. Hosts Jim Daly and John Fuller encourage listeners to embrace small, consistent changes in their daily routines as a means to honor God with their bodies, ultimately leading to a more fulfilling and spiritually enriched life.

Jim Daly [26:09]: "Just saying, you know, your body is the vessel. Right? And that's what he's going to use in part along with our mind, our speech, our actions to communicate the gospel."

Gary Thomas's insights provide a compelling case for integrating physical health into one's spiritual practice, fostering a holistic approach to personal and familial well-being.

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Key Takeaways

• Body as Worship: Viewing and treating the body as an instrument for God enhances spiritual worship.
• Small Changes Matter: Implementing minor, consistent health habits can lead to significant spiritual and physical benefits.
• Community Influence: Surrounding oneself with health-conscious individuals supports better lifestyle choices.
• Overcoming Cultural Pressures: Awareness of the food industry's tactics can empower individuals to make healthier decisions.
• Holistic Health: Physical well-being is intrinsically linked to spiritual vitality and effective familial relationships.

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For more insights and to access Gary Thomas's book, Everybody: Strengthening Your Body to Strengthen Your Soul, visit the show notes or call 800-FAMILY (800-232-6459).

Transcript

[Gary Thomas]

I work out so I can play on the floor with my grandkids.

[Jim Daly]

I like to take walks to clear my head.

[Gary Thomas]

Gotta hit 10,000 steps. I really don't want to be rude or antisocial, but food is just everywhere. I'm busy.

[John Fuller]

Okay.

[Gary Thomas]

It's hard to get to the gym. When am I supposed to do that? Like 4:00am, 10:00pm When?

[John Fuller]

Well, maybe you can relate. Is pursuing a healthy lifestyle a chore, or is it something you enjoy? You plan for your overall. Overall well being is what we're talking about today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, and thanks for joining.

[Jim Daly]

Okay, John, here we go. It's the new year. We're gonna kick this off, and it's time to get back to the gym.

[John Fuller]

I sort of feel like we let go a bit and this is the reckoning time, isn't it?

[Jim Daly]

I think so. You know, I'm just coming off rotator cuff surgery, so I was really diligent. I was going to the gym pretty regularly three times a week with Trent, and then this happened, and I haven't been as good about it.

[John Fuller]

You have to eat extra during the holidays to help the arm recover. Right?

[Jim Daly]

That's it. That's the idea. And that's why we're here, to talk about what we can do to honor the Lord by being mindful of our physical bodies and how to take care of him. Don't turn that off. I just felt like four people went, okay, I'm not listening to this guilt trip. No, we got to talk about this. I think it'll be very insightful. We want to talk about fitness spiritually, physically. And we're going to cover that with one of our great friends, Gary Thomas.

[John Fuller]

Yeah. Gary is a prolific author and speaker, and he's been here in the studio with us a number of times and has written a number of books on parenting and marriage and the spiritual life. And today we're covering the content in his great book, Everybody, Strengthening your Body to Strengthen youn Soul. And you can learn more about Gary in this excellent book. When you call 800 a family, that's 800-232-6459. Or stop by the show notes for all the details.

[Jim Daly]

Gary, welcome back to Focus on the Family.

[Gary Thomas]

Thank you. It's always great to be here.

[Jim Daly]

Now, I'm not sure if John said that exactly right. It's like everybody matters. I don't know. Yeah, it is interesting because we always think of God. God's core intentionality with us is about our spirit. Our intellect. And you know, who wants to talk about the body, right? Does he really care about our bodies?

[Gary Thomas]

Well, as Christians, we tend to live from the chin up. That's not my line. It's a classical rider.

[Jim Daly]

That's an ouch.

