Genesis 6–11; Moses 8 Part 2 • Bro. Michael Cottle • Feb. 9-15 • Come, Follow Me

Summary

Podcast Summary: followHIM

Genesis 6–11; Moses 8 Part 2 • Bro. Michael Cottle • Feb. 9-15 • Come, Follow Me

Release Date: February 4, 2026
Hosts: Hank Smith & John Bytheway
Guest: Bro. Michael Cottle

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Overview

In this episode, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, and guest Michael Cottle continue their exploration of Genesis 6–11 and Moses 8 as part of the LDS Come, Follow Me curriculum. They delve deeply into the symbolism of Noah’s Ark, connecting it to modern temple worship, family covenants, and the ways believers can find reprieve from chaos through Christ. The conversation organically blends scriptural analysis, personal testimony, emotional reflections, and practical advice for finding spiritual safety in turbulent times.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Protecting Our Homes as Temples (00:07–04:13)

• Elder David Stone’s Manhattan Temple analogy: Michael reads Elder Stone’s account of the temple’s serene silence amid noisy NYC, comparing the temple’s construction to how we can insulate our lives from worldly influences.
  • "We can create the real Zion among us by limiting the extent to which Babylon will influence our lives." – Elder Stone (Read by Mike, 00:34)
  • The home should mirror the sacredness of the temple; if you wouldn’t show something in the temple, should you have it in your home?
    • "If you wouldn't show it in the temple, would you show it at home? Oh, John, you're killing me." – Mike (02:18)
  • The light tone shifts as the hosts joke about the “guilt trip” induced by this high standard (02:50).

Noah’s Ark as Archetype of the Temple (04:13–10:31)

• The Ark as ‘Axis Mundi’: Hank introduces the concept of the temple (and the Ark) as a connection between heaven and earth, seen in various cultures (03:00).
• Structural symbolism:
  • The Ark’s dimensions parallel the tabernacle and temple, including three levels, evoking celestial, terrestrial, and telestial layers (05:01–06:32).
  • Emphasis on specific instructions from God as patterns for sacred spaces.
• Covenant imagery: Entering the Ark symbolizes entering the covenant—salvation is found ‘IN’ the Ark, not near or around it (06:59).
  • "If we want to be spared the chaos, destruction of this world... we've got to go in into this ark or this covenant. The temple covenants again. It's not the checklist of just going. It's not a matter of just going to the temple, but it's doing with our heart going into this ark as a symbol." – Mike (07:34)
• Profane means "outside the temple": Discussion on how worlds outside the Ark/temple are less sacred; profane (etymology: profanis) = outside the temple (08:42–09:03).

The Power, Protection, and Pain Inside the Ark (10:31–19:32)

• Symbolism of entering (the Ark, temple) repeatedly emphasized: The repetition in Genesis echoes the necessity of entering sacred spaces often for safety (10:31–12:18).
• Personal grief and testimony: Michael shares the loss of his son, connecting the chaos of life (“waters prevailing”) to personal tragedy.
  • The temple is a source of solace and connection, more so for him than visiting gravesites (16:40).
  • "For me personally, if I want to connect, I go to the ark, I go to the temple." – Mike (17:01)
• Grief and faith: The struggle of experiencing both grief and joy; hope in seeing loved ones again because of Christ and temple covenants (17:49–19:45).
• On expectation of reunion:
  • "It's not a hope, even though hope is strong, it's an expectation. It's in the plan." – Mike (19:32)

Repentance and Light in Darkness (21:13–22:58)

• Nephi and Lehi’s prison story as a parallel for dispersing darkness through repentance and faith in Christ (21:13).
  • "That kind of faith becomes that expectation. Those clouds can disperse a little bit, hopefully on some days." – John (22:11)
• A mother’s grief and the unique parallel to Christ’s sacrifice (22:34).

The Ark/Temple as Family-Centered Covenants (22:58–26:13)

• Pres. Oaks and Pres. Nelson on Temples:
  • Family-centered language, the call to shut out the world and reconnect through meaningful rituals and togetherness (24:00).
    • "Remember, what your children really want for dinner is you." – quoting Pres. Oaks (24:53)
  • More temples than ever before signifies God’s intent to save the human family (26:13).
    • "We're dotting the world with these temples so that all the human family can be saved." – Hank (25:18)

Ongoing Creation and Recreation: Baptismal Symbolism (26:13–29:53)

• The repeated creation stories in scripture and temple ordinances show God’s ongoing creative role in our lives (26:53–27:57).
  • "The creation wasn't something that was done and finished and completed. The creation is an ongoing. I am still being created in his image every single day." – Mike (27:23)
• Application to listeners who may not attend the temple: Invite to “try”, come into the ark/temple for safety (27:57).
• The flood as both destruction and baptism, echoing personal and global “recreation” (29:31–29:53).

Christ as the Temple and the Only Means of Salvation (29:53–34:22)

• "In and through" Christ: Language in Mosiah and Alma; entering the Ark/temple is a pattern for coming “in and through” Christ (29:53–33:33).
  • "Only in and through the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent." – Mike (Mosiah 3:17, 31:33)
  • The temple must enter and change us:
    • "You go through the temple, but the temple needs to go through you." – Mike (34:22)
• Temple transformation: entering with “sword” (defensiveness), exiting with “plow” (peaceful service) (34:22).

Pitch, Light, and the Brothers of Jared (35:59–39:30)

• Ark windows/‘Tsohar’: Possible reference to shining stones (as in Ether/brother of Jared) or brilliance (“noon”), showing God as source of light in darkness (35:59–39:30).
  • "There really is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's the Lord Jesus Christ himself." – Elder Holland, recalled by Mike (39:30)

Endurance and Recreation after Chaos (41:08–49:00)

• Emergence from the Ark as Deliverance: Noah’s exit is a return to creation/baptismal newness; enduring darkness yields a new, better faith/trust (41:08–43:19).
• Token of the covenant/rainbow: God’s reiteration of the same covenant from Enoch through Noah, as evidence of His faithfulness, encouraging patience and endurance in prayers (43:19–49:00).
  • "Sometimes we get a little bit impatient...But I think, hold on, there's something in the process he wants to see that we're going to still trust him even when it looks bleak." – Hank (43:59)

Tower of Babel: Counterfeit Temple (49:38–54:01)

• Babel as humanity's attempt to find heaven on their own terms, using “slime” rather than divinely-instructed pitch—contrast "God's way" vs. "man's way" (50:27–52:32).
• Babel means “God’s gate”, but is a counterfeit. The tower is a symbol of self-sufficiency vs. humble, covenantal approach (53:04).

