Podcast Summary: followHIM – Doctrine & Covenants 129–132 Part 1

Guests: Hosts Hank Smith & John Bytheway, Guest Brittany Chapman Nash
Date: November 5, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of followHIM focuses on Doctrine & Covenants sections 129–132, delving into profound theological concepts of the Latter-day Saint tradition: the nature of angels, the sociality of heaven, exaltation, and the historical and doctrinal complexities surrounding plural marriage (polygamy). Hank and John are joined by historian Brittany Chapman Nash, whose scholarship centers on women in Church history, including her acclaimed book, "Let's Talk About Polygamy." Together, they navigate sensitive questions, pioneer spiritual insights, and highlight voices from early Latter-day Saints, offering listeners both depth and approachability in their personal Come, Follow Me studies.

Main Themes

• Understanding spiritual discernment, angels, and physical senses in revelation (D&C 129)
• The tangible, relational, and embodied vision of God (D&C 130)
• Enduring relationships and the sociality of heaven
• Gaining intelligence and what truly "rises with us" after death (D&C 130)
• The process, purpose, and example of plural marriage (preview for section 132)
• Faithful history: letting 19th-century voices teach about plural marriage

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Making Spiritual Things Accessible: God, Angels, and Discernment

(D&C 129; 00:04, 09:29)

• Discernment Keys: Joseph Smith's revelations provide practical tools to discern true from false spirits. The “handshake test” is discussed both literally and symbolically.
  • “He seems almost casual... ‘This is good knowledge because you might use this on a daily basis.’” (Hank, 18:20)
  • Brittany shares how this relates to using multiple senses—touch, sight, reason, and feeling—in discerning spiritual truth.
• Personal Application: Brittany narrates her experience choosing a major, realizing the need to balance emotion with reason to perceive divine guidance (15:09–16:56).
• Memorable Quote:
  • "It's easy to forget that God wants to communicate with us. He wants to reach us. It's good to seek for multiple ways that He's trying to speak to us." (Brittany, 17:45–18:13)

2. Joseph Smith’s Revelations: The Nature of God and the Sociality of Heaven

(D&C 130; 09:29, 25:34, 27:16)

• Revolutionary Teachings: The embodied, relatable, “reachable” concept of God (“a man like ourselves”), which was radical compared to 19th-century Christian trinitarian ideas.
  • "When the Savior shall appear... we shall see that he is a man like ourselves." (Brittany, 25:34)
  • "We're not entitled to a let's look eye to eye and talk… It's His condescension and kindness to us." (Hank & Brittany, 27:26)
• Heaven as Familiar:
  • "The same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory which glory we do not now enjoy." (D&C 130:2; discussed 27:55–33:42)
  • Brittany, Hank, and John reflect on “tastes of heaven” found in meaningful relationships.
    • "The times you have tasted heaven, it was with people..." (John, 30:32)
    • “Heaven is all about people.” (A: 30:11)

3. Loss, Hope, and the Expectation of Reunion

(34:19–35:26)

• Personal Anecdotes: The hosts and Brittany share heartfelt recollections of colleagues and loved ones, emphasizing the doctrine's real comfort.
  • "That's probably the only way to deal with the depth of sorrow when you lose someone you love so dearly. That's the hopeful view." (Brittany, 34:19)
• Historical Perspective:
  • Referencing Parley P. Pratt’s testimony and Kate Holbrook’s and Melissa Inouye’s legacies.

4. Eternal Progression: Intelligence, Character, Relationships

(D&C 130:18–22; 39:04–44:15)

• What “Rises” With Us: Intelligence, character, and relationships can be cultivated and taken beyond the grave; possessions cannot.
  • "You are talking about things that fit in your spirit. Getting our spirit to be in charge of our body, that's one of the things that we learn." (John, 42:25)
• Physical Experience as Learning: Brittany draws on President Spencer W. Kimball’s perspective on suffering and spiritual growth, and her own experiences with illness and recovery.
  • “People become angels through sickness.” (Brittany quoting Kimball, 41:39)
• Obedience and Blessings: Caution against interpreting blessings as a strict transaction; sometimes God withholds blessings in mercy.
  • "Some things God withholds from us in mercy. For a time, we may not see how he's being merciful, but withholding that from us is [merciful]." (Brittany, 47:43)
  • Referencing Elder Christofferson’s “cosmic vending machine” analogy (48:04–49:57).