[Gary Thomas]

So we got to think the right things and then we focus on the heart, but we don't focus on the body. But scripture talks about offering our bodies is an essential part of worship. Romans 12:1. Offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual worship. So a part of our spiritual worship is offering our bodies to God. And what I love about this gym is that as soon as I do that, as soon as any of the listeners do that, our bodies become not just holy but pleasing to God. They might not be pleasing to us, it might not be pleasing to the world. Nobody is going to put me on the COVID of a magazine, but when my body is offered to God to serve him, it's immediately pleasing to him. And his opinion matters more than anyone else's.

[Jim Daly]

Now you know, this can be a catch 22 or a double edged sword, whatever metaphor you want to use. Because so often in the Christian community we're uncomfortable saying that God's mindful of our bodies, that we're mindful or should be mindful of our body. Because the culture puts so much emphasis on the external, what we look like. I mean that is Hollywood's whole shtick. So how do we separate that worldly understanding of the body? Airbrush, all that versus a Christian or godly approach to the body.

[Gary Thomas]

I think the best way to define it, Jim, is that we want to look at our bodies as instruments, not as ornaments.

[Jim Daly]

Wow, that's great.

[Gary Thomas]

Our culture looks at the body as an ornament. Look at me, it's beautiful. I want to be whole. But for Christians, it's offering our bodies to God as instruments. And you need to keep your instrument up if you're going to let God play the music through you. I was struck by a 19th century preacher named Robert Murray McShane. Some of the older listeners will remember him. He was quite famous for the day. He's from Scotland and had a thousand member church back when you know, they would have 60 member churches very young. He was 23 when he had a thousand member church which was so unusual for that age. And he just worked himself literally to death. And he died before he hit the age of 30. And here's what he said. God gave me a message to deliver and a horse to ride. Alas, I have killed the horse. And now I cannot deliver the message. And when you think about wanting to be engaged, as parents, as grandparents, when we gain wisdom, if we don't take care of our bodies, we can't be as engaged. And it's so if we really see this body as an instrument for God that doesn't belong to us. And Scripture is very clear, your body is not your own. You were bought with a price. Therefore, honor God with your bodies. And if I could give a story one time where that really hit me. Before Sacred Marriage came out, I helped a lot of famous people write their books. Incredible minds. A man with such integrity was Senator John Ashcroft. He also was governor of Missouri. Just an incredible godly man. And we were working on his memoir, and he had this file that was just handwritten notes, a couple letters from his dad or whatnot. And he said, gary, what we're talking about, you should take this. You'll get a lot of information. And I said, no, please make copies. He goes, we can't. Here's his integrity. He was in the Senate office, and he wouldn't make 20 copies because it was a personal project. I mean, that's why he ended up becoming the Attorney general. I mean, he was a man of beyond integrity. And he said, just take it. And the reason I was so terrified is I am terrible with paper. If you look at my office, it looks like an office supply store blew up. I can usually find it, but I'm uncovering. I used to feel terrible until I saw JI Packer's desk when I went to seminary. And I said, okay, well, maybe.

[Jim Daly]

But the question is, can you find the M and Ms. Under all that paperwork?

[Gary Thomas]

I can always find the M and M's as well as I can find the papers. So I said, please, please, no. And he goes, gary, you're a responsible young man. I was a younger man back then. I'm sure it'll be fine. I can't tell you how many files I have lost in my lifetime. And I've had to reprint them or just do without them. For the two weeks that I had that personal file in my possession, I knew where it was every second because it didn't belong to me. And at the time, he was rumored to be a presidential candidate. And I thought, man, what if somebody's writing his biography and they say, what happened to this stage of his life? We don't know. Some idiot writer lost the files. But because it didn't belong to me, I was able to hand it over because I said, this is Yours. Well, when I really began to understand my body doesn't belong to me, which goes so against our culture. If we want to eat it, if we want do with it whatever we want to do. I mean, isn't that what our culture says? If, if I want to do this with my body, who is to say I can't? Well, if Jesus is our king, Jesus can. I created your body for certain things. And, and that's true sexually, within marriage and creating children. It's true how we feed our bodies. It's true what we look, what we do with our minds. And, and I think the lordship of Jesus should be the determining factor of how we treat our bodies, how active we are and what we feed our bodies.