Faith, Trust, and the Personal Covenant Path (54:01–59:34)

• Advice for those in faith crisis: Faith = trust, built up over time through experience and exposure to "clouds of witnesses" (scriptures, family, prophets, personal trial).
  • "Faith is a confidence and assurance that God's going to do what he says...As I study the scriptures, I see the evidence and then I practice. I still struggle. And as I'm practicing trying, there's some assurance that comes, that brings peace..." – Hank (54:24)
• If struggling with the Church, at least "hold on" to Jesus Christ as a starting point.

The Sensory Gospel and Sacred Experiences (59:34–62:41)

• God teaches through all senses; intentional temple and Sabbath worship can deepen our awareness of Christ's grace and presence (59:34–62:41).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Sanctuary and Sacredness
  • "If you wouldn't show it in the temple, would you show it at home?" – Mike (02:18)
• Temple as Ark
  • "The ark is a perfect archetype here of the temple. Bring your family in." – Mike (07:45)
  • "Come with your wife, come with your son's wives, come with your family. Be alive in the temple." – John (08:23)
• On Grief and the Temple
  • "I go to the temple and I’m passing through that veil...I’m confident and assured that someday I’ll get that opportunity where I’ll pass through the veil and see him standing there, and we’re going to embrace and it’s going to be beautiful and fun. That idea gets me through those dark days because it still crashes down in waves." – Mike (17:18)
• Christ is the Only Means
  • "There's only one that allows you to feel hope and feel joy even in the midst of that grief and sorrow that you're experiencing... It's only in and through Jesus Christ. There's no other name under heaven where salvation can come." – Hank (40:01)
• On Temple Attendance for All
  • "Please try this. Please come into this ark. Come into the temple. Do everything you can to get there." – Mike (27:57)
• The Temple Needs to Go Through You
  • "You go through the temple, but the temple needs to go through you. Right? Needs to be part of the way you think and the way you are." – Mike (34:22)
• Babel as Counterfeit Temple
  • "I love this idea of Babel as kind of a counterfeit temple...Here comes the counterfeit temple." – John (53:04)
• Consolation to Faith Crisis
  • "If my faith is such that I'm struggling with the church, well then maybe I can just hold on to Jesus Christ for right now and I hold on to him. Then I can start learning and understanding a little bit more..." – Hank (54:24)

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Timestamps for Significant Segments

• 00:07 – Elder Stone’s Manhattan Temple analogy; protecting your home.
• 04:13 – Noah’s Ark as a temple symbol; measurements, levels, entering in.
• 07:45 – The Ark as archetype for temple/family covenants.
• 10:31 – Entering the Ark/temple as actionable protection; persevering through modern chaos.
• 12:59 – Waters/chaos as symbols for grief and hardship.
• 17:18 – Mike’s personal testimony of loss, healing through temple worship.
• 19:32 – Expectation of reunion with loved ones, not just hope.
• 21:13 – Nephi & Lehi in prison; dispelling darkness with faith in Christ.
• 29:31 – The flood is a baptismal, “re-creation” moment; parallels to personal renewal.
• 33:27 – The “in and through” Christ theme.
• 34:22 – Transformation needed from temple worship.
• 39:30 – Light in the Ark and in the temple represents Jesus Christ.
• 43:19 – The rainbow as covenant token and faith’s evidence.
• 49:38 – The Tower of Babel as a counterfeit temple.
• 54:01 – Counsel for those experiencing faith crisis.
• 59:34 – God uses all senses for spiritual teaching; intentional worship matters.

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Conclusion

The episode weaves the ancient narrative of Noah’s Ark into a vibrant tapestry of symbols for the temple, family, community, faith, and endurance. The hosts and guest openly share laughter, insights, vulnerability, and spiritual encouragement. Listeners are left with the charge to “get into the Ark”—to claim the covenants and ordinances that connect us to Christ, protect us from the world's chaos, and bring us power and peace even amid grief.

Final quote:
"Whatever questions or problems you have, the answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ...Turn to him. Follow him." – Hank & Mike (64:43–64:48)

Transcript

[John]

Welcome Back to part two with brother Michael Cottle, Genesis 6:11 and Moses 8.

[Mike]

This talk is 20 years old. Now, elder David Stone spoke about the Manhattan Temple. It's only three paragraphs. Let me read this for you. He says, my involvement with the building of the Manhattan Temple gave me the opportunity to be in the temple quite often prior to the dedication. It was wonderful to sit in the Celestial room and be there in perfect silence without a single sound to be hear heard coming from the busy New York streets outside. And if you've ever been to New York City, it's anything but quiet. How was it possible that the temple could be so reverently silent when the hustle and bustle of the metropolis was just a few yards away? The answer was in the construction of the temple. The temple was built within the walls of an existing building and the inner walls of the temple were connected to the outer walls and at only a very few junction points. That is how Zion, the temple, limited the effects of Babylon or the world outside. There may be a lesson here for us. We can create the real Zion among us by limiting the extent to which Babylon will influence our lives. Isn't that what both of you been saying is pitched within pitch without I'm protecting my family and myself from allowing things into my life and home. Yet how often on my phone, on my TV, do I just allow Babylon? Anna and I serve it tea and crumpets.

[Hank]

Yeah, Offered chair. Let it sit down.

[Mike]

Right, yeah, we call it entertainment.

[John]

I was thinking of a mic drop type moment in the Bible dictionary where it speaks of the home and it says only the temple can compare in sacredness to the home. If you've ever thought of how unsettling it would be to show a sitcom in the chapel. But it's not a big deal in your home. I mean, you think of things you would never want to see in the chapel. Well, what if it's really true? The home compares with the temple in sacredness. That's like a. Whoa.

[Mike]

If you wouldn't show it in the temple, would you show it at home? Oh, John, you're killing me. I might as well hide under my desk.

[John]

That's a tough one. I read the dictionary, thought I. Okay, I'm not up to that standard right now, but it sure, sure made me think. Yikes. Oh, man.

[Mike]

Oh, why don't I go crawl under a rock right now?

[John]

I mean, I watch basketball games at home. That's all right, isn't it?

[Hank]

Please tell me it's all right. Guys, pack your bags.

[Mike]

We're going on a guilt trip.

[John]

Guilt trip.

[Hank]

Well, this idea gets even more exciting if you look back now in verse 15. This story is really not about Noah and Abode. It's about God and how he connects with his people. Now, let me give you a little background. Again, I'm very new to this idea. I am not an expert, but there's a notion in the world called an axis mundi or a mundi, the connection point between heaven and Earth. And it can come in the form of trees, it can come in the form of mountains, caves, buildings, temples. In almost every culture, it's really an interesting thing. Almost every culture and every people, every land has a story of where there's something divine connecting with earth. In this story is how they come together and how they're even rescued or saved. Here I think you're seeing a little bit of this high point. An ark here is going to be lifted up. Water is a symbol for chaos. This ark is to be lifted up above the chaos, and it's a place to connect. We can look at that as a symbol for temple. So look in verse 15, John, why don't you pick it up in Genesis 6:15. Read that. But look and see what are the similarities here. You see with temple.

