Podcast Summary: followHIM – Doctrine & Covenants 93 Part 1

Guest: President Steven J. Lund
Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Episode Date: August 20, 2025
Focus: Doctrine & Covenants Section 93 (Come, Follow Me: Aug 25-31)

Main Theme

This episode dives deep into Doctrine and Covenants section 93, exploring its profound theological insights about the nature of God, the process of spiritual growth “grace for grace,” and the experience of light and truth in Latter-day Saint life. With President Steven Lund (former Young Men General President) as guest, Hank and John reflect on Section 93’s relevance, stories from the global Church, and personal testimony.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Miraculous Depth of Section 93 (02:01–05:10)

• Section 93 as “Theologically Beyond” Joseph Smith’s Age:
  • John marvels at the complexity of Section 93, given Joseph Smith's age and background:

    “This one is so theologically beyond anything that Joseph Smith by himself could have come up with that its text is a testimony of itself.” (02:23–02:54)

• Restoration in a Fertile Context:
  • President Lund compares the School of the Prophets to the philosophical and political discussions among the American Founding Fathers, illustrating how the environment enabled the Restoration:

    "Some of the greatest minds of our time were sitting around in little schoolhouses in Kirtland, pulling together the philosophical and doctrinal bulwark around which the kingdom would be born." (03:40–04:29)

2. Personal Experiences with Divine Light (08:51–17:45)

• Seeing the Face of God: Accumulated Flashes of Light:

  • President Lund relates a personal story (the "flashes of light" metaphor) about spiritual witness coming in small, accumulated moments, not grand visions:

    "Throughout my life, I had seen little flashes of divine providence...I know what I know...because of what I've experienced." (12:20–15:30)

  • Cites Alexander Dushku's Conference talk; highlights the value of journaling these experiences.

    "My wife refers to it as the 'me too talk'...anybody who listens to that notion...can say 'oh, wait, I've had that experience, too.'" (16:59)

• Elder Ballard’s Gold Flecks Analogy:

  • Hank recounts Elder Ballard’s story of accumulating flecks of gold, drawing a parallel to spiritual growth:

    “The patient accumulation of these little flecks has brought me great wealth...by small and simple things are great things brought to pass.” (17:45–19:24)

3. The Line Upon Line Pedagogy & Global Church Growth (19:51–40:41)

• Faith Built a Little at a Time:

  • President Lund shares experiences from Africa and Pakistan, emphasizing that line-upon-line learning and growth are central to “the plan of happiness.”

    “Great plan of happiness is a line upon line pedagogy, isn’t it?...This is where we came from. The very point of us being here is that we’re going to act by faith..." (19:51–20:17)

• Finding Saints at the Headwaters of the Nile:

  • Tells story of visiting Uganda, witnessing the Church’s growth in foundational, almost biblical circumstances:

    "The gathering of Israel is happening in amazing places and an amazing pace." (24:05)

• Modern Pioneers:

  • Describes Mongolian saints reenacting pioneer treks, forging literal and figurative connections to early Church history.

    “These are true pioneer saints who are trying to connect themselves in a visceral way with the original pioneer saints…” (25:36–26:00)

• Youth Responding Worldwide:

  • Cites President Nelson and Elder Oaks on historic increases in youth engagement, mission service, and temple attendance.

    "There are twice as many young men and young women today holding temple recommends as there were 10 years ago…" (27:43–29:00)

• Pakistan FSY:

  • Chronicles remarkable faith and sacrifices among the youth in Pakistan, culminating in the story of “Jabber John.”

    "[Jabber John] rips his oxygen mask off, sits straight up in bed and says, 'Oh, no, I am determined to go,' and then faints back into bed...It's emblematic of the whole spirit of this place." (36:11–40:41)

4. Light, Truth & the Nature of Christ (41:12–51:45)

• Everyone Comes Enlightened:

  • Discusses Section 93:2: “I am the light that enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world.”

    "...every man cometh into this world enlightened by the light of Christ." (41:12–42:40)

• Philosophical Dilemmas, Resolved by Revelation:

  • References Truman Madsen and Richard Bushman on Joseph Smith’s ability to “untie Gordian knots” through revelation.

    "Joseph Smith would untie Gordian knots in an afternoon...Problems that people had wrestled with for thousands of years." (44:57–45:05)

• Grace for Grace – How Christ & We Progress:

  • The meaning of “grace for grace” for Christ and for all.

    “If he was truly going to make true on his promise...he would enable our return by coming himself...How does he learn and grow and still be him?” (47:15–49:07)

• Creeds vs. Restoration Clarity:

  • Contrasts confusion of creeds with the clarity of revealed doctrine about Jesus’ divinity and nature.

