Podcast Summary: followHIM - Doctrine & Covenants 133–134, Part 2 with Bro. Alvin Jackson

Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Bro. Alvin Jackson
Air Date: November 12, 2025
Scripture Focus: Doctrine & Covenants 133–134
Episode Theme: Exploring scriptural themes of gathering, covenants, government, and our civic and spiritual duty within the Latter-day Saint context.

Overview

In this episode, Hank Smith and John Bytheway are joined by Bro. Alvin Jackson to discuss Doctrine & Covenants sections 133 and 134 as part of the Come Follow Me curriculum. The conversation delves into the spiritual symbolism of the latter-day gathering, Christ’s atonement, the principle of covenants, and examines the Church’s historic and doctrinal stance on government, agency, and the U.S. Constitution. Bro. Jackson draws from his personal conversion story and experience in government to provide rich perspectives on faith, religious freedom, and civic responsibility.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Gathering of Israel and the Role of Ephraim (00:09–01:36)

• Doctrine & Covenants 133:32–34: The promise of gathering and blessings, specifically referencing the tribe of Ephraim as key gatherers.
  • “Ephraim seems to be the tribe that's holding the family reunion... the gatherer.” [00:39, John Bytheway]
• Personal Reflection: Bro. Jackson shares a story about his son’s patriarchal blessing naming him of the tribe of Issachar, sparking a personal study of biblical tribes and their significance.

2. The Return of Christ and the Symbolism of Dyed Garments (01:45–04:57)

• Symbolism Explored:
  • Christ’s garments “dyed” in red (D&C 133:46–48) symbolize his solitary atoning sacrifice.
  • “I have trodden in the winepress alone and have brought judgment upon all people. And none were with me.” [05:04, Alvin Jackson]
  • The visual of blood-stained garments is discussed as both literal and symbolic, representing the Atonement’s magnitude.
• Memorable Quote: “Imagine seeing that much red on someone's clothes... it makes me feel reverent.” [03:38, Hank Smith]
• Connecting the Bible and Modern Revelation: The group notes how the section weaves biblical allusion with Restoration scripture.

3. Comfort, Affliction, and Christ’s Empathetic Ministry (05:51–07:07)

• Empathy in Affliction:
  • The hosts discuss how Christ is present in affliction (“In their afflictions he was afflicted...with love and pity. I can redeem you and carry you.” [06:19, John Bytheway])
  • Alma 7:11–12: Jesus’ ability to succor, or help, because of his mortal experience.

4. The Power of Covenants and Resurrection Hope (08:02–11:16)

• Doctrine & Covenants 133:56–59: The resurrection and the “song of the Lamb.”
  • Graves as Temporary: Graves will be emptied; “the victory of the Lamb” [08:36, Hank Smith].
• Covenant Confidence:
  • Bro. Jackson discusses “covenant confidence”—an assurance rooted in temple and gospel covenants.
  • “People look at me and probably would think, ‘man... arrogant.’ No, I am covenant confident.” [09:57, Alvin Jackson]
  • The Restoration is seen as a "restoration of covenants." [10:07-10:56]

5. The “Weak Things of the World” (11:16–12:30)

• God Uses the Humble and Ordinary:
  • The Lord “will take those that don't look like they can do much...not the theologians, not the kings and princes of the earth...to spread this gospel.” [11:16, John Bytheway]
  • “I chose you so everyone would know it was me.” [12:22, John Bytheway]

6. The Appendix: Scriptural Intertextuality and Living Water (13:13–15:14)

• D&C 133 as Appendix: A “curtain call” of scriptural references; “This to you was pools of living water.” [13:31, Hank Smith]
• Bro. Jackson’s Conversion:
  • Conversion at age 26, emphasizing the difference daily scripture study made in his life (13:50–14:46).
  • “It was more entertainment than opening up the Scriptures... I knew the Lord, but I know him a lot better now because of the Book of Mormon and Latter Day revelation.” [13:57, Alvin Jackson]

7. Principles of Government in D&C 134 (15:30–32:30)

Historical Context and Content (15:53–19:49)

• D&C 134 Origin: Presented as a declaration of beliefs, not direct revelation—meant to assure the broader public of the Saints’ commitment to republican government and religious liberty.
  • “It distances the church from parties or causes other than sharing the gospel.” [17:44, Alvin Jackson]
• Major Themes:
  • Religious freedom, protection of rights, government’s role to restrain evil and protect conscience (verses 1, 2, 4).