[John]

And this is the fashion which thou shalt make of it. The length of the ark shall be 300 cubits, the breadth of it 50 cubits, and the height of it 30 cubits.

[Hank]

I'm not really worried about size. You can pull up all kinds of images on the Internet and see how it compares to the size of a blue whale and all those kind of things. But generally speaking, what is the shape of this object, this ARC? If it's 100, 300 cubits long, however, you know, 17 inch, 17 and a half inches of cubit. But that's going to be pretty long compared to the width, only 50, kind of long and narrow. And then you've got the height is, you know, you got some height there. So just kind of a big rectangle, in other words.

[Mike]

That's what I was going to say.

[Hank]

This is the fashion of it. The Lord's giving him some specific instructions on how to make this. When I read that, my mind goes to the instructions God has given Moses in creating the tabernacle. He gives some specific instructions. It's kind of a rectangle. The general shape is pretty much the same as that tabernacle. Joseph Smith is given the fashion of the Kirtland temple. He sees it in that. It's the preliminary to the star wars hologram. He has that vision come over him almost in these seas. And the church ought to get some money for all of that holographic stuff because Joseph got it first. It's the fashion of the temple. The Lord is giving him instructions on this temple. Verse 16. A window shalt thou make in the ark, and in cubit thou shalt finish it above and the door and the ark thou shalt set in the side thereof, with the lower, the second and third stories shalt thou make it. You used to climb levels in the temple. So I think there's again this connection with temple that we ought to think about is some imagery here, symbol for it. And if nothing else, just be thinking of celestial, terrestrial and telestial. You've got different levels. But if we run with this as a temple in verse 17, behold I, even I do bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh. Wherein is the breath of life from under the heaven, and everything that is in the earth shall die. You got the flood of the water coming, two words towards the end of that verse. That's pretty inclusive. Everything that is in the earth is going to die. If you're not in the ark, then there's not a lot of hope for you. There's something about this covenant. Now we're going to see that phrase in is going to be an important word. Verse 18. But with thee will I establish my covenant, and thou shalt come into the ark, thou and thy sons and thy wife and thy sons, wives with thee and. And verse 19. And every living thing, all flesh, two of every sort, thou shalt bring into the ark to keep them alive. I think alive spiritually. If we want to be spared the chaos, destruction of this world, this storm that's raging, we've got to go in into this ark or this covenant. The temple covenants again. It's not the checklist of just going. It's not a matter of just going to the temple, but it's doing with our heart going into this ark as a symbol.

[Mike]

John, by the way, you know how many times on this show I have read something and then someone shows me, like, Mike, I will never see the ark the same, ever. Mike. It's like hidden in plain sight. The ark is a perfect archetype here of the temple. Bring your family in.

[Hank]

You've got to have your family. Yeah. You got to save your family. You want them saved, you got to get them in. Everything that's in is gonna be saved.

[Mike]

It's even the same shape.

[John]

Yeah.

[Mike]

John, tell me that you haven't seen that. Tell me I'm not the only one.

[John]

I have never seen that before. I absolutely love it. Come with your wife, come with your son's wives, come with your family, Be alive in the temple.

[Mike]

Establish my covenant.

[Hank]

That'd be a great meme. You should make that and put that out and put that as a meme there. I love it.

[John]

Hank, we have a guest coming in a few weeks, Dave Hadlock. And he showed me once that the word profane, like profanity, the etymology, it comes from profanis. Look it up on your phone, everybody. It will say that means outside the temple.

[Mike]

Really profane space. Yeah, I've heard that.

[Hank]

I love that connection.

[John]

Yeah, that's the world out there that's going to die. Come in this temple, make up, bring your family and be alive.

[Hank]

Good you think of that profane space. I love that word. That's really interesting. You just jogging my mind here. But Israel, the culture was that everything at the center was the most sacred. And the further you go out, it becomes more and less and less sacred or more profane. And Leviticus is filled with. There's this sacred space that God's trying to create. And the closer we get to that center is where he is. So there. The holy of holies in the tabernacle was that sacred spot where God would come and dwell and sit on the mercy seat and meet with the high priest. That was the most sacred in our temples today. That would be the celestial room in our own homes. It's interesting. Someone comes to my home, I don't just invite them into the most sacred places of our home. We keep them in the family room and in the kitchen. Maybe if they're. They will let them see a little bit of our kitchen. But they have to be really intimate to be able to go into the more sacred places. I've got to know them really well. And I think our Father in heaven's the same. He wants people that know him in order to come into his sacred place. I love that. Thanks, John, for highlighting that.

[Mike]

Both of you have blown my mind here.

[Hank]

It gets me excited, but I don't think of these things. Other people teach me. Verse 20 Again that phrase, every sort shall come unto thee. If we're going to come unto Christ, come unto him. We've got to come into this space that's protected, that's got the seal on it, the pitch within and without. That's going to protect us. So again, you're just seeing that language all over it. And then verse 22, all that God commanded Noah to do, he was doing all of it. He's trying to do everything God is asking him. Jump over to chapter seven. Scroll down to verse seven again. We're just going to hit this quickly. Noah went in and his sons went in into the ark or into the temple. Verse 9, they went in. In verse 12 you got the 40 days and 40 nights. I think of other times where there's 40. The Savior was out fasting for 40 days. I don't know what 40 means other than it's a symbol of cleansing, sanctification, consecration perhaps. I think there's something happening there with that 40 days. But then in verse 13, the very last three lines, they're into the ark. Verse 15, they went in. Verse 16, they went in and at the very end they shut him in. I just see this over and over. This idea of people going into something that is such an important part of the protection and the strength that we need to make it through the chaos. We've got to go in verse 17, the flood was on the earth, and upon the earth the waters increased and bare up the ark and it was lifted up above the earth. So you got that image, this connection that God is lifting them up above the world. I love again, the symbol temples. That is the mountain of the Lord is lifted up above the world and that's the ark here in Garden of Eden. It was the garden it was above and the rivers flowed down from that garden that was the connecting point. For Noah, it's the ark and for us it's the temples. Hank, you want to read verse 18?

[Mike]

And the waters prevailed and were increased greatly upon the earth. And the ark went upon the face of the waters.