[Jim Daly]

I don't want to blow by what you said a moment ago about Lisa. You made a reference to her, and I want to develop that because, you know, so often when we get married, you're the expert in marriage, but we do marry opposites. I never thought about it in the context of how we eat. But in your case it was true, right? You had your, what did you say? Your nine year old sugar habit, which I haven't lost.

[Gary Thomas]

I mean, you go into the, those classic candy stores.

[Jim Daly]

Never been there.

[Gary Thomas]

There's like 50 things I would like to buy if I could, but it's just sugar and the worst kind of sugar. But, and this is a good word for Wise, because when we talk about the discrepancy between our eating. Because, look, when Lisa married me, I was the consummate junk food junkie. Captain Crunch, Big Mac's pizza and ice cream.

[Jim Daly]

You were her project.

[Gary Thomas]

Yes. And she grew up in a family that made 100% whole wheat bread. And they ate things that grow. Stuff like that is what they like to do. And so Wise will say, well, what do you do? What did she do? And I think where Lisa has done really well is one, she can make healthy food taste really delicious. And then we got married. I had a. It was a bad habit. I have a Daily Pepsi. I was pretty much addicted to it. She goes, yeah, that's just sugar water. And so then she got me on Tazochi, like from Starbucks. And after a couple years, you know, that still has too much sugar. And now right here in this cup, I have bhakti chai, which has maybe a third of the sugar of what.

[Jim Daly]

The nickname for that is Dirty water.

[Gary Thomas]

Yeah, but she's really good at just recognizing how small changes can make a big difference if it's a daily part of your life. And that's what I think we can look at. Most of us will give up huge, major changes if you haven't been working out at all. Thinking that you're going to work out five times a week will last for about a week, maybe half a week. But when we look at our daily habits, if we could say, if my body isn't my own and I want to offer it to God, then what are some small changes I can make on a regular basis?

[John Fuller]

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because you and you, Jim and I, we're all married to women who take health very seriously. One of the things that struck me in the book was your phrase caloric therapy. Now, I think that's part of the culture, right? We talk about comfort food. I've got a co worker who can polish off a pint of ice cream, you know, just every day.

[Gary Thomas]

If it's chocolate chocolate chip, God have mercy.

[John Fuller]

You must. Okay, I was talking about a colleague. I really wasn't trying to out you.

[Jim Daly]

Why are you pointing at me?

[Gary Thomas]

You gotta put it in a bowl. That's my advice.

[Jim Daly]

It's not me.

[Gary Thomas]

Put the card in the bowl.

[John Fuller]

How did God deal with you with regard to that particular habit that so many of us have?

[Gary Thomas]

Well, I excused it. In fact, when my first book came out, I was all excited. I was speaking at a benefit dinner for a Pro Life center, which I now know 30 years later. They're not there to hear you. They're not there to buy your book. They're there to support the center. If you do your job right, they won't have any money left over. So I've set up my book table with my one book. And I knew the talk hit because people were laughing, crying in the right places. Big ovation. I didn't sell a single book. I so wanted to be a writer, and I was terrified. If a talk does great and I don't sell a single book, how is this gonna work? And so I get done, you know, and by myself. I'm thinking, I know will make me feel better. Dairy Queen will make me feel better. You know, the Eminem blizzard, the fries, a little bit of sugar.

[Jim Daly]

I started a Dairy Queen as a teenager.

[John Fuller]

Really? Oh, my goodness.

