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Doctrine & Covenants 29 Part 1 • Brother Eric Richards • March 31 - April 6 • Come Follow Me
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- [00:00]
Hank Smith
Coming up in this episode on Follow Him.
- [00:03]
John Bytheway
First day in the mission field and you're getting pelted with rocks. I can't imagine one of the rocks though hit this young elder right, right in the kidneys, right in the back. In a moment of rage and anger he turned around and back in the day he was a pitcher on his high school baseball team.
- [00:24]
Hank Smith
Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode to Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I am your host. I'm here with my co host John by the way. Listen to this. John, my co host John by the way whose eyes are still in his sockets.
- [00:39]
Eric Richards
Thankfully.
- [00:39]
Hank Smith
Yes, thankfully.
- [00:40]
Eric Richards
Yep, they're still here. Yeah, I got them.
- [00:42]
Hank Smith
John. Doctrine Covenants 29 talks about maggots eating flesh, flesh falling off bones and eyes falling from sockets.
- [00:53]
Eric Richards
A very happy little verse right there.
- [00:56]
Hank Smith
I have a feeling my little boys are going to enjoy this. Our friend Eric Richards is here, one of our favorite people. John. He hasn't been on the show before. Eric, welcome.
- [01:07]
John Bytheway
Thank you both. All you do. This is awesome.
- [01:09]
Hank Smith
John and I have known Eric for man it's been 15 years. Eric has been speaking with FSY. He's the best of E F y years ago. I don't know if either of you remember that with Gary Bauer. Our friend Gary. Eric is one of the best teachers in the church. He's up in Logan teaching at the institute there. John, Eric, we have one section of the Doctrine and Covenants today, Section 29. This is quite a section. It's unlike anything we've seen before. John, what are you thinking going into this?
- [01:44]
Eric Richards
Sometimes we react lol about some things. This is W o l this is a whoa out loud section. Some of the things you see here, including maggots make you go what is this about? But it also has a really nice plan of salvation feel to it from beginning to end. A lot of great information about here. So I hope it gives people some sense of what in the world is going on here type of a thing.
- [02:10]
Hank Smith
I, I have two 12 year old boys and a 15 year old boy so I can't wait to read. The flesh shall fall off their bones and their eyes from their sockets. Right. I think this is. They'll probably say that's my favorite verse so far this year. Eric, as you've prepared. Section 29 what are we going to do today?
- [02:27]
John Bytheway
The beginning is just beautiful verse one. Listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, your redeemer the great. I am whose arm of mercy hath atoned for your sin. Is there a more beautiful first verse of any section. It's all about Christ. All scripture points to our amazing, beautiful Savior, Jesus Joseph Smith. He taught this. The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the apostles and prophets concerning Jesus Christ. That he died, was buried, rose again on the third day and ascended into heaven. And all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it. I think this first verse just testifies of Christ. It's him. It's his voice. He is introducing Himself and His marvelous atonement to us. What a great way to start this section. I was reading last week. A friend of mine and I were texting back and forth. I'm a bit of a word nerd. The word worship is interesting because he's inviting us to worship him. Rightfully so. He is so worthy of our worship. But Old English. The original meaning of the word worship was worth shipping if something was worth shipping. That's where the word worship comes from. And boy, that has changed me. As I think about how I go to church to worship or go to the temple to worship. My effort should be worth shipping to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
- [04:00]
Hank Smith
Wow. I love it. Just verse one. You're feeling the power of this section and I'm sure it's going to continue. John, we mentioned before that Eric hasn't been with us. He's a good friend of both you and me. Introduce him to those listening.
- [04:16]
Eric Richards
Eric has one of the more interesting backgrounds because he grew up attending Mountain View Baptist Church in San Diego. And Eric and his mother were baptized then. Eric later served a mission in Honduras. And so did your son, right? Your son Dawson served there too.
- [04:33]
John Bytheway
Yeah, he did. So fun.
- [04:35]
Eric Richards
He moved to Utah to teach seminary. He played water polo and volleyball at Utah State University. He actually participated in writing online seminary curriculum for a long time. So welcome Eric.
- [04:49]
Hank Smith
Let's read from the Come Follow Me manual. And then Eric, I'm excited to just hand this over to you and you walk us through this section. This is how the Come Follow Me manual starts. Even though the Church of Jesus Christ had been organized in 1830, many gospel truths were still yet to be revealed. And several early church members had questions. They had read the prophecies in the Book of Mormon about the gathering of Israel and the building up of Zion. How would that happen? The revelations Hyrum Page claimed to receive speculated on that subject, which only increased the members curiosity. Other people wondered about the fall of Adam and Eve and spiritual death. The Lord welcomed these questions in 1830 and he welcomes our questions today. Whatsoever ye shall ask in faith, he told the saints, being united in prayer according to my command, ye shall receive. In fact, as the doctrinally rich revelation in section 29 shows, the Lord sometimes responds to our questions by giving us truth and knowledge far beyond what we ask. John, you've said that before. Joseph Smith at some point in his life says, I just wanted to know which church to join.
- [06:01]
Eric Richards
That was it.
- [06:02]
Hank Smith
And look how much, look how much the. The Lord has given me. Eric, with that beginning, how do you want to take on this section?
- [06:11]
John Bytheway
We are encouraged with that introduction to ask questions. That's part of what we do. We're here because a young boy asked a question in a grove back in 1820, and I've noticed with young adults that I am able to be with, sometimes they wonder where do I go to find these doctrines? Like what counts as official doctrine. We've had some really fun discussions in my classes over the last few years about that. And you know, we have our core doctrine that Jesus came, lived, died, rose again. That is our core doctrine. We have some official teachings and those can change with time. Conference talks, Liahona, insign our church materials, websites. We have some supportive teachings that we love. BYU's Religious Studies center is awesome. The RSC, our devotionals. We have BYU campuses, we have policy, kind of policy, doctrine that can change as well. The general handbook, the newsroom side of the church. And then we have kind of those isoteric teachings that are perhaps taught by a few apostles and prophets. Maybe they threw them out there as different ideas and things they were thinking on. But they're interesting, obviously not essential. I think as we search for truth and doctrine, as the introduction to this week's Come Follow Me teaches, it's so important to know where that level of truth fits in big picture, so that we're actually consuming good doctrine, good truths that are eternal and will help us return to our Savior Jesus Christ.
- [07:44]
Hank Smith
This would be what Elder Corbridge called the primary questions. Let's get these first. They're secondary questions that are fun to look at. That talk was called Stand Forever. I have all of my students read that BYU devotional. So, Eric, it seems like we're going to have some first rate primary questions in this section.