[Hank]

People that are struggling where it says the waters are prevailing and greatly increased. Whether it's from sin or just the heartache that comes in life, people are going to be bombarded. They feel like these worldly influences or destructive powers or addictions and sorrows and pains that are prevailing in their life. And you've highlighted a little bit, Hank, for me, almost six years ago, my own son passed away in a terrible car accident. He was with his girlfriend, who we love, and his mission companion and roommate were with him. Talk about having some prevailing chaos in a life. And it's hard and it feels like the waves of the world are just coming down. I remember when we first heard it, we just wept. It's hard, it's painful, and there's others that have probably gone through even harder circumstances. But for us, in our own situation. It's painful. You feel that heaviness. We just had 1st of January. My sister had a daughter that passed away. It just rips your heart out. There's things in life are hard and difficult. Even though you're in the ark. Doesn't save you from some of the hardship. You're going to have the waves beating upon you. The protection that comes is coming from Jesus Christ. There's no other way to escape it. It's prevailing upon many, and I know many of your listeners are probably experiencing pain and sorrow and heartache. Where the waters are prevailing. There's an interest verse in section 38 of the Doctrine and Covenants, verse 11. The language is very similar. Section 38, 11. For all flesh is corrupted before me and the powers of darkness prevail upon the earth among the children of men in the presence of all the hosts of heaven. Instead of water prevailing, it's the darkness that's prevailing and resting upon people and weighing them down. Some because of their own mistakes, that it's causing them to feel the pain and the sorrow and the suffering of unrepentant sin. Others, it may be abuse, it may be sorrow of losing a child or a loved one. It may be marriage that's not working out or no marriage at all. And the sorrow and pain that come. I have a lot of young single adults that are in sorrow and painting because that darkness that comes because it just doesn't feel like they can progress further. They're struggling and my heart goes out to them. I feel for them. I've not ever been a real compassionate person, but I'm learning now to be more compassionate and how to show compassion. But there it is. It's there. It's working on people and it's there. It's prevailing upon them. So you feel it? I think people feel it. And our day probably as much as ever. Some people compare our day with Noah's day. And I think there's a lot of similarities. I don't know which one's worse. I think it certainly is the darkness that's prevailing on the earth now. And it's rampant out there.

[Mike]

Oh, Mike. I had Jacob and his wonderful girlfriend in my class.

[Hank]

You're a big part of their relationship.

[Mike]

I told Jacob, you need to ask her out. And he said, do you think I said, oh, you. You do? When I heard what happened, like all of everyone who loves you and your family, we were in shock. Now what you're showing here is the temple. The temple is where. What'd you say? Would you call it this connection with heaven? John, I've said this before. I. I'm not personally not someone who goes to the cemetery. For me personally, if I want to connect, I go to the ark, I go to the temple.

[Hank]

We had a neat experience. It was right during COVID so it was a miserable time for everybody. We had some friends that allowed us, got us in touch with the temple, president provo, and they were doing cleaning and other work on the temple. It wasn't open, but he allowed us to come in, my wife and I, and we were able to go in and just sit in the celestial room and just be there. It was a wonderful help in our healing. To me, one of the things that really has helped me get through is I go to the temple and I'm passing through that veil. The thought I'm coming through, and I'm so excited because I'm expecting to see Jake or Brielle or Tanner in that celestial room, and it hasn't happened yet, but I'm looking for it. Every single time I go through, there's an excitement. Let's hurry up. I want to get through this veil because I want to see, and I'm confident and assured that someday I'll get that opportunity where I'll pass through the veil and see him standing there, and we're going to embrace and it's going to be beautiful and fun. That idea gets me through those dark days because it still crashes down in waves. I'm learning that you can live with grief and joy all in the same time. It doesn't ever really go away. It's always there. But the hope and the assurance, that's the faith. The assurance is that someday we're going to see him. We're going to be there, and that ark, that temple, is going to preserve us and protect us because of Jesus Christ.

[John]

Some people look at religion as a crutch for weak people. I like to think of Paul. No, it's a sword, and you have to lean on it sometimes. Look at what you've been through and look at the joy that you've shared with us. Because you know something? You have a full expectation of one day coming through that veil and seeing your boy. And that's what makes me think that's not weakness. That is power. The gospel is power to get through these floods when the waters feel like they're prevailing.

[Mike]

I like what you said there, John. It's not a hope, even though hope is strong, it's an expectation. It's in the plan. Oh, man. I'm sorry I don't get this way often.

[Hank]

Well, I've had many emotional nights and still do and still will. There's pain. Verse 19. You see, the whole heavens were covered. That's what it feels like. It just feels like everything's covered. It's black. Some people want to just sleep because they're just so discouraged. Some people can't sleep because they're so discouraged. Grief is a very unique, personal thing. It's not something you can really share with anybody. They don't know what it's like until you experience it. And I think it's for everybody, whatever form it comes in. It's hard, it's black, it's dark. And you feel covered, you feel swallowed. Joseph Smith describes, you know, that he felt like he was going to be swallowed up, consumed, when he had that visit of the adversary. And that's how it feels like. It's almost to abandon yourself to utter ruin and total despair. The only hope is to cry out. Sometimes the word prayer becomes overused. We just don't think about praying words like you cry out, you plead with God, with every fiber, every ounce of strength you have. God save me, I need you. And that's what gets you through because there's just nothing else. I don't know how people do it without that assurance. I really don't. It would completely swallow somebody up.

[John]

Nephi and Lehi, sons of Helaman, are in prison. Just this. You reminded me of this. The people, the others in the prison. What shall we do? Listen to this question. What shall we do that this cloud of darkness may be removed from overshadowing us? Amminadab said unto them, this is someone who was a member of the church but had dissented. He knew what to do. I hope that gives a lot of people a lot of hope who have loved ones that maybe are somewhere else right now. But Minidab said, you must repent and cry unto the voice even until you shall have faith in Christ, which was taught unto you by Alma and Amulek and Zee Ezra. When he shall do this, this cloud of darkness shall be removed from overshadowing you. Repentance and faith in Christ. Have we heard that before? That kind of faith becomes that expectation. Those clouds can disperse a little bit, hopefully on some days. I mean, I have no idea what you and your family have experienced. The answer seems to be the same.

[Mike]

Mike, I just need to say out loud that as we're talking about this, Jennifer is in our hearts. To your sweet wife.

[Hank]

There's something About a mother's love for a child. Nothing can really compare. The only thing is the Savior. That's why the Savior connects with mothers so much is that they know a little bit. They've given of their blood for their child and the Savior has done the same. That would be the only connection. That's a grief only mothers that know.

