Podcast Summary: followHIM – Doctrine & Covenants 129–132 Part 2

Episode Date: November 5, 2025
Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Sister Brittany Chapman Nash

Overview

This episode focuses on Doctrine & Covenants Section 132 (with references to 129–132), delving into the controversial topic of plural marriage (polygamy) in Latter-day Saint history. Sister Brittany Chapman Nash, a historian and expert on 19th-century Latter-day Saints, joins the host team to bring clarity, context, and compassion to a topic often fraught with discomfort, questions, and faith challenges. The discussion aims to help listeners understand the historical roots, lived experiences, and evolving perspectives on polygamy, emphasizing that a testimony of plural marriage is not required for contemporary faithfulness and that wrestling with these issues is both normal and welcomed.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Section 132: Context and Approach

• Not a Requirement for Faithfulness (00:07–01:38)
  • Brittany reminds listeners that belief in polygamy is not required for membership or faithfulness in today’s church. She encourages engagement with the section to understand its historical context and the faith of past practitioners.
  • "We do not need to leave this section feeling that we must have a testimony of plural marriage... It is no longer practiced by Latter-day Saints." (00:07–00:40)
• Analytical Framing
  • The episode proposes reading Section 132 with historical sensitivity—recognizing it as a product of its time and understanding how it shaped Latter-day Saint decisions and relationships in the 19th century.

2. The Historical Background of Section 132

• Origins & Audience (02:01–07:05)

  • Section 132 was initially dictated with Emma Smith (Joseph Smith’s wife) as the primary audience, written by William Clayton at Hyrum Smith’s request, and meant to address Emma’s doubts and concerns.
  • Emma famously rejected and burned the original revelation copy; a backup persisted in private Latter-day Saint circles (05:23–05:45).
  • Notable Moment: “Joseph smiled and remarked, ‘You do not know Emma as well as I do.’” (04:30, quoting William Clayton)

• Audience-Specific Revelation

  • The revelation's tone and content were shaped by the personal dynamics between Joseph and Emma, not written as a public treatise on marriage but as a response to deeply personal marital struggles.

3. Publication and Canonization History

• From Private to Public Doctrine (07:05–13:44)

  • Section 132 wasn’t publicly taught or published until 1852, years after Joseph’s death. It was canonized in 1876.

  • Orson Pratt delivered the first public discourse about polygamy in Salt Lake City, marking the shift from secretive to open practice.

  • Joseph Smith revised other revelations for public church-wide dissemination, but Section 132 did not undergo this process, so it retains unique personal touches and context (13:44–15:20).

  • Quote: “It is most probable that had it then been written with a view to its going out as a doctrine of the Church, it would have been presented in a somewhat different form.” —Joseph F. Smith, as cited by Brittany (07:38)

4. Document Provenance and Reliability

• Historical Methodology (15:38–18:33)

  • Brittany outlines how historians trace the provenance of such records by following their chain of custody (from William Clayton to various trusted hands over time) and cross-referencing sources to verify authenticity.

  • Memorable Quote: “Provenance is really important for establishing whether or not a record can be trusted as being what it says it is and having a line that you can trace of people.” (15:59)

• Tone and Troubling Language

  • Section 132’s tone is harsher than many other revelations, possibly due to its specific audience and the lack of post-revelation editing (18:41).

5. Reading & Interpreting Section 132

• Why Did Polygamy Enter Latter-day Saint Practice? (20:11–22:23)

  • Joseph Smith was searching for patterns to “restore all things,” including practices of Old Testament patriarchs like Abraham and Jacob.
  • Section 132 was both a response to his questions and a record of a private struggle about marriage.

• Plural and Eternal Marriage

  • Eternal marriage, which Joseph had been teaching about for years, is discussed in the section as the context for plural marriage. Brittany laments that we don’t have a standalone revelation on eternal marriage (22:35–23:15).