- [08:05]
John Bytheway
There are so many because this section, like John said in the introduction, it's a plan of salvation type section, not in chronological order, but boy, these topics are amazing. You know, looking verse two, you know, just his invitation for gathering. It says, he who will gather his people, even as a hen gathereth her chickens. Under her wings. What great imagery of this gathering A couple months ago now you had Chelsea Chipman on with Section 10. She pointed out to us verse 67 of Doctrine and Covenants. 10 Behold, this is my doctrine. Whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me the same as my church. Interesting that anyone that repents and wants to come unto Christ, that is his church. As I was thinking through that Christ, we have evidence of his mission farewell in Luke chapter four. And notice that his topic for his missionary farewell talk was that of restoration and coming unto him. Let me read that. You know the story. He comes to Nazareth where he had been brought up as custom was. He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and stood up to read. There was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. When he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor. He sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised to preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book and he began to say to them, this day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. He wants people to know out of the gates as he begins his ministry that he is here to heal. He is here to promote happiness and peace and provide any type of relief from any ailment that anyone is feeling. This gathering in section 292 I think is the same thing up in Logan. Patrick Mason, he's at Utah State and he has written and said so many things on that topic. And interesting. He pointed out to us at a meeting recently that the term restored church wasn't really used during Joseph's time. It wasn't until 1913 James E. Talmadge used the term restored gospel. It was only used three times before the year 1900. Originally this gathering and restoration was about restoring God's people to him. The term restoration even in the Book of Mormon was more about restoring our souls to our heavenly father. From Alma 11, Alma 42. I love that verse two is an invitation. Look, we're trying to gather you so we can restore you to God. Yes, we are restoring a church and a system and a governance and priesthood keys. The end purpose of that is to restore God's people to him. And what a great introduction from our Savior Jesus Christ.
- [11:08]
Eric Richards
I love that verse you read in Luke 4. Sometimes I'll quiz my students. Hey, what is the best like Old Testament verse you can think of to describe the Savior, after we hum and haw for a minute. You know what? We don't have to choose one, because Jesus chose it. He chose that. And he chose to focus on. He came to heal the brokenhearted. I've always just loved that. It doesn't speak of wrath or judgment or punishment. His focus is, I've come to liberate captives to heal the brokenhearted. Okay, here's a question I've always had for you two about that verse. Did Jesus say, hand me the scroll of Isaiah, or did the minister hand him a random scroll? Or did he deliberately choose that? I've always wondered how that worked, because I think he knew exactly what he was doing, and maybe it was all meant to be, that he got Isaiah 61 right, that verse.
- [11:56]
Hank Smith
Yeah. I think the Lord in the spirit world must say to Isaiah, still love your book? Right? Have it on my bedside stand.
- [12:04]
Eric Richards
Yeah.
- [12:05]
Hank Smith
I think whenever the Lord wants us to learn about him, he says, why don't we read from Isaiah? If it was just handed to him, I think it's the one he would have chosen anyway.
- [12:15]
Eric Richards
Yeah. And I love, Eric that you said that. What did you call it? It's like his announcement of his mission.
- [12:20]
John Bytheway
Yeah. His farewell. Right? Yeah.
- [12:22]
Eric Richards
That's a great way to put it.
- [12:23]
John Bytheway
Yeah. He's starting his mission. This is it.
- [12:26]
Hank Smith
Just on a side note, both of you, we've actually talked about this before we hit the record button. I have noticed, John, our best episodes, my best lessons, my best talks that I've given. If I'm focused on healing, delivering, if I'm focused on those things, I feel good afterwards. But sometimes I've tried to impress. I've thought about, what are people thinking about me? That person in the back, they're observing my class. Do they like what they're hearing? Do I sound smart enough? Those lessons usually fall flat. Obviously, I don't think the Savior intended that. But I do think that there's a pattern there for us as teachers. Focus on what can heal today.
- [13:07]
John Bytheway
And that imagery, that's what the mom chicken does. That's what the hen does. She wants to protect and gather and heal her little chicks. And that's what Christ is inviting us to do and enjoy that peace and safety and protection and mercy and power that comes through his gathering. This section is one of those. It is 50 verses. We can't do all of them. But look at verse four. Verily I say unto you that ye are chosen out of this world to declare my gospel with the Sound of rejoicing and with the voice of a Trump. I had a colleague that overheard a conversation with President Hinckley. They happened to be in the same elevator at the same time. And as they were going up, and that's got to be quite the moment when you're in an elevator with the prophet of God. He's just bantering. He made a comment that my friend mentioned that he felt like there were too many pickle suckers in the church. Just people that were a little bit sour. And granted there are some heavy things in this world. I don't want to minimize those at all. But this idea in verse four that we're supposed to declare the gospel with the sound of rejoicing, it's interesting. All throughout Scripture, you know, we're commanded to be light and yeast and, you know, be the salt of the earth. We're supposed to help those that suffer in any way we possibly can to heal those broken hearts, promote peace and happiness. One of my colleagues, another friend of mine, he used this analogy, I've stolen it. And he heard it from another guy. It's one of those that's maybe been shared here and there. But a lot of my students are in a school there at the university. And so this idea of a scholarship, there's two different scholarships that someone could qualify for. First is the hard working Latter Day Saint scholarship. To qualify for it, you need to be a Latter Day Saint. You have to score above 31 on the ACT. You've got to have a 3.9 GPA or higher. You've got to take at least 12 credits every semester. Each year your progress is re evaluated to see if the scholarship will continue. Hank and John, would you consider that scholarship to be a gift or a reward?
- [15:24]
Hank Smith
Oh, wow, that sounds like work, right? It sounds like payment almost for all that work.
- [15:34]
John Bytheway
Listen to the other scholarship. They called this the Grace Scholarship. First of all, full tuition in addition to tuition, books, fees, a meal plan, free tutoring, a brand new laptop every year, a cell phone upgrade every year, no GPA requirement, no credit, hour minimum, no conditions to keep the scholarship. It's offered freely to all who ask for it. Would you consider that scholarship to be a gift or a reward?
- [16:05]
Hank Smith
That sounds like a gift.
- [16:07]
John Bytheway
That's our gospel. I really think that when the Lord invites us to declare his gospel with the sound of rejoicing, I think that's the message that we need to shout from the rooftops. It's just beautiful. And I think sometimes we get worried about, am I doing enough and baking Enough bread and enough trips to the temple. And am I fasting? Exactly 24 hours. And those things are all good, don't get me wrong. But boy, the gift, that free gift of grace that he's given us is marvelous.
- [16:39]
Hank Smith
Eric, doesn't that just bring to mind Elder Kieran's talk? Welcome to the Church of Joy. He says, we are members of the Church of Jesus Christ. We are members of the Church of Joy. And nowhere should our joy as a people be more apparent than when we gather together each Sabbath in our sacrament meetings to worship the source of all joy. Here we assemble with our ward and branch families to celebrate the sacrament of the Lord's Supper, our deliverance from sin and death, and the Savior's powerful grace. Just what you said, Eric. Here we come to experience the joy, refuge, forgiveness, thanksgiving and belonging through Jesus Christ. My accent's not as good as his, but everyone should go back this week from that verse four, the sound of rejoicing, and listen to that talk.