[Gary Thomas]

And so I went back to my room, and then the next morning, I was just praying through it. And I really felt convicted by the Holy Spirit. I'm trying to defend it. Well, God, at least I'm not looking at porn. That's what a lot of guys do on the road, right? There's a comparison. You can't argue with God. Right. It was like, why did you do that? And I was dealing with disappointment and fear and anxiety and uncertainty with sugar does make me feel better immediately. But the long term consequences, I felt God saying that's not going to go well for you if that's how you respond. There are healthier ways to respond to that stuff than caloric therapy.

[John Fuller]

That's a really good thing to listen to God's voice, especially after we've done something that we might regret. I appreciate that. Well, our guest today on Focus on the FAMILY with Jim Daly is Gary Thomas. And we're talking about his book Everybody Strengthen youg Body to Strengthen youn Soul. And you can get that book at our website. We've got the link in the show notes.

[Jim Daly]

We're hitting different themes out of the book. And Gary, I wanted to ask about volleyball therapy. This is a mom named Karen that you called her Karen in the book, who kind of that idea between the spiritual soul and the physical body. But hit the volleyball therapy.

[Gary Thomas]

Karen is a great friend. She's actually my agent's wife. And so I've known her through the years. And she's telling this story about they had two wonderful children. They decided to adopt a third. And this isn't why they adopted, but she said she's looking forward to having a child without gaining all the baby weight. And yet the stress of bringing a child from Ethiopia into their family and incorporating a third kid. She said she ended up gaining more weight with the adoption than she actually had with the two. And she found herself in this cycle where she would be with her three kids and she would eat their snacks and they're just kind of sedentary and it just sort of got worse and worse and worse. And these are her words, not mine. She said, my world felt very small. I felt trapped in my own house. I took care of everyone but felt invisible. And I think, let me just pause here. I think so many of the women listeners, we're so grateful to you and we love this about you, that you are taking care of everyone. You might be taking care of your parents and your husband and your kids. And so you hear this and I just want to say what Karen found is there is a place where it's okay to take care of yourself. And that's what Karen found out. She said, I knew I was loved, but as a young mother, you pour everything into your very needy young children. I wasn't taking care of myself. And Karen noticed that as she felt less and less physically fit, she felt Less and less connected to God. There was a one to one correlation between her spiritual devotions and how she was feeling physically. And she finally looked in the mirror one morning and said, I didn't think I looked very attractive. I didn't feel noticed, didn't feel very beautiful. With Curtis, I was no longer his girlfriend. I was his frumpy wife and the mother of his kids. It's not that he made me feel that way. I felt it all on my own. And a lot of pastors or spiritual directors might talk to Karen and say, well, maybe you need to practice fasting or double down on your devotions or a lot of spiritual solutions. And sometimes that might be helpful. But the change for Karen is she started playing volleyball again. She had been a college volleyball player. She was accomplished. And it felt a little bit embarrassing because she wasn't in the same shape. Her skills were a little rustier, but after a few weeks it started to come back. And then it gave her energy to. Instead of sitting in front of the TV with her kids, she would go on walks with her kids and then they had a stroller where she could do a few jogs and then she would go for full out runs. And everything began to change. She felt happier, more energetic as a mom, and she said, more disciplined in her spiritual devotions. It made her feel better sexually, that's her words, and more connected with her husband. And it was that physical activity that became the doorway to spiritual health. And what I love about this is that it wasn't just what it did for her. She went from feeling like she was going from worse to worse to worse, to not only feeling better physically as a wife and as a mom. She became involved with an international adoption ministry. So now God is using her to reach others. But the key is, I call it volleyball therapy. Sometimes it is the case that we need to get more into God's word. We might need to practice some of the spiritual disciplines. But for Karen, it was getting physical again. And that awakened her as a mom, as a wife for herself, and then as a minister of God's gospel.

[Jim Daly]

That's a beautiful illustration of how it all comes together. What do you think? You know, I think we all realize if we can do some of that, like what Karen did, we will feel better. Other areas of our life will become more positive. But then the big question is, why don't we do it? I mean, that motivating factor, everybody I think can rationalize, yeah, if I get in the gym a little bit more, that makes me feel better. Certainly look a little better, and that's okay. But getting that motivation is so hard.