5. Embodied Deity and the “Heresy” of Early Christianity

(D&C 130:22; 49:57–54:51)

• God’s Corporeality:
  • “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's, the Son also. But the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of spirit.” (D&C 130:22, discussed 49:57–51:09)
  • John presents fascinating historical pushback against this doctrine, showing early Christian roots and later Greek philosophical opposition.
  • “Who’s the heretics? Well, the early Christians thought God had a body and there were anti-Christians writing against that belief.” (John, 53:16)

6. Section 131: Degrees of Glory & Theological Uniqueness

(56:16–60:13)

• The Text’s Origin: Not a traditional dictated revelation, but notes recorded from Joseph Smith’s sermons.
• Degrees Within Celestial Glory: Ongoing historical and doctrinal discussion—does the celestial kingdom have internal gradations?
• Historical Research: Brittany highlights work by Orson Pratt and modern scholar Lejean Carruth in clarifying early teachings.
  • "Millions... may reach the celestial kingdom... that will not reach the higher order of glory in that kingdom." (Orson Pratt, paraphrased by Brittany, 58:49)
• Salvation and Knowledge: You cannot be “saved in ignorance”—gaining knowledge is essential.

7. All Spirit Is Matter

(D&C 131:7; 61:06–62:34)

• Metaphysical Insight: Spirit is refined matter; spiritual perception is likened to having “purer eyes.”
  • “All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes.” (John, 61:19)
  • Cross-referenced to scriptural accounts like Elisha’s vision.

8. Preview: Plural Marriage (D&C 132)

(02:12, 62:34)

• Brittany sets the stage for an honest, empathic discussion of plural marriage, promising stories from real 19th-century Saints, including Martha Craigen Cox.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Test for Angels:
  • "Joseph Smith, through revelation, was able to offer those ideas to him and other converts." (Brittany, 09:29)
• On Reason and Revelation:
  • “I believe [God] appeals to both our intellect and our spirits.” (Brittany, 16:56)
• On Heavenly Relationships:
  • “The same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there... This is one of my favorite verses in all of Scripture because of the reassurance that it gives me.” (Brittany, 27:55)
• On Blessings and Obedience:
  • "It's our lives are good because God is good. Not because of what we've done that makes us deserve it." (Brittany, 47:43)
• On Early Christian Belief:
  • “Who’s the heretic? The early Christians thought God had a body…” (John, 53:16)
• On Loss and Hope:
  • “That's probably the only way to deal with the depth of sorrow when you lose someone you love so dearly. That's the hopeful view.” (Brittany, 34:19)

Timestamps of Major Segments

• 00:04: Introduction: Withholding and receiving blessings, obedience and mercy (Brittany)
• 02:12: What the coming sections cover—angels, exaltation, plural marriage (Brittany)
• 09:29: Making “heavenly” things accessible; Brigham Young’s search for a tangible God
• 14:39: Brittany’s personal experience with revelation, reasoning, and discernment
• 27:55: The doctrine of “heavenly sociality”—eternal friendships and relationships
• 33:55: Comfort through doctrine—loss, funerals, and expectation of reunion
• 39:04: Intelligence, character, and relationships as “eternal cargo”
• 47:43: The logic of blessings and obedience; God’s mercy in both giving and withholding
• 49:57: The nature of the Godhead; early Christianity and corporeal deity
• 56:16: Section 131’s origin and implications about degrees within Celestial glory
• 61:06: “All spirit is matter”—metaphysics in Mormon doctrine
• 62:34: Preview of polygamy discussion with Martha Craigen Cox’s story

Tone and Approach

The conversation is candid, empathetic, and honors both faith and historical complexity. The hosts maintain warmth and humor (“tastes of heaven”), making deep theology approachable. Brittany Chapman Nash’s expertise brings stories of early Saints to life, always emphasizing hearing their voices rather than external judgments.

For Next Time

The episode closes with a teaser: Part 2 will explore plural marriage through real 19th-century experiences, aiming to replace discomfort with understanding.

Recommended for: Anyone seeking doctrinal depth, historical empathy, practical faith application, and help navigating challenging gospel subjects in a supportive setting.