Episode Overview

Podcast: followHIM
Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Episode Title: A Dad, a Daughter & a 200-Foot Cliff • followHIM Favorites • Jan. 26 - Feb. 1 • Come Follow Me
Air Date: January 22, 2026

This episode of followHIM Favorites uses a personal, vivid story from Hank Smith to delve into the principles of agency, parenting, and spiritual leadership as illuminated in Genesis 5 and Moses 6 from the "Come, Follow Me" lesson. Hank shares a poignant, meaningful dream about his daughter and the lessons it taught him about leading instead of forcing, echoing the week’s scriptural themes of teaching and agency within families. The discussion weaves personal reflection with doctrinal insights, making it both relatable and spiritually instructive.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Dream: A Lesson in Agency and Parenting (00:03–05:13)

• Setting the Scene:
  Hank describes a striking dream where he and his young daughter, Madeline, are atop a dangerous red cliff in southern Utah. (00:03)

• Instinct vs. Agency:
  As Madeline ignores his warnings and backs toward the cliff edge, Hank’s instinct is to forcibly intervene, but every approach pushes her closer to danger.

• The Critical Change:
  Hank fights his instinct and, counterintuitively, takes a step away from her. This change in approach puzzles Madeline, who then steps toward him, away from the cliff. Eventually, he runs away from the cliff, and she chases him to safety. (03:18)

Quote:
"I had a feeling…that I should do something that was entirely against my nature, which was take a step away from her…She looked at me kind of confused, this little girl. And she took a step towards me, John." — Hank Smith (03:45)

2. Reflection and Interpretation with Sarah Smith (05:13–06:03)

• Deeper Meaning:
  After sharing the dream, Hank’s wife Sarah interprets it as a lesson in parenting styles, suggesting that his tendency to control could push their daughter closer to danger rather than keep her safe.

Sarah’s Advice:
"In parenting, we have to learn. It's not about forcing. It's about leading." — Sarah Smith (05:54)

• Hank is deeply impacted, realizing that effective teaching—even of vital spiritual truths—should be done freely, not forcefully.

Quote:
"I didn't read 'Teach these things forcefully unto your children.'” — Hank Smith (06:01)

3. Spiritual Application—Leading Like the Good Shepherd (06:03–06:24)

• Shepherd Analogy:
  John draws a parallel to Christ as the shepherd who “leads” rather than drives with force, illustrating how love and leadership are rooted in agency and relationship.

Quote:
"You call them by name and they know your name, and you lead them. I need to have more dreams, Hank." — John Bytheway (06:10)

• Hank and John relate this parenting lesson to God's nature and the scriptural theme of teaching agency, highlighting that God guides but never compels.

4. Concluding Reflections and Invitation (06:24–End)

• Personality and Agency:
  Hank notes that his daughter, like many of God’s children, is especially resistant to force. He observes this is “very godlike”—agency is inherent to God’s children.

• Direct Application:
  The hosts encourage listeners to lead with love and guidance, fostering agency rather than control—both in parenting and in teaching gospel principles.

• Full Episode Teaser:
  Listeners are invited to join the full podcast episode with guest Dr. Kerry Meelstein for more in-depth discussion.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You have a tendency to parent a lot like you were parented... I think something might be telling you that when you do that, you're actually going to push her towards the very things you don't want her to go towards."
  — Sarah Smith (04:43)

• "In parenting, we have to learn. It's not about forcing. It's about leading."
  — Sarah Smith (05:54)

• "I didn't read Teach these things forcefully unto your children."
  — Hank Smith (06:01)

• "You call them by name and they know your name, and you lead them."
  — John Bytheway (06:10)

• "God isn't forced to do anything. He's not a slave to anyone. Yet sometimes we think the best way to help our children is to force them to do something. It can be quite counterproductive."
  — Hank Smith (06:28)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:03 | Hank introduces the week's lesson and sets up his personal story | | 01:00 | Hank narrates the dream on the red cliff with his daughter | | 03:45 | The pivotal moment—Hank steps back and Madeline comes toward him | | 04:43 | Sarah interprets the dream and shares parenting insight | | 05:54 | "It's about leading, not forcing"—Sarah's pivotal quote | | 06:03 | Reflection on teaching "freely" vs. "forcefully" | | 06:10 | The shepherd analogy by John Bytheway | | 06:28 | Broader spiritual implications on agency and God’s nature |

Summary

This followHIM Favorites episode celebrates agency in teaching and parenting, using Hank Smith’s heartfelt dream as a springboard for spiritual and practical reflection. With warmth and humor, the hosts model vulnerability and learning, encouraging listeners to lead with love, respect agency, and teach gospel truths with gentleness—not coercion. The episode harmonizes scriptural counsel with real-life experience, leaving listeners encouraged and better equipped for both parenting and discipleship.