- [17:29]
John Bytheway
John, if I could pick on you. Verse 5 has one of your favorite principles about him being an advocate. You have taught so much on that topic. Can you insert here just something that you love about him being our advocate?
- [17:43]
Eric Richards
Oh, you're so nice. Elder Holland recently wrote a book called A Witness for His Names. You love words. Went through all of these different names for the Savior. For me right now, advocate is my favorite nickname for the Savior. When you think of an advocate, there's at least three parties involved. There's someone is going to advocate for someone else. The more I've read about it, the more I see it like an advocate is like an attorney for the defense. This verse, along with some others. In fact, I thought we might talk about this, so I opened up. My favorite advocate verse is 1 John 2:1, speaking of joy. And if any man sin, let's say if any woman sin, if any man sin, if any teenager sin, if anyone sin, we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ, the righteous. I mean, talk about good news. That's how this section starts, is so hopeful. Guess what? We have an advocate. Since you asked, there's an artist who did a lot of paintings that we use. I don't think he's a member of our church. I think he was a Seventh Day Adventist named Harry Anderson. Just Google Harry Anderson, Jesus Advocate, and look at that depiction of the final judgment and notice how it fits with the first few verses of section 45 of the doctrine and Covenants, which also mentions our advocate there. When I think of an advocate, I think of someone who rushes to your side to advocate you before the Father. Which is a very hopeful image to imagine.
- [19:25]
Hank Smith
I looked it up before we got here. John, to publicly support a person who represents another person's interest, a person who upholds or defends a person, that's exactly what you want in the Lord.
- [19:41]
Eric Richards
Yeah, what the Savior does there in section 45. I just like to read this. And I know we're going to be coming up on section 45 later, which is another amazing section. But listen to starting in verse three. And this is the Savior talking. Listen to him who is the advocate with the Father, who is pleading your cause before him, saying, father, behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin in whom thou wast well pleased. Behold the blood of thy son which was shed, the blood of him whom thou gavest, that thyself might be glorified. Wherefore, Father, spare these my brethren that believe on my name that they may come unto me and have everlasting life? Or spare these my sisters that believe on my name. And notice he's not saying spare these that, as you just mentioned, Eric, were perfect and fasted for exactly 24 hours. Spare these that believed on my name. Wow, what a hopeful verse. He's not talking about what you did. He's talking about what he did. Being an advocate before the Father for you. Isn't that beautiful?
- [20:48]
John Bytheway
What an awesome introduction by our Savior. Here, the reminders of his goodness. And now turning to verse seven, with these truths, he's inviting us to go and gather. You are called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect. For mine elect hear my voice and harden not their hearts. It's interesting. Historically, the Lord has given truths to people all over the world. He loves all of his children. The First Presidency issued a statement years ago. It says that the great religious leaders of the world, such as Muhammad, Confucius and reformers, as well as even philosophers, including Socrates, Plato and others, received a portion of God's light. These moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten the whole nation and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals. And then they conclude, we believe that God has given and will give to all peoples sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to eternal salvation. I love that the gathering is of all of God's children and that invitation is given. Hank, you have Mason that's going to go and gather the elect in Washington, D.C. south. John, your kids have served, I think, on almost every continent. France and Iceland and Tahiti and West Virginia and Uruguay. I mean, all over. We've seen that firsthand. Me and my sons able to serve. My daughter's looking to go next year. It's delightful. Obviously, that gathering is on both sides of the veil, as President Nelson has taught us. I want to just thank people that have served full time or a service mission, a teaching mission, proselytic mission. If you have invited others to consider the truths of the gospel, I just thank you. If you've gone to the temple to help on that side of the veil. Thank you. It's an awesome work that we're doing. Our ward, we have this little challenge in the fall. We invited everyone to go to the temple. We had a picture of the temple artist drawn and every time someone went, they could put a sticker on. And it became this competition between the Elders Quorum and the Relief Society. And each week there were stickers being put up in our little YSA award of 150. They wound up doing almost 500 ordinances in two months. It's now shifted to indexing. We're using the Get Involved app. If you're unfamiliar with the Get Involved app, just go to wherever you get your apps. Type in Get Involved and it's an AI way to index names. It's through the familysearch and it's awesome. We are going to finish that up here in just a few weeks. Our little ward of 150, it looks like we're going to index about 200,000 names. The electricity knowing that we are providing names to the temple of several stakes worth of people has just been so fun. This gathering that the Lord talks about is so fun. And you are gathers. You've seen people gather.
- [23:44]
Eric Richards
Eric, you started out with that example of a hen. And notice the exact words in verse 2. Who will gather his people even as a hen gathereth? And that is such a wonderful theme that we're hearing. Verse 7. You're called to bring to pass the gathering of mine elect. I don't know about you guys, but after Covid, I'm just thinking about gathering to church again. Wasn't that wonderful? Just to see everybody and think what a blessing it is just to be able to gather.