[Mike]

Yeah. Mike, I did not know that you were going to turn Noah's ark, a story I've loved into a celestial story of get to the temple. Get to the temple. I want to combine two of the lessons you've given us so far. Let me go back to President Oaks from October of 2025. He talks about the family proclamation. He says the Church of Jesus Christ is sometimes known as a family centered church. It is our relationship to God and the purpose of our mortal life. Are explained in terms of the. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the plan of our heavenly Father for the benefit of his spirit children. We can truly say that the gospel plan was first taught to us in the council of an eternal family. It is implemented through mortal families and its intended destiny is to exalt the children of God in eternal families. He goes on a little bit further. He talks about the duty of parents to do meaningful things together. He talks about recreation. John loves that. And it says families should remember ancestors which will lead to the temple. Some may say we have no time for that. To find time to do what is truly worthwhile. Many parents will find they can turn their family on if they will all turn their technology into off parents. Remember, what your children really want for dinner is you. He finishes, I testify of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the only begotten son of God, our eternal Father. He invites us to follow the covenant path that leads to a heavenly family reunion. The kind you were talking about, Mike. The sealing power of the priesthood. Directed by the keys restored in the Kirtland Temple. The bring families together for eternity. They are currently being exercised in a growing number of temples of the Lord throughout the world. This is real. Let us be part of it. Mike. I will never see Noah's Ark the same ever again. It's a temple lesson.

[Hank]

Yeah. Temple.

[John]

It's a big vessel.

[Hank]

Yeah. That's why we started with that idea. The vessel. He is saving us with these opportunities. And more than ever in the history of the world, we're dotting the world with these temples so that all the human family can be saved. What a beautiful time to live now when temples just. It's just skyrocketed in the last 10, 15, 20 years. Really. President Hinckley had a great start, but boy, with President Nelson, I think he's just going to continue with President Oaks. It's just trying to save the human family with these temples. President Nelson did say this in 2020 of April of the talk. Go forward with faith, he says, because Jesus Christ is at the center of everything we do in the temple. As you think more about the temple, you will be thinking more about him. I love this idea. Temple. It really is Jesus Christ.

[John]

I wrote temple next to verse 16 of Genesis 6. And ever since you've been going, I'm seeing how he's talking about the animals two by two. We talk about the creation story in the temple. We go through it. Hank, you talked about recreation. Well, this is a recreation. We talked about that four or five years ago. Whenever it was that. This story is like a beginning again. It's like the earth is being baptized almost. And it's this recreation story again with all the animals and the water of chaos in creation is here again. This is a good day.

[Hank]

I love that insight. That's great. I often think about why do we hear the creation story so many times? We have it in Genesis, we have it in Moses, we have it in Abraham, we have it scattered all throughout the Book of Mormon. And talking about the creation story. And then we get to the temple, every time we do an endowment, we're getting that creation story over and over. Something about that God is trying to teach us about this creation. And I have to think that the creation wasn't something that was done and finished and completed. The creation is an ongoing. I am still being created in his image every single day. The more I can turn to him, the more my creation is fulfilling. I'm fulfilling the measure of my creation. But it's a continual story. A new beginning, a new creation. Every day. As I repent renewing those covenants and especially as I get to the temple, there's a new creation for me that I can become better every time. I love that.

[Mike]

Mike, we have listeners who maybe aren't those who can or do attend the temple. There's something in my heart today that almost wants to reach out through your phone, however you're listening, and say, please try this. Please come into this ark. Come into the temple. Do everything you can to get there. I know when I'm feeling the Holy Ghost, because almost all of my body wants to get up right now and drive to the temple and take my family in there and be in there in that safety from these Terrible waters and storms that are prevailing on the earth. They really are.

[Hank]

If we go back into Genesis 7, the phrases are just highlighting this chaos. In verse 20, the waters are prevailing and the mountains are covered. So again, you're seeing that covered idea. Verse 21, all flesh died that moved upon the earth, foul every creeping thing. Verse 23, Every living substance was destroyed upon the ground. And then in the very end of verse 23, and Noah only remained alive and they that were with him in the ark. Again, that message that this is our safety. God is trying to help us understand the only safety we have is really in the covenants and ordinances that we find in the temple as they are connecting us with Jesus Christ. That's the only way.

[Mike]

And to save us, I think there's a return to Eden here. We're going to wipe out everything we did. Now the waters are going to separate again like they once did. We're going to separate the water in the land and we're going to put life back on the earth, a new life, like a baptism, like you said, John.

[Hank]

It is. It was the baptism. The fire's coming later, but that's that recreation. I love the connection. Now for just some fun, just because I think this is exciting. Go with me over in the book of Mosiah. Mosiah 3, just some words here that really start to jump out at me. So Mosiah 3:5, pay attention to how the author here, that King Benjamin, is speaking about Jesus Christ, how they describe him here. For behold, the time cometh and is not far distant when with power the Lord omnipotent, who reigneth, who was and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst the men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick and raising the dead, causing the lame to walk and the blind to receive their sight, the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases. But if you notice how they describe him, he called him a tabernacle of clay. It may not literally have anything to do with it, but to me, he's trying to get us to think of tabernacles or temples. He calls them this tabernacle of clay, that Jesus Christ is that tabernacle of clay. He is the tabernacle. It's not just an edifice over there. He is in Hebrews, Paul teaches that the Savior is the veil. You can get that. But now I want you to see that he is the entire temple. Really it adds even more color to it. Jump down to verse 17. And there's two words here I want you to see. Moreover, I say unto you that there shall be no other name given, nor any other way, nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men only in and through the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent. The Lord is trying to teach us something here that I think connects back to the Genesis. As you saw how many times he went in. He went in, into. In the temple. We've got to go in and through. And that's not just in that chapter alone. You've got that same wording in Mosiah 16, 13. And now ought ye not to tremble and repent of your sins. And remember that only in and through Christ ye can be saved. Again, that language in and through Alma 38, 9. This is Alma teaching his son, Shiblon. Now, my son, I've told you this, that ye may learn wisdom, that ye may learn of me that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only in and through Christ. Behold, he is the life and the light of the world. That is the story of temples. That's the story of Noah. That's only in and through Noah. You got to come in and stay in and be covered completely with that pitch if you want to be saved. And it's the same message in the Book of Mormon. It's only in and through temples is just Jesus Christ. He is the temple. He is the saving portion.

[John]

Christ is the veil. We go in and through. I love it.

[Hank]

Yeah, in and through. There's just no other way. The plea is for all of us to come in. You know, Noah's out preaching for 120 years, telling them to come in. They refused. They wouldn't hearken. They wouldn't listen. But that's the same message of prophets today. Come in, go to the temple. You just read the statement from President Oaks. President Nelson had the same. The prophets have come to the temple, but it's not about going and just sitting through. Sitting there dressed in clothing that sometimes may be a little bit odd. That's not the point. It's with our hearts. We got to connect to the Savior in the process. It's that process of connecting with him, seeing him in the temple, learning about him in the temple.