[Gary Thomas]

And that's really what everybody manners is all about, is the spiritual motivation. Most of us know what to do and what not to do to be healthier. It's just motivation, I would say, is 80% of the battle. And when I recognize that my body isn't my own, that I want to be an instrument instead of an ornament, it gives me at least a leg up on the motivation part where I'm more commitment. But here's the spiritual challenge. But this is where I think it builds us as people all the way around. The problem with physical fitness is that a lack of physical fitness has immediate rewards and delayed consequences. If I eat my M and M Blizzard and medium fries, there's an immediate reward. I get that rush and the consequences are delayed. My pants don't fit tighter the next day. But if I keep doing that, eventually they will, and I'll feel a little more sluggish and a little slower. Physical discipline. Here's the challenge. It's immediate consequences and delayed rewards. Because if I don't have that or and I go for a run instead of having the blizzard, I don't notice the difference immediately. I don't drop half a pound or a pound. It takes time for the benefit of that to take place. And so you really have to get into this place. Where am I going to be driven by the immediate reward or am I going to have a delayed reward and face the immediate consequences of not of doing something I don't want to do? And that's hard. But look at this is the same thing for finances. Instead of making the immediate purchase that's fun, you're saving away for financial health in the future and getting out of debt. It's often the same thing for sharing our faith. You share your faith with someone, it's not immediate consequences. Sometimes you're meeting with them several times before they give their hearts or others are after you. And certainly with kids, I mean, look, when people say they have babies to have somebody that loves them, I'm like, have you ever met a baby? Because they're going to be. And you got to get through adolescence before they even know how to say thank you. So there are a lot of things in life where I think that principle holds true, that we accept difficulty immediately knowing that the consequences are delayed and reject the immediate reward because the consequences are negative but way off in the future.

[John Fuller]

Gary, I appreciate that and I think for some people, and I might be kind of like you, I can do some things by myself. But in the culture, it seems that we need kind of a tribe around us. It's a social thing, staying fit. I was recently in a college town, and there were groups of college kids running out there. And then we go to church where food is part of fellowship.

[Jim Daly]

Potluck.

[John Fuller]

Potluck. I mean, it even happens here at Focus. We're a Christian ministry, and we have food to celebrate. And I grew up with food as a celebration. I passed it on to my kids. Let's celebrate with food. So how does a church community create a healthier, want to be healthier environment instead of saying, it's a potluck, and the fried chicken always goes first.

[Jim Daly]

Well, and who's going to show up at the carrot stick celebration?

[John Fuller]

Yes.

[Gary Thomas]