- [24:11]
John Bytheway
Yeah, it's so true. And we've seen these miracle stories of gathering. It's just so fun to watch the Lord work among his children. I read a couple of stories on this. Jason Hines. This is in the June 2012 New Era magazine. He was one of Jamaica's top runners. Before serving a mission, he was called to New York to the North Mission the coach, of course, told him to stay home. He had too many prospects in terms of running in the next level, but he decided to serve. So one day, they were in Washington Square park in New York. My daughter lived right by there when she was going to school at Columbian. So I've seen this park, and I've tried to picture this moment. His companion said to this group of performers, hey, we've got the fastest runner in New York. Who would like to race him in a race. All of a sudden, this crowd starts to gather together. Poor Elder Hines. Like, what are you doing? What are you doing? No, no, just watch. This young kid came up and said, well, ratio. So they kind of set up this little makeshift starting block. Elder Hines had his jacket on, holding his Book of Mormon. And the other guy said, do you want to take your jacket off, put the book down? Nope, I'm good. So with the mark, set, go. Elder Hines let this guy get a few seconds head start. It wasn't a long race. I'm sure it was probably less than 100 yards. So after waiting a couple of seconds, he decided to take off, ran the guy down, and as he passed him, he held up the Book of Mormon and said, the church is true, bro, and went on to win the race. And because of that, they became very popular in the area. And every time they came across little groups, they would ask for the race. He wrote in this New Era article, I ran 77 races on my mission and never lost one one. It's amazing how the Lord can take our unique gifts and talents and put us in the right place at the right time to enjoy that. Another story Elder Perry tells this. There was a mission present that was called to Brazil, and it was the same mission in which he had served as a young missionary. And he said when he first got there, he and his companion were asked to open a new area. They were just kind of walking around, getting their bearings of this new area when they passed a church. The pastor asked his congregates to follow him out into the street, and he pointed out these two LDS missionaries and started to rile them up. This group grabbed rocks and started chucking them at these poor missionaries. Can you imagine? First day in the mission field and you're getting pelted with rocks. I can't imagine one of the rocks, though, hit this young elder right, right in the kidneys, right in the back. In a moment of rage and anger, he turned around, and back in the day, he was a pitcher on his high school baseball team. And he Elder Perry says he wound up in his famous pitching poles, was ready to let the rock fly when the Holy Ghost said, hey, I didn't send you all this way to throw rocks at people. But he froze because he thought, well, if I just drop the rock, they're going to keep hitting us. What do I do? And the spirit helped, and we're so grateful for the Spirit's help. There was a telephone post off in the distance. And so instead of throwing rocks back at these congregates, he turned and threw this rock right in the center, the dead center of that telephone post. And the people took a step back realizing, wow, he could have hit any of us. Right between the ice. The old David and Goliath story. And then a few of the people picked up rocks, started to throw them at the telephone pole and they tried over and over again. Couldn't hit it, couldn't hit it. One after another, this elder just hit that telephone pole dead center. Well, every time they passed this little church, people would come out and would challenge these missionaries to throwing rocks. And those rock throwing contests turned into missionary discussions which turned into convert baptisms. And I've always wondered, you know, years later, when this young elder is now the mission president, were some of those leaders in that little area, were they some of the rock chuckers from back in the day? What is he good at? He's good at throwing rocks. No matter what our gift, no matter what our talent, we are asked to just bring that to the feet of Jesus. He wants to gather his people together and he can use any amount of talent. If your talent is throwing rocks or running races or, or if you're good at music, or if you're good at ballet or dancing, whatever it is, he can use that gift to forward his work, to bring people to his marvelous son, Jesus Christ.
- [28:35]
Hank Smith
Wow, that is fantastic. And it just, I don't know. Those type of stories are the sound of rejoicing. Declare my gospel with the sound of rejoicing. If every missionary put that verse up in their apartment for a couple of weeks, this is the church of Joy. As Elder Kiron said. I thought of this verse in Moroni 6. The church did meet together oft to fast, to pray, to speak one with another concerning the welfare of their souls. There's something about church for me when we gather and someone is teaching a lesson, a very prepared elders quorum lesson that just, it's refreshing, it's filling, it just gives you that energy that you can do this. John, I've talked before about when I was a young father. And the older elders in the ward would give wonderful counsel and advice. There's something about gathering together to speak to one another about the welfare of our souls.
- [29:41]
Eric Richards
I love that. That verse. It's kind of like Moroni's little handbook of instructions. He said to speak one with another. It isn't that we're just going to listen to one person every week. It's we're going to talk with each other about the welfare of our souls. How you guys doing in your family? How you doing? How do you handle this? Yeah, this is how we've been working on that. And this is how the Savior has helped us with that. That little phrase means a lot to me, that we speak one with another and we have callings and then we play musical callings and we all rotate and we keep going.
- [30:17]
John Bytheway
And I'm personally so grateful, you know, missionaries attracted into me and my mom years ago. Elder Jolly, he was from Australia and served a mission very late. I think he left at age 25, had almost aged out, and during those final months of his mission, was out tracting, being a good missionary, and ran into us. And on a side note, his mission president, very inspired, had him serving with his Elder Jolly, serving with Elder Smiley. And inspiration. Right. In fact, when they knocked on the door, my mom, you know, after the door approached, I'm Elder Jolly. I'm Elder Smiley. We would talk about Jesus. She said, ain't nobody got time for that. She sent him away. And thankfully, one of our. Her dear friends at work said, hey, listen, just get over their names. Listen to their message. It is so good they came back and the rest is history. But I have been nurtured by so many good people, as you quote there from Moroni, that have been just so good to my family growing up. You know, the Plums and touches and, you know, the Jackalonis and Wiselys and Dolores, the list goes on and on. And now, as a dad raising kids, there's people in our wards, luns and Blotters, and, I mean, I could go on and on with all these people that have just been so good. There is a beautiful doctrine here that we take care of each other, that we know each other's names, that we love each other and are there to support each other. So good.
- [31:47]
Hank Smith
Yeah. They shall be gathered unto one place upon the face of the land to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all things. That sounds like a ward family gathered together to one place to prepare in all things for the future.
- [32:03]
John Bytheway
Let's start tackling the second Coming. That's such a Christ centered introduction that he gives in section 29. And then he's going to get into some of these events that are going to happen before his return. In verse 9 he actually quotes from Malachi 4:1 for the hour is nigh and the day soon at hand when the earth is ripe. When something is ripe, it means that it can't get any better, it can only get worse. Picture a fruit that is ripe. It is perfect. It's time. It's not going to get any better, it's only going to get worse to the point where it becomes inedible. His list continues the proud people that put their will in front of God's will, they that do wickedly. In Malachi 4.1there's a footnote for do wickedly and it says sexual immorality. There's going to be a time in our world where we are consumed with sexual immorality and we're seeing that. I'm so grateful for the wording of our temple recommend. Question about do you strive for moral cleanliness? I love that. And obviously the Savior's offer to forgive as we need to seek repentance for having participated in unchaste actions. And then he says this, I will burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that wickedness shall not be upon the earth. I don't know about you, but I have wondered about that because some of these verses are a little bit hard. You think of burning and destruction and that when my daughter went out to New York, this was just after the pandemic started in the subways, they had this cart that they would bring in car by car with a UV light. Literally within just one push of a button, that virus would be killed. I historically have thought about the destruction of the wicked as this drawn out long weeks and months of people just suffering, half dead as it were, for maybe days or weeks. But I wonder if his arrival could be an instantaneous cleansing, almost like that UV light system they had during the pandemic. Because his purpose is it to cleanse or to torture. Ezekiel 33:11 says, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He does not enjoy that at all. It's interesting that all throughout scripture the term that's used most often is cleansing more than destruction. From Luke and Second Thessalonians, even Jacob 5, with the parable of the vineyard, there is a cleansing that takes place. And I'm grateful that he understands that if people have not repented that they will not be able to Endure his presence, and we'll have so many signs leading up to His Second Coming where people can choose to repent and be prepared for his coming.
- [34:55]
Hank Smith
Eric, just as we're getting started here, not very many teachers in the church go ahead and write a book about the Second Coming. Can you just give us this? What happened there? I know it was a while ago, back in 2017, but one of the reasons I invited you on is not only you're an excellent teacher, but you've studied the Second Coming. So what brought that on?