[Mike]

You go through the temple, but the temple needs to go through you. Right? Yeah. Needs to be part of the way you think and the way you are. Isaiah said, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord. We'll learn of his ways. What does he say? I will beat our swords into plows. That's a change. If you're going to change a sword into a plow, that tells me the temple's going to change me. I might go in ready to fight and be aggressive like a sword, and I'm going to come out ready to feed. I need to be changed by the temple.

[Hank]

Changed by the temple. John the Baptist uses the phrase, repent. Repent ye. Make his path straight. Prepare ye the way of the Lord. Make his path straight. That pathway straight is. We've got to remove all the obstacles that are keeping us from coming to Christ, whatever that might be. We've got to remove those obstacles to make that path a straight and narrow path, which really is the pathway of covenants, the pathway through the temple. That's that Old Testament tabernacle. It was a straight path from the door, the gateway, all the way into that center place. It was a straight and narrow path. There's just no other way. This is the way back to our Father in heaven. That is the plan that he has for us.

[Mike]

Man. Wow. I'm blown away here.

[John]

This is great.

[Hank]

Mike.

[Mike]

This has been absolutely fantastic. What do you want to do next?

[Hank]

The story's not ending. We're going to continue. But I want to go back to Genesis because there's just a little word and a verse that we didn't touch that I think is really fun to see. Go back to Genesis 6 and look at verse 16. And I think a lot of you have already seen this footnote. But I Love the footnote. 16A is Hebrew for Tsohar. I don't know how you pronounce it, but some rabbis believed that it was a precious stone that shone in the ark. I love that little thought, that idea. And certainly we ought to be thinking of the brother of Jared. And when brother of Jared's pleading, praying with God, what are we going to do to get air? How are we going to guide the ship? And how are we going to get light? And he tells him two of the answers. Cut a hole in the top and the bottom, and you'll get the air. And then I'm going to guide you and direct you. I'll be your steering. But the light, you got to figure that out on your own. And I just think there's a beautiful principle. Perhaps brother Jared just needed to go back and read the Old Testament a little bit and see that account from Noah and pick up that there's something about God touching the stones. So I love that Connection. But there may be another one as well. That word is translated 24 different times in the Bible, and it often will be translated as noontime or noontide. Midday, noon, day, light of the sun, are some of the other descriptions of that phrase. And so I don't know if there's another way to look at that, but I think when I think of those kinds of definitions, I think Joseph Smith describing that brightness of the sun, brighter than the noonday sun, I think is a beautiful connection. First, Nephi 1, 9. Lehi has a vision, and it came to pass that in verse nine, he saw one descending out of the midst of heaven, and he beheld that his luster was above that of the sun at noonday. And then there's another verse, Isaiah 4, 4, 6. I'm just going to read them. And when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, I think when you think of wash here, the world is being washed from the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof. By the Spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning, the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and upon her assemblies a cloud and a smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night. For upon all the glory shall be a defense. And there shall be a tabernacle for the shadow in the daytime, from the heat, and for a place of refuge and for a covert from the storm and from rain. That's the temple to me. These windows, this ark, this temple is that refuge, the COVID from the storm, highlighting that message that what we've already been talking about. If we want protection and safety, a refuge, we've got to get to those temples. We've got to get to that ark, that vessel of salvation, as a way to save us. I love that insight from those verses.

[Mike]

I remember Elder Holland saying there really is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's the Lord Jesus Christ himself. I can see that here in the temple. This light in the temple.

[Hank]

Yeah. He is the answer for all of it.

[Mike]

If someone can heal something as devastating as what you and Jennifer have been through, there's only one being who can heal that, who can actually heal that wound and sanctify it, consecrate it.

[Hank]

People are so good and we were so supported, family and friends that were so wonderful to us, and they did everything they could and they were amazing, and yet there really isn't anything that can bring that solace. There's nothing that brings the peace. I know the doctrines, I know the principles. But that still doesn't take the pain away. That doesn't take the heartache and the sorrow. There's only one that allows you to feel hope and feel joy even in the midst of that grief and sorrow that you're experiencing. And so for your listeners, whatever the trouble, the trial, the trauma that they're experiencing, life there really is only one. It's only in and through Jesus Christ. There's no other name under heaven where salvation can come. That hope and safety only in and through Christ.

[Mike]

Man, I didn't expect to be on an emotional rollercoaster here. Mike, what do we do next? Are we going to move into chapter eight?

[Hank]

In chapter eight, unless there's something that you want to really talk about, it's the deliverance side of it, it's coming out the home. And, you know, maybe just a quick little thought as people, you know, in verse one, the waters were assuaged. And I don't know if that's how you say it, but it means subsided. So the flood is ending. And we've talked about the new creation. Jared Halverson talks about the creation fall and atonement as a pattern for things. Bruce Hafen talks about having a simple faith and going through complexity. Then you go back into the simpleness, but now it's more informed. And all of those, I love them all as depictions of how we get through. And I think you're seeing that in chapter eight, you go through that chaos of life. You have some trauma, you have some heartache.

[John]

You have.

[Hank]

You learn something that maybe that unsettles you and you're having to wrestle. But if you stick in, stay in that covenant, stay in the ark. There's something beautiful that comes out after. And Noah comes out after, the floods recede and there's some peace that comes. But now it's more informed. He's had some experience. He can trust even more in God's divine help. And he will save you. He will get you through. That's part of that message of chapter eight that comes. Is there anything else that you like in verse 8?

[Mike]

In this chapter, you see the creation narrative repeated. I think we learned that four years ago, John. God's breath on the earth, then the land, then humans, animals, multiply, replenish the earth. And Noah is here building an altar and sacrificing the repetition of the creation story.

[John]

And in chapter nine, the exact same words, be fruitful, multiply. In verse seven, it's start over in verse one and verse seven, be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.