  • Quote (humor): “Brace for impact.” —John (23:16)

• Distinguishing “The New and Everlasting Covenant”

  • There’s an important distinction between the “new and everlasting covenant” of marriage, and plural marriage as an aspect of it (24:51).

  • Quote: “...God uses monogamous marriages to bring about his purposes... Can we also agree that sometimes God uses polygamous marriages to bring about his purposes?” (25:20–26:05; referencing Dr. Kate Holbrook)

6. Emotional Weight and Lived Experience

• Emotional Responses and Concerns (27:18–28:48)

  • Brittany underscores that strong feelings about polygamy are expected and valid.
  • Concerns about consent, agency, and potential abuse of authority were present then as now.
  • “By and large, people were motivated to marry plurally because they believed it was a commandment of God. Most had a holy motivation.” (27:48)

• Sealing Power and Eternal Partnership

  • Explains the theology of priesthood sealing, the idea of joint ascent (“they shall be gods”) and the inclusive, redemptive dimension of proxy temple work (30:21–34:59).

  • Consistent emphasis: “They” — these are promises made to both man and woman in partnership.

  • Quote: “Then shall THEY be gods because THEY have no end... it’s a partnership that's required to achieve this glorified state in the next life of being able to create.” (31:30–32:35)

• Meaning of 'Damned'

  • “Damned” in scripture is interpreted as “unable to progress,” not a tone of angry condemnation (34:59–35:59).

7. Motivations and Experiences in Practicing Polygamy

• Blessings & Abrahamic Sacrifice (36:13–40:07)

  • Practitioners believed polygamy was an Abrahamic sacrifice, a test of faith that shaped a “tried people.”
  • Blessings cited include “thrones, principalities, exaltation, continuation of seed.”
  • Quote: “Plural marriage was a negative and horrible experience for some. For others, it was beautiful and a wonderful choice that they made for their lives.” (27:48)

• A Testament of Faith

  • Brittany’s own view: “I have since come to view plural marriage... as one of the most valuable testaments of faith in the history of the Church...” (39:56)

8. Agency, Consent, and Realities of 19th-Century Polygamy

• Consent and Social Dynamics (41:08–46:43)
  • Female agency and informed consent were present, though not universal—cases of social or familial coercion existed but were not systematic.
  • Stories: Sarah Kimball and Cordelia Morley Cox both rejected proposals without negative social fallout, undermining narratives of widespread coercion (43:44–45:45)
  • Only a minority actually practiced polygamy, and belief or disbelief did not, on its own, define faithfulness in that era.
• Reciprocal Respect for Choices
  • John: “There wasn't a standard church practice of: reject this and we march you out of Salt Lake.” (46:22)

9. Modern Application and Emotional Processing

• Room for Individual Struggle (48:25–49:10)

  • The hosts and guest reassure listeners that struggling with polygamy’s history is normal. Doubts and discomfort do not disqualify one from faith or community.
  • Brittany (paraphrased): Trust the accounts and agency of those who lived and practiced it; let their testimonies shape your understanding (49:10).

• Reading the Stories for Ourselves

  • “I had never once in my life read what one of these women had to say about her experiences or her life... I should really have a better understanding of what I had angst about and who I was feeling it on behalf of.” —Erin, quoted by Steve (50:31)

10. 19th-Century Accounts of Women's Experiences

• Diverse Reactions to Section 132 (53:18–59:02)

  • The reaction among saints was not monolithic. Some, like Fanny Stenhouse, recoiled and later left; others, like Emily B. Spencer, found it spiritually convincing.
  • Accounts from Sarah C. Jensen and Martha Craigen Cox show personal, often wrenching spiritual journeys around consenting to or rejecting polygamous marriage.
  • Quote (Cox): “I could not say that I had really loved the man as a lover's love... it was faith in God and what he wanted for my life that made me make that decision.” (54:45–60:56)

• Consent in Doctrine and Ritual

  • The expectation of free agency and consent was built into the plural marriage sealing rites as taught (59:02–59:53).