- [35:18]
John Bytheway
I have a friend, Terry White, who I taught with, that just lit a fire within me about the Second Coming. And I picked his brain after school for a couple of years and just became enthralled with it. The more I read, the more I realized this is a hopeful thing. I think a lot of our people worry about the death and destruction and all that. That is part of the process. I wanted to just share a message of hope and goodness about our Savior Jesus Christ and how to prepar for his return. It's just so fun to spread these good messages that we can rejoice in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And once we understand maybe the context and what prophets have said about these events, it becomes a lot more hopeful and a lot less gloom and doom.
- [36:06]
Hank Smith
Yeah, John, I don't remember who it was. We had a guest, I can't even remember how long ago, who said, let's make sure we don't water down sin. Let's call sin sin. Let's call wickedness wickedness. Saith the Lord of hosts that wickedness shall not be upon the earth. If we don't call it what it is, how do we know what the Lord is going to get rid of? Wickedness shall not be upon the earth. So I don't think we need to shy away from that. Like Eric said, we're not about destroying people, but definitions that helps people know where to stand.
- [36:44]
Eric Richards
Yeah. If that's the word that the Lord's going to use that wickedness shall not be upon the earth, I want to.
- [36:51]
Hank Smith
Know what that is.
- [36:52]
Eric Richards
Yeah, yeah.
- [36:53]
John Bytheway
So grateful for those boundaries, you know, in verse 11, then he's going to reveal himself from heaven with power and great glory. Here he comes to the world. This section is not in chronological order, as I mentioned earlier, because in verses 11 to 13, we see here he starts to talk about the millennium all of a sudden, and there's some other events that are going to happen before his appearance. He starts talking about the resurrection of the dead and the millennial reign. There's been so much written on the millennium, and people have asked, can we speed it up? Can we pray extra hard? Elder McConkie and his millennial messiah said no. He's going to come at the appointed time. It's going to happen. It's not going to be ushered in prematurely because people are righteous or it won't be delayed because of iniquity. People have wondered, what will it be like to see Satan? I don't know if there'll be a news broadcast or TikTok videos created when we actually see footage of Satan being bound. It's interesting. The prophet Isaiah, who saw this event, you know, Isaiah 14, 16, 17. He says, they that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee and consider thee saying, is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms, that made the world as a wilderness and destroyed the cities thereof, that opened not the house of his prisoners? Oh, so you are the one. I listened to you, right?
- [38:20]
Hank Smith
I thought you would be taller, better looking or whatever.
- [38:24]
John Bytheway
Will we miss things of the old world when this event happens? I don't think so. Isaiah 65:17. For behold, I create a new heaven and a new earth. The former things shall not be remembered or come to mind. You think of some of the great things of our world. Fresh Krispy Kreme doughnuts. Or maybe it's a crumble cookie or I don't know why I always go to carbs, but I do like carbs. All of that will be forgotten. I think we might joke. Oh, remember how we used to love bacon back in the old world? And now maybe there's a new food and we just rejoice over it. So many promises during this millennial reign of parents, righteous parents, being able to raise their children. Think of those reunions, singleness and childlessness that is gone. Death is overcome. Divorce frustrates life now. But boy, in the end, everything will be made right.
- [39:19]
Hank Smith
Eric, you wrote your book on the book of Revelation. Those last few chapters. They are beautiful. You know, we think of the book of Revelation and the beasts and the woman on the waters. This is Revelation 19:7. Let us be glad and rejoice and give honor to him. For the marriage of the lamb is come, and his wife Israel, his people hath made herself ready. This is Revelation 21:4. God shall wipe away all the tears from their eyes. There shall be no more death, neither sorrow nor crying. Neither shall there be any more pain. And what you said, Eric, for the former things are passed away, right? The former earth is Gone.
- [40:03]
John Bytheway
I can't wait. You think through more. I mean, hundredth birthday parties during the millennium when you turn 100. Isaiah 65:20. There shall be no more there for an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days. For the child shall die an hundred years old, and the sinner, being 100 years old, shall be accursed. Can you imagine that transformation that happens when we turn 100? Can you imagine Grandma's hundredth birthday party and happy birthday, dear Grandma. And then as she blows out the candles, maybe she just transforms into the prime of her life. And what a time life will continue somewhat normally on some levels. In our Old Testament student manual, there's a statement that says, crops will be planted, harvested, eaten, education fostered, will still go to school. Men will continue to care for their own needs and affairs. The advancement during the millennium, though, will exceed anything that men have supposed. Picture the advancements of technology, maybe during the millennium. Picture the truths. Think of the books that we're going to have access to during the millennium. It's going to be quite the time. Of course, jobs might have to shift. Physicians, beauticians, morticians. I think they'll be unemployed. So sorry if you're in those fields, but we'll probably be unemployed as well. Because Isaiah 65:24 says, before they call, I will answer. While they are yet speaking, I will hear. It's interesting that if we have a question during the millennium, before we ask it, we hear the answer. So let's say you're reading the book of Isaiah or the book of Revelation, and I wonder what that means. Oh, but what oh, before they call, I will answer. What a time to be alive. You know, the highlight is of course, Satan being bound. The Book of Revelation talks about that binding. What a time. Section 101 that you'll study later. In that day, Satan shall have no power to tempt any man. First, Nephi 22:15. Because of the righteousness of his people, Satan has no power. It sounds like he will be bound by the power of God, but also by the people of God who choose not to listen to him. President Kimball once taught that when we choose to follow the Savior, Satan is bound in that person's life. At some level, you can start the.
- [42:31]
Hank Smith
Millennium in your home.
- [42:33]
John Bytheway
What an imagery. And people, from the beginning, they've been wondering about different specific events. We teased earlier about knowing the exact day of the 2nd. We don't know. I mean, no man knoweth the day, nor the hour. People have wondered throughout history Was it the burning of Jerusalem? Was it in 1666? The great fire of London? Mary Bateman, I was reading this in Preparation for today, 1806, she had chickens that were laying eggs that said on them, the eggs had written on them the message Christ is coming. And it kind of went 1806 viral. People came from all over. This lady has chickens laying eggs that say Christ is coming. She would charge people a penny to look at one of these eggs. Turned out, I feel bad for the chickens, that Mary would take the egg, write the message Christ is coming, and it would actually reinsert the egg. And it was this great big hoax. But people bought into it. They really thought that it was a thing, that Christ was going to come in 1806 and World War I. People thought, 1914, this is the event, he's going to come soon. And of course you remember Y2K, the year 1999. What's going to happen when we hit the year 2000 and the Mayan calendar back in December 2012? Is that going to be the end of the world? Because their calendar ended. And Even last year 2024, with that total solar eclipse seven years after the previous one where it crisscrossed the nation and happened to go over Missouri and oh, there it is, X marks the spot. That's going to be a sign. And we're going to have that second coming. And nothing happened. So people have tried to figure out when this is going to happen. We simply do not know.