[Hank]

So recreation, yeah, that born again, being new again. And we can do that every day. That recreation's part of that covenant. Establishing that covenant again. In chapter nine, verse 12, you see this connection? God said this is the token of the covenant again. Token being an outward manifestation or a sign that he's really done something. He's really made a promise with us, that covenant. And so that token and every living creature that is with you for perpetual generations, I do set my bow in the cloud. That's the sign, this rainbow. But this rainbow isn't one that just started with Noah. The covenant's coming back to Enoch. And so we need to think about Enoch in this story. This is a renewal of the covenant with Enoch. The end result is that we're going to be able to connect back with God again. That's the whole plan, is that we come down to this earth, we go through the chaos, and if we are covered with Christ, then we're going to have that beautiful end scene where we're able to come back into his presence, be saved and rescued, delivered from that monster of the sea, the world, the monster of sin and death, and be saved and rescued. That token, that rainbow, is that sign that it's going to work. We can trust him. There's evidence. Faith is evidence, assurance, and then action. Every time you receive a little evidence that increases your assurance, then you can take more action. We can trust. And so you've got. This account of Noah is a beautiful piece of evidence for us. I think it's Paul that describes it as a cloud of witnesses. He's one of these witnesses for us. They give us the evidence that we can trust. We can trust him, that he's going to pull through. Even though the world you're in might be looking like it's just totally bleak that all you're seeing is the darkness. Still it's prevailing. But if you'll hold on. I think of Sarah and Abraham. Sarah was pleading, crying for 60 years that she could be delivered from her torment of not having a child, not being a mother. This is that prayer she's offering every day. You know, I can imagine her saying something like, father in heaven, you know, you've promised me to be a covenant wife here, but please bless me with a child. And it didn't happen. It didn't happen. Didn't happen. There's something beautiful in just staying in. Jesus Christ is the perfect example of that. In the Garden of Gethsemane, he's pleading with God Three different times. God, take away. Remove this cup, if thou be willing. Remove the cup three times. This is the perfect son. Three times. He doesn't get a response yet. He says, okay, I'll finish, I'll complete. Sometimes we get a little bit impatient. I'm suffering. I haven't got the job I want or I haven't got the relationship, please. And, man, it hasn't happened yet. And it's been a year maybe or six months, and it still hasn't happened. But I think, hold on, there's something in the process he wants to see that we're going to still trust him even when it looks bleak. I think C.S. lewis, he wrote screwtape letters in that story. It's counterintuitive a little bit, but it's a devil training an apprentice devil how to tempt and torment and get the human. He says to the apprentice devil, he says, our cause is never more in jeopardy, meaning that Satan's cause is never more in jeopardy than when a human looking around on a universe and sees no evidence of God and still obeys. That's that darkness, the prevailing darkness in the world, that if we can just hold on when we're in that darkness. John, you pointed out in Helaman 5 and the prison scene with Nephi and Lehi, and they're swallowed up in darkness. Well, they're in the light, but all the others are swallowed in darkness. The only respite was they could call out on the name of Jesus, plead to him, and that's the only safety that they're going to have in those heartaches in the moment. My prayers the last five years, often it's been an amazing thing where I'm feeling pretty dark and heavy at nighttime. And I just pray, father in heaven, help me and struggle, strengthen me. And it's a pleading. It's not push the tape recorder type of prayer. Please bless me that I can be there tomorrow, that I can be healthy and strong. Bless the food, the nourish, strength, my body, and all those types of prayers that we just. The words just roll off our tongue because we've said them so much. But really pleading with God, God save me. There's nothing else that can help me right now. I need the saving power of Jesus Christ. And then the next morning I can wake up and my struggle's there, but I can get up and I can put on a smiling face and go through my day. I still feel the pain, but I can get through. And there's also some joy and some peace that's been an experience almost daily for me. And I am so grateful for a God that helps me in the time of need. And it's just the only thing I can do is pray. There's just nothing else. Just pray.

[Mike]

Mike. Thank you for this, John. A couple weeks ago, we were talking about how Abraham in Abraham chapter one says, I was seeking the blessings of the fathers. He must have had this account. Here's God speaking to Noah saying, I will establish my covenant with you like I did with your father, Enoch. This has been going on a while, and somehow Abraham knows about it.

[John]

God seems to work by covenants. And when Abraham's thinking of the fathers, who's he talking about? Well, he's talking about the people we're reading about right now and God desiring to make covenants with them as well. Good point.

[Hank]

And Noah and Abraham aren't very far off in genealogy as far as timing. I think he would have been really aware of who Noah is, Abraham. And so, yeah, that is a father that he's going to hold on to. Yeah. Now we're going to jump and see this story in chapter 11, the Counterfeit of the Ark. 1, 2, and 3. Let's pick it up there, John, you want to read those three verses for us?

[John]

And the whole earth was of one language and of one speech. And it came to pass as they journeyed from the east. They found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there. And they said one to another, go to. Let us make brick and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone and slime had they for mortar.

[Hank]

Notice the difference here between the ark and what it was covered with and what's happening here? They're building this tower. They're trying to get to heaven, but they're wanting to do it their way instead of God's covenant pathway. They're trying to do it their own way. They're using the slime to create instead of pitch, trying to create their own way. In verse four, they said, go to. Let us build us a city and a tower whose top may reach unto heaven. Let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. They don't want to succumb to God's will and plan. We're going to do it differently. We're doing our own thing. Doctrine covenants, section 1 16. They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness. So this is Joseph Smith and his preparatory. It's the prep work to the Doctrine Covenants. And so he Writes the Lord. Tell him they seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness. But every man walketh in his own way after the image of his own God, whose image is in the likeness of the world and whose substance is that of an idol which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great which shall fall. But they're walking in their own way. Instead of walking in the path of God, they're walking in their own way, trying to go around doing it different than the way God has intended it. The result is destruction. It's going to happen again. They're going to be cut off from God, cut off from his presence, and we're going to have to have new beginnings again. Pick up, John.

[Mike]

As we've covered these first, you know, lessons of the Old Testament, I can hear the Lord going, how many times do we have to do the same thing over and over? Cleanse the earth. We've got it back again. Okay, and now, Tower.

[John]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Let's do it our way. I wonder how many times I have to learn that lesson, too.

[John]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Lord's like, how many times do you have to try it your way before we figure out that's not going to work? Who is it, John, that says, let's consider your ways? That's towards the end of the Old Testament somewhere. Let's consider your ways. Your ways is like putting a bag with holes. That's what your ways seem like to me. No, let's consider my way, the one that actually works.

[John]

No, no, no. We don't want to do that. I love this idea of Babel as kind of a counterfeit temple. Let's get Nimrod. He's a really good hunter. We'll go hunt down God. Hank, I seem to remember that Babel means God's gate. It's a counterfeit, but it. It's an Akkadian word. Here we are, trying to do it our way. Right after. Never saw this until today. Right after the Ark. The real way, the temple. Here comes the counterfeit temple.

[Mike]

By the way, for those of us who know and love the Book of Mormon, this is where the Book of Ether plugs in.

[John]

Jared and his brother are down there somewhere, right? That's right.

[Mike]

Mike, before we let you go, I just want to ask you a few questions. You grew up the son of a seminary and institute teacher, right?

[Hank]

Yes.

[Mike]

Here you are a seminary and institute teacher. We have listeners who struggle with their faith, you know, for one reason or another or going through a faith crisis. Here's someone who you have a Lot of experience, yet you've seen some dark days. Can you speak to them? What would you encourage them to do?