    “If your foundation is going to be Greek philosophy, you’re going to end up with gaps in your theology. If your foundation is theology...you can pick and choose from Greek philosophy...” (50:15–50:56)

5. Knowing & Approaching God: The Reality of Prayer (51:49–57:02)

• The First Presidency & the Importance of Prayer:
  • President Nelson’s counsel: “You must teach them to pray—to whom it is they pray and the language of prayer.” Emphasizes reverence and intentionality in approaching Deity.

    “If you could see who it is...we would bring the most elevated speech and the most humble attitudes that we could muster.” (53:11–54:45)

  • Encourage youth to pray as if stepping through the veil, through the Savior, to the Father.

6. Spiritual Development is Childlike—But Eternal (57:02–59:08)

• “Come Up, See Me, Talk to Me”:
  • Section 78: children with much ahead, but “the battle is already won—don’t give up.”
• Humility & Openheartedness:
  • Quotes Henry Eyring Sr. and Hugh Nibley on the limits of mortal knowledge and the power of repentance and forgiveness.

7. Light and Truth—Perishable and Renewable (59:08–End)

• Testimony Needs Nurture:
  • President Lund’s reflection: Testimony fades without continual effort—personal scripture study, especially the Book of Mormon, is vital.

    "Testimony and conviction is somewhat perishable...This is one of the reasons that we need to be in the Book of Mormon every day." (60:12)

• The “Non-Transactional” Covenant:
  • Lund relates a powerful story from his son’s illness, learning that faithfulness continues even in spiritual darkness:

    “So, Steve, is that your deal with Heavenly Father? You’re going to be faithful...as long as he’ll keep the light turned on...? And as I talked to myself...No. I have placed my bet. I’ve made promises. And if I never feel the spirit again, I’m going to stay the course.” (60:58–65:36)

• Spiritual Light or Darkness Is a Choice:
  • Choosing obedience leads to more light; disobedience allows the adversary to diminish it.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• President Lund’s “Flashes of Light” Metaphor

  “Throughout my life, I had seen little flashes of divine providence...I know what I know...because of what I’ve experienced.” (15:10–15:30)

• Elder Ballard’s Gold Flecks

  “Son, it seems to me you are so busy looking for large nuggets that you’re missing filling your pouch with these precious flecks of gold.” (18:08)

• On the “Grace for Grace” Progression

  “The great plan of happiness is a line upon line pedagogy…” (19:51)

• On Pioneering Saints in Mongolia

  “…These are true pioneer saints who are trying to connect themselves in a visceral way with the original pioneer saints…” (25:36)

• On Youth and FSY in Pakistan:

  “‘Oh, no. I am determined to go.’…It’s emblematic of the whole spirit of this place.” (39:45)

• President Nelson’s Counsel on Prayer

  “You must teach them to pray—to whom it is they pray and the language of prayer…I feel that we’ve become far too casual in the way that we approach the throne of God.” (53:11–54:45)

• Personal Covenant during Darkness

  “…is that your deal with Heavenly Father?…No. I have placed my bet. I’ve made promises. And if I never feel the spirit again, I’m going to stay the course.” (61:00–65:36)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:23 – Section 93 and Joseph Smith's “pen of heaven”
• 12:20 – “Flashes of Light” personal testimony story
• 17:45 – Elder Ballard’s gold flecks analogy
• 24:05 – Church experiences at the headwaters of the Nile
• 27:43 – President Nelson on this generation's role in the Gathering of Israel
• 36:11 – FSY in Pakistan, Jabber John’s story
• 41:12 – Section 93:2 and the light of Christ
• 47:15 – Grace for Grace, Jesus’ progression
• 53:11 – President Nelson’s instruction on prayer
• 60:12 – Testimonies are “perishable”—Book of Mormon is a daily necessity
• 61:00 – Lund’s story of faithfulness during son’s illness

Tone & Style

Throughout, the hosts and President Lund maintain a warm, conversational, and reverently humorous tone—mixing doctrinal depth with stories that are both uplifting and down-to-earth. They candidly share personal faith experiences and practical insights for living gospel principles in today’s world.

Conclusion

This episode offers a spiritually enriching discussion on Doctrine & Covenants 93, illustrating how divine truth and personal testimony are accumulated “grace for grace” through daily choices and humble faith. It’s filled with memorable stories—from modern saints in Africa, Mongolia, and Pakistan, to deeply personal reflections on conversion, prayer, and perseverance—making the theological principles of Section 93 come alive in practical, profoundly human ways.