- [44:11]
Hank Smith
Eric, let me follow you here. So you said between verse 13 and 14 we switch, is that right? So he was talking about the millennium and how great it's going to be a crown of righteousness. You're going to be with me, we're going to be one. And then you're saying in verse 14, we now jump backwards, is that right? To before he comes.
- [44:32]
John Bytheway
Yeah. And much like the book of Revelation, the first couple of chapters are his witness of Jesus and then we have his letters and then it goes to the signs of the times. But then all of a sudden there's this big break in Chapter 12 of Book of Revelation. It go back to the pre earth life of where this war began. And then in 13 and 14 that this beast and this dragon. And what's it going to be like in the latter days with wickedness? And then finally it's not until chapter 19 that we have the second coming and chapter 20, the millennium within resurrection. John had a very similar vision that it was not chronological. I don't know why the Lord doesn't have a chronological list of events. I wonder if he's worried about a checklist mentality among his children. He scatters these truths all throughout. Maybe so that we turn to scripture to try to piece things together.
- [45:23]
Hank Smith
If I'm just making a mark, I might mark between 13 and 14 that there's been a shift.
- [45:29]
John Bytheway
In that same verse 14 it says that there shall be greater signs in heaven above and in the earth beneath. Our prophet President Nelson has echoed almost the same words. This is one of his first talks after he was sustained. Our Savior and redeemer, Jesus Christ will perform some of his mightiest works between now and when he comes again. We miraculous indications that God and his Father and his Son Jesus Christ preside over this church in majesty and glory. We've seen so much since 2018 in terms of seeing God's mightiest works. And I think we will continue to see those leading up to his appearance to the world.
- [46:12]
Eric Richards
I just wanted to look at the very end of 13 and get this atonement message. The very last phrase in verse 13 even as I am to be with me that we may be one. That was the great intercessory prayer. Like the point of all of it is that we can be one with Christ. How's that accomplished? The at onement or the atonement?
- [46:36]
Hank Smith
Eric? I wonder if the Lord is showing us the end. So the middle seems it's going to get dark here but we already know it's going to be light here at the end.
- [46:46]
John Bytheway
Love that. Section 76. Very much the same way outlined in terms of our vision. And that order must. It obviously is inspired. These are the words of Jesus Christ Right back to verse one of section 29 here.
- [46:58]
Hank Smith
Yeah. So let me show you what it's going to be like. Now let's get into. It's going to be dark. Isn't that the next few verses?
- [47:05]
John Bytheway
We have verse 16. A great hailstorm sent forth to destroy the crops of the earth. Revelation 8:7 talks about how it's fire mingled with blood. I'm not sure how that works. There could be a studio C about how that could work. Revelation 16:21 says that these stones are the size of a talent. Talent is 76 pounds. Picture a bowling ball. Average bowling ball. I don't know. 13, 14, 15 pounds. This is a 76 pound hailstone mixed with fire and blood. When I was going to school there was a meteorologist and he took the molecular density of ice and hail and his estimations showed that this hail ball would be 20 1/2 inches in diameter and would travel at a terminal velocity of 200 mph. Can you imagine the destruction that's going to happen to crops.
- [48:02]
Hank Smith
That would flatten a building?
- [48:05]
John Bytheway
Verse 17. Because of the wickedness of the world, I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent. And this is so, so good to underscore here. Remember who gets cleansed. Well, it's the telescopel people that are living a telescopel type lifestyle that they love to sin and they have no interest in repenting. Back in section five, verse 19, the Lord says if they repent not, the Lord is going cleanse those that do not want to repent, that maybe they know about repentance, but they have no interest in changing their lives. But it's interesting. The Lord's mercy is so good. All throughout the Old Testament, especially Ezekiel saw these in days. Oftentimes he would say, in fact, it's used 50 times in the Bible alone. In that day they shall know that I am the Lord, their God. There will be so many signs, great signs, great wonders, his mightiest works. It will be so obvious that there is a God. It will be so obvious that someone is coming. This is going to happen. People will have a full knowledge that Christ is coming. Despite that, they choose not to repent. This is not a sneak attack with these hailstones. There'll be plenty of signs and warnings along the way and he is just inviting people, come, come repent, let me cleanse you. And if they'll listen, they're going to be spared. If not, they're going to have to be cleansed in preparation for the return of our Savior.
- [49:31]
Hank Smith
John, do you remember section 19 where the Lord says, I don't want you to suffer, Please repent, Please repent. It's not that the Lord says, oh, this is my favorite part. He's giving, like Eric said, plenty of warnings saying that wickedness, that whole system is coming down. I don't want you to be in there.
- [49:54]
Eric Richards
The phrase he uses, I think I, God, have suffered these things for all that they might not suffer if they would repent. And Eric, thanks for reading that. They will not repent. Those always jump out at me. What's the difference between will not and cannot? Yeah, you made a deliberate choice not to repent and you're invited all the time to repent. God is merciful to repentance. So three cheers. Let's repent.
- [50:19]
Hank Smith
Eric, as a scripture teacher, as we get into these next verses about maggots and flesh falling off bones, how do you, as a teacher, help your students see between the figurative and the literal? Sometimes something is figurative, sometimes it's a symbol, and then other times it's literal. As a teacher, how do you do that? I know it's not always clear cut.
- [50:43]
John Bytheway
I think there's a pattern. I've seen that if there is an isolated prophecy or vision or even principle, if it's just one time, I don't put as much weight into it. But if it's multiple prophets, multiple visions, seeing the exact same thing, I think there's something there. And verses 18, 19, and 20, these are gross verses. I mean, it's maggots and flies and flesh falling off bones that might happen. This is a revelation from the Lord himself. It is isolated and I'm just curious. I don't know what will happen, if it will be literal in verses 18 through 20, because it seems like this is the only time that those words are used.
- [51:28]
Eric Richards
When I looked at the footnotes there, like footnote 18A says a plague. That sounds like what happens during a plague of some kind.
- [51:37]
Hank Smith
Eric, with that, I'm looking at verses 14 through 21. At least to me, as I read it, it seems like a description of the Fall. That we have this Garden of Eden state, then we have the fall of Adam and Eve. And it could be a list of things that happen with the Fall. Wickedness, weeping and wailing, death coming upon people, a great and abominable church. It just seems that the Lord is saying, you're already in this. You experience the Fall every day.