[Hank]

Faith is an interesting word and sometimes I'm not really sure I really understand what it means. I prefer the word trust. I'm persuaded based on my experiences that I can trust God. I've explained one really heart wrenching experience that we've had in our family. It pulls me closer to him because I can trust him. I know the peace and the solace that that he can bring. Some people write off faith as naivety or something that only the gullible believe in. And yet faith is a confidence and assurance that God's going to do what he says. And as I read the scriptures, that's just strengthened. As I listen to General Conference and listen to President Oaks now, I'm just reassured. I'm surrounded by these clouds of witnesses, everyone around me, starting in my own home, you know, that's where it started. My parents were so good to help teach me. But some homes that aren't like that, you have to find it as you study the scriptures. That's the real reason we have scriptures, is that we can learn about God, learn what his character is like, not just learn a story about someone that was born 2,000 years ago. It's to learn about Jesus Christ. Every story is about him. We're learning about his character, his role, his attributes. Chad Webb the administrative seminary and institutes that has been a focus that he's encouraged us to highlight in Scriptures. Story of Noah isn't really about Noah. It's about God and how he saves his children. Nephi. It's not a story about Nephi getting brass plates. It's about how God delivers. Nephi, Joseph of Egypt. It's not about Joseph. It's about how God saves this family. As I study the scriptures, I see the evidence and then I practice. I still struggle. And as I'm practicing trying, there's some assurance that comes, that brings peace, that brings comfort, solace. And I can keep going and I can keep putting one foot in front of the other. But I hold on to the Scriptures, the words of the prophets. That helps me be anchored to God. Temples is another way. President Nelson really talked about the anchoring to the temple. Elder Bednar also talked about it being anchored to Christ to me. I have to hold on. And if my faith is such that I'm struggling with the church, well then maybe I can just hold on to Jesus Christ for right now and I hold on to him. Then I can start learning and understanding A little bit more about prophets or the church history, you know, those are matters that I can wrestle with. But I hold on to Christ as the foundation. He's first in the book of Revelation, chapter 22. It's kind of a one word prayer. In Revelation 22, verse 17. I think Mike Wilcox teaches this, but I love it. The Spirit and the bride say, come. That's my prayer almost every day is father in heaven, come, send thy son, come, come to me in my hour. Literally, I want him to come. That is my prayer. And when I go to the temple, it's come manifest thyself to me here as I'm studying my scriptures, come. As I go to bed at night, Father, come visit me. That pleading come. And then the response is maybe even more impactful in verse 20, he which testify of these things. So the writer, the Lord here he says, surely I come quickly. That's been my experience when I've pled with the Lord with all of my heart, father, where are you? Where art thou? That's Joseph Smith in the Carthage jail. He's pleading God, where art thou? Where's the pavilion that covers the hiding place? I've asked that question numerous times. I think God's okay with my asking because then he responds with, I'm here. Whether it's the comfort I get in the morning that I can get up and move forward, or it's the students and my interaction with them in my classes, the assurance I get, or with my family and the love and support I feel from them, my own children and my wife and the love that I feel from and for them, there's some comfort that comes and God blesses me with those and gives me the assurance that my course life is pleasing and I can keep going, keep holding on the way. And that helps me get through those.

[Mike]

Difficult times, get into the temple and feel that you can have your own little ark. You can have your own little ark experience of being safe from the prevailing waves outside.

[Hank]

God doesn't just use one way to teach us about Jesus Christ. He is so intent. He's in Elder Kieran said, relentless pursuit of us. And he's going to try every way to maximize every opportunity to save all of his children. He involves all of our senses. Our touch, our taste, our hearing, our smell, our sight. He uses all of these things to help us experience that communion with God. When we go to the temple or even when we go to our sacrament meetings, I think we ought to be going and looking. How does the sight affect us in the sacrament service? Are we looking up and seeing that table? And how does it remind us of Jesus Christ? Some of my most sacred moments are when I'm singing sacrament hymns. And they're not usually my favorite hymn. There's a lot of other hymns, but the ones that move me in moments when I can't predict it. But, boy, it's usually those sacrament hymns that's compelling me to remember Jesus Christ. And it's where I'm really being sincere and genuine. It's a real intent where God has my heart for that moment. We go through the motions of our temple worship, or we go through the motions of our sacrament services and the covenants and ordinances. And maybe we were just doing it to go do it. You know, I'm going to check it off, that I've done it this month or I went to church this week and. But we're scrolling on Facebook or checking the scores for the football games, and we're not really investing with all of our soul in those experiences where God's trying to teach us with the sight, with the touch, the tabernacle. I can imagine it was such a tactile, touching experience. They're seeing the sacrifice being offered. They're seeing the blood. It's on the white vestments of the priests. They're smelling the sweet savor it was all around. And sometimes we may miss some of that just to be more intentional about those moments that we're really paying attention, watching and learning about Jesus Christ, letting him. What do we see in this experience that teaches me about Him? Because in the end, that's where the peace is going to come. That's where the solace, where the saving grace of God can be manifest in our life. And it's in that moment. It begins the moment you pray for it. That healing power of the Savior starts on us when we just ask for that help. But then as we go in and through ordinances and covenants, particularly temple, he saves us. And I bear witness of that. Testify that it's true. He is saving me, creating me in his image now.

[Mike]

What a day. What a day. Mike, please thank Jennifer. Since we did talk about Jacob's accident, we do want to extend our love to the Hatch family and the Davies family as well. We want to acknowledge their grief and who they are and let them know that we love them.

[Hank]

Absolutely. Thank you. They are some of our choices. Friends, we're bonds in the crucible of life that we've been dealt. There's a friendship there that we just love those two. They truly have been saints for us.

[Mike]

Yeah, you've been a saint to us today. I have learned so much. My scriptures are covered in notes and I have every desire to go to the temple. I'm pretty sure that's a great day.

[Hank]

Great days and great memories. I love it. Thank you.

[Mike]

The Lord is good to us. With that, we want to thank Dr. Mike Cottle for being with us today. It's been fantastic. We, of course, want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen, our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, and every episode we remember our founder. That's a reunion we're all looking forward to. Steve Sorensen, we hope you'll join us next week. The answer to the Tower of Babel is the House of Israel. We're going to look at the beginnings there on Follow Him. Thank you for joining us on today's episode. Do you or someone you know speak Spanish, Portuguese or French? You can now watch and listen to our podcast in those languages. Links are in the description below. Today's show notes and transcript are on our website, followhim.co that's followhim. Of course, none of this could happen without our incredible production crew. David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stoughton, Crystal Roberts, Ariel Cuadra, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kabwica, Sydney Smith, and Annabelle Sorenson. Whatever questions or problems you have, the.

[Hank]

Answer is always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.

[Mike]

Turn to him. Follow him.