Accountability and Agency (19:49–24:56)

• Self-Government & Accountability:
  • Tie to Book of Mormon’s “Reign of the Judges” (Mosiah 29). Kings can be unrighteous, so personal accountability and collective governance are emphasized.
  • “It enables us to the gift of freedom to choose for ourselves, making our own decisions... Life affords us that opportunity.” [23:37, Alvin Jackson]

Protection of Rights vs. Power Creep (25:44–30:35)

• Power Centralization Warning:
  • Shift from local/state power to Washington, D.C seen as a threat to liberty.
  • “The keystone of preserving freedom is strong local government...We look to Washington, D.C. far too often to solve problems which should be done at the local level.” [27:28, Alvin Jackson]
• God-Given Rights:
  • “I don't get my rights from the government. I get my rights from God...the Bill of Rights was not telling the government more stuff it could do. The Bill of Rights was telling the government stuff it couldn't do.” [29:00–29:36, Hank Smith]

The Inspired Constitution and Preparation for Zion (30:35–31:43)

• Constitution as preparation for Christ’s eventual “perfect rule.”
  • “The constitutional government we're living under is a prelude to the kingdom that the Lord is going to oversee.” [30:35, Alvin Jackson]

Agency, Accountability, and Leadership (32:31–34:18)

• On Power and Moral Leaders:
  • “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely... We want to elect people who reflect our values so that they will look to God's law.” [32:31, Alvin Jackson]

8. Saints’ Experience with Public Perception, Persecution, and Slavery (34:54–37:02)

• Missouri Persecutions Context: The Saints appealed for protection under the law as loyal American citizens, often to no avail.
  • “Missouri was a slave state. The saints coming down there were opposed to it...am I getting that right?” [35:52, Hank Smith]
• Church Policy on Slavery: Explained as a pragmatic, self-protective stance given the times, not an endorsement (36:07–36:50).

9. Civic Duty, Family Teaching, and Preserving Liberty (37:27–47:20)

Individual Responsiblity (37:27–40:22)

• Three Steps to Civic Engagement:
  1. Teach rights come from God.
  2. Prioritize family (teach both gospel and American ideals).
  3. Study the Constitution from the Founders’ perspective.
  • “If you can do those first three things, freedom is a gift from God, not government...then you will know where the Lord needs you to engage.” [38:07–40:17, Alvin Jackson]

Traditions and Gratitude (41:08–42:22)

• Encouraging Traditions: Watching “A More Perfect Union” (BYUtv) on the Fourth of July to help children appreciate America’s founding.
  • “It does make me grateful.” [41:08, Hank Smith]
• Founders’ Flaws and Greatness:
  • The Founders were imperfect but strove towards gradual improvement and abolition of slavery. “Almost everyone in that room knew that slavery was wrong.” [41:36–42:22, Alvin Jackson]

Modern Misconceptions & Historical Revisionism (42:31–45:14)

• On Maligning Founders:
  • Organized efforts to rewrite history and diminish the moral standing of figures like Benjamin Franklin (“the father of morality”) to undermine confidence in the republic. [43:58–44:55, Alvin Jackson]
  • “If you can't attack the doctrine, you go after the personality.” [45:01, John Bytheway & Alvin Jackson]

Teaching the Rising Generation (45:37–47:52)