- [52:12]
John Bytheway
I think one of the biggest indicators of the Fall is this mindset towards things that are not celestial. You mentioned verse 21, this abominable church. In Revelation 13 and kind of 17 and 18 we learned about this beast. And the more I've read, especially commentaries from our beloved prophets and apostles, it seems like this beast is a mindset. Yes, there will be an Antichrist that will be a spokesperson for the beast, but there's an ideology towards wickedness. Revelation 17:1 4. The great whore that sitteth upon many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, having a golden cup in her hands full of abominations, and filthiness of her fornication. Elder McConkie taught this is in his doctrinal New Testament commentary. All the governments of the earth are at league with the great whore. From time to time they do such things as and let's see if this is happening in our lifetimes. Prohibit the worship of God, deny freedom of religion, Belief to all their citizens, fail to guarantee the free exercise of conscience, enact laws that curtail the agency of man, require the teachings of false principles and their education systems deny the representatives of certain churches the right to teach their doctrine. They fail to punish crimes and protect the rights of their citizens. This ideology, this beast, is among us. We have to be careful. We have different messages, temptations that are inviting and enticing us to do things that heavenly Father has begged us not to do. He's so hopeful that we become more and more like his son. It's a slippery slope. We have to be so careful that we are in the gospel, that we're having gospel study every day, that we're teaching gospel principles to our children, that we gather at church to edify each other. Because this beast is serious. This ideology, its goal is to tear down God's children.
- [54:13]
Hank Smith
Eric, this mindset is something the Lord is not okay with. It sounds like Hank.
- [54:19]
John Bytheway
I wonder if one reason why President Nelson has invited us to think celestial is because of this beast, this mindset. Obviously he's very familiar with scripture. He's inviting us to have that celestial mindset so we are prepared for the return of God's son.
- [54:37]
Hank Smith
I would like to ask you both a question. It seems that, you know, sometimes we have the idea of, oh, I'll just spend some time in Babylon and then I'll get out of there, I'll come over to Zion. I think the scary part is, Eric, about this mindset, that it really can change your nature. It can really change the way you think and what you desire. Is that something both of you might agree with or am I off on that?
- [55:04]
John Bytheway
There's no doubt that it's a slippery slope. Whatever we think on, we ultimately become. Why do we read scripture? Why do we attend the temple? Why do we study the gospel? I think we're just trying to fill our minds with thoughts that are celestial and Christ centered to help us combat these latter day points of wickedness.
- [55:25]
Eric Richards
I like the phrase of you guys both. Remember how Amalickiah poisoned Lahonti? What was the phrase?
- [55:33]
Hank Smith
Yeah, by degrees.
- [55:35]
Eric Richards
By degrees. And I think, and in the same way, sometimes by degrees, we can be affected by what we're surrounded by. A lot of worldly ideas. I love what Sherry Dew said. Go to sources that only speak truth. And that's why our scriptures are so important, to keep us grounded in truth.
- [55:54]
Hank Smith
Yeah. John, didn't you teach the parable of the marinade for a long time? What you surround yourself with becomes part of you.
- [56:02]
Eric Richards
Yeah. I don't know if you guys have ever met Dallin Bayless. He's been in a lot of church productions. He's played, I think, probably Hiram a lot. I think he's Alma the elder and what on some of the church videos. But he was the phantom in the traveling group of the Phantom of the Opera. Just terrific singer. I mean, if you ever felt intimidated, have Dallin Bayless sing Bring Him Home, Bring the House down, and then you're next. And I can do Barney Fife, but I can't sing. Anyway, we got on a plane to go home. I asked him what he was doing these days and if he was still traveling. He said, actually, I'm teaching seminary. And this was many years ago. I don't know what he's doing now. But he said that his mentor had told him something in the, I guess, the music business. And he said, d, regardless of your original intention, you will eventually become what you surround yourself with. And I had to get out of paper and write that down. But that was the basis of that whole idea, Hank, of that what you marinate in, you become what you marinate in. And we gotta marinate in the right stuff.
- [57:13]
Hank Smith
Eric, I like that you called that a mindset. I think that's wise.
- [57:17]
John Bytheway
You know, as you look at verse 22, I'm curious if that's what causes verse 22 to happen. Verily I say unto you that when the thousand years are ended, men again begin to deny their God. It's as if they have forgotten the thousand years and they start to make choices. Some people refer to this as the battle of Gog and Magog. And, Hank, you mentioned these shifts in timeline. This seems to be another shift. Now we're going into the last moment of the millennium leading up to the final judgments that will occur. I read this poem. When you get to heaven, you will likely view many folks whose presence there will be a shock to. But keep it very quiet. Do not even stare. Likely there'll be many folks surprised to see you there. I know that'll be me. But what a moment to stand and have an accounting of what you have become. Elder Oaks has that famous talk about, it's not sum total, it's just, what have you turned into? And I think turning into a celestial creature begins with thinking celestial thoughts.
- [58:28]
Hank Smith
Eric, I love that poem. I think my 9th grade math teacher at Snow Canyon Middle School will be shocked and amazed if she sees me in the celestial realm.
- [58:40]
John Bytheway
Let's look next at verses 23 to 26. The end shall come the Heaven and the earth shall be consumed and pass away. There shall be a new heaven and a new earth. The old things are passed away. All things shall become new. Michael the archangel is going to sound his trump. All the dead awake. Their grace shall be opened. They shall come forth, yea, even all this moment of resurrection. Can you imagine? Elder Holland gave a talk years ago, like a broken vessel this October 2013. The Beauty and majesty he wrote. One day, loved ones whom we knew to have disabilities and mortality will stand before us, glorified and grand, breathtakingly perfect in body and mind. What a thrilling moment that will be. I do not know whether we will be happier for ourselves that we've witnessed such a miracle, or happier for them that they are fully perfect and finally free at last. What a day this is going to be. In verses 23 to 26. In fact, President Snow, he said, there's nothing grander than a resurrected body. Do you have plans for the resurrection? Where do you want to be when this moment happens? I want to be at a gravesite. Oh, take me to the graveyard. I just want to watch those reunions. People that suffered from mental unwellness, people with special needs, people with bodies that didn't function properly, people that are missing arms or organs. Can you just imagine what it must feel like for them and to be enveloped into the arms of their loved ones? And what a sight it will be to behold.
- [60:22]
Hank Smith
John, both you and I have lost both of our parents. And what a day. What a day, right? To hear those voices again, to talk. And how have you been?
- [60:36]
Eric Richards
I know. What have you been doing?
- [60:40]
Hank Smith
I can't imagine the joy for parents who have lost children. Can you imagine the reunions? The Lord must smile at that idea of all of us seeing those we long to see, to see them again and to embrace them and hear their voice and laugh with them.
- [60:59]
Eric Richards
That's like the phrase, there's hope smiling brightly before us. There's so much hope before us, there's so much anticipation before us that helps us get through the hard todays when we think of what's. What's coming.