11. Enduring Lessons and Reassurance

• Spiritual Fruits from Wrestling with History (60:13–65:47)

  • Reading and writing about these stories can be spiritually edifying, even if at times it is upsetting or difficult.
  • Memorable Quote (Martha Craigen Cox): “It is a joy to know that we laid the foundation of a life to come while we lived in that plural marriage... that knowledge is worth more to me than gold…” (61:02–61:40)
  • The hosts praise Brittany as an “angel of light” bringing understanding to “dark places” for many listeners grappling with such topics (65:10).

• Permission to Not Have All the Answers

  • “It’s okay to not expect it to ever fit... You do not need to. There’s nothing wrong with you if you feel negatively about it. People have wrestled with it, have lived it, and we can leave it with them.” —Brittany (65:39–65:50)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Historical Reading and Authorship

  • "If it were written with a view of its going out as a doctrine of the Church, it would have been presented in a somewhat different form." —Joseph F. Smith (07:38)

• On Emotional Struggle & Faith

  • “For some, plural marriage was a negative and horrible experience. For others, it was beautiful and a wonderful choice that they made for their lives.” —Brittany (27:48)

• On Reading the Record

  • "Provenance is really important for establishing whether or not a record can be trusted as being what it says it is... There wasn’t just a gap of 30 years and then this document shows up out of nowhere." —Brittany (15:59–16:50)

• On Living with Unanswered Questions

  • "I can stay active in the church, love my church, love my testimony, and say, yeah, one day I bet we'll hear it from them." —Steve Sorensen (47:06)

• On the Testimony of Practitioners

  • “Celestial and plural marriage is a law of heaven and at that time in force among God's people on earth... And I knew it.” —Andrew J. Hansen (62:00)
  • “Polygamy is not something we should feel ashamed of or feel sheepish about or apologetic. It's history. It's our history.” —Brittany (63:12)

• On Emotional Validation

  • “It's okay to not expect it to ever fit. It may not ever fit. And that's okay with polygamy.” —Brittany (65:39)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:07 — Introduction and framing: Not required to believe in polygamy
• 02:01 — Historical backstory: Emma Smith and the purpose of the revelation
• 07:38 — Joseph F. Smith’s take: Written for a private audience
• 13:44 — How revelation texts were (or weren’t) adapted for publication
• 18:33 — Document authenticity: tracing the Section’s provenance
• 22:23 — Joseph Smith’s search for restoration and Old Testament precedents
• 25:20 — Distinguishing monogamy, polygamy, and their respective spiritual fruits
• 27:18 — Polygamy’s emotional/empathic toll and issues of consent
• 31:30 — Promises of eternal partnership: “They shall be gods...”
• 34:59 — Scriptural “damnation” as spiritual limitation, not rage
• 41:08 — Agency and real stories of accepting or rejecting the principle
• 50:31 — Reading the voices of the women themselves
• 53:18 — Diverse reactions to polygamy among 19th-century converts
• 59:02 — Consent in doctrine and sealing ceremonies
• 60:56 — Martha Craigen Cox’s testimony of plural wife sisterhood
• 62:00 — Andrew J. Hansen’s reflection on era-specific faith
• 65:39 — Permission for enduring uncertainty and emotional complexity

Conclusion & Final Thoughts

• Section 132 is best read as a historical document, intended first for Emma Smith, later canonized for complex reasons.
• Emotional and spiritual wrestling with polygamy, both then and now, is acknowledged and given space.
• Faithful, thinking Latter-day Saints (and others) do not need to attain or claim a testimony of plural marriage.
• The lived stories of 19th-century saints illuminate a variety of motivations, experiences, and enduring legacies, reminding us—through their writings and choices—that grappling with hard topics is itself an act of faith.

Brittany Chapman Nash and the hosts close with encouragement: There is room in faith to not have all the answers, to hold uncertainty, and to let history be a teacher and testifier, not a stumbling block. Listeners are encouraged to focus on what they know and feel right now, trusting their own place along the journey of faith.