• Practical Family Tips:
  • Daily devotional texts with scripture, GC quote, and American story sent to adult children keeps heritage alive even when not overtly acknowledged. [45:37–47:20, Alvin Jackson]
  • “It's never too late to start telling our kids these little stories.” [47:20, John Bytheway]

10. Grateful Patriotism, Global Perspective, and Personal Testimony (47:52–55:56)

• Grateful for American Institutions:
  • Stories of seeing poverty and lack of freedom abroad awaken gratitude for U.S. abundance and rights. (48:07–49:57)
• The Role of Stories and Patriotism:
  • “If your children and grandchildren are going to think amber waves of grain are beautiful, it's because you showed them...If they find the patriot dream beautiful, it's because you showed it to them.” [50:02–51:06, John Bytheway]
• Global Application:
  • Religious freedom and protection of the innocent are universal ideals, not just American ones.

11. Final Reflections: The Restored Gospel as Living Water (53:41–55:56)

• Bro. Jackson’s Testimony:
  • The gospel is “delicious”; encourages young people to stay active, build relationships through covenants, and serve.
  • “What the church does for me is put things in perspective because of the knowledge of the plan of salvation. But it also makes me excited about the future...The Gospel of Jesus Christ is delicious to me.” [54:04, Alvin Jackson]

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Dyed Garments Symbolism:
  “Imagine seeing that much red on someone's clothes... it makes me feel reverent.”
  — Hank Smith [03:38]

• On Covenant Confidence:
  “People look at me and probably would think, ‘man, Al, sure is arrogant.’ No, I am covenant confident. That’s what I am.”
  — Alvin Jackson [09:57]

• On the Weak Things of the World:
  “I chose you so everyone would know it was me.”
  — John Bytheway [12:26]

• On Rights and Government:
  “I don't get my rights from the government. I get my rights from God. Right. ...the Bill of Rights was telling the government stuff it couldn't do.”
  — Hank Smith [29:00–29:36]

• On Preserving Liberty:
  “The keystone of preserving freedom is strong local government... Solutions to problems are better created where they emanate. Just like you make decisions around your kitchen table.”
  — Alvin Jackson [27:28]

• On Teaching Patriotism:
  “If your children and grandchildren are going to think amber waves of grain are beautiful, it’s because you showed them.”
  — John Bytheway [50:03]

• On the Restored Gospel:
  “The Gospel of Jesus Christ is delicious to me. I love going to church. I work in the temple. I love being in the temple. ... I can always lean into my covenants when things get difficult and look for opportunities to serve others.”
  — Alvin Jackson [54:04]

Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:09–01:36: Gathering of Israel and Ephraim’s role
• 01:45–04:57: Christ’s return, atonement, and symbolism of red garments
• 08:02–11:16: Resurrection, covenants, and "covenant confidence"
• 15:53–19:49: Origins and message of D&C 134—Saints, government & religious liberty
• 25:44–30:35: Local vs federal government, God-given rights, and constitutional amendments
• 34:54–37:15: Saints’ experience in Missouri, Church and slavery, statements of non-interference
• 37:27–47:52: Practical advice for Latter-day Saints regarding government, civic duty, and family teaching
• 50:02–51:06: On the importance of telling stories to teach patriotism
• 54:04–55:56: Bro. Jackson’s testimony and encouragement to youth

Tone and Takeaways

The episode is rich with reverence, gratitude, and patriotic zeal, balanced by scriptural depth and historical awareness. Bro. Jackson frequently weaves personal experiences with doctrinal and civic principles, encouraging both spiritual and temporal vigilance. The discussion is warm, collegial, and sometimes humorous, but always seeks to inspire responsible discipleship and citizenship.

Intended Audience Benefit:
Listeners will gain:

• Greater understanding of D&C 133–134 in doctrinal, historical and practical contexts.
• Inspiration to treasure religious freedom and civic duty.
• Practical family and personal tips for teaching and living foundational gospel and constitutional principles.
• A heartfelt testimony of the gospel and the power of covenant relationships within and beyond the Church.