- [61:14]
Hank Smith
Here's a thought from Joseph Smith. I've always loved. All your losses will be made up to you in the resurrection, provided you continue faithful by the vision of the Almighty. I have seen it. More painful to me are the thoughts of annihilation than death. If I have no expectation of seeing my father, mother, brother, sisters and friends again, my heart would burst in a moment and I should go down to my grave. The expectation. I love that he says that the expectation of seeing my friends in the morning of the resurrection cheers my soul and makes me bear up against the evils of life. It is like they're taking a long journey and on their return we meet them with increased joy. Isn't that beautiful?
- [62:01]
John Bytheway
Sign me up for that.
- [62:02]
Eric Richards
I want to see kind of anticipating those reunions. We just in my elders quorum talked about a general conference talk Elder Brooke P. Hales gave. He said, I had a dream I've never forgotten. In my dream I was sitting in my office at the church administration building. Mom entered the office. She had passed away. I knew she had come from the spirit world. I will always remember the feelings I had. She did not say anything, but she radiated a spiritual beauty that I had never experienced and which I have difficulty describing. Her countenance and being were truly stunning. I remember saying to her mother, you are so beautiful. Referencing her spiritual power and beauty. She acknowledged me again without speaking. I felt her love for me and I knew that she is happy and healed from her worldly cares and challenges and eagerly awaits a glorious resurrection. I know that for mom mortality worked and that it works for us too. That was the title of his talk. Mortality works. So many stories like that too. That kind of a pre resurrection glimpse of a reunion.
- [63:11]
Hank Smith
I think you would both agree that that future day is something worth living for. I'm holding on to that expectation and how I live today is going to affect that day. I don't know. There's a strength in that. There's an energy in that.
- [63:27]
John Bytheway
I want verse 27. The righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life. What a promise. Are either of you left handed?
- [63:37]
Hank Smith
I am not.
- [63:39]
John Bytheway
11% of the population is left handed. I'm a lefty. So when I read verses about the right hand, I get worried. You think of that right hand? How often use it? Each week with sacrament we use our hands in the temple and other ordinances. There's something beautiful about being on God's right hand, that covenant hand. President Nelson taught that one of the greatest compliments we could receive in mortality is to be known as being a covenant keeper. Our apostles and prophets, they have invited us to come join that gathering on his right hand. Hank, you read part of Elder Karen's talk. Let me read another paragraph. Our Father's beautiful fabulous plan is designed to bring you home, not to keep you out. No one has built a roadblock and stationed someone there to turn you around and send you away. God is in relentless pursuit of you. He employs Every possible measure to bring you back. Isn't that so good? Elder Cornish, a few years earlier this is 2016. Let me be direct and clear. The answers to the question, am I good enough? Will I make it? Are, yes, you're going to make it. You are good enough. Yes, you're going to make it. As long as you keep repenting and do not rationalize or rebel. The God of heaven is not a heartless referee looking for any excuse to throw us out of the game. He's our perfect, loving father who yearns more than anything else to have all of his children come back home, home and live with him. That promise of being gathered is amazing.
- [65:16]
Hank Smith
That's wonderful.
- [65:18]
Eric Richards
That phrase, God is in relentless pursuit of you, kind of goes along with, this is my work and my glory. And sometimes we read that this is your job and your glory to bring, to pass the immortality, eternal life of your children and you are failing. We read it totally wrong. But he says, that's not your work. It says my work. Love that. Elder Kieran said, God is in relentless pursuit of you and your children. That gives a lot of hope to people. I hope.
- [65:46]
Hank Smith
Eric. John, I can hear a parent at home with children who are no longer active, who are not living God's commandments, and they're thinking, oh, no, right. They're not going to be on the right hand of. Right hand of God and I'm going to lose this child. So what would you say to anyone who's home feeling their, their, you know, chest tighten and their heart racing, that they're going to lose that child? John, I liked what you said there, which is, this is God's work, God's glory. That's his child.
- [66:18]
Eric Richards
Yeah, I know how you love Zenos's allegory in Jacob 5. Zenas's allegory is the A of a Q and A. The Q is in Jacob 4. How is it possible that these, after having rejected the head of the corner, will ever be built upon it? And. Well, because God is a really good gardener and he knows when to prune and he knows when to wait and he is in relentless pursuit of these olive trees. He doesn't want to lose one. It helps me just to think this is his work, his glory, and he is really good at what he does and be available, be attuned to promptings, keep the faith. You keep going and you let him do his work.
- [67:06]
John Bytheway
The prodigal son, as he sat in that pigsty, I mean, having spent and wasted all of his inheritance living among pigs, what's the thing that allowed him to return home, or even to think, to return home.
- [67:21]
Eric Richards
He knew he could come back.
- [67:23]
John Bytheway
He knew his dad loved him, that he could. He would always be welcomed home. No family is perfect. If anyone has children that are struggling, wondering about the Gospel, if they're on their own journeys, I think the thing that's going to bring them home is that love. If we love them with unconditional love, I think they'll be encouraged to come home because it's a reflection of the love that Heavenly Father has for them.
- [67:50]
Hank Smith
That's fantastic, John. Eric, I love what you said there. When I think of someone listening who thinks, oh, no, oh no. I think what both of you said can calm that heart. That's the Lord's child. He loves that child more than you do. In the words of Joseph Smith, he has made ample provision for that child's redemption. One more thought on this comes from Stephen Robinson, which Eric, you channeled your Stephen Robinson in that saying. This is a mindset. He was writing on Nephi's vision, which is very similar, right, Eric, to what we're reading today. He says, just as there are those on the records of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who belong to the great and abominable Church by virtue of their loyalty to Satan and his lifestyle. Eric would say mindset. So there are members of other churches who will eventually belong to the Lamb by virtue of their loyalty to him and to his lifestyle, which will lead to their accepting the saving ordinances. And then this. I ask every parent who says, what am I going to do about this child? I ask them about their child's heart. Is their heart good? And every time, oh, yeah, they're such a good person. They love their neighbors, they love their family. Brother Robinson said, the distinction is based on who has your heart, not on who has your records. I've always loved that, that you can look at a child who's maybe not active in the church, but their heart is good and the Lord has their heart.
- [69:30]
John Bytheway
There's so much time. There's so much time. Yes, we want to repent quickly, but, boy, in the eternal scheme of things, there's plenty of time for God to continue that rescue mission for his children.
- [69:40]
Hank Smith
And like you said, Eric, the prodigal son, his father waits, but when he sees him bright, full sprint right at him.
- [69:49]
Eric Richards
And remember, Hank four years ago, section 46, verse 15, that the Lord suits his mercies according to the conditions of the children of men. A teenager growing up in the 70s like me is different than a teenager growing up in the 2000 and 20s. It's a different world. The conditions are different, and the Lord suits his mercies for that. Please join us for part two of this podcast.