Well, my wife has helped me on this somewhat. She's pointed out the Bible mentions feasting more than it mentions fasting. She's a foodie. I'm married, a foodie. I don't enjoy food. Food is utilitarian for me. I don't like being hungry. But she thinks the preparing of it and the tasting of it is good. But you're right with the church community. A Baptist pastor fre of mine says the typical Baptist conference is 50 souls saved, 2000 people overfed. And it's fascinating. The New England Journal of Medicine published a study they called socially contagious obesity. And what they determined is that whether you're gaining or losing weight is directly impacted by a circle of the certain closest social constructs around you. Now, I experienced this back in my marathon days. I was speaking at a pro athletes outreach conference to NFL players. And what hit me, these guys are giants. When you see them on television, it's giants next to giants. You don't see how big they are when you're walking around them. I mean, their arms are bigger than my legs. And I was in my marathon days, and I was still trying to lose a little bit, because if you're trying to run a fast marathon, you really every pound matters. And Lisa said to me, gary, please don't tell these guys you're trying to lose weight. They'll lose all respect for you. And I felt just tiny and thin. Well, I was trying to qualify for the Boston Marathon at the time. So I went to Duluth, Minnesota, to run the Grandma's marathon. Grandma's is the name of a restaurant. It's not Grandma's that run the marathon. It was. And they pay the winners, so they get some of the fast Ethiopians and Kenyans. And whatnot. I stayed at the hotel with these guys and one couple of them got into elevator with me. And these guys are heads with lungs. I mean, there's no body fat at all. And I looked down, I said, gary, you got to start eating a salad. I mean, I felt gigantic next to these guys. The same body. This was within six weeks, the same body. I felt so tiny with the football players and overweight with the elite marathoners. And that's what socially contagious obesity is all about. If you're in a church and a family and friends where you're all gaining two or three pounds a year, you're just gradually going to grow heavier and heavier and heavier. But if you have a family member or a church that says, we want to take this seriously and you start getting a little fitter and losing a little weight. Now, for some of us, gaining weight is more important than losing weight. But that social construct is very important, which is why I do think it's good for churches to address this, not just individuals, because we're in a culture where we're all getting heavier. Statistics now show between 70 and 75% of us are obese or overweight. And some of that, it's not our fault. It's just, it's what we face. The whole force of our culture is going against that. And I think the third biggest thing I say as a pastor to our church members is that people are literally being preyed upon. I'm not anti capitalist. I think it's the best form of government. I think it's lifted so many nations out of poverty. But the dirty side to it is that food manufacturers get profit by getting us to eat more and more of their product, whether or not it's healthy for us. And they hire food engineers who study how to get us to eat more and more of what we need. The four things that they're really going for, they want the perfect combination of taste. Obviously we're not going to eat it if it doesn't taste good. The ease of eating, apparently we're lazy. We want something just to microwave our mouth. We don't want it to be hard to chew it. And you think about the game. Jim, I know you're a big hunter and whatnot. A lot of that it's not easy to eat. I mean, you got to kind of work. I mean, well cooked steak isn't so difficult. But you talk about some of the game that you hunt in backstraps, you've got to do it. But the third thing is the Meltdown of the food. And the fourth thing is the early hit. And they've studied how do we create this neurological hit that they put this in my mouth and I want more and more of it. And the famous potato chip commercial, I bet you can't eat just one. Is an engineering success. That is true. They make it so that if you have one potato chip, you want two. If you want two, you want it. You want two bags until you're done. In fact, I was telling Jim just before the show here that, you know, a Krispy Kreme doughnut, the hot and ready ones, just the basic glazed ones.

[Jim Daly]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[Gary Thomas]

Well, there's this store, it sells donuts, 190 calories. And if I eat two of them, I can't remember the last time I ate one. But if I eat two of them, I'm hungrier after I eat two than before. There is engineering science behind that, the way our body works. And so I don't want to come off as angry or shaming or guilting because it doesn't work. I really approach us as a pastor as it's going to be really hard for all of us to address it because everything around us and in our culture is making it really hard to maintain a healthy body.

[Jim Daly]

Well, I mean this is some information. I'm sitting there absorbing it and thinking about, okay, all the way back to the Lord, just saying, you know, your body is the vessel. Right? And that's what he's going to use in part along with our mind, our speech, our actions to communicate the gospel. So it does put it in a different perspective. What a great read. Everybody matters. And let's come back next time and cover uncover some more of the themes that you've highlighted. And I'm starting to get a little hungry, Gary, but I don't know what to do with that now. I don't know if I can go eat or what. But it's been great to have you. Thanks for being with us.

[John Fuller]

Thank you. And what a terrific conversation and book. Get a copy of this book when you make a generous donation of any amount to focus on the family. If you can make that a monthly pledge, we'd appreciate that. Or a one time gift of any amount, regardless of the size of the gift. Call today. Donate generously. We'll send you the book everybody. Strengthening your body to strengthen your soul. Details are in the show notes or give us a call. 800 the letter A in the word family. And on behalf of the team. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we continue the conversation with Gary Thomas and once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

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